I am building kitchen cabinets using 3/4" oak plywood. I'm using dado
cuts into the side panels for the shelves. In a magazine i get, it
talks about using a biscuit joiner on cabinets. I've used biscuits to
attach faceframes to the box, but I've never tried using them to
attaches shelves to the side panels. Is this a feasable option? Can
biscuits hold the weight of heavy dishes on shelves? Most of the top
cabinets would probably get three biscuits on each end of the shelf.
If seems that there's not alot of wood to support the weight of the
shelf and the dishes.

Anybody try this before?

Rob

On Oct 22, 7:45*pm, rlz wrote:
I am building kitchen cabinets using 3/4" oak plywood. *I'm using dado
cuts into the side panels for the shelves. *In a magazine i get, it
talks about using a biscuit joiner on cabinets. *I've used biscuits to
attach faceframes to the box, but I've never tried using them to
attaches shelves to the side panels. *Is this a feasable option? *Can
biscuits hold the weight of heavy dishes on shelves? *Most of the top
cabinets would probably get three biscuits on each end of the shelf.
If seems that there's not alot of wood to support the weight of the
shelf and the dishes.

Anybody try this before?

Rob

If you're going to dado the shelves into the gables, there would be no
real reason to use biscuits there....imho.

On 10/22/10 6:52 PM, Robatoy wrote:
On Oct 22, 7:45 pm, wrote:
I am building kitchen cabinets using 3/4" oak plywood. I'm using dado
cuts into the side panels for the shelves. In a magazine i get, it
talks about using a biscuit joiner on cabinets. I've used biscuits to
attach faceframes to the box, but I've never tried using them to
attaches shelves to the side panels. Is this a feasable option? Can
biscuits hold the weight of heavy dishes on shelves? Most of the top
cabinets would probably get three biscuits on each end of the shelf.
If seems that there's not alot of wood to support the weight of the
shelf and the dishes.

Anybody try this before?

Rob

If you're going to dado the shelves into the gables, there would be no
real reason to use biscuits there....imho.


I agree, overkill. Use some pocket holes, too. :-)


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On Oct 22, 5:52*pm, Robatoy wrote:
On Oct 22, 7:45*pm, rlz wrote:

I am building kitchen cabinets using 3/4" oak plywood. *I'm using dado
cuts into the side panels for the shelves. *In a magazine i get, it
talks about using a biscuit joiner on cabinets. *I've used biscuits to
attach faceframes to the box, but I've never tried using them to
attaches shelves to the side panels. *Is this a feasable option? *Can
biscuits hold the weight of heavy dishes on shelves? *Most of the top
cabinets would probably get three biscuits on each end of the shelf.
If seems that there's not alot of wood to support the weight of the
shelf and the dishes.

Anybody try this before?

Rob

If you're going to dado the shelves into the gables, there would be no
real reason to use biscuits there....imho.

I was thinking of not dadoing the gables and just using biscuits on a
butt jount. Just concerned about the strength of the biscuits.

Rob

On 10/22/10 6:57 PM, rlz wrote:
On Oct 22, 5:52 pm, wrote:
On Oct 22, 7:45 pm, wrote:

I am building kitchen cabinets using 3/4" oak plywood. I'm using dado
cuts into the side panels for the shelves. In a magazine i get, it
talks about using a biscuit joiner on cabinets. I've used biscuits to
attach faceframes to the box, but I've never tried using them to
attaches shelves to the side panels. Is this a feasable option? Can
biscuits hold the weight of heavy dishes on shelves? Most of the top
cabinets would probably get three biscuits on each end of the shelf.
If seems that there's not alot of wood to support the weight of the
shelf and the dishes.

Anybody try this before?

Rob

If you're going to dado the shelves into the gables, there would be no
real reason to use biscuits there....imho.

I was thinking of not dadoing the gables and just using biscuits on a
butt jount. Just concerned about the strength of the biscuits.

Rob

I don't think biscuits were ever intended for support. They can certain
reinforce something like a corner butt joint on a frame, but never
anything like shelves.

Hardwood splines, glued in place would have the strength you're looking
for. However, with plywood, keep in mind that if you put splines in the
center, only half the plies will be holding the weight. Dadoes would be
the simplest and strongest option, imo.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 10/22/2010 6:57 PM, rlz wrote:

I was thinking of not dadoing the gables and just using biscuits on a
butt jount. Just concerned about the strength of the biscuits.

Frameless, or traditional face frame cabinets?

