Moved into the house 11 years ago.
Back exterior doors looked to be part of a fairly new remodel.
They are solid wood, framing a large glass panels, with what appears to
be a simple poly top coat that has been beaten by sun and rain and
almost completely gone near the bottom.
Yes, I've neglected. Something about a shoemaker's sons. :-)

I want something that will last the longest and withstand the sun and
rain.
I'm toying around with an epoxy product similar to this...
http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/2004140/9248/Mirror-Coat-112-Quart-Kit.aspx
http://xrl.us/bijwr4

I've seen several applications of this and similar products and they
seem to be like virtually dipping the object in plastic. The stuff seems
to be impervious to anything, including sun and water. I wouldn't mind
spending a hundred bucks on this stuff it it's going to protect like I
think it will.

Has anyone used it in an exterior application?


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 2/25/2011 12:00 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
Moved into the house 11 years ago.
Back exterior doors looked to be part of a fairly new remodel.
They are solid wood, framing a large glass panels, with what appears to
be a simple poly top coat that has been beaten by sun and rain and
almost completely gone near the bottom.
Yes, I've neglected. Something about a shoemaker's sons. :-)

I want something that will last the longest and withstand the sun and rain.
I'm toying around with an epoxy product similar to this...
http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/2004140/9248/Mirror-Coat-112-Quart-Kit.aspx

http://xrl.us/bijwr4

I've seen several applications of this and similar products and they
seem to be like virtually dipping the object in plastic. The stuff seems
to be impervious to anything, including sun and water. I wouldn't mind
spending a hundred bucks on this stuff it it's going to protect like I
think it will.

Has anyone used it in an exterior application?




Check the instructions on it if you can get them. I use a lot of this
stuff for bars, tabletops, etc. and most of them say not for exterior
use. The stuff tends to yellow with age when used outside and I don't
know what else it may do.

I have a few projects that I did for outdoors and they are ok, but that
was West Marine stuff and it is for outdoor use.

Just saying it can be done, but make sure you use the right stuff.

--
Robert Allison
New Braunfels, TX

-MIKE- wrote:
Moved into the house 11 years ago.
Back exterior doors looked to be part of a fairly new remodel.
They are solid wood, framing a large glass panels, with what appears
to be a simple poly top coat that has been beaten by sun and rain and
almost completely gone near the bottom.
Yes, I've neglected. Something about a shoemaker's sons. :-)

I want something that will last the longest and withstand the sun and
rain.
I'm toying around with an epoxy product similar to this...
http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/2004140/9248/Mirror-Coat-112-Quart-Kit.aspx
http://xrl.us/bijwr4

I've seen several applications of this and similar products and they
seem to be like virtually dipping the object in plastic. The stuff
seems to be impervious to anything, including sun and water. I
wouldn't mind spending a hundred bucks on this stuff it it's going to
protect like I think it will.

Has anyone used it in an exterior application?

Two things might influence your choice: The color of the wood and whether it
is exposed to direct sunlight. If the wood is fairly dark and in the shade,
you can't go wrong with multiple coats of spar varnish.

In article ,
says...

Moved into the house 11 years ago.
Back exterior doors looked to be part of a fairly new remodel.
They are solid wood, framing a large glass panels, with what appears to
be a simple poly top coat that has been beaten by sun and rain and
almost completely gone near the bottom.
Yes, I've neglected. Something about a shoemaker's sons. :-)

I want something that will last the longest and withstand the sun and
rain.
I'm toying around with an epoxy product similar to this...
http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/2004140/9248/Mirror-Coat-112-Quart-Kit.aspx
http://xrl.us/bijwr4

I've seen several applications of this and similar products and they
seem to be like virtually dipping the object in plastic. The stuff seems
to be impervious to anything, including sun and water. I wouldn't mind
spending a hundred bucks on this stuff it it's going to protect like I
think it will.

Has anyone used it in an exterior application?

Epoxy has no more innate immunity to UV than any other coating--the
manufacturer says specifically that it will yellow in exterior exposure
which implies that it doesn't have the heavy dose of UV barrier that a
coating intended for exterior use would have.

Take a look at
http://www.jamestowndistributors.com...uct.do?pid=869
&familyName=AwlBrite+Clear+Gloss+Base, which is specifically intended
for exterior use under harsh conditions.

