On Wed, 01 Jun 2011 17:21:21 -0500, Leon wrote:

Any recommendations on another brand?

Those that might suggest the Osbourne or the Delta version need not do
so, been there done that.

Incra has been a consideration but I do often cut wide boards and I
don't want the gauge hanging off the table.

I don't recall the model #, but I have the Incra with the notch for every
degree. I bought it without a fence and made my own. I'm happy with it.

--
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw

On Wed, 01 Jun 2011 21:40:00 -0700, Edward Hennessey wrote:

The SE fits your requirements for less money.

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_no...3Dtools&field-
keywords=incra+1000HD&x=0&y=0

And here's the one I bought:

http://www.amazon.com/Incra-MITERV12...dp/B001RCTTG6/
ref=sr_1_4?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1307031374&sr=1-4

Yes, it does have a short bar. But I've never seen that as a problem -
with a board laying on it it isn't going to lift.

--
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw

On 6/2/11 7:20 AM, Swingman wrote:
On 6/2/2011 7:09 AM, Swingman wrote:
On 6/1/2011 10:02 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=30603

Don't know if this DeWalt DW7470 is any good, but for $75 it might be.

IMO they all have some undesirable traits but, for sheer repeatable
accuracy I've never been able to beat my Woodhaven ...

I know you don't like it, but mine works and yours doesn't! g, d & r

Not @you, Mike ... Leon.


I was already scratching my head. :-)


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 6/2/11 11:19 AM, Larry Blanchard wrote:
And here's the one I bought:

http://www.amazon.com/Incra-MITERV12...dp/B001RCTTG6/
ref=sr_1_4?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1307031374&sr=1-4

Yes, it does have a short bar. But I've never seen that as a problem -
with a board laying on it it isn't going to lift.


Hey, I like that one, especially at that price.
It has a t-tip for the slot, so I don't see how it would lift, anyway.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

"Leon" lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in message
...
On 6/1/2011 11:40 PM, Edward Hennessey wrote:

"Leon" lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in message
...
On 6/1/2011 10:47 PM, Edward Hennessey wrote:

"Leon" lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in message
...
I have been using a Kreg miter gauge for about 6-8 years now and have
been berry happy with it. Until now.

Today I pulled the brass idexing pin out and adjusted for a 22.5
degree cut and replaced the indexing pin. Felt tight. With difficulty
I pulled it out after the cut and returned it to the 90 degree
setting. Then I had to make that 22.5 degree cut again and the brass
indexing pin would not come out. Pliers and finally vice grips would
not do any thing but twist the pin. I finally had to use a drift to
bound the pin out from the bottom side and the pin is still way too
tight to put back down the hole.

Any recommendations on another brand?

Those that might suggest the Osbourne or the Delta version need not do
so, been there done that.

Incra has been a consideration but I do often cut wide boards and I
don't want the gauge hanging off the table.

JessEm looks great but is out of production, apparently they could not
maintain tolerances.

Sooooooooo

L:


After some recommendations here on TS accessories, I went
a bump up and got the Incra 1000SE. Waiting and looking, it
came to me locally for 120 + the government. The HD was
a contender. But the superior refinements of degree selection
on the SE, confirmed by comparing accounts of experiences,
prodded the decision.

I like it. My saw is left-tilt and it goes on the left side. No
operation has commanded positioning it on the right yet.
I'd guess it might take 5 minutes to switch it the first time,
and a lot less once you get the motions on autoprogram.

The adjustable, expansive Teflon washers to snug up the
miter bar in the slot had one out of position and three
that did need the indicated tuning. If you expand them
so the slot gets into the no-go zone, flip them up
and set the slit line back further before adjusting.

If you want to cut degrees into tenths, it will. You
can use the flip stop as a hold down on your board
for operations where you aren't using it
as a stop.

There was one slip in the directions. You need to loosen
the clamp knob before peforming continuous angle
adjustments in step 2 of "Changing Angle Settings".
Honestly, if you a guy that far and didn't do it, put
the traffic cone on the head...but they mentioned it
where appropriate elsewhere and should have there.

A ball hex key is supplied for various adjustments.
Were I to make a lot of them, I'd be replacing some
of the frequently involved hex screws with thumbscrews.
If the stop rods were graduated, that would have been
nice too. The unit works well without those improvements.
Will you be able to make finicky cuts measuring better
than you can measuring and making a trial cut? No.

There's a toothed engagement strip to fix the positioning
of the flip stop when it's moved. They give you a
lifetime replacment on said strip. But if you honestly
loosen the flip stop enough so it clears the strip
when you move it, you'll never have to use the
guarantee.

Would I buy it again? Hear the hearbeat. And I checked
a range of reviews with a unanimous report of the
same cardiac response.

Good luck.

Regards,

Edward Hennessey


You mention the HD as a contender, which one is that?

If I need to do accurate miters, I use my Dubby sled, each degree of
adjustment requires about 1/4" of fence movement, basically it would
be difficult to miss a setting with that much movement needed to
change the angle 1 degree. The degree scale is at the opposite end of
the fence pivot point.

Basically I like the flip stops and am not that concerned about
multiple angle cuts since 99.9% of my cuts are at 90 degrees. I just
want to know that if it looks like the gauge is set on 90 it
absolutely is. The Kreg indexing pin assured me of that.

Thanks again for the review.

Leon:

The clock beat me up at 3 chimes after 12 yesterday,
so that must mean I rose at 15 o'clock???

If you can read my re-fried mind, my friend,
you must be
a cryptanalyst and a real good cook.

My comments were meant to apply to the
HD. In this parallel universe of you waking
people I got the designations mixed in the
no-funhouse mirror. To affirm, my misgiven
intent was to discuss the HD. The SE is the
one on which I passed. As far as I can determine--pulling
my eyelids open to make sure of what I write--the
only difference between the HD (mine) and the
SE (the contender) is the HD has a superior angle
protractor with vernier cursor adjustment. The
SE fits your requirements for less money.

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_no...1000HD&x=0&y=0


Above is a page that will lead you to both units.
There are 9 reviews for the HD (mine as discussed)
and 74 for the SE. A survey will give you
the drift. They want 160 for the HD and 123
for the SE. As said, I paid 120 and tax for the
HD.

If you can play the waiting game, go to
www.camelcamelcamel.com and you can set a
price tracker for any Amazon item you want.
If the item has been queried in the camelx3 system,
you may get a decent time/price history for it.
Should you care to register there, you can set
price alerts for the stammering camel to let
you know when prices drop.

Right now, I'm going to drop into the
bedbedbed.

Regards,

Edward Hennessey




Thank you! I get it now, HD as in 1000HD. LOL I'll check the reviews.

L:

I wouldn't worry about the Incra mitres flopping off
the side of your table unless you extend the fence
way out. With fence compacted, there won't be
a problem except on midget platforms.

The locking mechanism for degree settings consists
of a 2.5mm thick tooth swung into the protractor
plate and double locked by a thumbscrew on the toothed
plate and a handle/knob on the protractor. With
care in setting the tooth fully into the protractor
detent, I haven't had a problem.

Because of the weight of the mitre/fence assembly
compared to the stripped-down standard mitre,
the unit will want to nose dive if the center of mass
nears the far ledge of the table while crosscutting
a large board. Inexperienced users would want a
premonition of that.

Regards,

Edward Hennessey

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 02 Jun 2011 07:09:34 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 6/1/2011 11:40 PM, Edward Hennessey wrote:
If you can play the waiting game, go to
www.camelcamelcamel.com and you can set a
price tracker for any Amazon item you want.

Right now, I'm going to drop into the
bedbedbed.

Hopefully, that wasn't with a camelcamelcamel, Ed.

LJ:

They spit from the front and kick from the rear.
I'll stick to counting sheep.

Regards,

Edward Hennessey


Thank you! I get it now, HD as in 1000HD. LOL I'll check the reviews.

Right, not sold at Home Depot. He fooled me at first, too.

--
Remember, in an emergency, dial 1911.

On 6/2/2011 9:29 AM, Pat Barber wrote:
On 6/2/2011 8:41 AM, Leon wrote:


Looks like Woodhaven also uses a brass indexing pin but uses brass in
the common indexing holes, perhaps that would prevent the seize problem
I had yesterday.

I have had a Woodhaven basic model for a number of years and it stays
where you put it every single time.

Well Swingman has reminded me that his is a Woodhaven and I have been
looking closely at those. My Kreg works almost exactly the same way. I
liked it because the indexing pin insures you that the gauge is at 90 or
what ever every time.


The two big setting of 90 and 45 are set with a registration pin and
will not move.

Same here except my indexing pin really would not move. LOL



I also have my original 1966 Delta miter guage that came with my 12/14
saw and it is "very" accurate even 46 years later.

It also weighs in at about 20 lbs.

I would get on the horn with Kreg...they are very nice folks.

Already have and they want pictures..



I forget who they bought that miter guage deal from.

I for get too, I bought the Kreg during the transition.

On 6/2/2011 3:45 PM, Edward Hennessey wrote:

"Leon" lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in message
...
On 6/1/2011 11:40 PM, Edward Hennessey wrote:

"Leon" lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in message
...
On 6/1/2011 10:47 PM, Edward Hennessey wrote:

"Leon" lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in message
...
I have been using a Kreg miter gauge for about 6-8 years now and have
been berry happy with it. Until now.

