Just saw some pictures for a great new home workshop in abpw. It occurred to
me that I haven't seen much discussion on people protecting their
investments in regards to theft.

How are you protecting your standalone shops (aside from your pit bull) from
possible theft? How many have actually implemented an alarm system? Of
course some of this may depend on locale, but I'd be interested in hearing
comments.

I have just built a new home with a large basement where I have my shop. I
had an alarm system installed and have magnetic detectors on my basement
windows in addition to an alarm on my sump pump. I also have a motion
detector upstairs in addition to the doors and windows covered and a radio
control unit incase the power goes out. The system cost $1800 installed and
a $22.50 monitoring fee per month.


"Upscale" wrote in message
e.rogers.com...
Just saw some pictures for a great new home workshop in abpw. It occurred
to
me that I haven't seen much discussion on people protecting their
investments in regards to theft.

How are you protecting your standalone shops (aside from your pit bull)
from
possible theft? How many have actually implemented an alarm system? Of
course some of this may depend on locale, but I'd be interested in hearing
comments.

My shop is 1/3 of the 3 car garage. I have a full monitored alarm
system for the garage. it is part of the system that protects the house
but is on a separate "domain", that allows me to arm or disarm it
separately from the house. Front door to the shop, rear door to the
garage and the sliding door between the garage and shop have contact
switches, there is a motion detector in the shop to cover window entry.
Alarm company was ADT but is now CPI. Also have heat detector in the
shop (dust affects smoke detectors), smoke detector in the garage and in
the 2nd floor craft room. these are all part of the same system and
monitored.

I sleep better at night and I don't worry about the shop when I am away.
In 9 years we have had 2 false alarms and the police response time was
under 8 minutes both times.

BRuce

Upscale wrote:

Just saw some pictures for a great new home workshop in abpw. It occurred to
me that I haven't seen much discussion on people protecting their
investments in regards to theft.

How are you protecting your standalone shops (aside from your pit bull) from
possible theft? How many have actually implemented an alarm system? Of
course some of this may depend on locale, but I'd be interested in hearing
comments.



--
---

BRuce

Upscale asks:

How are you protecting your standalone shops (aside from your pit bull) from
possible theft? How many have actually implemented an alarm system? Of
course some of this may depend on locale, but I'd be interested in hearing
comments.

Small dog in the house, shop 75' from bedroom window, #6 shot.

Charlie Self
"Work like you don't need the money. Love like you've never been hurt. Dance
like nobody's watching." Satchel Paige

http://hometown.aol.com/charliediy/m.../business.html

In VA can you shoot them if they are not moving towards you?

BRuce

Charlie Self wrote:

Upscale asks:


How are you protecting your standalone shops (aside from your pit bull) from
possible theft? How many have actually implemented an alarm system? Of
course some of this may depend on locale, but I'd be interested in hearing
comments.


Small dog in the house, shop 75' from bedroom window, #6 shot.

Charlie Self
"Work like you don't need the money. Love like you've never been hurt. Dance
like nobody's watching." Satchel Paige

http://hometown.aol.com/charliediy/m.../business.html

--
---

BRuce

Upscale asks:
How are you protecting your standalone shops (aside from your pit bull) from
possible theft? How many have actually implemented an alarm system? Of
course some of this may depend on locale, but I'd be interested in hearing
comments.

\ /
\ /
|-------------#--|
| |
| FRONT |
| |
|----------------|
/ \
/ \
Dave in Fairfax
--
reply-to doesn't work
use:
daveldr at att dot net
American Association of Woodturners
http://www.woodturner.org
Capital Area Woodturners
http://www.capwoodturners.org/

BRuce responds:


In VA can you shoot them if they are not moving towards you?

BRuce

Charlie Self wrote:

Upscale asks:


How are you protecting your standalone shops (aside from your pit bull)
from
possible theft? How many have actually implemented an alarm system? Of
course some of this may depend on locale, but I'd be interested in hearing
comments.


