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UK diy (uk.d-i-y) For the discussion of all topics related to diy (do-it-yourself) in the UK. All levels of experience and proficency are welcome to join in to ask questions or offer solutions. |
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#121
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On Tue, 8 Jun 2021 06:49:43 +1000, Joey, better known as cantankerous
trolling senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote: FLUSH the trolling senile asshole's latest troll**** unread -- about senile Rot Speed: "This is like having a conversation with someone with brain damage." MID: |
#122
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On Monday, 7 June 2021 at 18:40:07 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
I never use the handbrake. Footbrake on with the left foot when I engage drive. My first automatic didn't have handbrake. It had a parking brake which was operated by foot. (The manual version was foul to drive.) |
#123
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On 07/06/2021 14:55, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
A decent modern auto will usually select the same gear as a skilled diver would too. And better than many. This. My ZF 8 speed auto is stunningly clever at getting the right ratio and the TC to locks up very quickly. It's an absolute joy to drive. I was reluctant at first having had 3 old 3 speed auto cars in the past (VP Princess R, Rover P5B and a Rover 3500 SD1). It took about 30mins of driving to make me realise how naff it is having to change gear yourself and how awful old auto 3 speed boxes were. |
#124
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Dave Plowman wrote:
Those who insist on only using one foot with an auto are just making work for themselves. Although left foot braking does take a bit of practice. I occasionally drive other peoples' manual cars, don't want to train my feet that way ... |
#125
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On 07/06/2021 21:19, polygonum_on_google wrote:
Are you sure it isn't an automatic parking brake? That releases itself as you accelerate off from stopped. If you put the handbrake on in drive, yes. Otherwise you cant shift the stick back to drive until you've released it. |
#126
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"Andy Burns" wrote in message
... Dave Plowman wrote: Those who insist on only using one foot with an auto are just making work for themselves. Although left foot braking does take a bit of practice. I occasionally drive other peoples' manual cars, don't want to train my feet that way ... Using your right foot only is no more work for your right foot than driving a manual. I work on the principle that you should drive an automatic as much like a manual as possible, omitting the tasks like changing gear and using the clutch, but not changing or adding anything else. Having to adjust between right-foot braking for manual and left-foot for auto is something I would find very difficult. I'm used to braking with my right foot. Why would I want *not* to do that in an auto - apart from the "because you can" factor ;-) |
#127
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On 07/06/2021 18:15, John Rumm wrote:
On 07/06/2021 12:03, R D S wrote: I'm guessing this is why i've been sick of staring at other's brake lights for years, i've probably been behind autos. Or just lazy sods who never thing of the person behind them! I suspect much of both. |
#128
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R D S wrote:
On 07/06/2021 18:15, John Rumm wrote: On 07/06/2021 12:03, R D S wrote: I'm guessing this is why i've been sick of staring at other's brake lights for years, i've probably been behind autos. Or just lazy sods who never thing of the person behind them! I suspect much of both. As explained, my car is designed to keep brake lights on whenever it's stopped in gear, and I don't shift into neutral just for creeping forwards/stopping in traffic. |
#129
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NY wrote:
"Andy Burns" wrote in message ... Dave Plowman wrote: Those who insist on only using one foot with an auto are just making work for themselves. Although left foot braking does take a bit of practice. I occasionally drive other peoples' manual cars, don't want to train my feet that way ... Using your right foot only is no more work for your right foot than driving a manual. That's what I do. What I don't want to do is train my left foot to do braking, too much potential for ****-up. |
#130
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On 08/06/2021 09:56, NY wrote:
Having to adjust between right-foot braking for manual and left-foot for auto is something I would find very difficult. I found it really rather easy -- How fortunate for governments that the people they administer don't think. Adolf Hitler |
#131
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![]() "NY" wrote in message ... "Andy Burns" wrote in message ... Dave Plowman wrote: Those who insist on only using one foot with an auto are just making work for themselves. Although left foot braking does take a bit of practice. I occasionally drive other peoples' manual cars, don't want to train my feet that way ... Using your right foot only is no more work for your right foot than driving a manual. Yes, but a lot more work than using a different foot for each pedal. I work on the principle that you should drive an automatic as much like a manual as possible, omitting the tasks like changing gear and using the clutch, but not changing or adding anything else. Thats mad. Having to adjust between right-foot braking for manual and left-foot for auto is something I would find very difficult. Yes, you are that rigid. I'm used to braking with my right foot. Why would I want *not* to do that in an auto - apart from the "because you can" factor ;-) Because it works better. Even his previous line that if you drive both a manual and an auto quite a bit of the time it might be undesirable in an emergency is rather dubious because if you use your left foot in the manual it will still work fine and the same with using your right foot for the brake in the auto., |
