Guy Fawke's Day is an opportunity to acknowledge North America's debt to
British woodturning. They started it all for most of us and our present
British friends and turners have continued their great tradition and
contributions to the craft.

Don't put your turning mistakes on the bonfire tonight, send them over
here. I just read the estimates for home heating oil this winter.
Arrrgh!


Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter



http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings

On Sat, 5 Nov 2005 09:48:03 -0500, (Arch) wrote:


Arrrgh!
^^^^^^^

Turning to piracy now, Arch?

--
Chuck *#:^)
chaz3913(AT)yahoo(DOT)com
Anti-spam sig: please remove "NO SPAM" from e-mail address to reply.


September 11, 2001 - Never Forget

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"Arch" wrote in message
...
I just read the estimates for home heating oil this winter.
Arrrgh!


Probably means a lot less to you than to us in the north.

Glad to have wood as primary.

I saw in last night's paper that natural gas prices have doubled since the
first of this year, that's the piracy!

Ken Moon
Webberville, TX

"Arch" wrote in message
...
Guy Fawke's Day is an opportunity to acknowledge North America's debt to
British woodturning. They started it all for most of us and our present
British friends and turners have continued their great tradition and
contributions to the craft.

Don't put your turning mistakes on the bonfire tonight, send them over
here. I just read the estimates for home heating oil this winter.
Arrrgh!


Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter



http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings

Ken Moon said:

I saw in last night's paper that natural gas prices have doubled since the
first of this year, that's the piracy!

We've always done pretty well using natural gas - but this latest
attempt to gouge customers has me over the top. Last year, I added
insulation and generally tightened up the structure. Lower losses
were immediately offset by higher prices, now this!

We are about to need a new furnace soon, and I've been looking at
alternatives. But they won't let me install a nuclear furnace here...

Man, how I long for that wood burning stove we used in the OLD home...


Greg G.

Chuck, the oil companies fly the jolly roger, and I have to fly a white
flag.

George, there's a Iittle house in downeast Maine where the inhabitants
think I'm the drive up window at the bank. The State O' Maine should be
closed after Labor Day.


Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter



http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings

Greg wrote:

Ken Moon said:

I saw in last night's paper that natural gas prices have doubled since
the first of this year, that's the piracy!

We've always done pretty well using natural gas - but this latest
attempt to gouge customers has me over the top. Last year, I added
insulation and generally tightened up the structure. Lower losses
were immediately offset by higher prices, now this!

So we've got You to thank for this, they had to make up the difference
somehow! )


We are about to need a new furnace soon, and I've been looking at
alternatives. But they won't let me install a nuclear furnace here...

Man, how I long for that wood burning stove we used in the OLD home...


Greg G.

Lobby Dosser said:

Greg wrote:

Ken Moon said:

I saw in last night's paper that natural gas prices have doubled since
the first of this year, that's the piracy!

We've always done pretty well using natural gas - but this latest
attempt to gouge customers has me over the top. Last year, I added
insulation and generally tightened up the structure. Lower losses
were immediately offset by higher prices, now this!

So we've got You to thank for this, they had to make up the difference
somehow! )

I'm about ready to go live in a tent.
Eat berries and s#%t in the woods with the bears...

If it will help any, I'll go knock some holes in the walls...
Relieves the frustration...



We are about to need a new furnace soon, and I've been looking at
alternatives. But they won't let me install a nuclear furnace here...

Man, how I long for that wood burning stove we used in the OLD home...


Greg G.



Greg G.

Greg,
Unsure how long this advantage will hold up but my new place has a Trane 13
SEER heat pump with variable speed air handler. My bills are reasonable,
even cheap comparatively, and you can't hear a sound or find cold/hot spots.

We live in North Carolina and winters will get down to single digits briefly
and the teens commonly. Summers to high 90's. I used to swear by natural gas
until my winter dry, itchy skin flakes largely went away with a heat pump.

I mention the brand because they did an awesome job of backing their product
in a bad situation at another house when I got a replacement. That
replacement unit is the one that convinced me to stay with electricity.

TomNie
"Greg G." wrote in message
...
Ken Moon said:

I saw in last night's paper that natural gas prices have doubled since the
first of this year, that's the piracy!

We've always done pretty well using natural gas - but this latest
attempt to gouge customers has me over the top. Last year, I added
insulation and generally tightened up the structure. Lower losses
were immediately offset by higher prices, now this!

