On 16/12/2020 14:46, GB wrote:
As I stepped well out of his way, a chap I passed took the time to
'inform' me that Covid doesn't exist, and it's a government conspiracy.
We should all ignore any precautions, he said.

I'm ever so slightly tin foil hat myself* but then it occurs to me that
the most staunch deniers in the main come across as mental.

*Because when all is said and done we are and will continue to lose
liberties.

On 16/12/2020 16:36, R D S wrote:
On 16/12/2020 14:46, GB wrote:
As I stepped well out of his way, a chap I passed took the time to
'inform' me that Covid doesn't exist, and it's a government
conspiracy. We should all ignore any precautions, he said.

I'm ever so slightly tin foil hat myself* but then it occurs to me that
the most staunch deniers in the main come across as mental.

*Because when all is said and done we are and will continue to lose
liberties.
Well, my experience is that almost everybody in the public eye is lying
most of the time. To the extent that I no longer wonder if it is true,
but why they are lying about it...and who is paying them to do it.

Whether there is one grand organised conspiracy seems unlikely. I think
my experience suggests that most people go along with the lies for a
quiet life or for personal advancement and financial gain.. Or to be
part of the crowd and not socially isolated. So a given narrative gains
momentum, or not. Take Black Lives Matter. That's a well organised well
funded Marxist conspiracy to create racism, but its failed to gain
traction and is dying on its feet, along with the greater depths of
wokeness.. Whereas too many people have found ways to profit from
'climate change' to treat it with the contempt it deserves.

Is Rothschild behind it? The Iranians think so. Right wing conspiracists
in this country prefer Soros.

I am sure they are in the mix somewhere, but really what it is is lots
of people playing their own game and being bought and or blackmailed by
people with money, and good intelligence.

I am sure Covid is real, I am equally sure that people with deep pockets
are paying other people a lot of money to turn a random event to
personal profit and political power.

It is a great rehearsal for how far you can push a population into
submission by Big State and get away with it.



--
To ban Christmas, simply give turkeys the vote.

On 16/12/2020 17:04, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 16/12/2020 16:36, R D S wrote:
On 16/12/2020 14:46, GB wrote:
As I stepped well out of his way, a chap I passed took the time to
'inform' me that Covid doesn't exist, and it's a government
conspiracy. We should all ignore any precautions, he said.

I'm ever so slightly tin foil hat myself* but then it occurs to me
that the most staunch deniers in the main come across as mental.

*Because when all is said and done we are and will continue to lose
liberties.
Well, my experience is that almost everybody in the public eye is lying
most of the time. To the extent that I no longer wonder if it is true,
but why they are lying about it...and who is paying them to do it.

Whether there is one grand organised conspiracy seems unlikely. I think
my experience suggests that most people go along with the lies for a
quiet life or for personal advancement and financial gain.. Or to be
part of the crowd and not socially isolated. So a given narrative gains
momentum, or not. Take Black Lives Matter. That's a well organised well
funded Marxist conspiracy to create racism, but its failed to gain
traction and is dying on its feet, along with the greater depths of
wokeness.. Whereas too many people have found ways to profit from
'climate change' to treat it with the contempt it deserves.

Is Rothschild behind it? The Iranians think so. Right wing conspiracists
in this country prefer Soros.

I am sure they are in the mix somewhere, but really what it is is lots
of people playing their own game and being bought and or blackmailed by
people with money, and good intelligence.

I am sure Covid is real, I am equally sure that people with deep pockets
are paying other people a lot of money to turn a random event to
personal profit and political power.

It is a great rehearsal for how far you can push a population into
submission by Big State and get away with it.

You actually don't strike me as insane, but you certainly have some
nutty views**. Maybe, you need to visit different web sites?

Which particular Rothschild, by the way? There must be dozens.




** IMHO, ofc!

On Wed, 16 Dec 2020 18:15:18 +0000
GB wrote:

On 16/12/2020 17:04, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 16/12/2020 16:36, R D S wrote:
On 16/12/2020 14:46, GB wrote:
As I stepped well out of his way, a chap I passed took the time
to 'inform' me that Covid doesn't exist, and it's a government
conspiracy. We should all ignore any precautions, he said.

I'm ever so slightly tin foil hat myself* but then it occurs to me
that the most staunch deniers in the main come across as mental.

*Because when all is said and done we are and will continue to
lose liberties.
Well, my experience is that almost everybody in the public eye is
lying most of the time. To the extent that I no longer wonder if it
is true, but why they are lying about it...and who is paying them
to do it.

Whether there is one grand organised conspiracy seems unlikely. I
think my experience suggests that most people go along with the
lies for a quiet life or for personal advancement and financial
gain.. Or to be part of the crowd and not socially isolated. So a
given narrative gains momentum, or not. Take Black Lives Matter.
That's a well organised well funded Marxist conspiracy to create
racism, but its failed to gain traction and is dying on its feet,
along with the greater depths of wokeness.. Whereas too many people
have found ways to profit from 'climate change' to treat it with
the contempt it deserves.

Is Rothschild behind it? The Iranians think so. Right wing
conspiracists in this country prefer Soros.

I am sure they are in the mix somewhere, but really what it is is
lots of people playing their own game and being bought and or
blackmailed by people with money, and good intelligence.

