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Default OT: Manual or automatic gearbox? and XC60 opinion...

I'm looking for a car, XC60 2.0 D4 if anyone has any opinions on those.

I've never owned an automatic and never wanted one but I test drove one
yesterday and while i'm not going to be buying that particular one
having driven it i'm wondering if i'd actually prefer an auto. It
certainly wasn't like autos of old that i've driven.

But if I come back to the idea i'd prefer a manual I can save a couple
of grand.

Looking for opinions from anyone who's changed sides.
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Default OT: Manual or automatic gearbox? and XC60 opinion...

On Wed, 26 May 2021 13:03:07 +0100, R D S wrote:

I'm looking for a car, XC60 2.0 D4 if anyone has any opinions on those.

I've never owned an automatic and never wanted one but I test drove one
yesterday and while i'm not going to be buying that particular one
having driven it i'm wondering if i'd actually prefer an auto. It
certainly wasn't like autos of old that i've driven.

But if I come back to the idea i'd prefer a manual I can save a couple
of grand.

Looking for opinions from anyone who's changed sides.


Automatic, I have had autos since 1969. Previous Zodiacs, Rovers and
Jaguars were all manual.
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Default OT: Manual or automatic gearbox? and XC60 opinion...

On 26/05/2021 13:03, R D S wrote:
I'm looking for a car, XC60 2.0 D4 if anyone has any opinions on those.

I've never owned an automatic and never wanted one but I test drove one
yesterday and while i'm not going to be buying that particular one
having driven it i'm wondering if i'd actually prefer an auto. It
certainly wasn't like autos of old that i've driven.

But if I come back to the idea i'd prefer a manual I can save a couple
of grand.

Looking for opinions from anyone who's changed sides.


Electric cars are all the rage; they don't need gears. Also steam cars.
The Stanley Steamer was very good. Curse Benz and his "gas" engine!

Seriously, the only automatic car I've driven was a (grossly
underpowered) Metro, many years ago. What was different about the one
you tried?

--
Max Demian
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Default OT: Manual or automatic gearbox? and XC60 opinion...

On 2021-05-26 12:03:07 +0000, R D S said:

I'm looking for a car, XC60 2.0 D4 if anyone has any opinions on those.

I've never owned an automatic and never wanted one but I test drove one
yesterday and while i'm not going to be buying that particular one
having driven it i'm wondering if i'd actually prefer an auto. It
certainly wasn't like autos of old that i've driven.

But if I come back to the idea i'd prefer a manual I can save a couple
of grand.

Looking for opinions from anyone who's changed sides.


My wife only has an auto driving licence so I have been forced to buy autos.

We've had two Volvo V70s and the auto boxes are fine - the current one
has geartronic which allows you to shift gears manually so that keeps
me reasonably happy. Plus the 2.5 litre turbo engine...

I would get a petrol not diesel - I've never had a diesel.

But our current Volvo is a 2005 model - no idea about recent ones
except they are costly. I've never paid more than £3500 for a car.

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Default OT: Manual or automatic gearbox? and XC60 opinion...

In article ,
R D S wrote:
I'm looking for a car, XC60 2.0 D4 if anyone has any opinions on those.


I've never owned an automatic and never wanted one but I test drove one
yesterday and while i'm not going to be buying that particular one
having driven it i'm wondering if i'd actually prefer an auto. It
certainly wasn't like autos of old that i've driven.


But if I come back to the idea i'd prefer a manual I can save a couple
of grand.


Looking for opinions from anyone who's changed sides.


I had a 2nd hand auto in the '80s. When I could afford it, I went back to
manual. However, since SWMBO has an auto. I got an auto 8 years ago so
that she could share long distance driving. She never has, but I'm very
happy with my current (Mazda) auto - no think required.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle


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Default OT: Manual or automatic gearbox? and XC60 opinion...

In article , R D S writes
I'm looking for a car, XC60 2.0 D4 if anyone has any opinions on those.

I've never owned an automatic and never wanted one but I test drove one
yesterday and while i'm not going to be buying that particular one
having driven it i'm wondering if i'd actually prefer an auto. It
certainly wasn't like autos of old that i've driven.

But if I come back to the idea i'd prefer a manual I can save a couple
of grand.

Looking for opinions from anyone who's changed sides.

I prefer autos, definitely. They've improved immensely. There are of
course different types now but the principle is the same. 90% of the
time in a manual your responses are dictated to you by engine road speed
and desire to accelerate or otherwise.
I've had auto 1100, Daf 44, metro, Polo, Renault 5, Volvo 740, 940, VW
Transporter, Jeep Cherokee and Grand Cherokee, Defender V8, Suzuki Alto.

When you drive one regularly you realise just how automatic driving a
manual actually is and you get rid of all that pointless left foot down
up work and gear changing actually is.
Favourite was probably the DAF with its CVR system. I was reading up on
Suburus recently and couldn't believe that they have actually gone to
the trouble of building in step functions into their CVR system to make
it feel like a "normal" automatic. The customer reviews slated it.

But it is down to personal choice in the end. Don't think the question
arises with EVs
--
bert
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Default OT: Manual or automatic gearbox? and XC60 opinion...

On 26/05/2021 13:03, R D S wrote:
I'm looking for a car, XC60 2.0 D4 if anyone has any opinions on those.

