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#82
Posted to rec.woodworking
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JUST ONCE.....
Bill wrote:
On 1/23/2012 12:02 PM, Mike Marlow wrote: $100 table saws? And you find those exactly where on the Sears web site? Just what are you really asking? I didn't know whether retailers were allowed to sell saws that are Not UL approved. That's what I was really asking. Of course not. Google could have been your friend. Also, I was surprised to see $100 TSs that had riving knifes... Here is one. Understandable - every one of us are surprised every day by things we did not know of, or were contrary to what we thought we knew. http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_1...block Type=G2 I am Not shopping for one of these however! Good for you Bill - wise decision. -- -Mike- |
#83
Posted to rec.woodworking
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JUST ONCE.....
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#84
Posted to rec.woodworking
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JUST ONCE.....
On 1/22/2012 11:34 PM, Leon wrote:
On 1/22/2012 9:33 PM, Jack wrote: On 1/22/2012 7:53 PM, Steve Barker wrote: On 1/22/2012 12:24 PM, Larry Blanchard wrote: It's an election year. There must be a better target for your rants :-). You're right, i probably did lash out in the wrong place. It just irks me to see so many seemingly smart people condoning government control and regulation. I'm sorry if i personally offended any persons in this group. I do get a lot out of reading the messages here. On a woodworking group it's hard to imagine a political election being a better target than forced saw stop ownership. I think in addition to forced ownership of saw stop crap, the hand wringers should be forced to buy/use power feeders. Much cheaper than buying a new hand, right? Of course if you fall into the power feeder... Well, maybe a law to force these guys to plunk the plank into the feeder with the power off, go in another room with the power switch, like a dentist doing xrays.... Yeah, that's the ticket. Jack Got Change: Supply and Demand ====== Command and Control! The fallacy of your analogy here is that if it is mandated by the government or actually willingly accepted by all manufacturers NO ONE is going to be forced to buy a saw with this technology. You can't seriously think anyone is saying every man woman and child, living in the US, would be forced to buy a table saw are you? The choice to buy a saw with this technology or not will still be strictly up to you. I can assure you my wife will not be buying one. The simple truth is that that if you can not buy a saw with the safety device added you can elect to not buy a saw at all. Ahhh, you are saying this... Very dumb of you. Even more aggravating to me is that right now you cannot buy a saw with out the common blade guard, a device that is way less effective that the saw stop technology and yet we buy these saws any way but only because we want to. No one is forcing us to buy these saws with the less than desirable guards, which are mandated by some authority. Thank god for that. I don't think I'd have room if me, the wife, and two kids were each forced to buy a table saw with (or without) saw stop technology. Thanks for clearing that up for me. Now that you cleared that up, do you think running a table saw/shaper/3hp router in a table with $300 lift would be safer with a power feeder? Should a power feeder be required with purchase of each of these machines? (Not by every person in the US, just those purchasing one of the tools that would be safer with a power feeder? Should I be allowed to buy a (new) table saw w/o saw stop tech IF I bought a power feeder, and vice versa, or should I be required to buy both (if I were to buy a new saw, not implying everyone on earth should be required to buy any of the above tools...) I am thinking anyone that buys a (new) Chevy Volt might also be required to buy a (new) table saw with a power feeder AND Saw Stop tech... Not sure why, but works for me. Jack Got Change: Father knows best === Government knows best! |
#85
Posted to rec.woodworking
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On 1/23/2012 2:31 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
wrote: Let's just simplify it a bit. Anyone buying a NEW legal table saw IN THE US would be forced to buy a SawStop. There's always someone willing to sell non-compliant equipment off the back of a truck, or to represent it as "used", or to bring non-compliant equipment in from, say, Mexico. Or China. ..... So worst case (which would be a bad worse case...) every new saw would have to meet the requirements of the new legislation. That by itself does not meet the FUD from the previous poster that said we would all have to buy that technology. There remains the existing saws which would not be affected by this legislation, the used market, etc. The "FUD" you speak of is only existing in a few narrow minded folks that like to argue inane points. Your simplification is correct (if this goes through without modification), however it is not the topic of this particular discussion. I think the topic of this particular discussion evolved from wanting to see someone ram their hand into a saw with SS tech to the government mandating that all new saws include SS tech. Seldom to never do newsgroup threads stay perfectly on topic of the initial discussion. BTW - you do not need to capitalize to make your point. Perhaps, but in newsgroups, the correct method of emphasizing text is capitalization of said text. Bold/underlined and so on doesn't work, so capitalization it is. Nothing at ALL wrong with how he provided emphasis. (oops!) You could have emphasized "all" via capitalization in your FUD sentence above, and it would have added clarity. Jack |
#86
Posted to rec.woodworking
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I agree with you completely.