#132
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![]() "Andy Burns" wrote in message ... NY wrote: "Andy Burns" wrote in message ... Dave Plowman wrote: Those who insist on only using one foot with an auto are just making work for themselves. Although left foot braking does take a bit of practice. I occasionally drive other peoples' manual cars, don't want to train my feet that way ... Using your right foot only is no more work for your right foot than driving a manual. That's what I do. What I don't want to do is train my left foot to do braking, too much potential for ****-up. Cant see it can produce a ****up because even if you do the wrong thing in the other type of car it will still work fine. |
#133
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In article ,
Andy Burns wrote: Dave Plowman wrote: Those who insist on only using one foot with an auto are just making work for themselves. Although left foot braking does take a bit of practice. I occasionally drive other peoples' manual cars, don't want to train my feet that way ... I've not found it a problem. At worst, you'll use both feet on the brake in a panic. -- *The average person falls asleep in seven minutes * Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#134
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In article ,
NY wrote: "Andy Burns" wrote in message ... Dave Plowman wrote: Those who insist on only using one foot with an auto are just making work for themselves. Although left foot braking does take a bit of practice. I occasionally drive other peoples' manual cars, don't want to train my feet that way ... Using your right foot only is no more work for your right foot than driving a manual. I work on the principle that you should drive an automatic as much like a manual as possible, omitting the tasks like changing gear and using the clutch, but not changing or adding anything else. Having to adjust between right-foot braking for manual and left-foot for auto is something I would find very difficult. I'm used to braking with my right foot. Why would I want *not* to do that in an auto - apart from the "because you can" factor ;-) Sounds like you've never learned how. There are lots of practical advantages using both feet in an auto. But if you've decided it's not for you, fairy nuff. But not having tried it hardly in a position to be definitive? -- *I went to school to become a wit, only got halfway through. Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#135
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In article ,
Andy Burns wrote: NY wrote: "Andy Burns" wrote in message ... Dave Plowman wrote: Those who insist on only using one foot with an auto are just making work for themselves. Although left foot braking does take a bit of practice. I occasionally drive other peoples' manual cars, don't want to train my feet that way ... Using your right foot only is no more work for your right foot than driving a manual. That's what I do. What I don't want to do is train my left foot to do braking, too much potential for ****-up. Oddly, when most first try it, they find they start off braking too hard. Because with a clutch you slap it down and release gently - rather the reverse of braking. -- *Learn from your parents' mistakes - use birth control. Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#136
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On Tue, 8 Jun 2021 19:37:46 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again: Cant see it can produce a ****up because even if you do the wrong thing in the other type of car it will still work fine. In auto-contradicting mode again, you abnormal senile pest? -- Xeno to senile Rodent: "You're a sad old man Rod, truly sad." MID: |
#137
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"Rod Speed is an entirely modern phenomenon. Essentially, Rod Speed
is an insecure and worthless individual who has discovered he can enhance his own self-esteem in his own eyes by playing "the big, hard man" on the InterNet." https://www.pcreview.co.uk/threads/r...d-faq.2973853/ -- Bod addressing abnormal senile quarreller Rot: "Do you practice arguing with yourself in an empty room?" MID: |
#138
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Dave Plowman wrote:
Andy Burns wrote: What I don't want to do is train my left foot to do braking, too much potential for ****-up. In the same way that my fingers remember all my complex passwords, but my brain doesn't, my feet know how to do emergency braking, without any input from my brain .. ok clearly not ... but that's how it feels. Oddly, when most first try it, they find they start off braking too hard. Yes, whenever I've tried left foot braking, I've made friends with the windscreen. Because with a clutch you slap it down and release gently - rather the reverse of braking. I don't see what's to gain by left-foot breaking, once you have hold assist available? |
#139
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![]() Dave Plowman wrote: There are lots of practical advantages using both feet in an auto. OK, you *do* need to apply the brake with your left foot to make use of launch control ... |
