Got a wake up call yesterday. I work from home out of my garage.
Generally spend about 80% of my waking hours in the shop (or so it seems
sometimes...). Been gone most of the last week helping my parents move.
Last night a fellow two doors down (or a quarter mile along my dirt
road) came by to tell me he'd been robbed yesterday to the tune of about
$60k. There's been several thefts in the last two weeks in this area.
Time to think about security...
Surplus Center has a 4 zone alarm control for $120 that includes dial
out to 3 different numbers, and they have a variety of sensors. I'm
thinking of this setup, a cell phone, and having the cell phone as the
first call (911 would be second). In none of the local thefts, have
phone lines been cut. Getting a call while in town would likely give me
enough time to get home and block the top of the road with my truck to
prevent perps from getting away. Dead end roads are nice in that regard!
I could then check and see if indeed I'm being robbed, and if so make a
second call to 911.
With 911 response times around here approaching 45 minutes sometimes, I
have to try to insure perps don't get away with the tools I need to
support my family, thus my more direct approach vs relying on a service
like Brinks.

Anyway, would like to know if anyone here has experience with this unit,
good or bad.
It's catalog # 29-A-050, page 151 in the current catalog. Right next to
it is another unit with more sophisticated calling features with fewer
zones, and about $30 more.
I live in a two story, whole bottom floor is garage/shop. I have one
window over the washer/dryer and a wimpy door along the back wall to
worry about downstairs. Garage door opener makes that entry a bit of
work.
Upstairs only have one window and the front door to secure, so I don't
need too many sensors.
The other question is regarding windows and sensors. I see really
needing a breakage sensor on each pane, and a magnetic switch on the
moving window frame. Surplus center has a simple glass breakage sensor
at 7.95 and a fancy 46.95 unit that apparently doesn't need to attach to
the window.
There's also a vibration sensor and a shock sensor at 4.35 and 11.95
respectively. Thoughts on these?

I've done a bit of web browsing, and there's a bewildering array of
products out there. If there's any source with something better and/or
cheaper than Surplus Center's setup, would also appreciate hearing about
it.

Thanks,

Jon

"John L. Weatherly" wrote:

I would suggest a couple of motion detectors, door contacts, and
a 130dB+ siren tucked away under an eve of the roof, facing towards the
road.

I was thinking of a siren, but we're pretty rural. In addition, there's
a house about 1/4 mile away with a siren that goes off all the damned
time, and sometimes wails for 15 minutes (at 2 AM...)
so I don't know how far that'll go around here. These guys are pretty
professional, and probably have a good grasp of who's around and when.
Two cars have been spotted casing our road, but of course nobody got a
license number...

We don't have an alarm system; we've got dogs.

The neighbor's have a large dog, perps Maced it.


With respect to the system I saw in Surplus Center's catalog, while
further surfing and collecting info, I ran across this site:
http://www.smarthomeusa.com/ProductG...tworkx_panels/ and found the
same make/model number selling for a whole $33.95!!! Dang, I love the
internet. Looks like I can step up to a better system and still save
money.


Jon

Jon Anderson wrote:

Got a wake up call yesterday. I work from home out of my garage.
Generally spend about 80% of my waking hours in the shop (or so it seems
sometimes...). Been gone most of the last week helping my parents move.
Last night a fellow two doors down (or a quarter mile along my dirt
road) came by to tell me he'd been robbed yesterday to the tune of about
$60k. There's been several thefts in the last two weeks in this area.
Time to think about security...
Surplus Center has a 4 zone alarm control for $120 that includes dial
out to 3 different numbers, and they have a variety of sensors. I'm
thinking of this setup, a cell phone, and having the cell phone as the
first call (911 would be second). In none of the local thefts, have
phone lines been cut. Getting a call while in town would likely give me
enough time to get home and block the top of the road with my truck to
prevent perps from getting away. Dead end roads are nice in that regard!
I could then check and see if indeed I'm being robbed, and if so make a
second call to 911.
With 911 response times around here approaching 45 minutes sometimes, I
have to try to insure perps don't get away with the tools I need to
support my family, thus my more direct approach vs relying on a service
like Brinks.

Anyway, would like to know if anyone here has experience with this unit,
good or bad.
It's catalog # 29-A-050, page 151 in the current catalog. Right next to
it is another unit with more sophisticated calling features with fewer
zones, and about $30 more.
I live in a two story, whole bottom floor is garage/shop. I have one
window over the washer/dryer and a wimpy door along the back wall to
worry about downstairs. Garage door opener makes that entry a bit of
work.
Upstairs only have one window and the front door to secure, so I don't
need too many sensors.
The other question is regarding windows and sensors. I see really
needing a breakage sensor on each pane, and a magnetic switch on the
moving window frame. Surplus center has a simple glass breakage sensor
at 7.95 and a fancy 46.95 unit that apparently doesn't need to attach to
the window.
There's also a vibration sensor and a shock sensor at 4.35 and 11.95
respectively. Thoughts on these?

I've done a bit of web browsing, and there's a bewildering array of
products out there. If there's any source with something better and/or
cheaper than Surplus Center's setup, would also appreciate hearing about
it.

