I am looking for a source from which to purchase bulk wood hexagons cut
from 3/4-inch MDF that are 3.5 inches across (which I think means that
each side must be one (1) inch. I need these parts to be extremely
precise so I cannot just take my jigsaw and cut them by hand. I think
I remember reading somewhere that there is a tool/accessory that some
woodworkers have that allows them to cut exact duplicate shapes from
4X8 sheets??

What should I ask potential suppliers that will allow me to pick the
supplier that can produce the most precise pieces at the lowest cost??

I am in Des Moines and think that a local supplier would be best (if I
can find one) due to shipping costs but am open to other nearby areas
if I cannot find someone local.

Thanks for your help.

(in
) said:

| I am looking for a source from which to purchase bulk wood hexagons
| cut from 3/4-inch MDF that are 3.5 inches across (which I think
| means that each side must be one (1) inch. I need these parts to
| be extremely precise so I cannot just take my jigsaw and cut them
| by hand. I think I remember reading somewhere that there is a
| tool/accessory that some woodworkers have that allows them to cut
| exact duplicate shapes from 4X8 sheets??

How precise?

| What should I ask potential suppliers that will allow me to pick the
| supplier that can produce the most precise pieces at the lowest
| cost??

How much?

| I am in Des Moines and think that a local supplier would be best
| (if I can find one) due to shipping costs but am open to other
| nearby areas if I cannot find someone local.

Is I-80 exit 110 (DeSoto) 16 miles west of Des Moine sufficiently
local? If so, you're invited to stop by.

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/

On 4 Jul 2005 21:47:27 -0700, wrote:

I am looking for a source from which to purchase bulk wood hexagons cut
from 3/4-inch MDF that are 3.5 inches across (which I think means that
each side must be one (1) inch. I need these parts to be extremely
precise so I cannot just take my jigsaw and cut them by hand.

This is likely another troll. However, I'll bite:

1. Precision is a measure. HOW precise?
2. No woodworking tool can cut *exact* measurements, especially by
repetition. Also, MDF is essentially a paper product, so you will get
"tear" even if you have to use a microscope to see it; far moreso than
with a machined metal surface.
3. Again, precision is relative. You can be out 1/4" if measuring
over a mile, but would want much less absolute error in such small
pieces.
4. What purpose? It would help in order to suggest possible
variations.

P.S. Don't use "wood" and "MDF" in the same sentence.

Back to the "purpose": Since you do not know the measure of the
"side" [edge], what purpose is it needed for with such "precision"?
Assuming that you mean distance from edge to opposite edge, and not
diagonal, the distance across one edge would be 2 3/16", not 1".

What are you willing to pay for these pieces?


wrote in message
oups.com...
I am looking for a source from which to purchase bulk wood hexagons cut
from 3/4-inch MDF that are 3.5 inches across (which I think means that
each side must be one (1) inch. I need these parts to be extremely
precise so I cannot just take my jigsaw and cut them by hand. I think
I remember reading somewhere that there is a tool/accessory that some
woodworkers have that allows them to cut exact duplicate shapes from
4X8 sheets??

What should I ask potential suppliers that will allow me to pick the
supplier that can produce the most precise pieces at the lowest cost??

I am in Des Moines and think that a local supplier would be best (if I
can find one) due to shipping costs but am open to other nearby areas
if I cannot find someone local.

Thanks for your help.

"Guess who" wrote in message
...
Snip


Back to the "purpose": Since you do not know the measure of the
"side" [edge], what purpose is it needed for with such "precision"?
Assuming that you mean distance from edge to opposite edge, and not
diagonal, the distance across one edge would be 2 3/16", not 1".

Actually I am getting two possible measurements for the length of each of
the 6 sides.
If the hexagon has to fit inside of a 3.5" diameter circle the sides will
each be 1.75" long.
If the hexagon has to fit outside of a 3.5" diameter circle the sides will
each be 2" long.

On Tue, 05 Jul 2005 14:46:21 GMT, "Leon"
wrote:

Back to the "purpose": Since you do not know the measure of the
"side" [edge], what purpose is it needed for with such "precision"?
Assuming that you mean distance from edge to opposite edge, and not
diagonal, the distance across one edge would be 2 3/16", not 1".

Actually I am getting two possible measurements for the length of each of
the 6 sides.
If the hexagon has to fit inside of a 3.5" diameter circle the sides will
each be 1.75" long.
If the hexagon has to fit outside of a 3.5" diameter circle the sides will
each be 2" long.