J. Clarke wrote:


Take a look at
http://www.jamestowndistributors.com...uct.do?pid=869
&familyName=AwlBrite+Clear+Gloss+Base, which is specifically intended
for exterior use under harsh conditions.

I was going to suggest urethane coatings like those used in automotive
refinishing. About as good a UV resistant coating as one can find. Several
years ago I got tired of the brass handles on two of our exterior doors
looking all tired and worn out, so I took them into the garage, buffed them
up with rubbing compound until I had them at a like-new shine, and then shot
them with clear coat. Years later, they look like the day I shot them.

--

-Mike-

"-MIKE-" wrote in message
...
Moved into the house 11 years ago.
Back exterior doors looked to be part of a fairly new remodel.
They are solid wood, framing a large glass panels, with what appears to
be a simple poly top coat that has been beaten by sun and rain and
almost completely gone near the bottom.
Yes, I've neglected. Something about a shoemaker's sons. :-)

I want something that will last the longest and withstand the sun and
rain.
I'm toying around with an epoxy product similar to this...
http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/2004140/9248/Mirror-Coat-112-Quart-Kit.aspx
http://xrl.us/bijwr4

I've seen several applications of this and similar products and they
seem to be like virtually dipping the object in plastic. The stuff seems
to be impervious to anything, including sun and water. I wouldn't mind
spending a hundred bucks on this stuff it it's going to protect like I
think it will.

Has anyone used it in an exterior application?



I have not heard of any finish, except paint, that lasts much more than a
few years when direct sun light is involved. It will probably be a constant
problem that you will have to deal with every few years.

"-MIKE-" wrote in message
...
Moved into the house 11 years ago.
Back exterior doors looked to be part of a fairly new remodel.
They are solid wood, framing a large glass panels, with what appears to
be a simple poly top coat that has been beaten by sun and rain and
almost completely gone near the bottom.
Yes, I've neglected. Something about a shoemaker's sons. :-)

I want something that will last the longest and withstand the sun and
rain.
I'm toying around with an epoxy product similar to this...
http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/2004140/9248/Mirror-Coat-112-Quart-Kit.aspx
http://xrl.us/bijwr4

I've seen several applications of this and similar products and they
seem to be like virtually dipping the object in plastic. The stuff seems
to be impervious to anything, including sun and water. I wouldn't mind
spending a hundred bucks on this stuff it it's going to protect like I
think it will.

Has anyone used it in an exterior application?


Its been my experience that most epoxy resins are not UV resistant including
marine grade epoxy. I had a discussion once with a fellow at a gun show who
claimed he had an epoxy resin with a good UV inhibitor when I queried him
about some carbon fiber transport luggage he was using. He said they made
their own carry luggage as a counterpoint to the carbon fiber bolt on
fixtures (stocks, grips, etc) they made for various more popular firearms.
He declined my invitation to set one of his bags in my backyard for a summer
to see how it held up to the Arizona sun.

On 2/25/11 7:39 AM, J. Clarke wrote:
Has anyone used it in an exterior application?

Epoxy has no more innate immunity to UV than any other coating--the
manufacturer says specifically that it will yellow in exterior exposure
which implies that it doesn't have the heavy dose of UV barrier that a
coating intended for exterior use would have.

Take a look at
http://www.jamestowndistributors.com...uct.do?pid=869
&familyName=AwlBrite+Clear+Gloss+Base, which is specifically intended
for exterior use under harsh conditions.


Thank you for actually reading my post and replying with relevant,
helpful info. :-)


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 2/25/11 8:59 AM, dadiOH wrote:
-MIKE- wrote:
Moved into the house 11 years ago.
Back exterior doors looked to be part of a fairly new remodel.
They are solid wood, framing a large glass panels, with what appears
to be a simple poly top coat that has been beaten by sun and rain and
almost completely gone near the bottom.
Yes, I've neglected. Something about a shoemaker's sons. :-)

I want something that will last the longest and withstand the sun and
rain.
I'm toying around with an epoxy product similar to this...
http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/2004140/9248/Mirror-Coat-112-Quart-Kit.aspx
http://xrl.us/bijwr4

I've seen several applications of this and similar products and they
seem to be like virtually dipping the object in plastic. The stuff
seems to be impervious to anything, including sun and water. I
wouldn't mind spending a hundred bucks on this stuff it it's going to
protect like I think it will.

