I hone my blades per the instructions that came with the 54a jointer,
which means holding a sharpening stone over the blades and firing up the
jointer (using precautions as listed in the manual). I like to do that
because I'm not perfect at getting 3 blades precisely set to the same
gnat's ass height. Once I think I'm within 2 or 3 thou, I let the stone
do the "rest".


Dave

David wrote:
I hone my blades per the instructions that came with the 54a jointer,
which means holding a sharpening stone over the blades and firing up the
jointer (using precautions as listed in the manual). I like to do that
because I'm not perfect at getting 3 blades precisely set to the same
gnat's ass height. Once I think I'm within 2 or 3 thou, I let the stone
do the "rest".

Seems to me that this would somewhat negate the whole point of putting a
specific bevel angle on the blade, if you're just going to grind it off
again after remounting the blades.

Chris

Chris Friesen wrote:

David wrote:

I hone my blades per the instructions that came with the 54a jointer,
which means holding a sharpening stone over the blades and firing up
the jointer (using precautions as listed in the manual). I like to do
that because I'm not perfect at getting 3 blades precisely set to the
same gnat's ass height. Once I think I'm within 2 or 3 thou, I let the
stone do the "rest".


Seems to me that this would somewhat negate the whole point of putting a
specific bevel angle on the blade, if you're just going to grind it off
again after remounting the blades.

Chris
seems to me the mfgr, who supplied the replacement blades, doesn't see a
problem, Chris. the process is "honing". it's very subtle.

Dave

David wrote:
I hone my blades per the instructions that came with the 54a jointer,
which means holding a sharpening stone over the blades and firing up the
jointer (using precautions as listed in the manual). I like to do that
because I'm not perfect at getting 3 blades precisely set to the same
gnat's ass height. Once I think I'm within 2 or 3 thou, I let the stone
do the "rest".


Dave

I took a look at the 54A manual that's on-line at Powermatic's web site
and it states:

-----------------------------------------------

1. Disconnect the machine from the power
source.

2. Remove the blade guard and belt cover.

3. To protect the infeed table from scratches,
partially cover the sharpening stone with
paper (Figure 47).

4. Lay the stone on the infeed table.

5. Lower the infeed table and turn the
cutterhead by turning the cutterhead pulley.
The infeed table height is set properly when
the stone's surface is flush with the knife
bevel.

6. Keep the cutterhead from rotating by
grasping the cutterhead pulley while sliding -------
the stone back and forth across the table.

7. Take the same amount of passes for all
three blades."

------------------------------------------------

Nowhere that I can find does it mention honing the blades with the
jointer running.

The manual can be found at:

http://www.wmhtoolgroup.com/partfiles/m_1791279DX.pdf

--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA

(Remove -SPAM- to send email)

no(SPAM)vasys wrote:

David wrote:

I hone my blades per the instructions that came with the 54a jointer,
which means holding a sharpening stone over the blades and firing up
the jointer (using precautions as listed in the manual). I like to do
that because I'm not perfect at getting 3 blades precisely set to the
same gnat's ass height. Once I think I'm within 2 or 3 thou, I let the
stone do the "rest".


Dave


I took a look at the 54A manual that's on-line at Powermatic's web site
and it states:

-----------------------------------------------

1. Disconnect the machine from the power
source.

2. Remove the blade guard and belt cover.

3. To protect the infeed table from scratches,
partially cover the sharpening stone with
paper (Figure 47).

4. Lay the stone on the infeed table.

5. Lower the infeed table and turn the
cutterhead by turning the cutterhead pulley.
The infeed table height is set properly when
the stone's surface is flush with the knife
bevel.

6. Keep the cutterhead from rotating by
grasping the cutterhead pulley while sliding -------
the stone back and forth across the table.

7. Take the same amount of passes for all
three blades."

------------------------------------------------

Nowhere that I can find does it mention honing the blades with the
jointer running.

