On Sat, 21 Jan 2012 21:45:34 -0600, Steve Barker wrote:

We've set ours off about 8 times in several years. Usually because of
failure to note embedded metal, wet wood, aluminized vapor backer, etc.
Only once when a man was pushing it - he thought he had completed a cut
he was pushing along the fence (probably way too close and should have
been using a push stick) and set it off with no visible cut, looked
more like a splinter.

Yes, it is expensive to set it off. Cartridge and blade.


damn. $800 in false trips. More than my saw cost new. Dandy product
you got there. what a joke!

What's got your knickers in a twist, Steve? You seem to have directed
all the hate most of us reserve for Congress at the SawStop makers.

Those were not false trips - they were operator error. And we used a
SawStop saw in the classroom at Woodcraft when I worked there. At least
one student stuck a finger in the blade - it fired and she needed a band
aid.

Yes, the patent owner's business ethics leave something to be desired in
my opinion, but there's lots worse out there.

It's an election year. There must be a better target for your rants :-).

--
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw

On Sun, 22 Jan 2012 15:12:11 +0000, Doug Miller wrote:

I likewise consider myself in the "extremely careful" camp, but made one
mistake a few years ago, resulting in a trip to the ER for what the doc
called a "remarkably superficial" injury. Even so, it was quite painful,
I'm now missing a *very* small portion of the tip of my left thumb, and
there's a little spot that's permanently numb.

Sounds like my left thumb :-). Not only that, I split a fingernail down
the middle on my right hand about a year later. Lucky both times.

Forty years with no table saw injuries, then two in a year. None since,
but I've developed a better understanding of my fallibility :-).

--
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw

Larry Blanchard wrote:


Forty years with no table saw injuries, then two in a year. None
since, but I've developed a better understanding of my fallibility
:-).

As we all do Larry. I remember a time (probably 20 years ago...) when I was
cutting through a battery cable terminal on my farm tractor. Brand new
blade in my hacksaw, and theoretically, being quite careful. But it was
cold outside, and I was getting firewood up, and time was a factor. To make
a long story short, something slipped and I ended up with a full stroke of
that hacksaw, right into my left index finger. Right to the bone. Young
and stupid as I was, I wrapped it in a napkin and duck tape, and went back
to work. Sure enough - it healed up just fine enough over a couple of
weeks, but the cold still really effects that finger to this day.

So - maybe even proper medical treatment would have not resulted in any
different reaction to the cold today, but I can tell you this - the memory
of that day is pretty real to me today, and it does impose itself on me
every time I use a tool such as my table saw, that is capable of like
injuries. It sure as hell imposes itself on me every time I grab a
hacksaw...

--

-Mike-

On Sun, 22 Jan 2012 18:24:06 +0000 (UTC), Larry Blanchard
wrote:

On Sat, 21 Jan 2012 21:45:34 -0600, Steve Barker wrote:

We've set ours off about 8 times in several years. Usually because of
failure to note embedded metal, wet wood, aluminized vapor backer, etc.
Only once when a man was pushing it - he thought he had completed a cut
he was pushing along the fence (probably way too close and should have
been using a push stick) and set it off with no visible cut, looked
more like a splinter.

Yes, it is expensive to set it off. Cartridge and blade.


damn. $800 in false trips. More than my saw cost new. Dandy product
you got there. what a joke!

What's got your knickers in a twist, Steve? You seem to have directed
all the hate most of us reserve for Congress at the SawStop makers.

You say that like it's a bad thing, LB.


Those were not false trips - they were operator error. And we used a
SawStop saw in the classroom at Woodcraft when I worked there. At least
one student stuck a finger in the blade - it fired and she needed a band
aid.

And a new diaper?


Yes, the patent owner's business ethics leave something to be desired in
my opinion, but there's lots worse out there.

It's an election year. There must be a better target for your rants :-).

Hard to miss, eh?

--
I have the consolation of having added nothing to my private fortune during
my public service, and of retiring with hands clean as they are empty.
-- Thomas Jefferson, letter to Count Diodati, 1807

On Sun, 22 Jan 2012 08:26:04 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
Absolutely! We all try to be careful and those of us with half a brain
realize that trying to be careful all of the time just does not fly. We
are human and accidents happen.

How much does it cost to reattach a finger or hand?