We are about to need a new furnace soon, and I've been looking at
alternatives. But they won't let me install a nuclear furnace here...

Man, how I long for that wood burning stove we used in the OLD home...


Greg G.

Tom Nie said:

Greg,
Unsure how long this advantage will hold up but my new place has a Trane 13
SEER heat pump with variable speed air handler. My bills are reasonable,
even cheap comparatively, and you can't hear a sound or find cold/hot spots.

Heat pumps are popular in Florida (lived 10 yrs), and you almost never
see anything else. But they're not so common here (Atlanta), and you
end up using the resistance heater more often, AFAIK.
But this gas business...

We live in North Carolina and winters will get down to single digits briefly
and the teens commonly. Summers to high 90's. I used to swear by natural gas
until my winter dry, itchy skin flakes largely went away with a heat pump.

About the same here - maybe a little warmer.
I installed a humidifier on the furnace, so the 'dry air' and warping
doors haven't been as much of a problem.

I mention the brand because they did an awesome job of backing their product
in a bad situation at another house when I got a replacement. That
replacement unit is the one that convinced me to stay with electricity.

Me Like Quality! ;-)
Me Not Like Builder Special. :-(

Thanks,

Greg G.

Greg G.:

Why don't you put a nice wood stove in your family TV room? I am
seeing more of that here, and they are making nicer stoves again,
probably due as a response to the last few years of our northern
neighbors getting their eyeballs screwed out of their heads by greedy
companies.

I am in South Texas, and it rarely gets below the teens here, and it
snows little flakes about once every five years. But we have a lot of
those 40 (+/- 5 degrees) degree days where it rains constantly. Nasty,
miserable, weather with the rain.

The newer designer stoves even look nice. Some come with air
circulators, and some are even meant to be built in for that "hey this
was on purpose" look. I am thinking that some of the ones I have seen
would pay for themselves pretty well in the second year. The cheapies
even sooner.

Just a thought.

robert

Robert,

I thought that direction, too. Around here and from what I could find on the
internet one of the true heaters would cost a ton (fireplace type). Even one
of the factory techs told me to just go with a regular wbfp instead of
paying for the simple fan type (true heater different story).

Then decided to grab a Home Depot special at Spring time. Bonafide wood
stove that I'd put in the basement. I'd done that before in a Raised Ranch
in Boston that I had built - worked great. Then I found out what stainless
steel chimneys up the outside of an existent two-story cost!!! No bargain
there and would have to stick up something fierce above the gutter line to
meet code at the roof. Ugly as hell, too.

Finally gave up and returned the wood stove. Just use a big fireplace and
the heat pump.

TomNie

wrote in message
ups.com...
Greg G.:

Why don't you put a nice wood stove in your family TV room? I am
seeing more of that here, and they are making nicer stoves again,
probably due as a response to the last few years of our northern
neighbors getting their eyeballs screwed out of their heads by greedy
companies.

I am in South Texas, and it rarely gets below the teens here, and it
snows little flakes about once every five years. But we have a lot of
those 40 (+/- 5 degrees) degree days where it rains constantly. Nasty,
miserable, weather with the rain.

The newer designer stoves even look nice. Some come with air
circulators, and some are even meant to be built in for that "hey this
was on purpose" look. I am thinking that some of the ones I have seen
would pay for themselves pretty well in the second year. The cheapies
even sooner.

Just a thought.

robert

I will ask, what is a heat pump??? I understand furnace, wall heater,
fireplace and stove but don't know "heat pump"

Bruce
"Tom Nie" wrote in message
...
Robert,

I thought that direction, too. Around here and from what I could find on
the internet one of the true heaters would cost a ton (fireplace type).
Even one of the factory techs told me to just go with a regular wbfp
instead of paying for the simple fan type (true heater different story).

Then decided to grab a Home Depot special at Spring time. Bonafide wood
stove that I'd put in the basement. I'd done that before in a Raised Ranch
in Boston that I had built - worked great. Then I found out what stainless
steel chimneys up the outside of an existent two-story cost!!! No bargain
there and would have to stick up something fierce above the gutter line to
meet code at the roof. Ugly as hell, too.

Finally gave up and returned the wood stove. Just use a big fireplace and
the heat pump.

TomNie

wrote in message
ups.com...
Greg G.:

Why don't you put a nice wood stove in your family TV room? I am
seeing more of that here, and they are making nicer stoves again,
probably due as a response to the last few years of our northern
neighbors getting their eyeballs screwed out of their heads by greedy
companies.