I've never owned an automatic and never wanted one but I test drove one
yesterday and while i'm not going to be buying that particular one
having driven it i'm wondering if i'd actually prefer an auto. It
certainly wasn't like autos of old that i've driven.

But if I come back to the idea i'd prefer a manual I can save a couple
of grand.

Looking for opinions from anyone who's changed sides.


Autos are good if you spend a lot of time in slow moving city traffic.
Almost pointless if motorways are all you do.

--
Cheers
Clive
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Default OT: Manual or automatic gearbox? and XC60 opinion...

On 26/05/2021 13:26, Max Demian wrote:
Seriously, the only automatic car I've driven was a (grossly
underpowered) Metro, many years ago. What was different about the one
you tried?

It was smooth and responsive and went like stink.
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Default OT: Manual or automatic gearbox? and XC60 opinion...

On 26/05/2021 13:29, John Smith wrote:

But our current Volvo is a 2005 model - no idea about recent ones except
they are costly. I've never paid more than £3500 for a car.


All ours have been under 7k and we tend to keeo them for 4-5 years
before changing.

This one is 15k (missus wants something 'nice') so it has to be right.
How people shell out much more than that is beyond me.
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Default OT: Manual or automatic gearbox? and XC60 opinion...

On 26/05/2021 13:03, R D S wrote:
I'm looking for a car, XC60 2.0 D4 if anyone has any opinions on those.

I've never owned an automatic and never wanted one but I test drove one
yesterday and while i'm not going to be buying that particular one
having driven it i'm wondering if i'd actually prefer an auto. It
certainly wasn't like autos of old that i've driven.

But if I come back to the idea i'd prefer a manual I can save a couple
of grand.

Looking for opinions from anyone who's changed sides.


I am more or less 'all auto' since about 2008 and 50 50 since 2000
largely because manual Jaguars disappeared completely.

First of all one is not 'better' than the other. That's binary Boolean
ArtStudent„¢ thinking.

There are pros and cons. Some of which can be addressed by a different
driving style.

The great plus of a manual is that you can *put* it in the right gear
for what you are doing, and then there is no downshift lag.

The great plus of an automatic is that for people who haven't a clue
what the correct gear is, it makes a reasonable guess.

Another great plus of an automatic, is that power assisted clutch pedals
never caught on, and in heavy traffic or urban streets, you are not
wanking your left leg off operating a heavy clutch

What this boils down to is that you have better control in a manual, but
its a darned sight more relaxing to drive an auto. They also protect
your engine from being overrevved in low gears.

And in the limit they have manual override these days if you are in a
tearing rush

A friend of mine - getting on - smashed his auto while reversing it up a
steep slope - no clutch control available. I told him that I use the
brake as a clutch for that. It works. Change of style is indicated and
left foot braking

Each auto needs a slighhtl;y diferent technique to get it to do what YOU
want it todo rather wthan what it thinks it should be doing. I am still
working on te top strategy ffor my XF. My old means of hgetting a speedy
getaway - revving with foot on brake - is not good, as it leads to
hiccups in the engine management system and warning lights on te dash if
you do too much brake and accelerator

Manual mode seems a bit better



--
"The great thing about Glasgow is that if there's a nuclear attack it'll
look exactly the same afterwards."

Billy Connolly


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Default OT: Manual or automatic gearbox? and XC60 opinion...

On 2021-05-26 13:01:35 +0000, R D S said:

On 26/05/2021 13:29, John Smith wrote:

But our current Volvo is a 2005 model - no idea about recent ones
except they are costly. I've never paid more than £3500 for a car.


All ours have been under 7k and we tend to keeo them for 4-5 years
before changing.

This one is 15k (missus wants something 'nice') so it has to be right.
How people shell out much more than that is beyond me.


Indeed.

See if you can find a geartronic model - I think some also have
steering wheel paddles to shift gear so you can pretend to be Lewis
Hamilton.

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Default OT: Manual or automatic gearbox? and XC60 opinion...

On Wed, 26 May 2021 13:46:42 +0100, Clive Arthur wrote:

On 26/05/2021 13:03, R D S wrote:
I'm looking for a car, XC60 2.0 D4 if anyone has any opinions on those.

I've never owned an automatic and never wanted one but I test drove one
yesterday and while i'm not going to be buying that particular one
having driven it i'm wondering if i'd actually prefer an auto. It
certainly wasn't like autos of old that i've driven.

But if I come back to the idea i'd prefer a manual I can save a couple
of grand.

Looking for opinions from anyone who's changed sides.


Autos are good if you spend a lot of time in slow moving city traffic.
Almost pointless if motorways are all you do.



It makes no difference on motorways, not having to change gear.
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Default OT: Manual or automatic gearbox? and XC60 opinion...

On 26/05/2021 14:10, John Smith wrote:
On 2021-05-26 13:01:35 +0000, R D S said:

On 26/05/2021 13:29, John Smith wrote:

But our current Volvo is a 2005 model - no idea about recent ones
except they are costly. I've never paid more than £3500 for a car.


All ours have been under 7k and we tend to keeo them for 4-5 years
before changing.

This one is 15k (missus wants something 'nice') so it has to be right.
How people shell out much more than that is beyond me.