Thanks,

Jon


Place I used to work had area motion sensors which are unbeatable but
you can't use
them if something will be moving around like an oscillating fan, a cat
or CNC running by
itself.

Fred

Jon Anderson wrote:

The neighbor's have a large dog, perps Maced it.

Man, that really sucks. Our pups start raising Cain if someone so much as
darkens out driveway. I guess that's one good thing about living in town
(about the only thing).

Regarding security systems, I believe that if someone wants in, they going
to find a way in. All we can do is try to deter them as much as possible.
Just keep in mind, if you hook into a monitoring station, and have x number
of false alarms over y period of time the cops will give you a ticket.

When I grew up (not too long ago) you could leave you doors unlocked all the
time without getting ripped off. I guess times are a-changin.
--
John L. Weatherly
Nashville, TN

Please remove triple X's to reply via email

If you go to the bottom of the page, it lists the NX4 as
main control only for $33.95. Keypad, TX and hardware
separate. I couldn't find listings for the cost of these
items. Caveat emptor.
JR
Dweller in the cellar

Jon Anderson wrote:


With respect to the system I saw in Surplus Center's catalog, while
further surfing and collecting info, I ran across this site:
http://www.smarthomeusa.com/ProductG...tworkx_panels/ and found the
same make/model number selling for a whole $33.95!!! Dang, I love the
internet. Looks like I can step up to a better system and still save
money.

Jon

--
--------------------------------------------------------------
Home Page: http://www.seanet.com/~jasonrnorth
If you're not the lead dog, the view never changes
Doubt yourself, and the real world will eat you alive
The world doesn't revolve around you, it revolves around me
No skeletons in the closet; just decomposing corpses
--------------------------------------------------------------
Dependence is Vulnerability:
--------------------------------------------------------------
"Open the Pod Bay Doors please, Hal"
"I'm sorry, Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that.."

--You can't beat a junkyard dog and a shotgun.

--
"Steamboat Ed" Haas : Quando Omni
Hacking the Trailing Edge! : Flunkus Moritati
http://www.nmpproducts.com/intro.htm
---Decks a-wash in a sea of words---

In article ,
John L. Weatherly wrote:
Jon Anderson wrote:

The neighbor's have a large dog, perps Maced it.

Man, that really sucks. Our pups start raising Cain if someone so much as
darkens out driveway. I guess that's one good thing about living in town
(about the only thing).

Regarding security systems, I believe that if someone wants in, they going
to find a way in. All we can do is try to deter them as much as possible.
Just keep in mind, if you hook into a monitoring station, and have x number
of false alarms over y period of time the cops will give you a ticket.

When I grew up (not too long ago) you could leave you doors unlocked all the
time without getting ripped off. I guess times are a-changin.
--
John L. Weatherly
Nashville, TN

Please remove triple X's to reply via email

How about having the alarm system trigger a heated nozzle through which is
forced about a gallon of diluted glycerin. Think big theatrical smoke
machine here. Hard to take what you can't see and it is unpleasant to
breathe. Should also get the authorities there too. I believe heard about
this being done by the owner of an electronics store that was getting
smash-and-grab type robberies too often. Stopped them from what I heard.

-- Joe

--
Joseph M. Krzeszewski Mechanical Engineering and stuff
Jack of All Trades, Master of None... Yet

In article , Jon Anderson wrote:
"John L. Weatherly" wrote:

I would suggest a couple of motion detectors, door contacts, and
a 130dB+ siren tucked away under an eve of the roof, facing towards the
road.

I was thinking of a siren, but we're pretty rural. In addition, there's
a house about 1/4 mile away with a siren that goes off all the damned
time, and sometimes wails for 15 minutes (at 2 AM...)
so I don't know how far that'll go around here. These guys are pretty
professional, and probably have a good grasp of who's around and when.
Two cars have been spotted casing our road, but of course nobody got a
license number...

you should get, regardless of anything else, cameras and recorder/s.
this is one sure way to identify someone if you use the right install.
method/s.

the recorder/s have to be remote and unaccessable. cameras s/b thought
out, some dummies, some hidden. cops like these, too, and will be
very helpful if you ask. good luck, --Loren


We don't have an alarm system; we've got dogs.

The neighbor's have a large dog, perps Maced it.


With respect to the system I saw in Surplus Center's catalog, while
further surfing and collecting info, I ran across this site:
http://www.smarthomeusa.com/ProductG...tworkx_panels/ and found the
same make/model number selling for a whole $33.95!!! Dang, I love the
internet. Looks like I can step up to a better system and still save
money.


Jon

wrote:

How about having the alarm system trigger a heated nozzle through which is
forced about a gallon of diluted glycerin. Think big theatrical smoke
machine here. Hard to take what you can't see and it is unpleasant to
breathe. Should also get the authorities there too. I believe heard about
this being done by the owner of an electronics store that was getting
smash-and-grab type robberies too often. Stopped them from what I heard.

