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wrote:
On Mon, 23 Jan 2012 14:06:13 -0500, "Mike Marlow"
wrote:


There is nothing new in that understanding - if... the proposal goes
through as currently written. There's a lot of room for speculation
there. That said - what you post above, though fair in the realm of
speculation, does nothing to support the claim that everyone will be
forced to buy a SawStop.


Let's just simplify it a bit. Anyone buying a NEW legal table saw IN
THE US would be forced to buy a SawStop.
There's always someone willing to sell non-compliant equipment off the
back of a truck, or to represent it as "used", or to bring
non-compliant equipment in from, say, Mexico. Or China.


Yes - but as I stated - let's not get too carried away here. Proposals are
written every day, and subsequently pared back. I agree that there is cause
for alarm when one individual seems to be gaining a heavy hand, but this
is, at the end of the day - a proposal.

So worst case (which would be a bad worse case...) every new saw would have
to meet the requirements of the new legislation. That by itself does not
meet the FUD from the previous poster that said we would all have to buy
that technology. There remains the existing saws which would not be
affected by this legislation, the used market, etc.

Your simplification is correct (if this goes through without modification),
however it is not the topic of this particular discussion.

BTW - you do not need to capitalize to make your point.

--

-Mike-



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Bill wrote:
On 1/23/2012 12:02 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:

$100 table saws? And you find those exactly where on the Sears web
site? Just what are you really asking?


I didn't know whether retailers were allowed to sell saws that are Not
UL approved. That's what I was really asking.


Of course not. Google could have been your friend.



Also, I was surprised to see $100 TSs that had riving knifes... Here
is one.


Understandable - every one of us are surprised every day by things we did
not know of, or were contrary to what we thought we knew.



http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_1...block Type=G2

I am Not shopping for one of these however!


Good for you Bill - wise decision.

--

-Mike-




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On 1/23/2012 1:18 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 23 Jan 2012 14:06:13 -0500, "Mike Marlow"
wrote:

Just Wondering wrote:
On 1/23/2012 5:48 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
HeyBub wrote:
Mike Marlow wrote:

...not that they aren't trying, mind you.

Really - and just how would they even attempt to accomplish such a
feat? Gast is an ass but he is not stupid.

Have you been living in a cave? The SawStop folks have persuaded the
Consumer Product Safety Commission to propose a federal regulation
mandating SawStop (or equivalent) on table saws.

It's right there in the Federal Register. You really should keep up.

I have - have you? There is nothing in that proposal that forces
you or I to go out and buy a SawStop and melt down our existing
table saws.
The problem is, if the regulation was put into effect, every TS
manufacturer would have to buy technology from the SawStop company. A
TS that retails for $600 today would cost $1200 tomorrow. Sure, you
could disable the SS, but if you wanted to buy a TS at all, you'd have
to pay twice as much for the saw as as you would in a free market.


There is nothing new in that understanding - if... the proposal goes through
as currently written. There's a lot of room for speculation there. That
said - what you post above, though fair in the realm of speculation, does
nothing to support the claim that everyone will be forced to buy a SawStop.

Let's just simplify it a bit. Anyone buying a NEW legal table saw IN
THE US would be forced to buy a SawStop.
There's always someone willing to sell non-compliant equipment off the
back of a truck, or to represent it as "used", or to bring
non-compliant equipment in from, say, Mexico. Or China.


No you could buy any brand you wanted, it would not have to be SawStop.
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On 1/22/2012 11:34 PM, Leon wrote:
On 1/22/2012 9:33 PM, Jack wrote:
On 1/22/2012 7:53 PM, Steve Barker wrote:
On 1/22/2012 12:24 PM, Larry Blanchard wrote:


It's an election year. There must be a better target for your rants
:-).


You're right, i probably did lash out in the wrong place. It just irks
me to see so many seemingly smart people condoning government control
and regulation. I'm sorry if i personally offended any persons in this
group. I do get a lot out of reading the messages here.


On a woodworking group it's hard to imagine a political election being a
better target than forced saw stop ownership.

I think in addition to forced ownership of saw stop crap, the hand
wringers should be forced to buy/use power feeders. Much cheaper than
buying a new hand, right?

Of course if you fall into the power feeder... Well, maybe a law to
force these guys to plunk the plank into the feeder with the power off,
go in another room with the power switch, like a dentist doing xrays....

Yeah, that's the ticket.

Jack
Got Change: Supply and Demand ====== Command and Control!



The fallacy of your analogy here is that if it is mandated by the
government or actually willingly accepted by all manufacturers NO ONE is
going to be forced to buy a saw with this technology.


You can't seriously think anyone is saying every man woman and child,
living in the US, would be forced to buy a table saw are you?