That's why I said, "Assuming that you mean distance from edge to
opposite edge", rather than "diagonal."

"Guess who" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 05 Jul 2005 14:46:21 GMT, "Leon"
wrote:



That's why I said, "Assuming that you mean distance from edge to
opposite edge", rather than "diagonal."

The measurement could be determined in two ways.
If the hexagon has to fit inside of a 3.5" diameter circle the widest part
of the hexagon would be measured from opposite points at the end of opposite
sides. That distance being 3.5" and a result of the 6 sides each being
1.75" long.
If the hexagon has to fit outside of a 3.5" circle the narrowest part of the
hexagon would be the 3.5" measurement between opposite sides and would
result in the 6 sides being 2" long.

None the less, I an buffaloed as to how you came up with your numbers.
Which edge are you talking about. My 2 answers came from measuring the
length of each resulting side whether the hexagon fits inside or outside of
a 3.5" diameter circle. I am genuinely interested in how you are picturing
the measurement to come up with a side being 2-3/16".

Newsgroups: rec.woodworking
From: "Morris Dovey" - Find messages by this author

Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2005 03:19:50 -0500
Local: Tues,Jul 5 2005 4:19 am
Subject: How to find a local supplier for wooden hexagons

(in
ps.com) said:

| I am looking for a source from which to purchase bulk wood hexagons
| cut from 3/4-inch MDF that are 3.5 inches across (which I think
| means that each side must be one (1) inch. I need these parts to
| be extremely precise so I cannot just take my jigsaw and cut them
| by hand. I think I remember reading somewhere that there is a
| tool/accessory that some woodworkers have that allows them to cut
| exact duplicate shapes from 4X8 sheets ??

How precise?
Seamless?? 1/32. Each piece is going to be painted and then 34 pieces
will be put together to form a whole picture. Kinda like a jigsaw
puzzle excpet not exactly as the pieces will not interlock. So they
must fit together seamlessly.

| What should I ask potential suppliers that will allow me to pick the
| supplier that can produce the most precise pieces at the lowest
| cost ??

How much?
Well, yes. I actually got that one myself. What else should I
ask??

| I am in Des Moines and think that a local supplier would be best
| (if I can find one) due to shipping costs but am open to other
| nearby areas if I cannot find someone local .

Is I-80 exit 110 (DeSoto) 16 miles west of Des Moine sufficiently
local? If so, you're invited to stop by.
Absolutely. Anywhere within an hour's drive is definitely in the zone.

As little as possible. Not sure yet what the appropriate range should
be.

This is likely another troll. However, I'll bite:
No. I am not a troll. I really am looking to find a place to purchase these hexagons.

1. Precision is a measure. HOW precise?
Short answer is that I am not positive exactly how precise I need. Maybe 1/32. Each piece is going to be painted and then 34 pieces will be put together to form a whole picture. Kinda like a jigsaw puzzle excpet not exactly as the pieces will not interlock. So they must fit together seamlessly.

2. No woodworking tool can cut *exact* measurements, especially by
repetition. Also, MDF is essentially a paper product, so you will get
"tear" even if you have to use a microscope to see it; far moreso than
with a machined metal surface.
Understood. But aren't there some machines/tools that use a template to make shapes from 4X8 sheets with extremely small variance? I am almost sure I remember somebody telling me about a tool that did this (the name or brand may begin with a "C"?). I should have been more clear about "precise". I definitely do NOT need microscopic tolerance.

3. Again, precision is relative. You can be out 1/4" if measuring
over a mile, but would want much less absolute error in such small
pieces.

4. What purpose? It would help in order to suggest possible
variations.
See #1 above.


P.S. Don't use "wood" and "MDF" in the same sentence.
Sorry. No disrespect intended. Would love to have two 4X8 sheets worth of cherry or mahagony, but I cannot afford that.

Back to the "purpose": Since you do not know the measure of the
"side" [edge], what purpose is it needed for with such "precision"?
Assuming that you mean distance from edge to opposite edge, and not
diagonal, the distance across one edge would be 2 3/16", not 1".
OK. I had my measurements wrong. I have some flexibility on size. It is important that each piece be "exactly" the same and a bit less important whether the edge is 1, 1.75 or 2. After re-thinking, I probably need each edge to be 2 inches.

I might be interested as I do this type of small part production and
shipping type work.


"Roamdog" wrote in message
oups.com...
As little as possible. Not sure yet what the appropriate range should
be.

