Well, my errant finger pressed the order button on a new Porter Cable
895PK router kit last week, sight unseen. The UPS man delivered it
today and I'm a little sorry now that I didn't wait to see one of
these in person. Perhaps it's me, but this thing comes off as a
quickly designed and assembled collection of cheaply cast Chinese
aluminum, replete with peeling labels and plastic parts. The box
proudly proclaims, "Made in the USA of US and Imported parts." I get
the definite impression that most all the parts are coming from an
offshore Chinese factory. I even considered the possibility that
perhaps Tool-Crib was selling clone knock-offs of the real thing...

I'm used to the substance and feel of the venerable 690 series
routers, with well machined collets, heavy duty steel locking levers
and the substantial thickness of the housings.

To save anyone else from the shock of opening that box for the first
time, I am posting a few 'first impressions'. I'll follow up with a
more detailed review of the unit's actual performance at a later date.
(Read - when it's not 32F in the shop!)

Overall impressions
---------------------------------------------
Packaging/Unit in General:
---------------------------------------------
Upon opening the huge blow molded case, I was shocked to find a
variety of labels laying throughout the case. Most of the labels
refuse to stick to the router, and either fell off in shipping, or are
peeling off as I write this. Even the 1/32"/rev marker label on the
plunge router base stop adjustment screw peeled off. Some of the
label fonts (i.e. The Motor ID label) look like they were printed with
a dot matrix printer. The collets are of poor quality, at least in
comparison to the older PC models, and the machine work is obviously
offshore. The collet wrench is soft stamped steel, again, offshore.
The black blow molded case(s) is/are a two piece design, each with
storage for five 1/2" and five 1/4" bits and the collets, as well as
template guides, collet wrench and height adjustment rod. They can be
separated into two identical units, each with storage for the
appropriate base. Each case may be used as a router pedestal, with
knockouts on the bottom for standing the router upright with a bit
installed. The top and bottom are not hinged but are of a clamshell
design, being held together with metal flip-clasps.

Fixed Base:
---------------------
Although the various angles on the base are very rounded, the finish
of the sand castings is very consistent, and the forms used were
smoothed well before production, the housings on this base are
extremely thin wall, and the router body locking lever is very thin
aluminum - I thought it would crack the first time I engaged it. The
actuating clamp tangs are so thin that after just a couple of
operations, the aluminum is coming off in slivers. Additionally, the
lever just flops around in the base. The height adjustment worm
appears to be metal, as is the rack on the router body. - but the worm
has just one thread of engagement, and is rather sloppy at that. The
base plate is clear plastic, but I'm unsure whether it is styrene or
polycarbonate. Unfortunately, it is filled with open ribs and valleys
that catch every piece of debris that falls - making the clear base
impossible to see through when used upright. You cannot use a
template guide with this base plate. The hand hold knobs are
reasonably well formed, although they strongly emit the most peculiar
odor... The router collet locking pin is hardened steel and may be
actuated automatically by a movable tang, which engages at full router
depth. This behavior may be overridden by moving the tang. The tang
is metal, but sloppy in fit, and hard to move reliably. You may also
press the collet lock pin with a finger. The macro-adjustment release
lever is plastic and spring loaded, but seems to operate smoothly. My
biggest complaint about this base is that it is designed, as supplied,
solely for use in a router table. And therein lies the rub. The
router body release lever and the micro adjustment are tiny 3/16" hex
headed shafts of soft metal which show signs of wear after a couple of
operations. The included adjustment shaft is hardened steel, with a
large plastic knob and plastic depth adjustment scale. The biggest
problem with this arrangement is that, although you can lock and
unlock the router body and make fine adjustments from above the router
table, major changes still require access to the macro-release tang on
the base body - requiring you to reach inside the router table dust
collection box to access the lever from underneath. You could
conceivably twist on the micro-adjustment, but at 1/8" per revolution,
it could take a while, additionally accelerating the wear of the
shafts mentioned previously. See also: comments concerning the power
switch in the router motor evaluation.

Plunge Base:
---------------------
Fortunately, there is more to like here - barely. The castings are,
again, very smooth, but considerably more substantial in mass. The
hand grips are identical to the fixed base grips - replete with the
same strange odor... The same collet lock pin actuator is present,
just as sloppy, but slightly easier to actuate. The labels on this
body are applied haphazardly as well as on the others - the PC label
on front is canted by about 10 degrees. That is, until it falls off
like the others have.

The plunge stop has 3 adjustable stops - two with allen head screws
and hex stop nuts, and one thumbscrew adjustment with 32 TPI. The
adjustment rate label for this stop peeled off and will not stay on.
That gives a total of four (4) stops, including the default - which is
the router base itself. The stop rod is an aluminum sleeve with a
soft steel turret which rotates inside. It is movable with a
thumb/finger while holding the grips. There is a movable plastic
hairline(?!) marker that locks with a thumbscrew. Amazingly, however,
you cannot see the scale label (also peeling) through the translucent
plastic of the hairline! What on earth were they thinking with THIS
idea? Additionally, the distance between the hairline (more of a
blunt felt tip line than a hairline) and the scale is about 1/4" -
leading to parallax errors. That is, IF your could even SEE the
scale!

The router body latch is more like the familiar metal design on the
690 series - all steel with a nut adjustment for clamp pressure. The
router sub-base is also the more familiar PC design, with a ledge for
using PC template guides. There is a clear plastic dust shield over
this, with a non-removable 1" OD (~3/4" ID) vacuum port for dust
collection present on the body itself. The spring loaded plunge base
has a spring loaded lever for height adjustments, and can be locked
into the released position for free plunge operations. I was amazed
to find that the router bit height can be changed as much as 1/8" by
pressing gently on the router grips while the plunge is locked. This
should make precision depth routing quite an interesting and
improbable experience. The plunge guide rods appear to be hardened
steel and the base does have bronze bushings riding on them - for all
the good it does. It turns out that only ONE of the guides is bushed
with sintered bronze, the other is plastic, which accounts for the
flex and bit movement.

Router Motor
-------------------------
The router motor itself is fairly quite, and has variable speed
(~10,000 - 23,000 RPM) and soft-start. The soft-start feature is
slightly disconcerting, however, as it comes up to speed somewhat
irregularly - sort of pulsing rather than smoothly. I was totally
appalled to find that the motor fields and rotor are NOT varnish
dipped or pressure impregnated - a must for a high speed motor - and
that the 6004RS bearings are made in China!

The imported, non-detachable power cord is sufficiently long at 10
feet, and has a rubberized strain relief 3" long at the motor housing.

The top power switch is relatively easy to operate, and shuts the
router off when set upside down on a flat surface while running (who
the hell does THAT?), but the lower switch is simply a plastic
mechanical slide that links to the upper switch and is quite difficult
to operate from the hole in the fixed router base. It is completely
unusable in the plunge base (great planning, guys!). This same
plastic slide is also what 'locks' the collet pin from engaging while
the power is applied. I can guarantee that running the router up to
max height while the switch is ON WILL break this slide. This means
that using the auto collet lock in a router table combined with a
remote power switch is problematic.

Overall
----------------
I'm not sure whether I will actually use thing or return it - but I DO
know that it makes my WELL used army green $65.00 B&D RP200 look
pretty good in comparison - dual bronze bushings on the plunge rods,
no discernable play in the plunge mech, easy to operate power switch
on the handle, good balance, and built in dust collection. It's main
problems are low power and a 1/4" collet.

It has been my experience that Chinese ball bearings don't hold up,
and that varnishing the windings in a high speed motor is mandatory.

I bought this because it was supposedly Made In USA / PC quality - but
it's not like anything I am familiar with. It is an assemblage of
Chinese pot metal and cheap labor, and I fear the only thing Made In
USA was the marketing department and the placement of the handles and
knobs on the router bases.

The included CD is a mix of heavy marketing propaganda and a couple of
extremely basic plans from Canadian based Oak Park Enterprises, LTD.
www.oak-park.com

101 - Heart Frame
102 - Book Ends (Incorrectly Identified as a Dovetail Book Stand)
103 - Magic Boxes

Also included is a series of hokey video clips that demonstrate
building a very simplistic benchtop router table from the 'stars' of
Public Television's 'The Router Workshop' - sponsored by?
You guessed it, Porter Cable.

Form your own conclusions...

Greg G.

Thanks for the comprehensive review Greg. I guess I'll stay in the left lane
for this exit sand keep on going.

'preciate the time you took to evaluate and write.

Rob

--

Remove CC for email and please visit our web site:
http://www.robswoodworking.com

Greg G. wrote in message
...

Well, my errant finger pressed the order button on a new Porter Cable
895PK router kit last week, sight unseen. The UPS man delivered it
today and I'm a little sorry now that I didn't wait to see one of
snipped


Overall
----------------
I'm not sure whether I will actually use thing or return it - but I DO
know that it makes my WELL used army green $65.00 B&D RP200 look
pretty good in comparison - dual bronze bushings on the plunge rods,
no discernable play in the plunge mech, easy to operate power switch
on the handle, good balance, and built in dust collection. It's main
problems are low power and a 1/4" collet.

It has been my experience that Chinese ball bearings don't hold up,
and that varnishing the windings in a high speed motor is mandatory.

I bought this because it was supposedly Made In USA / PC quality - but
it's not like anything I am familiar with. It is an assemblage of
Chinese pot metal and cheap labor, and I fear the only thing Made In
USA was the marketing department and the placement of the handles and
knobs on the router bases.

The included CD is a mix of heavy marketing propaganda and a couple of
extremely basic plans from Canadian based Oak Park Enterprises, LTD.
www.oak-park.com

101 - Heart Frame
102 - Book Ends (Incorrectly Identified as a Dovetail Book Stand)
103 - Magic Boxes

Also included is a series of hokey video clips that demonstrate
building a very simplistic benchtop router table from the 'stars' of
Public Television's 'The Router Workshop' - sponsored by?
You guessed it, Porter Cable.

Form your own conclusions...

Greg G.

Wow. Thanks for the review. I'll just steer clear of this model for now,
until PC has the time to fix their bugs (provided they have the will to do
so).

Rob Stokes thus spake:

Thanks for the comprehensive review Greg. I guess I'll stay in the left lane
for this exit sand keep on going.

'preciate the time you took to evaluate and write.

Hope I didn't rain on anyone's parade. I'm sure there are thousands
of these things under American Christmas Trees this year - but I was a
bit disappointed in this one - especially considering the favorable
pre$$ and marketing hype that went into it's release.

This was, of course, an initial review, and only time will tell how
well they hold up under daily use. Crooked labels that fall off and
such are not terminal, but generally ARE an outward display of
workmanship - or lack thereof. I really hate being the Beta tester
for a new model, on my dime, and should have waited till more
real-world usage reports were in before plunking down the bucks.

I'm pretty accurate at picking apart products and pointing out what
will fail and what won't - comes from a lifetime of electronics design
and repair work and from my youthful days as an automobile mechanic.
I like to buy things that last 20 years - I HATE changes & shopping!

I am in the market for a 14" bandsaw and a better tablesaw this year,
and this experience will factor in to what brands I will consider. If
I'm getting Chinese crap anyway, I'm cutting out the bloated marketing
departments of several big companies. Grizzly and General are far
higher up on the scale of probability that they were last week.

Greg G.

AL thus spake:

Wow. Thanks for the review. I'll just steer clear of this model for now,
until PC has the time to fix their bugs (provided they have the will to do
so).

All this, and an included CD that doesn't 'play' properly on Windows
2000 Pro. I had to watch the included router table AVI's with Media
Player to even view them - it wasn't worth the effort, however...
Also, the overview screen doesn't work - no biggy, just another
indicator of just how fast this unit was rushed to market - and why
the local stores don't seem to want to carry it yet.

I'm still fuming over how much of the promo material claims 'Made in
USA' - what a crock!

Greg G.

Yabbut, you got _perspective_, Greg ... you know what the real stuff is and
can make the comparison. Pity the poor guy who can't. It's sad really.
Thanks for taking the time to review it.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 12/18/03


Greg G. wrote in message

Hope I didn't rain on anyone's parade. I'm sure there are thousands
of these things under American Christmas Trees this year - but I was a
bit disappointed in this one - especially considering the favorable
pre$$ and marketing hype that went into it's release.

In article , Greg G. says...
AL thus spake:

Wow. Thanks for the review. I'll just steer clear of this model for now,
until PC has the time to fix their bugs (provided they have the will to do
so).

All this, and an included CD that doesn't 'play' properly on Windows
2000 Pro. I had to watch the included router table AVI's with Media
Player to even view them - it wasn't worth the effort, however...
Also, the overview screen doesn't work - no biggy, just another
indicator of just how fast this unit was rushed to market - and why
the local stores don't seem to want to carry it yet.

I'm still fuming over how much of the promo material claims 'Made in
USA' - what a crock!

Greg G.



Worse than that, it gives the impression that "Made in USA" = "Piece
of worthless crud"

Swingman thus spake:

Yabbut, you got _perspective_, Greg ... you know what the real stuff is and
can make the comparison. Pity the poor guy who can't. It's sad really.
Thanks for taking the time to review it.

Thanks.
I really hated dissing the unit, I had high hopes for it - enough to
have plunked down $220 - sight unseen. I suppose it did come off
pretty badly. I read the post over for accuracy before deciding to
post, but ultimately did. Too bad PC/Delta didn't spend 10 minutes
with this unit to discover it's patent flaws before public release.
The brief mentions I have seen in various magazines seemed favorable,
so much for literary integrity. $$$

With that said, I'm sure some will disagree with my initial
evaluation, and may even get some useful work from it without ever
having noticed my points of contention. Perhaps Chinese ball bearings
are better than SKFs or Timkens these days. I just felt it was not up
to the professional standards set by Porter Cable themselves in terms
of quality and accuracy. Not to mention the thinly veiled offshore
manufacturing - claiming to be made in USA. This is just another sign
that apparently we, as American workers, cannot compete in a brisk
world marketplace. There is an ongoing hyperkinetic rush to build
overseas, and it bugs the hell out of me as I watch manufacturing
plants close all over the US - and product quality dip to new lows.

I have lived with cheap tools that, for instance, won't maintain
accurate depths of cut. A 1/8" variation in depth - or worse, a
angular skew of the bit - is not acceptable in my vision of a
professional tool. The human error factor is bad enough. This is
more what I would have expected from Ryobi or Skil product.