The choice to buy a saw with this technology or not will still be strictly up to you.
I can assure you my wife will not be buying one. The simple truth is
that that if you can not buy a saw with the safety device added you can
elect to not buy a saw at all.


Ahhh, you are saying this... Very dumb of you.

Even more aggravating to me is that right now you cannot buy a saw with
out the common blade guard, a device that is way less effective that the
saw stop technology and yet we buy these saws any way but only because
we want to. No one is forcing us to buy these saws with the less than
desirable guards, which are mandated by some authority.


Thank god for that. I don't think I'd have room if me, the wife, and
two kids were each forced to buy a table saw with (or without) saw stop
technology. Thanks for clearing that up for me.

Now that you cleared that up, do you think running a table
saw/shaper/3hp router in a table with $300 lift would be safer with a
power feeder? Should a power feeder be required with purchase of each
of these machines? (Not by every person in the US, just those purchasing
one of the tools that would be safer with a power feeder?

Should I be allowed to buy a (new) table saw w/o saw stop tech IF I
bought a power feeder, and vice versa, or should I be required to buy
both (if I were to buy a new saw, not implying everyone on earth should
be required to buy any of the above tools...)

I am thinking anyone that buys a (new) Chevy Volt might also be required
to buy a (new) table saw with a power feeder AND Saw Stop tech... Not
sure why, but works for me.

Jack
Got Change: Father knows best === Government knows best!
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On 1/23/2012 2:31 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
wrote:


Let's just simplify it a bit. Anyone buying a NEW legal table saw IN
THE US would be forced to buy a SawStop.
There's always someone willing to sell non-compliant equipment off the
back of a truck, or to represent it as "used", or to bring
non-compliant equipment in from, say, Mexico. Or China.


.....
So worst case (which would be a bad worse case...) every new saw would have
to meet the requirements of the new legislation. That by itself does not
meet the FUD from the previous poster that said we would all have to buy
that technology. There remains the existing saws which would not be
affected by this legislation, the used market, etc.


The "FUD" you speak of is only existing in a few narrow minded folks
that like to argue inane points.

Your simplification is correct (if this goes through without modification),
however it is not the topic of this particular discussion.


I think the topic of this particular discussion evolved from wanting to
see someone ram their hand into a saw with SS tech to the government
mandating that all new saws include SS tech. Seldom to never do
newsgroup threads stay perfectly on topic of the initial discussion.

BTW - you do not need to capitalize to make your point.


Perhaps, but in newsgroups, the correct method of emphasizing text is
capitalization of said text. Bold/underlined and so on doesn't work, so
capitalization it is. Nothing at ALL wrong with how he provided
emphasis. (oops!) You could have emphasized "all" via capitalization in
your FUD sentence above, and it would have added clarity.

Jack



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I agree with you completely.

Take the weiner and whip it at the side of blade from the side like you do
with your own hand, in a split second, after seeing wood jump and a suddenly
loud bang near the blade that makes want to not be there suddenly. I mean,
give it a rest. How many people slowly push there finger into the front edge
of the blade? Maybe some have handicapped parking out the front of their
shop too??


------------
"Steve Barker" wrote in message
...
yeah i saw that one also. he eased it in slower than the hot dog.

-------------
On 1/20/2012 7:41 PM, tiredofspam wrote:
Well, I guess you missed the challenge where Gass stuck his own finger
in. No blood...
But you as a non believer won't believe. No use trying to make you
believe. Not worth the effort.



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That's his point. It may not work as advertised. Who slowly pushes their
finger into the front of the blade?


------------
"Larry W" wrote in message ...
I agree that the government should not mandate adoption of this technology,
but the system does work as advertised. THere are a number of videos on
Youtube and other sites where it is demonstrated at normal feed speeds,
and more than a few testimonials too.


--
When the game is over, the pawn and the king are returned to the same box.

Larry Wasserman - Baltimore Maryland - lwasserm(a)sdf. lonestar.org

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On 1/22/2012 11:14 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:

On a woodworking group it's hard to imagine a political election
being a better target than forced saw stop ownership.

I think in addition to forced ownership of saw stop crap, the hand
wringers should be forced to buy/use power feeders. Much cheaper than
buying a new hand, right?


Oh geezus - this is getting just plain stupid! Nobody - repeat - nobody is
forcing saw stop ownership.


You mean I don't have to run out and buy a saw for everyone in my
family... Thanks, what was I thinking...

If you don't like the saw, the owner of the
company, or the color of the saw - don't buy the damned thing. Nothing is
forcing you to own it. Good Lord - this is just stupid!


You are exactly right. Good thinking. Sure hope no one ran out and
bought a new saw for each family member... Close one....