Indeed.

See if you can find a geartronic model - I think some also have steering
wheel paddles to shift gear so you can pretend to be Lewis Hamilton.

the last three cars I have bought - freelanders and jaguar xf, have had
very easily avaiable manual mode. On the freelandar simply move the
lever over to sport mode, and then shifty up and down by pushing
forwards and backwards. Exit by going out of sport mode. The XF has
flappy paddles that override the auto box in normal mode. If not used
for a while it reverts to full auto. But other gearbox modes are
available - winter' 'performance;' and 'sport' which behave differently.
I like that - those wanting to tailor the way the auto behaves or
overriide it, can, otherwise its ok in standard mode]



--
"Nature does not give up the winter because people dislike the cold."

ۥ Confucius
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Default OT: Manual or automatic gearbox? and XC60 opinion...

In article ,
R D S wrote:
I'm looking for a car, XC60 2.0 D4 if anyone has any opinions on those.


I've never owned an automatic and never wanted one but I test drove one
yesterday and while i'm not going to be buying that particular one
having driven it i'm wondering if i'd actually prefer an auto. It
certainly wasn't like autos of old that i've driven.


But if I come back to the idea i'd prefer a manual I can save a couple
of grand.


Looking for opinions from anyone who's changed sides.


There is little comparison between autos of old and the best modern ones.

Up until about 40 years ago, they were commonly three speed with a torque
convertor. This slowed the same car down over a manual, and increased the
fuel consumption. Only really reasonably satisfactory in a large engined
car.

There are basically two types today. The same idea epicyclic box with
torque converter but many more ratios. 8 not being uncommon. With the
power lossy TC locked out for much of the time - really just used for
moving off from rest. All computer controlled.

The second one is a robotised manual synchromesh box with a conventional
but automatic clutch. The most efficient in terms of MPG and performance.
The better versions of this idea use effectively two gearboxes and
clutches. One gearbox has the odd gears, the other the even. And changing
between say 1st to 2nd is done by swapping the clutches. When the car is
in 2nd gear, the other box has selected 3rd, and the process repeated.
This arrangement can give a virtually seamless power flow under pretty
well all conditions.

--
wife.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
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Default OT: Manual or automatic gearbox? and XC60 opinion...

In article ,
Clive Arthur wrote:
On 26/05/2021 13:03, R D S wrote:
I'm looking for a car, XC60 2.0 D4 if anyone has any opinions on those.

I've never owned an automatic and never wanted one but I test drove one
yesterday and while i'm not going to be buying that particular one
having driven it i'm wondering if i'd actually prefer an auto. It
certainly wasn't like autos of old that i've driven.

But if I come back to the idea i'd prefer a manual I can save a couple
of grand.

Looking for opinions from anyone who's changed sides.


Autos are good if you spend a lot of time in slow moving city traffic.
Almost pointless if motorways are all you do.


Not so sure about that. With an auto, you can use a very tall top gear to
get the very best MPG. So tall that it may have to change down on a
motorway incline. Very few manuals are that high geared.

--
*If you try to fail and succeed, which have you done? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.


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Default OT: Manual or automatic gearbox? and XC60 opinion...

On Wed, 26 May 2021 14:30:47 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
R D S wrote:
I'm looking for a car, XC60 2.0 D4 if anyone has any opinions on those.


I've never owned an automatic and never wanted one but I test drove one
yesterday and while i'm not going to be buying that particular one
having driven it i'm wondering if i'd actually prefer an auto. It
certainly wasn't like autos of old that i've driven.


But if I come back to the idea i'd prefer a manual I can save a couple
of grand.


Looking for opinions from anyone who's changed sides.


There is little comparison between autos of old and the best modern
ones.

Up until about 40 years ago, they were commonly three speed with a
torque convertor. This slowed the same car down over a manual, and
increased the fuel consumption. Only really reasonably satisfactory in a
large engined car.

There are basically two types today. The same idea epicyclic box with
torque converter but many more ratios. 8 not being uncommon. With the
power lossy TC locked out for much of the time - really just used for
moving off from rest. All computer controlled.

The second one is a robotised manual synchromesh box with a conventional
but automatic clutch. The most efficient in terms of MPG and
performance.
The better versions of this idea use effectively two gearboxes and
clutches. One gearbox has the odd gears, the other the even. And
changing between say 1st to 2nd is done by swapping the clutches. When
the car is in 2nd gear, the other box has selected 3rd, and the process
repeated. This arrangement can give a virtually seamless power flow
under pretty well all conditions.


My Golf R does that.
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Default OT: Manual or automatic gearbox? and XC60 opinion...

On 26/05/2021 14:30, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

snip

One gearbox has the odd gears, the other the even. And changing
between say 1st to 2nd is done by swapping the clutches. When the car is
in 2nd gear, the other box has selected 3rd, and the process repeated.
This arrangement can give a virtually seamless power flow under pretty
well all conditions.


A friend of mine remarked how dangerous these were.

Lets suppose you want instant power, with a manual you can anticipate
how long it takes to go from say 3rd to 2nd gear.

On one of these the gearboxes the parallel box will be sitting in 4th
gear, and so has to make the relevant movements to go into second before
operating the clutch. Thus maybe sitting on the wrong side of the road
whilst wanting to pass a slow vehicle for much longer than expected.