The manual can be found at:

http://www.wmhtoolgroup.com/partfiles/m_1791279DX.pdf

THEY CHANGED THE INSTRUCTIONS!! I'VE GOT THE MANUAL IN FRONT OF ME AND
IT STATES ON PAGE 14, STEP NUMBER 4, TURN THE MACHINE ON.

there is a picture showing a block of wood held by a clamp.

SO THERE!!!

Nice try, and thanks for playing

i can scan the entire page and put it on the binaries if you'd like!

Dave

no(SPAM)vasys wrote:

David wrote:

I hone my blades per the instructions that came with the 54a jointer,
which means holding a sharpening stone over the blades and firing up
the jointer (using precautions as listed in the manual). I like to do
that because I'm not perfect at getting 3 blades precisely set to the
same gnat's ass height. Once I think I'm within 2 or 3 thou, I let the
stone do the "rest".


Dave


I took a look at the 54A manual that's on-line at Powermatic's web site
and it states:

-----------------------------------------------

1. Disconnect the machine from the power
source.

2. Remove the blade guard and belt cover.

3. To protect the infeed table from scratches,
partially cover the sharpening stone with
paper (Figure 47).

4. Lay the stone on the infeed table.

5. Lower the infeed table and turn the
cutterhead by turning the cutterhead pulley.
The infeed table height is set properly when
the stone's surface is flush with the knife
bevel.

6. Keep the cutterhead from rotating by
grasping the cutterhead pulley while sliding -------
the stone back and forth across the table.

7. Take the same amount of passes for all
three blades."

------------------------------------------------

Nowhere that I can find does it mention honing the blades with the
jointer running.

The manual can be found at:

http://www.wmhtoolgroup.com/partfiles/m_1791279DX.pdf

that date of my manual is 06/01

some idiot probably hurt himself, so they changed the instructions.

they work for me...

Dave

David wrote:

no(SPAM)vasys wrote:

6. Keep the cutterhead from rotating by
grasping the cutterhead pulley while sliding -------
the stone back and forth across the table.

7. Take the same amount of passes for all
three blades."

------------------------------------------------

Nowhere that I can find does it mention honing the blades with the
jointer running.

The manual can be found at:

http://www.wmhtoolgroup.com/partfiles/m_1791279DX.pdf

that date of my manual is 06/01

some idiot probably hurt himself, so they changed the instructions.

they work for me...

Dave

I agree.

The fact that Powermatic changed the manual might be a hint.

--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA

(Remove -SPAM- to send email)

no(SPAM)vasys wrote:



I agree.

The fact that Powermatic changed the manual might be a hint.

I posted the page on the binaries. check it out!

dave

David wrote:
no(SPAM)vasys wrote:



I agree.

The fact that Powermatic changed the manual might be a hint.

I posted the page on the binaries. check it out!

dave

Dave, they method you describe is what we did at a tech college in the
1960-1970s era. There was a specific jig to hold the stone although I
have seen it done just holding the stone freehand on the outfeed table.


There are safety concerns in doing this, for us it was done at least
weekly by the same person.

The new instruction mentioned in other posts suggest that somebody had
a nasty accident.

Dave, my 54A's manual says the same thing. It's scary, no? Plus you've
got to be sure your stone is flat.If you're diligent about knife
setting, the "honing" isn't necessary. Besides, it scratches up the
outfeed table. You wouldn't live in the Bay Area by any chance, would
you? Tom

tom wrote:

Dave, my 54A's manual says the same thing. It's scary, no? Plus you've
got to be sure your stone is flat.If you're diligent about knife
setting, the "honing" isn't necessary. Besides, it scratches up the
outfeed table. You wouldn't live in the Bay Area by any chance, would
you? Tom


Tom,

the first time I tried it, I had sweaty palms!

The second time I honed, I was more calm about the whole thing.

Yeah, San Jose. (The land of way overpriced lumber)

I wanted to ask DMT if their stones were up for this sort of thing, but
they never got back to me. I'd expect that wouldn't be a good idea (for
the DMT stone, that is).

