I'm considering a Yorkcraft 8" jointer that comes with a 2hp motor that
would draw 22 full load amps at 110 volts. However all I have to run
the jointer on is a 110v 20 amp circuit. I don't expect to use the
jointer frequently.

Am I out of luck?

Steve

"Steve" wrote in message
oups.com...
I'm considering a Yorkcraft 8" jointer that comes with a 2hp motor that
would draw 22 full load amps at 110 volts. However all I have to run
the jointer on is a 110v 20 amp circuit. I don't expect to use the
jointer frequently.

Am I out of luck?

If you don't run it frequently, you won't have to reset the breaker very
often. If you manage to get it running, it may go long enough to make a
pass on a short board.

BTW. 80% of the rating is considered a safe load,

"Steve" wrote in message
oups.com...
I'm considering a Yorkcraft 8" jointer that comes with a 2hp motor that
would draw 22 full load amps at 110 volts. However all I have to run
the jointer on is a 110v 20 amp circuit. I don't expect to use the
jointer frequently.

Am I out of luck?

Steve


Your mileage may vary but, Generally speaking an electric motor draws the
most amperage just before it stalls and during start up. If you are running
the saw to its full load capacity it may not last very long and the breaker
tripping may serve as an indicator that you are running at capacity although
the breaker is intended to protect the wiring in your building. Most
circuit breakers will allow brief periods of higher amperage before
tripping. IMHO you will probably be OK.
I have a compressor that runs on a 15 amp circuit and it has a 15 amp rating
and I can also run a fan, and light at the same time on the same circuit.
But do not continue to run the big router or the breaker will trip as the
compressor nears completion of its cycle. :~)

"Steve" wrote in message
oups.com...
I'm considering a Yorkcraft 8" jointer that comes with a 2hp motor that
would draw 22 full load amps at 110 volts. However all I have to run
the jointer on is a 110v 20 amp circuit. I don't expect to use the
jointer frequently.


It is hard to say. I doubt that it will ever be under "full load" so that
shouldn't be a problem. Where your problem might be is in it starting as
that is when they always pull excessive current. I ran my entire shop
(except for the lights) on one 20 amp circuit for years and only blew the
breaker twice, both times when starting the DC while another machine was
running. If this jointer is a "good deal" that is time limited, I would go
for it. Is there a reason that you cannot upgrade to a higher capacity
circuit?

--
If at first you don't succeed, you're not cut out for skydiving

On Thu, 05 Jan 2006 15:27:40 GMT, "TBone"
wrote:


"Steve" wrote in message
roups.com...
I'm considering a Yorkcraft 8" jointer that comes with a 2hp motor that
would draw 22 full load amps at 110 volts. However all I have to run
the jointer on is a 110v 20 amp circuit. I don't expect to use the
jointer frequently.


It is hard to say. I doubt that it will ever be under "full load" so that
shouldn't be a problem. Where your problem might be is in it starting as
that is when they always pull excessive current. I ran my entire shop
(except for the lights) on one 20 amp circuit for years and only blew the
breaker twice, both times when starting the DC while another machine was
running. If this jointer is a "good deal" that is time limited, I would go
for it. Is there a reason that you cannot upgrade to a higher capacity
circuit?

Or just as easily, is there any reason why he can't run the motor on
240V? i.e. is it a convertible motor? (I'm passing the question to the
OP through your post since I had already deleted the OP.)

--
LRod

Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite

Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999

http://www.woodbutcher.net

Proud participant of rec.woodworking since February, 1997

"Steve" wrote in message
oups.com...
I'm considering a Yorkcraft 8" jointer that comes with a 2hp motor that
would draw 22 full load amps at 110 volts. However all I have to run
the jointer on is a 110v 20 amp circuit. I don't expect to use the
jointer frequently.

I don't disagree with the others that it will kinda work as long as you
don't mind tripping breakers and all the safety issues that involves.

But I would also warn against voltage drop. That can really kill a motor
and yours will be pretty bad on a 20a line.
If you can convert to 240v and put in a new circuit, that would certainly be
the right thing to do.

Jim wrote:

"LRod" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 05 Jan 2006 15:27:40 GMT, "TBone"
wrote:


"Steve" wrote in message
groups.com...
I'm considering a Yorkcraft 8" jointer that comes with a 2hp motor that
would draw 22 full load amps at 110 volts. However all I have to run
the jointer on is a 110v 20 amp circuit. I don't expect to use the
jointer frequently.