I used to have a load of military surplus 'battlefield simulation'
electrically triggered smoke canisters, which I had set aside for future
security systems (not for the house, of course; they would kill carpets.
More for places like workshops that get dusty anyway and are designed
easy to clean).

Sadly, setting them off was such fun that I used them all up, and post
9/11 the UK military has put an embargo on private sales of surplus
pyrotechnics :-(

My supplier - http://www.ribbands.co.uk/ - has quickly run out of stock...


-- Joe


ABS

steamer wrote:
--You can't beat a junkyard dog and a shotgun.

Maybe a pair of Doberman Rotweiler mix. They don't even have to bark.
Just stand there and look mean. :-)

--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com

In article ,
Jon Anderson wrote:

Surplus Center has a 4 zone alarm control for $120 that includes dial
out to 3 different numbers, and they have a variety of sensors. I'm
thinking of this setup, a cell phone, and having the cell phone as the
first call (911 would be second).

Forget 911, they will ignore the call (too many false alarms). Think
pager, not cell phone. You can easily modify a Radio Shack auto dialer
to call your pager and tell you what is going on. Since you process the
raw data with your brain you don't have to worry about false alarms.

For example, if someone drives up to my place my pager beeps 11-11
If they open the gate I see 12-12 (you Do have a gate!!)
If they turn my doorknob I see 13-13
If the back door opens I see 14-14
etc.......

The trick is to have many alarm points, some BEFORE actual breakin. If
you can 'see' them casing your place a week before hand you are ahead of
the curve.

--
free men own guns - slaves don't
www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/5357/

You can't beat the driveway alarm Surplus center has. Bury it out to where
the cars just turn in your driveway. It works by magnetic field interference
so you don't get false alarms from wildlife. Will really help you watch for
someone casing you out. Plus I don't like someone driving up and knocking on
my door while I'm indisposed. This gives me 90 - 150 seconds warning.

Check this site out for good product information:
http://www.homesecuritystore.com/

My security system calls a mointoring company. In our area the cops respond
to calls from a monitoring company but not directly from a system. I get a
break on insurance with this system - pays for itself.

I had three breakins by punks before security. None in 15 years after I've
installed it.

I'd consider the camera system to get photos of car driveups - not that
expensive anymore.

Karl

I have a great security system in my shop. Unfortunately it only
works while I'm there.

http://venus.blacksburg.net/~flanagan/rcm/Guncase.jpg

john

Please note that my return address is wrong due to the amount of junk email I get.
So please respond to this message through the newsgroup.

In article , Jon Anderson says...

Getting a call while in town would likely give me
enough time to get home and block the top of the road with my truck to
prevent perps from getting away. Dead end roads are nice in that regard!

Make your shop less attractive. Your idea of blocking
the road is good, how about a locked gate at the bottom
of your driveway?

Then toss a bunch of spend 12 gage shells around the
gate. Make 'em think a bit.

Jim

==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

In article , John Flanagan says...

http://venus.blacksburg.net/~flanagan/rcm/Guncase.jpg

Damn. If I had that welder, I'd shoot anyone
who tried to come into my shop, too!

Jim

==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

There is one other good thing after you decide on a security system. Some
electrical supply houses, Graybar I think, and probably some of the better
home security places sell a monitoring product that is a terrifically good
adjunct to a wired security system. I can't recall the name now but it is a
dial-up type monitor - a Google search would probably reveal the name. It
connects to your security system and has several functions: 1) The dial-up
is programmable to call numbers of your choice. 2) It alarms on either or
both "break-in" and "fire" contact closures from a security system. 3) It
dials the programmed number(s) on each occurrence and delivers a voice
message describing what is happening. It will keep dialing until you enter
an acknowledgment or reset code on the dial pad of a phone. 4) You can
call it at any time and enter a code to inquire about the status of the
premises. When interrogated remotely, a microphone on the unit opens and
lets you listen to the area for about 15 seconds.

I had one of these monitors about 10 years ago. As I recall, it sold for
around $100.

Bob Swinney



"Karl Townsend" wrote in message
k.net...
You can't beat the driveway alarm Surplus center has. Bury it out to where
the cars just turn in your driveway. It works by magnetic field
interference
so you don't get false alarms from wildlife. Will really help you watch
for
someone casing you out. Plus I don't like someone driving up and knocking
on
my door while I'm indisposed. This gives me 90 - 150 seconds warning.

Check this site out for good product information:
http://www.homesecuritystore.com/

My security system calls a mointoring company. In our area the cops
respond
to calls from a monitoring company but not directly from a system. I get a
break on insurance with this system - pays for itself.

I had three breakins by punks before security. None in 15 years after I've
installed it.

I'd consider the camera system to get photos of car driveups - not that
expensive anymore.

Karl

I love this group! Lots of great ideas and input.
This is a rental, and to our advantage, it looks closer to a trailer
trash type home than the surrounding mansions built by folks moving up
from the big cities. Would love to move but it's hard to find rentals
with 650 sq/ft of shop space and a landlord that approves of a machine
shop in the garage at a price about 1/2 the going rate....