Contrary to conventional wisdom, and providing you use a sufficient
number, say every four evenly spaced biscuits on a 12" deep wall cabinet
with butt jointed shelves, properly glued biscuits will prove plenty
strong enough to support most kitchen cabinet shelf weights.

The question is why?

You will find that adjustable shelves make much more sense. Dadoing your
top and bottom "*floors", and making all intervening shelves adjustable
will give you much more flexibility in cabinet utilization and convenience.

(*in kitchen cabinet parlance, the top and bottom of the cabinet, since
they are usually the same dimension, are generally grouped in your
Cutlist as a "floor')

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)

"rlz" wrote in message
...
I am building kitchen cabinets using 3/4" oak plywood. I'm using dado
cuts into the side panels for the shelves. In a magazine i get, it
talks about using a biscuit joiner on cabinets. I've used biscuits to
attach faceframes to the box, but I've never tried using them to
attaches shelves to the side panels. Is this a feasable option? Can
biscuits hold the weight of heavy dishes on shelves? Most of the top
cabinets would probably get three biscuits on each end of the shelf.
If seems that there's not alot of wood to support the weight of the
shelf and the dishes.

Anybody try this before?

Rob


I just built a set of cabinets using 3/4" Oak. I prefer having adjustable
shelves so I used these:

http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?p...24398&pn=24398

I used pocket holes (and glue) to fasten the face frame to the carcase.
I used dadoes for the bottom shelf (base cabinets) and dadoes for the bottom
of the wall cabinets.
What span for the shelves? I found that 1/2" plywood was adequate for
shelves. I added a strip of 3/4 oak across the front of the shelves but it
was mainly to cover the edge of the plywood. It, of course, strengthened the
shelf as well.

Max

"rlz" wrote in message
...
I am building kitchen cabinets using 3/4" oak plywood. I'm using dado
cuts into the side panels for the shelves. In a magazine i get, it
talks about using a biscuit joiner on cabinets. I've used biscuits to
attach faceframes to the box, but I've never tried using them to
attaches shelves to the side panels. Is this a feasable option? Can
biscuits hold the weight of heavy dishes on shelves? Most of the top
cabinets would probably get three biscuits on each end of the shelf.
If seems that there's not alot of wood to support the weight of the
shelf and the dishes.

Anybody try this before?

Rob

I would never build a cabinet with permanent shelves. Put in rows of holes
to install shelf supports. Seems like when shelves are permanent the stuff
you are going to put in is just a little too tall or you need to stack
smaller items. Don't ask how I know this. (grin) WW

On Oct 22, 8:47*pm, Swingman wrote:

[snipped for brevity]

You will find that adjustable shelves make much more sense. Dadoing your
top and bottom

'nuff said.

On Oct 22, 4:45*pm, rlz wrote:
I am building kitchen cabinets ... using dado
cuts into the side panels for the shelves. *In a magazine i get, it
talks about using a biscuit joiner on cabinets. *I've used biscuits to
attach faceframes to the box, but I've never tried using them to
attaches shelves to the side panels.

I'd say, don't do it. The dado, especially if un-housed, shows only
a horizontal crevice, and crumbs wedged in won't spring the sides
or loosen the shelf. Use the biscuits to make deep shelves of
solid wood (better strength against sagging), instead.

Dado cuts are at least as easy as accurate biscuit placement in
a side panel.

On Fri, 22 Oct 2010 16:57:28 -0700 (PDT), rlz
wrote:

On Oct 22, 5:52*pm, Robatoy wrote:
On Oct 22, 7:45*pm, rlz wrote:

I am building kitchen cabinets using 3/4" oak plywood. *I'm using dado
cuts into the side panels for the shelves. *In a magazine i get, it
talks about using a biscuit joiner on cabinets. *I've used biscuits to
attach faceframes to the box, but I've never tried using them to
attaches shelves to the side panels. *Is this a feasable option? *Can
biscuits hold the weight of heavy dishes on shelves? *Most of the top
cabinets would probably get three biscuits on each end of the shelf.
If seems that there's not alot of wood to support the weight of the
shelf and the dishes.

Anybody try this before?

Rob

If you're going to dado the shelves into the gables, there would be no
real reason to use biscuits there....imho.

I was thinking of not dadoing the gables and just using biscuits on a
butt jount. Just concerned about the strength of the biscuits.

While biscuits are bloody strong, I don't think I'd chance it.