It is hard to say. I doubt that it will ever be under "full load" so that
shouldn't be a problem. Where your problem might be is in it starting as
that is when they always pull excessive current. I ran my entire shop
(except for the lights) on one 20 amp circuit for years and only blew the
breaker twice, both times when starting the DC while another machine was
running. If this jointer is a "good deal" that is time limited, I would
go
for it. Is there a reason that you cannot upgrade to a higher capacity
circuit?

Or just as easily, is there any reason why he can't run the motor on
240V? i.e. is it a convertible motor? (I'm passing the question to the
OP through your post since I had already deleted the OP.)

I believe that the OP meant that all he has is a 20 amp 120 volt line.

Yeah, but switching a 120v line to be a 240v line is simply a new circuit
breaker, a new outlet, and two pieces of black tape. A ten minute job.
Increasing the amps requires running bigger wire as well as getting a
new breaker and outlet.

"LRod" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 05 Jan 2006 15:27:40 GMT, "TBone"
wrote:


"Steve" wrote in message
groups.com...
I'm considering a Yorkcraft 8" jointer that comes with a 2hp motor that
would draw 22 full load amps at 110 volts. However all I have to run
the jointer on is a 110v 20 amp circuit. I don't expect to use the
jointer frequently.


It is hard to say. I doubt that it will ever be under "full load" so that
shouldn't be a problem. Where your problem might be is in it starting as
that is when they always pull excessive current. I ran my entire shop
(except for the lights) on one 20 amp circuit for years and only blew the
breaker twice, both times when starting the DC while another machine was
running. If this jointer is a "good deal" that is time limited, I would
go
for it. Is there a reason that you cannot upgrade to a higher capacity
circuit?

Or just as easily, is there any reason why he can't run the motor on
240V? i.e. is it a convertible motor? (I'm passing the question to the
OP through your post since I had already deleted the OP.)

--
LRod

Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite

Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999

http://www.woodbutcher.net

Proud participant of rec.woodworking since February, 1997
I believe that the OP meant that all he has is a 20 amp 120 volt line.
Jim

wrote in message

Yeah, but switching a 120v line to be a 240v line is simply a new circuit
breaker, a new outlet, and two pieces of black tape. A ten minute job.
Increasing the amps requires running bigger wire as well as getting a
new breaker and outlet.


Unless that circuit is also feeding other receptacles, lights, etc.

"LRod" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 05 Jan 2006 15:27:40 GMT, "TBone"
wrote:


"Steve" wrote in message
roups.com...
I'm considering a Yorkcraft 8" jointer that comes with a 2hp motor that
would draw 22 full load amps at 110 volts. However all I have to run
the jointer on is a 110v 20 amp circuit. I don't expect to use the
jointer frequently.


It is hard to say. I doubt that it will ever be under "full load" so
that
shouldn't be a problem. Where your problem might be is in it starting as
that is when they always pull excessive current. I ran my entire shop
(except for the lights) on one 20 amp circuit for years and only blew the
breaker twice, both times when starting the DC while another machine was
running. If this jointer is a "good deal" that is time limited, I would
go
for it. Is there a reason that you cannot upgrade to a higher capacity
circuit?

Or just as easily, is there any reason why he can't run the motor on
240V? i.e. is it a convertible motor? (I'm passing the question to the
OP through your post since I had already deleted the OP.)


As stated by the OP above my post, he said all he had was a 110V 20A circuit
and I was asking why he couldn't switch to 220V one.

--
If at first you don't succeed, you're not cut out for skydiving

Or the panel it is running from does not have a 220V position (double slot)
available.

--
If at first you don't succeed, you're not cut out for skydiving
"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
news:S9cvf.2785$494.1971@trndny07...

wrote in message

Yeah, but switching a 120v line to be a 240v line is simply a new
circuit
breaker, a new outlet, and two pieces of black tape. A ten minute job.
Increasing the amps requires running bigger wire as well as getting a
new breaker and outlet.


Unless that circuit is also feeding other receptacles, lights, etc.

"Steve" wrote in message
oups.com...
I'm considering a Yorkcraft 8" jointer that comes with a 2hp motor that
would draw 22 full load amps at 110 volts. However all I have to run
the jointer on is a 110v 20 amp circuit. I don't expect to use the
jointer frequently.