Take the weiner and whip it at the side of blade from the side like you do with your own hand, in a split second, after seeing wood jump and a suddenly loud bang near the blade that makes want to not be there suddenly. I mean, give it a rest. How many people slowly push there finger into the front edge of the blade? Maybe some have handicapped parking out the front of their shop too?? ------------ "Steve Barker" wrote in message ... yeah i saw that one also. he eased it in slower than the hot dog. ------------- On 1/20/2012 7:41 PM, tiredofspam wrote: Well, I guess you missed the challenge where Gass stuck his own finger in. No blood... But you as a non believer won't believe. No use trying to make you believe. Not worth the effort. |
#87
Posted to rec.woodworking
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JUST ONCE.....
That's his point. It may not work as advertised. Who slowly pushes their
finger into the front of the blade? ------------ "Larry W" wrote in message ... I agree that the government should not mandate adoption of this technology, but the system does work as advertised. THere are a number of videos on Youtube and other sites where it is demonstrated at normal feed speeds, and more than a few testimonials too. -- When the game is over, the pawn and the king are returned to the same box. Larry Wasserman - Baltimore Maryland - lwasserm(a)sdf. lonestar.org |
#88
Posted to rec.woodworking
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JUST ONCE.....
On 1/22/2012 11:14 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
On a woodworking group it's hard to imagine a political election being a better target than forced saw stop ownership. I think in addition to forced ownership of saw stop crap, the hand wringers should be forced to buy/use power feeders. Much cheaper than buying a new hand, right? Oh geezus - this is getting just plain stupid! Nobody - repeat - nobody is forcing saw stop ownership. You mean I don't have to run out and buy a saw for everyone in my family... Thanks, what was I thinking... If you don't like the saw, the owner of the company, or the color of the saw - don't buy the damned thing. Nothing is forcing you to own it. Good Lord - this is just stupid! You are exactly right. Good thinking. Sure hope no one ran out and bought a new saw for each family member... Close one.... Now, do you think Tsaws with power feeders are safer than w/o a power feeder. Do you think anyone buying a (new) router table or shaper should also have to buy a power feeder, or should the gov't let them risk mangleation at the expense of the rest of us paying for their socialized medicine to repair the inevitable damage? How much mangleation would be prevented if everyone was required to wear a NASCAR approved crash helmet when riding in a car or truck? Should anyone buying a saw be required to attend a gov't approved training program first? So many questions.... Got Change: Individual Freedom ==== Gov't Safety! |
#89
Posted to rec.woodworking
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JUST ONCE.....
Video is the owner of Saw-Stop on his website. I think the (ice) salt water
is to decrease the impedance of his skin so the detector can see his "meat" before getting past the high impedance part of your body (skin). Human skin, especially on your hands is probably less conductive than most wood. It would have to cut away the skin into the conductive part of your body before triggering. -------------- "Justin Time" wrote in message ... As I understand it, the blade works on electrical signal and not resistance. Per the website ad: "When skin contacts the blade, the signal changes because the human body is conductive." "The change to the signal activates the safety system." If I recall, a show on cable called "Time Warp" captures action with a super slo-mo camera. They did a segment about the SawStop and used a real hand. The guy dipped his hand in ice water prior to the test, which I imagined was to slow blood flow, and cut wood allowing his hand to hit the blade and it worked. I can't find any videos right now, but searches may find results. |
#90
Posted to rec.woodworking
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JUST ONCE.....
The videos stated that most of the accidents occur in seasoned professional
after years of usage. Like most accidents...it's complacency. Good to depend on your own smarts and have a mechanical device as a backup. Backup safety barriers are always good. If they aren't why does everybody have a first aid box handy? Everybody does right?... Right? ---------- "Morgans" wrote in message ... Much better, in my opinion, to train them to be extremely careful and to use the already mandated and supplied safety devices. - and to SUPPLY the devices. (like push sticks, finger boards, splitters and guards) Good points. If I was a high school shop teacher (and I am) and I had a saw stop, I would tell the guys that they did not work as good as it shows on you-tube and even worse, that they sometimes did not work at all. That way, they could not depend on the saw stopping to keep them safe, and they would have to work on developing safe work habits. -- Jim in NC |
#91
Posted to rec.woodworking
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JUST ONCE.....