--
I am an old man, but in many senses a very young man.
And this is what I want you to be, young, young all
your life. -- Pablo Casals

"rlz" wrote in message
...
I am building kitchen cabinets using 3/4" oak plywood. I'm using dado
cuts into the side panels for the shelves. In a magazine i get, it
talks about using a biscuit joiner on cabinets. I've used biscuits to
attach faceframes to the box, but I've never tried using them to
attaches shelves to the side panels. Is this a feasable option? Can
biscuits hold the weight of heavy dishes on shelves? Most of the top
cabinets would probably get three biscuits on each end of the shelf.
If seems that there's not alot of wood to support the weight of the
shelf and the dishes.

Anybody try this before?

Rob


My current kitchen, that I built 20 years ago, I used biscuits to butt joint
shelves inside the cabinets. Still holding up fine.
But if you are going to dado the sides for the shelves to fit into there
would be absolutely no reason to also use biscuits.

On Oct 23, 4:28*pm, "Leon" wrote:
"rlz" wrote in message

...

I am building kitchen cabinets using 3/4" oak plywood. *I'm using dado
cuts into the side panels for the shelves. *In a magazine i get, it
talks about using a biscuit joiner on cabinets. *I've used biscuits to
attach faceframes to the box, but I've never tried using them to
attaches shelves to the side panels. *Is this a feasable option? *Can
biscuits hold the weight of heavy dishes on shelves? *Most of the top
cabinets would probably get three biscuits on each end of the shelf.
If seems that there's not alot of wood to support the weight of the
shelf and the dishes.

Anybody try this before?

Rob

My current kitchen, that I built 20 years ago, I used biscuits to butt joint
shelves inside the cabinets. *Still holding up fine.
But if you are going to dado the sides for the shelves to fit into there
would be absolutely no reason to also use biscuits.

Thanks everyone for the wonderful advice. I'll look into adjustable
shelves instead.

Rob

On Oct 22, 7:45*pm, rlz wrote:
I am building kitchen cabinets using 3/4" oak plywood. *I'm using dado
cuts into the side panels for the shelves. *In a magazine i get, it
talks about using a biscuit joiner on cabinets. *I've used biscuits to
attach faceframes to the box, but I've never tried using them to
attaches shelves to the side panels. *Is this a feasable option? *Can
biscuits hold the weight of heavy dishes on shelves? *Most of the top
cabinets would probably get three biscuits on each end of the shelf.
If seems that there's not alot of wood to support the weight of the
shelf and the dishes.

Anybody try this before?

Rob

Fixing the shelves in position may prove a regrettable decision
sometime down the road.

Instead, drill the inside cabinet walls to accept shelf pegs every X-
inches (look in one of your publications for recommended spacing) and
rest assured that, for all but the widest of cabinets, even MDF
shelves will hold the weight of the dishes and such they are called to
support.

A better use of effort and $$$ might be a design incorporating "pull
out" shelves (especially in "tall" pantry cabinets and base cabinets.

One other suggestion - Pan Drawer base cabinets. My wife loves them.
Large, wide drawers she finds ideal for pots and pans.

One other thought - since only one side of each "end" wall cabinet is
"exposed," why not save a few bucks on the "interior wall cabinets and
ditch the oak in between?

On Sat, 23 Oct 2010 21:20:44 -0700, "Lew Hodgett"
wrote:

"Hoosierpopi" wrote:

Fixing the shelves in position may prove a regrettable decision
sometime down the road.

Instead, drill the inside cabinet walls to accept shelf pegs every X-
inches (look in one of your publications for recommended spacing) and

Yeah, adjustable shelves are a godsend.


rest assured that, for all but the widest of cabinets, even MDF
shelves will hold the weight of the dishes and such they are called to
support.

....with only an inch or three of sag over time.

--
An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile,
hoping it will eat him last.
-- Sir Winston Churchill

wrote in message
...

When I am retrofitting a kitchen or building a "one off" cabinet as a
bookcase, pantry, electronics cabinet, or anything else that might
need to hold a lot of weight but needs to be adjustable to the whims
of the owner, I still like these:

http://www.cabinetparts.com/g/steel-...knape-and-vogt


Robert

Yessir:
http://picasaweb.google.com/contrari...24902615202098

Max

On Oct 24, 9:48*am, Larry Jaques
wrote:


I'm ashamed at Robin for the Festering price of that thing, when a
piece of pegboard works just fine. *:/


A handsaw will do everything a Makita track saw will do too.... as a
matter of speaking.
Not as well, mind you, but it will.
So it is with any home-made drilling jigs. Seldom do they work out
well and 120 bucks spread out over a whole kitchen is a drop in the
bucket. The device is very well made, sturdy and accurate and there is
no way *I* could make one for less money. *I* think it is a bargain.
Set it back 37 mm from the front of the cabinet and you get to
accurately/quickly mount your hinges too.
Some jigs aren't worth the money. This one is.....imho. It helps a lot
in keeping the drill bit 90° to the gable as well.
The sturdiness of the jigs also comes into play when drilling into
panels with a course grain. Even a vix bit will wander under those
conditions.
I drilled one serious amount of shelf holes in my day, from several
wooden-, plastic-, and metal home made jigs, to a proper jig to a
Delta gang drill to a CNC....
You don't need to do a lot of them to get your $120 back in accuracy
and time.
And pilaster strips, Robert? Really? Maybe in a heavy-weight
commercial library...but man, I dislike those things immensely.