This was his take and I confess not to ever having driven one.


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Default OT: Manual or automatic gearbox? and XC60 opinion...

In article ,
Max Demian wrote:
Seriously, the only automatic car I've driven was a (grossly
underpowered) Metro, many years ago. What was different about the one
you tried?


It's interesting when you try the same auto with engine options.

Best contrast I can think of was the P6 Rover, made between about the mid
60s to mid 70s. Both versions pretty well the same auto gearbox.

The four cylinder 2000 auto one of the slowest accelerating cars on the
road. A real dog. The 2000 manual not too bad, but needed to be revved for
decent performance.

The V8 3500 auto, very lively.

--
*Haunted French pancakes give me the crepes.*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
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Default OT: Manual or automatic gearbox? and XC60 opinion...

On Wed, 26 May 2021 12:22:17 -0000 (UTC), jon wrote:

On Wed, 26 May 2021 13:03:07 +0100, R D S wrote:

I'm looking for a car, XC60 2.0 D4 if anyone has any opinions on those.

I've never owned an automatic and never wanted one but I test drove one
yesterday and while i'm not going to be buying that particular one
having driven it i'm wondering if i'd actually prefer an auto. It
certainly wasn't like autos of old that i've driven.

But if I come back to the idea i'd prefer a manual I can save a couple
of grand.

Looking for opinions from anyone who's changed sides.


Automatic, I have had autos since 1969. Previous Zodiacs, Rovers and
Jaguars were all manual.


I've been driving autos on and off for something like 50 years. I
passed the test on a manual but my dad had a Triumph 2000 auto which
he let me drive (!).

Those early one were Borg Warner 3-speed jobs. Easy to drive but very
little control over the box which meant it took a while sometimes to
work out what gear it needed.

Then I started visiting family in the USA; no choice there and the
Borg Warner type boxes combined with lazy US cars required a different
driving style. There was one in the late 1990s that I took from Denver
into Yellowstone Park and coming out of the park over the "Beartooth
Highway" there was a long, long descent and I realised that the only
low gear I had access to was the lowest so I had to stop on the way
down to allow brakes to cool!

For a long time I had manuals but then my wife got a Subaru Justy (I
think that was it) with an auto box and 4WD. All she really wanted was
the auto. Her work as a Health Visitor meant quite a lot of short
distance driving between clients to which the auto was well suited.

These days I have a Yeti auto on a diesel engine. 6 gears, two auto
selections - Drive and Sport plus the ability to select individual
gears (but only 1 up/down, no changing through 2 gears in one move).
My wife drives a Jazz with a CVT box with paddle changers that
(nominally) provide access to 7 gears. I much prefer the VW/Yeti box
which allows me the freedom not to HAVE to think about gears and to
concentrate on the road. It's not perfect in auto mode but it's pretty
clever changing down, for instance, as you slow.

I will/can dive an auto but I've come to recognise the benefits in
recent years.
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Default OT: Manual or automatic gearbox? and XC60 opinion...

On Wed, 26 May 2021 15:22:30 +0100, Graham Harrison wrote:

On Wed, 26 May 2021 12:22:17 -0000 (UTC), jon wrote:

On Wed, 26 May 2021 13:03:07 +0100, R D S wrote:

I'm looking for a car, XC60 2.0 D4 if anyone has any opinions on
those.

I've never owned an automatic and never wanted one but I test drove
one yesterday and while i'm not going to be buying that particular one
having driven it i'm wondering if i'd actually prefer an auto. It
certainly wasn't like autos of old that i've driven.

But if I come back to the idea i'd prefer a manual I can save a couple
of grand.

Looking for opinions from anyone who's changed sides.


Automatic, I have had autos since 1969. Previous Zodiacs, Rovers and
Jaguars were all manual.


I've been driving autos on and off for something like 50 years. I passed
the test on a manual but my dad had a Triumph 2000 auto which he let me
drive (!).

Those early one were Borg Warner 3-speed jobs. Easy to drive but very
little control over the box which meant it took a while sometimes to
work out what gear it needed.

Then I started visiting family in the USA; no choice there and the Borg
Warner type boxes combined with lazy US cars required a different
driving style. There was one in the late 1990s that I took from Denver
into Yellowstone Park and coming out of the park over the "Beartooth
Highway" there was a long, long descent and I realised that the only low
gear I had access to was the lowest so I had to stop on the way down to
allow brakes to cool!

For a long time I had manuals but then my wife got a Subaru Justy (I
think that was it) with an auto box and 4WD. All she really wanted was
the auto. Her work as a Health Visitor meant quite a lot of short
distance driving between clients to which the auto was well suited.

These days I have a Yeti auto on a diesel engine. 6 gears, two auto
selections - Drive and Sport plus the ability to select individual gears
(but only 1 up/down, no changing through 2 gears in one move). My wife
drives a Jazz with a CVT box with paddle changers that (nominally)
provide access to 7 gears. I much prefer the VW/Yeti box which allows me
the freedom not to HAVE to think about gears and to concentrate on the
road. It's not perfect in auto mode but it's pretty clever changing
down, for instance, as you slow.

I will/can dive an auto but I've come to recognise the benefits in
recent years.