Today I pulled the brass idexing pin out and adjusted for a 22.5
degree cut and replaced the indexing pin. Felt tight. With difficulty
I pulled it out after the cut and returned it to the 90 degree
setting. Then I had to make that 22.5 degree cut again and the brass
indexing pin would not come out. Pliers and finally vice grips would
not do any thing but twist the pin. I finally had to use a drift to
bound the pin out from the bottom side and the pin is still way too
tight to put back down the hole.

Any recommendations on another brand?

Those that might suggest the Osbourne or the Delta version need
not do
so, been there done that.

Incra has been a consideration but I do often cut wide boards and I
don't want the gauge hanging off the table.

JessEm looks great but is out of production, apparently they could
not
maintain tolerances.

Sooooooooo

L:


After some recommendations here on TS accessories, I went
a bump up and got the Incra 1000SE. Waiting and looking, it
came to me locally for 120 + the government. The HD was
a contender. But the superior refinements of degree selection
on the SE, confirmed by comparing accounts of experiences,
prodded the decision.

I like it. My saw is left-tilt and it goes on the left side. No
operation has commanded positioning it on the right yet.
I'd guess it might take 5 minutes to switch it the first time,
and a lot less once you get the motions on autoprogram.

The adjustable, expansive Teflon washers to snug up the
miter bar in the slot had one out of position and three
that did need the indicated tuning. If you expand them
so the slot gets into the no-go zone, flip them up
and set the slit line back further before adjusting.

If you want to cut degrees into tenths, it will. You
can use the flip stop as a hold down on your board
for operations where you aren't using it
as a stop.

There was one slip in the directions. You need to loosen
the clamp knob before peforming continuous angle
adjustments in step 2 of "Changing Angle Settings".
Honestly, if you a guy that far and didn't do it, put
the traffic cone on the head...but they mentioned it
where appropriate elsewhere and should have there.

A ball hex key is supplied for various adjustments.
Were I to make a lot of them, I'd be replacing some
of the frequently involved hex screws with thumbscrews.
If the stop rods were graduated, that would have been
nice too. The unit works well without those improvements.
Will you be able to make finicky cuts measuring better
than you can measuring and making a trial cut? No.

There's a toothed engagement strip to fix the positioning
of the flip stop when it's moved. They give you a
lifetime replacment on said strip. But if you honestly
loosen the flip stop enough so it clears the strip
when you move it, you'll never have to use the
guarantee.

Would I buy it again? Hear the hearbeat. And I checked
a range of reviews with a unanimous report of the
same cardiac response.

Good luck.

Regards,

Edward Hennessey


You mention the HD as a contender, which one is that?

If I need to do accurate miters, I use my Dubby sled, each degree of
adjustment requires about 1/4" of fence movement, basically it would
be difficult to miss a setting with that much movement needed to
change the angle 1 degree. The degree scale is at the opposite end of
the fence pivot point.

Basically I like the flip stops and am not that concerned about
multiple angle cuts since 99.9% of my cuts are at 90 degrees. I just
want to know that if it looks like the gauge is set on 90 it
absolutely is. The Kreg indexing pin assured me of that.

Thanks again for the review.

Leon:

The clock beat me up at 3 chimes after 12 yesterday,
so that must mean I rose at 15 o'clock???

If you can read my re-fried mind, my friend,
you must be
a cryptanalyst and a real good cook.

My comments were meant to apply to the
HD. In this parallel universe of you waking
people I got the designations mixed in the
no-funhouse mirror. To affirm, my misgiven
intent was to discuss the HD. The SE is the
one on which I passed. As far as I can determine--pulling
my eyelids open to make sure of what I write--the
only difference between the HD (mine) and the
SE (the contender) is the HD has a superior angle
protractor with vernier cursor adjustment. The
SE fits your requirements for less money.

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_no...1000HD&x=0&y=0



Above is a page that will lead you to both units.
There are 9 reviews for the HD (mine as discussed)
and 74 for the SE. A survey will give you
the drift. They want 160 for the HD and 123
for the SE. As said, I paid 120 and tax for the
HD.

If you can play the waiting game, go to
www.camelcamelcamel.com and you can set a
price tracker for any Amazon item you want.
If the item has been queried in the camelx3 system,
you may get a decent time/price history for it.
Should you care to register there, you can set
price alerts for the stammering camel to let
you know when prices drop.

Right now, I'm going to drop into the
bedbedbed.

Regards,

Edward Hennessey




Thank you! I get it now, HD as in 1000HD. LOL I'll check the reviews.

L:

I wouldn't worry about the Incra mitres flopping off
the side of your table unless you extend the fence
way out. With fence compacted, there won't be
a problem except on midget platforms.

The locking mechanism for degree settings consists
of a 2.5mm thick tooth swung into the protractor
plate and double locked by a thumbscrew on the toothed
plate and a handle/knob on the protractor. With
care in setting the tooth fully into the protractor
detent, I haven't had a problem.

Because of the weight of the mitre/fence assembly
compared to the stripped-down standard mitre,
the unit will want to nose dive if the center of mass
nears the far ledge of the table while crosscutting
a large board. Inexperienced users would want a
premonition of that.


That is my concern with all that real estate behind the fence.

On Wed, 01 Jun 2011 17:21:21 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

I have been using a Kreg miter gauge for about 6-8 years now and have
been berry happy with it. Until now.

Today I pulled the brass idexing pin out and adjusted for a 22.5 degree
cut and replaced the indexing pin. Felt tight. With difficulty I
pulled it out after the cut and returned it to the 90 degree setting.
Then I had to make that 22.5 degree cut again and the brass indexing pin
would not come out. Pliers and finally vice grips would not do any
thing but twist the pin. I finally had to use a drift to bound the pin
out from the bottom side and the pin is still way too tight to put back
down the hole.

Any recommendations on another brand?

Those that might suggest the Osbourne or the Delta version need not do
so, been there done that.

Incra has been a consideration but I do often cut wide boards and I
don't want the gauge hanging off the table.

JessEm looks great but is out of production, apparently they could not
maintain tolerances.

JessEm is nice, but so is the Incra 1000HD.

Sooooooooo

On 6/2/2011 8:26 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Wed, 01 Jun 2011 17:21:21 -0500, Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

I have been using a Kreg miter gauge for about 6-8 years now and have
been berry happy with it. Until now.

Today I pulled the brass idexing pin out and adjusted for a 22.5 degree
cut and replaced the indexing pin. Felt tight. With difficulty I
pulled it out after the cut and returned it to the 90 degree setting.
Then I had to make that 22.5 degree cut again and the brass indexing pin
would not come out. Pliers and finally vice grips would not do any
thing but twist the pin. I finally had to use a drift to bound the pin
out from the bottom side and the pin is still way too tight to put back
down the hole.

Any recommendations on another brand?

Those that might suggest the Osbourne or the Delta version need not do
so, been there done that.

Incra has been a consideration but I do often cut wide boards and I
don't want the gauge hanging off the table.

JessEm looks great but is out of production, apparently they could not
maintain tolerances.

JessEm is nice, but so is the Incra 1000HD.

Sooooooooo
..
JessEm was my first thought, unfortunately their miter gauge is no
longer in production.

On Thu, 02 Jun 2011 22:43:01 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 6/2/2011 8:26 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Wed, 01 Jun 2011 17:21:21 -0500, Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

I have been using a Kreg miter gauge for about 6-8 years now and have
been berry happy with it. Until now.

Today I pulled the brass idexing pin out and adjusted for a 22.5 degree
cut and replaced the indexing pin. Felt tight. With difficulty I
pulled it out after the cut and returned it to the 90 degree setting.
Then I had to make that 22.5 degree cut again and the brass indexing pin
would not come out. Pliers and finally vice grips would not do any
thing but twist the pin. I finally had to use a drift to bound the pin
out from the bottom side and the pin is still way too tight to put back
down the hole.

Any recommendations on another brand?

Those that might suggest the Osbourne or the Delta version need not do
so, been there done that.

Incra has been a consideration but I do often cut wide boards and I
don't want the gauge hanging off the table.

JessEm looks great but is out of production, apparently they could not
maintain tolerances.

JessEm is nice, but so is the Incra 1000HD.

Sooooooooo
.
JessEm was my first thought, unfortunately their miter gauge is no
longer in production.

But you want it to be, um, bisexual (go either way). If that's a requirement,
you wouldn't like the JessEm anyway. I almost always work to the right of my
left-tilt, so that hasn't been a problem.

"Leon" lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in message
...
On 6/2/2011 3:45 PM, Edward Hennessey wrote:

"Leon" lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in message
...
On 6/1/2011 11:40 PM, Edward Hennessey wrote:

"Leon" lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in message
...
On 6/1/2011 10:47 PM, Edward Hennessey wrote:

"Leon" lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in message
...
I have been using a Kreg miter gauge for about 6-8 years now and
have
been berry happy with it. Until now.

Today I pulled the brass idexing pin out and adjusted for a 22.5
degree cut and replaced the indexing pin. Felt tight. With
difficulty
I pulled it out after the cut and returned it to the 90 degree
setting. Then I had to make that 22.5 degree cut again and the brass
indexing pin would not come out. Pliers and finally vice grips would
not do any thing but twist the pin. I finally had to use a drift to
bound the pin out from the bottom side and the pin is still way too
tight to put back down the hole.

Any recommendations on another brand?

Those that might suggest the Osbourne or the Delta version need
not do
so, been there done that.

Incra has been a consideration but I do often cut wide boards and I
don't want the gauge hanging off the table.

JessEm looks great but is out of production, apparently they could
not
maintain tolerances.