On Sun, 24 Oct 2010 08:11:55 -0700 (PDT), Robatoy
wrote:

On Oct 24, 9:48*am, Larry Jaques
wrote:


I'm ashamed at Robin for the Festering price of that thing, when a
piece of pegboard works just fine. *:/


A handsaw will do everything a Makita track saw will do too.... as a
matter of speaking.
Not as well, mind you, but it will.




So it is with any home-made drilling jigs. Seldom do they work out
well and 120 bucks spread out over a whole kitchen is a drop in the
bucket. The device is very well made, sturdy and accurate and there is
no way *I* could make one for less money. *I* think it is a bargain.

You're retired now, so you can't count your time. You could build it
for less.


Set it back 37 mm from the front of the cabinet and you get to
accurately/quickly mount your hinges too.
Some jigs aren't worth the money. This one is.....imho. It helps a lot
in keeping the drill bit 90° to the gable as well.

So when a person builds his own, he can use a bushing, too.
(Generic "he", Carla.)


The sturdiness of the jigs also comes into play when drilling into
panels with a course grain.

Of course it's coarse.


Even a vix bit will wander under those conditions.

Not by much, though.


I drilled one serious amount of shelf holes in my day, from several
wooden-, plastic-, and metal home made jigs, to a proper jig to a
Delta gang drill to a CNC....
You don't need to do a lot of them to get your $120 back in accuracy
and time.

Perhaps in a production setting, but not for a couple cabs. Besides,
jigs are -fun- to build and use.


And pilaster strips, Robert? Really? Maybe in a heavy-weight
commercial library...but man, I dislike those things immensely.

Half my ancient kitchen cabinetry is made with adjustable pinned
shelves, the other half with pilaster strips. I prefer the pins.
They're considerably less obtrusive.

--
An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile,
hoping it will eat him last.
-- Sir Winston Churchill

On Oct 24, 11:48*am, Larry Jaques
wrote:
On Sun, 24 Oct 2010 08:11:55 -0700 (PDT), Robatoy

wrote:
On Oct 24, 9:48*am, Larry Jaques
wrote:

I'm ashamed at Robin for the Festering price of that thing, when a
piece of pegboard works just fine. *:/

A handsaw will do everything a Makita track saw will do too.... as a
matter of speaking.
Not as well, mind you, but it will.



So it is with any home-made drilling jigs. Seldom do they work out
well and 120 bucks spread out over a whole kitchen is a drop in the
bucket. The device is very well made, sturdy and accurate and there is
no way *I* could make one for less money. *I* think it is a bargain.

You're retired now, so you can't count your time. *You could build it
for less.

Retired, eh? I was at a Vectric (CNC software) User Group meeting in
Guelph, ON, Saturday and ran into a couple of my sign material
suppliers. One reminded me that my sheets of Extira would show up this
Wed, the other that the Alu-Cor sheets for Asanté outdoor signs would
be here tomorrow.... retired, yup.. oh, and the downtown reno is
really picking up steam. Roofers and painters starting tomorrow, need
me some permits, then I get to decide if I want to build 28 diner
tables, square and rectangular slabs on iron pedestal legs.... done
that before. LOT of spray contact cement or vacuum forming 1/4"
Corian, which means I need to go out of town to an oven I can use...
kid backed into a truck with her Mazda. need some quotes for body
work.... wifey would like a new front door with a screen door that has
those super cool roll-up hidaway screens.. *I* didn't want a screen
door on the front, but DOG has more to say than I....retired...yup....

The sturdiness of the jigs also comes into play when drilling into
panels with a course grain.

Of course it's coarse.

C-Less The Librarian strikes again! G

Even a vix bit will wander under those conditions.

Not by much, though.

Enough to bother me. I do like them for entry door hinge mounting
though.

Half my ancient kitchen cabinetry is made with adjustable pinned
shelves, the other half with pilaster strips. I prefer the pins.
They're considerably less obtrusive.