Has anyone used it in an exterior application?

I've never used it but I wouldn't touch it with a 10' pole (for your
potential use).

If it *is* epoxy - as opposed to polyester - then it will deteriorate
rapidly from UV unless protected. The best protection is paint. If it is
polyester, that isn't great either for what you want. I once did all the
bright work on a 42' sailboat with polyester resin thinned with styrene;
brushed on several coats, wet sanded smooth, polished with rubbing compound,
looked great. Two years later I sanded (and sanded...and sanded...and
sanded) it all off and went back to varnish.

There is NO clear coat that will last as long as paint. If you want the
wood to show, use oil or a NON-poly varnish with UV filter. Both will need
periodic maintenance, oil is the easiest, just wipe on, varnish will need
sanding first.


Thanks. I guess the general consensus is, "sorry, you're outta luck."

I don't think I want to paint... the wood still looks too nice.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

Leon wrote:


I have not heard of any finish, except paint, that lasts much more
than a few years when direct sun light is involved. It will probably
be a constant problem that you will have to deal with every few years.

Pssst... Leon - go look at your car...

--

-Mike-

-MIKE- wrote:
On 2/25/11 8:59 AM, dadiOH wrote:


There is NO clear coat that will last as long as paint. If you want
the wood to show, use oil or a NON-poly varnish with UV filter. Both will
need periodic maintenance, oil is the easiest, just wipe
on, varnish will need sanding first.


Thanks. I guess the general consensus is, "sorry, you're outta luck."

I don't think I want to paint... the wood still looks too nice.

Sorry Mike but I had not seen dadiOH's repsonse earlier. I have to disagree
with the broad brush he paints with. There are indeed clear coats that are
superior to paints. Just do look at your car...

--

-Mike-

"Mike Marlow" wrote in message
...
Leon wrote:


I have not heard of any finish, except paint, that lasts much more
than a few years when direct sun light is involved. It will probably
be a constant problem that you will have to deal with every few years.

Pssst... Leon - go look at your car...

Yeah paint, right?

On Sat, 26 Feb 2011 19:53:28 -0600, "Leon"
wrote:


"Mike Marlow" wrote in message
.. .
Leon wrote:


I have not heard of any finish, except paint, that lasts much more
than a few years when direct sun light is involved. It will probably
be a constant problem that you will have to deal with every few years.

Pssst... Leon - go look at your car...

Yeah paint, right?

That shiny stuff over the paint is a clearcoat with extremely high UV
resistance.

--
You can't wait for inspiration. You have to go after it with a club.
--Jack London

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 26 Feb 2011 19:53:28 -0600, "Leon"
wrote:


"Mike Marlow" wrote in message
. ..
Leon wrote:


I have not heard of any finish, except paint, that lasts much more
than a few years when direct sun light is involved. It will probably
be a constant problem that you will have to deal with every few years.

Pssst... Leon - go look at your car...

Yeah paint, right?

That shiny stuff over the paint is a clearcoat with extremely high UV
resistance.

Which works very well over automotive paint, not wood and even with flex
agents added don't work real well as it will eventually crack. Wood moves
all the time and automotive color coat and clear coats do best on surfaces
that don't expand and contract as much as wood does. Color coated rubber
painted bumpers tend to crack in a few years if flexed.

On Sun, 27 Feb 2011 08:51:02 -0600, "Leon"
wrote:


"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 26 Feb 2011 19:53:28 -0600, "Leon"
wrote:


"Mike Marlow" wrote in message
.. .
Leon wrote:


I have not heard of any finish, except paint, that lasts much more
than a few years when direct sun light is involved. It will probably
be a constant problem that you will have to deal with every few years.

Pssst... Leon - go look at your car...

Yeah paint, right?

That shiny stuff over the paint is a clearcoat with extremely high UV
resistance.

Which works very well over automotive paint, not wood and even with flex
agents added don't work real well as it will eventually crack. Wood moves
all the time and automotive color coat and clear coats do best on surfaces
that don't expand and contract as much as wood does. Color coated rubber
painted bumpers tend to crack in a few years if flexed.