There's one thing that all the SawStop naysayers don't consider. That
is the fact that there's no incidents of the SawStop failing to
function as it's designed to. (At least, I haven't heard of any) If
there were, the news of it would have reverberated throughout the
woodworking industry as well as all the general news sources.

Apparently, the SawStop works as it's designed to otherwise we'd all
have heard about it. 'Nuff Said!

On 1/22/2012 8:23 AM, Leon wrote:
On 1/22/2012 12:05 AM, Steve Barker wrote:
On 1/21/2012 11:27 PM, Leon wrote:
On 1/21/2012 9:45 PM, Steve Barker wrote:
On 1/21/2012 4:59 PM, DanG wrote:
On 1/20/2012 8:09 PM, Digger wrote:
On 1/20/2012 5:54 PM, Steve Barker wrote:
Just once i'd like to see a demonstration of that damn hot dog being
run
into that $aw $top blade at the same rate that your finger or hand
might
if you were to slip. I'll bet it'll still cause significant damage.
Those things are a joke.

Saw the hot dog live demo once. It worked as advertised and barely
broke
the skin of the dog. Amazing demo and when that blade stopped, even
though I was expecting some noise it still scared the crap right out
of me.



You ought be in the same room or near the saw when it happens when you
WEREN'T expecting it.

We've set ours off about 8 times in several years. Usually because of
failure to note embedded metal, wet wood, aluminized vapor backer,
etc.
Only once when a man was pushing it - he thought he had completed a
cut
he was pushing along the fence (probably way too close and should have
been using a push stick) and set it off with no visible cut, looked
more
like a splinter.

Yes, it is expensive to set it off. Cartridge and blade.


damn. $800 in false trips. More than my saw cost new. Dandy product you
got there. what a joke!


Don't knock what you can not afford.

i could afford 10 of them tomorrow and pay cash. You don't seem to
understand. I DON"T WANT ONE!! And i don't want them forced on other
people who know how to use a saw properly.


Then shut the F___up about it.

yes sir!

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

On 1/22/2012 9:02 AM, Doug Miller wrote:
Steve wrote in
:

i could afford 10 of them tomorrow and pay cash. You don't seem to
understand. I DON"T WANT ONE!! And i don't want them forced on other
people who know how to use a saw properly.

So if you don't want one, DON'T BUY ONE.

The fact that other people DO want them is not changed by either your arrogant refusal to even
consider the possibility that you might hurt yourself some day, or your consequent inability to
understand why it might be a useful thing to have.

i just want it to remain a CHOICE.

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

On 1/22/2012 12:24 PM, Larry Blanchard wrote:
On Sat, 21 Jan 2012 21:45:34 -0600, Steve Barker wrote:

We've set ours off about 8 times in several years. Usually because of
failure to note embedded metal, wet wood, aluminized vapor backer, etc.
Only once when a man was pushing it - he thought he had completed a cut
he was pushing along the fence (probably way too close and should have
been using a push stick) and set it off with no visible cut, looked
more like a splinter.

Yes, it is expensive to set it off. Cartridge and blade.


damn. $800 in false trips. More than my saw cost new. Dandy product
you got there. what a joke!

What's got your knickers in a twist, Steve? You seem to have directed
all the hate most of us reserve for Congress at the SawStop makers.

Those were not false trips - they were operator error. And we used a
SawStop saw in the classroom at Woodcraft when I worked there. At least
one student stuck a finger in the blade - it fired and she needed a band
aid.

Yes, the patent owner's business ethics leave something to be desired in
my opinion, but there's lots worse out there.

It's an election year. There must be a better target for your rants :-).



You're right, i probably did lash out in the wrong place. It just irks
me to see so many seemingly smart people condoning government control
and regulation. I'm sorry if i personally offended any persons in this
group. I do get a lot out of reading the messages here.

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

On Sun, 22 Jan 2012 18:48:43 -0600, Steve Barker
wrote:

On 1/22/2012 9:02 AM, Doug Miller wrote:
Steve wrote in
:

i could afford 10 of them tomorrow and pay cash. You don't seem to
understand. I DON"T WANT ONE!! And i don't want them forced on other
people who know how to use a saw properly.

So if you don't want one, DON'T BUY ONE.

