On Jan 21, 1:01*pm, Larry Jaques
wrote:

But even if I had the money for a new Sawstop, I don't think I'd buy
one because of the principle. I don't want to knowingly feed greed and
arrogance, wherever they exist, if I can possibly help it.

In my 35+ years in construction, I have known many like you.

It gives me great pleasure to see them all manner of injuries large
and small that could have been easily prevented if they had used
available safety equipment.

Their injuries, especially the serious ones, are a visible testimony
to their commitment to their pride and sense of righteousness.

Go get 'em Larry!

Robert

With some thinking a 3.25" nailgun won't fire a nail out of the nailgun more
than 2", it's no wonder we have these stupid accidents.


wrote in message
...
In my 35+ years in construction, I have known many like you.

It gives me great pleasure to see them all manner of injuries large
and small that could have been easily prevented if they had used
available safety equipment.

Their injuries, especially the serious ones, are a visible testimony
to their commitment to their pride and sense of righteousness.

Go get 'em Larry!

Robert

Robatoy wrote in
:


I watched that Tony MacDonald wood thing on PBS for the first time, in
HD no less. ( and likely last time as it is too Dane Cook without any
humour...just a little too slick and overproduced.)
I'm thinking that's a Sawstop he's got there AND a big stack of
Festools.
And why not? Sawstop is THE saw to own and use. I'd have one in a
heartbeat.
I wonder where Tony is going to park his TimeSaver?


Yes, that's a Sawstop there. I sure wouldn't mind having one myself,
especially if they'd include a nice large outfeed table kit for the
price. I know outfeed tables aren't difficult to build... but I've got a
servicable solution that works, it's just not as nice as I'd like.

Btw, it's Tommy.

He's got something better than Festools. A good shop assistant he can
let do the boring stuff while he does the fun stuff. lol

Puckdropper

On 1/21/11 3:03 PM, Josepi wrote:
With some thinking a 3.25" nailgun won't fire a nail out of the nailgun more
than 2", it's no wonder we have these stupid accidents.


You sure are a glutton for punishment, aren't you.

I believe your actual delusion was that said nailgun could inflict
bodily injury at a range of 1/4 mile. It's still bull$h!t, btw.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On Jan 21, 12:45*pm, "CW" wrote:
"Robatoy" wrote in message

...
On Jan 21, 8:23 am, "Upscale" wrote:

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
I'd choose the saw which didn't have the asshole attorney attached to
it, the Whirlwind licensed machine, of course.

And when you cut something off, some asshole attorney is going to be your
painful best friend.

How so?

Whyfor art thou quoting moi?

In article , Bill wrote:

I don't yet have a TS, but I intuitively keep my hands away from things
spinning at 4000 RPM. A normal blade guard appears to offer "good"
protection. I will increase my level of protection when it's cost is
more modest. Until then I will exercise due caution--like I do when I
use my chain saw. Seems like a chain saw is more dangerous, no?

Just my humble opinion here... ummm, yah! By an order of magnitude, probably.

At
least the TS blade is fixed in 2 dimensions. I am watching the
technology, and this discussion, with interest.

Bill

In article , Larry Jaques wrote:

I'd like to see the engineering figures on just what that extra 114
milliseconds of time means in the travel of the blade.

Easy enough to calculate. Assume rotational speed of 3600 rpm = 60 revolutions
per second. 114 ms * 60 revolutions = 6.84 complete revolutions of the blade.
If it's a 40-tooth blade, that means 274 teeth. That's a lot of cutting.
That's a lot of ouch, and a lot of damage, if the object being cut is your
finger.

SawStop reacts in, what? 3 ms?

In article , wrote:
On 1/21/11 3:03 PM, Josepi wrote:
With some thinking a 3.25" nailgun won't fire a nail out of the nailgun more
than 2", it's no wonder we have these stupid accidents.


You sure are a glutton for punishment, aren't you.