Sadly,
Greg

Greg, I wouldn't hesitate to post that review on the big sites like
e-opinion, etc, where the manufacturer will eventually hear about it.
Craftsmanship and integrity mean nothing to corporate management mentality.
The only way to get their attention is through the bottom line.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 12/18/03

Greg G. wrote in message

I really hated dissing the unit, I had high hopes for it - enough to
have plunked down $220 - sight unseen. I suppose it did come off
pretty badly. I read the post over for accuracy before deciding to
post, but ultimately did. Too bad PC/Delta didn't spend 10 minutes
with this unit to discover it's patent flaws before public release.
The brief mentions I have seen in various magazines seemed favorable,
so much for literary integrity. $$$

I think the best way to send a message to Porter Cable is to return the
router. If many dissatisfied customers do this, PC will see the larger than
expected number of returns (and their associated handling costs) show up on
their balance sheet. Then maybe they'll do something about it. But they
may continue to sell it as is for years (like the Bammer and 7529).

The review of this router was interesting to me because I have had this router
for about three weeks and my impressions of it are substantially different than
Gregs. My impressions are so different that when I started reading his review I
wondered whether Tool Crib may have sent him a Kitchen Aid blender by mistake.
If I were Greg, I would send that router back. It must have been assembled on
Monday morning by an employee suffering a hangover from a weekend long party.

I have only been doing woodworking for a few years am not an expert with
routers or woodworking. I had a low end router that I mainly used in a table.
I wanted something more accurate and I also wanted above the table height
adjustment. I looked at the Bosch routers and was very impressed but they did
not have the above table height adjustment. The Milwaukee did have the
adjustment but still I would have to reach under the table to release the router
before making the adjustment. The Porter Cable seemed to have everything I
wanted. It was only a few dollars more than the Milwaukee and it came with two
bases. I have actually used the router and have it mounted in my table. I'll
go through Greg's review and add my comments below.


Greg G. wrote:
:: Well, my errant finger pressed the order button on a new Porter Cable
:: 895PK router kit last week, sight unseen. The UPS man delivered it
:: today and I'm a little sorry now that I didn't wait to see one of
:: these in person. Perhaps it's me, but this thing comes off as a
:: quickly designed and assembled collection of cheaply cast Chinese
:: aluminum, replete with peeling labels and plastic parts. The box
:: proudly proclaims, "Made in the USA of US and Imported parts." I get
:: the definite impression that most all the parts are coming from an
:: offshore Chinese factory. I even considered the possibility that
:: perhaps Tool-Crib was selling clone knock-offs of the real thing...

:: I'm used to the substance and feel of the venerable 690 series
:: routers, with well machined collets, heavy duty steel locking levers
:: and the substantial thickness of the housings.


I am familiar with the 690 series and I don't feel that the 890 series has a
thinner thickness on the housings I went to Home Depot today and looked at a 690
and I did not see a difference in thickness. The collets seem to be the same
for both models.


:: To save anyone else from the shock of opening that box for the first
:: time, I am posting a few 'first impressions'. I'll follow up with a
:: more detailed review of the unit's actual performance at a later
:: date. (Read - when it's not 32F in the shop!)
::
:: Overall impressions
:: ---------------------------------------------
:: Packaging/Unit in General:
:: ---------------------------------------------
:: Upon opening the huge blow molded case, I was shocked to find a
:: variety of labels laying throughout the case. Most of the labels
:: refuse to stick to the router, and either fell off in shipping, or
:: are peeling off as I write this. Even the 1/32"/rev marker label on
:: the plunge router base stop adjustment screw peeled off. Some of the
:: label fonts (i.e. The Motor ID label) look like they were printed
:: with a dot matrix printer. The collets are of poor quality, at
:: least in comparison to the older PC models, and the machine work is
:: obviously offshore. The collet wrench is soft stamped steel, again,
:: offshore. The black blow molded case(s) is/are a two piece design,
:: each with storage for five 1/2" and five 1/4" bits and the collets,
:: as well as template guides, collet wrench and height adjustment rod.
:: They can be separated into two identical units, each with storage
:: for the appropriate base. Each case may be used as a router
:: pedestal, with knockouts on the bottom for standing the router
:: upright with a bit installed. The top and bottom are not hinged but
:: are of a clamshell design, being held together with metal flip-
:: clasps.
::

All of the labels on mine were properly attached. None were loose. The Main
Porter Cable label is slightly crooked. The collet wrench is of poor quality.


:: Fixed Base:
:: ---------------------
:: Although the various angles on the base are very rounded, the finish
:: of the sand castings is very consistent, and the forms used were
:: smoothed well before production, the housings on this base are
:: extremely thin wall, and the router body locking lever is very thin
:: aluminum - I thought it would crack the first time I engaged it. The
:: actuating clamp tangs are so thin that after just a couple of
:: operations, the aluminum is coming off in slivers. Additionally, the
:: lever just flops around in the base. The height adjustment worm
:: appears to be metal, as is the rack on the router body. - but the
:: worm has just one thread of engagement, and is rather sloppy at
:: that. The base plate is clear plastic, but I'm unsure whether it is
:: styrene or polycarbonate. Unfortunately, it is filled with open
:: ribs and valleys that catch every piece of debris that falls -
:: making the clear base impossible to see through when used upright.
:: You cannot use a template guide with this base plate. The hand hold
:: knobs are reasonably well formed, although they strongly emit the
:: most peculiar odor... The router collet locking pin is hardened
:: steel and may be actuated automatically by a movable tang, which
:: engages at full router depth. This behavior may be overridden by
:: moving the tang. The tang is metal, but sloppy in fit, and hard to
:: move reliably. You may also press the collet lock pin with a
:: finger. The macro-adjustment release lever is plastic and spring
:: loaded, but seems to operate smoothly. My biggest complaint about
:: this base is that it is designed, as supplied, solely for use in a
:: router table. And therein lies the rub. The router body release
:: lever and the micro adjustment are tiny 3/16" hex headed shafts of
:: soft metal which show signs of wear after a couple of operations.
:: The included adjustment shaft is hardened steel, with a large
:: plastic knob and plastic depth adjustment scale. The biggest
:: problem with this arrangement is that, although you can lock and
:: unlock the router body and make fine adjustments from above the
:: router table, major changes still require access to the macro-
:: release tang on the base body - requiring you to reach inside the
:: router table dust collection box to access the lever from
:: underneath. You could conceivably twist on the micro-adjustment,
:: but at 1/8" per revolution, it could take a while, additionally
:: accelerating the wear of the shafts mentioned previously. See also: comments
concerning the power switch in the router motor evaluation.
::


The housings are different than the 690 series. They are not as smooth and
Porter Cable may have saved some money here but the machining is excellent. I
don't care if my tools are "pretty". I want them to be reliable, accurate,
consistent and safe. Others may feel differently. I don't feel the locking
lever is too thin and I can not see how it could ever break unless the router
was dropped. The height adjustment works flawlessly in a table and is not at
all sloppy. The odor from the hand knobs reinforces my employee hangover theory
because mine do not emit any odor at all. The collet locking part is somewhat
sloppy in its fit but it does work very well on the fixed base. The adjustment
shafts are not made of soft metal. They are diffinately hardened. They work
well above the table. I can unlock the router and then use my electric
screwdriver with a 3/16" socket to raise the router quickly. The supplied tool
to make small adjustments works very well.


:: Plunge Base:
:: ---------------------
:: Fortunately, there is more to like here - barely. The castings are,
:: again, very smooth, but considerably more substantial in mass. The
:: hand grips are identical to the fixed base grips - replete with the
:: same strange odor... The same collet lock pin actuator is present,
:: just as sloppy, but slightly easier to actuate. The labels on this
:: body are applied haphazardly as well as on the others - the PC label
:: on front is canted by about 10 degrees. That is, until it falls off
:: like the others have.
::
:: The plunge stop has 3 adjustable stops - two with allen head screws
:: and hex stop nuts, and one thumbscrew adjustment with 32 TPI. The
:: adjustment rate label for this stop peeled off and will not stay on.
:: That gives a total of four (4) stops, including the default - which
:: is the router base itself. The stop rod is an aluminum sleeve with a
:: soft steel turret which rotates inside. It is movable with a
:: thumb/finger while holding the grips. There is a movable plastic
:: hairline(?!) marker that locks with a thumbscrew. Amazingly,
:: however, you cannot see the scale label (also peeling) through the
:: translucent plastic of the hairline! What on earth were they
:: thinking with THIS idea? Additionally, the distance between the
:: hairline (more of a blunt felt tip line than a hairline) and the
:: scale is about 1/4" - leading to parallax errors. That is, IF your
:: could even SEE the scale!
::
:: The router body latch is more like the familiar metal design on the
:: 690 series - all steel with a nut adjustment for clamp pressure. The
:: router sub-base is also the more familiar PC design, with a ledge for
:: using PC template guides. There is a clear plastic dust shield over
:: this, with a non-removable 1" OD (~3/4" ID) vacuum port for dust
:: collection present on the body itself. The spring loaded plunge base
:: has a spring loaded lever for height adjustments, and can be locked
:: into the released position for free plunge operations. I was amazed
:: to find that the router bit height can be changed as much as 1/8" by
:: pressing gently on the router grips while the plunge is locked. This
:: should make precision depth routing quite an interesting and
:: improbable experience. The plunge guide rods appear to be hardened
:: steel and the base does have bronze bushings riding on them - for all
:: the good it does. It turns out that only ONE of the guides is bushed
:: with sintered bronze, the other is plastic, which accounts for the
:: flex and bit movement.


The collet lock on my plunge base does not work. The router does not go down
far enough to activate the lock. I doubt I would use the lock on this base
anyway but it is a flaw. I have no problem seeing the scale through the plastic
and my 58 year old eyes are not what they used to be. However, it could be
better. I usually use setup bars on a plunge base anyway and never look at the
scale on the router. The next point is probably the most serious problem Greg
found in his review. He was able to change the bit height by pressing on the
router grips. I have tried to duplicate this but I can not. I tried pushing
everyway I could on the plunge base and the depth of the cut stayed the same.
There is no flex in mine and it is much smoother than the 690 series plunge
base. I can not see how his got through any type of quality control with a
defect like this. The router also has power to spare and runs very smooth and
quiet.


:: Router Motor
:: -------------------------
:: The router motor itself is fairly quite, and has variable speed
:: (~10,000 - 23,000 RPM) and soft-start. The soft-start feature is
:: slightly disconcerting, however, as it comes up to speed somewhat
:: irregularly - sort of pulsing rather than smoothly. I was totally
:: appalled to find that the motor fields and rotor are NOT varnish
:: dipped or pressure impregnated - a must for a high speed motor - and
:: that the 6004RS bearings are made in China!
::
:: The imported, non-detachable power cord is sufficiently long at 10
:: feet, and has a rubberized strain relief 3" long at the motor
:: housing.
::
:: The top power switch is relatively easy to operate, and shuts the
:: router off when set upside down on a flat surface while running (who
:: the hell does THAT?), but the lower switch is simply a plastic
:: mechanical slide that links to the upper switch and is quite
:: difficult to operate from the hole in the fixed router base. It is
:: completely unusable in the plunge base (great planning, guys!).
:: This same plastic slide is also what 'locks' the collet pin from
:: engaging while the power is applied. I can guarantee that running
:: the router up to max height while the switch is ON WILL break this
:: slide. This means that using the auto collet lock in a router table
:: combined with a remote power switch is problematic.

I don't know much about motors and nothing about varish or pressure impregnated
windings. If someone can explain the need for this to me, I would appreciate
it. I have never used a router at full plunge depth and I can see no situation
where I would need to. The slide could possibly break if this occured and the
auto lock was turned on. It is easily turned off. Since the collet lock does
not work on the plunge base, I don't think I will be too concerned with this.



:: Overall
:: ----------------
:: I'm not sure whether I will actually use thing or return it - but I
:: DO know that it makes my WELL used army green $65.00 B&D RP200 look
:: pretty good in comparison - dual bronze bushings on the plunge rods,
:: no discernable play in the plunge mech, easy to operate power switch
:: on the handle, good balance, and built in dust collection. It's main
:: problems are low power and a 1/4" collet.
::
:: It has been my experience that Chinese ball bearings don't hold up,
:: and that varnishing the windings in a high speed motor is mandatory.
::
:: I bought this because it was supposedly Made In USA / PC quality -
:: but it's not like anything I am familiar with. It is an assemblage
:: of Chinese pot metal and cheap labor, and I fear the only thing Made
:: In USA was the marketing department and the placement of the handles
:: and knobs on the router bases.
::
:: The included CD is a mix of heavy marketing propaganda and a couple
:: of extremely basic plans from Canadian based Oak Park Enterprises,
:: LTD. www.oak-park.com
::
:: 101 - Heart Frame
:: 102 - Book Ends (Incorrectly Identified as a Dovetail Book Stand)
:: 103 - Magic Boxes
::
:: Also included is a series of hokey video clips that demonstrate
:: building a very simplistic benchtop router table from the 'stars' of
:: Public Television's 'The Router Workshop' - sponsored by?
:: You guessed it, Porter Cable.
::
:: Form your own conclusions...
::
:: Greg G.



That made in the USA is a label I used to look for all the time. I kept buying
American made cars when everyone was telling me that they were junk. After my
wife got a foreign car, I realized that what everyone was telling me was right.
My American made car can not compare to her car. I really hate to admit this.
I think The Chinese have made tremendous improvements in quality control over
the last ten years and Made in China may not be so bad anymore. I don't know
what parts of this router were made in the USA. I would not describe it as made
of "Chinese pot metal and cheap labor". It's becoming a global economy whether
we want it to or not and we need to accept this change. I had no problem running
the CD but its content was not anything special.

I appreciate the time Greg took to do his review but I think that anyone
interested in a new router should take a look at this one and draw your own
conclusions. It has its faults and good points like any other product.

I would also like to thank everyone on this newsgroup for all of the excellent
answers to questions and the never ending humor that is always present here. I
think woodworkers have been blessed with more common sense and humor than the
rest of the population. I hope everyone has a Merry Christmas

Neal

Neal thus spake:

The review of this router was interesting to me because I have had this router
for about three weeks and my impressions of it are substantially different than
Gregs. My impressions are so different that when I started reading his review I
wondered whether Tool Crib may have sent him a Kitchen Aid blender by mistake.
If I were Greg, I would send that router back. It must have been assembled on
Monday morning by an employee suffering a hangover from a weekend long party.

