Hi
After a previous post about sealing the outside of my bowl with pva glue ( no anchorseal in the uk ) i'm still getting about a quarter with small to very bad splits.
I have roughed out the bowl leaving the wall between 1/2 to 1 inch thick. Then painting the outside with pva glue and bring indoors to dry. I've tried neat glue and also one third water mix for better penetration, with mixed results on all. The wood i've been using has been on a wood pile for a few months, open to the elements and has been birch, ash and oak.
Can any one tell me what i'm doing wrong or is 1 in 4 split rough bowls to be expected
TIA
Mark

"Sniperborg" wrote in message
...

Hi
After a previous post about sealing the outside of my bowl with pva
glue ( no anchorseal in the uk ) i'm still getting about a quarter with
small to very bad splits.
I have roughed out the bowl leaving the wall between 1/2 to 1 inch
thick. Then painting the outside with pva glue and bring indoors to
dry. I've tried neat glue and also one third water mix for better
penetration, with mixed results on all. The wood i've been using has
been on a wood pile for a few months, open to the elements and has been
birch, ash and oak.
Can any one tell me what i'm doing wrong or is 1 in 4 split rough bowls
to be expected

Winter rules might be the culprit. Colder outside air holds less total
moisture, which means low relative humidity when heated in the house. I
leave my uncoated stuff in the open at 65% or greater RH with maybe one in
fifty a loss.

Put your pieces in a cool indoor place with newspaper tents over them to
keep the local RH high. Check after a few days and see what's happening.
Paper bags work, too.

That said, are you sure you didn't turn with cracks in the work to begin
with? Lots of times the cracks in firewood will close at high RH.
http://photobucket.com/albums/d160/G...t=803658e3.jpg
Shows stress cracks in the heart of hard maple. They're not always as
obvious, though. Wipe with mineral spirits and see if you have some.
They'll draw the spirits in by capillary action and be fairly obvious.

Here are a couple of links that may help. Seems there are as many ways
to dry without cracking as there are turners, but boiling per Steven
Russell's protocol seems to work best statistically.
http://www.woodturners.org/tech_tips...es/boiling.pdf
http://www.woodturningonline.com/Tur...es.html#drying
http://www.woodcentral.com/cgi-bin/r...cles_124.shtml
Never did find the original article, perhaps you'll have better luck.
His company is called Eurowood Werks.

Sniperborg wrote:
After a previous post about sealing the outside of my bowl with pva
glue ( no anchorseal in the uk ) i'm still getting about a quarter with
small to very bad splits.

Try Craft Supplies UK. I have an old catalog and they list end seal in
there.

I have roughed out the bowl leaving the wall between 1/2 to 1 inch
thick. Then painting the outside with pva glue and bring indoors to
dry.

Try for a more even wall thickness. I use endseal, inside and out, but
only in the areas where endgrain is exposed. 1/2 inch seems a bit thin.
Are you sure you will be able to turn a circle from it once it is dry?
You could also try leaving it in the workshop / garage / tool shed
rather than taking into the house.


Can any one tell me what i'm doing wrong or is 1 in 4 split rough bowls
to be expected

I have nearly 100% success with maple and yellow birch. OTOH some honey
locust treated in the same way split. Much depends on how wet the wood
was originally, and its physical characteristics such as shrinkage
factors and strength.


--
Derek Andrews, woodturner

http://www.seafoamwoodturning.com
http://chipshop.blogspot.com - a blog for my customers
http://www.seafoamwoodturning.com/TheToolrest/ - a blog for woodturners

Sniperborg wrote:

After a previous post about sealing the outside of my bowl with pva
glue ( no anchorseal in the uk ) i'm still getting about a quarter
with small to very bad splits.

As many people told you when you first asked, including myself, Chestnut
in the UK do an end sealer available in 5 litre containers.

--
Alun Saunders

As many people told you when you first asked, including myself, Chestnut
in the UK do an end sealer available in 5 litre containers.