Didn't Mike have good experiences with it, though? Someone just stated
that. shrug


--
You can't wait for inspiration. You have to go after it with a club.
--Jack London

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 27 Feb 2011 08:51:02 -0600, "Leon"
wrote:


"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
. ..
On Sat, 26 Feb 2011 19:53:28 -0600, "Leon"
wrote:


"Mike Marlow" wrote in message
. ..
Leon wrote:


I have not heard of any finish, except paint, that lasts much more
than a few years when direct sun light is involved. It will probably
be a constant problem that you will have to deal with every few
years.

Pssst... Leon - go look at your car...

Yeah paint, right?

That shiny stuff over the paint is a clearcoat with extremely high UV
resistance.

Which works very well over automotive paint, not wood and even with flex
agents added don't work real well as it will eventually crack. Wood moves
all the time and automotive color coat and clear coats do best on surfaces
that don't expand and contract as much as wood does. Color coated rubber
painted bumpers tend to crack in a few years if flexed.

Didn't Mike have good experiences with it, though? Someone just stated
that. shrug

I could not say, perhaps he is satisfied with an automotive paint finish on
his wood products.

Leon wrote:


Which works very well over automotive paint, not wood and even with
flex agents added don't work real well as it will eventually crack. Wood
moves all the time and automotive color coat and clear coats do
best on surfaces that don't expand and contract as much as wood does.
Color coated rubber painted bumpers tend to crack in a few years if
flexed.

I have never had a bumper cover crack on me Leon, and I've painted a lot of
them. I don't use flex agents at all - not worth the time with today's
paints. They served a better purpose back in the days of lacquer. A couple
of weeks ago I hit a deer and wasted the front end of my car. The bumper
cover was torn in many places. The hood folded up just like it is designed
to do. The bumper cover paint never even cracked where it went through the
extreme flexing it underwent. The hood - well pretty good sized chunks of
clear, base and primer came free where the crinkles were - but they were big
crinkles.

I've never tried clear coat on wood, so I don't know how it would stand up
over time, but I'm not so sure I'd expect it to crack from normal movement.
It would be interesting to see. Maybe I'll shoot a stick next time I'm
shooting a car. My bigger point was that there are indeed very UV resistant
urethanes out there. My personal familiarity is with the automotive stuff,
but it would not surprise me if there weren't a similar product formulated
for wood.

--

-Mike-

Leon wrote:


I could not say, perhaps he is satisfied with an automotive paint
finish on his wood products.

What better way to get that craftsman-like plastic coated look?

Actually - I had posted an experience with re-clearing a brass door handle -
a different thing.

--

-Mike-

"Mike Marlow" wrote in message
...
Leon wrote:


I could not say, perhaps he is satisfied with an automotive paint
finish on his wood products.

What better way to get that craftsman-like plastic coated look?

;~)



Actually - I had posted an experience with re-clearing a brass door
handle - a different thing.

"Mike Marlow" wrote in message
...
Leon wrote:


Which works very well over automotive paint, not wood and even with
flex agents added don't work real well as it will eventually crack. Wood
moves all the time and automotive color coat and clear coats do
best on surfaces that don't expand and contract as much as wood does.
Color coated rubber painted bumpers tend to crack in a few years if
flexed.

I have never had a bumper cover crack on me Leon, and I've painted a lot
of them. I don't use flex agents at all - not worth the time with today's
paints. They served a better purpose back in the days of lacquer. A
couple of weeks ago I hit a deer and wasted the front end of my car. The
bumper cover was torn in many places. The hood folded up just like it is
designed to do. The bumper cover paint never even cracked where it went
through the extreme flexing it underwent. The hood - well pretty good
sized chunks of clear, base and primer came free where the crinkles were -
but they were big crinkles.


How old is /was the vehicle?




I've never tried clear coat on wood, so I don't know how it would stand up
over time, but I'm not so sure I'd expect it to crack from normal
movement. It would be interesting to see. Maybe I'll shoot a stick next
time I'm shooting a car. My bigger point was that there are indeed very
UV resistant urethanes out there. My personal familiarity is with the
automotive stuff, but it would not surprise me if there weren't a similar
product formulated for wood.


Perhaps... ;~)

Leon wrote:
"Mike Marlow" wrote in message
...


I have never had a bumper cover crack on me Leon, and I've painted a
lot of them. I don't use flex agents at all - not worth the time
with today's paints. They served a better purpose back in the days
of lacquer. A couple of weeks ago I hit a deer and wasted the front
end of my car. The bumper cover was torn in many places. The hood
folded up just like it is designed to do. The bumper cover paint
never even cracked where it went through the extreme flexing it
underwent. The hood - well pretty good sized chunks of clear, base
and primer came free where the crinkles were - but they were big
crinkles.