Regarding autodialers and 911, I have a leg up there. Wife works for the
county jail and our home phone triggers a special alert at the 911
center. It will get a much better response than an average 911 call. (or
so we've been told) Still, I have found some monitoring services that
are very reasonable and the added weight that carries will probably lead
me to signing up with one.

I am going to install a wireless driveway sensor well up the road and it
will trigger a VCR to capture anyone driving in or out. I want to start
collecting license numbers of unknown cars.

I like the smoke idea. Would love to build a honkin' huge gate on the
driveway, but that's not perfect. House is two story, for the upstairs
all but the front door and kitchen window are inaccessible without a
ladder. Unfortunately 2nd story is level with the road and the deck has
a walkway right up to the road. A lot of stuff could still be carted off
pretty quickly.

Of course, my best defense is just being here, and most of the time I
am.

Appreciate all the great input!

Jon

I read this thread with interest, since I used to be a cop (10 years,
Oakland CA) and have owned an alarm company with central station
(monitoring) in Vallejo, CA for the past 25 years.

The thread contains a lot of good info, and some misinformation too. Most
police and sheriff departments do not accept unattended dialers to call 911
numbers. Not only will they be ignored, but it may well result in a fine as
it probably violates a local ordinance. So while programming a dialer to
call a pager may work, having it call the PD won't. You can have it call
neighbors etc. However all these options have some drawbacks.

When you get paged, you might be in a location or doing something that will
not allow you to be alerted. Or if you are alerted, you might not be able to
respond or call anyone to help. Calling a third party (not PD) and having
them respond, may put them in harm's way . . . some bad guys are armed too.

If the dialer gets a busy signal, it may, depending on design, give up. If
the calls go unanswered, if nobody's home, the dialer may go through its
repertoire . . . and then give up.

Motion detectors are available that are, either by design or placement,
compatible with most house pets . . . orangutans excepted. In the past
couple of decades, PIR based motion detectors have gone from primitive,
expensive and unreliable, to none of that today. Now they are cheap and
pretty darn good. (We don't use the cheapest units, finding that spending a
bit more on quality is worth the effort.)

Phone lines are rarely cut . . . but it happens. You might consider putting
in a fake phone drop that, if cut, will trip the alarm . . . though many
phone companies frown on you moving, hiding or messing with the phone
demark or incoming phone line block. Some alarm companies offer radio back
up monitoring. Many of these piggyback on the cellular phone system - -
perhaps not so good in terms of reliability. Some use two-way radio systems
and are owned by the alarm company - - more better, but requires a much larg
er capital investment by the company.

--
bumper
"Dare to be different . . . circle in sink."
to reply, the last half is right to left




---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.514 / Virus Database: 312 - Release Date: 8/30/2003

John Flanagan wrote:

I have a great security system in my shop. Unfortunately it only
works while I'm there.

http://venus.blacksburg.net/~flanagan/rcm/Guncase.jpg

john

Please note that my return address is wrong due to the amount of junk email I get.
So please respond to this message through the newsgroup.



As a security system, a friend hung paper targets on his fence. They were
the big police type with a human silhouette and big holes through the heart
and head.

Fred

JR North wrote:

If you go to the bottom of the page, it lists the NX4 as
main control only for $33.95. Keypad, TX and hardware
separate. I couldn't find listings for the cost of these
items. Caveat emptor.
JR
Dweller in the cellar

Jon Anderson wrote:


With respect to the system I saw in Surplus Center's catalog, while
further surfing and collecting info, I ran across this site:
http://www.smarthomeusa.com/ProductG...tworkx_panels/ and found the
same make/model number selling for a whole $33.95!!! Dang, I love the
internet. Looks like I can step up to a better system and still save
money.

Jon

I would suggest you be REAL cautious if you start looking at X10 style
stuff. I purchased some X10 wireless motion sensors to warn me when someone
came down my 1/4 mile long dirveway with a circle around the house. First
of all they misrepresented what was contained in the sale item; different
things on different WEB pages. The wireless stuff has maybe 1/3 the range
they claimed (even line of sight in the back ysrd). The motion detectors
would not reliably pick me up walkin past at 20 feet while it was sitting
on the oil tank in the back yard (positioned EXACTLY per instructions). I
installed a bridging capacitor across the 220 line so the transmitter would
be carried to both sides of the power line. Last week one of the outlets I
have an appliance module on (to control a radio) dicided to quit working.
Replacing the module made no difference. Both modules work just fine in
another socket on the same circuit across the room. There were NO wiring
changes or new equipment connections in the house between work and fails.
Note also that plugging in a good surge supressor to a circuit can "cut"
the line at that point as far as X10 signals is concerned. I ran into this
with the sat receiver in the den 8o(. I'm becoming a real believer in wire
the more I mess with this junk; I'm just not willing to trust my hide or
tools to wireless. BTW - Back in the early 60' I worked as an alarm
installer, and nobody ever got by one of our systems, so it's not my first
exposure g.
--
Keith Bowers - Thomasville, NC

On Sun, 07 Sep 2003 03:03:19 -0700, michael
wrote:

steamer wrote:

--You can't beat a junkyard dog and a shotgun.