Small dog in the house, shop 75' from bedroom window, #6 shot.

Probably not. But if you yell at a guy and he turns towards you, how is anyone
going to know he wasn't coming for you?

In truth, break-in type theft around occupied homes is a tiny problem in that
area, though the shurf would have us think otherwise when he's up for
re-election or when budget time dawns. Lots of dumbasses breaking into stores,
stealing butts, beer and bucks and getting caught the next day, though.

Charlie Self
"Work like you don't need the money. Love like you've never been hurt. Dance
like nobody's watching." Satchel Paige

http://hometown.aol.com/charliediy/m.../business.html

understood, works about the same way here in NC. We did have a big case
a few years ago where a guy found a group of teens stealing stuff from
his garage and shot one of them in the back. Case went to court and he
was found guilty because they did not pose a threat to him but judge
gave him a suspended sentence due to circumstances. I wouldn't want the
aggravation of a court appearance so i would probably wait for them to
com back for "seconds" and shoot them on the way in. :-)

BRuce

Charlie Self wrote:

BRuce responds:


In VA can you shoot them if they are not moving towards you?

BRuce

Charlie Self wrote:


Upscale asks:



How are you protecting your standalone shops (aside from your pit bull)

from

possible theft? How many have actually implemented an alarm system? Of
course some of this may depend on locale, but I'd be interested in hearing
comments.


Small dog in the house, shop 75' from bedroom window, #6 shot.


Probably not. But if you yell at a guy and he turns towards you, how is anyone
going to know he wasn't coming for you?

In truth, break-in type theft around occupied homes is a tiny problem in that
area, though the shurf would have us think otherwise when he's up for
re-election or when budget time dawns. Lots of dumbasses breaking into stores,
stealing butts, beer and bucks and getting caught the next day, though.

Charlie Self
"Work like you don't need the money. Love like you've never been hurt. Dance
like nobody's watching." Satchel Paige

http://hometown.aol.com/charliediy/m.../business.html

--
---

BRuce

Shop is set up with motion detectors, that set lights, horn and video. I'm
in a rural setting where response time, might be hours.

Smile.....for the camera....and hope the fuzz find you, before I do.....

Cheers,

Andy

"Upscale" wrote in message
Just saw some pictures for a great new home workshop in abpw. It occurred
to
me that I haven't seen much discussion on people protecting their
investments in regards to theft.

How are you protecting your standalone shops (aside from your pit bull)
from
possible theft? How many have actually implemented an alarm system? Of
course some of this may depend on locale, but I'd be interested in hearing
comments.

While this house was being built, I had the shop wide open out of necessity
almost every day while working on cabinets, with all manner of characters on
the building crews constantly walking by the shop and dog eying my tools.
The "professional installation" quote from a local alarm company that was
supposed to allow me to sleep at night was $1800+ for just two points of
entry. Long story short, bought the parts and installed the system myself
for around $350. I got a siren for the thing that would deafen a dead man
.... and I made damn sure it went off 'accidentally a couple of times
whenever a new crew showed up on site.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 1/23/04

I USE BENCH DOGS!!!!

On Tue, 27 Jan 2004 17:41:17 -0600, "Swingman" wrote:


entry. Long story short, bought the parts and installed the system myself
for around $350.

So did I.

Another point, monitoring is completely negotiable!

I have a major company that tries to raise my fee every quarter. I
call them and tell them to close the account. Bingo! Back down to
$17 a month again! My neighbors are paying $28 to the same company.

Remember, monitoring an alarm costs almost nothing, my $17 is better
than zero, or at least _they_ think so! G

Barry

I'm watching this thread with interest because I am just about to move from
relatively safe VA (unless charlie's shootin at ya) to San Antonio where
bars on the window are the norm.

Montyhp
"Charlie Self" wrote in message
...
BRuce responds:


In VA can you shoot them if they are not moving towards you?