How old is /was the vehicle?


This particular vehicle is a 2006 Sonata. All fixed like new now.


--

-Mike-

On Feb 25, 1:40*pm, -MIKE- wrote:
On 2/25/11 7:39 AM, J. Clarke wrote:

Has anyone used it in an exterior application?

Epoxy has no more innate immunity to UV than any other coating--the
manufacturer says specifically that it will yellow in exterior exposure
which implies that it doesn't have the heavy dose of UV barrier that a
coating intended for exterior use would have.

Take a look at
http://www.jamestowndistributors.com...uct.do?pid=869
&familyName=AwlBrite+Clear+Gloss+Base, which is specifically intended
for exterior use under harsh conditions.

Thank you for actually reading my post and replying with relevant,
helpful info. * :-)

I noticed this part from that link:
"Ten coats are recommended."

Now don't skimp and try to squeak by with only eight or nine
coats.

R

On 2/28/11 5:21 PM, Larry Kraus wrote:

My understanding and experience is that any clear finish on wood has a
relatively short exterior life span. UV rays (direct or reflected)
degrade the wood surface through the finish, and the finish has
nothing to cling to. Additives for UV resistance may slow the damage
but it still occurs. If you can see the wood, the light is breaking
down the surface. Personally, if it is outside, I feel wood should be
painted. Life is too short to spend it refinishing doors every few
years.

FWIW, I've never seen a painted house that didn't need repainted every 5
or so years.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

In article ,
says...

On 2/28/11 5:21 PM, Larry Kraus wrote:

My understanding and experience is that any clear finish on wood has a
relatively short exterior life span. UV rays (direct or reflected)
degrade the wood surface through the finish, and the finish has
nothing to cling to. Additives for UV resistance may slow the damage
but it still occurs. If you can see the wood, the light is breaking
down the surface. Personally, if it is outside, I feel wood should be
painted. Life is too short to spend it refinishing doors every few
years.

FWIW, I've never seen a painted house that didn't need repainted every 5
or so years.

If it's painted fresh on new wood with good materials the paint should
last a long time. When, as is typically done, the old paint is given a
lick and a promise and then the new stuff is put on top of it, the old
continues to deteriorate.

On 3/1/11 6:50 AM, dadiOH wrote:
-MIKE- wrote:
On 2/28/11 5:21 PM, Larry Kraus wrote:

My understanding and experience is that any clear finish on wood has
a relatively short exterior life span. UV rays (direct or reflected)
degrade the wood surface through the finish, and the finish has
nothing to cling to. Additives for UV resistance may slow the damage
but it still occurs. If you can see the wood, the light is breaking
down the surface. Personally, if it is outside, I feel wood should
be painted. Life is too short to spend it refinishing doors every
few years.

FWIW, I've never seen a painted house that didn't need repainted
every 5 or so years.

I just had mine painted last summer. The old paint was mostly good but had
faded. It had been there 15 years.


Hmmmm.... maybe I'll paint.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On Mar 1, 10:47*am, -MIKE- wrote:

Hmmmm.... maybe I'll paint.

Mike - you seem pretty opened minded, and a pretty sincere craftsman.
This is my opinion, so take it for what it is worth.

I had a contract with a company here in town, and probably removed and
replaced about 250 doors for them before we got tired of each other.
But finishing is something I have done for years, doors included
before my contract with the door supplier I hooked up with, and I can
tell you what I have observed.

Poor finishing, clear, semi transparent or anything else, yields just
that; a poor finish. Paint, ditto.

90% of finishing is in the prep, not in the application. Nor in my
opinion is it in the finishing material. Most quality finishes you
buy these days are quite good, and people mistakenly blame crappy
results on a product instead of themselves. In a pinch, I have used
Minwax OIL (no water based ANYTHING except paint for me!) with
excellent results. Same with other brands that make others here spit
with disgust when their names are mentioned.

Clear finishes will not protect wood (tip of hat to you, Mike!) as
well as paint. Mike refers to a system of finishing where the top
coat of urethane is an integral component of the paint job. Today's
auto paints are formulated and need that top coat. Auto finishes are
not abrasive resistant as most oil based wood finishes, nor are they
as easily applied by the average guy, but for their purpose they are
excellent. (Remember, you can't put on auto urethane with a foam
brush!)