I am in South Texas, and it rarely gets below the teens here, and it
snows little flakes about once every five years. But we have a lot of
those 40 (+/- 5 degrees) degree days where it rains constantly. Nasty,
miserable, weather with the rain.

The newer designer stoves even look nice. Some come with air
circulators, and some are even meant to be built in for that "hey this
was on purpose" look. I am thinking that some of the ones I have seen
would pay for themselves pretty well in the second year. The cheapies
even sooner.

Just a thought.

robert

Bruce Ferguson said:

I will ask, what is a heat pump??? I understand furnace, wall heater,
fireplace and stove but don't know "heat pump"


Hey, Bruce,

Basically, it's a reverse air conditioner. Pulls heat from the
outside air and dumps it inside - and there is the rub. It doesn't
work in colder climates very well, 'cause there ain't no heat.

Most have a resistance heater as 'emergency backup heat'.
(A glowing red nichrome wire...)

FWIW,

Greg G.

Bruce,

Greg's answer is correct but in fairness to anyone watching I have to insist
that while NC is not upper Michigan it's temperatures dropping to single
digits is not exactly southern Florida either.

Point being the total utility costs USING THE NEWEST heat pumps. That's
critical because the old ones would break the bank. That's where they got a
BAD reputation. And if you're in an area that uses central air conditioning
commonly, it becomes a real easy decision.

As I listen to the utility bills in my area I love my system. Also, since
I've moved to the country I hear screams over the cost of propane since
natural gas isn't available. A good, honest HVAC company instead of the
common bull..t artists makes a real difference. I use a 250 gal. propane
tank for my kitchen cooktop, the fireplace log starter, my deck grill, and
maybe a future garage or downstairs(daylight basement) heater. That way I
can refill in the summer instead of winter prices.

I've no log in this fire (no pun intended) but to share what might help
someone else. I always swore natural gas and you hear me now.

TomNie

"Bruce Ferguson" wrote in message
...
I will ask, what is a heat pump??? I understand furnace, wall heater,
fireplace and stove but don't know "heat pump"

Bruce
"Tom Nie" wrote in message
...
Robert,

I thought that direction, too. Around here and from what I could find on
the internet one of the true heaters would cost a ton (fireplace type).
Even one of the factory techs told me to just go with a regular wbfp
instead of paying for the simple fan type (true heater different story).

Then decided to grab a Home Depot special at Spring time. Bonafide wood
stove that I'd put in the basement. I'd done that before in a Raised
Ranch in Boston that I had built - worked great. Then I found out what
stainless steel chimneys up the outside of an existent two-story cost!!!
No bargain there and would have to stick up something fierce above the
gutter line to meet code at the roof. Ugly as hell, too.

Finally gave up and returned the wood stove. Just use a big fireplace and
the heat pump.

TomNie

wrote in message
ups.com...
Greg G.:

Why don't you put a nice wood stove in your family TV room? I am
seeing more of that here, and they are making nicer stoves again,
probably due as a response to the last few years of our northern
neighbors getting their eyeballs screwed out of their heads by greedy
companies.

I am in South Texas, and it rarely gets below the teens here, and it
snows little flakes about once every five years. But we have a lot of
those 40 (+/- 5 degrees) degree days where it rains constantly. Nasty,
miserable, weather with the rain.

The newer designer stoves even look nice. Some come with air
circulators, and some are even meant to be built in for that "hey this
was on purpose" look. I am thinking that some of the ones I have seen
would pay for themselves pretty well in the second year. The cheapies
even sooner.

Just a thought.

robert

It is a refrig cooler in the summer and a (switch the pump backwards automatically)
and the hot (that normally goes outside is inside - the cold is outside..) heater in winter.

Ours cools for a while - then turns off the fan and then heats the coils. Melts ice
if any formed - then senses room is warm and converts back and pumps cold and then
turns on the fan....

Tends to be on much more than I want - but the unit seems smaller and bill is lower.
I actually have two window units for the (now game room) garage windows that heat in
winter and cool in summer. The central doesn't go there - naturally.

I got two medium units - so I can run just one at a time unless it is severe.
They are remote control which is nice for the game room (that is still coming together.

Martin
Martin Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
NRA LOH, NRA Life
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder



Bruce Ferguson wrote:
I will ask, what is a heat pump??? I understand furnace, wall heater,
fireplace and stove but don't know "heat pump"

Bruce
"Tom Nie" wrote in message
...