BRuce

Charlie Self wrote:

Upscale asks:


How are you protecting your standalone shops (aside from your pit bull)
from
possible theft? How many have actually implemented an alarm system? Of
course some of this may depend on locale, but I'd be interested in
hearing
comments.


Small dog in the house, shop 75' from bedroom window, #6 shot.

Probably not. But if you yell at a guy and he turns towards you, how is
anyone
going to know he wasn't coming for you?

In truth, break-in type theft around occupied homes is a tiny problem in
that
area, though the shurf would have us think otherwise when he's up for
re-election or when budget time dawns. Lots of dumbasses breaking into
stores,
stealing butts, beer and bucks and getting caught the next day, though.

Charlie Self
"Work like you don't need the money. Love like you've never been hurt.
Dance
like nobody's watching." Satchel Paige

http://hometown.aol.com/charliediy/m.../business.html

"Ace" wrote in message ....I had an alarm system installed and have magnetic detectors on my basement windows in addition to an alarm on my sump pump.


This is obviously for protection against intruders coming in through
the drain tile or storm sewer laterals.

Joe

Barry Burke writes:

I have a major company that tries to raise my fee every quarter. I
call them and tell them to close the account. Bingo! Back down to
$17 a month again! My neighbors are paying $28 to the same company.

Remember, monitoring an alarm costs almost nothing, my $17 is better
than zero, or at least _they_ think so! G

Sounds like AT&T when I cancelled my cell phone account. They wouldn't give me
what I wanted as a roaming area, so I dropped it. After I dropped it, they
offered what I wanted, but by that time I realized I had just gotten rid of one
more electronic PITA that I had no real need for.

Charlie Self
"Work like you don't need the money. Love like you've never been hurt. Dance
like nobody's watching." Satchel Paige

http://hometown.aol.com/charliediy/m.../business.html

Big Joe writes:

Ace" wrote in message ....I had an alarm system installed and
have magnetic detectors on my basement windows in addition to an alarm on my
sump pump.


This is obviously for protection against intruders coming in through
the drain tile or storm sewer laterals.

Don't kid yourself. A basement full of water is less fun than a swimming pool.
And a problem with a sump pump can create great expense. We had a basement fire
started by a fault sump pump this summer. I think the insurance company's total
payout had to reach at least $40,000 for cleaning, repair, replacement.

Charlie Self
"Work like you don't need the money. Love like you've never been hurt. Dance
like nobody's watching." Satchel Paige

http://hometown.aol.com/charliediy/m.../business.html

On 28 Jan 2004 03:00:40 GMT, otforme (Charlie Self)
wrote:

Sounds like AT&T when I cancelled my cell phone account. They wouldn't give me
what I wanted as a roaming area, so I dropped it. After I dropped it, they
offered what I wanted, but by that time I realized I had just gotten rid of one
more electronic PITA that I had no real need for.

Keep in mind that cellular and landline phone companies, CATV, etc...
have definite costs associated with each subscriber, like feature
licenses, programming fees, cable, transmission, and switching
equipment maintenance, contracts with out of area providers, all
depending on the individual business.

My alarm system uses a circuit maintained by the phone company
connected to equipment that is out of warranty. G If I don't bring
an alarm in, which I very rarely do, I'm literally just a database
entry. The most expensive cost of doing business is probably mailing
the bill! Plus, I'll bet these guys actually make money on an out of
warranty service call.

Barry

FWIW, Harbor Freight has mini security cameras on sale for $29.

Upscale wrote:

Just saw some pictures for a great new home workshop in abpw. It occurred to
me that I haven't seen much discussion on people protecting their
investments in regards to theft.

How are you protecting your standalone shops (aside from your pit bull) from
possible theft? How many have actually implemented an alarm system? Of
course some of this may depend on locale, but I'd be interested in hearing
comments.

Might look for game cameras on the web. They are digital cameras of
varying cost hooked up to a motion sensor. If tucked away in a shop,
they probably wouldn't be noticed. You might loose your stuff but you
would have nice high res. photos of the bad guys.