Make somebody volunteer their own finger. That would stop the garbage.
---------- "Steve Barker" wrote in message news i can guarantee if one of those was in a high school, there'd be a hotdog test every time the cartridge was replaced. -- Steve Barker remove the "not" from my address to email |
#92
Posted to rec.woodworking
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JUST ONCE.....
They cover the long term costs of the four operations in the videos. Whether
exaggerated or not they are pretty high. ------- "Larry Jaques" wrote in message ... On Sun, 22 Jan 2012 08:26:04 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote: On 1/22/2012 12:11 AM, Puckdropper wrote: How much does it cost to reattach a finger or hand? Evidently, most tablesaur accidents are unrecoverable. The saw shatters the bones too badly in too many cases. Just call 'em Stubby. |
#93
Posted to rec.woodworking
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JUST ONCE.....
Davey! Davey. How ignorant of you to say that! You have no idea how legal
suits are done, do you? When they give you the money you sign papers that silence you. The game is very early yet. ---------------- "Dave" wrote in message ... On Sun, 22 Jan 2012 08:26:04 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet Absolutely! We all try to be careful and those of us with half a brain realize that trying to be careful all of the time just does not fly. We are human and accidents happen. How much does it cost to reattach a finger or hand? There's one thing that all the SawStop naysayers don't consider. That is the fact that there's no incidents of the SawStop failing to function as it's designed to. (At least, I haven't heard of any) If there were, the news of it would have reverberated throughout the woodworking industry as well as all the general news sources. Apparently, the SawStop works as it's designed to otherwise we'd all have heard about it. 'Nuff Said! |
#94
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Now the feeling is tight again?
--------- "Leon" wrote in message ... I did however loose feeling on that side of my finger and there is still a small dark spot where dirt is apparently still under the skin. About five years later I noticed that I had regained all feeling in that finger again. |
#95
Posted to rec.woodworking
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JUST ONCE.....
The Pharma Giants do the same thing with their drug trials. They get nine
failures from their double blind studies and the tenth one is the one that gets published. There is no law stating you have to disclose tests that are negative. I doubt a hotdog weiner that is flying through the air would trigger any electrical sensing apparatus. Judging by the claims made on the mfg. website videos they are lying about a lot of things. ----------- "Steve Barker" wrote in message ... On 1/21/2012 11:56 AM, William F. Adams ) wrote: If memory serves, when they tested this on Ask This Old House the hot dog was tossed at the blade. i'm sure we won't be seeing any videos of it mangling a hotdog or other such thing. The gubmint would never allow the truth to come out about such things. -- Steve Barker remove the "not" from my address to email |
#96
Posted to rec.woodworking
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JUST ONCE.....
On 1/21/2012 6:25 PM, Swingman wrote:
Yes, it is expensive to set it off. Cartridge and blade. You guys are wise. IMO, only a fool, with a single employee who's job description included operating a table saw, would not have a SawStop today. Cheap at fifty times the price ... Let's see, one guy had 7 false one's in a couple of years and one grill that nicked a fing-ee that likely happened because of carelessness brought on by lack of respect enabled by the SS. $100 for a good blade, $80 for the replacement mechanism, times 8, times 50... $72,000. I think it would be close to "not cheap" at fifty times the price, at least I know no one that would own or use a tsaw with those sort of numbers mandated. Also, a power feeder for the hand ringers would keep them safe at least on rip cuts, and it can be adapted to old saws, shapers, router tables and all sorts of dangerous equipment. Personally, I think old folks, like me, should be banned from the dangerous environment of a wood shop. I think it's starting to get a bit dangerous when I enter my shop. I guess I hafta look at it like mountain climbers look at mountains... Don't need no steenking saw stops... Jack |
#97
Posted to rec.woodworking
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JUST ONCE.....