Sooooooooo

L:


After some recommendations here on TS accessories, I went
a bump up and got the Incra 1000SE. Waiting and looking, it
came to me locally for 120 + the government. The HD was
a contender. But the superior refinements of degree selection
on the SE, confirmed by comparing accounts of experiences,
prodded the decision.

I like it. My saw is left-tilt and it goes on the left side. No
operation has commanded positioning it on the right yet.
I'd guess it might take 5 minutes to switch it the first time,
and a lot less once you get the motions on autoprogram.

The adjustable, expansive Teflon washers to snug up the
miter bar in the slot had one out of position and three
that did need the indicated tuning. If you expand them
so the slot gets into the no-go zone, flip them up
and set the slit line back further before adjusting.

If you want to cut degrees into tenths, it will. You
can use the flip stop as a hold down on your board
for operations where you aren't using it
as a stop.

There was one slip in the directions. You need to loosen
the clamp knob before peforming continuous angle
adjustments in step 2 of "Changing Angle Settings".
Honestly, if you a guy that far and didn't do it, put
the traffic cone on the head...but they mentioned it
where appropriate elsewhere and should have there.

A ball hex key is supplied for various adjustments.
Were I to make a lot of them, I'd be replacing some
of the frequently involved hex screws with thumbscrews.
If the stop rods were graduated, that would have been
nice too. The unit works well without those improvements.
Will you be able to make finicky cuts measuring better
than you can measuring and making a trial cut? No.

There's a toothed engagement strip to fix the positioning
of the flip stop when it's moved. They give you a
lifetime replacment on said strip. But if you honestly
loosen the flip stop enough so it clears the strip
when you move it, you'll never have to use the
guarantee.

Would I buy it again? Hear the hearbeat. And I checked
a range of reviews with a unanimous report of the
same cardiac response.

Good luck.

Regards,

Edward Hennessey


You mention the HD as a contender, which one is that?

If I need to do accurate miters, I use my Dubby sled, each degree of
adjustment requires about 1/4" of fence movement, basically it would
be difficult to miss a setting with that much movement needed to
change the angle 1 degree. The degree scale is at the opposite end of
the fence pivot point.

Basically I like the flip stops and am not that concerned about
multiple angle cuts since 99.9% of my cuts are at 90 degrees. I just
want to know that if it looks like the gauge is set on 90 it
absolutely is. The Kreg indexing pin assured me of that.

Thanks again for the review.

Leon:

The clock beat me up at 3 chimes after 12 yesterday,
so that must mean I rose at 15 o'clock???

If you can read my re-fried mind, my friend,
you must be
a cryptanalyst and a real good cook.

My comments were meant to apply to the
HD. In this parallel universe of you waking
people I got the designations mixed in the
no-funhouse mirror. To affirm, my misgiven
intent was to discuss the HD. The SE is the
one on which I passed. As far as I can determine--pulling
my eyelids open to make sure of what I write--the
only difference between the HD (mine) and the
SE (the contender) is the HD has a superior angle
protractor with vernier cursor adjustment. The
SE fits your requirements for less money.

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_no...1000HD&x=0&y=0



Above is a page that will lead you to both units.
There are 9 reviews for the HD (mine as discussed)
and 74 for the SE. A survey will give you
the drift. They want 160 for the HD and 123
for the SE. As said, I paid 120 and tax for the
HD.

If you can play the waiting game, go to
www.camelcamelcamel.com and you can set a
price tracker for any Amazon item you want.
If the item has been queried in the camelx3 system,
you may get a decent time/price history for it.
Should you care to register there, you can set
price alerts for the stammering camel to let
you know when prices drop.

Right now, I'm going to drop into the
bedbedbed.

Regards,

Edward Hennessey




Thank you! I get it now, HD as in 1000HD. LOL I'll check the reviews.

L:

I wouldn't worry about the Incra mitres flopping off
the side of your table unless you extend the fence
way out. With fence compacted, there won't be
a problem except on midget platforms.

The locking mechanism for degree settings consists
of a 2.5mm thick tooth swung into the protractor
plate and double locked by a thumbscrew on the toothed
plate and a handle/knob on the protractor. With
care in setting the tooth fully into the protractor
detent, I haven't had a problem.

Because of the weight of the mitre/fence assembly
compared to the stripped-down standard mitre,
the unit will want to nose dive if the center of mass
nears the far ledge of the table while crosscutting
a large board. Inexperienced users would want a
premonition of that.


That is my concern with all that real estate behind the fence.

L:

It isn't really a concern on the inboard table because
the terminal T bar and the expansive Teflon washers on the
slider bar keep the miter assembly from keeling
backward. As long as you are watching for imbalance
when the T bar on the slider clears the miter
slot on the outgoing end of the table, you'll be fine.

Measuring my saw table today, extending the
fence can outrig it off the table...but if you have a
long, broad piece of wood to cut, the complications
from it are kindred.

Bottom line, there's not much to fuss about that a
little advance notice and experience won't handle.

Regards,

Edward Hennessey

On 6/2/2011 11:08 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Thu, 02 Jun 2011 22:43:01 -0500, Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 6/2/2011 8:26 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Wed, 01 Jun 2011 17:21:21 -0500, Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

I have been using a Kreg miter gauge for about 6-8 years now and have
been berry happy with it. Until now.

Today I pulled the brass idexing pin out and adjusted for a 22.5 degree
cut and replaced the indexing pin. Felt tight. With difficulty I
pulled it out after the cut and returned it to the 90 degree setting.
Then I had to make that 22.5 degree cut again and the brass indexing pin
would not come out. Pliers and finally vice grips would not do any
thing but twist the pin. I finally had to use a drift to bound the pin
out from the bottom side and the pin is still way too tight to put back
down the hole.

Any recommendations on another brand?

Those that might suggest the Osbourne or the Delta version need not do
so, been there done that.

Incra has been a consideration but I do often cut wide boards and I
don't want the gauge hanging off the table.

JessEm looks great but is out of production, apparently they could not
maintain tolerances.

JessEm is nice, but so is the Incra 1000HD.

Sooooooooo
.
JessEm was my first thought, unfortunately their miter gauge is no
longer in production.

But you want it to be, um, bisexual (go either way). If that's a requirement,
you wouldn't like the JessEm anyway. I almost always work to the right of my
left-tilt, so that hasn't been a problem.

Yup, almost equally use on both sides several times a day. I have not
seen the Jeesem in detail lately as far as the fence is concerned.
Thanks for pointing that out.

On 6/3/2011 12:35 AM, Edward Hennessey wrote:

"Leon" lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in message
...
On 6/2/2011 3:45 PM, Edward Hennessey wrote:

"Leon" lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in message
...
On 6/1/2011 11:40 PM, Edward Hennessey wrote:

"Leon" lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in message
...
On 6/1/2011 10:47 PM, Edward Hennessey wrote:

"Leon" lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in message
...
I have been using a Kreg miter gauge for about 6-8 years now and
have
been berry happy with it. Until now.

Today I pulled the brass idexing pin out and adjusted for a 22.5
degree cut and replaced the indexing pin. Felt tight. With
difficulty
I pulled it out after the cut and returned it to the 90 degree
setting. Then I had to make that 22.5 degree cut again and the
brass
indexing pin would not come out. Pliers and finally vice grips
would
not do any thing but twist the pin. I finally had to use a drift to
bound the pin out from the bottom side and the pin is still way too
tight to put back down the hole.

Any recommendations on another brand?

Those that might suggest the Osbourne or the Delta version need
not do
so, been there done that.

Incra has been a consideration but I do often cut wide boards and I
don't want the gauge hanging off the table.

JessEm looks great but is out of production, apparently they could
not
maintain tolerances.

Sooooooooo

L:


After some recommendations here on TS accessories, I went
a bump up and got the Incra 1000SE. Waiting and looking, it
came to me locally for 120 + the government. The HD was
a contender. But the superior refinements of degree selection
on the SE, confirmed by comparing accounts of experiences,
prodded the decision.

I like it. My saw is left-tilt and it goes on the left side. No
operation has commanded positioning it on the right yet.
I'd guess it might take 5 minutes to switch it the first time,
and a lot less once you get the motions on autoprogram.

The adjustable, expansive Teflon washers to snug up the
miter bar in the slot had one out of position and three
that did need the indicated tuning. If you expand them
so the slot gets into the no-go zone, flip them up
and set the slit line back further before adjusting.

If you want to cut degrees into tenths, it will. You
can use the flip stop as a hold down on your board
for operations where you aren't using it
as a stop.

There was one slip in the directions. You need to loosen
the clamp knob before peforming continuous angle
adjustments in step 2 of "Changing Angle Settings".
Honestly, if you a guy that far and didn't do it, put
the traffic cone on the head...but they mentioned it
where appropriate elsewhere and should have there.

A ball hex key is supplied for various adjustments.
Were I to make a lot of them, I'd be replacing some
of the frequently involved hex screws with thumbscrews.
If the stop rods were graduated, that would have been
nice too. The unit works well without those improvements.
Will you be able to make finicky cuts measuring better
than you can measuring and making a trial cut? No.

There's a toothed engagement strip to fix the positioning
of the flip stop when it's moved. They give you a
lifetime replacment on said strip. But if you honestly
loosen the flip stop enough so it clears the strip
when you move it, you'll never have to use the
guarantee.

Would I buy it again? Hear the hearbeat. And I checked
a range of reviews with a unanimous report of the
same cardiac response.

Good luck.

Regards,

Edward Hennessey


You mention the HD as a contender, which one is that?