A corollary to monitoring for theft is the potential for fire. My shop is
in walled off section of a finished basement so, to me, fire is more of a
concern then theft. I understand that fire/smoke monitors work my measuring
the opacity of the air. I would expect these alarms would go off all the
time because of the saw dust floating in the air. Do they have special
monitors that can deal with the saw dust laden air?

"Upscale" wrote in message
e.rogers.com...
Just saw some pictures for a great new home workshop in abpw. It occurred
to
me that I haven't seen much discussion on people protecting their
investments in regards to theft.

How are you protecting your standalone shops (aside from your pit bull)
from
possible theft? How many have actually implemented an alarm system? Of
course some of this may depend on locale, but I'd be interested in hearing
comments.

Relatively safe? That's what I thought. All of a sudden the little thugs are
breaking into houses and cars like crazy here in my little rural slice of
VA. Talked to a trooper the other day and he said "Well around here, if we,
or the County police don't get them soon, well be picking them up just
inside someone's door and putting them in a body bag."

"Montyhp" montyhp at yahoo.com wrote in message
...
I'm watching this thread with interest because I am just about to move
from
relatively safe VA (unless charlie's shootin at ya) to San Antonio where
bars on the window are the norm.

Montyhp
"Charlie Self" wrote in message
...
BRuce responds:


In VA can you shoot them if they are not moving towards you?

BRuce

Charlie Self wrote:

Upscale asks:


How are you protecting your standalone shops (aside from your pit
bull)
from
possible theft? How many have actually implemented an alarm system?
Of
course some of this may depend on locale, but I'd be interested in
hearing
comments.


Small dog in the house, shop 75' from bedroom window, #6 shot.

Probably not. But if you yell at a guy and he turns towards you, how is
anyone
going to know he wasn't coming for you?

In truth, break-in type theft around occupied homes is a tiny problem in
that
area, though the shurf would have us think otherwise when he's up for
re-election or when budget time dawns. Lots of dumbasses breaking into
stores,
stealing butts, beer and bucks and getting caught the next day, though.

Charlie Self
"Work like you don't need the money. Love like you've never been hurt.
Dance
like nobody's watching." Satchel Paige

http://hometown.aol.com/charliediy/m.../business.html

Barry Burke responds:

Sounds like AT&T when I cancelled my cell phone account. They wouldn't give
me
what I wanted as a roaming area, so I dropped it. After I dropped it, they
offered what I wanted, but by that time I realized I had just gotten rid of
one
more electronic PITA that I had no real need for.

Keep in mind that cellular and landline phone companies, CATV, etc...
have definite costs associated with each subscriber, like feature
licenses, programming fees, cable, transmission, and switching
equipment maintenance, contracts with out of area providers, all
depending on the individual business.


Not my problem, though. They refused to change the area to one I needed--I
could roam throughout the PA, NY, OH, NE area, but before I got out of WV going
south it was 2 bucks a minute. Damned near everyone I'd want to call on a
mobile phone is in VA and south so I wanted to swap areas. No deal, according
to AT&T. I did not want to add areas, or even get extra area.

Their costs were the same after I dropped the account as before, so there's not
exactly a lot of problem that I can see with changing it before they ****ed me
off. They didn't. Now they don't get my $39.95 a month, period. Nor does anyone
else, of course, but what the hell.

Charlie Self
"Work like you don't need the money. Love like you've never been hurt. Dance
like nobody's watching." Satchel Paige

http://hometown.aol.com/charliediy/m.../business.html

I have a motion detector that is tied to the system installed in the
house... the shop is a 30'X36' building set back from the rear of the house.
Both installed at time of building.
Tom
"Upscale" wrote in message
e.rogers.com...
Just saw some pictures for a great new home workshop in abpw. It occurred
to
me that I haven't seen much discussion on people protecting their
investments in regards to theft.