Am I out of luck?

Steve


I agree that the best solution is an upgrade to 220 v circuit. But this
will take two slots in your breaker box, so you will need to have an empty
slot or give up a current circuit - but you would not have to chanage the
wire, only the receptacle. And, of course, the connection to the motor has
to be redone (which is probably possible for this size motor). But if you
do decide to keep it on 110 v, make sure that the wire size on the current
20 amp circuit is 12 gauge or larger (10 guage would be preferable). I
have seen many cases where someone at some time simply replaced a 15 amp
breaker on 14 gauge wire with a 20 amp breaker w/o changing the wire. That
is dangerous!!!

dondone wrote:

I agree that the best solution is an upgrade to 220 v circuit. But this
will take two slots in your breaker box,

Not necessarily.

Many brands of breaker panels can accommodate half-sized double pole
breakers. Some panels will only take them in certain slots, but moving
breakers isn't usually a big deal.

Barry

Appreciate everyone's comments. My attached garage/shop has only one
110V 20A circuit for all the outlets/lights and the breaker box is in
the house's basement about 90 feet away, so I think my re-wiring
options are limited and costly.

Anybody know if there's any good 1.5HP 8" jointers available? Is it
worth considering replacing the Yorkcraft 8" jointer 2.0HP motor with a
1.5HP?

Steve

Before replacing the motor, I would run it with the one it has and see what
happens. In most cases, you should be fine since I believe that both my 1.5
HP dust collector and 1.5 HP table saw will use more power than your single
2HP jointer. You also might want to consider having a 60 Amp 220 line
pulled into your garage and put a sub panel out there for your shop needs
and leave the existing one for the lights. Then you can wire your shop to
the specifics of your tools easily.
--
If at first you don't succeed, you're not cut out for skydiving

"Steve" wrote in message
oups.com...
Appreciate everyone's comments. My attached garage/shop has only one
110V 20A circuit for all the outlets/lights and the breaker box is in
the house's basement about 90 feet away, so I think my re-wiring
options are limited and costly.

Anybody know if there's any good 1.5HP 8" jointers available? Is it
worth considering replacing the Yorkcraft 8" jointer 2.0HP motor with a
1.5HP?

Steve

Really? Which ones?

--
If at first you don't succeed, you're not cut out for skydiving
"B a r r y" wrote in message
. ..
dondone wrote:

I agree that the best solution is an upgrade to 220 v circuit. But this
will take two slots in your breaker box,

Not necessarily.

Many brands of breaker panels can accommodate half-sized double pole
breakers. Some panels will only take them in certain slots, but moving
breakers isn't usually a big deal.

Barry

Steve wrote:
Appreciate everyone's comments. My attached garage/shop has only one
110V 20A circuit for all the outlets/lights and the breaker box is in
the house's basement about 90 feet away, so I think my re-wiring
options are limited and costly.

Anybody know if there's any good 1.5HP 8" jointers available? Is it
worth considering replacing the Yorkcraft 8" jointer 2.0HP motor with a
1.5HP?

Steve

Rewire the motor for 220 volts, but leave it connected to 110.

I have a used table saw with a 1hp motor I have run for several years.
All OK, but seemed a little underpowered. Come to find out the motor
was set for 220 volts but I was running it on 110.

Low voltage (brown-out) doesn't hurt a motor unless the motor is
heavily loaded. Then it draws excessive current to try and make up for
the low voltage. At half the rated voltage, the motor will stall
before it can hurt itself. If it were left stalled, it may get hot,
but since you wouldn't leave it that way, no harm done.

Try it. It won't cost anything and I expect you won't even notice the
lower power unless you do some deep cuts on wide boards. If you don't
like it, you can always put it back to 110 and try something else.

Allen

TBone wrote:
Really? Which ones?



I think mine are either Square D or GE.

The breakers are even sold in HD & Lowes. One of my panels will only
accommodate half space breakers in the bottom 6 slots (3+3), the other,
larger panel will take many more. The very modest house (not custom by
any means) was built in 1990, so they aren't THAT new.

I know what you are talking about at HD but IIRC, none of them support 220V
but I could be wrong. In order for that to happen, the double half sized
breaker would need to come in contact with both poles and I am unaware of
any box that would support that or how it could even be done unless the box
has slots reserved for only that type of breaker. All of the double single
slot breakers I've seen just give you two 110V circuits in the space of 1
but they are both on the same pole. I have to go to HD later and now you
have me curious so I will head to the electrical department to check that
out.