Hi, Neal,

Thanks for the rebuttal. I have no problem with alternate views, and
in fact found it interesting that your model differed so radically
from mine. I have been wooddorking for 25 years or so, off and on, so
I *think* I could tell if they sent a blender by mistake. The blender
has rum in it, right? ;-)

I do have a few comments on your comments, however. They are
interspersed below.

I have only been doing woodworking for a few years am not an expert with
routers or woodworking. I had a low end router that I mainly used in a table.
I wanted something more accurate and I also wanted above the table height
adjustment. I looked at the Bosch routers and was very impressed but they did
not have the above table height adjustment. The Milwaukee did have the
adjustment but still I would have to reach under the table to release the router
before making the adjustment. The Porter Cable seemed to have everything I
wanted. It was only a few dollars more than the Milwaukee and it came with two
bases. I have actually used the router and have it mounted in my table. I'll
go through Greg's review and add my comments below.

This is also why I chose this model. Router table use with the fixed
base was one priority, without having to buy a $300 add-on lift. And
you DO have to reach under the table to fully release the router motor
with the PC, just not for minor adjustments. Moving it 2 1/2" at 1/8"
per rev isn't going to happen in my shop, however. A hex socket won't
fit through the baseplate, and I'm not all that thrilled about using
an electric screwdriver to move it anyway. None of this was the
deal-breaker, however.

I am familiar with the 690 series and I don't feel that the 890 series has a
thinner thickness on the housings I went to Home Depot today and looked at a 690
and I did not see a difference in thickness. The collets seem to be the same
for both models.

The thickness of the plunge base is fine, but the fixed base is far
lighter, IMHO. And the locking lever is very lightweight. Based on
my experience with air-cooled aluminum engines and such, the lever
feels like a fracture waiting to happen - too long, too curvey, and
too thin. IMO, they would have done well to have used a steel lever
as on the plunge base. Again, this wasn't the deal-breaker. But the
thin aluminum lever bearing on the steel friction plate of the clamp
is a bad idea, IMHO.

All of the labels on mine were properly attached. None were loose. The Main
Porter Cable label is slightly crooked. The collet wrench is of poor quality.

Pretty much in agreement here, other than the fact that the labels on
mine are/have peeled off. Not a deal-breaker, but annoying.

The housings are different than the 690 series. They are not as smooth and
Porter Cable may have saved some money here but the machining is excellent. I
don't care if my tools are "pretty". I want them to be reliable, accurate,
consistent and safe. Others may feel differently. I don't feel the locking
lever is too thin and I can not see how it could ever break unless the router
was dropped. The height adjustment works flawlessly in a table and is not at
all sloppy. The odor from the hand knobs reinforces my employee hangover theory
because mine do not emit any odor at all. The collet locking part is somewhat
sloppy in its fit but it does work very well on the fixed base. The adjustment
shafts are not made of soft metal. They are diffinately hardened. They work
well above the table. I can unlock the router and then use my electric
screwdriver with a 3/16" socket to raise the router quickly. The supplied tool
to make small adjustments works very well.

This is where our models diverge. The housing finish isn't bad, as I
stated. I also am not too concerned with appearance. But my
adjustment worm and rack clearance is extremely sloppy. This is a
model that you adjust UP to final position from below the desired
setting when in a router table. Gravity plays an important role in
where it ends up. My adjustment screws *are* soft metal. Can't give
you a durometer reading, 'cause the tools are at work. ;-) The
add-on shaft used to adjust through the router table IS hardened. But
the shaft on the router itself is soft, shiny steel. I can leave a
groove in it with the tip of a forcep. And again, a standard hex
socket won't fit through the baseplate, and I'm not all that thrilled
about using an electric screwdriver to move it anyway - just results
in accelerated wear, plus another tool to keep up with while working.

The collet lock on my plunge base does not work. The router does not go down
far enough to activate the lock. I doubt I would use the lock on this base
anyway but it is a flaw. I have no problem seeing the scale through the plastic
and my 58 year old eyes are not what they used to be. However, it could be
better. I usually use setup bars on a plunge base anyway and never look at the
scale on the router. The next point is probably the most serious problem Greg
found in his review. He was able to change the bit height by pressing on the
router grips. I have tried to duplicate this but I can not. I tried pushing
everyway I could on the plunge base and the depth of the cut stayed the same.
There is no flex in mine and it is much smoother than the 690 series plunge
base. I can not see how his got through any type of quality control with a
defect like this. The router also has power to spare and runs very smooth and
quiet.

My scale is unreadable. You cannot, and I stress the word cannot, see
through the plastic AT ALL. It is like frosted glass. I thought it
could have been from chemical exposure, but it so evenly frosted that
I discounted that possibility. Again, not a deal-breaker, as I also
do not use the scale for much. I have a micrometer for such things.

The deal-breaker for me, as you pointed out, is the slop in the plunge
base. The bushings in the right plunge column are plastic, and there
is an unacceptable (IMHO) amount of movement of the bit. I measured
it with a dial indicator, and with moderate pressure from ONE finger
on ONE plunge router grip, I get a bit height variation of .030" to
..067" depending on the depth of the plunge. Additionally, the bit
moves sideways from .025" - .044", again depending on the setting of
the plunge. The side with the bronze bushings stays put, while the
side with the plastic bushings flexes. It also makes a creaking
sound, and shudders when doing so. It is not smooth at all.

[Q] Are both of your post bushings bronze, or are they mixed?

I don't know much about motors and nothing about varish or pressure impregnated
windings. If someone can explain the need for this to me, I would appreciate
it. I have never used a router at full plunge depth and I can see no situation
where I would need to. The slide could possibly break if this occured and the
auto lock was turned on. It is easily turned off. Since the collet lock does
not work on the plunge base, I don't think I will be too concerned with this.

The windings in a motor actually vibrate and move about at high speed,
centrifugal force is a power thing at 23,000 RPM. In good quality
motors, the windings are varnish impregnated to fix their position so
that they don't abrade the copper wire's coating - which results in a
short. I have had several Taiwanese motors from Delta do this very
thing - and upon disassembly, found they were NOT varnished. It is
quite a dramatic experience - a bright flash, some smoke, then dead!

As explained in the OP, the breaking slide is really only of concern
in a router table. Leave the switch on, hook to a remote power
switch, engage the auto-collet lock, raise the bit for change and
*Snap*, the slide is broken. You could opt not to use the auto-collet
lock, or turn off the router with the motor switch, but this defeats
some of the benefits of putting it all in a router table.

That made in the USA is a label I used to look for all the time. I kept buying
American made cars when everyone was telling me that they were junk. After my
wife got a foreign car, I realized that what everyone was telling me was right.
My American made car can not compare to her car. I really hate to admit this.
I think The Chinese have made tremendous improvements in quality control over
the last ten years and Made in China may not be so bad anymore. I don't know
what parts of this router were made in the USA. I would not describe it as made
of "Chinese pot metal and cheap labor". It's becoming a global economy whether
we want it to or not and we need to accept this change. I had no problem running
the CD but its content was not anything special.

I understand about the Chinese thing, and probably 60% of the cast
iron in my shop is of Chinese origin. And they HAVE improved over the
years. But the import stuff was clearly identified as such, and I
knew what to expect - no OSHA, slave and prison labor. This unit
claims to be Made in USA and it isn't. Most likely, only the most
minimal of final assembly work was done here. The motor is clearly
constructed all offshore parts, offshore. I doubt that anything but
the CD, instruction book and base labels were made/printed here. And
as for assembly, I doubt that anything but the grips, labels, and
bases are attached in this country. I have worked with imported
electronic equipment for 40 years, and know the signs of imported
workmanship, and the degree of bean-counting that goes on in
corporations these days. PC VERY carefully avoided labeling most of
the internal parts with a country of origin mark- THIS ****es me off.

I appreciate the time Greg took to do his review but I think that anyone
interested in a new router should take a look at this one and draw your own
conclusions. It has its faults and good points like any other product.

As I said in my closing statements, "Form you own conclusions."
Maybe I got a bad one. Maybe it was an early release, and they have
since addressed my concerns. Maybe Tool-Crib has so much purchasing
power that they are now dictating to the manufacturer what to do in
order to cheapen a product. (akin to Wal-Mart, Sears, & Home Despot.)

If it weren't for the sloppy plunge base, I would probably keep it,
just to see how long it lasts. But I can think of no better way to
voice my objections and concerns than to return it.

I would also like to thank everyone on this newsgroup for all of the excellent
answers to questions and the never ending humor that is always present here. I
think woodworkers have been blessed with more common sense and humor than the
rest of the population. I hope everyone has a Merry Christmas

Ditto That!


Greg G.

Hi Greg,


Now that we have determined that you did not get a blender by mistake, I wonder
if you received one of the early models? It will be interesting to get more
input from others who have first hand experience with this product. Perhaps I
just lucked out with mine. I expect a company such as Porter Cable to be more
consistent in their products.

It seems strange that your unit had soft metal adjustment screws and mine
does not. Mine does not have a shiny finish on the screws. Soft metal screws
would certainly wear out in no time. How did you measure the flexing of the
plunge base? Mine does not make any creaking noise and does not shudder. It is
very smooth. I'll check tomorrow to see if both of the bushings are bronze or
not.

Thanks for explaining about the motor windings. It sounds logical to me that
the varnished method is superior. I guess I'll just have to see how the motor
holds up.

I also wish that each part had where it is made clearly stamped on it. So many
products are made from parts all over the world that it is confusing. I see
Assembled in America more than Made in America lately. I wish this country
could be more competitive in the world market but I don't see that happening.
I'll email Porter Cable and try to find out how much of the router is actually
made here.

Why would you want to use the plunge base in a router table when the fixed base
was designed for table use? Just curious.

I suspect that you will probably select the Bosch router after you return your
Porter Cable. Whatever you get, I hope you will write another review.

Neal




Greg G. wrote in message ...
Neal thus spake:

The review of this router was interesting to me because I have had this
router
for about three weeks and my impressions of it are substantially different
than
Gregs. My impressions are so different that when I started reading his
review I
wondered whether Tool Crib may have sent him a Kitchen Aid blender by
mistake.
If I were Greg, I would send that router back. It must have been assembled
on
Monday morning by an employee suffering a hangover from a weekend long
party.

Hi, Neal,

Thanks for the rebuttal. I have no problem with alternate views, and
in fact found it interesting that your model differed so radically
from mine. I have been wooddorking for 25 years or so, off and on, so
I *think* I could tell if they sent a blender by mistake. The blender
has rum in it, right? ;-)

I do have a few comments on your comments, however. They are
interspersed below.

I have only been doing woodworking for a few years am not an expert with
routers or woodworking. I had a low end router that I mainly used in a
table.
I wanted something more accurate and I also wanted above the table height
adjustment. I looked at the Bosch routers and was very impressed but they
did
not have the above table height adjustment. The Milwaukee did have the
adjustment but still I would have to reach under the table to release the
router
before making the adjustment. The Porter Cable seemed to have everything I
wanted. It was only a few dollars more than the Milwaukee and it came with
two
bases. I have actually used the router and have it mounted in my table.
I'll
go through Greg's review and add my comments below.

This is also why I chose this model. Router table use with the fixed
base was one priority, without having to buy a $300 add-on lift. And
you DO have to reach under the table to fully release the router motor
with the PC, just not for minor adjustments. Moving it 2 1/2" at 1/8"
per rev isn't going to happen in my shop, however. A hex socket won't
fit through the baseplate, and I'm not all that thrilled about using
an electric screwdriver to move it anyway. None of this was the
deal-breaker, however.

I am familiar with the 690 series and I don't feel that the 890 series has a
thinner thickness on the housings I went to Home Depot today and looked at a
690
and I did not see a difference in thickness. The collets seem to be the same
for both models.

The thickness of the plunge base is fine, but the fixed base is far
lighter, IMHO. And the locking lever is very lightweight. Based on
my experience with air-cooled aluminum engines and such, the lever
feels like a fracture waiting to happen - too long, too curvey, and
too thin. IMO, they would have done well to have used a steel lever
as on the plunge base. Again, this wasn't the deal-breaker. But the
thin aluminum lever bearing on the steel friction plate of the clamp
is a bad idea, IMHO.

All of the labels on mine were properly attached. None were loose. The Main
Porter Cable label is slightly crooked. The collet wrench is of poor
quality.

Pretty much in agreement here, other than the fact that the labels on
mine are/have peeled off. Not a deal-breaker, but annoying.

The housings are different than the 690 series. They are not as smooth and
Porter Cable may have saved some money here but the machining is excellent.
I
don't care if my tools are "pretty". I want them to be reliable, accurate,
consistent and safe. Others may feel differently. I don't feel the locking
lever is too thin and I can not see how it could ever break unless the router
was dropped. The height adjustment works flawlessly in a table and is not at
all sloppy. The odor from the hand knobs reinforces my employee hangover
theory
because mine do not emit any odor at all. The collet locking part is somewhat
sloppy in its fit but it does work very well on the fixed base. The
adjustment
shafts are not made of soft metal. They are diffinately hardened. They work
well above the table. I can unlock the router and then use my electric
screwdriver with a 3/16" socket to raise the router quickly. The supplied
tool
to make small adjustments works very well.

This is where our models diverge. The housing finish isn't bad, as I
stated. I also am not too concerned with appearance. But my
adjustment worm and rack clearance is extremely sloppy. This is a
model that you adjust UP to final position from below the desired
setting when in a router table. Gravity plays an important role in
where it ends up. My adjustment screws *are* soft metal. Can't give
you a durometer reading, 'cause the tools are at work. ;-) The
add-on shaft used to adjust through the router table IS hardened. But
the shaft on the router itself is soft, shiny steel. I can leave a
groove in it with the tip of a forcep. And again, a standard hex
socket won't fit through the baseplate, and I'm not all that thrilled
about using an electric screwdriver to move it anyway - just results
in accelerated wear, plus another tool to keep up with while working.

The collet lock on my plunge base does not work. The router does not go down
far enough to activate the lock. I doubt I would use the lock on this base
anyway but it is a flaw. I have no problem seeing the scale through the
plastic
and my 58 year old eyes are not what they used to be. However, it could be
better. I usually use setup bars on a plunge base anyway and never look at
the
scale on the router. The next point is probably the most serious problem
Greg
found in his review. He was able to change the bit height by pressing on the
router grips. I have tried to duplicate this but I can not. I tried pushing
everyway I could on the plunge base and the depth of the cut stayed the same.
There is no flex in mine and it is much smoother than the 690 series plunge
base. I can not see how his got through any type of quality control with a
defect like this. The router also has power to spare and runs very smooth and
quiet.