The fact that other people DO want them is not changed by either your arrogant refusal to even
consider the possibility that you might hurt yourself some day, or your consequent inability to
understand why it might be a useful thing to have.

i just want it to remain a CHOICE.
As long as they can be disabled, they WILL be disabled - and
accidents will still happen.
Forcing every saw to have one will NOT necessarily save many fingers
or hands.

Look how many saws are run without guards or splitters. Or by guys not
wearing goggles.

Are they a good thing? Quite likely. Particularly in a high speed
production environment and/or where inexperienced operators are
involved. But having saw operators DEPEND on that kind of technology
to keep them safe detatches them from the ramifications of careless
operation - and if they get careless - and the device fails or is
defeated for some (possibly very legitimate) reason, they are
finished.

Much better, in my opinion, to train them to be extremely carefull and
to use the already mandated and supplied safety devices. - and to
SUPPLY the devices. (like push sticks, finger boards, splitters and
guards)

Much better, in my opinion, to train them to be extremely careful and
to use the already mandated and supplied safety devices. - and to
SUPPLY the devices. (like push sticks, finger boards, splitters and
guards)

Good points.

If I was a high school shop teacher (and I am) and I had a saw stop, I would
tell the guys that they did not work as good as it shows on you-tube and
even worse, that they sometimes did not work at all. That way, they could
not depend on the saw stopping to keep them safe, and they would have to
work on developing safe work habits.

-- Jim in NC

On 1/22/2012 7:53 PM, Steve Barker wrote:
On 1/22/2012 12:24 PM, Larry Blanchard wrote:

It's an election year. There must be a better target for your rants :-).

You're right, i probably did lash out in the wrong place. It just irks
me to see so many seemingly smart people condoning government control
and regulation. I'm sorry if i personally offended any persons in this
group. I do get a lot out of reading the messages here.

On a woodworking group it's hard to imagine a political election being a
better target than forced saw stop ownership.

I think in addition to forced ownership of saw stop crap, the hand
wringers should be forced to buy/use power feeders. Much cheaper than
buying a new hand, right?

Of course if you fall into the power feeder... Well, maybe a law to
force these guys to plunk the plank into the feeder with the power off,
go in another room with the power switch, like a dentist doing xrays....

Yeah, that's the ticket.

Jack
Got Change: Supply and Demand ====== Command and Control!

Jack wrote:


On a woodworking group it's hard to imagine a political election
being a better target than forced saw stop ownership.

I think in addition to forced ownership of saw stop crap, the hand
wringers should be forced to buy/use power feeders. Much cheaper than
buying a new hand, right?


Oh geezus - this is getting just plain stupid! Nobody - repeat - nobody is
forcing saw stop ownership. If you don't like the saw, the owner of the
company, or the color of the saw - don't buy the damned thing. Nothing is
forcing you to own it. Good Lord - this is just stupid!

--

-Mike-

On 1/22/2012 8:26 PM, Morgans wrote:
Much better, in my opinion, to train them to be extremely careful and
to use the already mandated and supplied safety devices. - and to
SUPPLY the devices. (like push sticks, finger boards, splitters and
guards)

Good points.

If I was a high school shop teacher (and I am) and I had a saw stop, I
would tell the guys that they did not work as good as it shows on
you-tube and even worse, that they sometimes did not work at all. That
way, they could not depend on the saw stopping to keep them safe, and
they would have to work on developing safe work habits.

-- Jim in NC


And as all kids do they would look to prove you wrong and think you were
a liar or incompetent since you could not prove that they did not work.

Tell the truth, teach them the correct way to use a TS because they may
not always have the luxury of working on a TS with this technology.

Leon wrote:
On 1/22/2012 8:26 PM, Morgans wrote:
Much better, in my opinion, to train them to be extremely careful and
to use the already mandated and supplied safety devices. - and to
SUPPLY the devices. (like push sticks, finger boards, splitters and
guards)

Good points.

If I was a high school shop teacher (and I am) and I had a saw stop,
I would tell the guys that they did not work as good as it shows on
you-tube and even worse, that they sometimes did not work at all.
That way, they could not depend on the saw stopping to keep them
safe, and they would have to work on developing safe work habits.

-- Jim in NC


And as all kids do they would look to prove you wrong and think you
were a liar or incompetent since you could not prove that they did
not work.
Tell the truth, teach them the correct way to use a TS because they
may not always have the luxury of working on a TS with this
technology.