If I need to do accurate miters, I use my Dubby sled, each degree of
adjustment requires about 1/4" of fence movement, basically it would
be difficult to miss a setting with that much movement needed to
change the angle 1 degree. The degree scale is at the opposite end of
the fence pivot point.

Basically I like the flip stops and am not that concerned about
multiple angle cuts since 99.9% of my cuts are at 90 degrees. I just
want to know that if it looks like the gauge is set on 90 it
absolutely is. The Kreg indexing pin assured me of that.

Thanks again for the review.

Leon:

The clock beat me up at 3 chimes after 12 yesterday,
so that must mean I rose at 15 o'clock???

If you can read my re-fried mind, my friend,
you must be
a cryptanalyst and a real good cook.

My comments were meant to apply to the
HD. In this parallel universe of you waking
people I got the designations mixed in the
no-funhouse mirror. To affirm, my misgiven
intent was to discuss the HD. The SE is the
one on which I passed. As far as I can determine--pulling
my eyelids open to make sure of what I write--the
only difference between the HD (mine) and the
SE (the contender) is the HD has a superior angle
protractor with vernier cursor adjustment. The
SE fits your requirements for less money.

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_no...1000HD&x=0&y=0




Above is a page that will lead you to both units.
There are 9 reviews for the HD (mine as discussed)
and 74 for the SE. A survey will give you
the drift. They want 160 for the HD and 123
for the SE. As said, I paid 120 and tax for the
HD.

If you can play the waiting game, go to
www.camelcamelcamel.com and you can set a
price tracker for any Amazon item you want.
If the item has been queried in the camelx3 system,
you may get a decent time/price history for it.
Should you care to register there, you can set
price alerts for the stammering camel to let
you know when prices drop.

Right now, I'm going to drop into the
bedbedbed.

Regards,

Edward Hennessey




Thank you! I get it now, HD as in 1000HD. LOL I'll check the reviews.

L:

I wouldn't worry about the Incra mitres flopping off
the side of your table unless you extend the fence
way out. With fence compacted, there won't be
a problem except on midget platforms.

The locking mechanism for degree settings consists
of a 2.5mm thick tooth swung into the protractor
plate and double locked by a thumbscrew on the toothed
plate and a handle/knob on the protractor. With
care in setting the tooth fully into the protractor
detent, I haven't had a problem.

Because of the weight of the mitre/fence assembly
compared to the stripped-down standard mitre,
the unit will want to nose dive if the center of mass
nears the far ledge of the table while crosscutting
a large board. Inexperienced users would want a
premonition of that.


That is my concern with all that real estate behind the fence.

L:

It isn't really a concern on the inboard table because
the terminal T bar and the expansive Teflon washers on the
slider bar keep the miter assembly from keeling
backward. As long as you are watching for imbalance
when the T bar on the slider clears the miter
slot on the outgoing end of the table, you'll be fine.

Measuring my saw table today, extending the
fence can outrig it off the table...but if you have a
long, broad piece of wood to cut, the complications
from it are kindred.

Bottom line, there's not much to fuss about that a
little advance notice and experience won't handle.

Regards,

Edward Hennessey


Ok, thanks! I am still waiting to hear from Kreg after sending them the
requested pictures. I think if I end up buying new it will most likely
be a Woodhaven or the Incra 1000SE.

Thanks again for the input.

"Leon" lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in message
...
On 6/3/2011 12:35 AM, Edward Hennessey wrote:

"Leon" lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in message
...
On 6/2/2011 3:45 PM, Edward Hennessey wrote:

"Leon" lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in message
...
On 6/1/2011 11:40 PM, Edward Hennessey wrote:

"Leon" lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in message
...
On 6/1/2011 10:47 PM, Edward Hennessey wrote:

"Leon" lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in message
...
I have been using a Kreg miter gauge for about 6-8 years now and
have
been berry happy with it. Until now.

Today I pulled the brass idexing pin out and adjusted for a 22.5
degree cut and replaced the indexing pin. Felt tight. With
difficulty
I pulled it out after the cut and returned it to the 90 degree
setting. Then I had to make that 22.5 degree cut again and the
brass
indexing pin would not come out. Pliers and finally vice grips
would
not do any thing but twist the pin. I finally had to use a drift
to
bound the pin out from the bottom side and the pin is still way
too
tight to put back down the hole.

Any recommendations on another brand?

Those that might suggest the Osbourne or the Delta version need
not do
so, been there done that.

Incra has been a consideration but I do often cut wide boards and
I
don't want the gauge hanging off the table.

JessEm looks great but is out of production, apparently they could
not
maintain tolerances.

Sooooooooo

L:


After some recommendations here on TS accessories, I went
a bump up and got the Incra 1000SE. Waiting and looking, it
came to me locally for 120 + the government. The HD was
a contender. But the superior refinements of degree selection
on the SE, confirmed by comparing accounts of experiences,
prodded the decision.

I like it. My saw is left-tilt and it goes on the left side. No
operation has commanded positioning it on the right yet.
I'd guess it might take 5 minutes to switch it the first time,
and a lot less once you get the motions on autoprogram.

The adjustable, expansive Teflon washers to snug up the
miter bar in the slot had one out of position and three
that did need the indicated tuning. If you expand them
so the slot gets into the no-go zone, flip them up
and set the slit line back further before adjusting.

If you want to cut degrees into tenths, it will. You
can use the flip stop as a hold down on your board
for operations where you aren't using it
as a stop.

There was one slip in the directions. You need to loosen
the clamp knob before peforming continuous angle
adjustments in step 2 of "Changing Angle Settings".
Honestly, if you a guy that far and didn't do it, put
the traffic cone on the head...but they mentioned it
where appropriate elsewhere and should have there.

A ball hex key is supplied for various adjustments.
Were I to make a lot of them, I'd be replacing some
of the frequently involved hex screws with thumbscrews.
If the stop rods were graduated, that would have been
nice too. The unit works well without those improvements.
Will you be able to make finicky cuts measuring better
than you can measuring and making a trial cut? No.

There's a toothed engagement strip to fix the positioning
of the flip stop when it's moved. They give you a
lifetime replacment on said strip. But if you honestly
loosen the flip stop enough so it clears the strip
when you move it, you'll never have to use the
guarantee.

Would I buy it again? Hear the hearbeat. And I checked
a range of reviews with a unanimous report of the
same cardiac response.

Good luck.

Regards,

Edward Hennessey


You mention the HD as a contender, which one is that?

If I need to do accurate miters, I use my Dubby sled, each degree of
adjustment requires about 1/4" of fence movement, basically it would
be difficult to miss a setting with that much movement needed to
change the angle 1 degree. The degree scale is at the opposite end
of
the fence pivot point.

Basically I like the flip stops and am not that concerned about
multiple angle cuts since 99.9% of my cuts are at 90 degrees. I just
want to know that if it looks like the gauge is set on 90 it
absolutely is. The Kreg indexing pin assured me of that.

Thanks again for the review.

Leon:

The clock beat me up at 3 chimes after 12 yesterday,
so that must mean I rose at 15 o'clock???

If you can read my re-fried mind, my friend,
you must be
a cryptanalyst and a real good cook.

My comments were meant to apply to the
HD. In this parallel universe of you waking
people I got the designations mixed in the
no-funhouse mirror. To affirm, my misgiven
intent was to discuss the HD. The SE is the
one on which I passed. As far as I can determine--pulling
my eyelids open to make sure of what I write--the
only difference between the HD (mine) and the
SE (the contender) is the HD has a superior angle
protractor with vernier cursor adjustment. The
SE fits your requirements for less money.

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_no...1000HD&x=0&y=0




Above is a page that will lead you to both units.
There are 9 reviews for the HD (mine as discussed)
and 74 for the SE. A survey will give you
the drift. They want 160 for the HD and 123
for the SE. As said, I paid 120 and tax for the
HD.

If you can play the waiting game, go to
www.camelcamelcamel.com and you can set a
price tracker for any Amazon item you want.
If the item has been queried in the camelx3 system,
you may get a decent time/price history for it.
Should you care to register there, you can set
price alerts for the stammering camel to let
you know when prices drop.

Right now, I'm going to drop into the
bedbedbed.

Regards,

Edward Hennessey




Thank you! I get it now, HD as in 1000HD. LOL I'll check the reviews.

L:

I wouldn't worry about the Incra mitres flopping off
the side of your table unless you extend the fence
way out. With fence compacted, there won't be
a problem except on midget platforms.

The locking mechanism for degree settings consists
of a 2.5mm thick tooth swung into the protractor
plate and double locked by a thumbscrew on the toothed
plate and a handle/knob on the protractor. With
care in setting the tooth fully into the protractor
detent, I haven't had a problem.

Because of the weight of the mitre/fence assembly
compared to the stripped-down standard mitre,
the unit will want to nose dive if the center of mass
nears the far ledge of the table while crosscutting
a large board. Inexperienced users would want a
premonition of that.


That is my concern with all that real estate behind the fence.

L:

It isn't really a concern on the inboard table because
the terminal T bar and the expansive Teflon washers on the
slider bar keep the miter assembly from keeling
backward. As long as you are watching for imbalance
when the T bar on the slider clears the miter
slot on the outgoing end of the table, you'll be fine.

Measuring my saw table today, extending the
fence can outrig it off the table...but if you have a
long, broad piece of wood to cut, the complications
from it are kindred.

Bottom line, there's not much to fuss about that a
little advance notice and experience won't handle.