NOTHING protects wood as well as a completely opaque finish. UV
modified clear finishes with all manner of voodoo in them are great
for a few years, but don't last as well as an alkyd finish. I have
refinished a few hundred doors, and and found that to be true.

The old oil based stuff used to last for years, but has been replaced
by latex. Most people are just too lazy to put on oil, and are afraid
of its application. If you have the type of doors I am envisioning,
you can brush or spray alkyd on them easily. With a 2 hour layout
time, not too much to worry about with brush strokes if you brush, and
today's alkyds spray very easily.

You know I will give my usual opinion; if the current surface is
damage, strip the wood, clean it and sand it before application of
anything.

If you spray, prime first with BIN. I use that on doors and cabinets
as it is ready to coat in an hour with paint. Three coats of alkyd
will last for years. Sherwin Williams makes some great stuff, as does
Benjamin Moore.

FWIW, I have never seen any type of epoxy resin finish hold up in
EXTERIOR use. Interior, fine. But on an exterior application, the
theory among my finishing buddies is that the wood and resin move at
different temperatures, and at different amounts. It seems to work OK
in the shade, but not in direct sunlight. But remember, if just a
small percent of the light gets through (UV resistant, not UV
impermeable!) the clear coat, the problem starts with degrading the
wood.

I like clear finishes, though. My solution from time to time where
the bottom of the door is the only thing facing direct sunlight is to
clear coat the door with UV resistant finish, then cover the bottom of
the door with a big brass or nickel kick plate to cover previous
damage and to help protect from future. It isn't a fix, but it stops
the cracking and hides the discoloration of the damaged wood. It also
covers any repairs I might need to make to save the door.

As always, just my 0.02.

Robert

On 3/1/11 1:50 PM, wrote:
On Mar 1, 10:47 am, wrote:

Hmmmm.... maybe I'll paint.

Mike - you seem pretty opened minded, and a pretty sincere craftsman.
This is my opinion, so take it for what it is worth.


Thank you. My above comment was sincere, not sarcastic.


I had a contract with a company here in town, and probably removed and
replaced about 250 doors for them before we got tired of each other.
But finishing is something I have done for years, doors included
before my contract with the door supplier I hooked up with, and I can
tell you what I have observed.

Poor finishing, clear, semi transparent or anything else, yields just
that; a poor finish. Paint, ditto.

90% of finishing is in the prep, not in the application. Nor in my
opinion is it in the finishing material. Most quality finishes you
buy these days are quite good, and people mistakenly blame crappy
results on a product instead of themselves.

I hate painting, but people always ask me about it because I'm "that
guy" who always does everything. I tell them all the time that the
paint is the cheapest part of painting, and the painting is the easiest
part. So I know where you're coming from.


In a pinch, I have used
Minwax OIL (no water based ANYTHING except paint for me!) with
excellent results. Same with other brands that make others here spit
with disgust when their names are mentioned.

Clear finishes will not protect wood (tip of hat to you, Mike!) as
well as paint. Mike refers to a system of finishing where the top
coat of urethane is an integral component of the paint job. Today's
auto paints are formulated and need that top coat. Auto finishes are
not abrasive resistant as most oil based wood finishes, nor are they
as easily applied by the average guy, but for their purpose they are
excellent. (Remember, you can't put on auto urethane with a foam
brush!)

NOTHING protects wood as well as a completely opaque finish. UV
modified clear finishes with all manner of voodoo in them are great
for a few years, but don't last as well as an alkyd finish. I have
refinished a few hundred doors, and and found that to be true.

The old oil based stuff used to last for years, but has been replaced
by latex. Most people are just too lazy to put on oil, and are afraid
of its application. If you have the type of doors I am envisioning,
you can brush or spray alkyd on them easily. With a 2 hour layout
time, not too much to worry about with brush strokes if you brush, and
today's alkyds spray very easily.

You know I will give my usual opinion; if the current surface is
damage, strip the wood, clean it and sand it before application of
anything.

If you spray, prime first with BIN. I use that on doors and cabinets
as it is ready to coat in an hour with paint.

This?
http://www.rustoleum.com/CBGProduct.asp?pid=216


Three coats of alkyd
will last for years. Sherwin Williams makes some great stuff, as does
Benjamin Moore.