Now, do you think Tsaws with power feeders are safer than w/o a power
feeder. Do you think anyone buying a (new) router table or shaper
should also have to buy a power feeder, or should the gov't let them
risk mangleation at the expense of the rest of us paying for their
socialized medicine to repair the inevitable damage? How much
mangleation would be prevented if everyone was required to wear a NASCAR
approved crash helmet when riding in a car or truck? Should anyone
buying a saw be required to attend a gov't approved training program
first? So many questions....

Got Change: Individual Freedom ==== Gov't Safety!

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Video is the owner of Saw-Stop on his website. I think the (ice) salt water
is to decrease the impedance of his skin so the detector can see his "meat"
before getting past the high impedance part of your body (skin).

Human skin, especially on your hands is probably less conductive than most
wood. It would have to cut away the skin into the conductive part of your
body before triggering.

--------------

"Justin Time" wrote in message ...
As I understand it, the blade works on electrical signal and not resistance.

Per the website ad: "When skin contacts the blade, the signal changes
because the human body is conductive." "The change to the signal activates
the safety system."

If I recall, a show on cable called "Time Warp" captures action with a super
slo-mo camera. They did a segment about the SawStop and used a real hand.
The guy dipped his hand in ice water prior to the test, which I imagined was
to slow blood flow, and cut wood allowing his hand to hit the blade and it
worked. I can't find any videos right now, but searches may find results.


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The videos stated that most of the accidents occur in seasoned professional
after years of usage. Like most accidents...it's complacency. Good to depend
on your own smarts and have a mechanical device as a backup.

Backup safety barriers are always good. If they aren't why does everybody
have a first aid box handy? Everybody does right?... Right?


----------
"Morgans" wrote in message ...

Much better, in my opinion, to train them to be extremely careful and
to use the already mandated and supplied safety devices. - and to
SUPPLY the devices. (like push sticks, finger boards, splitters and
guards)

Good points.

If I was a high school shop teacher (and I am) and I had a saw stop, I would
tell the guys that they did not work as good as it shows on you-tube and
even worse, that they sometimes did not work at all. That way, they could
not depend on the saw stopping to keep them safe, and they would have to
work on developing safe work habits.

-- Jim in NC



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Make somebody volunteer their own finger. That would stop the garbage.

----------
"Steve Barker" wrote in message
news
i can guarantee if one of those was in a high school, there'd be a
hotdog test every time the cartridge was replaced.

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

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They cover the long term costs of the four operations in the videos. Whether
exaggerated or not they are pretty high.

-------

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...

On Sun, 22 Jan 2012 08:26:04 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 1/22/2012 12:11 AM, Puckdropper wrote:
How much does it cost to reattach a finger or hand?


Evidently, most tablesaur accidents are unrecoverable. The saw
shatters the bones too badly in too many cases. Just call 'em Stubby.


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Davey! Davey. How ignorant of you to say that! You have no idea how legal
suits are done, do you?

When they give you the money you sign papers that silence you. The game is
very early yet.

----------------
"Dave" wrote in message ...

On Sun, 22 Jan 2012 08:26:04 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
Absolutely! We all try to be careful and those of us with half a brain
realize that trying to be careful all of the time just does not fly. We
are human and accidents happen.

How much does it cost to reattach a finger or hand?


There's one thing that all the SawStop naysayers don't consider. That
is the fact that there's no incidents of the SawStop failing to
function as it's designed to. (At least, I haven't heard of any) If
there were, the news of it would have reverberated throughout the
woodworking industry as well as all the general news sources.

Apparently, the SawStop works as it's designed to otherwise we'd all
have heard about it. 'Nuff Said!

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Now the feeling is tight again?

---------
"Leon" wrote in message
...
I did however loose feeling on that side of my finger and there is still
a small dark spot where dirt is apparently still under the skin.
About five years later I noticed that I had regained all feeling in that
finger again.

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The Pharma Giants do the same thing with their drug trials. They get nine
failures from their double blind studies and the tenth one is the one that
gets published. There is no law stating you have to disclose tests that are
negative.

I doubt a hotdog weiner that is flying through the air would trigger any
electrical sensing apparatus. Judging by the claims made on the mfg. website
videos they are lying about a lot of things.


-----------
"Steve Barker" wrote in message
...

On 1/21/2012 11:56 AM, William F. Adams ) wrote:


If memory serves, when they tested this on Ask This Old House the hot
dog was tossed at the blade.


i'm sure we won't be seeing any videos of it mangling a hotdog or other
such thing. The gubmint would never allow the truth to come out about
such things.

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email



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On 1/21/2012 6:25 PM, Swingman wrote:

Yes, it is expensive to set it off. Cartridge and blade.


