On Tue, 8 Jun 2021 06:49:43 +1000, Joey, better known as cantankerous
trolling senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:

FLUSH the trolling senile asshole's latest troll**** unread

--
about senile Rot Speed:
"This is like having a conversation with someone with brain damage."
MID:

On Monday, 7 June 2021 at 18:40:07 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

I never use the handbrake. Footbrake on with the left foot when I engage
drive.

My first automatic didn't have handbrake. It had a parking brake which was operated by foot. (The manual version was foul to drive.)

On 07/06/2021 14:55, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

A decent modern auto will usually select the same gear as a skilled diver
would too. And better than many.


This.
My ZF 8 speed auto is stunningly clever at getting the right ratio and
the TC to locks up very quickly. It's an absolute joy to drive. I was
reluctant at first having had 3 old 3 speed auto cars in the past (VP
Princess R, Rover P5B and a Rover 3500 SD1). It took about 30mins of
driving to make me realise how naff it is having to change gear yourself
and how awful old auto 3 speed boxes were.

Dave Plowman wrote:

Those who insist on only using one foot with an auto are just making work
for themselves. Although left foot braking does take a bit of practice.

I occasionally drive other peoples' manual cars, don't want to train my
feet that way ...

On 07/06/2021 21:19, polygonum_on_google wrote:


Are you sure it isn't an automatic parking brake? That releases itself as you accelerate off from stopped.


If you put the handbrake on in drive, yes.

Otherwise you cant shift the stick back to drive until you've released it.

"Andy Burns" wrote in message
...
Dave Plowman wrote:

Those who insist on only using one foot with an auto are just making work
for themselves. Although left foot braking does take a bit of practice.

I occasionally drive other peoples' manual cars, don't want to train my
feet that way ...

Using your right foot only is no more work for your right foot than driving
a manual. I work on the principle that you should drive an automatic as much
like a manual as possible, omitting the tasks like changing gear and using
the clutch, but not changing or adding anything else. Having to adjust
between right-foot braking for manual and left-foot for auto is something I
would find very difficult. I'm used to braking with my right foot. Why would
I want *not* to do that in an auto - apart from the "because you can" factor
;-)

On 07/06/2021 18:15, John Rumm wrote:
On 07/06/2021 12:03, R D S wrote:
I'm guessing this is why i've been sick of staring at other's brake
lights for years, i've probably been behind autos.

Or just lazy sods who never thing of the person behind them!


I suspect much of both.

R D S wrote:
On 07/06/2021 18:15, John Rumm wrote:
On 07/06/2021 12:03, R D S wrote:
I'm guessing this is why i've been sick of staring at other's brake
lights for years, i've probably been behind autos.

Or just lazy sods who never thing of the person behind them!


I suspect much of both.

As explained, my car is designed to keep brake lights on whenever it's
stopped in gear, and I don't shift into neutral just for creeping
forwards/stopping in traffic.

NY wrote:

"Andy Burns" wrote in message
...
Dave Plowman wrote:

Those who insist on only using one foot with an auto are just making
work
for themselves. Although left foot braking does take a bit of practice.

I occasionally drive other peoples' manual cars, don't want to train
my feet that way ...

Using your right foot only is no more work for your right foot than
driving a manual.

That's what I do.

What I don't want to do is train my left foot to do braking, too much
potential for ****-up.

On 08/06/2021 09:56, NY wrote:
Having to adjust between right-foot braking for manual and left-foot for
auto is something I would find very difficult.

I found it really rather easy


--
How fortunate for governments that the people they administer don't think.

Adolf Hitler

"NY" wrote in message
...
"Andy Burns" wrote in message
...
Dave Plowman wrote:

Those who insist on only using one foot with an auto are just making
work
for themselves. Although left foot braking does take a bit of practice.

I occasionally drive other peoples' manual cars, don't want to train my
feet that way ...

Using your right foot only is no more work for your right foot than
driving a manual.

Yes, but a lot more work than using a different foot for each pedal.

I work on the principle that you should drive an automatic as much like a
manual as possible, omitting the tasks like changing gear and using the
clutch, but not changing or adding anything else.

Thats mad.

Having to adjust between right-foot braking for manual and left-foot for
auto is something I would find very difficult.

Yes, you are that rigid.

I'm used to braking with my right foot. Why would I want *not* to do that
in an auto - apart from the "because you can" factor ;-)

Because it works better.