On Oct 22, 7:45*pm, rlz wrote:
I am building kitchen cabinets using 3/4" oak plywood. *I'm using dado
cuts into the side panels for the shelves. *In a magazine i get, it
talks about using a biscuit joiner on cabinets. *I've used biscuits to
attach faceframes to the box, but I've never tried using them to
attaches shelves to the side panels. *Is this a feasable option? *Can
biscuits hold the weight of heavy dishes on shelves? *Most of the top
cabinets would probably get three biscuits on each end of the shelf.
If seems that there's not alot of wood to support the weight of the
shelf and the dishes.

Anybody try this before?

Rob

For fixed shelves in a rigid cabinet, #20 biscuits are going to be
at *least* as strong as 3/16" shelf pins in 3/8" deep holes.

On Sun, 24 Oct 2010 09:30:13 -0700 (PDT), Robatoy
wrote:

On Oct 24, 11:48*am, Larry Jaques
wrote:
On Sun, 24 Oct 2010 08:11:55 -0700 (PDT), Robatoy

wrote:
On Oct 24, 9:48*am, Larry Jaques
wrote:

I'm ashamed at Robin for the Festering price of that thing, when a
piece of pegboard works just fine. *:/

A handsaw will do everything a Makita track saw will do too.... as a
matter of speaking.
Not as well, mind you, but it will.



So it is with any home-made drilling jigs. Seldom do they work out
well and 120 bucks spread out over a whole kitchen is a drop in the
bucket. The device is very well made, sturdy and accurate and there is
no way *I* could make one for less money. *I* think it is a bargain.

You're retired now, so you can't count your time. *You could build it
for less.

Retired, eh? I was at a Vectric (CNC software) User Group meeting in
Guelph, ON, Saturday and ran into a couple of my sign material
suppliers. One reminded me that my sheets of Extira would show up this
Wed, the other that the Alu-Cor sheets for Asanté outdoor signs would
be here tomorrow.... retired, yup.. oh, and the downtown reno is
really picking up steam. Roofers and painters starting tomorrow, need
me some permits, then I get to decide if I want to build 28 diner
tables, square and rectangular slabs on iron pedestal legs.... done
that before. LOT of spray contact cement or vacuum forming 1/4"
Corian, which means I need to go out of town to an oven I can use...
kid backed into a truck with her Mazda. need some quotes for body
work.... wifey would like a new front door with a screen door that has
those super cool roll-up hidaway screens.. *I* didn't want a screen
door on the front, but DOG has more to say than I....retired...yup....

Yeah, you sold the business and retired. Now everyone you know (and
many you don't yet know) has projects for you. Y'know, since you have
all the time in the world to do 'em. Retirement AIN'T for sissies.


The sturdiness of the jigs also comes into play when drilling into
panels with a course grain.

Of course it's coarse.

C-Less The Librarian strikes again! G

My inner English Teacher made me do it.


Even a vix bit will wander under those conditions.

Not by much, though.

Enough to bother me. I do like them for entry door hinge mounting
though.

Yeah, they work great there.

--
An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile,
hoping it will eat him last.
-- Sir Winston Churchill

Father Haskell wrote in news:a964ae37-4c80-408d-
:


Sweet.

For a one-shot job, pegboard is cheap and makes a good
enough template. Run masking tape over the holes you
don't want to drill, wrap another piece around the bit for
a depth stop.

If you can get deep enough peg board, you may be able to just glue it in
place and leave it. I wouldn't do it for a book case, but maybe a couple
foot wide DVD rack.

Puckdropper
--
Never teach your apprentice everything you know.

On Oct 24, 10:11*am, Robatoy wrote:

And pilaster strips, Robert? Really? Maybe in a heavy-weight
commercial library...but man, I dislike those things immensely.

It may be a question of taste. I like them inletted into the wood,
not surface mounted. I like them painted the color of the cabinet.
And since most of the adjustable cabinets are made to be used as such,
the always seem to be full. I really don't notice the strips when the
cabinets are loaded up.

On the other hand... I cannot stand those little shelf nubs that
wallow out the holes on shelving and cause them to get loose or
mushroom around the hole itself. Some don't get past a few
adjustments. I blame this mainly on the side material and impatient
people yanking too hard to move them.

I only use the pilasters that are inlet into the sides that use the
little clips. I don't like the ones that you see on the back at all,
and I hate those awful looking 6", 8", and 12" arms that used to be
used. Those were ugly when they were the rage in the 80s.