You guys are wise. IMO, only a fool, with a single employee who's job
description included operating a table saw, would not have a SawStop today.

Cheap at fifty times the price ...


Let's see, one guy had 7 false one's in a couple of years and one grill
that nicked a fing-ee that likely happened because of carelessness
brought on by lack of respect enabled by the SS.

$100 for a good blade, $80 for the replacement mechanism, times 8, times
50... $72,000.

I think it would be close to "not cheap" at fifty times the price, at
least I know no one that would own or use a tsaw with those sort of
numbers mandated.

Also, a power feeder for the hand ringers would keep them safe at least
on rip cuts, and it can be adapted to old saws, shapers, router tables
and all sorts of dangerous equipment. Personally, I think old folks,
like me, should be banned from the dangerous environment of a wood shop.
I think it's starting to get a bit dangerous when I enter my shop. I
guess I hafta look at it like mountain climbers look at mountains...

Don't need no steenking saw stops...

Jack
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On 1/23/2012 4:02 PM, Jack wrote:
On 1/22/2012 11:34 PM, Leon wrote:
On 1/22/2012 9:33 PM, Jack wrote:
On 1/22/2012 7:53 PM, Steve Barker wrote:
On 1/22/2012 12:24 PM, Larry Blanchard wrote:

It's an election year. There must be a better target for your rants
:-).

You're right, i probably did lash out in the wrong place. It just irks
me to see so many seemingly smart people condoning government control
and regulation. I'm sorry if i personally offended any persons in this
group. I do get a lot out of reading the messages here.

On a woodworking group it's hard to imagine a political election being a
better target than forced saw stop ownership.

I think in addition to forced ownership of saw stop crap, the hand
wringers should be forced to buy/use power feeders. Much cheaper than
buying a new hand, right?

Of course if you fall into the power feeder... Well, maybe a law to
force these guys to plunk the plank into the feeder with the power off,
go in another room with the power switch, like a dentist doing xrays....

Yeah, that's the ticket.

Jack
Got Change: Supply and Demand ====== Command and Control!



The fallacy of your analogy here is that if it is mandated by the
government or actually willingly accepted by all manufacturers NO ONE is
going to be forced to buy a saw with this technology.


You can't seriously think anyone is saying every man woman and child,
living in the US, would be forced to buy a table saw are you?


I don't think every one is thinking that but there are those that
probably do. In this day and age you never know what people are thinking.



The choice to buy a saw with this technology or not will still be
strictly up to you.
I can assure you my wife will not be buying one. The simple truth is
that that if you can not buy a saw with the safety device added you can
elect to not buy a saw at all.


Ahhh, you are saying this... Very dumb of you.


No I am not saying this but it has been said repeatedly. I am simply
pointing out that you do not have to purchase a TS at all.



Even more aggravating to me is that right now you cannot buy a saw with
out the common blade guard, a device that is way less effective that the
saw stop technology and yet we buy these saws any way but only because
we want to. No one is forcing us to buy these saws with the less than
desirable guards, which are mandated by some authority.


Thank god for that. I don't think I'd have room if me, the wife, and two
kids were each forced to buy a table saw with (or without) saw stop
technology. Thanks for clearing that up for me.

Now that you cleared that up, do you think running a table
saw/shaper/3hp router in a table with $300 lift would be safer with a
power feeder? Should a power feeder be required with purchase of each of
these machines? (Not by every person in the US, just those purchasing
one of the tools that would be safer with a power feeder?


It might be safer but I don't think it should be mandatory as with the
SawStop.



Should I be allowed to buy a (new) table saw w/o saw stop tech IF I
bought a power feeder, and vice versa, or should I be required to buy
both (if I were to buy a new saw, not implying everyone on earth should
be required to buy any of the above tools...)

I am thinking anyone that buys a (new) Chevy Volt might also be required
to buy a (new) table saw with a power feeder AND Saw Stop tech... Not
sure why, but works for me.


Now having said that all the moaning, groaning and voicing an opinion
of why we think Gass is a SOB apparently is not working.

What those that are clearly alarmed about the situation should do is
voice that if this deal goes through that every one that has a TS now
and "wants" to trade up gets full credit for the saw they already have
as trade in. If you have a 15 year old cabinet saw and you want a new
one but the manufacturer has to pay you what you paid for that saw 15
years ago as trade in.

The manufacturers can't have their cake and eat it too.

But seriously if the mandate goes through supply and demand will dictate
pricing. We'll see then how many are in favor and how many are not.






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On 1/23/2012 5:03 PM, Jack wrote:
On 1/21/2012 6:25 PM, Swingman wrote:

Yes, it is expensive to set it off. Cartridge and blade.


You guys are wise. IMO, only a fool, with a single employee who's job
description included operating a table saw, would not have a SawStop
today.