--
Alun Saunders[/quote]


Alun
Thankyou for your reply, but what i wrote was that Anchorseal was not available in the uk. Also refering to my previous post some poeple said they where using PVA as an alternative end sealer and it was to them i was asking for advice about the my problems. If i have no joy with pva then of course i will go with your sergestion and try Chestnuts end sealer. Don't mean to sound you off but your reply did come across a bit firery.
Mark

I have had real good luck so far with the dishwashing soap method on side
grain bowls. I have not lost any
yet. I have soaked overnight and finished the next day and I have soaked and
allowed a week of drying
before finishing. I must say I have had poor luck with using the same method
on end grain. I have not tried
yet to completely finish end grain stuff the next day. I have only tried 3
end grain (with pith left in) and
allowed to dry for several days. All 3 cracked beyond use.

I do use the anchorseal method also. I have heard that a good coating of wax
on the end grain will
work just as well. You might want to give that a try.

Dave

"Alun" wrote in message
...
Sniperborg wrote:

After a previous post about sealing the outside of my bowl with pva glue
( no anchorseal in the uk ) i'm still getting about a quarter
with small to very bad splits.

As many people told you when you first asked, including myself, Chestnut
in the UK do an end sealer available in 5 litre containers.

--
Alun Saunders

[quote=Dave W]I have had real good luck so far with the dishwashing soap method on side
grain bowls. I have not lost any
yet. I have soaked overnight and finished the next day and I have soaked and
allowed a week of drying
before finishing. I must say I have had poor luck with using the same method
on end grain. I have not tried
yet to completely finish end grain stuff the next day. I have only tried 3
end grain (with pith left in) and
allowed to dry for several days. All 3 cracked beyond use.

I do use the anchorseal method also. I have heard that a good coating of wax
on the end grain will
work just as well. You might want to give that a try.




I am also now trying the LDD method along side the end sealing so i can find the method that works best for me.
I have just finished two bowls and have put one coat of tung oil on and left in my cold shed until i have put on all three coats. Then i will bring indoors for the warp/cracking test.
I don't know which side of the pond you are, but what LDD are you using. People have told me that they use Dawn or Ivory in the UK, but as our local shops don't have this, I've tried a product called Ecover as this was the only one on the shelf that was clear.
I would be interested in what you and any one elso has used for LDD and also what finish you used where you didn't get cracking or warping.
TIA
Mark

Hello to the group,

If anyone is interested in my boiling protocol, I will be happy to email it
to them if you will send me an email. I would post it on the group, but some
on the group do not care for posts that are more than a few sentences long.
I still do not have a website as yet, but I'm trying to get one up by early
'06. Plans are to include some of my latest research on the website, as I
have only published 10% of my total research in the last ten years.

I have boiled more than 10,000 bowls using my boiling protocol and it works
very well indeed. Losses per thousand bowls are less than 1/2 of 1%, with
many species reporting 100% success rates. I have been contacted by some
South American mills who have been using my boiling protocol to boil solid
exotic wood bowl blanks and other solid stock with superb results.

One even mentioned that they would probably be out of business if it were
not for my protocol, as their losses due to checking were so high. In
addition, thousands of woodturners in virtually every country in the world
are using my protocol with the same results. It works, if you follow the
protocol correctly and this has been verified by woodturners around the
world. I have a new boiling protocol that uses a pre-shock cycle, prior to
boiling that I will publish the protocol on very soon. I like to run at
least 500 bowls through a new protocol before publishing the results, as I
believe less than this is not really a valid test group.

In addition, I have begun experimenting on two new ways to dry timber using
some new innovative techniques. Results for these will not be available
until the end of 2006, or early 2007 as each subset will require 500 bowls,
with the master protocol requiring a total of 2,000 bowls to complete the
testing. As always, I remain at the group's service... If I can help you in
any way, please do not hesitate to contact me. Research and testing
continue... Humm, I see my post is a wee bit long, I guess I'll have to
hunker down for the incoming :-0


On 11/30/05 9:02 PM, in article
, "
wrote:

Here are a couple of links that may help. Seems there are as many ways
to dry without cracking as there are turners, but boiling per Steven
Russell's protocol seems to work best statistically.
http://www.woodturners.org/tech_tips...es/boiling.pdf
http://www.woodturningonline.com/Tur...es.html#drying
http://www.woodcentral.com/cgi-bin/r...le=articles_12
4.shtml
Never did find the original article, perhaps you'll have better luck.
His company is called Eurowood Werks.