Robert

Hi Rob,

I am building kitchen cabinets using 3/4" oak plywood. I'm using dado
cuts into the side panels for the shelves. In a magazine i get, it
talks about using a biscuit joiner on cabinets. I've used biscuits to
attach faceframes to the box, but I've never tried using them to
attaches shelves to the side panels. Is this a feasable option? Can
biscuits hold the weight of heavy dishes on shelves? Most of the top
cabinets would probably get three biscuits on each end of the shelf.
If seems that there's not alot of wood to support the weight of the
shelf and the dishes.

I'm probably going to take heat for this, but I've built dozens of
cabinets for our house, office, garage, and more using simple butt
joints, glue, and finish nails. Once you attach the back and the face
frame, the case is very sturdy. We've loaded up many of our cabinets with
hundreds of pounds of stuff with zero problems.

I usually use 1/4" plywood for the back, inset in a rabbet around the
back edge of the case, glued and nailed in place.

I assemble the face frame with pocket screws, then glue and nail the
frame to the case.

If you're a purist, you could omit the nails and hold everything together
with clamps till the glue dries. But, it's hard to beat the speed and
convenience of an air nailer, even if you do need to fill the holes
later.

As for the internal shelves, I drill 1/4" holes spaced an inch or two
apart (I have a jig from rockler), then use shelf pins to hold the
shelves (I prefer the L-shaped clips rather than the basic posts). This
lets you adjust the shelves up or down as needed to accomodate tall
cereal boxes, pitchers, or whatever.

If you need more adjustability, you could inset metal shelf standards in
rabbets along the insides of the cabinet. I've done this for bookshelves
where the finer adjustment is handy, but it's a lot more work and cost
than I needed for cabinets.

I like to make my bottom shelf flush with the top of the bottom rail of
the face frame. This prevents the annoying lip I have seen on some
commercial cabinets, and it allows space under the cabinet to attach
under-cabinet lights.

I do add a mounting strip along the back bottom of the cabinet, as well
as a mounting strip along the top of the cabinet (inside). This gives
you a little more support for the cabinet as opposed to just screwing
through the 1/4" plywood backing. It you don't want the mounting strip
inside the cabinet, you could use 1/2" plywood for the cabinet back
instead. Either works fine, but it will cost more to use 1/2" plywood for
the backs.

Remember to use long 3" screws into the studs when mounting your
cabinets!

Good luck,

Anthony

On Oct 25, 10:51*am, HerHusband wrote:
[snipped for brevity]

Remember to use long 3" screws into the studs when mounting your
cabinets!

Use 4" when you think there might be a sliding pocket door in behind
the wall where you're hanging your cabinets. G

On 10/25/2010 9:51 AM, HerHusband wrote:

Remember to use long 3" screws into the studs when mounting your
cabinets!

A good tip when mounting cabinets to the walls these days is to use
"Spax" screws.

These things have an amazing sheer strength and holding power ... much
more than lag screws of the same size, need no pilot hole, have less
tendency to split wood, and self countersink.

Highly recommended for attaching kitchen cabinets to wall studs and
blocking.

Some Borg's even carry them now. And McFeely's is a given.

Downside is the price, but if you want each component in a kitchen job
to do its part in the best possible manner, they're cheap at twice the
price.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)

Remember to use long 3" screws into the studs
when mounting your cabinets!
Use 4" when you think there might be a sliding pocket door in
behind the wall where you're hanging your cabinets. G

Uh, yep, you want to be sure you're not screwing into something you
shouldn't behind the wall (water pipes, electrical wires, ducts, pocket
doors). Ideally, there should be metal protection plates to prevent
screwing into the wires and pipes, but that may not always be the case. So,
do a little research before driving screws "willy-nilly" into the wall.

My point was not to use 3/4" screws into drywall or something. The
strongest cabinets in the world won't be worth a darn if they pull off the
wall when you load them up.

I use 3" deck screws at every stud behind the cabinet, both at the top and
bottom of the cabinet.

Anthony

On 10/25/10 10:31 AM, Swingman wrote:

A good tip when mounting cabinets to the walls these days is to use
"Spax" screws.


I love those things.
The price isn't that much higher, but the quality is.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

HerHusband wrote in
:

*snip*


My point was not to use 3/4" screws into drywall or something. The
strongest cabinets in the world won't be worth a darn if they pull off
the wall when you load them up.

I use 3" deck screws at every stud behind the cabinet, both at the top
and bottom of the cabinet.

Anthony


We had that happen with a bathroom cabinet not long ago. The screw, if
it hit the stud at all, was only secured to drywall. I'm surprised it
lasted as long as it did.

Proper length screws in the right place solve all kinds of problems.