On 1/23/2012 4:02 PM, Jack wrote:
On 1/22/2012 11:34 PM, Leon wrote: On 1/22/2012 9:33 PM, Jack wrote: On 1/22/2012 7:53 PM, Steve Barker wrote: On 1/22/2012 12:24 PM, Larry Blanchard wrote: It's an election year. There must be a better target for your rants :-). You're right, i probably did lash out in the wrong place. It just irks me to see so many seemingly smart people condoning government control and regulation. I'm sorry if i personally offended any persons in this group. I do get a lot out of reading the messages here. On a woodworking group it's hard to imagine a political election being a better target than forced saw stop ownership. I think in addition to forced ownership of saw stop crap, the hand wringers should be forced to buy/use power feeders. Much cheaper than buying a new hand, right? Of course if you fall into the power feeder... Well, maybe a law to force these guys to plunk the plank into the feeder with the power off, go in another room with the power switch, like a dentist doing xrays.... Yeah, that's the ticket. Jack Got Change: Supply and Demand ====== Command and Control! The fallacy of your analogy here is that if it is mandated by the government or actually willingly accepted by all manufacturers NO ONE is going to be forced to buy a saw with this technology. You can't seriously think anyone is saying every man woman and child, living in the US, would be forced to buy a table saw are you? I don't think every one is thinking that but there are those that probably do. In this day and age you never know what people are thinking. The choice to buy a saw with this technology or not will still be strictly up to you. I can assure you my wife will not be buying one. The simple truth is that that if you can not buy a saw with the safety device added you can elect to not buy a saw at all. Ahhh, you are saying this... Very dumb of you. No I am not saying this but it has been said repeatedly. I am simply pointing out that you do not have to purchase a TS at all. Even more aggravating to me is that right now you cannot buy a saw with out the common blade guard, a device that is way less effective that the saw stop technology and yet we buy these saws any way but only because we want to. No one is forcing us to buy these saws with the less than desirable guards, which are mandated by some authority. Thank god for that. I don't think I'd have room if me, the wife, and two kids were each forced to buy a table saw with (or without) saw stop technology. Thanks for clearing that up for me. Now that you cleared that up, do you think running a table saw/shaper/3hp router in a table with $300 lift would be safer with a power feeder? Should a power feeder be required with purchase of each of these machines? (Not by every person in the US, just those purchasing one of the tools that would be safer with a power feeder? It might be safer but I don't think it should be mandatory as with the SawStop. Should I be allowed to buy a (new) table saw w/o saw stop tech IF I bought a power feeder, and vice versa, or should I be required to buy both (if I were to buy a new saw, not implying everyone on earth should be required to buy any of the above tools...) I am thinking anyone that buys a (new) Chevy Volt might also be required to buy a (new) table saw with a power feeder AND Saw Stop tech... Not sure why, but works for me. Now having said that all the moaning, groaning and voicing an opinion of why we think Gass is a SOB apparently is not working. What those that are clearly alarmed about the situation should do is voice that if this deal goes through that every one that has a TS now and "wants" to trade up gets full credit for the saw they already have as trade in. If you have a 15 year old cabinet saw and you want a new one but the manufacturer has to pay you what you paid for that saw 15 years ago as trade in. The manufacturers can't have their cake and eat it too. But seriously if the mandate goes through supply and demand will dictate pricing. We'll see then how many are in favor and how many are not. |
#98
Posted to rec.woodworking
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JUST ONCE.....
On 1/23/2012 5:03 PM, Jack wrote:
On 1/21/2012 6:25 PM, Swingman wrote: Yes, it is expensive to set it off. Cartridge and blade. You guys are wise. IMO, only a fool, with a single employee who's job description included operating a table saw, would not have a SawStop today. Cheap at fifty times the price ... Let's see, one guy had 7 false one's in a couple of years and one grill that nicked a fing-ee that likely happened because of carelessness brought on by lack of respect enabled by the SS. $100 for a good blade, $80 for the replacement mechanism, times 8, times 50... $72,000. I think it would be close to "not cheap" at fifty times the price, at least I know no one that would own or use a tsaw with those sort of numbers mandated. Also, a power feeder for the hand ringers would keep them safe at least on rip cuts, and it can be adapted to old saws, shapers, router tables and all sorts of dangerous equipment. Personally, I think old folks, like me, should be banned from the dangerous environment of a wood shop. I think it's starting to get a bit dangerous when I enter my shop. I guess I hafta look at it like mountain climbers look at mountains... Don't need no steenking saw stops... Jack Now I will have to say to trip the mechanism that many times you also will have factor in positive trips that actually saved a finger or hand. Lets say one time in 50, at Approximately $25,000~$35,000 per incident to cover emergency surgery and reconstruction and rehabilitation and perhaps a prosthetic and lost wages, TIMES 8 equals $200,000~$280,000, Yes cheap at 50 times the price. |
#99
Posted to rec.woodworking
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JUST ONCE.....