--
Better Woodturning and Finishing Through Chemistry...

Steven D. Russell
Eurowood Werks Woodturning Studio, The Woodlands, Texas
Machinery, Tool and Product Testing for the Woodworking and Woodturning
Industries

Research and Testing to Benefit the Worldwide Woodturning Community

³Woodturning with Steven D. Russell²
Volume #1 CD ROM e-Book * Available for Shipment
Volume #2 CD ROM e-Book/DVD Video * Available for Shipment
Volume #3 Double DVD Video on Bowl Turning * Available for Shipment

In article ,
Steve Russell wrote:

Hello to the group,

If anyone is interested in my boiling protocol, I will be happy to email it
to them if you will send me an email. I would post it on the group, but some
on the group do not care for posts that are more than a few sentences long.
....
continue... Humm, I see my post is a wee bit long, I guess I'll have to
hunker down for the incoming :-0

Well, I'd suggest dropping those people in your spam filter and posting
away Steve, since your posts are/have been one of the best bits of
reading here. And any of those people should drop you (and me) into
their spam filters and then go back to watching soap opera's...

--
Cats, coffee, chocolate...vices to live by

Hi Steve

Love to see your results on your drying experiments, I have your boiling
file and though I rarely use the boiling way on my turnings I do use
it for some woods that I know are going to give me trouble.

I am interested, like to know things and it gives me choices, thank You

Have fun and take care
Leo Van Der Loo

Steve Russell wrote:

Hello to the group,

If anyone is interested in my boiling protocol, I will be happy to email it
to them if you will send me an email. I would post it on the group, but some
on the group do not care for posts that are more than a few sentences long.

/SNIP/

I have begun experimenting on two new ways to dry timber using
some new innovative techniques. Results for these will not be available
until the end of 2006, or early 2007 as each subset will require 500 bowls,
with the master protocol requiring a total of 2,000 bowls to complete the
testing. As always, I remain at the group's service... If I can help you in
any way, please do not hesitate to contact me. Research and testing
continue... Humm, I see my post is a wee bit long, I guess I'll have to
hunker down for the incoming :-0

"Steve Russell" wrote in message
...
Hello to the group,

If anyone is interested in my boiling protocol, I will be happy to email
it
to them if you will send me an email. I would post it on the group, but
some
on the group do not care for posts that are more than a few sentences
long.
I still do not have a website as yet, but I'm trying to get one up by
early
'06. Plans are to include some of my latest research on the website, as I
have only published 10% of my total research in the last ten years.

I have boiled more than 10,000 bowls using my boiling protocol and it
works
very well indeed. Losses per thousand bowls are less than 1/2 of 1%, with
many species reporting 100% success rates. I have been contacted by some
South American mills who have been using my boiling protocol to boil solid
exotic wood bowl blanks and other solid stock with superb results.

One even mentioned that they would probably be out of business if it were
not for my protocol, as their losses due to checking were so high. In
addition, thousands of woodturners in virtually every country in the world
are using my protocol with the same results. It works, if you follow the
protocol correctly and this has been verified by woodturners around the
world. I have a new boiling protocol that uses a pre-shock cycle, prior to
boiling that I will publish the protocol on very soon. I like to run at
least 500 bowls through a new protocol before publishing the results, as I
believe less than this is not really a valid test group.

In addition, I have begun experimenting on two new ways to dry timber
using
some new innovative techniques. Results for these will not be available
until the end of 2006, or early 2007 as each subset will require 500
bowls,
with the master protocol requiring a total of 2,000 bowls to complete the
testing. As always, I remain at the group's service... If I can help you
in
any way, please do not hesitate to contact me. Research and testing
continue... Humm, I see my post is a wee bit long, I guess I'll have to
hunker down for the incoming :-0


On 11/30/05 9:02 PM, in article
,
"
wrote:

Here are a couple of links that may help. Seems there are as many ways
to dry without cracking as there are turners, but boiling per Steven
Russell's protocol seems to work best statistically.
http://www.woodturners.org/tech_tips...es/boiling.pdf
http://www.woodturningonline.com/Tur...es.html#drying
http://www.woodcentral.com/cgi-bin/r...le=articles_12
4.shtml
Never did find the original article, perhaps you'll have better luck.
His company is called Eurowood Werks.