--
"Steamboat Ed" Haas : Quando Omni
Hacking the Trailing Edge! : Flunkus Moritati
http://www.nmpproducts.com/intro.htm
---Decks a-wash in a sea of words---

I was thinking that myself. On further reflection, motion sensors and
tear gas. Skunk scent? Trip lines and snares are neat. If your snare
hangs them up from the ground and they get loose, well ****, who left
the pitchforks there? My apologies to the law and order crowd, but I'm
for ****in em up.

michael


Well..there is one way but its up to you to think of the ramifications
and any possible fallout....

Move your vehicle out of sight, fill up your mail box with old junk
mail, visible from the road, keep the lights out, maybe put a
cardboard box or two on your front step, if its visible from the road.

Pull a strand of string across the driveway, hooked to a spring switch
and a sounder inside the house as an early warning device (photo cell
anything that will detect a vehicle on your driveway)

Simply keep a few shotguns handy at hand, along with several people
with steady nerves and a good grasp of the legalities of apprehending
burglars (or a backhoe if you wish to make the problem permanently go
away and you don't much care about the niceties of the legal system),
and maintain this for about two-three weeks.

At some point, those bad people will discover no on is picking up your
mail, the boxes on the porch are still there and they will determine
you are gone from the place, and decide its easy pickings.

Try to let them break into something before dealing with them in which
ever manner you prefer. If nicety is not in your itinerary, at least
8' down and under a new wood pile is a pretty good depository for the
problem.

However..a live capture is probably the best, as they will be likely
to be willing to indicate where the other neighbors stuff went, and
recovery may be possible. I suggest obtaining that data, before they
are allowed to speak to an attorney or other functionary of the State.

Techniques in assisting disclosure of said items, may include (web
search terms) Bell Telephone Hour, The Submarine and similar.
Safe, effective, few lasting effects, simple and easy, but not for
those squeamish in nature.

Historically, once the problems enter custody of the State, the
representatives of the State typically no longer care about anything
other than a conviction, and the victims of the problems tend to get
ignored, along with their missing belongings.

Gunner

"At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child -
miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied,
demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless.
Liberalism is a philosphy of sniveling brats." -- P.J. O'Rourke

In article , Jon Anderson says...

I like the smoke idea. Would love to build a honkin' huge gate on the
driveway, but that's not perfect. House is two story, for the upstairs
all but the front door and kitchen window are inaccessible without a
ladder. Unfortunately 2nd story is level with the road and the deck has
a walkway right up to the road. A lot of stuff could still be carted off
pretty quickly.

Any gate at all would help, especially if it can be locked.
The idea here is to not make it impenetrable, just *more*
impenetrable than the neighbor's nearby.

The walkway right up to the road is obviously your first
problem that you need to address right away. If you can
make it five times tougher to carry away even a little bit
of stuff from the house, then the thieves will think twice
about doing you. Possibly securing the deck entrance
with some sort of impediment that's real tough to unlock
break defeat or move.

Jim

==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

I rummaged around ur site some and found the 'rednecks' photo. Dem boys
don't take care of things for you?
lg
no neat sig line

"John Flanagan" wrote in message
...


I have a great security system in my shop. Unfortunately it only
works while I'm there.

http://venus.blacksburg.net/~flanagan/rcm/Guncase.jpg

john

Please note that my return address is wrong due to the amount of junk
email I get.
So please respond to this message through the newsgroup.

My old man made up a system to protect his warehouse in the fifties. It was
prone to failure and false alarms.
The bell was mounted high up on the building and he religiously test
rang it every Friday before going home... The alarm was never put on any
more but the break-ins stopped.
Making the alarm system visible in some manner such as a test sounding
is a good deterrent.
Regular motion sensor lights are also good... just as long as the
fixture is up high and not easily accessible
Randy


"Jon Anderson" wrote in message
...
I love this group! Lots of great ideas and input.
This is a rental, and to our advantage, it looks closer to a trailer
trash type home than the surrounding mansions built by folks moving up
from the big cities. Would love to move but it's hard to find rentals
with 650 sq/ft of shop space and a landlord that approves of a machine
shop in the garage at a price about 1/2 the going rate....

Regarding autodialers and 911, I have a leg up there. Wife works for the
county jail and our home phone triggers a special alert at the 911
center. It will get a much better response than an average 911 call. (or
so we've been told) Still, I have found some monitoring services that
are very reasonable and the added weight that carries will probably lead
me to signing up with one.

I am going to install a wireless driveway sensor well up the road and it
will trigger a VCR to capture anyone driving in or out. I want to start
collecting license numbers of unknown cars.

I like the smoke idea. Would love to build a honkin' huge gate on the
driveway, but that's not perfect. House is two story, for the upstairs
all but the front door and kitchen window are inaccessible without a
ladder. Unfortunately 2nd story is level with the road and the deck has
a walkway right up to the road. A lot of stuff could still be carted off
pretty quickly.

Of course, my best defense is just being here, and most of the time I
am.