On 1/23/2012 5:03 PM, Jack wrote:
On 1/21/2012 6:25 PM, Swingman wrote: Yes, it is expensive to set it off. Cartridge and blade. You guys are wise. IMO, only a fool, with a single employee who's job description included operating a table saw, would not have a SawStop today. Cheap at fifty times the price ... Let's see, one guy had 7 false one's in a couple of years and one grill that nicked a fing-ee that likely happened because of carelessness brought on by lack of respect enabled by the SS. $100 for a good blade, $80 for the replacement mechanism, times 8, times 50... $72,000. I think it would be close to "not cheap" at fifty times the price, at least I know no one that would own or use a tsaw with those sort of numbers mandated. As an employer, I'd take your $72k for 8 incidents any day over a jury award of $1.5 million for each incident ... $12,000,000, or over 1300 times the price. - www.eWoodShop.com Last update: 4/15/2010 KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious) http://gplus.to/eWoodShop |
#100
Posted to rec.woodworking
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JUST ONCE.....
On 1/23/2012 5:49 PM, Swingman wrote:
On 1/23/2012 5:03 PM, Jack wrote: On 1/21/2012 6:25 PM, Swingman wrote: Yes, it is expensive to set it off. Cartridge and blade. You guys are wise. IMO, only a fool, with a single employee who's job description included operating a table saw, would not have a SawStop today. Cheap at fifty times the price ... Let's see, one guy had 7 false one's in a couple of years and one grill that nicked a fing-ee that likely happened because of carelessness brought on by lack of respect enabled by the SS. $100 for a good blade, $80 for the replacement mechanism, times 8, times 50... $72,000. I think it would be close to "not cheap" at fifty times the price, at least I know no one that would own or use a tsaw with those sort of numbers mandated. As an employer, I'd take your $72k for 8 incidents any day over a jury award of $1.5 million for each incident ... $12,000,000, or over 1300 times the price. Ryobi just learned that lesson. |
#101
Posted to rec.woodworking
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JUST ONCE.....
On Mon, 23 Jan 2012 17:20:31 -0500, Jack wrote:
Perhaps, but in newsgroups, the correct method of emphasizing text is capitalization of said text. Bold/underlined and so on doesn't work, so capitalization it is. Bold does work in most news readers. Just surround a word or a phrase with asterisks *like this*. -- Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw |
#102
Posted to rec.woodworking
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#103
Posted to rec.woodworking
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JUST ONCE.....
On Mon, 23 Jan 2012 17:21:46 -0500, "Josepi"
That's his point. It may not work as advertised. Who slowly pushes their finger into the front of the blade? Actually, it's entirely possible and probable. Say you're ripping an 8' sheet of wood. You don't need to visualize every inch of pushing to cut those 8'. A slow feeding of wood and cutting of your finger (until you react in pain) is entirely possible. |
#104
Posted to rec.woodworking
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JUST ONCE.....
On Mon, 23 Jan 2012 17:57:25 -0500, "Josepi"
Davey! Davey. How ignorant of you to say that! You have no idea how legal suits are done, do you? When they give you the money you sign papers that silence you. The game is very early yet. Of course I'm aware of it. How ignorant of you to dismiss human nature to talk and the eagerness of news outfits to discover and publish the truth. If the SawStop failed to fulfill its purpose, the news of it would spread throughout the woodworking industry like a wildfire ~ despite any attempt by SawStop insurance to silence such occurrences. |
#105
Posted to rec.woodworking
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JUST ONCE.....
On Mon, 23 Jan 2012 17:33:30 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
Now I will have to say to trip the mechanism that many times you also will have factor in positive trips that actually saved a finger or hand. Lets say one time in 50, at Approximately $25,000~$35,000 per incident to cover emergency surgery and reconstruction and rehabilitation and perhaps a prosthetic and lost wages, TIMES 8 equals $200,000~$280,000, Yes cheap at 50 times the price. Ultimately, there's those injuries that can't be surgically repaired which means permanent disfigurement and injury which may cause permanent loss of or change of employment. Then, there's the cost of the lawsuits and likelihood of large cash pay outs. Finally, there's all the pain and anguish such an injury will cause. Ultimately, there really isn't any set amount of money you can apply to that. Your 'cheap at 50 times the price' is just a pittance of the real total cost. |
#106
Posted to rec.woodworking
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JUST ONCE.....
"Josepi" wrote in
: I agree with you completely. Take the weiner and whip it at the side of blade from the side like you do with your own hand, in a split second, after seeing wood jump and a suddenly loud bang near the blade that makes want to not be there suddenly. I mean, give it a rest. How many people slowly push there finger into the front edge of the blade? Maybe some have handicapped parking out the front of their shop too?? Ok, now here's how we'll solve this once and for all: Get the Mythbusters to test it. I'm only half kidding. The sword swinging rig would be ideal to swing a hot dog into the blade at super human speed. They can track how fast the hot dog goes, put a high speed camera on the cartridge (if it can be done without wrecking the thing) and test if it works. Puckdropper -- Make it to fit, don't make it fit. |
#107
Posted to rec.woodworking
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JUST ONCE.....