I think that's what Jim is trying to do Leon. I think he's trying to
discourage the kids from blind trust in anything - technology, "safety
devices", etc. and to develop practical safe habits.

--

-Mike-

On Sun, 22 Jan 2012 23:14:01 -0500, "Mike Marlow"
wrote:

Jack wrote:


On a woodworking group it's hard to imagine a political election
being a better target than forced saw stop ownership.

I think in addition to forced ownership of saw stop crap, the hand
wringers should be forced to buy/use power feeders. Much cheaper than
buying a new hand, right?


Oh geezus - this is getting just plain stupid! Nobody - repeat - nobody is
forcing saw stop ownership. If you don't like the saw, the owner of the
company, or the color of the saw - don't buy the damned thing. Nothing is
forcing you to own it. Good Lord - this is just stupid!

....not that they aren't trying, mind you.

zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Sun, 22 Jan 2012 23:14:01 -0500, "Mike Marlow"
wrote:

Jack wrote:


On a woodworking group it's hard to imagine a political election
being a better target than forced saw stop ownership.

I think in addition to forced ownership of saw stop crap, the hand
wringers should be forced to buy/use power feeders. Much cheaper
than buying a new hand, right?


Oh geezus - this is getting just plain stupid! Nobody - repeat -
nobody is forcing saw stop ownership. If you don't like the saw,
the owner of the company, or the color of the saw - don't buy the
damned thing. Nothing is forcing you to own it. Good Lord - this
is just stupid!

...not that they aren't trying, mind you.

Really - and just how would they even attempt to accomplish such a feat?
Gast is an ass but he is not stupid.

--

-Mike-

On 1/22/2012 9:18 PM, wrote:

Look how many saws are run without guards or splitters. Or by guys not
wearing goggles.

You mean like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oj4eyGEJe-s

On 1/22/2012 9:33 PM, Jack wrote:
On 1/22/2012 7:53 PM, Steve Barker wrote:
On 1/22/2012 12:24 PM, Larry Blanchard wrote:

It's an election year. There must be a better target for your rants :-).

You're right, i probably did lash out in the wrong place. It just irks
me to see so many seemingly smart people condoning government control
and regulation. I'm sorry if i personally offended any persons in this
group. I do get a lot out of reading the messages here.

On a woodworking group it's hard to imagine a political election being a
better target than forced saw stop ownership.

I think in addition to forced ownership of saw stop crap, the hand
wringers should be forced to buy/use power feeders. Much cheaper than
buying a new hand, right?

Of course if you fall into the power feeder... Well, maybe a law to
force these guys to plunk the plank into the feeder with the power off,
go in another room with the power switch, like a dentist doing xrays....

Yeah, that's the ticket.

Jack
Got Change: Supply and Demand ====== Command and Control!


The fallacy of your analogy here is that if it is mandated by the
government or actually willingly accepted by all manufacturers NO ONE is
going to be forced to buy a saw with this technology. The choice to buy
a saw with this technology or not will still be strictly up to you.
I can assure you my wife will not be buying one. The simple truth is
that that if you can not buy a saw with the safety device added you can
elect to not buy a saw at all.

Even more aggravating to me is that right now you cannot buy a saw with
out the common blade guard, a device that is way less effective that the
saw stop technology and yet we buy these saws any way but only because
we want to. No one is forcing us to buy these saws with the less than
desirable guards, which are mandated by some authority.

On 1/22/2012 10:18 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
Leon wrote:
On 1/22/2012 8:26 PM, Morgans wrote:
Much better, in my opinion, to train them to be extremely careful and
to use the already mandated and supplied safety devices. - and to
SUPPLY the devices. (like push sticks, finger boards, splitters and
guards)

Good points.

If I was a high school shop teacher (and I am) and I had a saw stop,
I would tell the guys that they did not work as good as it shows on
you-tube and even worse, that they sometimes did not work at all.
That way, they could not depend on the saw stopping to keep them
safe, and they would have to work on developing safe work habits.

-- Jim in NC


And as all kids do they would look to prove you wrong and think you
were a liar or incompetent since you could not prove that they did
not work.
Tell the truth, teach them the correct way to use a TS because they
may not always have the luxury of working on a TS with this
technology.