Appreciate all the great input!

Jon

Most readily available professional grade cctv camera's (not those cheap
Radio shack//web specials//X10) are still not able to capture license plate
images. Factors such as lighting, headlight glare, shutter speed,focusing
issues,and movement of the car make it very difficult even for fairly
expensive cctv cams to capture license plate info. There are camera's
available designed to do this, they use infrared illumination and high
shutter speeds, but those units cost about $3000 each. Additionally, your
recording device should run at least 10 frames per second, which rules out
time lapse VCR's, unless you want to change tapes every few hours. If you
record too slowly you will miss the shot of the license plate on a moving
car. So think in terms of a digital recorder with a 320 gb hard drive.
Overall a license plate capture system will cost ya $8000 - $10,000
professionally installed.

If you put one of those cheap camera's and a vcr don't expect much.


--
Tony

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Jon Anderson" wrote in message
...
I love this group! Lots of great ideas and input.
This is a rental, and to our advantage, it looks closer to a trailer
trash type home than the surrounding mansions built by folks moving up
from the big cities. Would love to move but it's hard to find rentals
with 650 sq/ft of shop space and a landlord that approves of a machine
shop in the garage at a price about 1/2 the going rate....

Regarding autodialers and 911, I have a leg up there. Wife works for the
county jail and our home phone triggers a special alert at the 911
center. It will get a much better response than an average 911 call. (or
so we've been told) Still, I have found some monitoring services that
are very reasonable and the added weight that carries will probably lead
me to signing up with one.

I am going to install a wireless driveway sensor well up the road and it
will trigger a VCR to capture anyone driving in or out. I want to start
collecting license numbers of unknown cars.

I like the smoke idea. Would love to build a honkin' huge gate on the
driveway, but that's not perfect. House is two story, for the upstairs
all but the front door and kitchen window are inaccessible without a
ladder. Unfortunately 2nd story is level with the road and the deck has
a walkway right up to the road. A lot of stuff could still be carted off
pretty quickly.

Of course, my best defense is just being here, and most of the time I
am.

Appreciate all the great input!

Jon

On 7 Sep 2003 08:18:30 -0700, jim rozen
wrote:

In article , John Flanagan says...

http://venus.blacksburg.net/~flanagan/rcm/Guncase.jpg

Damn. If I had that welder, I'd shoot anyone
who tried to come into my shop, too!

It's the nicest, and most expensive, piece of equipment I own. It
does a great job welding. Check out the fusion weld I did below. One
of the first tries. I clamped the sheet steel to an aluminum plate to
keep it flat and to absorb heat. Got nearly 100% penetration with a
flat bead only about 1/16" across. The weld is wiggly because I
couldn't hold my hand any stiller than that.

And I would shoot anyone coming into the shop for unlawful gain :^).
I've got too much money tied up in it and no insurance. Unfortunately
in Virginia I believe you have to retreat if you can, defending your
property is not allowed, only defending your life.

http://venus.blacksburg.net/~flanagan/rcm/Weld.jpg

John

Please note that my return address is wrong due to the amount of junk email I get.
So please respond to this message through the newsgroup.

You know all this alarm stuff could be a moot point. If I was a
burglar I would just pull the power meter off the side of the house.
There's usually just a small "proof of tampering" tag keeping anyone
from removing it.

If they do, "No more alarm system."

If you're going to secure your house with an AC powered alarm or a
phone dialer this and the phone line is the first thing I would
secure!


John

Please note that my return address is wrong due to the amount of junk email I get.
So please respond to this message through the newsgroup.

On Sun, 07 Sep 2003 17:49:07 GMT, ff wrote:

John Flanagan wrote:

I have a great security system in my shop. Unfortunately it only
works while I'm there.

http://venus.blacksburg.net/~flanagan/rcm/Guncase.jpg

john

Please note that my return address is wrong due to the amount of junk email I get.
So please respond to this message through the newsgroup.



As a security system, a friend hung paper targets on his fence. They were
the big police type with a human silhouette and big holes through the heart
and head.

Yea, I think I might move on to the next house if I saw that in a yard
:^).

I used to live out in the county. My roommate and I both left the
keys to our vehicles in the ignition over night, so we always knew
where they were in the morning. The house was never locked. We had
nice vehicles and there was all kinds of goodies in the house.

The benefits of living out in the country. It's that 1/4 mile
driveway and the fact that almost everyone around has a gun, most
likely five or six and they all know how to shoot them. You have to
come right up to the house before you can be sure no one is home.
Better for the burglar to drive into town.

John

Please note that my return address is wrong due to the amount of junk email I get.
So please respond to this message through the newsgroup.

On Mon, 08 Sep 2003 11:22:19 GMT, (John
Flanagan) wrote:

On 7 Sep 2003 08:18:30 -0700, jim rozen
wrote:

In article , John Flanagan says...

http://venus.blacksburg.net/~flanagan/rcm/Guncase.jpg

Damn. If I had that welder, I'd shoot anyone
who tried to come into my shop, too!