How are you protecting your standalone shops (aside from your pit bull)
from
possible theft? How many have actually implemented an alarm system? Of
course some of this may depend on locale, but I'd be interested in hearing
comments.

Blue wrote:
Relatively safe? That's what I thought. All of a sudden the little thugs are
breaking into houses and cars like crazy here in my little rural slice of
VA. Talked to a trooper the other day and he said "Well around here, if we,
or the County police don't get them soon, well be picking them up just
inside someone's door and putting them in a body bag."

At least it keeps down the number of repeat offenders. Last time I
cocked my Colt in somebody's ear they dropped a load. Made them clean
it up before I turned them over to the police. Better than cleaning
them off the ceiling.

Dave in Fairfax
--
reply-to doesn't work
use:
daveldr at att dot net
American Association of Woodturners
http://www.woodturner.org
Capital Area Woodturners
http://www.capwoodturners.org/

On Wed, 28 Jan 2004 04:32:03 GMT, "Jim Giblin"
wrote:

A corollary to monitoring for theft is the potential for fire.

This is the primary reason I have a system. By the time neighbors
notice smoke, it might be too late.

I have standard smoke and heat detectors, which I blow out with canned
air on a regular basis. I've found that my detectors usually falsely
trigger when dirty, others may not.

On occasion, I'll test the smoke heads with the canned stuff sold in
hardware stores and see how long the monitoring company's response
takes.

Barry

In article 1075236547.924306@sj-nntpcache-3,
BRuce wrote:
understood, works about the same way here in NC. We did have a big case
a few years ago where a guy found a group of teens stealing stuff from
his garage and shot one of them in the back. Case went to court and he
was found guilty because they did not pose a threat to him but judge
gave him a suspended sentence due to circumstances. I wouldn't want the
aggravation of a court appearance so i would probably wait for them to
com back for "seconds" and shoot them on the way in. :-)


*MOST* states have a "fleeing felon" statute, which makes any party who
commits a felony 'fair game' AS THEY ARE LEAVING THE SCENE.

Simple 'trespassing' is almost always a misdemeanor. as is "Simple B&E".
"Larceny in the Night Time" is a different story.

On Wed, 28 Jan 2004 12:38:26 +0000,
(Robert Bonomi) wrote:

|In article 1075236547.924306@sj-nntpcache-3,
|BRuce wrote:
|understood, works about the same way here in NC. We did have a big case
|a few years ago where a guy found a group of teens stealing stuff from
|his garage and shot one of them in the back. Case went to court and he
|was found guilty because they did not pose a threat to him but judge
|gave him a suspended sentence due to circumstances. I wouldn't want the
|aggravation of a court appearance so i would probably wait for them to
|com back for "seconds" and shoot them on the way in. :-)
|
|
|*MOST* states have a "fleeing felon" statute, which makes any party who
|commits a felony 'fair game' AS THEY ARE LEAVING THE SCENE.

Don't try that in Arizona. In fact defense of *property* using deadly
force is seldom justified. In the case of arson maybe, otherwise I
don't think so.

See: http://www.azleg.state.az.us/Arizona...s.asp?Title=13

Also, the law is not what the legislature says it is, it is what the
*judge* says it is. For example ARS 13-413 says that you can't be
sued for acting lawfully while using force against another. Yet
lawsuits are routinely brought by perps and their families and the
judges gleefully permit them.

Another example: ARS 13-3102 (F) specifically says that a weapon can
be carried concealed in a means of transportation in a holster,
scabbard or case designed to carry the weapon. Yet people are
routinely charged and convicted for doing just that.

My concealed carry instructor (retired sheriff's weapons training
officer) told us that even though I have a permit, if my weapon is in
the glove compartment and I have a passenger who doesn't have a
permit, they "have immediate access" and can be charged. So my usual
passenger SWMBO has her permit too.

charlie penned...Don't kid yourself. A basement full of water is less
fun than a swimming pool.