I believe your actual delusion was that said nailgun could inflict
bodily injury at a range of 1/4 mile. It's still bull$h!t, btw.

No, his delusion was that he could *see* the nail at 1/4 mile. But still
bull$h!t.

Bill wrote in
:


Just curious, does anyone else share this experience/point of
view--that blade guards are unsafe due to a greater likelihood of
small pieces being thrown?

Bill


During certain types of cuts, the blade guard can make things more
dangerous. For example, cuts that do not have enough of an offcut to
support the blade guard on the off cut side. Once the cut is complete,
there's a piece trapped between the guard and blade. Even worse if the
offcut is trapped between antikickback pawls and the blade.

With every safety device, there's operations that it makes safer and
operations it makes more dangerous. It doesn't mean the device is useless,
it just means it needs to be removed for certain operations.

Puckdropper

On 1/21/11 3:54 PM, Doug Miller wrote:
In , wrote:
On 1/21/11 3:03 PM, Josepi wrote:
With some thinking a 3.25" nailgun won't fire a nail out of the nailgun more
than 2", it's no wonder we have these stupid accidents.


You sure are a glutton for punishment, aren't you.

I believe your actual delusion was that said nailgun could inflict
bodily injury at a range of 1/4 mile. It's still bull$h!t, btw.

No, his delusion was that he could *see* the nail at 1/4 mile. But still
bull$h!t.

They're both bull. He wouldn't see it, nor would it be there to be seen.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

"-MIKE-" wrote

On 1/21/11 1:28 PM, Max wrote:
And *I* wouldn't buy one because when the time comes that my common
sense, agility, and attention to safety factors are so badly
deteriorated that I feel the need for the device I will discontinue
using a table saw.

Max

Yeah, because no one has ever followed safety procedures and still gotten
injured.


--

-MIKE-


I'm a one man shop, Mike. I can't speak for anyone but myself. I bought my
first table saw in 1968.
I have a very close relationship with my body parts so I don't treat them
recklessly.
I'm highly satisfied with the table saw I have and I can't see replacing it
with one that just might out of some rare and unfortunate confluence of
circumstances, significantly damage itself. YMMV.
Please be careful.

Max

To Upscale, I apologize if you are already aware of or using this solution,
but you know, it would be easy to modify a conventional style contractor
saw to be 10 or 12 inches lower.


--
Make it as simple as possible, but not simpler. (Albert Einstein)

Larry Wasserman - Baltimore Maryland - lwasserm(a)sdf. lonestar. org

In article ,
Leon wrote:

"Larry Jaques" wrote:
...other stuff snipped...

I'd choose the saw which didn't have the asshole attorney attached to
it, the Whirlwind licensed machine, of course.

OK, I'll go with the SawStop. Now we are going to shove our hands up under
the guard as fast as we can like we are playing hand ball. We'll see who
has the bigger cut. Better yet, you can do yours with your saw turned off,
I'll let the SawStop run to give you an advantage, maybe.

IIRC the Whirlwind blade simply stops, the speed of your hand will probably
produce a pretty good cut when it hits that stationary blade. The SawStop
blade of course instantly stops spinning AND drops below the table.

A- hole attorney or not, I am going with what offers ME the most protection.

The Whirlwind will make all of this type technology become more reasonably
priced but so far it's a "me too" that does not offer the same amount of
protection.

I see pros and cons to both the Sawstop and the Whirlwind designs, I'll
leave that decision to their potential buyers. But in fairness, if the
Sawstop is NOT running, it's blade won't drop either. I don't see either
having an advantage when it comes to contact with a stationary blade.


--
Make it as simple as possible, but not simpler. (Albert Einstein)

Larry Wasserman - Baltimore Maryland - lwasserm(a)sdf. lonestar. org

"Bill" wrote in message
...
Just curious, does anyone else share this experience/point of view--that
blade guards are unsafe due to a greater likelihood of small pieces being
thrown?

Yes, and it forces you to use unsafe proceders.