Dave

"David" wrote in message
...
no(SPAM)vasys wrote:

David wrote:

I hone my blades per the instructions that came with the 54a jointer,
which means holding a sharpening stone over the blades and firing up
the jointer (using precautions as listed in the manual). I like to do
that because I'm not perfect at getting 3 blades precisely set to the
same gnat's ass height. Once I think I'm within 2 or 3 thou, I let the
stone do the "rest".


Dave


I took a look at the 54A manual that's on-line at Powermatic's web site
and it states:

-----------------------------------------------

1. Disconnect the machine from the power
source.

2. Remove the blade guard and belt cover.

3. To protect the infeed table from scratches,
partially cover the sharpening stone with
paper (Figure 47).

4. Lay the stone on the infeed table.

5. Lower the infeed table and turn the
cutterhead by turning the cutterhead pulley.
The infeed table height is set properly when
the stone's surface is flush with the knife
bevel.

6. Keep the cutterhead from rotating by
grasping the cutterhead pulley while sliding -------
the stone back and forth across the table.

7. Take the same amount of passes for all
three blades."

------------------------------------------------

Nowhere that I can find does it mention honing the blades with the
jointer running.

The manual can be found at:

http://www.wmhtoolgroup.com/partfiles/m_1791279DX.pdf

THEY CHANGED THE INSTRUCTIONS!! I'VE GOT THE MANUAL IN FRONT OF ME AND
IT STATES ON PAGE 14, STEP NUMBER 4, TURN THE MACHINE ON.

there is a picture showing a block of wood held by a clamp.

SO THERE!!!

Nice try, and thanks for playing

i can scan the entire page and put it on the binaries if you'd like!

Dave

He is back only a matter of time I guess. Relax

joey wrote:


. Relax


Joey, I'm relaxed. Perhaps a smiley would have helped convey the tone
better!!

Dave

"David" wrote in message
...
joey wrote:


. Relax


Joey, I'm relaxed. Perhaps a smiley would have helped convey the tone
better!!

Dave
Dude lose the caps
BTW my 54A instructions had the same stoning recommendation I decided it
was not a proceedure for me. I have resharpened my blades once and reset
with a dial indicator to bout 1-2 thou. The faced and jointed results are
excellant. Results rule
Joey

joey wrote:

"David" wrote in message
...

joey wrote:



. Relax



Joey, I'm relaxed. Perhaps a smiley would have helped convey the tone
better!!

Dave

Dude lose the caps
BTW my 54A instructions had the same stoning recommendation I decided it
was not a proceedure for me. I have resharpened my blades once and reset
with a dial indicator to bout 1-2 thou. The faced and jointed results are
excellant. Results rule
Joey


actually, the procedure produces excellent results. perfectly aligned
blades and SHARP (I couldn't end this w/o some CAPS for you)

Dave

"David" wrote in message
...
tom wrote:

Dave, my 54A's manual says the same thing. It's scary, no? Plus you've
got to be sure your stone is flat.If you're diligent about knife
setting, the "honing" isn't necessary. Besides, it scratches up the
outfeed table. You wouldn't live in the Bay Area by any chance, would
you? Tom


Tom,

the first time I tried it, I had sweaty palms!

The second time I honed, I was more calm about the whole thing.

Yeah, San Jose. (The land of way overpriced lumber)

I wanted to ask DMT if their stones were up for this sort of thing, but
they never got back to me. I'd expect that wouldn't be a good idea (for
the DMT stone, that is).

Dave

I agree with Chris ,so what is the point of the bevel on the blades. The
more this procedure is performed the more screwed up the blade geometry
becomes .......mjh

On 2 Nov 2005 17:03:59 -0800, "tom" wrote:

Dave, my 54A's manual says the same thing. It's scary, no? Plus you've
got to be sure your stone is flat.If you're diligent about knife
setting, the "honing" isn't necessary. Besides, it scratches up the
outfeed table. You wouldn't live in the Bay Area by any chance, would
you? Tom

scratches up the outfeed table.