I think that's what Jim is trying to do Leon. I think he's trying to
discourage the kids from blind trust in anything - technology, "safety
devices", etc. and to develop practical safe habits.




Yes but adding a non truth go bolster the idea.

He said,
I would tell the guys that they did not work as good as it shows on
you-tube and even worse, that they sometimes did not work at all.

If he could not prove that, and right now he cannot, the kids are going
to not trust what he tell them. Kids are going to verify.

On 1/22/2012 10:21 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Sun, 22 Jan 2012 23:14:01 -0500, "Mike Marlow"
wrote:

Jack wrote:


On a woodworking group it's hard to imagine a political election
being a better target than forced saw stop ownership.

I think in addition to forced ownership of saw stop crap, the hand
wringers should be forced to buy/use power feeders. Much cheaper than
buying a new hand, right?


Oh geezus - this is getting just plain stupid! Nobody - repeat - nobody is
forcing saw stop ownership. If you don't like the saw, the owner of the
company, or the color of the saw - don't buy the damned thing. Nothing is
forcing you to own it. Good Lord - this is just stupid!

...not that they aren't trying, mind you.

Can a car company force you to buy a car? No, you can choose to not buy
a car. Can a travel agency force you to book a trip? No, you can
choose to not take a trip.

Neither can a saw company. You do not have to buy a saw. If you want
to buy a saw that will be of your own free choice to do so, but you will
have to buy one with an over head blade guard if you do.

Later on if you choose to buy a TS you might also have to get one with
the Saw Stop technology o you can choose to not buy a saw. Noting is
being forced on any one.

On Sun, 22 Jan 2012 21:26:49 -0500, "Morgans"
wrote:

Much better, in my opinion, to train them to be extremely careful and
to use the already mandated and supplied safety devices. - and to
SUPPLY the devices. (like push sticks, finger boards, splitters and
guards)

Good points.

If I was a high school shop teacher (and I am) and I had a saw stop, I would
tell the guys that they did not work as good as it shows on you-tube and
even worse, that they sometimes did not work at all. That way, they could
not depend on the saw stopping to keep them safe, and they would have to
work on developing safe work habits.

-- Jim in NC
I used to teach auto shop.
Taught the kids not to depend on safety stops on jacks and ALWAYS use
proper jack stands. - among other things.

On 1/22/2012 10:27 PM, Jack wrote:
On 1/22/2012 9:18 PM, wrote:

Look how many saws are run without guards or splitters. Or by guys not
wearing goggles.

You mean like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oj4eyGEJe-s



now THAT is pretty cool. Not that i condone using shakes as a roofing,
but the sawing process is fascinating!

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

Subject

First posted by a progeny of the Dumb **** family, Donald and Dory.

Lew

On 1/22/2012 7:26 PM, Morgans wrote:
Much better, in my opinion, to train them to be extremely careful and
to use the already mandated and supplied safety devices. - and to
SUPPLY the devices. (like push sticks, finger boards, splitters and
guards)

Good points.

If I was a high school shop teacher (and I am) and I had a saw stop, I
would tell the guys that they did not work as good as it shows on
you-tube and even worse, that they sometimes did not work at all. That
way, they could not depend on the saw stopping to keep them safe, and
they would have to work on developing safe work habits.

Yeah, and your students would promptly do some internet research, find
out were lying, and call you out on your BS. Your credibility would be
shot, and then how effective a teacher would you be?

On 1/23/2012 1:30 AM, Just Wondering wrote:
On 1/22/2012 7:26 PM, Morgans wrote:
Much better, in my opinion, to train them to be extremely careful and
to use the already mandated and supplied safety devices. - and to
SUPPLY the devices. (like push sticks, finger boards, splitters and
guards)

Good points.

If I was a high school shop teacher (and I am) and I had a saw stop, I
would tell the guys that they did not work as good as it shows on
you-tube and even worse, that they sometimes did not work at all. That
way, they could not depend on the saw stopping to keep them safe, and
they would have to work on developing safe work habits.

Yeah, and your students would promptly do some internet research, find
out were lying, and call you out on your BS. Your credibility would be
shot, and then how effective a teacher would you be?

i can guarantee if one of those was in a high school, there'd be a
hotdog test every time the cartridge was replaced.