Even his previous line that if you drive both
a manual and an auto quite a bit of the time
it might be undesirable in an emergency is
rather dubious because if you use your left
foot in the manual it will still work fine and the
same with using your right foot for the brake in
the auto.,

"Andy Burns" wrote in message
...
NY wrote:

"Andy Burns" wrote in message
...
Dave Plowman wrote:

Those who insist on only using one foot with an auto are just making
work
for themselves. Although left foot braking does take a bit of practice.

I occasionally drive other peoples' manual cars, don't want to train my
feet that way ...

Using your right foot only is no more work for your right foot than
driving a manual.

That's what I do.

What I don't want to do is train my left foot to do braking, too much
potential for ****-up.

Cant see it can produce a ****up because even if you do
the wrong thing in the other type of car it will still work fine.

In article ,
Andy Burns wrote:
Dave Plowman wrote:

Those who insist on only using one foot with an auto are just making
work for themselves. Although left foot braking does take a bit of
practice.

I occasionally drive other peoples' manual cars, don't want to train my
feet that way ...

I've not found it a problem. At worst, you'll use both feet on the brake
in a panic.

--
*The average person falls asleep in seven minutes *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
NY wrote:
"Andy Burns" wrote in message
...
Dave Plowman wrote:

Those who insist on only using one foot with an auto are just making
work for themselves. Although left foot braking does take a bit of
practice.

I occasionally drive other peoples' manual cars, don't want to train
my feet that way ...

Using your right foot only is no more work for your right foot than
driving a manual. I work on the principle that you should drive an
automatic as much like a manual as possible, omitting the tasks like
changing gear and using the clutch, but not changing or adding anything
else. Having to adjust between right-foot braking for manual and
left-foot for auto is something I would find very difficult. I'm used to
braking with my right foot. Why would I want *not* to do that in an auto
- apart from the "because you can" factor ;-)

Sounds like you've never learned how. There are lots of practical
advantages using both feet in an auto. But if you've decided it's not for
you, fairy nuff. But not having tried it hardly in a position to be
definitive?

--
*I went to school to become a wit, only got halfway through.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Andy Burns wrote:
NY wrote:

"Andy Burns" wrote in message
...
Dave Plowman wrote:

Those who insist on only using one foot with an auto are just making
work
for themselves. Although left foot braking does take a bit of practice.

I occasionally drive other peoples' manual cars, don't want to train
my feet that way ...

Using your right foot only is no more work for your right foot than
driving a manual.

That's what I do.

What I don't want to do is train my left foot to do braking, too much
potential for ****-up.

Oddly, when most first try it, they find they start off braking too hard.
Because with a clutch you slap it down and release gently - rather the
reverse of braking.

--
*Learn from your parents' mistakes - use birth control.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Tue, 8 Jun 2021 19:37:46 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

Cant see it can produce a ****up because even if you do
the wrong thing in the other type of car it will still work fine.

In auto-contradicting mode again, you abnormal senile pest?

--
Xeno to senile Rodent:
"You're a sad old man Rod, truly sad."
MID:

"Rod Speed is an entirely modern phenomenon. Essentially, Rod Speed
is an insecure and worthless individual who has discovered he can
enhance his own self-esteem in his own eyes by playing "the big, hard
man" on the InterNet."

https://www.pcreview.co.uk/threads/r...d-faq.2973853/

--
Bod addressing abnormal senile quarreller Rot:
"Do you practice arguing with yourself in an empty room?"
MID:

Dave Plowman wrote:

Andy Burns wrote:

What I don't want to do is train my left foot to do braking, too much
potential for ****-up.

In the same way that my fingers remember all my complex passwords, but
my brain doesn't, my feet know how to do emergency braking, without any
input from my brain .. ok clearly not ... but that's how it feels.

Oddly, when most first try it, they find they start off braking too hard.

Yes, whenever I've tried left foot braking, I've made friends with the
windscreen.

Because with a clutch you slap it down and release gently - rather the
reverse of braking.

I don't see what's to gain by left-foot breaking, once you have hold
assist available?

Dave Plowman wrote:

There are lots of practical advantages using both feet in an auto.

OK, you *do* need to apply the brake with your left foot to make use of
launch control ...

On 26/05/2021 13:03, R D S wrote:
I'm looking for a car, XC60 2.0 D4 if anyone has any opinions on those.

I've never owned an automatic and never wanted one but I test drove one
yesterday and while i'm not going to be buying that particular one
having driven it i'm wondering if i'd actually prefer an auto. It
certainly wasn't like autos of old that i've driven.