In the sixties the Met Police in London changed over to automatic
gearboxes to save on clutch replacement costs and driver fatigue. I heard
that over 600 gear changes was common for a shift.


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Default OT: Manual or automatic gearbox? and XC60 opinion...

On 26/05/2021 14:30, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
R D S wrote:
I'm looking for a car, XC60 2.0 D4 if anyone has any opinions on those.


I've never owned an automatic and never wanted one but I test drove one
yesterday and while i'm not going to be buying that particular one
having driven it i'm wondering if i'd actually prefer an auto. It
certainly wasn't like autos of old that i've driven.


But if I come back to the idea i'd prefer a manual I can save a couple
of grand.


Looking for opinions from anyone who's changed sides.


There is little comparison between autos of old and the best modern ones.

Up until about 40 years ago, they were commonly three speed with a torque
convertor. This slowed the same car down over a manual, and increased the
fuel consumption. Only really reasonably satisfactory in a large engined
car.

There are basically two types today. The same idea epicyclic box with
torque converter but many more ratios. 8 not being uncommon. With the
power lossy TC locked out for much of the time - really just used for
moving off from rest. All computer controlled.

The second one is a robotised manual synchromesh box with a conventional
but automatic clutch. The most efficient in terms of MPG and performance.
The better versions of this idea use effectively two gearboxes and
clutches. One gearbox has the odd gears, the other the even. And changing
between say 1st to 2nd is done by swapping the clutches. When the car is
in 2nd gear, the other box has selected 3rd, and the process repeated.
This arrangement can give a virtually seamless power flow under pretty
well all conditions.

There's also the CVT type as found in small Hondas. Very nice indeed,
especially in town or heavy motorway traffic.
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Default OT: Manual or automatic gearbox? and XC60 opinion...

On Wed, 26 May 2021 14:56:10 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
Max Demian wrote:
Seriously, the only automatic car I've driven was a (grossly
underpowered) Metro, many years ago. What was different about the one
you tried?


It's interesting when you try the same auto with engine options.

Best contrast I can think of was the P6 Rover, made between about the
mid 60s to mid 70s. Both versions pretty well the same auto gearbox.

The four cylinder 2000 auto one of the slowest accelerating cars on the
road. A real dog. The 2000 manual not too bad, but needed to be revved
for decent performance.

The V8 3500 auto, very lively.


At one time I had a Rover 105R, it had a lever coming out of the dashboard
with a button on it. Press the button to operate a pneumatic clutch and
move the lever into drive, then it changed up automatically. Unfortunately
sometimes when overtaking at speed it would change down unexpectedly
blasting a big cloud of black smoke behind.
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Default OT: Manual or automatic gearbox? and XC60 opinion...

newshound wrote in
:

On 26/05/2021 14:30, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
R D S wrote:
I'm looking for a car, XC60 2.0 D4 if anyone has any opinions on
those.


I drive a Hybrid. I think of it as an electrically enabled automatic! A
Pwer Split planetary gear shares power between motor and engine. No clutch
- no changes. I love it.
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Default OT: Manual or automatic gearbox? and XC60 opinion...

JohnP wrote:
I drive a Hybrid. I think of it as an electrically enabled automatic! A
Pwer Split planetary gear shares power between motor and engine. No clutch
- no changes. I love it.


+1

Having driven three versions of Toyotas:
- computer controlled clutch 'semi-auto'
- CVT auto
- hybrid e-CVT

The e-CVT is a lot smoother, and the advantage is it can combine motor and
engine for extra acceleration grunt when you need it.

A manual would be a substantial retrograde step IMHO.

Theo
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Default OT: Manual or automatic gearbox? and XC60 opinion...

On 26/05/2021 14:10, John Smith wrote:
On 2021-05-26 13:01:35 +0000, R D S said:

On 26/05/2021 13:29, John Smith wrote:

But our current Volvo is a 2005 model - no idea about recent ones
except they are costly. I've never paid more than £3500 for a car.


All ours have been under 7k and we tend to keeo them for 4-5 years
before changing.

This one is 15k (missus wants something 'nice') so it has to be right.
How people shell out much more than that is beyond me.


Indeed.

See if you can find a geartronic model - I think some also have steering
wheel paddles to shift gear so you can pretend to be Lewis Hamilton.


It was a geartronic I drove.
There's so much traffic around these parts these days you end up with
clutch foot ache.
Didn't think i'd like an auto but was very pleased and now having a
complete rethink, plus as stated elsewhere, no more clutch replacement.

Headache if the box goes kaput though!

As an aside, it was interesting when I almost launched everyone through
the windscreen the first time I wanted to stop it and my left foot
instinctively went for the clutch and found the brake.


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Default OT: Manual or automatic gearbox? and XC60 opinion...

In article ,
Fredxx wrote:
On 26/05/2021 14:30, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:


snip


One gearbox has the odd gears, the other the even. And changing
between say 1st to 2nd is done by swapping the clutches. When the car is
in 2nd gear, the other box has selected 3rd, and the process repeated.
This arrangement can give a virtually seamless power flow under pretty
well all conditions.


A friend of mine remarked how dangerous these were.


He's a nutcase, then.

Lets suppose you want instant power, with a manual you can anticipate
how long it takes to go from say 3rd to 2nd gear.