#140
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On 26/05/2021 13:03, R D S wrote:
I'm looking for a car, XC60 2.0 D4 if anyone has any opinions on those. I've never owned an automatic and never wanted one but I test drove one yesterday and while i'm not going to be buying that particular one having driven it i'm wondering if i'd actually prefer an auto. It certainly wasn't like autos of old that i've driven. But if I come back to the idea i'd prefer a manual I can save a couple of grand. Looking for opinions from anyone who's changed sides. Auto, DSG. I have a car that does everything to not get involved with the drudgery of driving. I like it, it's a motorised armchair pulling me from A to B with automatic gears and brakes. I just point it, and switch on the radar equipped cruise control. Automatic handbrake when it comes to a stop. Automatic crawl in traffic if the car in front decides to move forward in the queue. A camera recognises speed signs. Not autopilot on the steering yet, but given that's electric - a few GPIO pins on a raspberry pi should be easy to interface.... (just kiddin') If I feel a bit bored and can afford the fuel, I have a few button options to go manual, wreak the comfort, and enjoy the 'die trying hit'. But then there's the downsides, that all of this is software driven, and there is an AI somewhere. Ye have to be be aware second guessing what it could do next. So my car looks for things in front, and stays a configured distance behind them. Collision avoidance. If the car in front stupidly hits the speed limit and afterwards careers into the suddenly braked car car in front of it, my car gently puts the brakes on, checks if I'm awake, and if not, then slams on the anchors in the middle of the road. Then I presumably get gently awoken to being rear ended by the car behind, while being surrounded by exploding pillows. Nice attention to detail... the next release of the model is said to be much improved, by steering the car to near the pavement. Some people don't like tech - this car would be the source of a million questions "why on earth did it do that?" -- Adrian C |
#141
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Adrian Caspersz wrote:
So my car looks for things in front, and stays a configured distance behind them. Collision avoidance. Mine doesn't have radar cruise control, but it does have a front facing camera under the rear view mirror that looks out for "hazards" When it spots a "hazard" it goes BONG! and flashes up a distracting message on the screen, it has never managed to spot one of these hazards before I did, and the other day as I was pulling around a bend over a humpback bridge, it noticed that I was momentarily aimed towards some pedestrians walking the other way round the bend, so it did a full-on application of ABS, ****ing thing! |
#142
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On 08/06/2021 14:25, Andy Burns wrote:
Adrian Caspersz wrote: So my car looks for things in front, and stays a configured distance behind them. Collision avoidance. Everything I drive does that. However I notice when I'm given a lift in one of my kids' very swanky cars, the feature doesn't seem to work at all. Bill |
#143
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On 08/06/2021 10:06, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 08/06/2021 09:56, NY wrote: Having to adjust between right-foot braking for manual and left-foot for auto is something I would find very difficult. I found it really rather easy I wouldn't have expected anything less from you. |
#144
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On 08/06/2021 13:46, Andy Burns wrote:
Dave Plowman wrote: Andy Burns wrote: What I don't want to do is train my left foot to do braking, too much potential for ****-up. In the same way that my fingers remember all my complex passwords, but my brain doesn't, my feet know how to do emergency braking, without any input from my brain .. ok clearly not ... but that's how it feels. Oddly, when most first try it, they find they start off braking too hard. Yes, whenever I've tried left foot braking, I've made friends with the windscreen. Because with a clutch you slap it down and release gently - rather the reverse of braking. I don't see what's to gain by left-foot breaking, once you have hold assist available? Precise inching and keeping revs up mid corner -- "Women actually are capable of being far more than the feminists will let them." |
#145
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![]() "Andy Burns" wrote in message ... Dave Plowman wrote: Andy Burns wrote: What I don't want to do is train my left foot to do braking, too much potential for ****-up. In the same way that my fingers remember all my complex passwords, but my brain doesn't, my feet know how to do emergency braking, without any input from my brain .. ok clearly not ... but that's how it feels. Oddly, when most first try it, they find they start off braking too hard. Yes, whenever I've tried left foot braking, I've made friends with the windscreen. Because with a clutch you slap it down and release gently - rather the reverse of braking. I don't see what's to gain by left-foot breaking, once you have hold assist available? Works better for tight parking situations and for backing up to the trailer hitch, you dont have to move your feet from one pedal to another particularly with a decent reversing camera which lets you see the trailer hitch and towbar. |
#146
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"Rod Speed" wrote in message