Roamdog (in )
said:

|| How precise?
| Seamless?? 1/32. Each piece is going to be painted and then 34
| pieces will be put together to form a whole picture. Kinda like a
| jigsaw puzzle excpet not exactly as the pieces will not interlock.
| So they must fit together seamlessly.

Duck soup. I have a CNC router that can cut hexagons from a full sheet
at a time. With a 1/8" bit there'll be minimal waste but maximum
cutting time (~100 pieces/hr). A larger bit will provide smoother cuts
and reduced cutting time (~200-350 pieces/hour), but more waste. It's
less expensive to have a wider kerf because MDF costs less than either
machine or human time.

FWIW, 1/32" off won't exactly look "seamless". Will you want a "frame"
for the picture? How about a shipping/storage box?

|| What should I ask potential suppliers that will allow me to pick
|| the supplier that can produce the most precise pieces at the lowest
|| cost ??
|
|| How much?
| Well, yes. I actually got that one myself. What else should I
| ask??

You'll need to clearly specify what you want, how many you want, and
when you want the parts. These factors will influence price. Schedule
a visit to the shop and allow time to discuss what you're doing. Ask
to see a sample of similar work. Ask about lead times and volume
pricing (if applicable). Ask for their suggestions to improve your
parts/price/lead time.

|| I am in Des Moines and think that a local supplier would be best
|| (if I can find one) due to shipping costs but am open to other
|| nearby areas if I cannot find someone local .
|
|| Is I-80 exit 110 (DeSoto) 16 miles west of Des Moines sufficiently
|| local? If so, you're invited to stop by.
| Absolutely. Anywhere within an hour's drive is definitely in the
| zone.

You can follow the link below to find contact info and a map. My shop
is easy to recognize: it has a big solar heating panel on the south
wall (facing I-80) and an orange wind sock over the north wall. Be
alert for vertical traffic.

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/

OK.
If the edges of the hexes are exactly 2 inches, how many hexes can you
get from two 4X8 sheets of 3/4 MDF?
How precise?
Can you sand the hexes?
How much ($$) total to produce?
How much to ship to zip code 50325 (or if you are within 50 miles, I
can pick up)?

On 5 Jul 2005 20:28:49 -0700, "Roamdog"
wrote:

Assuming that you mean distance from edge to opposite edge, and not
diagonal, the distance across one edge would be 2 3/16", not 1".
OK. I had my measurements wrong. I have some flexibility on size. It is important that each piece be "exactly" the same and a bit less important whether the edge is 1, 1.75 or 2. After re-thinking, I probably need each edge to be 2 inches.

OK, I'll apologise for thinking it was another troll, but it wasn't a
large jump considering the content of what are trolls.

Here's the little I know about woodworking: Making a 'round' topped
toy-box/cedar chest a while back, each strip had to be the same
[precise] length, width over that length, and cut of angle to go
together to form the top. That's the theory. In practice, I could
not simply set the saw and cut all off in one go, but had to cut each
one individually, "fiddling" to get it right [not your usual
bang-it-together and that will do type of project.] You simply will
not cut a mess of hexagons, that is 34 times 6 = 204 cuts, each
*precisely* the same without a lot of concentrated effort, and some
waste, and that is serious time and money. You again use the word
"exactly", and it is not going to happen. However, anything can be
done if you consider time, waste, and cost, so happy hunting.

On 5 Jul 2005 22:38:57 -0700, "Roamdog"
wrote:

If the edges of the hexes are exactly 2 inches, how many hexes can you
get from two 4X8 sheets of 3/4 MDF?

700 or so if you could honeycomb them, otherwise, something over 500
perhaps. Honeycomb is possible with other material [metal], and laser
or high pressure water jet, and a computerised system. Unfortunately,
MDF would either burn, or absorb moisture and deform.

How precise?

"Exact"?

The problem as I see it is that the expectation of a "precise" fit is
argumentative. Most have trouble cutting *one* hexagon and having all
sides turn out exactly as they expected first shot. It might look OK
in individual pieces, but when you assemble, the errors, however
small, *will* compound, and that adds up to a lot of effort for
something made out of pressed paper.

Too much talk on this topic already. I'm done.

"Roamdog" wrote in message
oups.com...
OK.
If the edges of the hexes are exactly 2 inches, how many hexes can you
get from two 4X8 sheets of 3/4 MDF?
How precise?
Can you sand the hexes?
How much ($$) total to produce?
How much to ship to zip code 50325 (or if you are within 50 miles, I
can pick up)?


Ok I read that your 6 sides will each be 2" long. This will result in a
hexagon being 3- 7/16" wide if measured from side to side and 4" wide if
measured from point to point.