Puckdropper
--
Never teach your apprentice everything you know.

On 10/25/2010 6:52 PM, Puckdropper wrote:
wrote in
:

*snip*


My point was not to use 3/4" screws into drywall or something. The
strongest cabinets in the world won't be worth a darn if they pull off
the wall when you load them up.

I use 3" deck screws at every stud behind the cabinet, both at the top
and bottom of the cabinet.

We had that happen with a bathroom cabinet not long ago. The screw, if
it hit the stud at all, was only secured to drywall. I'm surprised it
lasted as long as it did.

Proper length screws in the right place solve all kinds of problems.

For those new to the game of attaching cabinets to stud walls:

If you're going to attach a cabinet to a wall with screws, even if
you're eating your own dog food and not getting paid, but really want to
do it worry free:

Use a box knife to cut out the existing drywall in the obvious
locations, toenail/screw in 2x4/6 blocking between the studs, put the
drywall cutout's back (a quickie 'tape n' float' job is all that is
necessary), then attach cabinet(s) to blocking with the screws where you
want them to be, not where the studs happen to fall.

Adds maybe thirty minutes to the job, and you can sleep for years
without having to once worry that a cabinet, with your good name on it,
is falling off the wall.

Or:

If I can't do it that way, and with small cabinets, like in a bathroom
vanity cabinet, it's French Cleat time ... similar to this (but not in a
bathroom):

http://www.e-woodshop.net/images/DeskCab.jpg

That cabinet took ten minutes to hang from start to finish, been there
almost ten years, and it will be there until I pop off the crown, lift
it off it's mating cleats, remove the few screws holding those to the
studs, and add a wee bit of touchup paint ... and you'll never know it
was there.

All as simple as beveling the bottom of the "tack strips" on the back of
your cabinets on the table saw, then screwing the cut off of that
process to the wall studs as the mating cleats, top and bottom.

And, if you cut the wall piece a few inches shorter than the cabinet is
wide, you can easily center the cabinet perfectly between between
walls/other cabinets.

Elegance in cabinet hanging personified ... FWIW

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)

I have a factory manufactured corner cabinet in all oak (inside and out) and
they used these shelf fasteners shown in the link.

One big drawback...How the F&*K do you get the shelves out to adjust them? I
believe I will have to cut the tops off with a utility knife! Once snapped
down the shelves do not seem to be able to snap-back up again.



"Max" wrote in message
eb.com...
I just built a set of cabinets using 3/4" Oak. I prefer having adjustable
shelves so I used these:

http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?p...24398&pn=24398

I used pocket holes (and glue) to fasten the face frame to the carcase.
I used dadoes for the bottom shelf (base cabinets) and dadoes for the bottom
of the wall cabinets.
What span for the shelves? I found that 1/2" plywood was adequate for
shelves. I added a strip of 3/4 oak across the front of the shelves but it
was mainly to cover the edge of the plywood. It, of course, strengthened the
shelf as well.

Max

Swingman wrote:

For those new to the game of attaching cabinets to stud walls:

If you're going to attach a cabinet to a wall with screws, even if
you're eating your own dog food and not getting paid, but really want to
do it worry free:

Use a box knife to cut out the existing drywall in the obvious
locations, toenail/screw in 2x4/6 blocking between the studs, put the
drywall cutout's back (a quickie 'tape n' float' job is all that is
necessary), then attach cabinet(s) to blocking with the screws where you
want them to be, not where the studs happen to fall.

Adds maybe thirty minutes to the job, and you can sleep for years
without having to once worry that a cabinet, with your good name on it,
is falling off the wall.


If you had not suggested it, I might have worried about the end grain
holding the screws in your blocking boards. Thanks for the lesson. Based
on my experience, I'd be lucky to have the cabinets up in 2 1/2 hours,
rather than 30 minutes, but that includes cleanup. : )

Bill



Or:

If I can't do it that way, and with small cabinets, like in a bathroom
vanity cabinet, it's French Cleat time ... similar to this (but not in a
bathroom):

http://www.e-woodshop.net/images/DeskCab.jpg

That cabinet took ten minutes to hang from start to finish, been there
almost ten years, and it will be there until I pop off the crown, lift
it off it's mating cleats, remove the few screws holding those to the
studs, and add a wee bit of touchup paint ... and you'll never know it
was there.

All as simple as beveling the bottom of the "tack strips" on the back of
your cabinets on the table saw, then screwing the cut off of that
process to the wall studs as the mating cleats, top and bottom.

And, if you cut the wall piece a few inches shorter than the cabinet is
wide, you can easily center the cabinet perfectly between between
walls/other cabinets.