Cheap at fifty times the price ...


Let's see, one guy had 7 false one's in a couple of years and one grill
that nicked a fing-ee that likely happened because of carelessness
brought on by lack of respect enabled by the SS.

$100 for a good blade, $80 for the replacement mechanism, times 8, times
50... $72,000.

I think it would be close to "not cheap" at fifty times the price, at
least I know no one that would own or use a tsaw with those sort of
numbers mandated.

Also, a power feeder for the hand ringers would keep them safe at least
on rip cuts, and it can be adapted to old saws, shapers, router tables
and all sorts of dangerous equipment. Personally, I think old folks,
like me, should be banned from the dangerous environment of a wood shop.
I think it's starting to get a bit dangerous when I enter my shop. I
guess I hafta look at it like mountain climbers look at mountains...

Don't need no steenking saw stops...

Jack


Now I will have to say to trip the mechanism that many times you also
will have factor in positive trips that actually saved a finger or hand.

Lets say one time in 50, at Approximately $25,000~$35,000 per incident
to cover emergency surgery and reconstruction and rehabilitation and
perhaps a prosthetic and lost wages, TIMES 8 equals $200,000~$280,000,

Yes cheap at 50 times the price.
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On 1/23/2012 5:03 PM, Jack wrote:
On 1/21/2012 6:25 PM, Swingman wrote:

Yes, it is expensive to set it off. Cartridge and blade.


You guys are wise. IMO, only a fool, with a single employee who's job
description included operating a table saw, would not have a SawStop
today.

Cheap at fifty times the price ...


Let's see, one guy had 7 false one's in a couple of years and one grill
that nicked a fing-ee that likely happened because of carelessness
brought on by lack of respect enabled by the SS.

$100 for a good blade, $80 for the replacement mechanism, times 8, times
50... $72,000.

I think it would be close to "not cheap" at fifty times the price, at
least I know no one that would own or use a tsaw with those sort of
numbers mandated.


As an employer, I'd take your $72k for 8 incidents any day over a jury
award of $1.5 million for each incident ... $12,000,000, or over 1300
times the price.



-
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop
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On 1/23/2012 5:49 PM, Swingman wrote:
On 1/23/2012 5:03 PM, Jack wrote:
On 1/21/2012 6:25 PM, Swingman wrote:

Yes, it is expensive to set it off. Cartridge and blade.

You guys are wise. IMO, only a fool, with a single employee who's job
description included operating a table saw, would not have a SawStop
today.

Cheap at fifty times the price ...


Let's see, one guy had 7 false one's in a couple of years and one grill
that nicked a fing-ee that likely happened because of carelessness
brought on by lack of respect enabled by the SS.

$100 for a good blade, $80 for the replacement mechanism, times 8, times
50... $72,000.

I think it would be close to "not cheap" at fifty times the price, at
least I know no one that would own or use a tsaw with those sort of
numbers mandated.


As an employer, I'd take your $72k for 8 incidents any day over a jury
award of $1.5 million for each incident ... $12,000,000, or over 1300
times the price.



Ryobi just learned that lesson.


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On Mon, 23 Jan 2012 17:20:31 -0500, Jack wrote:

Perhaps, but in newsgroups, the correct method of emphasizing text is
capitalization of said text. Bold/underlined and so on doesn't work, so
capitalization it is.


Bold does work in most news readers. Just surround a word or a phrase
with asterisks *like this*.

--
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw
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On Mon, 23 Jan 2012 17:21:46 -0500, "Josepi"
That's his point. It may not work as advertised. Who slowly pushes their
finger into the front of the blade?


Actually, it's entirely possible and probable. Say you're ripping an
8' sheet of wood. You don't need to visualize every inch of pushing to
cut those 8'. A slow feeding of wood and cutting of your finger (until
you react in pain) is entirely possible.
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On Mon, 23 Jan 2012 17:57:25 -0500, "Josepi"
Davey! Davey. How ignorant of you to say that! You have no idea how legal
suits are done, do you?
When they give you the money you sign papers that silence you. The game is
very early yet.


Of course I'm aware of it. How ignorant of you to dismiss human nature
to talk and the eagerness of news outfits to discover and publish the
truth.

If the SawStop failed to fulfill its purpose, the news of it would
spread throughout the woodworking industry like a wildfire ~ despite
any attempt by SawStop insurance to silence such occurrences.
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On Mon, 23 Jan 2012 17:33:30 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
Now I will have to say to trip the mechanism that many times you also
will have factor in positive trips that actually saved a finger or hand.

Lets say one time in 50, at Approximately $25,000~$35,000 per incident
to cover emergency surgery and reconstruction and rehabilitation and
perhaps a prosthetic and lost wages, TIMES 8 equals $200,000~$280,000,

Yes cheap at 50 times the price.