The quantity coming from 2, 4x8 sheets of 3/4" MDF does not matter. I would
supply the materials as your shipping cost to me would probably cost more
than the materials.

I can cut the pieces to be the required measurements verified with a ruler.

Sand the hexes? What for? Sanding will make them unequal in size.

How much to produce? You need to tell me how many you want.

How much to ship? Again I need to know what quantity I am shipping.

Thank you so much for your patience and for your informative reply. I
will try to get over your way on Saturday.

Ok I read that your 6 sides will each be 2" long. This will result in
a
hexagon being 3- 7/16" wide if measured from side to side and 4" wide
if
measured from point to point.
Sounds right.

The quantity coming from 2, 4x8 sheets of 3/4" MDF does not matter. I
would
supply the materials as your shipping cost to me would probably cost
more
than the materials.
Would definitely expect you to purchase the two 4X8 sheets locally wherever you are. How many hexes of the size indicated can you get from two 4X8 sheets?

I can cut the pieces to be the required measurements verified with a
ruler.
Do you have the computerized router?

Sand the hexes? What for? Sanding will make them unequal in size.
The hexes will be handled by users so I was thinking that sanding would be needed so that nobody gets a splinter.

How much to produce? You need to tell me how many you want.
The maximum number that can be produced from two 4X8 sheets.

How much to ship? Again I need to know what quantity I am shipping.
Thanks for your patience.

"Roamdog" wrote in message
ups.com...

The quantity coming from 2, 4x8 sheets of 3/4" MDF does not matter. I
would
supply the materials as your shipping cost to me would probably cost
more
than the materials.
Would definitely expect you to purchase the two 4X8 sheets locally
wherever you are. How many hexes of the size indicated can you get from
two 4X8 sheets?

I still do not see the point of presenting an answer to this question. I do
not know nor would it affect the price very much if an extra 2 sheets were
needed to fill the order. The labor and time will be the vast majority of
the expence.


I can cut the pieces to be the required measurements verified with a
ruler.
Do you have the computerized router?

A CNC router , No. I would cut the blanks out with a TS.

Sand the hexes? What for? Sanding will make them unequal in size.
The hexes will be handled by users so I was thinking that sanding would
be needed so that nobody gets a splinter.

No one is going to get a splinter from MDF. MDF is not solid wood rather a
wood product.

How much to produce? You need to tell me how many you want.
The maximum number that can be produced from two 4X8 sheets.

Why on earth would the quantity be limited to an exact 2 sheets? My cost on
2 sheets of 3/4" MDF IIRC is about $45. Time is more important to me than
waste.


How much to ship? Again I need to know what quantity I am shipping.
Thanks for your patience.

Duck soup. I have a CNC router that can cut hexagons from a full sheet
at a time. With a 1/8" bit there'll be minimal waste but maximum
cutting time (~100 pieces/hr). A larger bit will provide smoother cuts
and reduced cutting time (~200-350 pieces/hour), but more waste. It's
less expensive to have a wider kerf because MDF costs less than either
machine or human time.
How large a bit (is a kerf the same thing as a bit?) would you recommend? As you note, a small amount of waste is more cost efficient since the material is way less expensive than the labor.


FWIW, 1/32" off won't exactly look "seamless". Will you want a "frame"
for the picture? How about a shipping/storage box?
What do I need for a "seamless" look? Can your machine do that?
I will not need a frame. May consider a storage box--had not thought about that.

Roamdog (in )
said:

Your nntp client is reversing the quoting. %-)

| Duck soup. I have a CNC router that can cut hexagons from a full
| sheet at a time. With a 1/8" bit there'll be minimal waste but
| maximum cutting time (~100 pieces/hr). A larger bit will provide
| smoother cuts and reduced cutting time (~200-350 pieces/hour), but
| more waste. It's less expensive to have a wider kerf because MDF
| costs less than either machine or human time.
||| How large a bit (is a kerf the same thing as a bit?) would you
||| recommend? As you note, a small amount of waste is more cost
||| efficient since the material is way less expensive than the
||| labor.

You need to see some samples so /you/ can make that decision. As
usual, these choices involve trade-offs that only you can make. I'll
let you look at similar parts cut with 1/8", 1/4", and 1/2" bits (most
of the difference in smoothness results from flexing of the bit.)