My scale is unreadable. You cannot, and I stress the word cannot, see
through the plastic AT ALL. It is like frosted glass. I thought it
could have been from chemical exposure, but it so evenly frosted that
I discounted that possibility. Again, not a deal-breaker, as I also
do not use the scale for much. I have a micrometer for such things.

The deal-breaker for me, as you pointed out, is the slop in the plunge
base. The bushings in the right plunge column are plastic, and there
is an unacceptable (IMHO) amount of movement of the bit. I measured
it with a dial indicator, and with moderate pressure from ONE finger
on ONE plunge router grip, I get a bit height variation of .030" to
.067" depending on the depth of the plunge. Additionally, the bit
moves sideways from .025" - .044", again depending on the setting of
the plunge. The side with the bronze bushings stays put, while the
side with the plastic bushings flexes. It also makes a creaking
sound, and shudders when doing so. It is not smooth at all.

[Q] Are both of your post bushings bronze, or are they mixed?

I don't know much about motors and nothing about varish or pressure
impregnated
windings. If someone can explain the need for this to me, I would appreciate
it. I have never used a router at full plunge depth and I can see no
situation
where I would need to. The slide could possibly break if this occured and
the
auto lock was turned on. It is easily turned off. Since the collet lock
does
not work on the plunge base, I don't think I will be too concerned with this.

The windings in a motor actually vibrate and move about at high speed,
centrifugal force is a power thing at 23,000 RPM. In good quality
motors, the windings are varnish impregnated to fix their position so
that they don't abrade the copper wire's coating - which results in a
short. I have had several Taiwanese motors from Delta do this very
thing - and upon disassembly, found they were NOT varnished. It is
quite a dramatic experience - a bright flash, some smoke, then dead!

As explained in the OP, the breaking slide is really only of concern
in a router table. Leave the switch on, hook to a remote power
switch, engage the auto-collet lock, raise the bit for change and
*Snap*, the slide is broken. You could opt not to use the auto-collet
lock, or turn off the router with the motor switch, but this defeats
some of the benefits of putting it all in a router table.

That made in the USA is a label I used to look for all the time. I kept
buying
American made cars when everyone was telling me that they were junk. After
my
wife got a foreign car, I realized that what everyone was telling me was
right.
My American made car can not compare to her car. I really hate to admit
this.
I think The Chinese have made tremendous improvements in quality control over
the last ten years and Made in China may not be so bad anymore. I don't know
what parts of this router were made in the USA. I would not describe it as
made
of "Chinese pot metal and cheap labor". It's becoming a global economy
whether
we want it to or not and we need to accept this change. I had no problem
running
the CD but its content was not anything special.

I understand about the Chinese thing, and probably 60% of the cast
iron in my shop is of Chinese origin. And they HAVE improved over the
years. But the import stuff was clearly identified as such, and I
knew what to expect - no OSHA, slave and prison labor. This unit
claims to be Made in USA and it isn't. Most likely, only the most
minimal of final assembly work was done here. The motor is clearly
constructed all offshore parts, offshore. I doubt that anything but
the CD, instruction book and base labels were made/printed here. And
as for assembly, I doubt that anything but the grips, labels, and
bases are attached in this country. I have worked with imported
electronic equipment for 40 years, and know the signs of imported
workmanship, and the degree of bean-counting that goes on in
corporations these days. PC VERY carefully avoided labeling most of
the internal parts with a country of origin mark- THIS ****es me off.

I appreciate the time Greg took to do his review but I think that anyone
interested in a new router should take a look at this one and draw your own
conclusions. It has its faults and good points like any other product.

As I said in my closing statements, "Form you own conclusions."
Maybe I got a bad one. Maybe it was an early release, and they have
since addressed my concerns. Maybe Tool-Crib has so much purchasing
power that they are now dictating to the manufacturer what to do in
order to cheapen a product. (akin to Wal-Mart, Sears, & Home Despot.)

If it weren't for the sloppy plunge base, I would probably keep it,
just to see how long it lasts. But I can think of no better way to
voice my objections and concerns than to return it.

I would also like to thank everyone on this newsgroup for all of the
excellent
answers to questions and the never ending humor that is always present here.
I
think woodworkers have been blessed with more common sense and humor than the
rest of the population. I hope everyone has a Merry Christmas

Ditto That!


Greg G.

Neal thus spake:

Now that we have determined that you did not get a blender by mistake, I wonder
if you received one of the early models? It will be interesting to get more
input from others who have first hand experience with this product. Perhaps I
just lucked out with mine. I expect a company such as Porter Cable to be more
consistent in their products.

As did I. Maybe I'll give them a call and see if they will replace
the crappy parts with better. I own other MANY Pentair products, and
really don't hate them, honest! I often tweak and modify lesser tools
to perform better, in the interest of saving a few bucks or supporting
a particular vendor.

It seems strange that your unit had soft metal adjustment screws and mine
does not. Mine does not have a shiny finish on the screws. Soft metal screws
would certainly wear out in no time. How did you measure the flexing of the
plunge base? Mine does not make any creaking noise and does not shudder. It is
very smooth. I'll check tomorrow to see if both of the bushings are bronze or
not.

I would appreciate knowing about the bushings. And you are certain
that both of your 'screws' are black hardened steel? Hmmm...

Thanks for explaining about the motor windings. It sounds logical to me that
the varnished method is superior. I guess I'll just have to see how the motor
holds up.

I would even consider dipping it myself, if the other factors were
dealt with. I have started to do this with all new equipment that is
NOT varnished from the factory - I have had too many failures to suit
me. The only hard part is finding the varnish in small quantities and
waiting for it to bake and dry out.

I also wish that each part had where it is made clearly stamped on it. So many
products are made from parts all over the world that it is confusing. I see
Assembled in America more than Made in America lately. I wish this country
could be more competitive in the world market but I don't see that happening.
I'll email Porter Cable and try to find out how much of the router is actually
made here.

I wish we were more competitive as well. When I overhauled my old '94
T-Bird, every part had a mark on it denoting it's country of origin.
Mexico, England, Spain, Japan, etc. Stuff from all over the world!
But I wouldn't expect TOO much of a response to your query to PC.

Why would you want to use the plunge base in a router table when the fixed base
was designed for table use? Just curious.

I don't. What gave you that idea? I DO want to use it as both a
handheld with the plunge base and in a router table with the fixed
base, however.

I suspect that you will probably select the Bosch router after you return your
Porter Cable. Whatever you get, I hope you will write another review.

The Bosch is a nice unit, but lacks the 'features' for use in a router
table. So that means another $300 for a Mast-R-Lift - which probably
is a better overall solution anyway - with a larger router to boot.

I generally review all the new tools I get - when I have the time...


Greg G.

Greg G. wrote in :

The Bosch is a nice unit, but lacks the 'features' for use in a router
table. So that means another $300 for a Mast-R-Lift - which probably

Dum question, but why not the Dewalt 618B3 (the triple base
kit)?
Or just get a Bosch 1617 for handheld use and Hitachi M12 for the
the router table?

Thanks for the detailed review of the PC895...most reviews
on this I've seen were pretty positive...


ken

Ken Yee thus spake:

Dum question, but why not the Dewalt 618B3 (the triple base
kit)?
Or just get a Bosch 1617 for handheld use and Hitachi M12 for the
the router table?

Dumb answer... Lots-o-money? g

Thanks for the detailed review of the PC895...most reviews
on this I've seen were pretty positive...

I'm still trying to get over why they bothered to put an auto-collet
lock on this thing when it doesn't even work! On the fixed base, the
rack hits the base and binds before it engages. On the plunge base,
it bottoms out before it ever gets to the tang. Go figure? Does no
one even try these things out? I was not impressed, and it is not up
to PC's standards.

In the included video, the Router Workshop guys used wrenches to
remove the bits, claiming that it was easier for them.
I bet it IS easier - 'cause it DOESN'T WORK!


Greg G.

Greg G. wrote in message ...
Ken Yee thus spake:

Dum question, but why not the Dewalt 618B3 (the triple base
kit)?
Or just get a Bosch 1617 for handheld use and Hitachi M12 for the
the router table?

Dumb answer... Lots-o-money? g

Thanks for the detailed review of the PC895...most reviews
on this I've seen were pretty positive...

I'm still trying to get over why they bothered to put an auto-collet
lock on this thing when it doesn't even work! On the fixed base, the
rack hits the base and binds before it engages. On the plunge base,
it bottoms out before it ever gets to the tang. Go figure? Does no
one even try these things out? I was not impressed, and it is not up
to PC's standards.

In the included video, the Router Workshop guys used wrenches to
remove the bits, claiming that it was easier for them.
I bet it IS easier - 'cause it DOESN'T WORK!


Greg G.



Greg,

I looked at my router again today and I think you are correct on more of your
evaluation than I thought. Yes, the bushing on the non locking plunge rod is
plastic. I am concerned about this for long term reliability. I do not have a
clue as to why they used plastic instead of a quality bushing. I removed the
springs and you are correct about the excessive movement which seems to be
caused by the plastic bushing. Somehow it does accurately plunge but the design
is not typical Porter Cable and I can see future problems.

My auto collet lock works fine on the fixed base but I don't understand why it
was designed to not work if the switch is in the on position. Why have
everything adjustable from the top of the table and then have to reach under the
table to turn the router off to change a bit? The fixed base was designed with
table use in mind so this makes no sense. You are right about it bottoming out
before getting to the tang on the plunge base.

I have just tried to call Porter Cable and they are closed. They finally gave
me the home office support number after routing me through several other tech
people who apparently never even seen the new router. One even asked where I
got it. This makes me a bit nervous and I am now thinking about returning mine
too. One time I bought a new car when it was first introduced and really
regretted it soon after. This sounds very similar.


Here's Porter Cables tech number if you would like to call too. 800-321-9443

Neal

Greg G. wrote in message
...
Ken Yee thus spake:

Dum question, but why not the Dewalt 618B3 (the triple base
kit)?
Or just get a Bosch 1617 for handheld use and Hitachi M12 for the
the router table?

Dumb answer... Lots-o-money? g

The Hitachi M12V is $135 right now at Amazon/Toolcrib (ie. $160 - $25
coupon).

Neal and Greg,

I appreciate your reviews, but I have actually been very happy with my
894 so far... once I figured out a few things... I'll address those
below.

I'm still trying to get over why they bothered to put an auto-collet
lock on this thing when it doesn't even work! On the fixed base, the
rack hits the base and binds before it engages. On the plunge base,
it bottoms out before it ever gets to the tang. Go figure? Does no
one even try these things out? I was not impressed, and it is not up
to PC's standards.

The auto-collet on mine works, BUT... I had to remove the plastic
"dust director" (or whatever you call it) plate. On the 894 fixed
base, there is a plastic insert that directs dust to the handle for
the through the handle dust removal. This insert prevents the fixed
base from extending to the lowest router position. I was very annoyed
when I first got the router becuase the auto-collet didn't work and
the above the table features were why I bought this thing. Well,
after examining the mechansim, I saw the problem and removed the
plastic insert. Once gone, the auto-collet on the fixed base works
perfectly. The only problem is that if you want to use the through
the handle feature, you will have to reinsert the plastic piece. I
don't really plan to take the fixed base out of my table very often so
this isn't a major concern.

I can't comment on the plunge right now because I have only used the
plunge twice and don't remember whether it worked correctly or not. I
am mostly using this router in the table.

My auto collet lock works fine on the fixed base but I don't understand why it
was designed to not work if the switch is in the on position. Why have
everything adjustable from the top of the table and then have to reach under the
table to turn the router off to change a bit? The fixed base was designed with
table use in mind so this makes no sense. You are right about it bottoming

I don't have this problem. I have mine plugged in to a seperate power
switch in the table and the router switch is always in the "on"
position. I don't understand the problem you have because mine works
perfectly.

This is also why I chose this model. Router table use with the fixed
base was one priority, without having to buy a $300 add-on lift. And
you DO have to reach under the table to fully release the router motor
with the PC, just not for minor adjustments. Moving it 2 1/2" at 1/8"
per rev isn't going to happen in my shop, however. A hex socket won't
fit through the baseplate, and I'm not all that thrilled about using
an electric screwdriver to move it anyway. None of this was the
deal-breaker, however.

I don't understand this comment either. Mine has two holes in the
plate for making through the table adjustments. First, you insert the
tool in the first hole and unlock the locking mechanism (this releases
the motor catch). Second, you insert the tool in the second hole and
adjust the height. Once the height is adjusted, you relock the
mechanism. Hence, no reaching under the table is required.

Since removing the plastic dust director insert, I have had no
problems changing bits or changing height without reaching under the
table.

I'm interested to hear if any of this helps with your problems, but it
sounds like Greg may have gotten a lemon. I am very happy with my
PC894 and have no thoughts about returning it.

Greg G. wrote in :

Dumb answer... Lots-o-money? g

Only if you really thought you could have
gotten away w/ not using the Router Raiser :-)

I was just curious why you ruled out the
DW618PK which is around the same price as the
PC695PK. The Dewalt seems better than the venerable
Bosch 617 and it sounds like the PC is worse w/ all
the plastic/aluminum parts in the wear areas...


ken

YJJim said:

The auto-collet on mine works, BUT... I had to remove the plastic
"dust director" (or whatever you call it) plate. On the 894 fixed
base, there is a plastic insert that directs dust to the handle for
the through the handle dust removal. This insert prevents the fixed
base from extending to the lowest router position. I was very annoyed
when I first got the router becuase the auto-collet didn't work and
the above the table features were why I bought this thing. Well,
after examining the mechansim, I saw the problem and removed the
plastic insert. Once gone, the auto-collet on the fixed base works
perfectly. The only problem is that if you want to use the through
the handle feature, you will have to reinsert the plastic piece. I
don't really plan to take the fixed base out of my table very often so
this isn't a major concern.

The PC895PK kit doesn't have the plastic dust shield on the fixed
base, but it IS on the plunge base. But the router body rack (toothed
rack running down the side of the router body) hits the fixed base and
causes the router to twist in the base before the collet lock pin ever
engages. Doesn't work at all.

I can't comment on the plunge right now because I have only used the
plunge twice and don't remember whether it worked correctly or not. I
am mostly using this router in the table.

Plunge hits the dust shield before engaging, as did your fixed base.
But even with the plastic dust collection plate removed - which is
stupid because that is when you WANT dust collection, when doing
hand-held plunge routing - the plunge base collet lock doesn't work.