On Tue, 24 Jan 2012 01:11:41 +0000 (UTC), Larry Blanchard
wrote: On Mon, 23 Jan 2012 17:20:31 -0500, Jack wrote: Perhaps, but in newsgroups, the correct method of emphasizing text is capitalization of said text. Bold/underlined and so on doesn't work, so capitalization it is. Bold does work in most news readers. Just surround a word or a phrase with asterisks *like this*. Bold doesn't work in one of the largest and best readers, Agent. -dashes-, _underscores_, and /slashes/ can also be used for emphasis. Multiple exclamation points and question marks show the naiveté of the user. -- I have the consolation of having added nothing to my private fortune during my public service, and of retiring with hands clean as they are empty. -- Thomas Jefferson, letter to Count Diodati, 1807 |
#108
Posted to rec.woodworking
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JUST ONCE.....
On Mon, 23 Jan 2012 20:27:37 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote: On Tue, 24 Jan 2012 01:11:41 +0000 (UTC), Larry Blanchard wrote: On Mon, 23 Jan 2012 17:20:31 -0500, Jack wrote: Perhaps, but in newsgroups, the correct method of emphasizing text is capitalization of said text. Bold/underlined and so on doesn't work, so capitalization it is. Bold does work in most news readers. Just surround a word or a phrase with asterisks *like this*. Bold doesn't work in one of the largest and best readers, Agent. -dashes-, _underscores_, and /slashes/ can also be used for emphasis. Multiple exclamation points and question marks show the naiveté of the user. from: http://www.hoax-slayer.com/do-not-use-all-capitals.html Also, a message written in all capitals is harder to read. In blocks of text rendered in all capitals, words lose their "shape" because they are all the same height. Each word becomes a uniform rectangle. Most people read and quickly recognize words by looking at their overall shape. We do not read by visualizing words one letter at a time. Capital letters are best left for their intended usage and, SPARINGLY to emphasize a particular word or phrase. |
#109
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JUST ONCE.....
On Mon, 23 Jan 2012 20:27:37 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote: Multiple exclamation points and question marks show the naiveté of the user. The real joke here is it's you saying that. ??? "Larry Jaques" ??? |
#110
Posted to rec.woodworking
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JUST ONCE.....
Jack wrote:
Perhaps, but in newsgroups, the correct method of emphasizing text is capitalization of said text. Bold/underlined and so on doesn't work, so capitalization it is. Nothing at ALL wrong with how he provided emphasis. (oops!) You could have emphasized "all" via capitalization in your FUD sentence above, and it would have added clarity. All right - I will confess... in the same way that Larry does not like the use of tripple exclamation marks (!!!), the use of caps for empasis is one of those things that just bugs me. -- -Mike- |
#111
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JUST ONCE.....
Jack wrote:
You are exactly right. Good thinking. Sure hope no one ran out and bought a new saw for each family member... Close one.... I like to do my part... Now, do you think Tsaws with power feeders are safer than w/o a power feeder. I don't know. Might be worth getting a few cases of hot dogs and running some tests to see. Do you think anyone buying a (new) router table or shaper should also have to buy a power feeder, or should the gov't let them risk mangleation at the expense of the rest of us paying for their socialized medicine to repair the inevitable damage? Ha - thought you'd catch me with that one, didn't ya? Clever, but you didn't slip one by me that time Jack. The answer is of course the government should let them risk mangleation - after all that would be a government decision, and we all know that the government knows best and does what's best for all of us... right? -- -Mike- |
#112
Posted to rec.woodworking
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JUST ONCE.....
Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in
: On 1/23/2012 5:49 PM, Swingman wrote: On 1/23/2012 5:03 PM, Jack wrote: On 1/21/2012 6:25 PM, Swingman wrote: Yes, it is expensive to set it off. Cartridge and blade. You guys are wise. IMO, only a fool, with a single employee who's job description included operating a table saw, would not have a SawStop today. Cheap at fifty times the price ... Let's see, one guy had 7 false one's in a couple of years and one grill that nicked a fing-ee that likely happened because of carelessness brought on by lack of respect enabled by the SS. $100 for a good blade, $80 for the replacement mechanism, times 8, times 50... $72,000. I think it would be close to "not cheap" at fifty times the price, at least I know no one that would own or use a tsaw with those sort of numbers mandated. As an employer, I'd take your $72k for 8 incidents any day over a jury award of $1.5 million for each incident ... $12,000,000, or over 1300 times the price. Ryobi just learned that lesson. You mean they aren't appealing that decision? That is a crime against humanity, and an undeserved plum for Gass. -- Best regards Han email address is invalid |
#113
Posted to rec.woodworking
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JUST ONCE.....