But if I come back to the idea i'd prefer a manual I can save a couple
of grand.

Looking for opinions from anyone who's changed sides.

Auto, DSG.

I have a car that does everything to not get involved with the drudgery
of driving.

I like it, it's a motorised armchair pulling me from A to B with
automatic gears and brakes. I just point it, and switch on the radar
equipped cruise control. Automatic handbrake when it comes to a stop.
Automatic crawl in traffic if the car in front decides to move forward
in the queue. A camera recognises speed signs.

Not autopilot on the steering yet, but given that's electric - a few
GPIO pins on a raspberry pi should be easy to interface.... (just kiddin')

If I feel a bit bored and can afford the fuel, I have a few button
options to go manual, wreak the comfort, and enjoy the 'die trying hit'.

But then there's the downsides, that all of this is software driven, and
there is an AI somewhere. Ye have to be be aware second guessing what it
could do next.

So my car looks for things in front, and stays a configured distance
behind them. Collision avoidance.

If the car in front stupidly hits the speed limit and afterwards careers
into the suddenly braked car car in front of it, my car gently puts the
brakes on, checks if I'm awake, and if not, then slams on the anchors in
the middle of the road. Then I presumably get gently awoken to being
rear ended by the car behind, while being surrounded by exploding pillows.

Nice attention to detail... the next release of the model is said to be
much improved, by steering the car to near the pavement.



Some people don't like tech - this car would be the source of a million
questions "why on earth did it do that?"

--
Adrian C

Adrian Caspersz wrote:

So my car looks for things in front, and stays a configured distance
behind them. Collision avoidance.

Mine doesn't have radar cruise control, but it does have a front facing
camera under the rear view mirror that looks out for "hazards"

When it spots a "hazard" it goes BONG! and flashes up a distracting
message on the screen, it has never managed to spot one of these hazards
before I did, and the other day as I was pulling around a bend over a
humpback bridge, it noticed that I was momentarily aimed towards some
pedestrians walking the other way round the bend, so it did a full-on
application of ABS, ****ing thing!

On 08/06/2021 14:25, Andy Burns wrote:
Adrian Caspersz wrote:

So my car looks for things in front, and stays a configured distance
behind them. Collision avoidance.

Everything I drive does that. However I notice when I'm given a lift in
one of my kids' very swanky cars, the feature doesn't seem to work at all.

Bill

On 08/06/2021 10:06, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 08/06/2021 09:56, NY wrote:
Having to adjust between right-foot braking for manual and left-foot
for auto is something I would find very difficult.

I found it really rather easy


I wouldn't have expected anything less from you.

On 08/06/2021 13:46, Andy Burns wrote:
Dave Plowman wrote:

Andy Burns wrote:

What I don't want to do is train my left foot to do braking, too much
potential for ****-up.

In the same way that my fingers remember all my complex passwords, but
my brain doesn't, my feet know how to do emergency braking, without any
input from my brain .. ok clearly not ... but that's how it feels.

Oddly, when most first try it, they find they start off braking too hard.

Yes, whenever I've tried left foot braking, I've made friends with the
windscreen.

Because with a clutch you slap it down and release gently - rather the
reverse of braking.

I don't see what's to gain by left-foot breaking, once you have hold
assist available?
Precise inching and keeping revs up mid corner

--
"Women actually are capable of being far more than the feminists will
let them."

"Andy Burns" wrote in message
...
Dave Plowman wrote:

Andy Burns wrote:

What I don't want to do is train my left foot to do braking, too much
potential for ****-up.

In the same way that my fingers remember all my complex passwords, but my
brain doesn't, my feet know how to do emergency braking, without any input
from my brain .. ok clearly not ... but that's how it feels.

Oddly, when most first try it, they find they start off braking too hard.

Yes, whenever I've tried left foot braking, I've made friends with the
windscreen.

Because with a clutch you slap it down and release gently - rather the
reverse of braking.

I don't see what's to gain by left-foot breaking, once you have hold
assist available?

Works better for tight parking situations and for backing up to the trailer
hitch, you dont have to move your feet from one pedal to another
particularly
with a decent reversing camera which lets you see the trailer hitch and
towbar.

"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...


"Andy Burns" wrote in message
...
Dave Plowman wrote:

Andy Burns wrote:

What I don't want to do is train my left foot to do braking, too much
potential for ****-up.

In the same way that my fingers remember all my complex passwords, but my
brain doesn't, my feet know how to do emergency braking, without any
input from my brain .. ok clearly not ... but that's how it feels.