I don't have this problem. I have mine plugged in to a seperate power
switch in the table and the router switch is always in the "on"
position. I don't understand the problem you have because mine works
perfectly.

The plastic switch lock-out slide keeps the pin from engaging - it was
designed to do that very thing. Perhaps you have already broken yours
without knowing/noticing. That was one of my complaints.

[Q] If you leave your router on, change bits from the top of the
table, and use the auto-collet lock, look at yours and see if it has
broken the plastic slide. I'd bet you a donut it has.

I don't understand this comment either. Mine has two holes in the
plate for making through the table adjustments. First, you insert the
tool in the first hole and unlock the locking mechanism (this releases
the motor catch). Second, you insert the tool in the second hole and
adjust the height. Once the height is adjusted, you relock the
mechanism. Hence, no reaching under the table is required.

I understand how it works. The point was, to move the router up and
down for bit changes, or make major adjustments in height, you would
have to turn that screw 16 full turns - a bit of a pain. The lock
that releases the body for *major* adjustments or body removal in
still under the table. No big deal, but a Mast-R-Lift would be a much
more eloquent solution.

I'm interested to hear if any of this helps with your problems, but it
sounds like Greg may have gotten a lemon. I am very happy with my
PC894 and have no thoughts about returning it.

The motor itself seems like a serviceable piece, even if it IS made in
China with offshore bearings and such. The soft-start/speed
controller is made in Holland, FYI. I am just shocked at how many of
the "special features" on this unit were poorly designed and don't
work properly. This unit has the feel of something that was rushed
into market with little testing. I expected more of PC.


Greg G.

Ken Yee said:

Greg G. wrote in :

Dumb answer... Lots-o-money? g

Only if you really thought you could have
gotten away w/ not using the Router Raiser :-)

Apparently attempting to avoid the Rout-R-Lift was a mistake.

I was just curious why you ruled out the
DW618PK which is around the same price as the
PC695PK. The Dewalt seems better than the venerable
Bosch 617 and it sounds like the PC is worse w/ all
the plastic/aluminum parts in the wear areas...

Prices on the DeWalt were $299 instead of the $229, I like PC's 690
routers - they are an industry standard, and the DeWalt did not have
the router table top adjustment ability. I also have some PC
accessories I wanted to retain instead of buying new ones.

No real quality issues that I am aware of. I own several DeWalt
tools, and although they are of Chinese origin as well, I have not had
any problems with them.


Greg G.

YJJim,

I'm glad you are pleased with your router. I have spent more time with mine and
I have decided to not return it. I understand the points you made but I don't
see how you could get the auto collet lock to work with the routers switch in
the on position. There is a safety feature on the router that prevents the lock
from working with the switch in the on position. Could yours have broken
already?

I think the main point Greg was making was the sloppiness of the plunge base. I
again tried it with the plunge base and I did get good consistent results but I
am concerned about what those results will be after a few years of use. I
finally talked to someone at Porter Cable and was told to take it to a service
center for them to look at it. I live 45 miles from the service center in
Atlanta so I don't know when I will follow through with that.

One of Greg's concerns was that the majority of the router may have been made
in China. I emailed Porter Cable and their response was that there is only one
part of the router made in Taiwan and that is part number 75301 which is the
adjustment shaft that you put through the base to adjust the height. Everything
else is made in the USA. I hate to think that something made in the USA is of
lower quality than what is made in China. If it was made in China, I probably
would have returned it. The motor unit appears to be very well made and runs
very smooth and quiet and has a lot of power. I guess time will tell if this was
a good router choice.

Neal


"YJJim" wrote in message
m...
Neal and Greg,

I appreciate your reviews, but I have actually been very happy with my
894 so far... once I figured out a few things... I'll address those
below.

I'm still trying to get over why they bothered to put an auto-collet
lock on this thing when it doesn't even work! On the fixed base, the
rack hits the base and binds before it engages. On the plunge base,
it bottoms out before it ever gets to the tang. Go figure? Does no
one even try these things out? I was not impressed, and it is not up
to PC's standards.

The auto-collet on mine works, BUT... I had to remove the plastic
"dust director" (or whatever you call it) plate. On the 894 fixed
base, there is a plastic insert that directs dust to the handle for
the through the handle dust removal. This insert prevents the fixed
base from extending to the lowest router position. I was very annoyed
when I first got the router becuase the auto-collet didn't work and
the above the table features were why I bought this thing. Well,
after examining the mechansim, I saw the problem and removed the
plastic insert. Once gone, the auto-collet on the fixed base works
perfectly. The only problem is that if you want to use the through
the handle feature, you will have to reinsert the plastic piece. I
don't really plan to take the fixed base out of my table very often so
this isn't a major concern.

I can't comment on the plunge right now because I have only used the
plunge twice and don't remember whether it worked correctly or not. I
am mostly using this router in the table.

My auto collet lock works fine on the fixed base but I don't understand why
it
was designed to not work if the switch is in the on position. Why have
everything adjustable from the top of the table and then have to reach under
the
table to turn the router off to change a bit? The fixed base was designed
with
table use in mind so this makes no sense. You are right about it bottoming

I don't have this problem. I have mine plugged in to a seperate power
switch in the table and the router switch is always in the "on"
position. I don't understand the problem you have because mine works
perfectly.

This is also why I chose this model. Router table use with the fixed
base was one priority, without having to buy a $300 add-on lift. And
you DO have to reach under the table to fully release the router motor
with the PC, just not for minor adjustments. Moving it 2 1/2" at 1/8"
per rev isn't going to happen in my shop, however. A hex socket won't
fit through the baseplate, and I'm not all that thrilled about using
an electric screwdriver to move it anyway. None of this was the
deal-breaker, however.

I don't understand this comment either. Mine has two holes in the
plate for making through the table adjustments. First, you insert the
tool in the first hole and unlock the locking mechanism (this releases
the motor catch). Second, you insert the tool in the second hole and
adjust the height. Once the height is adjusted, you relock the
mechanism. Hence, no reaching under the table is required.

Since removing the plastic dust director insert, I have had no
problems changing bits or changing height without reaching under the
table.

I'm interested to hear if any of this helps with your problems, but it
sounds like Greg may have gotten a lemon. I am very happy with my
PC894 and have no thoughts about returning it.

Neal said:

There is a safety feature on the router that prevents the lock
from working with the switch in the on position. Could yours have broken
already?

I'd bet a donut that his plastic slide is broken on the end. Probably
happened without him even noticing.

I think the main point Greg was making was the sloppiness of the plunge base.

One of my more critical complaints.
The lack of real bushings bothers me...

One of Greg's concerns was that the majority of the router may have been made
in China. I emailed Porter Cable and their response was that there is only one
part of the router made in Taiwan and that is part number 75301 which is the
adjustment shaft that you put through the base to adjust the height.

Now THAT is a flat-out lie. I took the thing apart, and the bearings
are clearly stamped MADE IN CHINA, the soft-start/speed controller is
made in Holland.

What he SHOULD have said is that sub-assemblies are assembled in USA.
The component parts are imported.

The motor unit appears to be very well made and runs
very smooth and quiet and has a lot of power. I guess time will tell if this was
a good router choice.

I haven't made up my mind on the return factor. Returning items to
Amazon can be a real PITA.

The motor DOES run smoothly at speed, although the start-up is
irregular - a side effect of the digital stepper in the controller.
No big deal.

But I REALLY wish they had put better bushings in the plunge base.
The numerous little quirks eventually add up, giving a generally weak
feel to the product. It needs a little tweaking to become a superior
Porter Cable caliber tool, imported parts not withstanding.


Greg G.

Glad I chose the Bosch 1617 EVSPK. When I bought my slide miter saw I
also chose Bosch over PC.

D.Martin



Greg G. wrote in message . ..
Well, my errant finger pressed the order button on a new Porter Cable
895PK router kit last week, sight unseen. The UPS man delivered it
today and I'm a little sorry now that I didn't wait to see one of
these in person. Perhaps it's me, but this thing comes off as a
quickly designed and assembled collection of cheaply cast Chinese
aluminum, replete with peeling labels and plastic parts. The box
proudly proclaims, "Made in the USA of US and Imported parts." I get
the definite impression that most all the parts are coming from an
offshore Chinese factory. I even considered the possibility that
perhaps Tool-Crib was selling clone knock-offs of the real thing...

I'm used to the substance and feel of the venerable 690 series
routers, with well machined collets, heavy duty steel locking levers
and the substantial thickness of the housings.

To save anyone else from the shock of opening that box for the first
time, I am posting a few 'first impressions'. I'll follow up with a
more detailed review of the unit's actual performance at a later date.
(Read - when it's not 32F in the shop!)

Overall impressions
---------------------------------------------
Packaging/Unit in General:
---------------------------------------------
Upon opening the huge blow molded case, I was shocked to find a
variety of labels laying throughout the case. Most of the labels
refuse to stick to the router, and either fell off in shipping, or are
peeling off as I write this. Even the 1/32"/rev marker label on the
plunge router base stop adjustment screw peeled off. Some of the
label fonts (i.e. The Motor ID label) look like they were printed with
a dot matrix printer. The collets are of poor quality, at least in
comparison to the older PC models, and the machine work is obviously
offshore. The collet wrench is soft stamped steel, again, offshore.
The black blow molded case(s) is/are a two piece design, each with
storage for five 1/2" and five 1/4" bits and the collets, as well as
template guides, collet wrench and height adjustment rod. They can be
separated into two identical units, each with storage for the
appropriate base. Each case may be used as a router pedestal, with
knockouts on the bottom for standing the router upright with a bit
installed. The top and bottom are not hinged but are of a clamshell
design, being held together with metal flip-clasps.

Fixed Base:
---------------------
Although the various angles on the base are very rounded, the finish
of the sand castings is very consistent, and the forms used were
smoothed well before production, the housings on this base are
extremely thin wall, and the router body locking lever is very thin
aluminum - I thought it would crack the first time I engaged it. The
actuating clamp tangs are so thin that after just a couple of
operations, the aluminum is coming off in slivers. Additionally, the
lever just flops around in the base. The height adjustment worm
appears to be metal, as is the rack on the router body. - but the worm
has just one thread of engagement, and is rather sloppy at that. The
base plate is clear plastic, but I'm unsure whether it is styrene or
polycarbonate. Unfortunately, it is filled with open ribs and valleys
that catch every piece of debris that falls - making the clear base
impossible to see through when used upright. You cannot use a
template guide with this base plate. The hand hold knobs are
reasonably well formed, although they strongly emit the most peculiar
odor... The router collet locking pin is hardened steel and may be
actuated automatically by a movable tang, which engages at full router
depth. This behavior may be overridden by moving the tang. The tang
is metal, but sloppy in fit, and hard to move reliably. You may also
press the collet lock pin with a finger. The macro-adjustment release
lever is plastic and spring loaded, but seems to operate smoothly. My
biggest complaint about this base is that it is designed, as supplied,
solely for use in a router table. And therein lies the rub. The
router body release lever and the micro adjustment are tiny 3/16" hex
headed shafts of soft metal which show signs of wear after a couple of
operations. The included adjustment shaft is hardened steel, with a
large plastic knob and plastic depth adjustment scale. The biggest
problem with this arrangement is that, although you can lock and
unlock the router body and make fine adjustments from above the router
table, major changes still require access to the macro-release tang on
the base body - requiring you to reach inside the router table dust
collection box to access the lever from underneath. You could
conceivably twist on the micro-adjustment, but at 1/8" per revolution,
it could take a while, additionally accelerating the wear of the
shafts mentioned previously. See also: comments concerning the power
switch in the router motor evaluation.

Plunge Base:
---------------------
Fortunately, there is more to like here - barely. The castings are,
again, very smooth, but considerably more substantial in mass. The
hand grips are identical to the fixed base grips - replete with the
same strange odor... The same collet lock pin actuator is present,
just as sloppy, but slightly easier to actuate. The labels on this
body are applied haphazardly as well as on the others - the PC label
on front is canted by about 10 degrees. That is, until it falls off
like the others have.

The plunge stop has 3 adjustable stops - two with allen head screws
and hex stop nuts, and one thumbscrew adjustment with 32 TPI. The
adjustment rate label for this stop peeled off and will not stay on.
That gives a total of four (4) stops, including the default - which is
the router base itself. The stop rod is an aluminum sleeve with a
soft steel turret which rotates inside. It is movable with a
thumb/finger while holding the grips. There is a movable plastic
hairline(?!) marker that locks with a thumbscrew. Amazingly, however,
you cannot see the scale label (also peeling) through the translucent
plastic of the hairline! What on earth were they thinking with THIS
idea? Additionally, the distance between the hairline (more of a
blunt felt tip line than a hairline) and the scale is about 1/4" -
leading to parallax errors. That is, IF your could even SEE the
scale!

The router body latch is more like the familiar metal design on the
690 series - all steel with a nut adjustment for clamp pressure. The
router sub-base is also the more familiar PC design, with a ledge for
using PC template guides. There is a clear plastic dust shield over
this, with a non-removable 1" OD (~3/4" ID) vacuum port for dust
collection present on the body itself. The spring loaded plunge base
has a spring loaded lever for height adjustments, and can be locked
into the released position for free plunge operations. I was amazed
to find that the router bit height can be changed as much as 1/8" by
pressing gently on the router grips while the plunge is locked. This
should make precision depth routing quite an interesting and
improbable experience. The plunge guide rods appear to be hardened
steel and the base does have bronze bushings riding on them - for all
the good it does. It turns out that only ONE of the guides is bushed
with sintered bronze, the other is plastic, which accounts for the
flex and bit movement.

Router Motor
-------------------------
The router motor itself is fairly quite, and has variable speed
(~10,000 - 23,000 RPM) and soft-start. The soft-start feature is
slightly disconcerting, however, as it comes up to speed somewhat
irregularly - sort of pulsing rather than smoothly. I was totally
appalled to find that the motor fields and rotor are NOT varnish
dipped or pressure impregnated - a must for a high speed motor - and
that the 6004RS bearings are made in China!

The imported, non-detachable power cord is sufficiently long at 10
feet, and has a rubberized strain relief 3" long at the motor housing.