On 1/24/2012 7:48 AM, Han wrote:
Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in : On 1/23/2012 5:49 PM, Swingman wrote: On 1/23/2012 5:03 PM, Jack wrote: On 1/21/2012 6:25 PM, Swingman wrote: Yes, it is expensive to set it off. Cartridge and blade. You guys are wise. IMO, only a fool, with a single employee who's job description included operating a table saw, would not have a SawStop today. Cheap at fifty times the price ... Let's see, one guy had 7 false one's in a couple of years and one grill that nicked a fing-ee that likely happened because of carelessness brought on by lack of respect enabled by the SS. $100 for a good blade, $80 for the replacement mechanism, times 8, times 50... $72,000. I think it would be close to "not cheap" at fifty times the price, at least I know no one that would own or use a tsaw with those sort of numbers mandated. As an employer, I'd take your $72k for 8 incidents any day over a jury award of $1.5 million for each incident ... $12,000,000, or over 1300 times the price. Ryobi just learned that lesson. You mean they aren't appealing that decision? That is a crime against humanity, and an undeserved plum for Gass. Regardless of the eventual outcome, what has it cost to for defense? |
#114
Posted to rec.woodworking
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JUST ONCE.....
Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in
: On 1/24/2012 7:48 AM, Han wrote: Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in : On 1/23/2012 5:49 PM, Swingman wrote: On 1/23/2012 5:03 PM, Jack wrote: On 1/21/2012 6:25 PM, Swingman wrote: Yes, it is expensive to set it off. Cartridge and blade. You guys are wise. IMO, only a fool, with a single employee who's job description included operating a table saw, would not have a SawStop today. Cheap at fifty times the price ... Let's see, one guy had 7 false one's in a couple of years and one grill that nicked a fing-ee that likely happened because of carelessness brought on by lack of respect enabled by the SS. $100 for a good blade, $80 for the replacement mechanism, times 8, times 50... $72,000. I think it would be close to "not cheap" at fifty times the price, at least I know no one that would own or use a tsaw with those sort of numbers mandated. As an employer, I'd take your $72k for 8 incidents any day over a jury award of $1.5 million for each incident ... $12,000,000, or over 1300 times the price. Ryobi just learned that lesson. You mean they aren't appealing that decision? That is a crime against humanity, and an undeserved plum for Gass. Regardless of the eventual outcome, what has it cost to for defense? Like it or not, that is the US law system. If it had been a "frivolous" suit, you could countersue, I think. IANAL!!! Btw, I like the system in other countries, where you can be forced to pay the expenses of the winner of a suit, if the winner is the defendant. But that doesn't apply here (yet?). -- Best regards Han email address is invalid |
#115
Posted to rec.woodworking
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JUST ONCE.....
On 1/23/2012 6:33 PM, Leon wrote:
On 1/23/2012 5:03 PM, Jack wrote: On 1/21/2012 6:25 PM, Swingman wrote: Yes, it is expensive to set it off. Cartridge and blade. You guys are wise. IMO, only a fool, with a single employee who's job description included operating a table saw, would not have a SawStop today. Don't need no steenking saw stops... Jack Now I will have to say to trip the mechanism that many times you also will have factor in positive trips that actually saved a finger or hand. Lets say one time in 50, at Approximately $25,000~$35,000 per incident to cover emergency surgery and reconstruction and rehabilitation and perhaps a prosthetic and lost wages, TIMES 8 equals $200,000~$280,000, Yes cheap at 50 times the price. Well I don't have one, nor a blade guard, nor a rive, and after 50 years of doing this, never nicked one fing-ee. Nor did either of my brothers, nor did my dad. At my age, I would think owning one might be a good idea, but, I don't need no steenking gov't dick head mandating I buy one with a every new saw purchase. To be really safe, the gov't would have to mandate we stay on the couch, with a remote so we don't slip on an empty gov't approved potato chip bag on the way to the gov't controlled TV. Jack A Nation of Sheep Breeds a Government of Wolves! |
#116
Posted to rec.woodworking
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JUST ONCE.....