On Fri, 21 Jan 2011 21:53:09 +0000, Doug Miller wrote:

SawStop reacts in, what? 3 ms?

They claim 5.

--
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw

Larry W wrote:

I see pros and cons to both the Sawstop and the Whirlwind designs, I'll
leave that decision to their potential buyers. But in fairness, if the
Sawstop is NOT running, it's blade won't drop either. I don't see either
having an advantage when it comes to contact with a stationary blade.

I don't see either having an advantage either if you drop the blade on
your foot on the way to the saw...that covers the case where the blade
is not stationary.

On 1/21/11 5:35 PM, Max wrote:
"-MIKE-" wrote

On 1/21/11 1:28 PM, Max wrote:
And *I* wouldn't buy one because when the time comes that my common
sense, agility, and attention to safety factors are so badly
deteriorated that I feel the need for the device I will discontinue
using a table saw.

Max

Yeah, because no one has ever followed safety procedures and still
gotten injured.


--

-MIKE-


I'm a one man shop, Mike. I can't speak for anyone but myself. I bought
my first table saw in 1968.
I have a very close relationship with my body parts so I don't treat
them recklessly.
I'm highly satisfied with the table saw I have and I can't see replacing
it with one that just might out of some rare and unfortunate confluence
of circumstances, significantly damage itself. YMMV.
Please be careful.

Max


No one trying to convince you to replace it.
But to say or imply that you won't ever get hurt if you just follow
safety procedures is nonsense.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

CW wrote:
wrote in message
...
Just curious, does anyone else share this experience/point of view--that
blade guards are unsafe due to a greater likelihood of small pieces being
thrown?

Yes, and it forces you to use unsafe proceders.


This almost like a good place to ask a question which has been on my
mind. According to Grizzly's web site, Grizzly G0690 runs 4300 RPM,
Grizzly 1023RL runs 3450 RPM. Both are 3 HP. Is the higher speed
better for cutting "sheet goods", cutting faster, or just hurling small
pieces further? Although I've interjected a bit of humor, this is a
serious question. To keep it on topic, neither of these saws are
currently using SawStop's technology, but I think I would consider it an
advantage if they did.

Bill

On 1/21/11 6:03 PM, Larry W wrote:
In articleT_idneE6G4_BM6TQnZ2dnUVZ5sCdnZ2d@giganews. com,
wrote:

"Larry wrote:
...other stuff snipped...

I'd choose the saw which didn't have the asshole attorney attached to
it, the Whirlwind licensed machine, of course.

OK, I'll go with the SawStop. Now we are going to shove our hands up under
the guard as fast as we can like we are playing hand ball. We'll see who
has the bigger cut. Better yet, you can do yours with your saw turned off,
I'll let the SawStop run to give you an advantage, maybe.

IIRC the Whirlwind blade simply stops, the speed of your hand will probably
produce a pretty good cut when it hits that stationary blade. The SawStop
blade of course instantly stops spinning AND drops below the table.

A- hole attorney or not, I am going with what offers ME the most protection.

The Whirlwind will make all of this type technology become more reasonably
priced but so far it's a "me too" that does not offer the same amount of
protection.

I see pros and cons to both the Sawstop and the Whirlwind designs, I'll
leave that decision to their potential buyers. But in fairness, if the
Sawstop is NOT running, it's blade won't drop either. I don't see either
having an advantage when it comes to contact with a stationary blade.



I don't see many pros with that whirlwind thing.
It brakes the blade (rather slowly, IMO) when it senses human digits
under the saw guard. I'm sorry, but one main purpose of a saw guard is
to tell you, "Hey, don't put your hands here!" If you run your hands
under a saw guard and your own brain doesn't warn you, then you should
lose part of a finger as a life lesson. :-)

What that whirlwind won't stop, is a hand slip (from whatever cause)
into the blade. For that reason, and the fact that it has a giant
attachment arm on it, and it only works with the guard, it is worthless.