--
Better Woodturning and Finishing Through Chemistry...

Steven D. Russell
Eurowood Werks Woodturning Studio, The Woodlands, Texas
Machinery, Tool and Product Testing for the Woodworking and Woodturning
Industries

====Steve: Didn't you also say that you were going to run a study on LDD?

Leif

Ecnerwal wrote:
Well, I'd suggest dropping those people in your spam filter and posting
away Steve, since your posts are/have been one of the best bits of
reading here. And any of those people should drop you (and me) into
their spam filters and then go back to watching soap opera's...

Yeah, da noive a' dose guys makin' wid da complaints against our great
guru. We all wants ta hear what youse gots to say, Steve, so let 'er
rip. If any a dem guys complains, Vinnie and Vito may have ta pay dem a
visit, just a social call you understand....

Leif Thorvaldson wrote:

====Steve: Didn't you also say that you were going to run a study on LDD?

Leif

I'm waiting for the DVD. Nothing more exciting than watching a boiling
pot of wood. Then we can take it to the next level - boil it in LDD!

....Kevin
--
Kevin Miller
http://www.alaska.net/~atftb
Juneau, Alaska
Registered Linux User No: 307357

Steve Russell wrote:
Hello to the group,

If anyone is interested in my boiling protocol, I will be happy to email it
to them if you will send me an email. I would post it on the group, but some
on the group do not care for posts that are more than a few sentences long.
I still do not have a website as yet, but I'm trying to get one up by early
'06. Plans are to include some of my latest research on the website, as I
have only published 10% of my total research in the last ten years.

If you like Steve, I'd be happy to put the study up on my web page (with
all due credit of course). It's nothing fancy, but for a bunch of text
and maybe some photos it wouldn't be much work to make it at least
presentable until you can find time to make your own site...

....Kevin
--
Kevin Miller
http://www.alaska.net/~atftb
Juneau, Alaska
Registered Linux User No: 307357

Hello,

Thanks for the kind words. I'm just getting back from a demo in Dallas,
please accept my apologies for the late reply. Sometimes you can't
adequately explain something in a few sound bites. Those favouring short
posts would not want me posting the results of my experiments to
reduce/eliminate ultraviolet degradation and related colour loss in wood via
TTD's and H.A.L.S.'s. I would guess the gross material would come in around
450,000 - 500,000 words. :-) Best wishes to you and yours for a safe and
Happy Holiday Season! Take care.


On 12/8/05 10:51 AM, in article
, "Ecnerwal"
wrote:

In article ,
Steve Russell wrote:

Hello to the group,

If anyone is interested in my boiling protocol, I will be happy to email it
to them if you will send me an email. I would post it on the group, but some
on the group do not care for posts that are more than a few sentences long.
...

continue... Humm, I see my post is a wee bit long, I guess I'll have to
hunker down for the incoming :-0

Well, I'd suggest dropping those people in your spam filter and posting
away Steve, since your posts are/have been one of the best bits of
reading here. And any of those people should drop you (and me) into
their spam filters and then go back to watching soap opera's...

--
Better Woodturning and Finishing Through Chemistry...

Steven D. Russell
Eurowood Werks Woodturning Studio, The Woodlands, Texas
Machinery, Tool and Product Testing for the Woodworking and Woodturning
Industries

³Woodturning with Steven D. Russell²
Volume #1 CD ROM e-Book * Available for Shipment
Volume #2 CD ROM e-Book/DVD Video * Available for Shipment
Volume #3 Double DVD Video on Bowl Turning * Available for Shipment

Hello Leo,

I will keep the group posted. I'm always looking for new ways to increase
the efficiency of the overall woodturning process. As you so eloquently
said, it gives you choices! Bets wishes to you and yours for a safe and
Happy Holiday Season! Take care.


On 12/8/05 3:07 PM, in article ,
"Leo Van Der Loo" wrote:

Hi Steve

Love to see your results on your drying experiments, I have your boiling
file and though I rarely use the boiling way on my turnings I do use
it for some woods that I know are going to give me trouble.