The accidents I have heard about tell how they didn't even know they
had done it until they saw the blood. Then came the pain. They don't react in pain. -------------- "Dave" wrote in message ... Actually, it's entirely possible and probable. Say you're ripping an 8' sheet of wood. You don't need to visualize every inch of pushing to cut those 8'. A slow feeding of wood and cutting of your finger (until you react in pain) is entirely possible. -------------- On Mon, 23 Jan 2012 17:21:46 -0500, "Josepi" That's his point. It may not work as advertised. Who slowly pushes their finger into the front of the blade? |
#117
Posted to rec.woodworking
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JUST ONCE.....
Yeah and the $100K repair bill for the amputated fingers and physio,
afterward, just comes from the public health care system and that is all paid for by the Vietnamese government , right? The whole thing i public driven after you get a public health care system. ---------- "Mike Marlow" wrote in message ... Ha - thought you'd catch me with that one, didn't ya? Clever, but you didn't slip one by me that time Jack. The answer is of course the government should let them risk mangleation - after all that would be a government decision, and we all know that the government knows best and does what's best for all of us... right? -------------- Do you think anyone buying a (new) router table or shaper should also have to buy a power feeder, or should the gov't let them risk mangleation at the expense of the rest of us paying for their socialized medicine to repair the inevitable damage? |
#118
Posted to rec.woodworking
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JUST ONCE.....
Seems to me Joseppi was right!
You are ignorant of how legal cases work. When you go to a lawyer you are muzzled or you don't get no money and your lawyer walks away from you. --------------- "Dave" wrote in message ... Of course I'm aware of it. How ignorant of you to dismiss human nature to talk and the eagerness of news outfits to discover and publish the truth. ------------ If the SawStop failed to fulfill its purpose, the news of it would spread throughout the woodworking industry like a wildfire ~ despite any attempt by SawStop insurance to silence such occurrences. ------------- On Mon, 23 Jan 2012 17:57:25 -0500, "Josepi" Davey! Davey. How ignorant of you to say that! You have no idea how legal suits are done, do you? When they give you the money you sign papers that silence you. The game is very early yet. |
#119
Posted to rec.woodworking
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JUST ONCE.....
On 1/23/2012 6:49 PM, Swingman wrote:
On 1/23/2012 5:03 PM, Jack wrote: On 1/21/2012 6:25 PM, Swingman wrote: Yes, it is expensive to set it off. Cartridge and blade. Cheap at fifty times the price ... $100 for a good blade, $80 for the replacement mechanism, times 8, times 50... $72,000. I think it would be close to "not cheap" at fifty times the price, at least I know no one that would own or use a tsaw with those sort of numbers mandated. As an employer, I'd take your $72k for 8 incidents any day over a jury award of $1.5 million for each incident ... $12,000,000, or over 1300 times the price. As an individual user with 50 years of no incidents under my belt, I'll take 3 new pickup trucks over $72,000 wasted in false trips. |
#120
Posted to rec.woodworking
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JUST ONCE.....
On 1/24/2012 9:08 AM, Jack wrote:
On 1/23/2012 6:33 PM, Leon wrote: On 1/23/2012 5:03 PM, Jack wrote: On 1/21/2012 6:25 PM, Swingman wrote: Yes, it is expensive to set it off. Cartridge and blade. You guys are wise. IMO, only a fool, with a single employee who's job description included operating a table saw, would not have a SawStop today. Don't need no steenking saw stops... Jack Now I will have to say to trip the mechanism that many times you also will have factor in positive trips that actually saved a finger or hand. Lets say one time in 50, at Approximately $25,000~$35,000 per incident to cover emergency surgery and reconstruction and rehabilitation and perhaps a prosthetic and lost wages, TIMES 8 equals $200,000~$280,000, Yes cheap at 50 times the price. Well I don't have one, nor a blade guard, nor a rive, and after 50 years of doing this, never nicked one fing-ee. Nor did either of my brothers, nor did my dad. At my age, I would think owning one might be a good idea, but, I don't need no steenking gov't dick head mandating I buy one with a every new saw purchase. Jack, you sound exactly like all the people that eventually did have an accident. Almost verbatim your words came out of their mouths. The longer you go with out having an accident the closer you are to having one. To be really safe, the gov't would have to mandate we stay on the couch, with a remote so we don't slip on an empty gov't approved potato chip bag on the way to the gov't controlled TV. To be really safe, don't cut off your nose to spite your face. |
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