... "Andy Burns" wrote in message ... Dave Plowman wrote: Andy Burns wrote: What I don't want to do is train my left foot to do braking, too much potential for ****-up. In the same way that my fingers remember all my complex passwords, but my brain doesn't, my feet know how to do emergency braking, without any input from my brain .. ok clearly not ... but that's how it feels. Oddly, when most first try it, they find they start off braking too hard. Yes, whenever I've tried left foot braking, I've made friends with the windscreen. Because with a clutch you slap it down and release gently - rather the reverse of braking. I don't see what's to gain by left-foot breaking, once you have hold assist available? Why is hold assist even necessary? It's simple a sop to the people who can't coordinate releasing the handbrake with operating the accelerator (and maybe clutch) pedal. Works better for tight parking situations and for backing up to the trailer hitch, you dont have to move your feet from one pedal to another particularly with a decent reversing camera which lets you see the trailer hitch and towbar. Yes I think we are all agreed that because automatics only have an accelerator and a brake to regulate speed, whereas manuals also have a clutch that can be slipped, *low-speed* *precise* movement is more easily achieved with left-foot braking in an automatic. But is there any advantage in using the left foot to brake in normal driving? Or is it just a case of doing it because you can, rather than for any better reason. I have no problem using the same foot for brake and accelerator in a manual, so I don't see the benefit of using different feet in an automatic. Maybe there's something explanation that I'm missing... OK, so rally drivers resort to heel-and-toe operating the brake and accelerator at the same time, but I'm thinking of normal driving where you brake before the hazard and then accelerate out of it, and so don't need to operate both pedals simultaneously. Given that every automatic I've ever seen, going back to the mid sixties (*), has an extra-wide footbrake pedal, the concept of left-foot braking is something that has been around for a long time with automatics. So in the early days of automatics, someone perceived that there was a benefit of allowing it. I'm trying to work out what that reason was and still is. (*) And probably a lot longer, but I can't comment on cars that were around before I was born and before the earliest that I can remember ;-) |
#147
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![]() "NY" wrote in message ... "Rod Speed" wrote in message ... "Andy Burns" wrote in message ... Dave Plowman wrote: Andy Burns wrote: What I don't want to do is train my left foot to do braking, too much potential for ****-up. In the same way that my fingers remember all my complex passwords, but my brain doesn't, my feet know how to do emergency braking, without any input from my brain .. ok clearly not ... but that's how it feels. Oddly, when most first try it, they find they start off braking too hard. Yes, whenever I've tried left foot braking, I've made friends with the windscreen. Because with a clutch you slap it down and release gently - rather the reverse of braking. I don't see what's to gain by left-foot breaking, once you have hold assist available? Why is hold assist even necessary? No one said it was necessary, its just convenient, like with an auto, cruise control, climate control, central locking etc etc etc. It's simple a sop to the people who can't coordinate releasing the handbrake with operating the accelerator (and maybe clutch) pedal. Its not a sop, its a convenience, like with an auto, cruise control, climate control, central locking etc etc etc. Works better for tight parking situations and for backing up to the trailer hitch, you dont have to move your feet from one pedal to another particularly with a decent reversing camera which lets you see the trailer hitch and towbar. Yes I think we are all agreed that because automatics only have an accelerator and a brake to regulate speed, whereas manuals also have a clutch that can be slipped, *low-speed* *precise* movement is more easily achieved with left-foot braking in an automatic. But is there any advantage in using the left foot to brake in normal driving? Yes, you dont have to move the right foot back to the accelerator when you have finished braking. In spades with inching in a traffic jam. Or is it just a case of doing it because you can, rather than for any better reason. Nope. I have no problem using the same foot for brake and accelerator in a manual, so I don't see the benefit of using different feet in an automatic. That gives you finer control in some situations like inching in traffic jams and when stacked up waiting to turn right thru traffic coming the other way when that junction isnt light controlled and when entering a roundabout. Maybe there's something explanation that I'm missing... See above. OK, so rally drivers resort to heel-and-toe operating the brake and accelerator at the same time, but I'm thinking of normal driving where you brake before the hazard and then accelerate out of it, and so don't need to operate both pedals simultaneously. That isnt the only situation where you use the brakes with normal driving. Given that every automatic I've ever seen, going back to the mid sixties (*), has an extra-wide footbrake pedal, the concept of left-foot braking is something that has been around for a long time with automatics. So in the early days of automatics, someone perceived that there was a benefit of allowing it. I'm trying to work out what that reason was and still is. See above. (*) And probably a lot longer, but I can't comment on cars that were around before I was born and before the earliest that I can remember ;-) Tad radical... |