FWIW, I have never seen any type of epoxy resin finish hold up in
EXTERIOR use. Interior, fine. But on an exterior application, the
theory among my finishing buddies is that the wood and resin move at
different temperatures, and at different amounts. It seems to work OK
in the shade, but not in direct sunlight. But remember, if just a
small percent of the light gets through (UV resistant, not UV
impermeable!) the clear coat, the problem starts with degrading the
wood.

I like clear finishes, though. My solution from time to time where
the bottom of the door is the only thing facing direct sunlight is to
clear coat the door with UV resistant finish, then cover the bottom of
the door with a big brass or nickel kick plate to cover previous
damage and to help protect from future. It isn't a fix, but it stops
the cracking and hides the discoloration of the damaged wood. It also
covers any repairs I might need to make to save the door.

As always, just my 0.02.

Robert

Thanks for such a thought out and well presented reply.
Great info.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On Mar 1, 2:24*pm, -MIKE- wrote:

I hate painting, but people always ask me about it because I'm "that
guy" who always does everything. *I tell them all the time that the
paint is the cheapest part of painting, and the painting is the easiest
part. *So I know where you're coming from.

Absolutely true. The paint is nothing, nor is any finish that you
apply if you prep right.

The last kitchen I did, I refinished all the cabinets in the kitchen,
as well as the island. It took me almost two weeks of prep, and the
client was getting very impatient.

However, they were astonished that I got one coat of primer (BIN) on
everything in one day, as well as one coat of finish. I put two more
coats on everything the next day and was easily finished in 8 hours.
That is cabinets inside and out, 24 or so doors, and I think 12
drawers, a wall mounted display rack, and an island with bead board
sprayed white to match the cabinets.

Most folks don't understand that the application (good or bad!) is the
quickest part of the project.

The super hot finishes like I use take a lot of practice, but most of
the finishes out there today yield very good results by just following
the instructions.

This? http://www.rustoleum.com/CBGProduct.asp?pid=216

That's the juice! Since it is a pigmented shellac, don't plan on
brushing it unless you are comfortable brushing shellac.

That stuff sprays like a dream; on a 65 degree day, you won't need to
thin, mix in thinner (anhydrous alcohol) or do anything else but stir
it and put it in your paint cup. I would suggest a 1.4mm tip if you
are spraying, as I have had great results in my guns with that size.

BIN can be a strangely high build finish, too. I have used it as an
"almost" pore filler, and built up 2-3 heavy coats on oak, and it will
partially fill the tubules. It will certainly close them off, so you
can paint without the all the pin holes. Real oak retains that
woodgrain texture and looks like that plastic trim we used to buy that
had the woodgrain cast into it.

Clients like it as they can still see some of their woodgrain so it
doesn't look like particle board or colored melamine.

As far as coatings go, I have used this stuff before, but am a fan of
Coronado (a regional manufacturer) products. However, most of my
painting buddies use this with great results out of their spray
setup. They also claim it brushes very well, too.

http://preview.tinyurl.com/4jpzeqa

Sherwin Williams makes an equivalent, and it is quite good as well.

Thanks for such a thought out and well presented reply.
Great info.

Anytime, just glad to help. I enjoy reading a few of the posters that
frequent here, and you are certainly one of them.

Robert

On Mar 2, 5:40*am, "dadiOH" wrote:

Good stuff but it is meant for interior use; however, Zinsser makes a slew
of others. *I've pretty much settled on 1-2-3 for
everything...applies/flows/covers well, drys quickly and sands well.http://www.rustoleum.com/CBGProduct.asp?pid=419

I just don't care for water based stain killers/blockers or primers.
They don't dry fast enough or hard enough for me. Since I use oil
based enamels, I don't like to put a hard resin over a soft latex
product. I only use water borne on sheetrock prep for repaints
because I will be putting latex on over it.

If I have heavy staining, knot bleeding, or other issues besides a
simple priming on fairly clean wood, this is my preference:

http://www.rustoleum.com/CBGProduct.asp?pid=222

Another excellent product, it works as advertised. It doesn't spray
out as smoothly as the first one I recommended due to its higher solid
content, but it is close. While it says it is for "spot exterior
use", it works fine for ext. doors, trims, cabinetry, etc.