The top power switch is relatively easy to operate, and shuts the
router off when set upside down on a flat surface while running (who
the hell does THAT?), but the lower switch is simply a plastic
mechanical slide that links to the upper switch and is quite difficult
to operate from the hole in the fixed router base. It is completely
unusable in the plunge base (great planning, guys!). This same
plastic slide is also what 'locks' the collet pin from engaging while
the power is applied. I can guarantee that running the router up to
max height while the switch is ON WILL break this slide. This means
that using the auto collet lock in a router table combined with a
remote power switch is problematic.

Overall
----------------
I'm not sure whether I will actually use thing or return it - but I DO
know that it makes my WELL used army green $65.00 B&D RP200 look
pretty good in comparison - dual bronze bushings on the plunge rods,
no discernable play in the plunge mech, easy to operate power switch
on the handle, good balance, and built in dust collection. It's main
problems are low power and a 1/4" collet.

It has been my experience that Chinese ball bearings don't hold up,
and that varnishing the windings in a high speed motor is mandatory.

I bought this because it was supposedly Made In USA / PC quality - but
it's not like anything I am familiar with. It is an assemblage of
Chinese pot metal and cheap labor, and I fear the only thing Made In
USA was the marketing department and the placement of the handles and
knobs on the router bases.

The included CD is a mix of heavy marketing propaganda and a couple of
extremely basic plans from Canadian based Oak Park Enterprises, LTD.
www.oak-park.com

101 - Heart Frame
102 - Book Ends (Incorrectly Identified as a Dovetail Book Stand)
103 - Magic Boxes

Also included is a series of hokey video clips that demonstrate
building a very simplistic benchtop router table from the 'stars' of
Public Television's 'The Router Workshop' - sponsored by?
You guessed it, Porter Cable.

Form your own conclusions...

Greg G.

I was just curious why you ruled out the
DW618PK which is around the same price as the
PC695PK. The Dewalt seems better than the venerable
Bosch 617 and it sounds like the PC is worse w/ all
the plastic/aluminum parts in the wear areas...

Prices on the DeWalt were $299 instead of the $229, I like PC's 690
routers - they are an industry standard, and the DeWalt did not have
the router table top adjustment ability. I also have some PC
accessories I wanted to retain instead of buying new ones.

No real quality issues that I am aware of. I own several DeWalt
tools, and although they are of Chinese origin as well, I have not had
any problems with them.


I have the Dewalt DW618pk kit, and it IS made in USA. The two base kit
usually goes for $239 (I paid $199 at a woodworking show), and the
three base kit (includes D-handle) I've seen for about $279. My
impression is that it's a very well designed router kit...easy motor
removal, clear lexan base plates, quick disconnect power cord,
stationary switch position, excellent dust collection, etc. It's also
the smoothest, quietest router I've ever used. Fit and finish is very
nice, no rough edges or corrosion problems, and it looks to be less
top-heavy than the others. I admit I haven't used the Bosch or the new
PC kits, but there's no question in my mind that the Dewalt is in the
same league and should not be overlooked.

Tom

I too am dissatisfied with the 890 (895 package) and I haven't even put it
in a table yet. Immediately discovered that the arbor lock was useless on
the plunge base and the "thumb" switch was useless as well. Why would they
position the thumb switch so it could not be used on a plunge base, for
heaven's sake???? That is the base you use the most for manual routing! I
called PC and complained that the router collet nut is a hair too large to
fit thru the hole in the baseplate (even with the dust collection insert
thing removed) therefore the arbor lock was useless. Their solution was to
send me another baseplate identical to the one on the fixed base which has a
larger bit hole! Then today, I had the need to use one of my 1/4" bits so I
pulled out the included 1/4" collet. The darn thing was so tight I couldn't
get the bit in without tapping it with a mallet (that's good for your bits!)
and then I had to remove the collet and put it in a vise and tap the bit out
from the bottom to get it out! It was the same with all 1/4" bits (Freud and
CMT) so I know it is the collet and not a rogue bit shank. Sheesh! Didn't
anyone at PC actually use this thing before they put it into production?
Hard to tell what I will find when I put it in a table. This is the first PC
product I have bought and it may be the last.

"Neal" wrote in message
...
The review of this router was interesting to me because I have had this
router
for about three weeks and my impressions of it are substantially different
than
Gregs. My impressions are so different that when I started reading his
review I
wondered whether Tool Crib may have sent him a Kitchen Aid blender by
mistake.
If I were Greg, I would send that router back. It must have been
assembled on
Monday morning by an employee suffering a hangover from a weekend long
party.

I have only been doing woodworking for a few years am not an expert with
routers or woodworking. I had a low end router that I mainly used in a
table.
I wanted something more accurate and I also wanted above the table height
adjustment. I looked at the Bosch routers and was very impressed but they
did
not have the above table height adjustment. The Milwaukee did have the
adjustment but still I would have to reach under the table to release the
router
before making the adjustment. The Porter Cable seemed to have everything
I
wanted. It was only a few dollars more than the Milwaukee and it came with
two
bases. I have actually used the router and have it mounted in my table.
I'll
go through Greg's review and add my comments below.


Greg G. wrote:
:: Well, my errant finger pressed the order button on a new Porter Cable
:: 895PK router kit last week, sight unseen. The UPS man delivered it
:: today and I'm a little sorry now that I didn't wait to see one of
:: these in person. Perhaps it's me, but this thing comes off as a
:: quickly designed and assembled collection of cheaply cast Chinese
:: aluminum, replete with peeling labels and plastic parts. The box
:: proudly proclaims, "Made in the USA of US and Imported parts." I get
:: the definite impression that most all the parts are coming from an
:: offshore Chinese factory. I even considered the possibility that
:: perhaps Tool-Crib was selling clone knock-offs of the real thing...

:: I'm used to the substance and feel of the venerable 690 series
:: routers, with well machined collets, heavy duty steel locking levers
:: and the substantial thickness of the housings.


I am familiar with the 690 series and I don't feel that the 890 series has
a
thinner thickness on the housings I went to Home Depot today and looked at
a 690
and I did not see a difference in thickness. The collets seem to be the
same
for both models.


:: To save anyone else from the shock of opening that box for the first
:: time, I am posting a few 'first impressions'. I'll follow up with a
:: more detailed review of the unit's actual performance at a later
:: date. (Read - when it's not 32F in the shop!)
::
:: Overall impressions
:: ---------------------------------------------
:: Packaging/Unit in General:
:: ---------------------------------------------
:: Upon opening the huge blow molded case, I was shocked to find a
:: variety of labels laying throughout the case. Most of the labels
:: refuse to stick to the router, and either fell off in shipping, or
:: are peeling off as I write this. Even the 1/32"/rev marker label on
:: the plunge router base stop adjustment screw peeled off. Some of the
:: label fonts (i.e. The Motor ID label) look like they were printed
:: with a dot matrix printer. The collets are of poor quality, at
:: least in comparison to the older PC models, and the machine work is
:: obviously offshore. The collet wrench is soft stamped steel, again,
:: offshore. The black blow molded case(s) is/are a two piece design,
:: each with storage for five 1/2" and five 1/4" bits and the collets,
:: as well as template guides, collet wrench and height adjustment rod.
:: They can be separated into two identical units, each with storage
:: for the appropriate base. Each case may be used as a router
:: pedestal, with knockouts on the bottom for standing the router
:: upright with a bit installed. The top and bottom are not hinged but
:: are of a clamshell design, being held together with metal flip-
:: clasps.
::

All of the labels on mine were properly attached. None were loose. The
Main
Porter Cable label is slightly crooked. The collet wrench is of poor
quality.


:: Fixed Base:
:: ---------------------
:: Although the various angles on the base are very rounded, the finish
:: of the sand castings is very consistent, and the forms used were
:: smoothed well before production, the housings on this base are
:: extremely thin wall, and the router body locking lever is very thin
:: aluminum - I thought it would crack the first time I engaged it. The
:: actuating clamp tangs are so thin that after just a couple of
:: operations, the aluminum is coming off in slivers. Additionally, the
:: lever just flops around in the base. The height adjustment worm
:: appears to be metal, as is the rack on the router body. - but the
:: worm has just one thread of engagement, and is rather sloppy at
:: that. The base plate is clear plastic, but I'm unsure whether it is
:: styrene or polycarbonate. Unfortunately, it is filled with open
:: ribs and valleys that catch every piece of debris that falls -
:: making the clear base impossible to see through when used upright.
:: You cannot use a template guide with this base plate. The hand hold
:: knobs are reasonably well formed, although they strongly emit the
:: most peculiar odor... The router collet locking pin is hardened
:: steel and may be actuated automatically by a movable tang, which
:: engages at full router depth. This behavior may be overridden by
:: moving the tang. The tang is metal, but sloppy in fit, and hard to
:: move reliably. You may also press the collet lock pin with a
:: finger. The macro-adjustment release lever is plastic and spring
:: loaded, but seems to operate smoothly. My biggest complaint about
:: this base is that it is designed, as supplied, solely for use in a
:: router table. And therein lies the rub. The router body release
:: lever and the micro adjustment are tiny 3/16" hex headed shafts of
:: soft metal which show signs of wear after a couple of operations.
:: The included adjustment shaft is hardened steel, with a large
:: plastic knob and plastic depth adjustment scale. The biggest
:: problem with this arrangement is that, although you can lock and
:: unlock the router body and make fine adjustments from above the
:: router table, major changes still require access to the macro-
:: release tang on the base body - requiring you to reach inside the
:: router table dust collection box to access the lever from
:: underneath. You could conceivably twist on the micro-adjustment,
:: but at 1/8" per revolution, it could take a while, additionally
:: accelerating the wear of the shafts mentioned previously. See also:
comments
concerning the power switch in the router motor evaluation.
::


The housings are different than the 690 series. They are not as smooth
and
Porter Cable may have saved some money here but the machining is
excellent. I
don't care if my tools are "pretty". I want them to be reliable,
accurate,
consistent and safe. Others may feel differently. I don't feel the
locking
lever is too thin and I can not see how it could ever break unless the
router
was dropped. The height adjustment works flawlessly in a table and is not
at
all sloppy. The odor from the hand knobs reinforces my employee hngover
theory
because mine do not emit any odor at all. The collet locking part is
somewhat
sloppy in its fit but it does work very well on the fixed base. The
adjustment
shafts are not made of soft metal. They are diffinately hardened. They
work
well above the table. I can unlock the router and then use my electric
screwdriver with a 3/16" socket to raise the router quickly. The supplied
tool
to make small adjustments works very well.


:: Plunge Base:
:: ---------------------
:: Fortunately, there is more to like here - barely. The castings are,
:: again, very smooth, but considerably more substantial in mass. The
:: hand grips are identical to the fixed base grips - replete with the
:: same strange odor... The same collet lock pin actuator is present,
:: just as sloppy, but slightly easier to actuate. The labels on this
:: body are applied haphazardly as well as on the others - the PC label
:: on front is canted by about 10 degrees. That is, until it falls off
:: like the others have.
::
:: The plunge stop has 3 adjustable stops - two with allen head screws
:: and hex stop nuts, and one thumbscrew adjustment with 32 TPI. The
:: adjustment rate label for this stop peeled off and will not stay on.
:: That gives a total of four (4) stops, including the default - which
:: is the router base itself. The stop rod is an aluminum sleeve with a
:: soft steel turret which rotates inside. It is movable with a
:: thumb/finger while holding the grips. There is a movable plastic
:: hairline(?!) marker that locks with a thumbscrew. Amazingly,
:: however, you cannot see the scale label (also peeling) through the
:: translucent plastic of the hairline! What on earth were they
:: thinking with THIS idea? Additionally, the distance between the
:: hairline (more of a blunt felt tip line than a hairline) and the
:: scale is about 1/4" - leading to parallax errors. That is, IF your
:: could even SEE the scale!
::
:: The router body latch is more like the familiar metal design on the
:: 690 series - all steel with a nut adjustment for clamp pressure. The
:: router sub-base is also the more familiar PC design, with a ledge for
:: using PC template guides. There is a clear plastic dust shield over
:: this, with a non-removable 1" OD (~3/4" ID) vacuum port for dust
:: collection present on the body itself. The spring loaded plunge base
:: has a spring loaded lever for height adjustments, and can be locked
:: into the released position for free plunge operations. I was amazed
:: to find that the router bit height can be changed as much as 1/8" by
:: pressing gently on the router grips while the plunge is locked. This
:: should make precision depth routing quite an interesting and
:: improbable experience. The plunge guide rods appear to be hardened
:: steel and the base does have bronze bushings riding on them - for all
:: the good it does. It turns out that only ONE of the guides is bushed
:: with sintered bronze, the other is plastic, which accounts for the
:: flex and bit movement.


The collet lock on my plunge base does not work. The router does not go
down
far enough to activate the lock. I doubt I would use the lock on this
base
anyway but it is a flaw. I have no problem seeing the scale through the
plastic
and my 58 year old eyes are not what they used to be. However, it could
be
better. I usually use setup bars on a plunge base anyway and never look
at the
scale on the router. The next point is probably the most serious problem
Greg
found in his review. He was able to change the bit height by pressing on
the
router grips. I have tried to duplicate this but I can not. I tried
pushing
everyway I could on the plunge base and the depth of the cut stayed the
same.
There is no flex in mine and it is much smoother than the 690 series
plunge
base. I can not see how his got through any type of quality control with
a
defect like this. The router also has power to spare and runs very smooth
and
quiet.


:: Router Motor
:: -------------------------
:: The router motor itself is fairly quite, and has variable speed
:: (~10,000 - 23,000 RPM) and soft-start. The soft-start feature is
:: slightly disconcerting, however, as it comes up to speed somewhat
:: irregularly - sort of pulsing rather than smoothly. I was totally
:: appalled to find that the motor fields and rotor are NOT varnish
:: dipped or pressure impregnated - a must for a high speed motor - and
:: that the 6004RS bearings are made in China!
::
:: The imported, non-detachable power cord is sufficiently long at 10
:: feet, and has a rubberized strain relief 3" long at the motor
:: housing.
::
:: The top power switch is relatively easy to operate, and shuts the
:: router off when set upside down on a flat surface while running (who
:: the hell does THAT?), but the lower switch is simply a plastic
:: mechanical slide that links to the upper switch and is quite
:: difficult to operate from the hole in the fixed router base. It is
:: completely unusable in the plunge base (great planning, guys!).
:: This same plastic slide is also what 'locks' the collet pin from
:: engaging while the power is applied. I can guarantee that running
:: the router up to max height while the switch is ON WILL break this
:: slide. This means that using the auto collet lock in a router table
:: combined with a remote power switch is problematic.