A /kerf/ is the cut or channel made by a saw. I've used the term here
because of the similarity of result. A /bit/ is the (usually
replaceable) cutting part of a tool.

| FWIW, 1/32" off won't exactly look "seamless". Will you want a
| "frame" for the picture? How about a shipping/storage box?
||| What do I need for a "seamless" look? Can your machine do that?
||| I will not need a frame. May consider a storage box--had not
||| thought about that.

If you're going to visit the shop Saturday I'll do "show-n-tell" with
some samples.

[Just so that nobody feels left out, nearly everything Roamdog will
see and handle has appeared at one time or another on either a.b.p.w.
or my web site - and visitors to the shop are always welcome.]

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/solar.html

A kerf is made by anything that cuts, not necessarily a saw. Your use was
correct.

"Morris Dovey" wrote in message
...
A /kerf/ is the cut or channel made by a saw. I've used the term here
because of the similarity of result. A /bit/ is the (usually
replaceable) cutting part of a tool.

You need to see some samples so /you/ can make that decision. As
usual, these choices involve trade-offs that only you can make. I'll
let you look at similar parts cut with 1/8", 1/4", and 1/2" bits (most
of the difference in smoothness results from flexing of the bit.)

Can you tell me how many hexes would be produced with the 1/8 or the
1/4 or the 1/2 bits? I am guessing that there is not a tremendous
difference in number?

I need at least 338. Would like 350 if the incremental cost is
negligible.

"Roamdog" wrote in message
oups.com...
I need at least 338. Would like 350 if the incremental cost is
negligible.


$498.00 for 338

On 4 Jul 2005 21:47:27 -0700, wrote:

I am looking for a source from which to purchase bulk wood hexagons cut
from 3/4-inch MDF that are 3.5 inches across (which I think means that
each side must be one (1) inch. I need these parts to be extremely
precise so I cannot just take my jigsaw and cut them by hand. I think
I remember reading somewhere that there is a tool/accessory that some
woodworkers have that allows them to cut exact duplicate shapes from
4X8 sheets??

I don't want to spoil any potential business for Morris, but if you
can't afford a couple of sheets of plywood instead of MDF, as you
state a little later in the thread, what are the odds of your being
able to pay for at least a couple of hours worth of time on a CNC
router?

If you've got a table saw, you can cut as many as you want, as
accurately as you can set a saw up (which is pretty accurate if you're
patient), with a decent fence and a couple of simple jigs. The trick
to making the pieces consistantly is to do all the reps of each op
before changing the setup, and verifying the setup every so often by
measuring a sample piece. I'd set up the fence, rip the entire sheet
into strips, then cut those strips into rhombuses with a miter guage
set to 30 degrees that has a hunk of flat scrap bolted to it as a
sacrificial extension, with a stop block screwed into that extension
on the far side of the blade to make sure each part is the same
length. Flip the rhobuses (or is it rhombii?) over and set the accute
corner against the stop block and viola, you have hexagons.

If you don't have a table saw, but do have a miter saw, you can buy
the MDF from a real lumber yard that has a shop on location, and have
them rip the sheet into strips. You'll have to pay them for the
service, but I used to do that before I had a table saw, and it wasn't
too terribly expensive. (IIRC, I had a local place rip 8 or 9 8"
planks of spruce into 1.5" wide strips for me, and it cost about seven
bucks) Then you can use a c-clamp to setup a stop block on the miter
saw fence, and cut away.

Both of these methods have the potential to be accurate to a 64th or
better, and they're a lot less expensive. Not to mention the fact
that you'll have some good experience doing it when all is said and
done, and you can say that you made them yourself. If you play your
cards right, you may even get a new tool or two out of the bargin.
MDF is cheap- even if you have to buy a saw, and mess up three or four
sheets before you get it right, you're still liable to save money
doing the job yourself.

Actually plywood does not seem that much more than MDF. So, I could
afford plywood. (What I cannot afford is real wood like cherry).

I considered plywood but it seemed... less solid... (and more prone to
giving users handling the hexes splinters) than MDF. I do understand
that MDF has moisture issues which is a big disadvantage (as there is
some small risk of liquid spillage for my intended use). But does
plywood break apart? Do I have to worry about the layers of the
plywood separating?

Unfortunately, I do not have the tools (yet) to tackle this. Nor the
expertise to get to 1/64 or better precision. And more importantly, I
have a time constraint that will not allow me to buy the tools, learn
to use them, and get the finished product done. Although I do like
your thought process of justifying new tools.
Will have to try that on my wife in the future.

Hey Morris - I hope that you are OK? Can you give me a call about my
hexagons? I have left you a couple of voicemails and a couple of
emails (not sure if my emails are even getting to you though).