Elegance in cabinet hanging personified ... FWIW

On 10/25/10 8:26 PM, Josepi wrote:
I have a factory manufactured corner cabinet in all oak (inside and out) and
they used these shelf fasteners shown in the link.

One big drawback...How the F&*K do you get the shelves out to adjust them? I
believe I will have to cut the tops off with a utility knife! Once snapped
down the shelves do not seem to be able to snap-back up again.


There is room to push the tab to release the shelf.
Look at the close-up picture. You can see that the piece is molded so
there is room behind the tab to push.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 10/25/2010 8:28 PM, Bill wrote:

If you had not suggested it, I might have worried about the end grain
holding the screws in your blocking boards.

Bill, there is no exposed end grain in cabinet blocking ... the 2 x 4,
or 2 x 6 cabinet blocking is fitted in between the studs, similar to
fire stop blocking in stud walls, except with the wide face out.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)

Swingman wrote:
On 10/25/2010 8:28 PM, Bill wrote:

If you had not suggested it, I might have worried about the end grain
holding the screws in your blocking boards.

Bill, there is no exposed end grain in cabinet blocking ... the 2 x 4,
or 2 x 6 cabinet blocking is fitted in between the studs, similar to
fire stop blocking in stud walls, except with the wide face out.


Cabinet blocking appears to be a great way to deal with walls that
aren't flat too (and that must include most of them)! Pretty cool.

Bill

"-MIKE-" wrote in message
...
On 10/25/10 8:26 PM, Josepi wrote:
I have a factory manufactured corner cabinet in all oak (inside and out)
and
they used these shelf fasteners shown in the link.

One big drawback...How the F&*K do you get the shelves out to adjust
them? I
believe I will have to cut the tops off with a utility knife! Once
snapped
down the shelves do not seem to be able to snap-back up again.


There is room to push the tab to release the shelf.
Look at the close-up picture. You can see that the piece is molded so
there is room behind the tab to push.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply



Right-O!!

Max

Thanks. I will have to give that another try, someday. Trouble is trying to
get five hands into the back of the cabinet through a 12" opening at the
same time...LOL

Maybe one at a time and wedges or screwdrivers. The shelves look pretty
tight in these clips. So far the wife is happy to display what she can get
into it...glass door display unit only, basically.



"-MIKE-" wrote in message
...
There is room to push the tab to release the shelf.
Look at the close-up picture. You can see that the piece is molded so
there is room behind the tab to push.



On 10/25/10 8:26 PM, Josepi wrote:
I have a factory manufactured corner cabinet in all oak (inside and out) and
they used these shelf fasteners shown in the link.


One big drawback...How the F&*K do you get the shelves out to adjust them? I
believe I will have to cut the tops off with a utility knife! Once snapped
down the shelves do not seem to be able to snap-back up again.

--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

I did all the cross blocking in my outside, insulated, vapour barriered
wall. Think I even used 2x12?? The installer put his screws in the studs
anyway. I guess I needed to be more knowledgable about cabinet hanging
heights or better yet, do it myself...yes that would have avoided some of
the turmoil and possible legal...well never mind...hazard of having some
knowledge.



"Swingman" wrote in message
...
Bill, there is no exposed end grain in cabinet blocking ... the 2 x 4,
or 2 x 6 cabinet blocking is fitted in between the studs, similar to
fire stop blocking in stud walls, except with the wide face out.



On 10/25/2010 8:28 PM, Bill wrote:
If you had not suggested it, I might have worried about the end grain
holding the screws in your blocking boards.

On Mon, 25 Oct 2010 23:06:26 -0400, Bill wrote:

Swingman wrote:
On 10/25/2010 8:28 PM, Bill wrote:

If you had not suggested it, I might have worried about the end grain
holding the screws in your blocking boards.

Bill, there is no exposed end grain in cabinet blocking ... the 2 x 4,
or 2 x 6 cabinet blocking is fitted in between the studs, similar to
fire stop blocking in stud walls, except with the wide face out.


Cabinet blocking appears to be a great way to deal with walls that
aren't flat too (and that must include most of them)! Pretty cool.

No, the blocking would follow the same curve the tubafores did before
it. No change. Scribing gets you a flat cabinet.

That drywall book I told you about has some tips on curvy walls. A
single cut with a recip saw can allow the bow out of a tubafore, with
a piece of 2x4 sistered on the side to regain the lost rigidity.

--
Most people assume the fights are going to be the left versus the right,
but it always is the reasonable versus the jerks.
-- Jimmy Wales