Regards,

Edward Hennessey


Ok, thanks! I am still waiting to hear from Kreg after sending them the
requested pictures. I think if I end up buying new it will most likely be
a Woodhaven or the Incra 1000SE.

Thanks again for the input.

L:

You're welome anytime.

Regards,

Edward Hennessey

On Fri, 3 Jun 2011 07:08:03 -0700, "Edward Hennessey"
wrote:


"Leon" lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in message
m...
On 6/3/2011 12:35 AM, Edward Hennessey wrote:

"Leon" lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in message
...
On 6/2/2011 3:45 PM, Edward Hennessey wrote:

"Leon" lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in message
...
On 6/1/2011 11:40 PM, Edward Hennessey wrote:

"Leon" lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in message
...
On 6/1/2011 10:47 PM, Edward Hennessey wrote:

"Leon" lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in message
...

200 lines snipped


Thanks again for the input.

L:

You're welome anytime.

C'mon, guys. Please remember to --snip--.

--
Remember, in an emergency, dial 1911.

On 6/3/2011 11:23 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:


Darn! must'a snipped too much.. ;~(

On Fri, 03 Jun 2011 16:07:38 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 6/3/2011 11:23 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:

Darn! must'a snipped too much.. ;~(

Ah rectum so.

--
Remember, in an emergency, dial 1911.

On Fri, 03 Jun 2011 16:07:38 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 6/3/2011 11:23 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:


Darn! must'a snipped too much.. ;~(

Oops, itchy trigger finger.

I meant to add "I see that it's hard to teach you old dogs new
tricks."

--
Remember, in an emergency, dial 1911.

On 6/3/2011 9:06 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:

I meant to add "I see that it's hard to teach you old dogs new
tricks."

Old dog and new tricks? Wot?? I know those guys!!

http://www.e-woodshop.net/images/ODNT.jpg

(Damn, that was over 30 years ago ...)



--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)

On Sat, 04 Jun 2011 08:25:11 -0500, Swingman wrote:

On 6/3/2011 9:06 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:

I meant to add "I see that it's hard to teach you old dogs new
tricks."

Old dog and new tricks? Wot?? I know those guys!!

http://www.e-woodshop.net/images/ODNT.jpg

(Damn, that was over 30 years ago ...)

insert mournful howl here

--
Experience is a good teacher, but she send in terrific bills.
-- Minna Thomas Antrim

On Fri, 03 Jun 2011 07:04:20 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 6/2/2011 11:08 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Thu, 02 Jun 2011 22:43:01 -0500, Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 6/2/2011 8:26 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Wed, 01 Jun 2011 17:21:21 -0500, Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

I have been using a Kreg miter gauge for about 6-8 years now and have
been berry happy with it. Until now.

Today I pulled the brass idexing pin out and adjusted for a 22.5 degree
cut and replaced the indexing pin. Felt tight. With difficulty I
pulled it out after the cut and returned it to the 90 degree setting.
Then I had to make that 22.5 degree cut again and the brass indexing pin
would not come out. Pliers and finally vice grips would not do any
thing but twist the pin. I finally had to use a drift to bound the pin
out from the bottom side and the pin is still way too tight to put back
down the hole.

Any recommendations on another brand?

Those that might suggest the Osbourne or the Delta version need not do
so, been there done that.

Incra has been a consideration but I do often cut wide boards and I
don't want the gauge hanging off the table.

JessEm looks great but is out of production, apparently they could not
maintain tolerances.

JessEm is nice, but so is the Incra 1000HD.

Sooooooooo
.
JessEm was my first thought, unfortunately their miter gauge is no
longer in production.

But you want it to be, um, bisexual (go either way). If that's a requirement,
you wouldn't like the JessEm anyway. I almost always work to the right of my
left-tilt, so that hasn't been a problem.

Yup, almost equally use on both sides several times a day. I have not
seen the Jeesem in detail lately as far as the fence is concerned.
Thanks for pointing that out.

The issue is the extension fence, but I think that'll be a problem with any of
them. Take that out (and ignore the tape) and it should work.

On 6/4/2011 2:11 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Fri, 03 Jun 2011 07:04:20 -0500, Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 6/2/2011 11:08 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Thu, 02 Jun 2011 22:43:01 -0500, Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 6/2/2011 8:26 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Wed, 01 Jun 2011 17:21:21 -0500, Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

I have been using a Kreg miter gauge for about 6-8 years now and have
been berry happy with it. Until now.

Today I pulled the brass idexing pin out and adjusted for a 22.5 degree
cut and replaced the indexing pin. Felt tight. With difficulty I
pulled it out after the cut and returned it to the 90 degree setting.
Then I had to make that 22.5 degree cut again and the brass indexing pin
would not come out. Pliers and finally vice grips would not do any
thing but twist the pin. I finally had to use a drift to bound the pin
out from the bottom side and the pin is still way too tight to put back
down the hole.

Any recommendations on another brand?

Those that might suggest the Osbourne or the Delta version need not do
so, been there done that.

Incra has been a consideration but I do often cut wide boards and I
don't want the gauge hanging off the table.

JessEm looks great but is out of production, apparently they could not
maintain tolerances.

JessEm is nice, but so is the Incra 1000HD.

Sooooooooo
.
JessEm was my first thought, unfortunately their miter gauge is no
longer in production.

But you want it to be, um, bisexual (go either way). If that's a requirement,
you wouldn't like the JessEm anyway. I almost always work to the right of my
left-tilt, so that hasn't been a problem.

Yup, almost equally use on both sides several times a day. I have not
seen the Jeesem in detail lately as far as the fence is concerned.
Thanks for pointing that out.

The issue is the extension fence, but I think that'll be a problem with any of
them. Take that out (and ignore the tape) and it should work.

Actually my concern is how short the guide bar is when the gauge is
behind a wide board, Length of the fence is not a concern. The Incra
miter gauges have Incradabley short guide bars, as much as 8" shorter
than some of the competition.

On Sat, 04 Jun 2011 15:34:17 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 6/4/2011 2:11 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Fri, 03 Jun 2011 07:04:20 -0500, Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 6/2/2011 11:08 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Thu, 02 Jun 2011 22:43:01 -0500, Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 6/2/2011 8:26 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Wed, 01 Jun 2011 17:21:21 -0500, Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

I have been using a Kreg miter gauge for about 6-8 years now and have
been berry happy with it. Until now.

Today I pulled the brass idexing pin out and adjusted for a 22.5 degree
cut and replaced the indexing pin. Felt tight. With difficulty I
pulled it out after the cut and returned it to the 90 degree setting.
Then I had to make that 22.5 degree cut again and the brass indexing pin
would not come out. Pliers and finally vice grips would not do any
thing but twist the pin. I finally had to use a drift to bound the pin
out from the bottom side and the pin is still way too tight to put back
down the hole.

Any recommendations on another brand?

Those that might suggest the Osbourne or the Delta version need not do
so, been there done that.

Incra has been a consideration but I do often cut wide boards and I
don't want the gauge hanging off the table.

JessEm looks great but is out of production, apparently they could not
maintain tolerances.

JessEm is nice, but so is the Incra 1000HD.

Sooooooooo
.
JessEm was my first thought, unfortunately their miter gauge is no
longer in production.

But you want it to be, um, bisexual (go either way). If that's a requirement,
you wouldn't like the JessEm anyway. I almost always work to the right of my
left-tilt, so that hasn't been a problem.

Yup, almost equally use on both sides several times a day. I have not
seen the Jeesem in detail lately as far as the fence is concerned.
Thanks for pointing that out.

The issue is the extension fence, but I think that'll be a problem with any of
them. Take that out (and ignore the tape) and it should work.

Actually my concern is how short the guide bar is when the gauge is
behind a wide board, Length of the fence is not a concern. The Incra
miter gauges have Incradabley short guide bars, as much as 8" shorter
than some of the competition.

I thought they were short too, but with the adjustments they fit extremely
well. I don't think making them longer would be much of an improvement. With
the 'T' slot tang on the front it would just be an incentive to bend it. ;-)

"Leon" lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in message
...
On 6/4/2011 2:11 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Fri, 03 Jun 2011 07:04:20 -0500, Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 6/2/2011 11:08 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Thu, 02 Jun 2011 22:43:01 -0500, Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 6/2/2011 8:26 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Wed, 01 Jun 2011 17:21:21 -0500, Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:
Actually my concern is how short the guide bar is when the gauge is behind
a wide board, Length of the fence is not a concern. The Incra miter
gauges have Incradabley short guide bars, as much as 8" shorter than some
of the competition.

Leonidas:

Tell you what, spec me on how wide/thick a board you
have in mind and I'll load something on the Incra and
give you feedback.

Regards,

Edward Hennessey

On 6/5/2011 2:06 PM, Jim Weisgram wrote:
[...snip...]
I am not sure the thing is available any more. I visited all the
dealers that Woodhaven listed and none show the miter gauge and one
listed the Deluxe as discontinued.. ;~( Next time I am over I'll try to
take a closer look.


The Woodhaven web site still lists it for sale, as does Amazon.

http://woodhaven.com/Woodhaven-4911K...B002LU3BY4.htm


Yes, I have found them to be available. Thanks.

On 6/5/2011 12:54 PM, Edward Hennessey wrote:

"Leon" lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in message
...
On 6/4/2011 2:11 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Fri, 03 Jun 2011 07:04:20 -0500, Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 6/2/2011 11:08 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Thu, 02 Jun 2011 22:43:01 -0500, Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 6/2/2011 8:26 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Wed, 01 Jun 2011 17:21:21 -0500, Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:
Actually my concern is how short the guide bar is when the gauge is
behind a wide board, Length of the fence is not a concern. The Incra
miter gauges have Incradabley short guide bars, as much as 8" shorter
than some of the competition.