I figured that's what he meant. I have looked at these in the past,
in connection with a shutoff switch for my water softenener, as it
empties into the sump. If my sump pump fails, my basement would flood
with salt water. Not good.

Joe

On Wed, 28 Jan 2004 08:26:17 -0700, Wes Stewart
wrote:


Also, the law is not what the legislature says it is, it is what the
*judge* says it is. For example ARS 13-413 says that you can't be
sued for acting lawfully while using force against another. Yet
lawsuits are routinely brought by perps and their families and the
judges gleefully permit them.


I've never heard of my local DA prosecuting anyone for using force
against a home invader.

IMHO, you break in to someone's home, you take your chances. Nothing
would've happened if the perp hadn't chosen to commit a crime.

otforme (Charlie Self) writes:

Their costs were the same after I dropped the account as before, so there's not
exactly a lot of problem that I can see with changing it before they ****ed me
off. They didn't. Now they don't get my $39.95 a month, period. Nor does anyone
else, of course, but what the hell.

Is it any wonder their stock has dropped like a rock since
the IPO? [See the article in this week's Newsweek.]

In my case, they stiffed me for $50 of unused time. I'd
refreshed my account via their Web site the day my account
was to expire and they said all was copacetic. The next
day I couldn't use the phone. I found that the fine print
in the contract says that one's account expires at midnight
the day /before/ the "expiration date" and the Web site had
blithely taken my renewal and pitched it into the dirty bit
bucket. When I suggested that they could be a bit lenient,
I was told, in effect, tough cookies.

I received a (form) letter awhile back from them asking if I
would be interested in becoming a customer again. I fired
off a missive suggesting that if they treated their existing
customers better, they wouldn't have so many ex-customers.

Big Joe responds:
charlie penned...Don't kid yourself. A basement full of water is less
fun than a swimming pool.

I figured that's what he meant. I have looked at these in the past,
in connection with a shutoff switch for my water softenener, as it
empties into the sump. If my sump pump fails, my basement would flood
with salt water. Not good.

For a fact. That might even be worse than the sloshing mess in my basement
after the fire. Good fortune in one respect: one piece of CPVC in the entire
copper and cast iron system, and it was not to far from where the fire started.
It eventually melted and put the fire mostly out before the fire department was
even called.

But, jeez, whadda mess!

Charlie Self
"To create man was a quaint and original idea, but to add the sheep was
tautology." Mark Twain's Notebook

http://hometown.aol.com/charliediy/m.../business.html

Everett Greene responds:

Is it any wonder their stock has dropped like a rock since
the IPO? [See the article in this week's Newsweek.]

In my case, they stiffed me for $50 of unused time. I'd
refreshed my account via their Web site the day my account
was to expire and they said all was copacetic. The next
day I couldn't use the phone. I found that the fine print
in the contract says that one's account expires at midnight
the day /before/ the "expiration date" and the Web site had
blithely taken my renewal and pitched it into the dirty bit
bucket. When I suggested that they could be a bit lenient,
I was told, in effect, tough cookies.

Yeah, well basically that's the answer I got when I wanted to roam south
instead of north. Not both. Just a different one. Couldn't do it. Wouldn't do
it. So I cancelled and a week or so later, get a note saying they'd be glad to
make that arrangement. By now, of course, damned near everyone was beginning to
offer 'no roaming charges' for huge areas, so it would have been simple to pick
up another company, but...I found I didn't miss the cell phone, which I used to
forget and leave home some 80% of the time anyway. Why pay $40 a month for
something that gets used less than an hour a week?

I received a (form) letter awhile back from them asking if I
would be interested in becoming a customer again. I fired
off a missive suggesting that if they treated their existing
customers better, they wouldn't have so many ex-customers.


That's the MBA model: hype until you pump the initial figures, then sit back do
nothing unitl it collapses around your ears, at which time you wind up the hype
machine again.