I think if this thing had come along *before* the sawstop, people would
be blown away by it. But now, it's the equivalent of inventing the CB
radio after the cell phone.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

wrote in message
...
On Jan 21, 1:01 pm, Larry Jaques
wrote:

But even if I had the money for a new Sawstop, I don't think I'd buy
one because of the principle. I don't want to knowingly feed greed and
arrogance, wherever they exist, if I can possibly help it.

In my 35+ years in construction, I have known many like you.

It gives me great pleasure to see them all manner of injuries large
and small that could have been easily prevented if they had used
available safety equipment.

Their injuries, especially the serious ones, are a visible testimony
to their commitment to their pride and sense of righteousness.

Go get 'em Larry!

I have, for the last 25 years, been working with machinery, 40 to 70 hours a
week, that could rip my arm off or worse. The damage they could do would
make a tablesaw injury seem like a paper cut. I have never so much as lost
any skin. Your construction anecdote is not even relevent as far as I'm
concerned. Different situation entirely. On the average construction site
you have a large number of, if not the majority of, guys that have IQs just
a bit higher than a 2x4. All in a hurry and most never having been trained
in safe working proceders.

"Bill" wrote in message
Yes, but I would not leave an edge. You seem to be working well with a
benchtop TS, no? I commend you for your devotion to the craft.

When needed, I use a contractors saw that resides in a friend's garage. I
trimmed about 5" off the legs of the saw after I wound up in the wheelchair.
It's not perfect, but it does fine with the aftermarket Excalibur saw guide
I added to it.

"Robatoy" wrote in message
...
On Jan 21, 12:45 pm, "CW" wrote:
"Robatoy" wrote in message

...
On Jan 21, 8:23 am, "Upscale" wrote:

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
I'd choose the saw which didn't have the asshole attorney attached to
it, the Whirlwind licensed machine, of course.

And when you cut something off, some asshole attorney is going to be
your
painful best friend.

How so?

Whyfor art thou quoting moi?

Sorry about that Rob. Inacurate snipping. got the wrong Canadian.

"Bill" wrote in message
If it was a 20 by 24 foot garage like I have now, it may be plausable. If
fact, entering from the kitchen, where there are currently two steps, and
you would already be 12 inches above the ground (concrete).

It all boils down to feeling comfortable and safe when using your equipment.
*Anything* is doable if one is willing to put up with some aggravations. For
me, a raised floor is not one of those things. It's been considered and
discarded as being too problematic, especially when there is an excellent
quality lowered saw already available on the market. Unfortunately, that's
not a Sawstop. Maybe some time in the future with additional technology,
patents expiring, etcetera, a Sawstop add-on might become available. Until
then, I'll be careful with the tools that don't make me feel excessively
nervous to use.

"Bill" wrote in message
...
CW wrote:
wrote in message
...
Just curious, does anyone else share this experience/point of view--that
blade guards are unsafe due to a greater likelihood of small pieces
being
thrown?

Yes, and it forces you to use unsafe proceders.


This almost like a good place to ask a question which has been on my mind.
According to Grizzly's web site, Grizzly G0690 runs 4300 RPM, Grizzly
1023RL runs 3450 RPM. Both are 3 HP. Is the higher speed better for
cutting "sheet goods", cutting faster, or just hurling small pieces
further? Although I've interjected a bit of humor, this is a serious
question. To keep it on topic, neither of these saws are currently using
SawStop's technology, but I think I would consider it an advantage if they
did.

Bill


Assuming the same chip load and same number of teeth on the blade the faster
blade will cut faster.

"-MIKE-" wrote in message
You're using a lousy push stick that breaks or slips on sawdust, whoosh!
You're feeding stock, your dog jumps on your back because you didn't put
him on a leash and he's not don't playing. (real life scenario... I'm
not working with that guy anymore)

Sure, all of that is possible, just not a likely scenario in a realistic
world. In the past, we've heard from physicians and emergency personal when
it comes to a tablesaw. And almost without exception, those incidents of
digits being chopped off have been when someone was using a saw with the
guard removed. When it comes to slipping and falling, you're much more
likely to fall in front of a bus than to fall or slip at the required angle
to slide one's hand or arm under an installed and properly operating blade
guard.