Ultimately, there's those injuries that can't be surgically repaired
which means permanent disfigurement and injury which may cause
permanent loss of or change of employment.

Then, there's the cost of the lawsuits and likelihood of large cash
pay outs.

Finally, there's all the pain and anguish such an injury will cause.
Ultimately, there really isn't any set amount of money you can apply
to that.

Your 'cheap at 50 times the price' is just a pittance of the real
total cost.


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"Josepi" wrote in
:

I agree with you completely.

Take the weiner and whip it at the side of blade from the side like
you do with your own hand, in a split second, after seeing wood jump
and a suddenly loud bang near the blade that makes want to not be
there suddenly. I mean, give it a rest. How many people slowly push
there finger into the front edge of the blade? Maybe some have
handicapped parking out the front of their shop too??



Ok, now here's how we'll solve this once and for all: Get the
Mythbusters to test it.

I'm only half kidding. The sword swinging rig would be ideal to swing a
hot dog into the blade at super human speed. They can track how fast the
hot dog goes, put a high speed camera on the cartridge (if it can be done
without wrecking the thing) and test if it works.

Puckdropper
--
Make it to fit, don't make it fit.
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On Tue, 24 Jan 2012 01:11:41 +0000 (UTC), Larry Blanchard
wrote:

On Mon, 23 Jan 2012 17:20:31 -0500, Jack wrote:

Perhaps, but in newsgroups, the correct method of emphasizing text is
capitalization of said text. Bold/underlined and so on doesn't work, so
capitalization it is.


Bold does work in most news readers. Just surround a word or a phrase
with asterisks *like this*.


Bold doesn't work in one of the largest and best readers, Agent.
-dashes-, _underscores_, and /slashes/ can also be used for emphasis.

Multiple exclamation points and question marks show the naiveté of the
user.

--
I have the consolation of having added nothing to my private fortune during
my public service, and of retiring with hands clean as they are empty.
-- Thomas Jefferson, letter to Count Diodati, 1807
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On Mon, 23 Jan 2012 20:27:37 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Tue, 24 Jan 2012 01:11:41 +0000 (UTC), Larry Blanchard
wrote:

On Mon, 23 Jan 2012 17:20:31 -0500, Jack wrote:

Perhaps, but in newsgroups, the correct method of emphasizing text is
capitalization of said text. Bold/underlined and so on doesn't work, so
capitalization it is.


Bold does work in most news readers. Just surround a word or a phrase
with asterisks *like this*.


Bold doesn't work in one of the largest and best readers, Agent.
-dashes-, _underscores_, and /slashes/ can also be used for emphasis.

Multiple exclamation points and question marks show the naiveté of the
user.



from: http://www.hoax-slayer.com/do-not-use-all-capitals.html

Also, a message written in all capitals is harder to read. In blocks
of text rendered in all capitals, words lose their "shape" because
they are all the same height. Each word becomes a uniform rectangle.
Most people read and quickly recognize words by looking at their
overall shape. We do not read by visualizing words one letter at a
time.

Capital letters are best left for their intended usage and, SPARINGLY
to emphasize a particular word or phrase.


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On Mon, 23 Jan 2012 20:27:37 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:
Multiple exclamation points and question marks show the naiveté of the
user.


The real joke here is it's you saying that. ??? "Larry Jaques" ???
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Jack wrote:


Perhaps, but in newsgroups, the correct method of emphasizing text is
capitalization of said text. Bold/underlined and so on doesn't work,
so capitalization it is. Nothing at ALL wrong with how he provided
emphasis. (oops!) You could have emphasized "all" via capitalization
in your FUD sentence above, and it would have added clarity.


All right - I will confess... in the same way that Larry does not like the
use of tripple exclamation marks (!!!), the use of caps for empasis is one
of those things that just bugs me.

--

-Mike-





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Jack wrote:


You are exactly right. Good thinking. Sure hope no one ran out and
bought a new saw for each family member... Close one....


I like to do my part...


Now, do you think Tsaws with power feeders are safer than w/o a power
feeder.


I don't know. Might be worth getting a few cases of hot dogs and running
some tests to see.

Do you think anyone buying a (new) router table or shaper
should also have to buy a power feeder, or should the gov't let them
risk mangleation at the expense of the rest of us paying for their
socialized medicine to repair the inevitable damage?


Ha - thought you'd catch me with that one, didn't ya? Clever, but you
didn't slip one by me that time Jack. The answer is of course the
government should let them risk mangleation - after all that would be a
government decision, and we all know that the government knows best and does
what's best for all of us... right?