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

On Sun, 22 Jan 2012 22:14:10 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 1/22/2012 8:26 PM, Morgans wrote:
Much better, in my opinion, to train them to be extremely careful and
to use the already mandated and supplied safety devices. - and to
SUPPLY the devices. (like push sticks, finger boards, splitters and
guards)

Good points.

If I was a high school shop teacher (and I am) and I had a saw stop, I
would tell the guys that they did not work as good as it shows on
you-tube and even worse, that they sometimes did not work at all. That
way, they could not depend on the saw stopping to keep them safe, and
they would have to work on developing safe work habits.

-- Jim in NC


And as all kids do they would look to prove you wrong and think you were
a liar or incompetent since you could not prove that they did not work.

Kids'll do that every day, anyway, Leon. It's our idiotic human nature
to do so.


Tell the truth, teach them the correct way to use a TS because they may
not always have the luxury of working on a TS with this technology.

BINGO! Odds are 99:1 (or higher) right now that their dads won't have
a SS at home.

--
I have the consolation of having added nothing to my private fortune during
my public service, and of retiring with hands clean as they are empty.
-- Thomas Jefferson, letter to Count Diodati, 1807

Mike Marlow wrote:
Jack wrote:


On a woodworking group it's hard to imagine a political election
being a better target than forced saw stop ownership.

I think in addition to forced ownership of saw stop crap, the hand
wringers should be forced to buy/use power feeders. Much cheaper
than buying a new hand, right?


Oh geezus - this is getting just plain stupid! Nobody - repeat -
nobody is forcing saw stop ownership. If you don't like the saw, the
owner of the company, or the color of the saw - don't buy the damned
thing. Nothing is forcing you to own it. Good Lord - this is just
stupid!

Yet.

Mike Marlow wrote:

...not that they aren't trying, mind you.

Really - and just how would they even attempt to accomplish such a
feat? Gast is an ass but he is not stupid.

Have you been living in a cave? The SawStop folks have persuaded the
Consumer Product Safety Commission to propose a federal regulation mandating
SawStop (or equivalent) on table saws.

It's right there in the Federal Register. You really should keep up.

HeyBub wrote:
Mike Marlow wrote:

...not that they aren't trying, mind you.

Really - and just how would they even attempt to accomplish such a
feat? Gast is an ass but he is not stupid.

Have you been living in a cave? The SawStop folks have persuaded the
Consumer Product Safety Commission to propose a federal regulation
mandating SawStop (or equivalent) on table saws.

It's right there in the Federal Register. You really should keep up.

I have - have you? There is nothing in that proposal that forces you or I
to go out and buy a SawStop and melt down our existing table saws.

--

-Mike-

On Mon, 23 Jan 2012 06:20:51 -0600, "HeyBub"
Have you been living in a cave? The SawStop folks have persuaded the
Consumer Product Safety Commission to propose a federal regulation mandating
SawStop (or equivalent) on table saws.

What if anything, does that proposed federal regulation say about
previously owned table saws? Are they grandfathered in as being
acceptable? Do we all need to buy our preferred choice of table saw
before that proposed regulation comes into effect?

On 1/23/2012 10:49 AM, Dave wrote:
On Mon, 23 Jan 2012 06:20:51 -0600,
Have you been living in a cave? The SawStop folks have persuaded the
Consumer Product Safety Commission to propose a federal regulation mandating
SawStop (or equivalent) on table saws.

What if anything, does that proposed federal regulation say about
previously owned table saws? Are they grandfathered in as being
acceptable? Do we all need to buy our preferred choice of table saw
before that proposed regulation comes into effect?


I know riving knifes are now required to be **UL Compliant**.
I do not know the significance of this compliancy (perhaps someone can
address this), but it's not hard for me to imagine what the next
requirement of UL Coompliancy could be for table saws.

Dave wrote:
On Mon, 23 Jan 2012 06:20:51 -0600, "HeyBub"
Have you been living in a cave? The SawStop folks have persuaded the
Consumer Product Safety Commission to propose a federal regulation
mandating SawStop (or equivalent) on table saws.

What if anything, does that proposed federal regulation say about
previously owned table saws? Are they grandfathered in as being
acceptable? Do we all need to buy our preferred choice of table saw
before that proposed regulation comes into effect?

Kudos, Dave.