I don't know much about motors and nothing about varish or pressure
impregnated
windings. If someone can explain the need for this to me, I would
appreciate
it. I have never used a router at full plunge depth and I can see no
situation
where I would need to. The slide could possibly break if this occured and
the
auto lock was turned on. It is easily turned off. Since the collet lock
does
not work on the plunge base, I don't think I will be too concerned with
this.



:: Overall
:: ----------------
:: I'm not sure whether I will actually use thing or return it - but I
:: DO know that it makes my WELL used army green $65.00 B&D RP200 look
:: pretty good in comparison - dual bronze bushings on the plunge rods,
:: no discernable play in the plunge mech, easy to operate power switch
:: on the handle, good balance, and built in dust collection. It's main
:: problems are low power and a 1/4" collet.
::
:: It has been my experience that Chinese ball bearings don't hold up,
:: and that varnishing the windings in a high speed motor is mandatory.
::
:: I bought this because it was supposedly Made In USA / PC quality -
:: but it's not like anything I am familiar with. It is an assemblage
:: of Chinese pot metal and cheap labor, and I fear the only thing Made
:: In USA was the marketing department and the placement of the handles
:: and knobs on the router bases.
::
:: The included CD is a mix of heavy marketing propaganda and a couple
:: of extremely basic plans from Canadian based Oak Park Enterprises,
:: LTD. www.oak-park.com
::
:: 101 - Heart Frame
:: 102 - Book Ends (Incorrectly Identified as a Dovetail Book Stand)
:: 103 - Magic Boxes
::
:: Also included is a series of hokey video clips that demonstrate
:: building a very simplistic benchtop router table from the 'stars' of
:: Public Television's 'The Router Workshop' - sponsored by?
:: You guessed it, Porter Cable.
::
:: Form your own conclusions...
::
:: Greg G.



That made in the USA is a label I used to look for all the time. I kept
buying
American made cars when everyone was telling me that they were junk.
After my
wife got a foreign car, I realized that what everyone was telling me was
right.
My American made car can not compare to her car. I really hate to admit
this.
I think The Chinese have made tremendous improvements in quality control
over
the last ten years and Made in China may not be so bad anymore. I don't
know
what parts of this router were made in the USA. I would not describe it
as made
of "Chinese pot metal and cheap labor". It's becoming a global economy
whether
we want it to or not and we need to accept this change. I had no problem
running
the CD but its content was not anything special.

I appreciate the time Greg took to do his review but I think that anyone
interested in a new router should take a look at this one and draw your
own
conclusions. It has its faults and good points like any other product.

I would also like to thank everyone on this newsgroup for all of the
excellent
answers to questions and the never ending humor that is always present
here. I
think woodworkers have been blessed with more common sense and humor than
the
rest of the population. I hope everyone has a Merry Christmas

Neal

On Sun, 04 Jan 2004 01:58:20 GMT, "Blue"
brought forth from the murky depths:

I too am dissatisfied with the 890 (895 package) and I haven't even put it
-snip-
anyone at PC actually use this thing before they put it into production?
Hard to tell what I will find when I put it in a table. This is the first PC
product I have bought and it may be the last.

Hey, that little HFT router for $69.95 doesn't look so bad now...


(4,378 odd lines snipped here, too.)


================================================== ======
TANSTAAFL: There ain't no such thing as a free lunch.
http://diversify.com Gourmet Web Applications
==========================

Thank you all for your feedback. I was considering buying this
router, but no more. On Amazon.com, all the ratings are glowing, so
for the good of the woodworking public, it would be nice if one of you
guys entered your own rating.

Thanks again for the reviews!

Mark

As a general rule in online surveys where input is given on a voluntary
'call in' basis, complainers are more vocal and give a negative bias to
any information provided. Take any such information with significant
amounts of salt.

If your into believing what the the talk radio/shock jocks say on their
programs then take all that is said hear as true. If your wise you
will take what is said here and then examine it for the truth it
contains or its value before making a decision.

I'm sure they will flame me for this posting and I will be staying away
for a while January is going to be a busy month.

PS commercial reviews also tend to be biased by large advertising
contractacts and what sales people tell you is often biased by the
profit margin of particular products or what management tells them to
push. I own many tools that one or another like to say bad things about.

Mark Wells wrote:

Thank you all for your feedback. I was considering buying this
router, but no more. On Amazon.com, all the ratings are glowing, so
for the good of the woodworking public, it would be nice if one of you
guys entered your own rating.

Thanks again for the reviews!

Mark

In article Pw5Kb.62561$xX.405330@attbi_s02,
says...
As a general rule in online surveys where input is given on a voluntary
'call in' basis, complainers are more vocal and give a negative bias to
any information provided. Take any such information with significant
amounts of salt.

If your into believing what the the talk radio/shock jocks say on their
programs then take all that is said hear as true. If your wise you
will take what is said here and then examine it for the truth it
contains or its value before making a decision.

I'm sure they will flame me for this posting and I will be staying away
for a while January is going to be a busy month.


Maybe so if we could figure out just what it is you are trying to say.

PS commercial reviews also tend to be biased by large advertising
contractacts and what sales people tell you is often biased by the
profit margin of particular products or what management tells them to
push. I own many tools that one or another like to say bad things about.

Mark Wells wrote:

Thank you all for your feedback. I was considering buying this
router, but no more. On Amazon.com, all the ratings are glowing, so
for the good of the woodworking public, it would be nice if one of you
guys entered your own rating.

Thanks again for the reviews!

Mark

Mark Wells said:

Thank you all for your feedback. I was considering buying this
router, but no more. On Amazon.com, all the ratings are glowing, so
for the good of the woodworking public, it would be nice if one of you
guys entered your own rating.

Thanks again for the reviews!

Mark

I DID enter a review on Amazon. It has never appeared.


Greg G.

"Blue" wrote in message . ..
I too am dissatisfied with the 890 (895 package) and I haven't even put it
in a table yet. Immediately discovered that the arbor lock was useless on
the plunge base and the "thumb" switch was useless as well. Why would they
position the thumb switch so it could not be used on a plunge base, for
heaven's sake???? That is the base you use the most for manual routing! I
called PC and complained that the router collet nut is a hair too large to
fit thru the hole in the baseplate (even with the dust collection insert
thing removed) therefore the arbor lock was useless. Their solution was to
send me another baseplate identical to the one on the fixed base which has a
larger bit hole! Then today, I had the need to use one of my 1/4" bits so I
pulled out the included 1/4" collet. The darn thing was so tight I couldn't
get the bit in without tapping it with a mallet (that's good for your bits!)
and then I had to remove the collet and put it in a vise and tap the bit out
from the bottom to get it out! It was the same with all 1/4" bits (Freud and
CMT) so I know it is the collet and not a rogue bit shank. Sheesh! Didn't
anyone at PC actually use this thing before they put it into production?
Hard to tell what I will find when I put it in a table. This is the first PC
product I have bought and it may be the last.

"Neal" wrote in message
...
The review of this router was interesting to me because I have had this
router
for about three weeks and my impressions of it are substantially different
than
Gregs. My impressions are so different that when I started reading his
review I
wondered whether Tool Crib may have sent him a Kitchen Aid blender by
mistake.
If I were Greg, I would send that router back. It must have been
assembled on
Monday morning by an employee suffering a hangover from a weekend long
party.

I have only been doing woodworking for a few years am not an expert with
routers or woodworking. I had a low end router that I mainly used in a
table.
I wanted something more accurate and I also wanted above the table height
adjustment. I looked at the Bosch routers and was very impressed but they
did
not have the above table height adjustment. The Milwaukee did have the
adjustment but still I would have to reach under the table to release the
router
before making the adjustment. The Porter Cable seemed to have everything
I
wanted. It was only a few dollars more than the Milwaukee and it came with
two
bases. I have actually used the router and have it mounted in my table.
I'll
go through Greg's review and add my comments below.


Greg G. wrote:
:: Well, my errant finger pressed the order button on a new Porter Cable
:: 895PK router kit last week, sight unseen. The UPS man delivered it
:: today and I'm a little sorry now that I didn't wait to see one of
:: these in person. Perhaps it's me, but this thing comes off as a
:: quickly designed and assembled collection of cheaply cast Chinese
:: aluminum, replete with peeling labels and plastic parts. The box
:: proudly proclaims, "Made in the USA of US and Imported parts." I get
:: the definite impression that most all the parts are coming from an
:: offshore Chinese factory. I even considered the possibility that
:: perhaps Tool-Crib was selling clone knock-offs of the real thing...

:: I'm used to the substance and feel of the venerable 690 series
:: routers, with well machined collets, heavy duty steel locking levers
:: and the substantial thickness of the housings.


I am familiar with the 690 series and I don't feel that the 890 series has
a
thinner thickness on the housings I went to Home Depot today and looked at
a 690
and I did not see a difference in thickness. The collets seem to be the
same
for both models.


:: To save anyone else from the shock of opening that box for the first
:: time, I am posting a few 'first impressions'. I'll follow up with a
:: more detailed review of the unit's actual performance at a later
:: date. (Read - when it's not 32F in the shop!)
::
:: Overall impressions
:: ---------------------------------------------
:: Packaging/Unit in General:
:: ---------------------------------------------
:: Upon opening the huge blow molded case, I was shocked to find a
:: variety of labels laying throughout the case. Most of the labels
:: refuse to stick to the router, and either fell off in shipping, or
:: are peeling off as I write this. Even the 1/32"/rev marker label on
:: the plunge router base stop adjustment screw peeled off. Some of the
:: label fonts (i.e. The Motor ID label) look like they were printed
:: with a dot matrix printer. The collets are of poor quality, at
:: least in comparison to the older PC models, and the machine work is
:: obviously offshore. The collet wrench is soft stamped steel, again,
:: offshore. The black blow molded case(s) is/are a two piece design,
:: each with storage for five 1/2" and five 1/4" bits and the collets,
:: as well as template guides, collet wrench and height adjustment rod.
:: They can be separated into two identical units, each with storage
:: for the appropriate base. Each case may be used as a router
:: pedestal, with knockouts on the bottom for standing the router
:: upright with a bit installed. The top and bottom are not hinged but
:: are of a clamshell design, being held together with metal flip-
:: clasps.
::

All of the labels on mine were properly attached. None were loose. The
Main
Porter Cable label is slightly crooked. The collet wrench is of poor
quality.


:: Fixed Base:
:: ---------------------
:: Although the various angles on the base are very rounded, the finish
:: of the sand castings is very consistent, and the forms used were
:: smoothed well before production, the housings on this base are
:: extremely thin wall, and the router body locking lever is very thin
:: aluminum - I thought it would crack the first time I engaged it. The
:: actuating clamp tangs are so thin that after just a couple of
:: operations, the aluminum is coming off in slivers. Additionally, the
:: lever just flops around in the base. The height adjustment worm
:: appears to be metal, as is the rack on the router body. - but the
:: worm has just one thread of engagement, and is rather sloppy at
:: that. The base plate is clear plastic, but I'm unsure whether it is
:: styrene or polycarbonate. Unfortunately, it is filled with open
:: ribs and valleys that catch every piece of debris that falls -
:: making the clear base impossible to see through when used upright.
:: You cannot use a template guide with this base plate. The hand hold
:: knobs are reasonably well formed, although they strongly emit the
:: most peculiar odor... The router collet locking pin is hardened
:: steel and may be actuated automatically by a movable tang, which
:: engages at full router depth. This behavior may be overridden by
:: moving the tang. The tang is metal, but sloppy in fit, and hard to
:: move reliably. You may also press the collet lock pin with a
:: finger. The macro-adjustment release lever is plastic and spring
:: loaded, but seems to operate smoothly. My biggest complaint about
:: this base is that it is designed, as supplied, solely for use in a
:: router table. And therein lies the rub. The router body release
:: lever and the micro adjustment are tiny 3/16" hex headed shafts of
:: soft metal which show signs of wear after a couple of operations.
:: The included adjustment shaft is hardened steel, with a large
:: plastic knob and plastic depth adjustment scale. The biggest
:: problem with this arrangement is that, although you can lock and
:: unlock the router body and make fine adjustments from above the
:: router table, major changes still require access to the macro-
:: release tang on the base body - requiring you to reach inside the
:: router table dust collection box to access the lever from
:: underneath. You could conceivably twist on the micro-adjustment,
:: but at 1/8" per revolution, it could take a while, additionally
:: accelerating the wear of the shafts mentioned previously. See also:
comments
concerning the power switch in the router motor evaluation.
::


The housings are different than the 690 series. They are not as smooth
and
Porter Cable may have saved some money here but the machining is
excellent. I
don't care if my tools are "pretty". I want them to be reliable,
accurate,
consistent and safe. Others may feel differently. I don't feel the
locking
lever is too thin and I can not see how it could ever break unless the
router
was dropped. The height adjustment works flawlessly in a table and is not
at
all sloppy. The odor from the hand knobs reinforces my employee hangover
theory
because mine do not emit any odor at all. The collet locking part is
somewhat
sloppy in its fit but it doe work very well on the fixed base. The
adjustment
shafts are not made of soft metal. They are diffinately hardened. They
work
well above the table. I can unlock the router and then use my electric
screwdriver with a 3/16" socket to raise the router quickly. The supplied
tool
to make small adjustments works very well.


:: Plunge Base:
:: ---------------------
:: Fortunately, there is more to like here - barely. The castings are,
:: again, very smooth, but considerably more substantial in mass. The
:: hand grips are identical to the fixed base grips - replete with the
:: same strange odor... The same collet lock pin actuator is present,
:: just as sloppy, but slightly easier to actuate. The labels on this
:: body are applied haphazardly as well as on the others - the PC label
:: on front is canted by about 10 degrees. That is, until it falls off
:: like the others have.
::
:: The plunge stop has 3 adjustable stops - two with allen head screws
:: and hex stop nuts, and one thumbscrew adjustment with 32 TPI. The
:: adjustment rate label for this stop peeled off and will not stay on.
:: That gives a total of four (4) stops, including the default - which
:: is the router base itself. The stop rod is an aluminum sleeve with a
:: soft steel turret which rotates inside. It is movable with a
:: thumb/finger while holding the grips. There is a movable plastic
:: hairline(?!) marker that locks with a thumbscrew. Amazingly,
:: however, you cannot see the scale label (also peeling) through the
:: translucent plastic of the hairline! What on earth were they
:: thinking with THIS idea? Additionally, the distance between the
:: hairline (more of a blunt felt tip line than a hairline) and the
:: scale is about 1/4" - leading to parallax errors. That is, IF your
:: could even SEE the scale!
::
:: The router body latch is more like the familiar metal design on the
:: 690 series - all steel with a nut adjustment for clamp pressure. The
:: router sub-base is also the more familiar PC design, with a ledge for
:: using PC template guides. There is a clear plastic dust shield over
:: this, with a non-removable 1" OD (~3/4" ID) vacuum port for dust
:: collection present on the body itself. The spring loaded plunge base
:: has a spring loaded lever for height adjustments, and can be locked
:: into the released position for free plunge operations. I was amazed
:: to find that the router bit height can be changed as much as 1/8" by
:: pressing gently on the router grips while the plunge is locked. This
:: should make precision depth routing quite an interesting and
:: improbable experience. The plunge guide rods appear to be hardened
:: steel and the base does have bronze bushings riding on them - for all
:: the good it does. It turns out that only ONE of the guides is bushed
:: with sintered bronze, the other is plastic, which accounts for the
:: flex and bit movement.