"Bill" wrote in message
...
CW wrote:
wrote in message
...
Just curious, does anyone else share this experience/point of view--that
blade guards are unsafe due to a greater likelihood of small pieces
being
thrown?

Yes, and it forces you to use unsafe proceders.


This almost like a good place to ask a question which has been on my mind.
According to Grizzly's web site, Grizzly G0690 runs 4300 RPM, Grizzly
1023RL runs 3450 RPM. Both are 3 HP. Is the higher speed better for
cutting "sheet goods", cutting faster, or just hurling small pieces
further? Although I've interjected a bit of humor, this is a serious
question. To keep it on topic, neither of these saws are currently using
SawStop's technology, but I think I would consider it an advantage if they
did.

Bill


The faster RPM will equate to a faster and smoother cut. BUT it can also
equate to a burned cut if feed rate is slower than average.

"Upscale" wrote in message
...

"Bill" wrote in message
If it was a 20 by 24 foot garage like I have now, it may be plausable. If
fact, entering from the kitchen, where there are currently two steps, and
you would already be 12 inches above the ground (concrete).

It all boils down to feeling comfortable and safe when using your
equipment. *Anything* is doable if one is willing to put up with some
aggravations. For me, a raised floor is not one of those things. It's been
considered and discarded as being too problematic, especially when there
is an excellent quality lowered saw already available on the market.
Unfortunately, that's not a Sawstop. Maybe some time in the future with
additional technology, patents expiring, etcetera, a Sawstop add-on might
become available. Until then, I'll be careful with the tools that don't
make me feel excessively nervous to use.




Good attitude. If it doesn't feel safe, don't do it. You retain many more
body parts that way.

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 21 Jan 2011 10:03:38 -0600, "Leon"
wrote:
Snip


But even if I had the money for a new Sawstop, I don't think I'd buy
one because of the principle. I don't want to knowingly feed greed and
arrogance, wherever they exist, if I can possibly help it.


And yet you continue to live and participate in a capitalistic society....

"Max" wrote in message
b.com...
"Larry Jaques" wrote

But even if I had the money for a new Sawstop, I don't think I'd buy
one because of the principle. I don't want to knowingly feed greed and
arrogance, wherever they exist, if I can possibly help it.



And *I* wouldn't buy one because when the time comes that my common sense,
agility, and attention to safety factors are so badly deteriorated that I
feel the need for the device I will discontinue using a table saw.

Max

Max, you are already there if you really believe that common sense, agiaity,
and or attention to safety factors will protect you. There will be new
safety rules written in the future for the accidents that are less common
and of which you have not yet heard about. Imagine my suprise 22 years ago
when I thought and worked the same way and cut half my left thumb off and
the TS was not turned on. I still have not seen a safety rule written to
prevent the accident that I had.

"Larry W" wrote in message
...
To Upscale, I apologize if you are already aware of or using this
solution,

No need to apologize Larry. You're just offering up possible solutions. The
fact that it's been discussed before is irrelevent. Sooner or later, someone
will come up with a solution or suggestion that hasn't been mentioned
before. Even the General Tools lowered Access line of tools has only been on
the market for three years and that was only because I contacted them to see
what modifications could be done to one of their tablesaws.

but you know, it would be easy to modify a conventional style contractor
saw to be 10 or 12 inches lower.

Contractor's saw already modified and in use. Someday, I'll find a suitable
and accessible workshop to share or rent and then I'll be off to buy a
lowered cabinet saw before you can blink.

On Jan 21, 8:24*pm, "Upscale" wrote:
"Bill" wrote in message
If it was a 20 by 24 foot garage like I have now, it may be plausable. If
fact, entering from the kitchen, where there are currently two steps, and
you would already be 12 inches above the ground (concrete).