As you can also with modern autos.

On one of these the gearboxes the parallel box will be sitting in 4th
gear, and so has to make the relevant movements to go into second before
operating the clutch. Thus maybe sitting on the wrong side of the road
whilst wanting to pass a slow vehicle for much longer than expected.


It kicks down far quicker than the average driver can manage with a manual
box. If you see a gap that allows you to overtake, you have to change down
in a manual. This takes more time than it takes an auto to change down by
flooring the pedal. On either, you can grind along in a low gear waiting
for the opportunity to overtake.

This was his take and I confess not to ever having driven one.


I doubt he has either.

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Default OT: Manual or automatic gearbox? and XC60 opinion...

In article ,
jon wrote:
In the sixties the Met Police in London changed over to automatic
gearboxes to save on clutch replacement costs and driver fatigue. I heard
that over 600 gear changes was common for a shift.


Yup. Ambulances are generally auto too.

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In article ,
jon wrote:
At one time I had a Rover 105R, it had a lever coming out of the
dashboard with a button on it. Press the button to operate a pneumatic
clutch and move the lever into drive, then it changed up automatically.
Unfortunately sometimes when overtaking at speed it would change down
unexpectedly blasting a big cloud of black smoke behind.


Two speed manual box fitted with an automatic overdrive, and torque
converter. Dunno why Rover bothered, as autos had been around for some
time. It could be the P4 didn't have room for one, being a rather old
design with a chassis.

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Default OT: Manual or automatic gearbox? and XC60 opinion...

In article ,
R D S wrote:
On 26/05/2021 14:10, John Smith wrote:
On 2021-05-26 13:01:35 +0000, R D S said:

On 26/05/2021 13:29, John Smith wrote:

But our current Volvo is a 2005 model - no idea about recent ones
except they are costly. I've never paid more than £3500 for a car.

All ours have been under 7k and we tend to keeo them for 4-5 years
before changing.

This one is 15k (missus wants something 'nice') so it has to be right.
How people shell out much more than that is beyond me.


Indeed.

See if you can find a geartronic model - I think some also have steering
wheel paddles to shift gear so you can pretend to be Lewis Hamilton.


It was a geartronic I drove.
There's so much traffic around these parts these days you end up with
clutch foot ache.
Didn't think i'd like an auto but was very pleased and now having a
complete rethink, plus as stated elsewhere, no more clutch replacement.


Headache if the box goes kaput though!


As an aside, it was interesting when I almost launched everyone through
the windscreen the first time I wanted to stop it and my left foot
instinctively went for the clutch and found the brake.


The twin clutch/layshaft boxes are pretty pricey, and I'm told not easy to
fix, unlike conventional autos.

But on the forum for mine, I've not heard of any failures. Unlike clutches
on the manual version.

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Default OT: Manual or automatic gearbox? and XC60 opinion...

On 26/05/2021 13:03, R D S wrote:

I'm looking for a car, XC60 2.0 D4 if anyone has any opinions on those.


I know someone with one - he rather liked it, although was less
impressed when it developed a gearbox fault and Volvo wanted north of 5K
to fix it!

I've never owned an automatic and never wanted one but I test drove one
yesterday and while i'm not going to be buying that particular one
having driven it i'm wondering if i'd actually prefer an auto. It
certainly wasn't like autos of old that i've driven.

But if I come back to the idea i'd prefer a manual I can save a couple
of grand.

Looking for opinions from anyone who's changed sides.


Historically I have always favoured a manual, but the last time I was
looking for a car I could only get what I wanted with an auto.

In the past I had driven other people's 3 speed autos and did not really
like them. However the one I got has a more modern 5 speed "tiptronic"
style box with various modes including "full manual" shift as one
option, and it has to be said its a world apart from the autos of old.

(I would expect a more modern auto to be even better - mine is now an
older genration design since its in a 2003 2L twin scroll turbo Subaru
Legacy GT).

It has several modes - Eco (supposed to make it more economical at the
expense of a more "lazy" shifting routine) - I never use it since it
makes it a bit less responsive and makes little if any difference to the
fuel consumption. Normal mode is ok for day to day stuff and nice in
heavy traffic, and quite intelligent at changing down when it needs to.
Sport mode is like normal but down shifts more readily, and gives more
engine braking assist.

Then full manual where you can nudge the stick up and down, or use
buttons on the wheel. That is good on the twisty turny stuff for having
a bit more fun or for terrifying unsuspecting passengers (it looks like
a family estate, but goes, stops, and changes direction quite unlike
one! :-)

You can also use the button on the wheel in normal or eco modes to
temporarily override the car's choice of gear. That is a bit of a mixed
blessing - in some cases its really nice - like descending a steep hill
you can just nudge the gear up and down to control the speed, or get a
bit more feel and control from a lower gear going into a corner. At
other times it tries to be a bit too clever and ends up second guessing
what you want.

So all in all, I would be happy to have another, and might even choose
one (manuals are harder to find and more expensive on JDM scoobies), but
there are a few pros and cons depending on the driving you are doing.




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Cheers,

John.

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Default OT: Manual or automatic gearbox? and XC60 opinion...