I think there was some reference to using paper to protect the table;
I wonder how well that really works. I'd also be concerned about
getting all the grit and filings inside the works of the jointer.

Jim Weisgram wrote:

On 2 Nov 2005 17:03:59 -0800, "tom" wrote:


Dave, my 54A's manual says the same thing. It's scary, no? Plus you've
got to be sure your stone is flat.If you're diligent about knife
setting, the "honing" isn't necessary. Besides, it scratches up the
outfeed table. You wouldn't live in the Bay Area by any chance, would
you? Tom


scratches up the outfeed table.


I think there was some reference to using paper to protect the table;
I wonder how well that really works. I'd also be concerned about
getting all the grit and filings inside the works of the jointer.
You worry too much!

dave

FWIW,

http://woodworker.com/cgi-bin/FULLPR...PARTNUM=95-420

I used one of these theother day to touch up the knives that have been in
use on my 8" jointer for the past 6 months and it made a very noticable
improvement. I will make a point this thing on a faily regular basis.


"David" wrote in message
. ..
I hone my blades per the instructions that came with the 54a jointer,
which means holding a sharpening stone over the blades and firing up the
jointer (using precautions as listed in the manual). I like to do that
because I'm not perfect at getting 3 blades precisely set to the same
gnat's ass height. Once I think I'm within 2 or 3 thou, I let the stone
do the "rest".


Dave

On Wed, 02 Nov 2005 15:53:35 -0800, David wrote:

the process is "honing". it's very subtle.

It's also at completely the wrong angle.

Bad idea. Don't do it.

Andy Dingley wrote:

On Wed, 02 Nov 2005 15:53:35 -0800, David wrote:


the process is "honing". it's very subtle.


It's also at completely the wrong angle.

Bad idea. Don't do it.
I'll put the cutting quality of my jointer up against anything in it's
class, so I DON'T think honing is a "bad" idea, as you suggested.

Dave

David wrote:

Andy Dingley wrote:

On Wed, 02 Nov 2005 15:53:35 -0800, David wrote:


the process is "honing". it's very subtle.



It's also at completely the wrong angle.

Bad idea. Don't do it.

I'll put the cutting quality of my jointer up against anything in it's
class, so I DON'T think honing is a "bad" idea, as you suggested.

Dave
in other words, THE PROOF IS IN THE PUDDING. I get smoothly milled wood
off my jointer, each and every time I run wood over it.

Dave

True.

"mike hide" wrote in message
I agree with Chris ,so what is the point of the bevel on the blades. The
more this procedure is performed the more screwed up the blade geometry
becomes .......mjh

True.


"Chris Friesen" wrote in message
...

Seems to me that this would somewhat negate the whole point of putting a
specific bevel angle on the blade, if you're just going to grind it off
again after remounting the blades.

Chris

Yes, a subtle dulling.

"David" wrote in message
...
. the process is "honing". it's very subtle.

CW wrote:

Yes, a subtle dulling.

"David" wrote in message
...

. the process is "honing". it's very subtle.





only when done by the inept.

Dave

Only when done by anyone.

"David" wrote in message
...
CW wrote:

Yes, a subtle dulling.

"David" wrote in message
...

. the process is "honing". it's very subtle.





only when done by the inept.

Dave

On Fri, 04 Nov 2005 05:29:32 GMT, "CW" wrote:

Only when done by anyone.

"David" wrote in message
...
CW wrote:

Yes, a subtle dulling.

"David" wrote in message
...

. the process is "honing". it's very subtle.





only when done by the inept.

Dave



CW... ya oughta know better than to get in a titfertat with bay area
davie...


but the procedure of spinning the blades against a stone isn't totally
bunk. I'd never do it to a woodworking machine, but there are some
setups where it really is the right thing to do.

it's basically a fine adjustment that does the same thing as the first
bit of use of the machine- it dulls the blades a little bit, producing
a microbevel (a tiny one only) with 0 relief angle. the edge produced
is not as sharp as it was before this, but it will last longer.

done even slightly wrong it will do serious damage to your blades,
your jointer and likely your body as well.

don't try it at home, folks.

s said:

CW... ya oughta know better than to get in a titfertat with bay area
davie...