Leonidas:

Tell you what, spec me on how wide/thick a board you
have in mind and I'll load something on the Incra and
give you feedback.

Regards,

Edward Hennessey

That is mighty generous of you sir. Thank you.

Here is what I am thinking. I try not to cut anything with the miter
gauge that would require the gauge fence to go behind the front edge of
the TS.

The 1000 series have pretty shore guide bars. My concern is that the
guide bar might not wobble left or right a bit until the rest of the
track feeds into he fence. Basically can the miter gauge be wiggled
back and forth when half the of the guide bar is not engaged with the
miter slot?

"Leon" lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in message
...
On 6/5/2011 12:54 PM, Edward Hennessey wrote:

"Leon" lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in message
...
On 6/4/2011 2:11 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Fri, 03 Jun 2011 07:04:20 -0500, Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 6/2/2011 11:08 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Thu, 02 Jun 2011 22:43:01 -0500, Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 6/2/2011 8:26 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Wed, 01 Jun 2011 17:21:21 -0500, Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:
Actually my concern is how short the guide bar is when the gauge is
behind a wide board, Length of the fence is not a concern. The Incra
miter gauges have Incradabley short guide bars, as much as 8" shorter
than some of the competition.

Leonidas:

Tell you what, spec me on how wide/thick a board you
have in mind and I'll load something on the Incra and
give you feedback.

Regards,

Edward Hennessey

That is mighty generous of you sir. Thank you.

Here is what I am thinking. I try not to cut anything with the miter
gauge that would require the gauge fence to go behind the front edge of
the TS.

The 1000 series have pretty shore guide bars. My concern is that the
guide bar might not wobble left or right a bit until the rest of the track
feeds into he fence. Basically can the miter gauge be wiggled back and
forth when half the of the guide bar is not engaged with the miter slot?

L:

My pleasure.

I'll check tomorrow and report.

To review, aside from the terminal metal T on the guide
bar there are split Teflon washers adjustable by machine
screws. Mine are expanded for a snug fit that does not
impede bar movement and, hopefully, won't invite
their rapid wear.

Because vertical play might be a subsequent question,
I'll load the unit with a wider board in your check position
, as well as noting unloaded performance.

Frankly, the basic miter assembly original to the machine
was good and memory says it has a guide bar
of similar length to the Incra, without the final T.
That will win a trial too for comparison.

One of the books I swallowed recently suggests remedies
for tightening simple guide bars worth note. A drill press
would be advisable as an installation tool.

At equidistant points
spaced alternately on both sides along the center line of
the guide bar thickness, drill and install Teflon or brass
screws. Cut off the heads. Turn them in with a pliers/vice
grip until they fit into the miter bar slot and evenly protrude
according to your preference for the degree of snugness
desired. Sounds like a snappy approach to a worn
miter slot.

Regards,

Edward Hennessey

On 6/5/2011 11:07 PM, Edward Hennessey wrote:

"Leon" lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in message
...
On 6/5/2011 12:54 PM, Edward Hennessey wrote:
Snip


Actually my concern is how short the guide bar is when the gauge is
behind a wide board, Length of the fence is not a concern. The Incra
miter gauges have Incradabley short guide bars, as much as 8" shorter
than some of the competition.

Leonidas:

Tell you what, spec me on how wide/thick a board you
have in mind and I'll load something on the Incra and
give you feedback.

Regards,

Edward Hennessey

That is mighty generous of you sir. Thank you.

Here is what I am thinking. I try not to cut anything with the miter
gauge that would require the gauge fence to go behind the front edge
of the TS.

The 1000 series have pretty shore guide bars. My concern is that the
guide bar might not wobble left or right a bit until the rest of the
track feeds into he fence. Basically can the miter gauge be wiggled
back and forth when half the of the guide bar is not engaged with the
miter slot?

L:

My pleasure.

I'll check tomorrow and report.

To review, aside from the terminal metal T on the guide
bar there are split Teflon washers adjustable by machine
screws. Mine are expanded for a snug fit that does not
impede bar movement and, hopefully, won't invite
their rapid wear.

Now I realize that the Incra probably has a guide bar slot adjustment
just ahead of the fence position and farther forward towards the end of
the bar. How many in the span I do not know, and I am not going to
argue with your results as you have the proof and I only have
speculation to the possible results. Generally speaking the more guide
bar adjustments the less likely that there will be any left/right
pivoting. The 1000 series has 6 adjustments which seems adequate if
they are all on one side of the bar. If there are three on one side and
three on the other maybe not as good. Anyway with approximately half
of the adjustments behind the fence you potentially loose half the slop
adjustments.

Now having said that Incra had been making these things for a long time
and one would think that my concerns are a non issue. But then again
the Osbourne miter gauge had been around a while but still as observed
on Friday the latest version continues to have lots of slop when the
gauge is set on the left side miter slot, the gauge is set to 45 degrees
with the telescoping adjustment mechanism extend to its farthest point.
The opposite 45 degree setting is nice and tight but that telescoping
bar is not fully extended for that particular 45 degree setting. A
sales guy at Woodcraft was showing mt the Osbourn and I told him that I
thought the Osbourn was a pretty good gauge except for that one deal
killer inherent flaw. He said that he uses and owns the Osbourn miter
gauge and then I told him about the problem and "showed" him how the
gauge has that slop problem. The look on his face went from proud to
shocked as he grabbed the miter gauge and double checked what I showed
him. Unfortunately what makes the Osbourn gauge strong also makes it
weak at certain miter settings. BUT ANYWAY....

On Mon, 06 Jun 2011 06:44:07 -0500, Leon wrote:

Now I realize that the Incra probably has a guide bar slot adjustment
just ahead of the fence position and farther forward towards the end of
the bar. How many in the span I do not know, and I am not going to
argue with your results as you have the proof and I only have
speculation to the possible results. Generally speaking the more guide
bar adjustments the less likely that there will be any left/right
pivoting.

Years ago, Incra came out with the Miter Slider line. They only had two
slot adjustments, one at each end, which made them pretty well useless
any time either end was off the table. I did a quick check and found
that the 18" model is still like that. The 25" model has 3. Oh well.

Myself, I'm kind of partial to these:

http://www.ptreeusa.com/miter_t_bar_detail.htm

Shouldn't be that hard to replace the bar on a miter gauge with one of
these. So far I've just used them for jigs like sliding tables so I
haven't tried.

--
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw

"Leon" lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in message
...
On 6/5/2011 11:07 PM, Edward Hennessey wrote:

"Leon" lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in message
...
On 6/5/2011 12:54 PM, Edward Hennessey wrote:
Snip


Actually my concern is how short the guide bar is when the gauge is
behind a wide board, Length of the fence is not a concern. The Incra
miter gauges have Incradabley short guide bars, as much as 8" shorter
than some of the competition.

Leonidas:

Tell you what, spec me on how wide/thick a board you
have in mind and I'll load something on the Incra and
give you feedback.

Regards,

Edward Hennessey

That is mighty generous of you sir. Thank you.

Here is what I am thinking. I try not to cut anything with the miter
gauge that would require the gauge fence to go behind the front edge
of the TS.

The 1000 series have pretty shore guide bars. My concern is that the
guide bar might not wobble left or right a bit until the rest of the
track feeds into he fence. Basically can the miter gauge be wiggled
back and forth when half the of the guide bar is not engaged with the
miter slot?

L:

Approximately measured tests were conducted a little after
the sun awoke.

Observations.

*The horizontal terminal T on the end of the guide bar is
not adjustable for expansion. It has visible side-to-side and
vertical clearances.

*The 5 Teflon expansion washers are located on alternate
bar sides with two paired towards the bar front,
two paired near the front of the
of the fence (the forward fence face splits one
of the washers) and one rear of the fence.

*With the fence/protractor off the table, twisting and purely
horizontal play were evident. The weight of the unsupported
components are a prime factor in accentuating the twist.

*The table space in front of the 10" blade cut is about
9.75". The miter assembly gains adequate purchase on
the table to cut a board about 9.5" in width with a 10"
blade.

*Pushing a wide board off the table front, stability of
the Incra unit appears best maintained by slightly tilting
the forward bar upward to give the nose T contact
with the miter slot while applying a more noticeable
rightward twist to counter the leftward fence/protractor mass.

As the Incra moves forward to table contact
(even with a forward table bevel), the necessity for the
rightward twist affirms itself to avoid fence collision
with the table.

*With all that weight back of the table and shifted to one
side, I'm honestly unsure whether a longer bar would
be corrective.

The OEM fence guide on the front of the trial table saw would
be an obstruction to contriving any support for the Incra
off the table. Instead of reinventing the wheel, if your
interest persists, the Incra people should have good input
on this and the whole issue.

Also, I tried the OEM miter guage. It suffered from more
horizontal slop off and on the table. Without the big fence,
the twist was less. After I fooled with it to refine function
a long time ago, it cut close enough to dead on that I didn't
need a micrometer in the argument.

The Incra is better, the fence
is super once on the table and I haven't cut at enough fat
boards to give a firm opinion on what can be attained.

That's the qualified skinny.