Fredxx wrote:
On 26/05/2021 14:30, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

snip

One gearbox has the odd gears, the other the even. And changing
between say 1st to 2nd is done by swapping the clutches. When the car is
in 2nd gear, the other box has selected 3rd, and the process repeated.
This arrangement can give a virtually seamless power flow under pretty
well all conditions.


A friend of mine remarked how dangerous these were.

Lets suppose you want instant power, with a manual you can anticipate
how long it takes to go from say 3rd to 2nd gear.

On one of these the gearboxes the parallel box will be sitting in 4th
gear, and so has to make the relevant movements to go into second before
operating the clutch. Thus maybe sitting on the wrong side of the road
whilst wanting to pass a slow vehicle for much longer than expected.

This was his take and I confess not to ever having driven one.




You friend is an idiot. ;-)

These boxes can change so quickly that in practice, they can drop gears and
accelerated faster than you could in a manual. No need to press the
clutch, pick a gear, let the clutch out again etc, just stomp the go pedal.

Tim

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Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

There is little comparison between autos of old and the best modern ones.

Up until about 40 years ago, they were commonly three speed with a torque
convertor. This slowed the same car down over a manual, and increased the
fuel consumption. Only really reasonably satisfactory in a large engined
car.

There are basically two types today. The same idea epicyclic box with
torque converter but many more ratios. 8 not being uncommon. With the
power lossy TC locked out for much of the time - really just used for
moving off from rest. All computer controlled.

The second one is a robotised manual synchromesh box with a conventional
but automatic clutch. The most efficient in terms of MPG and performance.
The better versions of this idea use effectively two gearboxes and
clutches. One gearbox has the odd gears, the other the even. And changing
between say 1st to 2nd is done by swapping the clutches. When the car is
in 2nd gear, the other box has selected 3rd, and the process repeated.
This arrangement can give a virtually seamless power flow under pretty
well all conditions.


My first automatic was a 2009 Mondeo which I believe had a torque
converter, and I am now running a 2016 Mondeo which I think is
the twin clutch type, and has flappy paddles, should I choose to
use them, which is pretty seldom.

Both simply worked, gave me sufficient performance for my needs,
and they were both pretty smooth in operation. I guess the only
time I really get my foot hard to the floor is towing the caravan
onto a slip road.

Chris
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Default OT: Manual or automatic gearbox? and XC60 opinion...

On 26/05/2021 13:03, R D S wrote:
I'm looking for a car, XC60 2.0 D4 if anyone has any opinions on those.

I've never owned an automatic and never wanted one but I test drove one
yesterday and while i'm not going to be buying that particular one
having driven it i'm wondering if i'd actually prefer an auto. It
certainly wasn't like autos of old that i've driven.

But if I come back to the idea i'd prefer a manual I can save a couple
of grand.

Looking for opinions from anyone who's changed sides.


I don't know about the XC60, I have a Mercedes C220 which has the DSG
box. It has a (semi) manual mode which I seldom use. I say "semi manual"
because it will override your selection to prevent over-revving or stalling.

I think once you get above 5-gears you really can't keep track. The Merc
can be persuaded to change down when you want a little more get up and go.

A friend bought a jag because it had a manual box. He took me for a ride
to show how good it was. He was in the wrong gear 90% of the time...

Dave
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On 26/05/2021 18:02, Tim+ wrote:
Fredxx wrote:
On 26/05/2021 14:30, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

snip

One gearbox has the odd gears, the other the even. And changing
between say 1st to 2nd is done by swapping the clutches. When the car is
in 2nd gear, the other box has selected 3rd, and the process repeated.
This arrangement can give a virtually seamless power flow under pretty
well all conditions.


A friend of mine remarked how dangerous these were.

Lets suppose you want instant power, with a manual you can anticipate
how long it takes to go from say 3rd to 2nd gear.

On one of these the gearboxes the parallel box will be sitting in 4th
gear, and so has to make the relevant movements to go into second before
operating the clutch. Thus maybe sitting on the wrong side of the road
whilst wanting to pass a slow vehicle for much longer than expected.

This was his take and I confess not to ever having driven one.




You friend is an idiot. ;-)

These boxes can change so quickly that in practice, they can drop gears and
accelerated faster than you could in a manual. No need to press the
clutch, pick a gear, let the clutch out again etc, just stomp the go pedal.


The point is the gearbox was sitting in 4th whilst he was driving in
3rd, and took a while to move to 2nd. Perhaps these gearboxes are not
all the same. He was quite adamant on how long he was waiting for power
to kick in.
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Default OT: Manual or automatic gearbox? and XC60 opinion...

R D S wrote:

I'm looking for a car, XC60 2.0 D4 if anyone has any opinions on those.

I've never owned an automatic and never wanted one but I test drove one
yesterday and while i'm not going to be buying that particular one
having driven it i'm wondering if i'd actually prefer an auto. It
certainly wasn't like autos of old that i've driven.


Was it what volvo call the "powershift" double clutch? If so that's
what I'd opt for ...



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On 2021-05-26 16:09:43 +0000, R D S said:

It was a geartronic I drove.
There's so much traffic around these parts these days you end up with
clutch foot ache.
Didn't think i'd like an auto but was very pleased and now having a
complete rethink, plus as stated elsewhere, no more clutch replacement.

Headache if the box goes kaput though!