I thought so... Hey, Dave. ;-)

it's basically a fine adjustment that does the same thing as the first
bit of use of the machine- it dulls the blades a little bit, producing
a microbevel (a tiny one only) with 0 relief angle. the edge produced
is not as sharp as it was before this, but it will last longer.

This is the conclusion I came to as well. The physics of the process
just didn't add up to being the correct angle for 'honing'.

done even slightly wrong it will do serious damage to your blades,
your jointer and likely your body as well.

This, I am certain of.

don't try it at home, folks.

Since you seem to be fairly well versed in this area, how about hand
honing the installed blades with a diamond paddle for a few strokes,
maintaining the original angles of the bevel - minus a degree. This
is what I have been doing to sweeten the edges before cutting
something difficult. Easy to rest the paddle hand on the outfeed
table and hold the cutter head at the proper angle with the other.

I know the stroke direction isn't optimal, but it sure seems to work.


Greg G.

On Fri, 04 Nov 2005 02:22:33 -0500, Greg wrote:

how about hand
honing the installed blades with a diamond paddle for a few strokes,
maintaining the original angles of the bevel - minus a degree. This
is what I have been doing to sweeten the edges before cutting
something difficult. Easy to rest the paddle hand on the outfeed
table and hold the cutter head at the proper angle with the other.

I know the stroke direction isn't optimal, but it sure seems to work.


Greg G.

the disadvantage of this is that the only thing keeping the grind
consistent is stroke count and your subjective "feel" of how hard
you're leaning into it. if you're careful you can do OK, but after a
short few times you'd better pull the blades, sharpen properly and
reset them.

s said:

On Fri, 04 Nov 2005 02:22:33 -0500, Greg wrote:

how about hand
honing the installed blades with a diamond paddle for a few strokes,
maintaining the original angles of the bevel - minus a degree. This
is what I have been doing to sweeten the edges before cutting
something difficult. Easy to rest the paddle hand on the outfeed
table and hold the cutter head at the proper angle with the other.

I know the stroke direction isn't optimal, but it sure seems to work.


Greg G.

the disadvantage of this is that the only thing keeping the grind
consistent is stroke count and your subjective "feel" of how hard
you're leaning into it. if you're careful you can do OK, but after a
short few times you'd better pull the blades, sharpen properly and
reset them.

Yup, that's what I do. That's why I said sweeten, not hone or
sharpen... I left out the other parts for brevity - imagine that...

Thanks,

Greg G.

CW wrote:

Only when done by anyone.

"David" wrote in message
...

CW wrote:


Yes, a subtle dulling.

"David" wrote in message
...


. the process is "honing". it's very subtle.





only when done by the inept.

Dave



funny, but untrue.

They pass the "nick fingernail" test and they cut wood (oak and maple)
superbly.

Just because YOU can't hone jointer blades correctly doesn't mean others
can't.

Dave

s wrote:

On Fri, 04 Nov 2005 05:29:32 GMT, "CW" wrote:


Only when done by anyone.

"David" wrote in message
...

CW wrote:


Yes, a subtle dulling.

"David" wrote in message
...


. the process is "honing". it's very subtle.





only when done by the inept.

Dave



CW... ya oughta know better than to get in a titfertat with bay area
davie...


but the procedure of spinning the blades against a stone isn't totally
bunk. I'd never do it to a woodworking machine, but there are some
setups where it really is the right thing to do.

it's basically a fine adjustment that does the same thing as the first
bit of use of the machine- it dulls the blades a little bit, producing
a microbevel (a tiny one only) with 0 relief angle. the edge produced
is not as sharp as it was before this, but it will last longer.

done even slightly wrong it will do serious damage to your blades,
your jointer and likely your body as well.

don't try it at home, folks.
The main "trick" is to be sure that the cut is VERY, VERY light.