I am interested, like to know things and it gives me choices, thank You

Have fun and take care
Leo Van Der Loo


--
Better Woodturning and Finishing Through Chemistry...

Steven D. Russell
Eurowood Werks Woodturning Studio, The Woodlands, Texas
Machinery, Tool and Product Testing for the Woodworking and Woodturning
Industries

³Woodturning with Steven D. Russell²
Volume #1 CD ROM e-Book * Available for Shipment
Volume #2 CD ROM e-Book/DVD Video * Available for Shipment
Volume #3 Double DVD Video on Bowl Turning * Available for Shipment

Hello Leif,

Yes indeed... It's still underway and the results should be available in
late Spring, '06. As I mentioned, I like to have a minimum of 500 bowls in
each test, with some requiring more, based on the preset objectives and
goals of the testing.

For the LDD testing, this necessitated an extensive modification of the
testing protocols to include a broader number of species, wall thicknesses,
grain orientations, specific locations etc. This significantly increases the
time required to complete the testing. I hope to be finished by early summer
next year. Best wishes to you and yours for a safe and Happy Holiday Season!
Take care.

On 12/8/05 7:52 PM, in article , "Leif
Thorvaldson" wrote:



====Steve: Didn't you also say that you were going to run a study on LDD?

Leif



--
Better Woodturning and Finishing Through Chemistry...

Steven D. Russell
Eurowood Werks Woodturning Studio, The Woodlands, Texas
Machinery, Tool and Product Testing for the Woodworking and Woodturning
Industries

³Woodturning with Steven D. Russell²
Volume #1 CD ROM e-Book * Available for Shipment
Volume #2 CD ROM e-Book/DVD Video * Available for Shipment
Volume #3 Double DVD Video on Bowl Turning * Available for Shipment

Hello Mike,

Thanks for the post, I'm laughing so hard it's hard to type.... :-) Take
care and best wishes to you and yours for a safe and Happy Holiday Season!


On 12/9/05 1:13 AM, in article , "Mike
Paulson" wrote:

Ecnerwal wrote:
Well, I'd suggest dropping those people in your spam filter and posting
away Steve, since your posts are/have been one of the best bits of
reading here. And any of those people should drop you (and me) into
their spam filters and then go back to watching soap opera's...

Yeah, da noive a' dose guys makin' wid da complaints against our great
guru. We all wants ta hear what youse gots to say, Steve, so let 'er
rip. If any a dem guys complains, Vinnie and Vito may have ta pay dem a
visit, just a social call you understand....




--
Better Woodturning and Finishing Through Chemistry...

Steven D. Russell
Eurowood Werks Woodturning Studio, The Woodlands, Texas
Machinery, Tool and Product Testing for the Woodworking and Woodturning
Industries

³Woodturning with Steven D. Russell²
Volume #1 CD ROM e-Book * Available for Shipment
Volume #2 CD ROM e-Book/DVD Video * Available for Shipment
Volume #3 Double DVD Video on Bowl Turning * Available for Shipment

If anyone knows Steve then you know how good a turner he is. Steve
travels with the Woodworking Shows as well as running a professional
turning shop in California. Take advantage of his DVDs to learn
techniques. I have seen him several times in Portland and don't miss an
opportunity to watch him turn when he comes.

Bob Darrah
West Linn, Oregon

Hello Kevin,

Thanks for the offer... If I can't get my website up and running soon, I
will take you up on it. :-) Take care and all the best to you and yours!


On 12/9/05 7:19 PM, in article , "Kevin Miller"
wrote:

If you like Steve, I'd be happy to put the study up on my web page (with
all due credit of course). It's nothing fancy, but for a bunch of text
and maybe some photos it wouldn't be much work to make it at least
presentable until you can find time to make your own site...

...Kevin

--
Better Woodturning and Finishing Through Chemistry...

Steven D. Russell
Eurowood Werks Woodturning Studio, The Woodlands, Texas
Machinery, Tool and Product Testing for the Woodworking and Woodturning
Industries

³Woodturning with Steven D. Russell²
Volume #1 CD ROM e-Book * Available for Shipment
Volume #2 CD ROM e-Book/DVD Video * Available for Shipment
Volume #3 Double DVD Video on Bowl Turning * Available for Shipment