#148
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On Wed, 9 Jun 2021 06:27:01 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again: FLUSH the trolling senile asshole's latest troll**** unread -- Senile Rodent about himself: "I was involved in the design of a computer OS" MID: LOL!!!!! |
#149
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On 08/06/2021 15:28, williamwright wrote:
On 08/06/2021 14:25, Andy Burns wrote: Adrian Caspersz wrote: So my car looks for things in front, and stays a configured distance behind them. Collision avoidance. Everything I drive does that. However I notice when I'm given a lift in one of my kids' very swanky cars, the feature doesn't seem to work at all. A vital component in most cars including the latest, is the nut just behind the steering wheel :-) -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
#150
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In article , Andy Burns
writes Dave Plowman wrote: Andy Burns wrote: What I don't want to do is train my left foot to do braking, too much potential for ****-up. In the same way that my fingers remember all my complex passwords, but my brain doesn't, my feet know how to do emergency braking, without any input from my brain .. ok clearly not ... but that's how it feels. Oddly, when most first try it, they find they start off braking too hard. Yes, whenever I've tried left foot braking, I've made friends with the windscreen. Because with a clutch you slap it down and release gently - rather the reverse of braking. I don't see what's to gain by left-foot breaking, once you have hold assist available? I've never had hold assist and have never used left foot breaking and have driven probably about 10 different vehicles with autos. -- bert |
#151
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On 08/06/2021 20:45, NY wrote:
Yes I think we are all agreed that because automatics only have an accelerator and a brake to regulate speed, whereas manuals also have a clutch that can be slipped, *low-speed* *precise* movement is more easily achieved with left-foot braking in an automatic. Good. That is one HUGE advantage of it. But is there any advantage in using the left foot to brake in normal driving? Or is it just a case of doing it because you can, rather than for any better reason. I have no problem using the same foot for brake and accelerator in a manual, so I don't see the benefit of using different feet in an automatic. Maybe there's something explanation that I'm missing... Well lets say that you can speed up reactions by maybe a couple of hundred milliseconds, if your left foot is poised over the brake. And it *used* to be a very good way to manually (pedally? ) control the auto box - police drivers back in the day were taught to use it to get best performance (and destroy the brakes) of their auto cars These days with complex software, flappy paddles and different gearbox modes, it's less of an issue OK, so rally drivers resort to heel-and-toe operating the brake and accelerator at the same time, but I'm thinking of normal driving where you brake before the hazard and then accelerate out of it, and so don't need to operate both pedals simultaneously. They do that - or did that - to speed up the gear change especially with straight cut non synchro boxes. These days gear changes are automatic. I remember the lap record of all time being broken in a Williams Turbo car by keke rosberg. I was there watching him *coast*, with the clutch down, round Club Corner at about 140mph, blipping the throttle to keep the turbos spun up before dropping the clutch and mashing the go pedal. People who learnt ways to keep boost up - Senna was another - did well in that era. Given that every automatic I've ever seen, going back to the mid sixties (*), has an extra-wide footbrake pedal, the concept of left-foot braking is something that has been around for a long time with automatics. So in the early days of automatics, someone perceived that there was a benefit of allowing it. I'm trying to work out what that reason was and still is. You should ask yourself why anyone thought it was a good ideas to have three pedals when you only have two feet. Left foot braking is becoming - apart for precision parking - far less a necessity and far more proscribed by software in modern cars. Back in the late 80s when I got my first auto, it was very useful. Now its a pain because the software detects it and sulks -- A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes. |
#152
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In article , bert writes
In article , Andy Burns writes Dave Plowman wrote: Andy Burns wrote: What I don't want to do is train my left foot to do braking, too much potential for ****-up. In the same way that my fingers remember all my complex passwords, but my brain doesn't, my feet know how to do emergency braking, without any input from my brain .. ok clearly not ... but that's how it feels. Oddly, when most first try it, they find they start off braking too hard. Yes, whenever I've tried left foot braking, I've made friends with the windscreen. Because with a clutch you slap it down and release gently - rather the reverse of braking. I don't see what's to gain by left-foot breaking, once you have hold assist available? I've never had hold assist and have never used left foot breaking and have driven probably about 10 different vehicles with autos. "Never" is not strictly true. Use it offroading in autos to keep control on steep down hills when engine braking isn't enough. -- bert |
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