Dave

So it dulls it as little as posible.

"David" wrote in message
...
s wrote:
The main "trick" is to be sure that the cut is VERY, VERY light.

Dave

On Thu, 03 Nov 2005 14:30:21 -0800, David wrote:

It's also at completely the wrong angle.

I'll put the cutting quality of my jointer up against anything in it's
class, so I DON'T think honing is a "bad" idea, as you suggested.

You'll no doubt also be interested in a tub of my Patent Anti-Elephant
Omnibus Discouragement Dust. I sprinkle it out of the windows every time
I travel by bus and have yet to be plagued by elephants. It obviously
works perfectly.


I hone my jointer blades on the machine, with a diamond hone. But I do
it with the machine very much off, and I use the correct angle for the
blades, not a tangent.

Andy Dingley wrote:

On Thu, 03 Nov 2005 14:30:21 -0800, David wrote:


It's also at completely the wrong angle.


I'll put the cutting quality of my jointer up against anything in it's
class, so I DON'T think honing is a "bad" idea, as you suggested.


You'll no doubt also be interested in a tub of my Patent Anti-Elephant
Omnibus Discouragement Dust. I sprinkle it out of the windows every time
I travel by bus and have yet to be plagued by elephants. It obviously
works perfectly.


I hone my jointer blades on the machine, with a diamond hone. But I do
it with the machine very much off, and I use the correct angle for the
blades, not a tangent.
tangential, when applied to a .002-.004 distance, does not affect the
quality of the edge, my friend, your preconceptions notwithstanding.

Dave

David wrote:
Andy Dingley wrote:

On Thu, 03 Nov 2005 14:30:21 -0800, David wrote:


It's also at completely the wrong angle.



I'll put the cutting quality of my jointer up against anything in
it's class, so I DON'T think honing is a "bad" idea, as you suggested.



You'll no doubt also be interested in a tub of my Patent Anti-Elephant
Omnibus Discouragement Dust. I sprinkle it out of the windows every time
I travel by bus and have yet to be plagued by elephants. It obviously
works perfectly.


I hone my jointer blades on the machine, with a diamond hone. But I do
it with the machine very much off, and I use the correct angle for the
blades, not a tangent.

tangential, when applied to a .002-.004 distance, does not affect the
quality of the edge, my friend, your preconceptions notwithstanding.

Dave

Not picking sides or anything here, just truly curious. Wouldn't what Dave
is talking about doing result in pretty much the same thing as micro bevel?

-John in NH

Sure does. Take your Stanley #5, extend the blade about .002", run it
accross a stone. Now, take that plane to a piece of wood. How well does it
cut?

"David" wrote in message
...
tangential, when applied to a .002-.004 distance, does not affect the
quality of the edge, my friend, your preconceptions notwithstanding.

Dave

No, a micro bevel is just a steeper bevel. It still provides clearence. The
jointer method being discussed provides zero clearence.

"John Girouard" wrote in message
...
Not picking sides or anything here, just truly curious. Wouldn't what Dave
is talking about doing result in pretty much the same thing as micro
bevel?

-John in NH

"David" wrote in message
...
Andy Dingley wrote:

On Thu, 03 Nov 2005 14:30:21 -0800, David wrote:


It's also at completely the wrong angle.


I'll put the cutting quality of my jointer up against anything in it's
class, so I DON'T think honing is a "bad" idea, as you suggested.


You'll no doubt also be interested in a tub of my Patent Anti-Elephant
Omnibus Discouragement Dust. I sprinkle it out of the windows every time
I travel by bus and have yet to be plagued by elephants. It obviously
works perfectly.


I hone my jointer blades on the machine, with a diamond hone. But I do
it with the machine very much off, and I use the correct angle for the
blades, not a tangent.
tangential, when applied to a .002-.004 distance, does not affect the
quality of the edge, my friend, your preconceptions notwithstanding.

Dave

A joiner with that kind of geometry is called a burnisher .....mjh