--

-Mike-

Bill wrote:
On 1/23/2012 10:49 AM, Dave wrote:
On Mon, 23 Jan 2012 06:20:51 -0600,
Have you been living in a cave? The SawStop folks have persuaded the
Consumer Product Safety Commission to propose a federal regulation
mandating SawStop (or equivalent) on table saws.

What if anything, does that proposed federal regulation say about
previously owned table saws? Are they grandfathered in as being
acceptable? Do we all need to buy our preferred choice of table saw
before that proposed regulation comes into effect?


I know riving knifes are now required to be **UL Compliant**.
I do not know the significance of this compliancy (perhaps someone can
address this), but it's not hard for me to imagine what the next
requirement of UL Coompliancy could be for table saws.

UL compliance only pertains to newly purchased items. It has nothing to do
with existing products. As for new compliancy requirments - that's for new
stuff. When was the last time the UL Police showed up at your house to
inspect and demand an update to your 20 year old toaster or steam iron?

--

-Mike-

On 1/23/2012 11:41 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
Bill wrote:
On 1/23/2012 10:49 AM, Dave wrote:
On Mon, 23 Jan 2012 06:20:51 -0600,
Have you been living in a cave? The SawStop folks have persuaded the
Consumer Product Safety Commission to propose a federal regulation
mandating SawStop (or equivalent) on table saws.

What if anything, does that proposed federal regulation say about
previously owned table saws? Are they grandfathered in as being
acceptable? Do we all need to buy our preferred choice of table saw
before that proposed regulation comes into effect?


I know riving knifes are now required to be **UL Compliant**.
I do not know the significance of this compliancy (perhaps someone can
address this), but it's not hard for me to imagine what the next
requirement of UL Coompliancy could be for table saws.

Are you saying that Sears, and others who sell $100 TSs, are only
permitted to sell table saws with riving knifes? (I don't know the
answer to this, as I mentioned above).



UL compliance only pertains to newly purchased items. It has nothing to do
with existing products. As for new compliancy requirments - that's for new
stuff. When was the last time the UL Police showed up at your house to
inspect and demand an update to your 20 year old toaster or steam iron?

On 1/23/2012 11:54 AM, Bill wrote:
On 1/23/2012 11:41 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
Bill wrote:
On 1/23/2012 10:49 AM, Dave wrote:
On Mon, 23 Jan 2012 06:20:51 -0600,
Have you been living in a cave? The SawStop folks have persuaded the
Consumer Product Safety Commission to propose a federal regulation
mandating SawStop (or equivalent) on table saws.

What if anything, does that proposed federal regulation say about
previously owned table saws? Are they grandfathered in as being
acceptable? Do we all need to buy our preferred choice of table saw
before that proposed regulation comes into effect?


I know riving knifes are now required to be **UL Compliant**.
I do not know the significance of this compliancy (perhaps someone can
address this), but it's not hard for me to imagine what the next
requirement of UL Coompliancy could be for table saws.

Are you saying that Sears, and others who sell $100 TSs, are only
permitted to sell table saws with riving knifes? (I don't know the
answer to this, as I mentioned above).

Just checked, the TS Sears is selling for $134.99 has riving knifes, and
many other features too--too numerous to mention! ; )





UL compliance only pertains to newly purchased items. It has nothing
to do
with existing products. As for new compliancy requirments - that's for
new
stuff. When was the last time the UL Police showed up at your house to
inspect and demand an update to your 20 year old toaster or steam iron?

Bill wrote:
On 1/23/2012 11:41 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
Bill wrote:
On 1/23/2012 10:49 AM, Dave wrote:
On Mon, 23 Jan 2012 06:20:51 -0600,

Have you been living in a cave? The SawStop folks have persuaded
the Consumer Product Safety Commission to propose a federal
regulation mandating SawStop (or equivalent) on table saws.

What if anything, does that proposed federal regulation say about
previously owned table saws? Are they grandfathered in as being
acceptable? Do we all need to buy our preferred choice of table saw
before that proposed regulation comes into effect?


I know riving knifes are now required to be **UL Compliant**.
I do not know the significance of this compliancy (perhaps someone
can address this), but it's not hard for me to imagine what the next
requirement of UL Coompliancy could be for table saws.