It all boils down to feeling comfortable and safe when using your equipment.

On 1/21/2011 6:03 PM, Larry W wrote:
I see pros and cons to both the Sawstop and the Whirlwind designs, I'll
leave that decision to their potential buyers. But in fairness, if the
Sawstop is NOT running, it's blade won't drop either. I don't see either
having an advantage when it comes to contact with a stationary blade.

I make it a habit of lowering the blade beneath the table when I'm finished
using the saw. I do the same thing with the router table.

--
See Nad. See Nad go. Go Nad!
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/

"CW" wrote in message
m...

wrote in message
...
On Jan 21, 1:01 pm, Larry Jaques
wrote:

But even if I had the money for a new Sawstop, I don't think I'd buy
one because of the principle. I don't want to knowingly feed greed and
arrogance, wherever they exist, if I can possibly help it.

In my 35+ years in construction, I have known many like you.

It gives me great pleasure to see them all manner of injuries large
and small that could have been easily prevented if they had used
available safety equipment.

Their injuries, especially the serious ones, are a visible testimony
to their commitment to their pride and sense of righteousness.

Go get 'em Larry!

I have, for the last 25 years, been working with machinery, 40 to 70 hours
a week, that could rip my arm off or worse. The damage they could do would
make a tablesaw injury seem like a paper cut. I have never so much as lost
any skin. Your construction anecdote is not even relevent as far as I'm
concerned. Different situation entirely. On the average construction site
you have a large number of, if not the majority of, guys that have IQs
just a bit higher than a 2x4. All in a hurry and most never having been
trained in safe working proceders.

Those early Apollo crew members that were burned up in their capsule during
testing,,,I think they were pretty well educated and trained.

"Larry Blanchard" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 21 Jan 2011 21:53:09 +0000, Doug Miller wrote:

SawStop reacts in, what? 3 ms?

They claim 5.


Definately less than 5, I watched the video with my stop watch and timed
the reaction time of the blade.

;~)

"-MIKE-" wrote in message
...
On 1/21/11 6:03 PM, Larry W wrote:

I think if this thing had come along *before* the sawstop, people would
be blown away by it. But now, it's the equivalent of inventing the CB
radio after the cell phone.


I had a similar thought earlier today, on a scale of 1 to 10 with the common
blade guard being 1 and the Saw Stop being a 10, I place the Whirlwind at
about a 3.

BUT that is not to say that I discourage the Whirlwind people from improving
their product, it is not a game. I would love to see it out perform the
SawStop rather than be a little better than nothing and or the common guard.
They have a ways to go. As it is now it is an answer to the saws already
out there now that don't have this technonogy.

On 1/21/11 7:31 PM, Upscale wrote:
wrote in message
You're using a lousy push stick that breaks or slips on sawdust, whoosh!
You're feeding stock, your dog jumps on your back because you didn't put
him on a leash and he's not don't playing. (real life scenario... I'm
not working with that guy anymore)

Sure, all of that is possible, just not a likely scenario in a realistic
world. In the past, we've heard from physicians and emergency personal when
it comes to a tablesaw. And almost without exception, those incidents of
digits being chopped off have been when someone was using a saw with the
guard removed. When it comes to slipping and falling, you're much more
likely to fall in front of a bus than to fall or slip at the required angle
to slide one's hand or arm under an installed and properly operating blade
guard.


I don't get it... I mean I get the part about people not using their
guards... but I'm talking about using the guard.

You're ripping a thin board, thinner.... like 2-3" inches wide, taking
off an inch. You're pushing the stock into the blade with your hand
directly in front of the blade, or off to the side an inch... sure
you're plenty far enough in front of the blade... so you think, until
something causes your to slip, your forward momentum causes your hand to
go forward. What kind of angle are we talking? 5 degrees?