--
If at first you don't succeed, you're not cut out for skydiving

"B a r r y" wrote in message
m...
TBone wrote:
Really? Which ones?



I think mine are either Square D or GE.

The breakers are even sold in HD & Lowes. One of my panels will only
accommodate half space breakers in the bottom 6 slots (3+3), the other,
larger panel will take many more. The very modest house (not custom by
any means) was built in 1990, so they aren't THAT new.

TBone wrote:
I know what you are talking about at HD but IIRC, none of them support 220V
but I could be wrong. In order for that to happen, the double half sized
breaker would need to come in contact with both poles and I am unaware of
any box that would support that or how it could even be done unless the box
has slots reserved for only that type of breaker. All of the double single
slot breakers I've seen just give you two 110V circuits in the space of 1
but they are both on the same pole. I have to go to HD later and now you
have me curious so I will head to the electrical department to check that
out.

I think he's talking about a quad breaker. You can run four 110v, two 110v
and a 220v, or two 220v circuits off a two slot quad breaker.

In the case he is discussing, it is a half, two halves tied together for
a 220, and another half. The center two halves do take up a "single slot
space", the catch is you need to have a half above and below it because
it needs to span two poles.

"Steve" wrote in message
oups.com...
Appreciate everyone's comments. My attached garage/shop has only one
110V 20A circuit for all the outlets/lights and the breaker box is in
the house's basement about 90 feet away, so I think my re-wiring
options are limited and costly.

Anybody know if there's any good 1.5HP 8" jointers available? Is it
worth considering replacing the Yorkcraft 8" jointer 2.0HP motor with a
1.5HP?


It might be worth considering if you actually find that the jointer has a
problem with the 2 hp motor.

On 5 Jan 2006 07:08:20 -0800, "Steve" wrote:

I'm considering a Yorkcraft 8" jointer that comes with a 2hp motor that
would draw 22 full load amps at 110 volts.

What are you going to use it for ? If it's a question of start-up
current, then so long as it doesn't have a huge cast iron head, then you
should have no trouble. If you're intending to use it for typical
"amateur" use with some occasional need for the extra width, then that's
OK. Only if you're planning on smoothing down rough pitch pine with
heavy cuts because you're in a hurry is a 2hp motor really going to need
to draw that sort of current.

Personally I'd use it. But I might adjust the overload relay in the
motor starter so that _that_ was what tripped first, rather than the
fusebox breaker. It's not good practice to repeatedly trip fusebox
breakers, they don't have the wear lifetime for it.

OTOH, I'd be lost without my 3hp cabinet saw. If this feed is the best
you have to your whole workshop, then I'd certainly want to upgrade it.
My own workshop has no dedicated feed at all - fortunately I'm in the UK
where every outlet is 4hp as standard 8-)

"Steve" wrote in message
oups.com...
Appreciate everyone's comments. My attached garage/shop has only one
110V 20A circuit for all the outlets/lights and the breaker box is in
the house's basement about 90 feet away, so I think my re-wiring
options are limited and costly.

You're living on the edge as it is. When that breaker trips the lights do
out. That is not a lot of fun with power tools. Since you are buying a
jointer, I assume you are running other power tools also. What is the DC
going to run on?

Your options may not be as limited as you think. There are was of getting
power that may seem illogical, but are done all the time. Fishing a wire 90
feet may be a PITA, but it is also possible to run a line outside along the
house and back into the garage. There are safe and code compliant ways of
doing that. Talk to an electrician and he'll probably have a half dozen
solutions to give you plenty of power for many tools. He will probably want
to keep the lights and add circuits for the tools.
Ed

"Steve" wrote in message
oups.com...
Appreciate everyone's comments. My attached garage/shop has only one
110V 20A circuit for all the outlets/lights and the breaker box is in
the house's basement about 90 feet away, so I think my re-wiring
options are limited and costly.

If the breaker box is 90' away, the voltage drop will kill you.
http://www.electrician.com/vd_calculator.html

Anybody know if there's any good 1.5HP 8" jointers available? Is it
worth considering replacing the Yorkcraft 8" jointer 2.0HP motor with a
1.5HP?