It's the nicest, and most expensive, piece of equipment I own. It
does a great job welding. Check out the fusion weld I did below. One
of the first tries. I clamped the sheet steel to an aluminum plate to
keep it flat and to absorb heat. Got nearly 100% penetration with a
flat bead only about 1/16" across. The weld is wiggly because I
couldn't hold my hand any stiller than that.

And I would shoot anyone coming into the shop for unlawful gain :^).
I've got too much money tied up in it and no insurance. Unfortunately
in Virginia I believe you have to retreat if you can, defending your
property is not allowed, only defending your life.

Just remember, in an inquest..if there is only one party to make a
statement.....

Gunner


http://venus.blacksburg.net/~flanagan/rcm/Weld.jpg

John

Please note that my return address is wrong due to the amount of junk email I get.
So please respond to this message through the newsgroup.

"At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child -
miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied,
demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless.
Liberalism is a philosphy of sniveling brats." -- P.J. O'Rourke

|In my limited experience with burg alarms, dealing with the dialer and
|monitoring stations are a big headache. My shop is similar to what you
|describe. I would suggest a couple of motion detectors, door contacts, and
|a 130dB+ siren tucked away under an eve of the roof, facing towards the
|road. Also, you'd be amazed how far just a "protected by" or "surveilance
|by" decal placed in conspicuous areas (door, window) goes against detering
|theft.

After my shop was cleaned out a few years ago, I installed a 2-zone unit from
Radio Shack, along with 2 door switches and a motion sensor. Oh yeah, the
decals and a big horn siren atop the building. I test the siren every so often
to put the more unsavory locals (my shop is in the middle of an older mobile
home community) on notice. No problems so far.

BTW, as I'm often needing to go to the shop and end up there without the key, I
bought one of those permanent mount keysafes like the realtors use. Made the
combination = the alarm code. Works like a charm, and I can let my kids or good
friends use it when I can't be there.
Rex in Fort Worth

|I was thinking of a siren, but we're pretty rural. In addition, there's
|a house about 1/4 mile away with a siren that goes off all the damned
|time, and sometimes wails for 15 minutes (at 2 AM...)
|so I don't know how far that'll go around here. These guys are pretty
|professional, and probably have a good grasp of who's around and when.

I always have several cars in the drive, and alternate usage. Same with the
wife. Unless they spent some real time casing us, they wouldn't know the house
is uninhabited.
Oh yeah, and the damned X10 switches turn on the living room lights every
evening around 7:30. Can't figure out why.
Rex in Fort Worth

On Sun, 07 Sep 2003 14:03:32 -0400, keith bowers
wrote:

|JR North wrote:
|
| If you go to the bottom of the page, it lists the NX4 as
| main control only for $33.95. Keypad, TX and hardware
| separate. I couldn't find listings for the cost of these
| items. Caveat emptor.
| JR
| Dweller in the cellar
|
| Jon Anderson wrote:
|
|
| With respect to the system I saw in Surplus Center's catalog, while
| further surfing and collecting info, I ran across this site:
| http://www.smarthomeusa.com/ProductG...tworkx_panels/ and found the
| same make/model number selling for a whole $33.95!!! Dang, I love the
| internet. Looks like I can step up to a better system and still save
| money.
|
| Jon
|
|I would suggest you be REAL cautious if you start looking at X10 style
|stuff. I purchased some X10 wireless motion sensors to warn me when someone
|came down my 1/4 mile long dirveway with a circle around the house. First
|of all they misrepresented what was contained in the sale item; different
|things on different WEB pages. The wireless stuff has maybe 1/3 the range
|they claimed (even line of sight in the back ysrd). The motion detectors
|would not reliably pick me up walkin past at 20 feet while it was sitting
|on the oil tank in the back yard (positioned EXACTLY per instructions). I
|installed a bridging capacitor across the 220 line so the transmitter would
|be carried to both sides of the power line. Last week one of the outlets I
|have an appliance module on (to control a radio) dicided to quit working.
|Replacing the module made no difference. Both modules work just fine in
|another socket on the same circuit across the room. There were NO wiring
|changes or new equipment connections in the house between work and fails.
|Note also that plugging in a good surge supressor to a circuit can "cut"
|the line at that point as far as X10 signals is concerned. I ran into this
|with the sat receiver in the den 8o(. I'm becoming a real believer in wire
|the more I mess with this junk; I'm just not willing to trust my hide or
|tools to wireless. BTW - Back in the early 60' I worked as an alarm
|installer, and nobody ever got by one of our systems, so it's not my first
|exposure g.
|--
|Keith Bowers - Thomasville, NC

I agree. If the OP wants to try X10 security, I have 2 of them I'll send him for
free.

Rex in Fort Worth

Rex B wrote:

|In my limited experience with burg alarms, dealing with the dialer and
|monitoring stations are a big headache. My shop is similar to what you
|describe. I would suggest a couple of motion detectors, door contacts,
|and a 130dB+ siren tucked away under an eve of the roof, facing towards
|the
|road. Also, you'd be amazed how far just a "protected by" or
|"surveilance by" decal placed in conspicuous areas (door, window) goes
|against detering theft.