Robert,

I thought that direction, too. Around here and from what I could find on
the internet one of the true heaters would cost a ton (fireplace type).
Even one of the factory techs told me to just go with a regular wbfp
instead of paying for the simple fan type (true heater different story).

Then decided to grab a Home Depot special at Spring time. Bonafide wood
stove that I'd put in the basement. I'd done that before in a Raised Ranch
in Boston that I had built - worked great. Then I found out what stainless
steel chimneys up the outside of an existent two-story cost!!! No bargain
there and would have to stick up something fierce above the gutter line to
meet code at the roof. Ugly as hell, too.

Finally gave up and returned the wood stove. Just use a big fireplace and
the heat pump.

TomNie

wrote in message
roups.com...

Greg G.:

Why don't you put a nice wood stove in your family TV room? I am
seeing more of that here, and they are making nicer stoves again,
probably due as a response to the last few years of our northern
neighbors getting their eyeballs screwed out of their heads by greedy
companies.

I am in South Texas, and it rarely gets below the teens here, and it
snows little flakes about once every five years. But we have a lot of
those 40 (+/- 5 degrees) degree days where it rains constantly. Nasty,
miserable, weather with the rain.

The newer designer stoves even look nice. Some come with air
circulators, and some are even meant to be built in for that "hey this
was on purpose" look. I am thinking that some of the ones I have seen
would pay for themselves pretty well in the second year. The cheapies
even sooner.

Just a thought.

robert






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"Tom Nie" wrote in
:

Robert,

I thought that direction, too. Around here and from what I could find
on the internet one of the true heaters would cost a ton (fireplace
type). Even one of the factory techs told me to just go with a regular
wbfp instead of paying for the simple fan type (true heater different
story).

Then decided to grab a Home Depot special at Spring time. Bonafide
wood stove that I'd put in the basement. I'd done that before in a
Raised Ranch in Boston that I had built - worked great. Then I found
out what stainless steel chimneys up the outside of an existent
two-story cost!!! No bargain there and would have to stick up
something fierce above the gutter line to meet code at the roof. Ugly
as hell, too.

Finally gave up and returned the wood stove. Just use a big fireplace
and the heat pump.

TomNie



You built a raised ranch in Boston? Wow. How large was your property? Back
in the eighties (1980's), we wanted to build in the Boston 'burbs, but
finding a suitable lot (size, affordable) just wasn't possible. Still love
the area though.
Hank

Hank,

Boston area - S. Easton 5 acres near Brockton.

Rod & Gun Club end of road, cranberry bog with bass other end. Seems it was
about 35 miles to Logan Airport.

Late 70's - Also seems like $65,000 at the time - imagine that!!!

TomNie

"Henry St.Pierre" wrote in message
. 97.142...
"Tom Nie" wrote in
:

Robert,

I thought that direction, too. Around here and from what I could find
on the internet one of the true heaters would cost a ton (fireplace
type). Even one of the factory techs told me to just go with a regular
wbfp instead of paying for the simple fan type (true heater different
story).

Then decided to grab a Home Depot special at Spring time. Bonafide
wood stove that I'd put in the basement. I'd done that before in a
Raised Ranch in Boston that I had built - worked great. Then I found
out what stainless steel chimneys up the outside of an existent
two-story cost!!! No bargain there and would have to stick up
something fierce above the gutter line to meet code at the roof. Ugly
as hell, too.

Finally gave up and returned the wood stove. Just use a big fireplace
and the heat pump.

TomNie



You built a raised ranch in Boston? Wow. How large was your property? Back
in the eighties (1980's), we wanted to build in the Boston 'burbs, but
finding a suitable lot (size, affordable) just wasn't possible. Still love
the area though.
Hank

I need to start burning wood in a long unused (except the occasional gas
log for 'charm') fireplace, Probably will need a heater/blower, but
maybe open. What should be done for fire safety before firing up?

I'm confused about chimney linings, or inline creosote removers etc. and
I don't see anyone around here wearing a top hat and carrying a broom.

BTW, Weather in Tallahassee is much like N.C. and Atlanta with its three
seasons, except no ice storms and the cold snaps are short lived. Not
everyone in Florida goes swimming in winter. Tourists, maybe!


Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter



http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings

I'm pretty sure if you contacted your home insurance agent they would have a
LOT of tips. heh



"Arch" wrote in message
...
I need to start burning wood in a long unused (except the occasional gas
log for 'charm') fireplace, Probably will need a heater/blower, but
maybe open. What should be done for fire safety before firing up?

I'm confused about chimney linings, or inline creosote removers etc. and
I don't see anyone around here wearing a top hat and carrying a broom.

BTW, Weather in Tallahassee is much like N.C. and Atlanta with its three
seasons, except no ice storms and the cold snaps are short lived. Not
everyone in Florida goes swimming in winter. Tourists, maybe!


Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter



http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings

"Arch" wrote in message
...
I need to start burning wood in a long unused (except the occasional gas
log for 'charm') fireplace, Probably will need a heater/blower, but
maybe open. What should be done for fire safety before firing up?

I'm confused about chimney linings, or inline creosote removers etc. and
I don't see anyone around here wearing a top hat and carrying a broom.


Clearing and sweeping the chimney is the first thing. If it's been unused
for a while, you might have it blocked off by swallows' nests. Do the
mirror inspection with the sun high in the sky to assess any problems. If
you see other than clean flue, get the sweeps.

Since I burn wood as primary, the wife and I sweep late fall and late
spring. It does involve me at the top and her below, but by securing ropes
top and bottom on the brush, she can grab and stomp the rope, pulling down
in spurts, and I draw back up. Few times up and back is normally enough.

Chemical creosote removers are bit of a mystery to me. I throw some in
once in a while, but I have no idea if they do any good.

If you don't have a blower in the box liner, your options are fairly
limited. The hollow andirons with the blower seem to work. Get a good
screen.

Thanks Kevin, good idea. Insurance agents are very busy after a
hurricane or other natural disaster, so I just searched the net and even
WebTv found thousands of sites with more info than I need. The Chimney
Safety Institute of America, CSIA, provides seemingly reliable chimney
safety info and certifies competent chimney sweeps listed by town and
state.

Then why did I ask rcw when it's already burdened or bettered by 561
current posts? Many deal with woodturning.

There are lots of good reasons to ask or not to ask questions on rcw
when the answers are easily found elsewhere or have been frequently
asked and repeatedly answered. We can muse about these reasons and your
opinions later.


Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter



http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings

Thanks George, Your post is a good reason for asking rcw.


Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter



http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings

Call a chimney sweep. They are licensed and know their stuff.
They will sweep it - verify it won't catch on fire if it is full of wax
from wax logs - or is it a ceramic log fire. In any case - have a pro
eye it and clean if needed. Cheap in the long run.

Martin

Martin Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
NRA LOH, NRA Life
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder



Arch wrote:
I need to start burning wood in a long unused (except the occasional gas
log for 'charm') fireplace, Probably will need a heater/blower, but
maybe open. What should be done for fire safety before firing up?

I'm confused about chimney linings, or inline creosote removers etc. and
I don't see anyone around here wearing a top hat and carrying a broom.

BTW, Weather in Tallahassee is much like N.C. and Atlanta with its three
seasons, except no ice storms and the cold snaps are short lived. Not
everyone in Florida goes swimming in winter. Tourists, maybe!


Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter



http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings


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(Arch) wrote:

I need to start burning wood in a long unused (except the occasional
gas log for 'charm') fireplace, Probably will need a heater/blower,
but maybe open. What should be done for fire safety before firing up?

Get the chimney looked at and possibly cleaned by someone who knows what
they are doing. Is there gas to the fireplace? Can you burn wood in a gas
equiped fireplace?

Look for Passive blowers to spread the heat around. Here's an example:

http://www.fireplacestuff.com/fireplace/fpheater.htm

Note that you can add a blower as an option.

FWIW, I stay in shorts and short sleeve shirts until it gets below
freezing, then I wear jeans - mostly so that everyone else doesn't feel
like a wimp.

Stay warm.

Oh, and buy SWMBO the best dinner you can afford.

On Thu, 10 Nov 2005 12:42:34 -0500, (Arch) wrote:

BTW, Weather in Tallahassee is much like N.C. and Atlanta with its three

Didn't know you lived in Tally, Arch. Got a friend who lives there
and works for SEMA, or whatever they call it down there.


--
Chuck *#:^)
chaz3913(AT)yahoo(DOT)com
Anti-spam sig: please remove "NO SPAM" from e-mail address to reply.


September 11, 2001 - Never Forget

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----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----