Are you saying that Sears, and others who sell $100 TSs, are only
permitted to sell table saws with riving knifes? (I don't know the
answer to this, as I mentioned above).


$100 table saws? And you find those exactly where on the Sears web site?
Just what are you really asking?




UL compliance only pertains to newly purchased items. It has
nothing to do with existing products. As for new compliancy
requirments - that's for new stuff. When was the last time the UL
Police showed up at your house to inspect and demand an update to
your 20 year old toaster or steam iron?

On 1/23/2012 5:48 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
HeyBub wrote:
Mike Marlow wrote:

...not that they aren't trying, mind you.

Really - and just how would they even attempt to accomplish such a
feat? Gast is an ass but he is not stupid.

Have you been living in a cave? The SawStop folks have persuaded the
Consumer Product Safety Commission to propose a federal regulation
mandating SawStop (or equivalent) on table saws.

It's right there in the Federal Register. You really should keep up.

I have - have you? There is nothing in that proposal that forces you or I
to go out and buy a SawStop and melt down our existing table saws.

The problem is, if the regulation was put into effect, every TS
manufacturer would have to buy technology from the SawStop company. A
TS that retails for $600 today would cost $1200 tomorrow. Sure, you
could disable the SS, but if you wanted to buy a TS at all, you'd have
to pay twice as much for the saw as as you would in a free market.

Just Wondering wrote:
On 1/23/2012 5:48 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
HeyBub wrote:
Mike Marlow wrote:

...not that they aren't trying, mind you.

Really - and just how would they even attempt to accomplish such a
feat? Gast is an ass but he is not stupid.

Have you been living in a cave? The SawStop folks have persuaded the
Consumer Product Safety Commission to propose a federal regulation
mandating SawStop (or equivalent) on table saws.

It's right there in the Federal Register. You really should keep up.

I have - have you? There is nothing in that proposal that forces
you or I to go out and buy a SawStop and melt down our existing
table saws.
The problem is, if the regulation was put into effect, every TS
manufacturer would have to buy technology from the SawStop company. A
TS that retails for $600 today would cost $1200 tomorrow. Sure, you
could disable the SS, but if you wanted to buy a TS at all, you'd have
to pay twice as much for the saw as as you would in a free market.

There is nothing new in that understanding - if... the proposal goes through
as currently written. There's a lot of room for speculation there. That
said - what you post above, though fair in the realm of speculation, does
nothing to support the claim that everyone will be forced to buy a SawStop.

--

-Mike-

On Mon, 23 Jan 2012 14:06:13 -0500, "Mike Marlow"
wrote:

Just Wondering wrote:
On 1/23/2012 5:48 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
HeyBub wrote:
Mike Marlow wrote:

...not that they aren't trying, mind you.

Really - and just how would they even attempt to accomplish such a
feat? Gast is an ass but he is not stupid.

Have you been living in a cave? The SawStop folks have persuaded the
Consumer Product Safety Commission to propose a federal regulation
mandating SawStop (or equivalent) on table saws.

It's right there in the Federal Register. You really should keep up.

I have - have you? There is nothing in that proposal that forces
you or I to go out and buy a SawStop and melt down our existing
table saws.
The problem is, if the regulation was put into effect, every TS
manufacturer would have to buy technology from the SawStop company. A
TS that retails for $600 today would cost $1200 tomorrow. Sure, you
could disable the SS, but if you wanted to buy a TS at all, you'd have
to pay twice as much for the saw as as you would in a free market.

There is nothing new in that understanding - if... the proposal goes through
as currently written. There's a lot of room for speculation there. That
said - what you post above, though fair in the realm of speculation, does
nothing to support the claim that everyone will be forced to buy a SawStop.
Let's just simplify it a bit. Anyone buying a NEW legal table saw IN
THE US would be forced to buy a SawStop.
There's always someone willing to sell non-compliant equipment off the
back of a truck, or to represent it as "used", or to bring
non-compliant equipment in from, say, Mexico. Or China.

On 1/23/2012 12:02 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:

$100 table saws? And you find those exactly where on the Sears web site?
Just what are you really asking?

I didn't know whether retailers were allowed to sell saws that are Not
UL approved. That's what I was really asking.


Also, I was surprised to see $100 TSs that had riving knifes... Here is one.

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_1...block Type=G2

I am Not shopping for one of these however!