After my shop was cleaned out a few years ago, I installed a 2-zone unit
from
Radio Shack, along with 2 door switches and a motion sensor. Oh yeah, the
decals and a big horn siren atop the building. I test the siren every so
often to put the more unsavory locals (my shop is in the middle of an
older mobile
home community) on notice. No problems so far.

BTW, as I'm often needing to go to the shop and end up there without the
key, I
bought one of those permanent mount keysafes like the realtors use. Made
the
combination = the alarm code. Works like a charm, and I can let my kids
or good friends use it when I can't be there.
Rex in Fort Worth
I seem to remember something in a magazine some time back about high
frequency/intensity noisemakers (tweeters maybe?) that would literally
drive you out of the area. Might be interesting inside the shop. Now if I
could just remember where I read about them.
--
Keith Bowers - Thomasville, NC

"John Flanagan" wrote in message
...


You know all this alarm stuff could be a moot point. If I was a
burglar I would just pull the power meter off the side of the house.
There's usually just a small "proof of tampering" tag keeping anyone
from removing it.



That will not work in our area!!
We have some new fangled meters that do not disconect power when removed.
Greg

Rex,

I wouldn't use X10 for security, but I would like to use it to randomly
turn lights on and off to give the appearance of someone being here. If
you really want to dump them, and they can be used in the more normal
X10 control fashion, I'd be interested in paying shipping.

Taking the first step to securing the place. Worst security problem is
the sash window above the washer/dryer, which has a 24" ventilation fan
in it. Anyone wanting to get in would have little trouble pushing the
fan back. Not now! Frame and 1/2"HR bars on 2.5" centers weigh about 70
lbs and look like they came from a prison.
I incorporated a couple louvered vents from the hardware store in the
lower half for the fan. This prevents anyone from looking through the
fan blades to scope out the garage. Going to put very dark limo window
tint on the upper pane. One down...

Jon

Geese.

the ultimate watch animal. a lot of corporations are using them on their
campuses to ward off intruders.

I have always wanted to just inert the shop while I was gone.
An atmosphere of all nitrogen or all CO2 would solve both burglary and
fire protection purposes. Might even help with rust!

On Sun, 7 Sep 2003 18:13:09 -0700, "larry g"
wrote:

I rummaged around ur site some and found the 'rednecks' photo. Dem boys
don't take care of things for you?

Ayes am dem boys :^). The good looking one on the right that is.
Classic photo. One of the best IMO (and worst) photos of my best
friend and I taken back in 1974 as freshmen in HS. Still friends too,
just drank some beer with him and got into a religious debate a few
days ago :^).

John

Please note that my return address is wrong due to the amount of junk email I get.
So please respond to this message through the newsgroup.

On Mon, 08 Sep 2003 19:21:12 -0700, Jon Anderson
wrote:

|Rex,
|
|I wouldn't use X10 for security, but I would like to use it to randomly
|turn lights on and off to give the appearance of someone being here. If
|you really want to dump them, and they can be used in the more normal
|X10 control fashion, I'd be interested in paying shipping.

It won't do that. The base unit just takes RF (?) signals from mag switches and
a motion sensor and sets of an alarm on the base unit. I believe it includes a
dialer, and possible would trigger an external siren. It's been a while since I
looked at it.
Beyond that, you can add light switches etc so you can work them with a
remote control. But you cannot automate the switches unless you also upgrade.
You would be better off getting a a PC-based home automation controler from
Smarthome.com or X10-com. Check out -both sites and you will get some good
ideas. You should be able to get what you need for $100 or less.
One interesting option in X10 is to add cameras. If your PC is on a DSL or
similar, you can monitor the cameras from your office (or shop) PC via the
internet.
At my house, I have two X10 outdoor floodlights. Each can turn on up to 4
X10 switches anywhere in the house, with some limitations. I have the one at
the front corner turning on the porchlight, and the rear leight turns on the
carport light. It can also sound a chime inside, but I found that annoyng.
When this wakes you up at night, you can turn them all off with the remote
beside the bed. The lights are available for about $80 /pair, and they are
well-made X10 light switches run about $10, but Smarthome has some that look
nicer.

All this X10 stuff is surprisingly cheap, but it's only about 90% reliable.
Not that they fail, but they can go on due to a power spike or planetary
alignment or ? Minor annoyance for the money and convenience.

|Taking the first step to securing the place. Worst security problem is
|the sash window above the washer/dryer, which has a 24" ventilation fan
|in it. Anyone wanting to get in would have little trouble pushing the
|fan back. Not now! Frame and 1/2"HR bars on 2.5" centers weigh about 70
|lbs and look like they came from a prison.
|I incorporated a couple louvered vents from the hardware store in the
|lower half for the fan. This prevents anyone from looking through the
|fan blades to scope out the garage. Going to put very dark limo window
|tint on the upper pane. One down...
|
|Jon

Rex in Fort Worth

In article , John Flanagan says...

just drank some beer with him and got into a religious debate a few
days ago :^).

Well now there's a suprise. The latter, that is.



Jim

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