Charlie Self
"To create man was a quaint and original idea, but to add the sheep was
tautology." Mark Twain's Notebook

http://hometown.aol.com/charliediy/m.../business.html

On Tue, 27 Jan 2004 16:25:20 GMT, "Upscale"
wrote:

Just saw some pictures for a great new home workshop in abpw. It occurred to
me that I haven't seen much discussion on people protecting their
investments in regards to theft.

How are you protecting your standalone shops (aside from your pit bull) from
possible theft? How many have actually implemented an alarm system? Of
course some of this may depend on locale, but I'd be interested in hearing
comments.



I ahve a detached shop, 10 feet from house. I bought a cheap motion
detector alarm that makes a loud local only alarm. The delay is set at
10 seconds. When I got it I had several of the local kids(potiential
theives) into the shop and forgot to disable the alarm. I them asked
them to wait, went inside , then walked out with the portable phone in
hand. I pretended to be talking the the sheriff office to report a
false alarm. I really sold the act to the kids. Have had no trouble
since then. If a new kid comes to the neighborhood and comes to the
house I make sure he sees the alarm.

Preception is a key to security.

Tue, Jan 27, 2004, 4:25pm (EST+5) (Upscale) queries:
snip How are you protecting your standalone shops (aside from your pit
bull) from possible theft? snip

No prob. The kid's dog barks. I provide the bite. If the first
magazine won't do it, I've got more.

JOAT
There's an old saying in Tennessee -- I know it's in Texas, it's
probably in Tennessee --that says, fool me once, shame on ... shame on
you. Fool me ... You can't get fooled again..
- G.W. Bush quoted by the Baltimore Sun - Oct 6, 2002

Life just ain't life without good music. - JOAT
Web Page Update 28 Jan 2004.
Some tunes I like.
http://community-2.webtv.net/Jakofal...OMETUNESILIKE/

charlie wrote ... Good fortune in one respect: one piece of CPVC in
the entire
copper and cast iron system, and it was not to far from where the fire started.
It eventually melted and put the fire mostly out before the fire department was
even called.


I had a similar incident with my first car back in the early eighties.
My "friend" got sick of waiting for me to say goodbye to a
girlfriend, and decided to take my car for a joy ride through the leaf
piles in the neighborhood. It was one of those fall days where
everyone has raked their leaves into the street for the city to come
by and suck up with one of those oversized shop-vacs. He discovered
how fun it is to go bouncing off them at 30mph. Later as we were
driving home, you guessed it, flames start shooting out from under the
hood as I'm heading down the main drag. We start arguing over whether
the fire would get worse if I pulled over or if I kept driving. It
was a short argument and I pulled over into a parking lot, opened the
hood, and woooffff, the fire indeed got worse. I ran to a nearby
office building and got the janitor to bring out a bucket of water.
When we got back to the car, the fire was out. It burned through the
radiator hose and put itself out. A few weeks later as I was
attempting to repair the damage in the engine compartment (what would
be a lost cause), I inspected the fuel line to find it had nearly
burned through. Made me wonder if the engineers designed the radiator
hose to burn through quicker.

Joe

Tue, Jan 27, 2004, 3:46pm BRuce says:
understood, works about the same way here in NC. snip

However (there is almost always a however), if you know they are
armed, and are running away from you, and you feel the person is running
to a protected area (behind a tree, etc.), where they will then shoot at
you, that could be an exception. In some states this would not be a
viable defense. In one state a woman was charged, when she shot (and I
believe killed) an intruder, who had chased her to her basement. The
claim was, she was "not cornered", and so not in imminent danger, that
she had an escape route she could have taken rather than shoot the
person - the basement window. I don't know the outcome of the case.
Not sure of the state, but seems it was Mass.

JOAT
There's an old saying in Tennessee -- I know it's in Texas, it's
probably in Tennessee --that says, fool me once, shame on ... shame on
you. Fool me ... You can't get fooled again..
- G.W. Bush quoted by the Baltimore Sun - Oct 6, 2002

Life just ain't life without good music. - JOAT
Web Page Update 28 Jan 2004.
Some tunes I like.
http://community-2.webtv.net/Jakofal...OMETUNESILIKE/

Wed, Jan 28, 2004, 4:33am (EST+5) (Blue)
says:
snip well be picking them up just inside someone's door and putting
them in a body bag."