--

-Mike-



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Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in
:

On 1/23/2012 5:49 PM, Swingman wrote:
On 1/23/2012 5:03 PM, Jack wrote:
On 1/21/2012 6:25 PM, Swingman wrote:

Yes, it is expensive to set it off. Cartridge and blade.

You guys are wise. IMO, only a fool, with a single employee who's
job description included operating a table saw, would not have a
SawStop today.

Cheap at fifty times the price ...

Let's see, one guy had 7 false one's in a couple of years and one
grill that nicked a fing-ee that likely happened because of
carelessness brought on by lack of respect enabled by the SS.

$100 for a good blade, $80 for the replacement mechanism, times 8,
times 50... $72,000.

I think it would be close to "not cheap" at fifty times the price,
at least I know no one that would own or use a tsaw with those sort
of numbers mandated.


As an employer, I'd take your $72k for 8 incidents any day over a
jury award of $1.5 million for each incident ... $12,000,000, or over
1300 times the price.



Ryobi just learned that lesson.


You mean they aren't appealing that decision? That is a crime against
humanity, and an undeserved plum for Gass.

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid
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On 1/24/2012 7:48 AM, Han wrote:
Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in
:

On 1/23/2012 5:49 PM, Swingman wrote:
On 1/23/2012 5:03 PM, Jack wrote:
On 1/21/2012 6:25 PM, Swingman wrote:

Yes, it is expensive to set it off. Cartridge and blade.

You guys are wise. IMO, only a fool, with a single employee who's
job description included operating a table saw, would not have a
SawStop today.

Cheap at fifty times the price ...

Let's see, one guy had 7 false one's in a couple of years and one
grill that nicked a fing-ee that likely happened because of
carelessness brought on by lack of respect enabled by the SS.

$100 for a good blade, $80 for the replacement mechanism, times 8,
times 50... $72,000.

I think it would be close to "not cheap" at fifty times the price,
at least I know no one that would own or use a tsaw with those sort
of numbers mandated.

As an employer, I'd take your $72k for 8 incidents any day over a
jury award of $1.5 million for each incident ... $12,000,000, or over
1300 times the price.



Ryobi just learned that lesson.


You mean they aren't appealing that decision? That is a crime against
humanity, and an undeserved plum for Gass.

Regardless of the eventual outcome, what has it cost to for defense?
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Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in
:

On 1/24/2012 7:48 AM, Han wrote:
Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in
:

On 1/23/2012 5:49 PM, Swingman wrote:
On 1/23/2012 5:03 PM, Jack wrote:
On 1/21/2012 6:25 PM, Swingman wrote:

Yes, it is expensive to set it off. Cartridge and blade.

You guys are wise. IMO, only a fool, with a single employee who's
job description included operating a table saw, would not have a
SawStop today.

Cheap at fifty times the price ...

Let's see, one guy had 7 false one's in a couple of years and one
grill that nicked a fing-ee that likely happened because of
carelessness brought on by lack of respect enabled by the SS.

$100 for a good blade, $80 for the replacement mechanism, times 8,
times 50... $72,000.

I think it would be close to "not cheap" at fifty times the price,
at least I know no one that would own or use a tsaw with those
sort of numbers mandated.

As an employer, I'd take your $72k for 8 incidents any day over a
jury award of $1.5 million for each incident ... $12,000,000, or
over 1300 times the price.



Ryobi just learned that lesson.


You mean they aren't appealing that decision? That is a crime
against humanity, and an undeserved plum for Gass.

Regardless of the eventual outcome, what has it cost to for defense?


Like it or not, that is the US law system. If it had been a "frivolous"
suit, you could countersue, I think. IANAL!!!

Btw, I like the system in other countries, where you can be forced to
pay the expenses of the winner of a suit, if the winner is the
defendant. But that doesn't apply here (yet?).

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid
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On 1/23/2012 6:33 PM, Leon wrote:
On 1/23/2012 5:03 PM, Jack wrote:
On 1/21/2012 6:25 PM, Swingman wrote:

Yes, it is expensive to set it off. Cartridge and blade.

You guys are wise. IMO, only a fool, with a single employee who's job
description included operating a table saw, would not have a SawStop
today.


Don't need no steenking saw stops...

Jack


Now I will have to say to trip the mechanism that many times you also
will have factor in positive trips that actually saved a finger or hand.

Lets say one time in 50, at Approximately $25,000~$35,000 per incident
to cover emergency surgery and reconstruction and rehabilitation and
perhaps a prosthetic and lost wages, TIMES 8 equals $200,000~$280,000,

Yes cheap at 50 times the price.


Well I don't have one, nor a blade guard, nor a rive, and after 50 years
of doing this, never nicked one fing-ee. Nor did either of my brothers,
nor did my dad. At my age, I would think owning one might be a good
idea, but, I don't need no steenking gov't dick head mandating I buy one
with a every new saw purchase.