It took me 2 hours and maybe $40 in materials to run a 240v line 80' to my
TS. Certainly that is a better idea than replacing a motor!
Don't you want to use a DC with your jointer? How are you going to do that?
In fact, if you have 2 amps going to your lights, then you will be trying to
put 24a on a 20a circuit just for the jointer; a horribly bad idea.
I never use more than one tool at a time, but I have a 240v and 3 120v
circuits to my shop; and it is not much of a shop.
Somebody suggested putting in a 60a subpanel. I wish I had done that, but I
put them in one at a time, thinking each would be the last one.

In article .com,
wrote:
Rewire the motor for 220 volts, but leave it connected to 110.

I have a used table saw with a 1hp motor I have run for several years.
All OK, but seemed a little underpowered. Come to find out the motor
was set for 220 volts but I was running it on 110.

Low voltage (brown-out) doesn't hurt a motor unless the motor is
heavily loaded. Then it draws excessive current to try and make up for
the low voltage. At half the rated voltage, the motor will stall
before it can hurt itself. If it were left stalled, it may get hot,
but since you wouldn't leave it that way, no harm done.

DO NOT DO THIS, unless you can carefully monitor the temperature of
the motor, and preferably the current going into the motor (you have
to monitor the current, because you can't monitor the temperature of
the motor windings, and those can get hot very quickly, before the
outside of the motor becomes dangerously high). Or unless you have a
supply of free replacement motors, and enjoy exchanging them.

A fixed-frequency motor is a constant power device: It will take more
current if the voltage is not sufficient, to create the power that is
needed by the attached equipment; it can't reduce its speed (other
than stall). So under moderate load, the motor will run at 2x the
current, meaning that the motor self-heating will be 4x larger than
usual. Unless you are super-careful, this can very very easily burn
up the windings, even if you power the motor down when it stalls.

A better idea is actually the following: The original poster said that
his garage is 90 feet from the house, and the power panel is at the
house, and he has only a 20A line connecting them. I suppose that the
20A line is 12-gauge, sufficient for 20A. At the house, install a
220V circuit, and connect the line to the garage to 220V. At the
garage, split the wiring up into 110V outlet/lighting circuits
(preferably two separate circuits), and a 220V circuit for the power
tools. Install a transformer that takes the 220V coming into the
garage, and splits it back up into two 110V circuits. This will not
be a small or dirt-cheap transformer, and there are difficult issues
with grounding, so this installation should be left to a professional.
This gives you two 20A 110V circuits (for example one each for lights
and for outlets), in addition to a 20A 220V circuit for larger power
tools - except that the total load is limited.

There is another idea, but I'm worried about bringing it up, as it can
be extremely dangerous if implemented wrong, and I fear it could never
be code compliant. If the original poster is lucky, the 20A line that
goes from the house to the garage has 3 wires in it: hot (black),
neutral (white), and ground (bare copper), all in an outer plastic
shield (like NM or UF wire). By using generous amounts of electrical
tape, one could relabel those wires to be two hot wires (black and
red, using the former black and white wire), and one neutral wire
(using the former bare copper ground wire). Now we have one 20A 220V,
or an Edison-circuit with two 20A 110V circuits with a shared neutral,
going to the garage. This circuit could then be used to feed a small
breaker panel in the garage, where it could be split up for example
into one 220V 20A circuit, and two 110V 20A circuits. In a nutshell
this is the same proposal as installing a new subpanel in the garage
and feeding it with a substantial line (for example 60A), except for
using a smallish line on a piece of cable that is not intended for
this usage. Small problem: The garage has no ground any more. This
can be cured by creating a "made ground", meaning a few ground rounds,
or (if available) a ufer in the foundation. Big problem: this is
completely in violation of the code; using the bare green wire for
neutral is code violating, and actually dangerous: the outer jacket of
the cable is not intended as an insulator, and if anyone who doesn't
know about this wire ever modifies the system in the future, death
becomes very likely.

Bottom line: I would just try running the tool on the 110V 20A
circuit; most likely it will work most of the time. And install a
battery-powered emergency light that comes on automatically if the
power fails (they are about $35 at the box stores); like this if the
jointer pops the breaker, the place doesn't go completely dark. And
don't forget to turn the tool off before resetting the breaker -
otherwise it will start up unattended when you turn power back on. A
magnetic starter might be a good investment here.