That's not far fetched at all.
I've seen guys on TV using the same or worse technique.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

"Leon" wrote in message
...

"Max" wrote in message
b.com...
"Larry Jaques" wrote

But even if I had the money for a new Sawstop, I don't think I'd buy
one because of the principle. I don't want to knowingly feed greed and
arrogance, wherever they exist, if I can possibly help it.



And *I* wouldn't buy one because when the time comes that my common
sense, agility, and attention to safety factors are so badly deteriorated
that I feel the need for the device I will discontinue using a table saw.

Max

Max, you are already there if you really believe that common sense,
agiaity, and or attention to safety factors will protect you. There will
be new safety rules written in the future for the accidents that are less
common and of which you have not yet heard about. Imagine my suprise 22
years ago when I thought and worked the same way and cut half my left
thumb off and the TS was not turned on. I still have not seen a safety
rule written to prevent the accident that I had.

When you are done with a cut, crank the blade down below table height.

"Leon" wrote in message
...

"CW" wrote in message
m...

wrote in message
...
On Jan 21, 1:01 pm, Larry Jaques
wrote:

But even if I had the money for a new Sawstop, I don't think I'd buy
one because of the principle. I don't want to knowingly feed greed and
arrogance, wherever they exist, if I can possibly help it.

In my 35+ years in construction, I have known many like you.

It gives me great pleasure to see them all manner of injuries large
and small that could have been easily prevented if they had used
available safety equipment.

Their injuries, especially the serious ones, are a visible testimony
to their commitment to their pride and sense of righteousness.

Go get 'em Larry!

I have, for the last 25 years, been working with machinery, 40 to 70
hours a week, that could rip my arm off or worse. The damage they could
do would make a tablesaw injury seem like a paper cut. I have never so
much as lost any skin. Your construction anecdote is not even relevent as
far as I'm concerned. Different situation entirely. On the average
construction site you have a large number of, if not the majority of,
guys that have IQs just a bit higher than a 2x4. All in a hurry and most
never having been trained in safe working proceders.

Those early Apollo crew members that were burned up in their capsule
during testing,,,I think they were pretty well educated and trained.






Wasn't their fault either.

"Max" wrote:

And *I* wouldn't buy one because when the time comes that my common sense,
agility, and attention to safety factors are so badly deteriorated that I
feel the need for the device I will discontinue using a table saw.

Reminds me of when my son was a pre-teen and wouldn't wear a helmet or
other protective gear while rollerblading because he didn't plan to
fall! But as he grew up, he learned the meaning of "accident".
--
Alex -- Replace "nospam" with "mail" to reply by email. Checked infrequently.

"Leon" wrote

Max, you are already there if you really believe that common sense,
agiaity, and or attention to safety factors will protect you. There will
be new safety rules written in the future for the accidents that are less
common and of which you have not yet heard about. Imagine my suprise 22
years ago when I thought and worked the same way and cut half my left
thumb off and the TS was not turned on. I still have not seen a safety
rule written to prevent the accident that I had.

The saw wasn't turned on??? Then how would the SawStop have helped?
I'd be interested in learning about that accident. Seriously. As a
paramedic for several years, I saw a lot of accidents.
The worst accident I've had in the shop (in over forty years) was when I was
cutting a slim piece of plastic off the edge of a 2'X4' piece (for a
recessed fluorescent light)
I was using one of those notorious "razor" knives, utility knife, whatever.
I cut a nasty gash in my left thumb.
But I must confess to having had 3 beers on a hot afternoon. That was about
twenty years ago. Never again.
I perceive of a good many more potentials in the shop for accidents compared
to the likelihood of my contacting the moving blade on my table saw.
It's a question (to me) of priorities.
I have no doubt that the SawStop is a fine product. It might even end up
being a requirement by OSHA. It would certainly be a recommended item in a
woodworking school.
But considering the odds of me:
1. winning the lottery
2. pushing my finger into a spinning saw blade.
I choose to forego the expenditure.

Max