To be really safe, the gov't would have to mandate we stay on the couch,
with a remote so we don't slip on an empty gov't approved potato chip
bag on the way to the gov't controlled TV.

Jack
A Nation of Sheep Breeds a Government of Wolves!



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The accidents I have heard about tell how they didn't even know they
had done it until they saw the blood. Then came the pain.

They don't react in pain.


--------------
"Dave" wrote in message
...
Actually, it's entirely possible and probable. Say you're ripping an
8' sheet of wood. You don't need to visualize every inch of pushing to
cut those 8'. A slow feeding of wood and cutting of your finger (until
you react in pain) is entirely possible.

--------------

On Mon, 23 Jan 2012 17:21:46 -0500, "Josepi"
That's his point. It may not work as advertised. Who slowly pushes
their
finger into the front of the blade?


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Yeah and the $100K repair bill for the amputated fingers and physio,
afterward, just comes from the public health care system and that is
all paid for by the Vietnamese government , right?

The whole thing i public driven after you get a public health care
system.

----------

"Mike Marlow" wrote in message
...

Ha - thought you'd catch me with that one, didn't ya? Clever, but you
didn't slip one by me that time Jack. The answer is of course the
government should let them risk mangleation - after all that would be a
government decision, and we all know that the government knows best and
does
what's best for all of us... right?

--------------
Do you think anyone buying a (new) router table or shaper
should also have to buy a power feeder, or should the gov't let them
risk mangleation at the expense of the rest of us paying for their
socialized medicine to repair the inevitable damage?


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Seems to me Joseppi was right!

You are ignorant of how legal cases work. When you go to a lawyer you
are muzzled or you don't get no money and your lawyer walks away from
you.

---------------
"Dave" wrote in message
...

Of course I'm aware of it. How ignorant of you to dismiss human nature
to talk and the eagerness of news outfits to discover and publish the
truth.

------------

If the SawStop failed to fulfill its purpose, the news of it would
spread throughout the woodworking industry like a wildfire ~ despite
any attempt by SawStop insurance to silence such occurrences.

-------------
On Mon, 23 Jan 2012 17:57:25 -0500, "Josepi"
Davey! Davey. How ignorant of you to say that! You have no idea how
legal
suits are done, do you?
When they give you the money you sign papers that silence you. The
game is
very early yet.


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On 1/23/2012 6:49 PM, Swingman wrote:
On 1/23/2012 5:03 PM, Jack wrote:
On 1/21/2012 6:25 PM, Swingman wrote:

Yes, it is expensive to set it off. Cartridge and blade.


Cheap at fifty times the price ...


$100 for a good blade, $80 for the replacement mechanism, times 8, times
50... $72,000.

I think it would be close to "not cheap" at fifty times the price, at
least I know no one that would own or use a tsaw with those sort of
numbers mandated.


As an employer, I'd take your $72k for 8 incidents any day over a jury
award of $1.5 million for each incident ... $12,000,000, or over 1300
times the price.


As an individual user with 50 years of no incidents under my belt, I'll
take 3 new pickup trucks over $72,000 wasted in false trips.

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On 1/24/2012 9:08 AM, Jack wrote:
On 1/23/2012 6:33 PM, Leon wrote:
On 1/23/2012 5:03 PM, Jack wrote:
On 1/21/2012 6:25 PM, Swingman wrote:

Yes, it is expensive to set it off. Cartridge and blade.

You guys are wise. IMO, only a fool, with a single employee who's job
description included operating a table saw, would not have a SawStop
today.


Don't need no steenking saw stops...

Jack


Now I will have to say to trip the mechanism that many times you also
will have factor in positive trips that actually saved a finger or hand.

Lets say one time in 50, at Approximately $25,000~$35,000 per incident
to cover emergency surgery and reconstruction and rehabilitation and
perhaps a prosthetic and lost wages, TIMES 8 equals $200,000~$280,000,

Yes cheap at 50 times the price.


Well I don't have one, nor a blade guard, nor a rive, and after 50 years
of doing this, never nicked one fing-ee. Nor did either of my brothers,
nor did my dad. At my age, I would think owning one might be a good
idea, but, I don't need no steenking gov't dick head mandating I buy one
with a every new saw purchase.


Jack, you sound exactly like all the people that eventually did have an
accident. Almost verbatim your words came out of their mouths.
The longer you go with out having an accident the closer you are to
having one.


To be really safe, the gov't would have to mandate we stay on the couch,
with a remote so we don't slip on an empty gov't approved potato chip
bag on the way to the gov't controlled TV.


To be really safe, don't cut off your nose to spite your face.
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