The collet lock on my plunge base does not work. The router does not go
down
far enough to activate the lock. I doubt I would use the lock on this
base
anyway but it is a flaw. I have no problem seeing the scale through the
plastic
and my 58 year old eyes are not what they used to be. However, it could
be
better. I usually use setup bars on a plunge base anyway and never look
at the
scale on the router. The next point is probably the most serious problem
Greg
found in his review. He was able to change the bit height by pressing on
the
router grips. I have tried to duplicate this but I can not. I tried
pushing
everyway I could on the plunge base and the depth of the cut stayed the
same.
There is no flex in mine and it is much smoother than the 690 series
plunge
base. I can not see how his got through any type of quality control with
a
defect like this. The router also has power to spare and runs very smooth
and
quiet.


:: Router Motor
:: -------------------------
:: The router motor itself is fairly quite, and has variable speed
:: (~10,000 - 23,000 RPM) and soft-start. The soft-start feature is
:: slightly disconcerting, however, as it comes up to speed somewhat
:: irregularly - sort of pulsing rather than smoothly. I was totally
:: appalled to find that the motor fields and rotor are NOT varnish
:: dipped or pressure impregnated - a must for a high speed motor - and
:: that the 6004RS bearings are made in China!
::
:: The imported, non-detachable power cord is sufficiently long at 10
:: feet, and has a rubberized strain relief 3" long at the motor
:: housing.
::
:: The top power switch is relatively easy to operate, and shuts the
:: router off when set upside down on a flat surface while running (who
:: the hell does THAT?), but the lower switch is simply a plastic
:: mechanical slide that links to the upper switch and is quite
:: difficult to operate from the hole in the fixed router base. It is
:: completely unusable in the plunge base (great planning, guys!).
:: This same plastic slide is also what 'locks' the collet pin from
:: engaging while the power is applied. I can guarantee that running
:: the router up to max height while the switch is ON WILL break this
:: slide. This means that using the auto collet lock in a router table
:: combined with a remote power switch is problematic.

I don't know much about motors and nothing about varish or pressure
impregnated
windings. If someone can explain the need for this to me, I would
appreciate
it. I have never used a router at full plunge depth and I can see no
situation
where I would need to. The slide could possibly break if this occured and
the
auto lock was turned on. It is easily turned off. Since the collet lock
does
not work on the plunge base, I don't think I will be too concerned with
this.



:: Overall
:: ----------------
:: I'm not sure whether I will actually use thing or return it - but I
:: DO know that it makes my WELL used army green $65.00 B&D RP200 look
:: pretty good in comparison - dual bronze bushings on the plunge rods,
:: no discernable play in the plunge mech, easy to operate power switch
:: on the handle, good balance, and built in dust collection. It's main
:: problems are low power and a 1/4" collet.
::
:: It has been my experience that Chinese ball bearings don't hold up,
:: and that varnishing the windings in a high speed motor is mandatory.
::
:: I bought this because it was supposedly Made In USA / PC quality -
:: but it's not like anything I am familiar with. It is an assemblage
:: of Chinese pot metal and cheap labor, and I fear the only thing Made
:: In USA was the marketing department and the placement of the handles
:: and knobs on the router bases.
::
:: The included CD is a mix of heavy marketing propaganda and a couple
:: of extremely basic plans from Canadian based Oak Park Enterprises,
:: LTD. www.oak-park.com
::
:: 101 - Heart Frame
:: 102 - Book Ends (Incorrectly Identified as a Dovetail Book Stand)
:: 103 - Magic Boxes
::
:: Also included is a series of hokey video clips that demonstrate
:: building a very simplistic benchtop router table from the 'stars' of
:: Public Television's 'The Router Workshop' - sponsored by?
:: You guessed it, Porter Cable.
::
:: Form your own conclusions...
::
:: Greg G.



That made in the USA is a label I used to look for all the time. I kept
buying
American made cars when everyone was telling me that they were junk.
After my
wife got a foreign car, I realized that what everyone was telling me was
right.
My American made car can not compare to her car. I really hate to admit
this.
I think The Chinese have made tremendous improvements in quality control
over
the last ten years and Made in China may not be so bad anymore. I don't
know
what parts of this router were made in the USA. I would not describe it
as made
of "Chinese pot metal and cheap labor". It's becoming a global economy
whether
we want it to or not and we need to accept this change. I had no problem
running
the CD but its content was not anything special.

I appreciate the time Greg took to do his review but I think that anyone
interested in a new router should take a look at this one and draw your
own
conclusions. It has its faults and good points like any other product.

I would also like to thank everyone on this newsgroup for all of the
excellent
answers to questions and the never ending humor that is always present
here. I
think woodworkers have been blessed with more common sense and humor than
the
rest of the population. I hope everyone has a Merry Christmas

Neal



I'm just about ready to take the plunge on a PC 895 and then I read
this. Now I'm not sure what to buy?? I liked the PC but your making me
a little nervous about it. My other thought was to go with the Dewalt
DW618 any thoughts?? yuou guy's seem to really know your stuff and I'm
buying my very first router.
Thanks

Well, I finally remembered to look at the lockout slide that is
supposed to keep you from changing bits while the power is on. I
don't know if mine is broken or if it is supposed to work this way.
When I raise the router to its highest position using the above the
table tool, it locks the collet fine. When I take the router out of
the table and do it by hand, the lock seems to work. I can force the
router past the lock, but it is hard by hand. When using the above
the table tool, it happens easily. It looks like the added torque of
the tool allows it to force the locking pin past the lockout slide.
However, the slide does not appear to be "broken", but rather just
takes a lot of force to push the pin through the slide.

That said, maybe I did break it the first time I tried to raise it all
the way up? Does anyone know if this is supposed to happen? Is this
a safety risk that I should be concerned about? Should I consider
taking it back? Personally, I like the way it works for me right now,
but I'm concerned that it will get more loose over time and the
lockout won't work at all. Is that likely a real issue on the fixed
base? Since I wouldn't be adjusting the height while running the
motor, I'm not sure this could be a real safety concern.

YJJim

Greg G. wrote in message . ..
YJJim said:

The auto-collet on mine works, BUT... I had to remove the plastic
"dust director" (or whatever you call it) plate. On the 894 fixed
base, there is a plastic insert that directs dust to the handle for
the through the handle dust removal. This insert prevents the fixed
base from extending to the lowest router position. I was very annoyed
when I first got the router becuase the auto-collet didn't work and
the above the table features were why I bought this thing. Well,
after examining the mechansim, I saw the problem and removed the
plastic insert. Once gone, the auto-collet on the fixed base works
perfectly. The only problem is that if you want to use the through
the handle feature, you will have to reinsert the plastic piece. I
don't really plan to take the fixed base out of my table very often so
this isn't a major concern.

The PC895PK kit doesn't have the plastic dust shield on the fixed
base, but it IS on the plunge base. But the router body rack (toothed
rack running down the side of the router body) hits the fixed base and
causes the router to twist in the base before the collet lock pin ever
engages. Doesn't work at all.

I can't comment on the plunge right now because I have only used the
plunge twice and don't remember whether it worked correctly or not. I
am mostly using this router in the table.

Plunge hits the dust shield before engaging, as did your fixed base.
But even with the plastic dust collection plate removed - which is
stupid because that is when you WANT dust collection, when doing
hand-held plunge routing - the plunge base collet lock doesn't work.

I don't have this problem. I have mine plugged in to a seperate power
switch in the table and the router switch is always in the "on"
position. I don't understand the problem you have because mine works
perfectly.

The plastic switch lock-out slide keeps the pin from engaging - it was
designed to do that very thing. Perhaps you have already broken yours
without knowing/noticing. That was one of my complaints.

[Q] If you leave your router on, change bits from the top of the
table, and use the auto-collet lock, look at yours and see if it has
broken the plastic slide. I'd bet you a donut it has.

I don't understand this comment either. Mine has two holes in the
plate for making through the table adjustments. First, you insert the
tool in the first hole and unlock the locking mechanism (this releases
the motor catch). Second, you insert the tool in the second hole and
adjust the height. Once the height is adjusted, you relock the
mechanism. Hence, no reaching under the table is required.

I understand how it works. The point was, to move the router up and
down for bit changes, or make major adjustments in height, you would
have to turn that screw 16 full turns - a bit of a pain. The lock
that releases the body for *major* adjustments or body removal in
still under the table. No big deal, but a Mast-R-Lift would be a much
more eloquent solution.

I'm interested to hear if any of this helps with your problems, but it
sounds like Greg may have gotten a lemon. I am very happy with my
PC894 and have no thoughts about returning it.

The motor itself seems like a serviceable piece, even if it IS made in
China with offshore bearings and such. The soft-start/speed
controller is made in Holland, FYI. I am just shocked at how many of
the "special features" on this unit were poorly designed and don't
work properly. This unit has the feel of something that was rushed
into market with little testing. I expected more of PC.


Greg G.

YJJim said:

Well, I finally remembered to look at the lockout slide that is
supposed to keep you from changing bits while the power is on. I
don't know if mine is broken or if it is supposed to work this way.
When I raise the router to its highest position using the above the
table tool, it locks the collet fine. When I take the router out of
the table and do it by hand, the lock seems to work. I can force the
router past the lock, but it is hard by hand. When using the above
the table tool, it happens easily. It looks like the added torque of
the tool allows it to force the locking pin past the lockout slide.
However, the slide does not appear to be "broken", but rather just
takes a lot of force to push the pin through the slide.

That said, maybe I did break it the first time I tried to raise it all
the way up? Does anyone know if this is supposed to happen? Is this
a safety risk that I should be concerned about? Should I consider
taking it back? Personally, I like the way it works for me right now,
but I'm concerned that it will get more loose over time and the
lockout won't work at all. Is that likely a real issue on the fixed
base? Since I wouldn't be adjusting the height while running the
motor, I'm not sure this could be a real safety concern.

YJJim

I wouldn't worry about it - it's a dumb design anyway. I considered
cutting the end of the plastic slide off myself. I think I have
enough sense not to raise the router up till the pin locks with the
power on - besides, it probably wouldn't lock anyway, only make a
horrible sound... If you really forced it, it might lock - or break
off the pin housing...
FWIW,

Greg G.

I'm just about ready to take the plunge on a PC 895 and then I read
this. Now I'm not sure what to buy?? I liked the PC but your making me
a little nervous about it. My other thought was to go with the Dewalt
DW618 any thoughts?? yuou guy's seem to really know your stuff and I'm
buying my very first router.
Thanks

I'm in the same boat as you but this will be my second router. The
first one was the $99 router and table setup from Craftsman. It is so
hard to use I always find a work around so I don't have to use it I
have been looking at the Milwaukee 5616-21 2-1/4 Max HP EVS BodyGrip
Router Kit. I don't know if anyone here has input on that model but
look into it.

"Carmmond" wrote in message
om...
I'm just about ready to take the plunge on a PC 895 and then I read
this. Now I'm not sure what to buy?? I liked the PC but your making me
a little nervous about it. My other thought was to go with the Dewalt
DW618 any thoughts?? yuou guy's seem to really know your stuff and I'm
buying my very first router.
Thanks

I'm in the same boat as you but this will be my second router. The
first one was the $99 router and table setup from Craftsman. It is so
hard to use I always find a work around so I don't have to use it I
have been looking at the Milwaukee 5616-21 2-1/4 Max HP EVS BodyGrip
Router Kit. I don't know if anyone here has input on that model but
look into it.


I've had more time to work with the PC 895 router and although Greg brought up
some good points especially with the plunge base, the router performs very
well. I am very impressed with its performance in a table with the fixed base.
The adjustment works perfectly and I can't think of anyway it could be improved
upon. It has plenty of power and runs very quiet. I have not worked with the
plunge base very much but I have had good consistent results with it each time I
tried it. I only paid $200 for it and I don't think that I could do better
for that amount. Time will tell.


Neal

Neal,
I am assuming that you plug the router into a switch in your table? I don't
have a table with a switch (just threw together a benchtop table) but I
can't see anyway to mount the router so I can still reach the switch (have
it in front) and use the thru the table adjustments while using a bit
enclosing fence. The adjustment holes are located so they fall right below
the fence and obviously, I don't want to move the fence setup to make height
adjustments. Maybe I am missing something here...when this darn cold weather
passes and I can get back out in my shop, I will re-evaluate the situation.
The router does do a nice job and is VERY quiet!

"Neal" wrote in message
...

"Carmmond" wrote in message
om...
I'm just about ready to take the plunge on a PC 895 and then I read
this. Now I'm not sure what to buy?? I liked the PC but your making me
a little nervous about it. My other thought was to go with the Dewalt
DW618 any thoughts?? yuou guy's seem to really know your stuff and I'm
buying my very first router.
Thanks

I'm in the same boat as you but this will be my second router. The
first one was the $99 router and table setup from Craftsman. It is so
hard to use I always find a work around so I don't have to use it I
have been looking at the Milwaukee 5616-21 2-1/4 Max HP EVS BodyGrip
Router Kit. I don't know if anyone here has input on that model but
look into it.


I've had more time to work with the PC 895 router and although Greg
brought up
some good points especially with the plunge base, the router performs
very
well. I am very impressed with its performance in a table with the fixed
base.
The adjustment works perfectly and I can't think of anyway it could be
improved
upon. It has plenty of power and runs very quiet. I have not worked with
the
plunge base very much but I have had good consistent results with it each
time I
tried it. I only paid $200 for it and I don't think that I could do
better
for that amount. Time will tell.


Neal