As an aside, it was interesting when I almost launched everyone through
the windscreen the first time I wanted to stop it and my left foot
instinctively went for the clutch and found the brake.


The geartronic shift up and down the gears I find useful if only that I
keep wanting to do something with my left hand... it's useful to lock
the gear in 2 say when there are a load of speed bumps close together.

If you do go for a Volvo it has one of the best user forums for any
make and also at least one good facebook group. The forum has saved my
bacon a few times - you could ask about issues with a model here. Auto
boxes like fluid changes, which makers often don't recommend but users
do.

https://www.volvoforums.org.uk

I often use my left foot for the brake, which you are not supposed to
do with an auto but I can't see any reason why not.




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Default OT: Manual or automatic gearbox? and XC60 opinion...

On 26/05/2021 13:03, R D S wrote:
I'm looking for a car, XC60 2.0 D4 if anyone has any opinions on those.

I've never owned an automatic and never wanted one but I test drove one
yesterday and while i'm not going to be buying that particular one
having driven it i'm wondering if i'd actually prefer an auto. It
certainly wasn't like autos of old that i've driven.

But if I come back to the idea i'd prefer a manual I can save a couple
of grand.

Looking for opinions from anyone who's changed sides.


About 5 years ago I hire a Jeep in the USA. I had to stop driving it up
a hill because the automatic gear box overheated and a warning light
came on.


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Default OT: Manual or automatic gearbox? and XC60 opinion...

In article ,
Michael Chare wrote:
On 26/05/2021 13:03, R D S wrote:
I'm looking for a car, XC60 2.0 D4 if anyone has any opinions on those.

I've never owned an automatic and never wanted one but I test drove one
yesterday and while i'm not going to be buying that particular one
having driven it i'm wondering if i'd actually prefer an auto. It
certainly wasn't like autos of old that i've driven.

But if I come back to the idea i'd prefer a manual I can save a couple
of grand.

Looking for opinions from anyone who's changed sides.


About 5 years ago I hire a Jeep in the USA. I had to stop driving it up
a hill because the automatic gear box overheated and a warning light
came on.


Odd, really, as once the US made the very best autos. Even Rolls chose to
fit them. But about 40 years ago they sat on their laurels and it's now
Germany which leads the way. Of course with cheap fuel they didn't see the
need for a more efficient auto - just fitted a bigger engine for more go.

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Dave Plowman wrote:

Fredxx wrote:

Lets suppose you want instant power, with a manual you can anticipate
how long it takes to go from say 3rd to 2nd gear.


As you can also with modern autos.


About 1/5 of a second to change with a double clutch, unless you "catch
it out" e.g. it was in 3rd on the "odd half" and has 4th ready to go on
the "even half" but then you hoof it, so now it needs 2nd on the "even
half", so that makes it a bit slower.

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On 26/05/2021 15:31, jon wrote:
On Wed, 26 May 2021 15:22:30 +0100, Graham Harrison wrote:

On Wed, 26 May 2021 12:22:17 -0000 (UTC), jon wrote:

On Wed, 26 May 2021 13:03:07 +0100, R D S wrote:

I'm looking for a car, XC60 2.0 D4 if anyone has any opinions on
those.

I've never owned an automatic and never wanted one but I test drove
one yesterday and while i'm not going to be buying that particular one
having driven it i'm wondering if i'd actually prefer an auto. It
certainly wasn't like autos of old that i've driven.

But if I come back to the idea i'd prefer a manual I can save a couple
of grand.

Looking for opinions from anyone who's changed sides.

Automatic, I have had autos since 1969. Previous Zodiacs, Rovers and
Jaguars were all manual.


I've been driving autos on and off for something like 50 years. I passed
the test on a manual but my dad had a Triumph 2000 auto which he let me
drive (!).

Those early one were Borg Warner 3-speed jobs. Easy to drive but very
little control over the box which meant it took a while sometimes to
work out what gear it needed.

Then I started visiting family in the USA; no choice there and the Borg
Warner type boxes combined with lazy US cars required a different
driving style. There was one in the late 1990s that I took from Denver
into Yellowstone Park and coming out of the park over the "Beartooth
Highway" there was a long, long descent and I realised that the only low
gear I had access to was the lowest so I had to stop on the way down to
allow brakes to cool!

For a long time I had manuals but then my wife got a Subaru Justy (I
think that was it) with an auto box and 4WD. All she really wanted was
the auto. Her work as a Health Visitor meant quite a lot of short
distance driving between clients to which the auto was well suited.

These days I have a Yeti auto on a diesel engine. 6 gears, two auto
selections - Drive and Sport plus the ability to select individual gears
(but only 1 up/down, no changing through 2 gears in one move). My wife
drives a Jazz with a CVT box with paddle changers that (nominally)
provide access to 7 gears. I much prefer the VW/Yeti box which allows me
the freedom not to HAVE to think about gears and to concentrate on the
road. It's not perfect in auto mode but it's pretty clever changing
down, for instance, as you slow.

I will/can dive an auto but I've come to recognise the benefits in
recent years.


In the sixties the Met Police in London changed over to automatic
gearboxes to save on clutch replacement costs and driver fatigue. I heard
that over 600 gear changes was common for a shift.

And learnt to fool the box using left foot braking to force a shift
down. So they burnt the brakes out instead


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