I have to take my trash to the end of my drive.

JOAT
There's an old saying in Tennessee -- I know it's in Texas, it's
probably in Tennessee --that says, fool me once, shame on ... shame on
you. Fool me ... You can't get fooled again..
- G.W. Bush quoted by the Baltimore Sun - Oct 6, 2002

Life just ain't life without good music. - JOAT
Web Page Update 28 Jan 2004.
Some tunes I like.
http://community-2.webtv.net/Jakofal...OMETUNESILIKE/

JOAT responds:


However (there is almost always a however), if you know they are
armed, and are running away from you, and you feel the person is running
to a protected area (behind a tree, etc.), where they will then shoot at
you, that could be an exception. In some states this would not be a
viable defense. In one state a woman was charged, when she shot (and I
believe killed) an intruder, who had chased her to her basement. The
claim was, she was "not cornered", and so not in imminent danger, that
she had an escape route she could have taken rather than shoot the
person - the basement window. I don't know the outcome of the case.
Not sure of the state, but seems it was Mass.

Or NY. NY used to have, and probably still does, a "retreat until no retreat is
possible" piece of bull**** in its laws.

What makes more sense to me: in Roanoke, VA some years ago (5?), a guy followed
a woman home, kicked down the door to her home and was entering. She shot and
killed him. No charges filed.

Charlie Self
"To create man was a quaint and original idea, but to add the sheep was
tautology." Mark Twain's Notebook

http://hometown.aol.com/charliediy/m.../business.html

You realize of course, that I've been asking these alarm questions because
I'm scoping out areas for my next nocturnal visit. Now which of you guys has
an outdoor shop with no steps and a door that's at least 27" wide?

"T." wrote in message
...
Tue, Jan 27, 2004, 4:25pm (EST+5) (Upscale) queries:
snip How are you protecting your standalone shops (aside from your pit
bull) from possible theft? snip

No prob. The kid's dog barks. I provide the bite. If the first
magazine won't do it, I've got more.

JOAT
There's an old saying in Tennessee -- I know it's in Texas, it's
probably in Tennessee --that says, fool me once, shame on ... shame on
you. Fool me ... You can't get fooled again..
- G.W. Bush quoted by the Baltimore Sun - Oct 6, 2002

Life just ain't life without good music. - JOAT
Web Page Update 28 Jan 2004.
Some tunes I like.
http://community-2.webtv.net/Jakofal...OMETUNESILIKE/

now that is the way it should work. "imminent danger" seems to be the
key word and if somebody kicks in your door I would hope that would be
"imminent danger" enough.

let's hope it doesn't happen to any of us,

BRuce

Charlie Self wrote:
JOAT responds:


However (there is almost always a however), if you know they are
armed, and are running away from you, and you feel the person is running
to a protected area (behind a tree, etc.), where they will then shoot at
you, that could be an exception. In some states this would not be a
viable defense. In one state a woman was charged, when she shot (and I
believe killed) an intruder, who had chased her to her basement. The
claim was, she was "not cornered", and so not in imminent danger, that
she had an escape route she could have taken rather than shoot the
person - the basement window. I don't know the outcome of the case.
Not sure of the state, but seems it was Mass.


Or NY. NY used to have, and probably still does, a "retreat until no retreat is
possible" piece of bull**** in its laws.

What makes more sense to me: in Roanoke, VA some years ago (5?), a guy followed
a woman home, kicked down the door to her home and was entering. She shot and
killed him. No charges filed.

Charlie Self
"To create man was a quaint and original idea, but to add the sheep was
tautology." Mark Twain's Notebook

http://hometown.aol.com/charliediy/m.../business.html

--
---

BRuce