Oddly, when most first try it, they find they start off braking too
hard.

Yes, whenever I've tried left foot braking, I've made friends with the
windscreen.

Because with a clutch you slap it down and release gently - rather the
reverse of braking.

I don't see what's to gain by left-foot breaking, once you have hold
assist available?

Why is hold assist even necessary? It's simple a sop to the people who can't
coordinate releasing the handbrake with operating the accelerator (and maybe
clutch) pedal.

Works better for tight parking situations and for backing up to the
trailer
hitch, you dont have to move your feet from one pedal to another
particularly
with a decent reversing camera which lets you see the trailer hitch and
towbar.

Yes I think we are all agreed that because automatics only have an
accelerator and a brake to regulate speed, whereas manuals also have a
clutch that can be slipped, *low-speed* *precise* movement is more easily
achieved with left-foot braking in an automatic. But is there any advantage
in using the left foot to brake in normal driving? Or is it just a case of
doing it because you can, rather than for any better reason. I have no
problem using the same foot for brake and accelerator in a manual, so I
don't see the benefit of using different feet in an automatic. Maybe there's
something explanation that I'm missing...

OK, so rally drivers resort to heel-and-toe operating the brake and
accelerator at the same time, but I'm thinking of normal driving where you
brake before the hazard and then accelerate out of it, and so don't need to
operate both pedals simultaneously.


Given that every automatic I've ever seen, going back to the mid sixties
(*), has an extra-wide footbrake pedal, the concept of left-foot braking is
something that has been around for a long time with automatics. So in the
early days of automatics, someone perceived that there was a benefit of
allowing it. I'm trying to work out what that reason was and still is.


(*) And probably a lot longer, but I can't comment on cars that were around
before I was born and before the earliest that I can remember ;-)

"NY" wrote in message
...
"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...


"Andy Burns" wrote in message
...
Dave Plowman wrote:

Andy Burns wrote:

What I don't want to do is train my left foot to do braking, too much
potential for ****-up.

In the same way that my fingers remember all my complex passwords, but
my brain doesn't, my feet know how to do emergency braking, without any
input from my brain .. ok clearly not ... but that's how it feels.

Oddly, when most first try it, they find they start off braking too
hard.

Yes, whenever I've tried left foot braking, I've made friends with the
windscreen.

Because with a clutch you slap it down and release gently - rather the
reverse of braking.

I don't see what's to gain by left-foot breaking, once you have hold
assist available?

Why is hold assist even necessary?

No one said it was necessary, its just convenient, like with an
auto, cruise control, climate control, central locking etc etc etc.

It's simple a sop to the people who can't coordinate releasing the
handbrake with operating the accelerator (and maybe clutch) pedal.

Its not a sop, its a convenience, like with an auto, cruise
control, climate control, central locking etc etc etc.

Works better for tight parking situations and for backing up to the
trailer hitch, you dont have to move your feet from one pedal to another
particularly with a decent reversing camera which lets you see the
trailer hitch and towbar.

Yes I think we are all agreed that because automatics only have an
accelerator and a brake to regulate speed, whereas manuals also have a
clutch that can be slipped, *low-speed* *precise* movement is more easily
achieved with left-foot braking in an automatic.

But is there any advantage in using the left foot to brake in normal
driving?

Yes, you dont have to move the right foot back
to the accelerator when you have finished braking.

In spades with inching in a traffic jam.

Or is it just a case of doing it because you can, rather than for any
better reason.

Nope.

I have no problem using the same foot for brake and accelerator in a
manual, so I don't see the benefit of using different feet in an
automatic.

That gives you finer control in some situations
like inching in traffic jams and when stacked
up waiting to turn right thru traffic coming
the other way when that junction isnt light
controlled and when entering a roundabout.

Maybe there's something explanation that I'm missing...

See above.

OK, so rally drivers resort to heel-and-toe operating the brake and
accelerator at the same time, but I'm thinking of normal driving where you
brake before the hazard and then accelerate out of it, and so don't need
to operate both pedals simultaneously.

That isnt the only situation where you use the brakes with normal
driving.

Given that every automatic I've ever seen, going back to the mid sixties
(*), has an extra-wide footbrake pedal, the concept of left-foot braking
is something that has been around for a long time with automatics. So in
the early days of automatics, someone perceived that there was a benefit
of allowing it. I'm trying to work out what that reason was and still is.

See above.

(*) And probably a lot longer, but I can't comment on cars that were
around before I was born and before the earliest that I can remember ;-)

Tad radical...