Regards,

Edward Hennessey

On 6/6/2011 4:11 PM, Edward Hennessey wrote:

"Leon" lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in message
...
On 6/5/2011 11:07 PM, Edward Hennessey wrote:

"Leon" lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in message
...
On 6/5/2011 12:54 PM, Edward Hennessey wrote:
Snip


Actually my concern is how short the guide bar is when the gauge is
behind a wide board, Length of the fence is not a concern. The Incra
miter gauges have Incradabley short guide bars, as much as 8" shorter
than some of the competition.

Leonidas:

Tell you what, spec me on how wide/thick a board you
have in mind and I'll load something on the Incra and
give you feedback.

Regards,

Edward Hennessey

That is mighty generous of you sir. Thank you.

Here is what I am thinking. I try not to cut anything with the miter
gauge that would require the gauge fence to go behind the front edge
of the TS.

The 1000 series have pretty shore guide bars. My concern is that the
guide bar might not wobble left or right a bit until the rest of the
track feeds into he fence. Basically can the miter gauge be wiggled
back and forth when half the of the guide bar is not engaged with the
miter slot?

L:

Approximately measured tests were conducted a little after
the sun awoke.

Observations.

*The horizontal terminal T on the end of the guide bar is
not adjustable for expansion. It has visible side-to-side and
vertical clearances.

*The 5 Teflon expansion washers are located on alternate
bar sides with two paired towards the bar front,
two paired near the front of the
of the fence (the forward fence face splits one
of the washers) and one rear of the fence.

*With the fence/protractor off the table, twisting and purely
horizontal play were evident. The weight of the unsupported
components are a prime factor in accentuating the twist.

*The table space in front of the 10" blade cut is about
9.75". The miter assembly gains adequate purchase on
the table to cut a board about 9.5" in width with a 10"
blade.

*Pushing a wide board off the table front, stability of
the Incra unit appears best maintained by slightly tilting
the forward bar upward to give the nose T contact
with the miter slot while applying a more noticeable
rightward twist to counter the leftward fence/protractor mass.

As the Incra moves forward to table contact
(even with a forward table bevel), the necessity for the
rightward twist affirms itself to avoid fence collision
with the table.

*With all that weight back of the table and shifted to one
side, I'm honestly unsure whether a longer bar would
be corrective.

The OEM fence guide on the front of the trial table saw would
be an obstruction to contriving any support for the Incra
off the table. Instead of reinventing the wheel, if your
interest persists, the Incra people should have good input
on this and the whole issue.

Also, I tried the OEM miter guage. It suffered from more
horizontal slop off and on the table. Without the big fence,
the twist was less. After I fooled with it to refine function
a long time ago, it cut close enough to dead on that I didn't
need a micrometer in the argument.

The Incra is better, the fence
is super once on the table and I haven't cut at enough fat
boards to give a firm opinion on what can be attained.

That's the qualified skinny.

Regards,

Edward Hennessey


Thank you very much Henry. I really do appreciate all the effort you
went to and the information.

Thanks again.

On 6/6/2011 8:10 PM, Leon wrote:
On 6/6/2011 4:11 PM, Edward Hennessey wrote:

"Leon" lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in message
...
On 6/5/2011 11:07 PM, Edward Hennessey wrote:

"Leon" lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in message
...
On 6/5/2011 12:54 PM, Edward Hennessey wrote:
Snip


Actually my concern is how short the guide bar is when the gauge is
behind a wide board, Length of the fence is not a concern. The Incra
miter gauges have Incradabley short guide bars, as much as 8"
shorter
than some of the competition.

Leonidas:

Tell you what, spec me on how wide/thick a board you
have in mind and I'll load something on the Incra and
give you feedback.

Regards,

Edward Hennessey

That is mighty generous of you sir. Thank you.

Here is what I am thinking. I try not to cut anything with the miter
gauge that would require the gauge fence to go behind the front edge
of the TS.

The 1000 series have pretty shore guide bars. My concern is that the
guide bar might not wobble left or right a bit until the rest of the
track feeds into he fence. Basically can the miter gauge be wiggled
back and forth when half the of the guide bar is not engaged with the
miter slot?

L:

Approximately measured tests were conducted a little after
the sun awoke.

Observations.

*The horizontal terminal T on the end of the guide bar is
not adjustable for expansion. It has visible side-to-side and
vertical clearances.

*The 5 Teflon expansion washers are located on alternate
bar sides with two paired towards the bar front,
two paired near the front of the
of the fence (the forward fence face splits one
of the washers) and one rear of the fence.

*With the fence/protractor off the table, twisting and purely
horizontal play were evident. The weight of the unsupported
components are a prime factor in accentuating the twist.

*The table space in front of the 10" blade cut is about
9.75". The miter assembly gains adequate purchase on
the table to cut a board about 9.5" in width with a 10"
blade.

*Pushing a wide board off the table front, stability of
the Incra unit appears best maintained by slightly tilting
the forward bar upward to give the nose T contact
with the miter slot while applying a more noticeable
rightward twist to counter the leftward fence/protractor mass.

As the Incra moves forward to table contact
(even with a forward table bevel), the necessity for the
rightward twist affirms itself to avoid fence collision
with the table.

*With all that weight back of the table and shifted to one
side, I'm honestly unsure whether a longer bar would
be corrective.

The OEM fence guide on the front of the trial table saw would
be an obstruction to contriving any support for the Incra
off the table. Instead of reinventing the wheel, if your
interest persists, the Incra people should have good input
on this and the whole issue.

Also, I tried the OEM miter guage. It suffered from more
horizontal slop off and on the table. Without the big fence,
the twist was less. After I fooled with it to refine function
a long time ago, it cut close enough to dead on that I didn't
need a micrometer in the argument.

The Incra is better, the fence
is super once on the table and I haven't cut at enough fat
boards to give a firm opinion on what can be attained.

That's the qualified skinny.

Regards,

Edward Hennessey


Thank you very much Henry. I really do appreciate all the effort you
went to and the information.

Thanks again.



AND THEN I CALL YOU HENRY. O! M! G!


sorry , sorry, sorry.... I just met a new neighbor whose name is Henry.

Thank you EDWARD

On 6/6/11 8:12 PM, Leon wrote:


AND THEN I CALL YOU HENRY. O! M! G!


sorry , sorry, sorry.... I just met a new neighbor whose name is Henry.

Thank you EDWARD

HAHA!! Leon, it appears you have what my mom calls Halfheimer's. :-)


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

"Leon" lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in message
...
On 6/6/2011 8:10 PM, Leon wrote:
On 6/6/2011 4:11 PM, Edward Hennessey wrote:

"Leon" lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in message
...
On 6/5/2011 11:07 PM, Edward Hennessey wrote:

"Leon" lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in message
...
On 6/5/2011 12:54 PM, Edward Hennessey wrote:
Snip


Actually my concern is how short the guide bar is when the gauge is
behind a wide board, Length of the fence is not a concern. The
Incra
miter gauges have Incradabley short guide bars, as much as 8"
shorter
than some of the competition.

Leonidas:

Tell you what, spec me on how wide/thick a board you
have in mind and I'll load something on the Incra and
give you feedback.

Regards,

Edward Hennessey

That is mighty generous of you sir. Thank you.

Here is what I am thinking. I try not to cut anything with the miter
gauge that would require the gauge fence to go behind the front edge
of the TS.

The 1000 series have pretty shore guide bars. My concern is that the
guide bar might not wobble left or right a bit until the rest of the
track feeds into he fence. Basically can the miter gauge be wiggled
back and forth when half the of the guide bar is not engaged with the
miter slot?

L:

Approximately measured tests were conducted a little after
the sun awoke.

Observations.

*The horizontal terminal T on the end of the guide bar is
not adjustable for expansion. It has visible side-to-side and
vertical clearances.

*The 5 Teflon expansion washers are located on alternate
bar sides with two paired towards the bar front,
two paired near the front of the
of the fence (the forward fence face splits one
of the washers) and one rear of the fence.

*With the fence/protractor off the table, twisting and purely
horizontal play were evident. The weight of the unsupported
components are a prime factor in accentuating the twist.

*The table space in front of the 10" blade cut is about
9.75". The miter assembly gains adequate purchase on
the table to cut a board about 9.5" in width with a 10"
blade.

*Pushing a wide board off the table front, stability of
the Incra unit appears best maintained by slightly tilting
the forward bar upward to give the nose T contact
with the miter slot while applying a more noticeable
rightward twist to counter the leftward fence/protractor mass.

As the Incra moves forward to table contact
(even with a forward table bevel), the necessity for the
rightward twist affirms itself to avoid fence collision
with the table.

*With all that weight back of the table and shifted to one
side, I'm honestly unsure whether a longer bar would
be corrective.

The OEM fence guide on the front of the trial table saw would
be an obstruction to contriving any support for the Incra
off the table. Instead of reinventing the wheel, if your
interest persists, the Incra people should have good input
on this and the whole issue.

Also, I tried the OEM miter guage. It suffered from more
horizontal slop off and on the table. Without the big fence,
the twist was less. After I fooled with it to refine function
a long time ago, it cut close enough to dead on that I didn't
need a micrometer in the argument.

The Incra is better, the fence
is super once on the table and I haven't cut at enough fat
boards to give a firm opinion on what can be attained.

That's the qualified skinny.

Regards,

Edward Hennessey


Thank you very much Henry. I really do appreciate all the effort you
went to and the information.

Thanks again.



AND THEN I CALL YOU HENRY. O! M! G!


sorry , sorry, sorry.... I just met a new neighbor whose name is Henry.