The best thing about the BIN for me is that when it all works
correctly, you don't have to sand before applying your top coats.

Spray your BIN on a large cabinet and drawers, clean the gun, go have
lunch. Come back, start finish coat applications. Not spray your
primer, wait until it is hard enough to sand, sand the project all
over again to scuff it up, wipe out with a damp rag, blow it/vacuum
it, let it dry 100% (since water based finishes are inherently more
porous), then start to apply the topcoats.

Think of the time you save with no sanding. Add on the fact you don't
have to clean the cabinet thoroughly to get any dust you will kick up
when spraying. Think of maintaining your clean finishing environment
because you didn't raise any dust in the air from sanding or
cleaning.

Even if you shuttle cabinets, doors, or whatever you are finishing
around from place to place to keep the dust down, that still requires
the processes required from sanding, but now with added project
handling. There is nothing like moving cabinets around in the
different stages of finish only to drop one... or an entry door....
yikes! Drop it and it is toast.

Everyone has their favorite processes, and I think as long as the end
product is satisfactory, it is important to use the ones you are
comfortable in using. For me personally, I try to use the best
technology that yields the best finish at the fastest pace.

As comment on that, I still have a colleague (read: another beer
drinking contractor) that used the BM product I referenced above to
repaint kitchen cabinets. He doesn't spray... he hand brushes! He
has one guy that does the most beautiful job on doors you have ever
seen.

They look sprayed; my brush work isn't that good, nor is my buddy's.
We can't figure out what he does, but his flatwork turns out like
glass. (In the cruel revenge of Karma, he can't cut a straight line
to save his ass!) My buddy won't spray as he doesn't have a good
spray guy, he won't invest in the equipment, tried it himself and
can't get the hang of mixing and gun adjustment, and is convinced that
the time it takes to isolate and tape off a room is more time than it
is worth.

On occasion he has paid me to spray metal exterior doors with enamels,
cabinet doors and drawer fronts for him, but he still brushes the rest
of a kitchen job. It all works out... he is an older fella with a lot
of older clients. Since he peddles that hand brushed business as
"things done the old way, the right way" he does indeed get his
price. Routinely, he gets about 15% or more than I do for the same
job. No reason for him to change, right?

Just a little additional commentary on the subject.

Robert

On Mar 2, 4:03*pm, "dadiOH" wrote:

They look sprayed; my brush work isn't that good, nor is my buddy's.
We can't figure out what he does, but his flatwork turns out like
glass.

While you and his boss are out drinking beer he hauls in a sprayer *

Damnit... I laughed so hard when I read that I almost spewed out my
iced tea!

I will be sure and pass that on to my "colleague", Bill. He'll get a
bang out of it too!

Seriously; you know how it look like you are doing the exact same
thing someone else is doing and yet you get different results? That's
me with oils. I am OK on small pieces, crown and trims, and flat
panels when using a brush. But this guy can give me a complex.
Raised six panel wood doors in a house? No problem. One Marlboro
and a 1/2 cup of coffee a door. Worse, (or at least more frustrating
to me) this guy is fast.

So one day when visiting my buddy's job site a while back, I ran into
this guy and he was cleaning brushes at around 2:00 pm. We chatted a
bit as I thought he was just changing colors or needed a quick clean.
Nope, he was going home. I was pretty dumbstruck, and thought
something was wrong at the home front. Nope, again. The rest of the
job needed to be sprayed, and that wasn't his job. He did the cab
interiors along with the rails and stiles in the kitchen and bath and
that was it. Aren't you going to spray the doors and drawers, I
asked? No he wasn't. That wasn't his job. He told me he never
"learned" the spray rig (except for an airless) and didn't understand
all the knobs and stuff on the gun. And no clue at all about
thinning, patterns, tips or anything else. He thinks being a spray
man is a subset of being a painter, but not the same thing.

Apparently he and his pals decided to spray a truck, and it was a
disaster, and an expensive one at that. After that happened, no more
sprayer. Ever. I told him I could walk him through the basics and
even had a old gun he could use to practice his skills. He wasn't
even remotely interested.

I actually think he really enjoys being the king of handwork, and if
everyone knew he couldn't spray it would be too embarrassing. So he
stays the king of what he knows. I was REALLY looking forward to
ragging on him for his lack of spray skills, but I won't ever get to
see them.

Thanks... I am *still* chuckling over here....

Robert