--
The address in the header is invalid for obvious reasons. Please
reconstruct the address from the information below (look for _).
Ralph Becker-Szendy

Actually, he is correct. While at the Home Depot, I checked it out. Only
GE offers this odd setup but they really do have single unit 2 pole
breakers. In order to use it however, it requires removing two standard
breakers ( if the panel is full) as it sits between where the two standard
ones fit. To fill in the gaps you will need to buy two half size breakers
but on the positive side, by doing that you will get your 220V circuit
WITHOUT losing any of your 110's and you get a spare full size breaker (in
case one fails, LOL) as well.

--
If at first you don't succeed, you're not cut out for skydiving


wrote in message
news:25fvf.37304$9G.16502@dukeread10...
TBone wrote:
I know what you are talking about at HD but IIRC, none of them support
220V
but I could be wrong. In order for that to happen, the double half
sized
breaker would need to come in contact with both poles and I am unaware
of
any box that would support that or how it could even be done unless the
box
has slots reserved for only that type of breaker. All of the double
single
slot breakers I've seen just give you two 110V circuits in the space of
1
but they are both on the same pole. I have to go to HD later and now
you
have me curious so I will head to the electrical department to check
that
out.

I think he's talking about a quad breaker. You can run four 110v, two
110v
and a 220v, or two 220v circuits off a two slot quad breaker.

In the case he is discussing, it is a half, two halves tied together for
a 220, and another half. The center two halves do take up a "single slot
space", the catch is you need to have a half above and below it because
it needs to span two poles.

"Many brands of breaker panels can accommodate half-sized double pole
breakers. " " was built in 1990, so they aren't THAT new"

We built our house almost 40 years ago and used some of these duplex
breakers then, they came from Sears, I think they are square D.

"the double half sized breaker would need to come in contact with both poles
"

Switch a couple of 110 circuits onto a duplex breaker, use the vacated space
for the 220v.

Walt Conner

"Toller" wrote in message
...

It took me 2 hours and maybe $40 in materials to run a 240v line 80' to my
TS.

Geez... Where do you buy your electrical materials??? 6 years ago I spent
$50 for 30' of cable and 2 electrical ends for 220 bolts.

You will love the 8 inch Yorkcraft, I have one and it is wonderful once
adjusted. Change over to 220 is very simple, instructions in the motor
"peckerhead". In fact, my motor came wired for 220.
Dave

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
"Steve" wrote in message
oups.com...

I'm considering a Yorkcraft 8" jointer that comes with a 2hp motor that
would draw 22 full load amps at 110 volts. However all I have to run
the jointer on is a 110v 20 amp circuit. I don't expect to use the
jointer frequently.

Am I out of luck?


If you don't run it frequently, you won't have to reset the breaker very
often. If you manage to get it running, it may go long enough to make a
pass on a short board.

BTW. 80% of the rating is considered a safe load,



That kind of depends on how they figured the hp.
Yorkcraft may uses real hp and the motor may then
actually draw 22A. My 5hp compressor has no
problems, but then the rating says 15 OA. Have no
idea what OA is but probably operating amperes,
which makes 5 hp a lie anyway. It runs on a 20A
circuit and has not problem running on a 15A circuit.

"Leon" wrote in message
. net...

"Toller" wrote in message
...

It took me 2 hours and maybe $40 in materials to run a 240v line 80' to
my TS.

Geez... Where do you buy your electrical materials??? 6 years ago I spent
$50 for 30' of cable and 2 electrical ends for 220 bolts.
Garage sales and auctions. I have bought 250' of cable for $5, and that is
not unusual.

Cant rewire to 220V?
half the amps if twice the voltage.

Doug

"Steve" wrote in message
oups.com...
I'm considering a Yorkcraft 8" jointer that comes with a 2hp motor that
would draw 22 full load amps at 110 volts. However all I have to run
the jointer on is a 110v 20 amp circuit. I don't expect to use the
jointer frequently.

Am I out of luck?

Steve

TBone wrote:
I know what you are talking about at HD but IIRC, none of them support 220V
but I could be wrong. In order for that to happen, the double half sized
breaker would need to come in contact with both poles and I am unaware of
any box that would support that or how it could even be done unless the box
has slots reserved for only that type of breaker.

My boxes have buss bars that run from one side to the other to provide
both poles on both sides of the box. I looked last night, they're GE.
The house is a very modest spec house built in 1990, so I'm sure the box
wasn't some expensive, custom order sort of thing.