Thank you EDWARD

Leonid:

You have second sight. You saw right through my cybernym.
But watch that guy next door. If he's going by Edward,
he may be a vampire. You're lucky he's not calling himself
"George"; that's number one among captured Russki
spies. But, "Henry"...are Frenchmen dangerous?

And..now seriously...my pleasure, again. You're welcome.

I'm thinking of calling/emailing the Incramen with the
final observations and seeing what they say. If this happens
with feedback, I'll pin it to the thread.

Regards,

Edward Hennessey

The real field test would be cutting a piece of scrap. Maybe
there's something in the wood pile. In fact,

On 6/6/2011 8:34 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 6/6/11 8:12 PM, Leon wrote:


AND THEN I CALL YOU HENRY. O! M! G!


sorry , sorry, sorry.... I just met a new neighbor whose name is Henry.

Thank you EDWARD

HAHA!! Leon, it appears you have what my mom calls Halfheimer's. :-)


I am also claiming lack of sleep. Saturday night a neighbor's 2 Pit
Bulls went after it barking non stop from 1:00 am Sunday morning until
about 5:00 am Sunday morning until animal control picked one up.
Three times neighbors called police, 5 squad cars showed up on 3
different occasions that I know of and I got to meet 3~4 of my new
neighbors out in the street at about 3:00 am in the morning. This
barking has been an on going problem and it came to a head early Sunday
morning. Had the police not come there probably would have been a
lenching. We all damn near rioted because the owners of the dogs would
not answer the door. One of the dogs escaped his back yard 3 times that
night so he was able to spread his non stop barking through out the
immediate neighborhood. The police were so ****ed that they told us
exactly what we needed to fear to legally shoot the dogs.

"Leon" lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in message
...
On 6/6/2011 8:34 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 6/6/11 8:12 PM, Leon wrote:


AND THEN I CALL YOU HENRY. O! M! G!


sorry , sorry, sorry.... I just met a new neighbor whose name is Henry.

Thank you EDWARD

HAHA!! Leon, it appears you have what my mom calls Halfheimer's. :-)


I am also claiming lack of sleep. Saturday night a neighbor's 2 Pit Bulls
went after it barking non stop from 1:00 am Sunday morning until about
5:00 am Sunday morning until animal control picked one up.
Three times neighbors called police, 5 squad cars showed up on 3 different
occasions that I know of and I got to meet 3~4 of my new neighbors out in
the street at about 3:00 am in the morning. This barking has been an on
going problem and it came to a head early Sunday morning. Had the police
not come there probably would have been a lenching. We all damn near
rioted because the owners of the dogs would not answer the door. One of
the dogs escaped his back yard 3 times that night so he was able to spread
his non stop barking through out the immediate neighborhood. The police
were so ****ed that they told us exactly what we needed to fear to legally
shoot the dogs.

L:

Insomnia works in wonderous ways. Who was that
unsleepyhead who initially got the Incra model he owned wrong
earlier in the thread? Oh, me. It happens with everybody.

Somehow related, here's a story for your neighborhood.

A neighbor's dog is barking ferociously at night.
The couple next door keeps waking up. It gets
to where the blonde wife punches her husband.
But he just rolls over and pulls the pillow around
his head. Finally, she punches him hard, he does
the same thing and she announces "If you're not
going to do anything about it, I am." He rolls over.

She rushes out of the bedroom. She returns
after a few minutes and triumphantly climbs into
bed. The dog starts barking wildly again.

Her husband
raises up, looks at her and says "I thought you fixed that."
She says, " I sure did. I put that damn dog in our yard.
See how they like it now."

Regards,

Edward Hennessey

On 6/6/11 9:59 PM, Leon wrote:
On 6/6/2011 8:34 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 6/6/11 8:12 PM, Leon wrote:


AND THEN I CALL YOU HENRY. O! M! G!


sorry , sorry, sorry.... I just met a new neighbor whose name is Henry.

Thank you EDWARD

HAHA!! Leon, it appears you have what my mom calls Halfheimer's. :-)


I am also claiming lack of sleep. Saturday night a neighbor's 2 Pit
Bulls went after it barking non stop from 1:00 am Sunday morning until
about 5:00 am Sunday morning until animal control picked one up.
Three times neighbors called police, 5 squad cars showed up on 3
different occasions that I know of and I got to meet 3~4 of my new
neighbors out in the street at about 3:00 am in the morning. This
barking has been an on going problem and it came to a head early Sunday
morning. Had the police not come there probably would have been a
lenching. We all damn near rioted because the owners of the dogs would
not answer the door. One of the dogs escaped his back yard 3 times that
night so he was able to spread his non stop barking through out the
immediate neighborhood. The police were so ****ed that they told us
exactly what we needed to fear to legally shoot the dogs.

Sounds like some of the people in my neighborhood.
I don't know how people have to be raised in order to have complete
disregard for their neighbors. With most people (I optimistically still
believe) if they were woken up by their own dog's barking, would
immediately be in a cold sweat, thinking, "OMG, what will my neighbors
think?" and they'd go out and shut the dogs up.

Back in Ohio, I had two neighbors. One would bend over backwards to
help you.... salt of the earth types.
The other had a dog that barked all night. One day, I couldn't take it
anymore and went over to talk to them about it. They said, "Well, a dog
is gonna bark at deer and another animals. They're just being dogs." I
said, "That's true, but how about if you take him in for the night."
Their reply (not making this up), "If we take him in, he'll keep us up
all night, barking to be let out."


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 6/6/2011 10:45 PM, Edward Hennessey wrote:

"Leon" lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in message
...
On 6/6/2011 8:34 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 6/6/11 8:12 PM, Leon wrote:


AND THEN I CALL YOU HENRY. O! M! G!


sorry , sorry, sorry.... I just met a new neighbor whose name is Henry.

Thank you EDWARD

HAHA!! Leon, it appears you have what my mom calls Halfheimer's. :-)


I am also claiming lack of sleep. Saturday night a neighbor's 2 Pit
Bulls went after it barking non stop from 1:00 am Sunday morning until
about 5:00 am Sunday morning until animal control picked one up.
Three times neighbors called police, 5 squad cars showed up on 3
different occasions that I know of and I got to meet 3~4 of my new
neighbors out in the street at about 3:00 am in the morning. This
barking has been an on going problem and it came to a head early
Sunday morning. Had the police not come there probably would have been
a lenching. We all damn near rioted because the owners of the dogs
would not answer the door. One of the dogs escaped his back yard 3
times that night so he was able to spread his non stop barking through
out the immediate neighborhood. The police were so ****ed that they
told us exactly what we needed to fear to legally shoot the dogs.

L:

Insomnia works in wonderous ways. Who was that
unsleepyhead who initially got the Incra model he owned wrong
earlier in the thread? Oh, me. It happens with everybody.

Somehow related, here's a story for your neighborhood.

A neighbor's dog is barking ferociously at night.
The couple next door keeps waking up. It gets
to where the blonde wife punches her husband.
But he just rolls over and pulls the pillow around
his head. Finally, she punches him hard, he does
the same thing and she announces "If you're not
going to do anything about it, I am." He rolls over.

She rushes out of the bedroom. She returns
after a few minutes and triumphantly climbs into
bed. The dog starts barking wildly again.

Her husband
raises up, looks at her and says "I thought you fixed that."
She says, " I sure did. I put that damn dog in our yard.
See how they like it now."


Now that is FUNNY

On 6/6/2011 10:58 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 6/6/11 9:59 PM, Leon wrote:
On 6/6/2011 8:34 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 6/6/11 8:12 PM, Leon wrote:


AND THEN I CALL YOU HENRY. O! M! G!


sorry , sorry, sorry.... I just met a new neighbor whose name is Henry.

Thank you EDWARD

HAHA!! Leon, it appears you have what my mom calls Halfheimer's. :-)


I am also claiming lack of sleep. Saturday night a neighbor's 2 Pit
Bulls went after it barking non stop from 1:00 am Sunday morning until
about 5:00 am Sunday morning until animal control picked one up.
Three times neighbors called police, 5 squad cars showed up on 3
different occasions that I know of and I got to meet 3~4 of my new
neighbors out in the street at about 3:00 am in the morning. This
barking has been an on going problem and it came to a head early Sunday
morning. Had the police not come there probably would have been a
lenching. We all damn near rioted because the owners of the dogs would
not answer the door. One of the dogs escaped his back yard 3 times that
night so he was able to spread his non stop barking through out the
immediate neighborhood. The police were so ****ed that they told us
exactly what we needed to fear to legally shoot the dogs.

Sounds like some of the people in my neighborhood.
I don't know how people have to be raised in order to have complete
disregard for their neighbors. With most people (I optimistically still
believe) if they were woken up by their own dog's barking, would
immediately be in a cold sweat, thinking, "OMG, what will my neighbors
think?" and they'd go out and shut the dogs up.

Back in Ohio, I had two neighbors. One would bend over backwards to help
you.... salt of the earth types.
The other had a dog that barked all night. One day, I couldn't take it
anymore and went over to talk to them about it. They said, "Well, a dog
is gonna bark at deer and another animals. They're just being dogs." I
said, "That's true, but how about if you take him in for the night."
Their reply (not making this up), "If we take him in, he'll keep us up
all night, barking to be let out."


The dogs owner, the wife, told me yesterday that the problem dog was
gone. I told her that if the other dog keeps me from going to sleep
that I would see to it that they would not get any sleep either.

I am not trying to be an ass but as you said some people are stupid.

Oddly they try to explain the whys. I explained the results.