On Wed, 9 Jun 2021 06:27:01 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH the trolling senile asshole's latest troll**** unread

--
Senile Rodent about himself:
"I was involved in the design of a computer OS"
MID:

LOL!!!!!

On 08/06/2021 15:28, williamwright wrote:
On 08/06/2021 14:25, Andy Burns wrote:
Adrian Caspersz wrote:

So my car looks for things in front, and stays a configured distance
behind them. Collision avoidance.

Everything I drive does that. However I notice when I'm given a lift in
one of my kids' very swanky cars, the feature doesn't seem to work at all.

A vital component in most cars including the latest, is the nut just
behind the steering wheel :-)


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

In article , Andy Burns
writes
Dave Plowman wrote:

Andy Burns wrote:

What I don't want to do is train my left foot to do braking, too much
potential for ****-up.

In the same way that my fingers remember all my complex passwords, but
my brain doesn't, my feet know how to do emergency braking, without any
input from my brain .. ok clearly not ... but that's how it feels.

Oddly, when most first try it, they find they start off braking too hard.

Yes, whenever I've tried left foot braking, I've made friends with the
windscreen.

Because with a clutch you slap it down and release gently - rather the
reverse of braking.

I don't see what's to gain by left-foot breaking, once you have hold
assist available?
I've never had hold assist and have never used left foot breaking and
have driven probably about 10 different vehicles with autos.
--
bert

On 08/06/2021 20:45, NY wrote:
Yes I think we are all agreed that because automatics only have an
accelerator and a brake to regulate speed, whereas manuals also have a
clutch that can be slipped, *low-speed* *precise* movement is more
easily achieved with left-foot braking in an automatic.

Good. That is one HUGE advantage of it.

But is there any
advantage in using the left foot to brake in normal driving? Or is it
just a case of doing it because you can, rather than for any better
reason. I have no problem using the same foot for brake and accelerator
in a manual, so I don't see the benefit of using different feet in an
automatic. Maybe there's something explanation that I'm missing...

Well lets say that you can speed up reactions by maybe a couple of
hundred milliseconds, if your left foot is poised over the brake.
And it *used* to be a very good way to manually (pedally? ) control the
auto box - police drivers back in the day were taught to use it to get
best performance (and destroy the brakes) of their auto cars

These days with complex software, flappy paddles and different gearbox
modes, it's less of an issue



OK, so rally drivers resort to heel-and-toe operating the brake and
accelerator at the same time, but I'm thinking of normal driving where
you brake before the hazard and then accelerate out of it, and so don't
need to operate both pedals simultaneously.

They do that - or did that - to speed up the gear change especially with
straight cut non synchro boxes. These days gear changes are automatic.

I remember the lap record of all time being broken in a Williams Turbo
car by keke rosberg. I was there watching him *coast*, with the clutch
down, round Club Corner at about 140mph, blipping the throttle to keep
the turbos spun up before dropping the clutch and mashing the go pedal.

People who learnt ways to keep boost up - Senna was another - did well
in that era.


Given that every automatic I've ever seen, going back to the mid sixties
(*), has an extra-wide footbrake pedal, the concept of left-foot braking
is something that has been around for a long time with automatics. So in
the early days of automatics, someone perceived that there was a benefit
of allowing it. I'm trying to work out what that reason was and still is.

You should ask yourself why anyone thought it was a good ideas to have
three pedals when you only have two feet.

Left foot braking is becoming - apart for precision parking - far less a
necessity and far more proscribed by software in modern cars.
Back in the late 80s when I got my first auto, it was very useful. Now
its a pain because the software detects it and sulks


--
A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on
its shoes.

In article , bert writes
In article , Andy Burns
writes
Dave Plowman wrote:

Andy Burns wrote:

What I don't want to do is train my left foot to do braking, too much
potential for ****-up.

In the same way that my fingers remember all my complex passwords, but
my brain doesn't, my feet know how to do emergency braking, without
any input from my brain .. ok clearly not ... but that's how it feels.

Oddly, when most first try it, they find they start off braking too hard.

Yes, whenever I've tried left foot braking, I've made friends with the
windscreen.

Because with a clutch you slap it down and release gently - rather the
reverse of braking.

I don't see what's to gain by left-foot breaking, once you have hold
assist available?
I've never had hold assist and have never used left foot breaking and
have driven probably about 10 different vehicles with autos.
"Never" is not strictly true. Use it offroading in autos to keep
control on steep down hills when engine braking isn't enough.
--
bert