Standard breakers can (and were, in my case) be inserted into the
half-space compatible slots, but only make contact with the buss bar
service that side of the panel.

Trust me, they exist. My DC, cabinet saw, jointer run off half space
breakers every day.

Barry

wrote:


I think he's talking about a quad breaker. You can run four 110v, two 110v
and a 220v, or two 220v circuits off a two slot quad breaker.

No, I'm not. G

It's a double-pole, SINGLE slot breaker. Similar units are available as
single pole, single slot, double breakers that provide two 115v circuits
in ONE slot.

Before others tell me what I really mean, I'll describe it section by
section:

The breaker:
- is ONE space wide
- has TWO hot wire terminals
- has both poles tied together so either hot leg will trip both
- feeds from BOTH sides of the panel, via buss bars integral to the panel
- is branded GE
- will only work in certain slots in the panel


I also have identical versions without the poles tied together.

Barry

TBone wrote:
Actually, he is correct. While at the Home Depot, I checked it out. Only
GE offers this odd setup but they really do have single unit 2 pole
breakers. In order to use it however, it requires removing two standard
breakers ( if the panel is full) as it sits between where the two standard
ones fit. To fill in the gaps you will need to buy two half size breakers
but on the positive side, by doing that you will get your 220V circuit
WITHOUT losing any of your 110's and you get a spare full size breaker (in
case one fails, LOL) as well.


Exactly!

I forgot about needing the 1/2 spacers, as it's been a while since I
installed additional shop circuits.

Barry

In article 1136498309.730807@smirk, wrote:


There is another idea, but I'm worried about bringing it up, as it can
be extremely dangerous if implemented wrong, and I fear it could never
be code compliant.

Then why bring it up? You're right, it is dangerous, and it does not meet
Code. So what's the point in suggesting it?

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

I have gotten away for years with 15 to 19 amp motors on 15 amp
breakers. usually the tool is ok starting up for a table saw or
jointer or such. I just could ot push the tool hard.
Knight-Toolworks
http://www.knight-toolworks.com
affordable handmade wooden planes

wrote:
In article .com,
wrote:
Rewire the motor for 220 volts, but leave it connected to 110.

I have a used table saw with a 1hp motor I have run for several years.
All OK, but seemed a little underpowered. Come to find out the motor
was set for 220 volts but I was running it on 110.

Low voltage (brown-out) doesn't hurt a motor unless the motor is
heavily loaded. Then it draws excessive current to try and make up for
the low voltage. At half the rated voltage, the motor will stall
before it can hurt itself. If it were left stalled, it may get hot,
but since you wouldn't leave it that way, no harm done.

DO NOT DO THIS, unless you can carefully monitor the temperature of
the motor, and preferably the current going into the motor (you have
to monitor the current, because you can't monitor the temperature of
the motor windings, and those can get hot very quickly, before the
outside of the motor becomes dangerously high). Or unless you have a
supply of free replacement motors, and enjoy exchanging them.

A fixed-frequency motor is a constant power device: It will take more
current if the voltage is not sufficient, to create the power that is
needed by the attached equipment; it can't reduce its speed (other
than stall). So under moderate load, the motor will run at 2x the
current, meaning that the motor self-heating will be 4x larger than
usual. Unless you are super-careful, this can very very easily burn
up the windings, even if you power the motor down when it stalls.

A better idea is actually the following: The original poster said that
his garage is 90 feet from the house, and the power panel is at the
house, and he has only a 20A line connecting them. I suppose that the
20A line is 12-gauge, sufficient for 20A. At the house, install a
220V circuit, and connect the line to the garage to 220V. At the
garage, split the wiring up into 110V outlet/lighting circuits
(preferably two separate circuits), and a 220V circuit for the power
tools. Install a transformer that takes the 220V coming into the
garage, and splits it back up into two 110V circuits. This will not
be a small or dirt-cheap transformer, and there are difficult issues
with grounding, so this installation should be left to a professional.
This gives you two 20A 110V circuits (for example one each for lights
and for outlets), in addition to a 20A 220V circuit for larger power
tools - except that the total load is limited.

There is another idea, but I'm worried about bringing it up, as it can
be extremely dangerous if implemented wrong, and I fear it could never
be code compliant. If the original poster is lucky, the 20A line that
goes from the house to the garage has 3 wires in it: hot (black),
neutral (white), and ground (bare copper), all in an outer plastic
shield (like NM or UF wire). By using generous amounts of electrical
tape, one could relabel those wires to be two hot wires (black and
red, using the former black and white wire), and one neutral wire
(using the former bare copper ground wire). Now we have one 20A 220V,
or an Edison-circuit with two 20A 110V circuits with a shared neutral,
going to the garage. This circuit could then be used to feed a small
breaker panel in the garage, where it could be split up for example
into one 220V 20A circuit, and two 110V 20A circuits. In a nutshell
this is the same proposal as installing a new subpanel in the garage
and feeding it with a substantial line (for example 60A), except for
using a smallish line on a piece of cable that is not intended for
this usage. Small problem: The garage has no ground any more. This
can be cured by creating a "made ground", meaning a few ground rounds,
or (if available) a ufer in the foundation. Big problem: this is
completely in violation of the code; using the bare green wire for
neutral is code violating, and actually dangerous: the outer jacket of
the cable is not intended as an insulator, and if anyone who doesn't
know about this wire ever modifies the system in the future, death
becomes very likely.

Bottom line: I would just try running the tool on the 110V 20A
circuit; most likely it will work most of the time. And install a
battery-powered emergency light that comes on automatically if the
power fails (they are about $35 at the box stores); like this if the
jointer pops the breaker, the place doesn't go completely dark. And
don't forget to turn the tool off before resetting the breaker -
otherwise it will start up unattended when you turn power back on. A
magnetic starter might be a good investment here.

--
The address in the header is invalid for obvious reasons. Please
reconstruct the address from the information below (look for _).
Ralph Becker-Szendy

To a large extent what you say is correct. However, if you lower the
voltage enough, the motor could never hurt itself even if stalled since
it is not a PERFECT constant power device. Second, since the breaker
is limiting the current to 20 amps, which would be harder on the motor
- pulling 20 amps at 220 volts or 20 amps at 110 volts? (Acually, close
to the same since most of the heating is due to winding resistance,
thus equal current gives equal heating.)

In the case of the saw I mentioned, when it was wired for 220 volts,
the lights hardly flickered when I started the saw and when nearly
stalled, barely dimmed the lights. Now, wired for 110 volts, the room
nearly goes dark when the saw is started and I never get close to
stalling the motor under reasonably heavy load. This indicates to me
that when wired for 220 volts and run on a 110 volt circuit, the motor
CAN'T draw rated current, so can't hurt itself. After slogging through
some long, heary rips, the motor wasn't more than warm to the touch
when wired for 220.

However, if the OP can keep from blowing breakers, leave it at 110. If
not, try the 220/110 approach and see if the power is adequate.

If it is just a matter of starting current, one could rig up a series
resistance of some sort, like a 1500 watt heater, that was only in for
starting and then a switch bypassed it once the motor was up to speed.
A bit of a nusance, though.

wrote:
On Fri, 06 Jan 2006 02:29:23 GMT, "George E. Cawthon"
wrote:


My 5hp compressor has no
problems, but then the rating says 15 OA. Have no
idea what OA is but probably operating amperes,
which makes 5 hp a lie anyway



Campbell Hausfeld ended up paying a huge class action suit for that. I
got a free air nibbler out of the deal.

Right, I read about it sometime in the spring,
withe the list of things you could get. Decided
to wait a big and remember it about 6 days after
the closing. Oh. well, I really didn't want
anything they offered. Essentially all of the
award went to the lawyers which is the case with
all class action suits, actually it is the reason
for class action suits.

I'm considering a Yorkcraft 8" jointer that comes with a 2hp motor that
would draw 22 full load amps at 110 volts. However all I have to run
the jointer on is a 110v 20 amp circuit. I don't expect to use the
jointer frequently.

Am I out of luck?

Steve

I have a 2hp motor that is rated to draw 18A on startup, 15A running. I run
it all the time on a 15A circuit. It was a bit stiff when it was brand new
and a couple of times in the first few days it drew too much for too long on
startup and blew the fuse. (Yes, it was a fuse.) I replaced it with a
breaker rather than a slow-blow fuse and I think it tripped maybe once more.
I have since moved to a new house with a 15A circuit again, and never
tripped the breaker even once.

Just thought I'd mention it, since you're definitely being encouraged to
give it a try as is. Don't be discouraged if there are a couple of hiccups
at the beginning. You can work it out.

- Owen -