I am sure Covid is real, I am equally sure that people with deep
pockets are paying other people a lot of money to turn a random
event to personal profit and political power.

It is a great rehearsal for how far you can push a population into
submission by Big State and get away with it.

You actually don't strike me as insane, but you certainly have some
nutty views**. Maybe, you need to visit different web sites?

He's spent so much time wanking over his signed photo of Maggie
Thatcher that's he's completely addled his brain. He views the whole
world as either left or right - TurNiP's like the political version of
the terminally tedious **** Tim.

On 2020-12-16, GB wrote:
On 16/12/2020 17:04, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Is Rothschild behind it? The Iranians think so. Right wing conspiracists
in this country prefer Soros.

I am sure they are in the mix somewhere, but really what it is is lots
of people playing their own game and being bought and or blackmailed by
people with money, and good intelligence.

I am sure Covid is real, I am equally sure that people with deep pockets
are paying other people a lot of money to turn a random event to
personal profit and political power.

It is a great rehearsal for how far you can push a population into
submission by Big State and get away with it.

You actually don't strike me as insane, but you certainly have some
nutty views**. Maybe, you need to visit different web sites?

I think he needs to visit a psychiatrist!

** IMHO, ofc!
+1

On Wed, 16 Dec 2020 17:04:47 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Take Black Lives Matter. That's a well organised well funded Marxist
conspiracy to create racism, but its failed to gain traction and is
dying on its feet, along with the greater depths of wokeness..

Were you the guy in the street?



--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

On 16/12/2020 18:15, GB wrote:
On 16/12/2020 17:04, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 16/12/2020 16:36, R D S wrote:
On 16/12/2020 14:46, GB wrote:
As I stepped well out of his way, a chap I passed took the time to
'inform' me that Covid doesn't exist, and it's a government
conspiracy. We should all ignore any precautions, he said.

I'm ever so slightly tin foil hat myself* but then it occurs to me
that the most staunch deniers in the main come across as mental.

*Because when all is said and done we are and will continue to lose
liberties.
Well, my experience is that almost everybody in the public eye is
lying most of the time. To the extent that I no longer wonder if it is
true, but why they are lying about it...and who is paying them to do it.

Whether there is one grand organised conspiracy seems unlikely. I
think my experience suggests that most people go along with the lies
for a quiet life or for personal advancement and financial gain.. Or
to be part of the crowd and not socially isolated. So a given
narrative gains momentum, or not. Take Black Lives Matter. That's a
well organised well funded Marxist conspiracy to create racism, but
its failed to gain traction and is dying on its feet, along with the
greater depths of wokeness.. Whereas too many people have found ways
to profit from 'climate change' to treat it with the contempt it
deserves.

Is Rothschild behind it? The Iranians think so. Right wing
conspiracists in this country prefer Soros.

I am sure they are in the mix somewhere, but really what it is is lots
of people playing their own game and being bought and or blackmailed
by people with money, and good intelligence.

I am sure Covid is real, I am equally sure that people with deep
pockets are paying other people a lot of money to turn a random event
to personal profit and political power.

It is a great rehearsal for how far you can push a population into
submission by Big State and get away with it.

You actually don't strike me as insane, but you certainly have some
nutty views**. Maybe, you need to visit different web sites?

No, I simply am aware that there is a vast range of belief out there,
and multiple world-views, of which the one that you espouse, is merely a
single rather narrow and bigoted one.

Remember Arthur Andersen were our accountants once, and advised us to
break the law and mount a stock market scam to make lots of money. I ve
been there and have some T shirts. You really do not know what goes on
behind the scenes of the glossy marketing presentations you are
presented with.

In philosophy there are two schools of thought - broadly - realism and
idealism. Realism says the world is real and it doesn't matter what you
think it is, it doesn't change it. idealism says the world is all in
your mind and reality is whatever you believe it to be. The first is
how we do physics, the second is how we do politics and marketing. Post
Marx and the soviet union the idea that you can control a population by
manipulation of their beliefs took hold and its now the de facto way
it's done. All it takes is money and willing participants.
In this branch of philosophy it doesn't *matter* whether e.g.
ClimateChange„¢ is real or not. What matters is to *convince* people that
it *is*, and thereby make them accept that world government is the only
answer.



Which particular Rothschild, by the way? There must be dozens.


Go to any pro Iran conspiracy site.
The rationale is Iran hates Israel, Israel is Jewish ( No!) Rothschild
is Jewish with lots of money ergo Rothschild is Anti-Iran.

https://www.facebook.com/notes/musli...7161184308620/

is a fairly normal resume of the meme..

Then google Bilderberg for an alternative visions of a world dominated
by central bankers and puppet politicians and Bill Gates and George Soros.

If you really want to understand my philosophical position its more true
to say that I regard knowledge - *all* knowledge - as having
in-decidable truth content, and that Kantian transcendental idealism -
which broadly says that it *makes sense* to *believe* there is an
objective world out there, yes, but we are forever only able to approach
it through mental constructs, and the softer the science the more mental
are the constructs, until you get to the absurd position of e.g.
'subconscious racism' which is deemed to exist, in the same way a stone
exists, but you can't ever see it, because its subconscious! What a
great Zen style mind **** that one is!

So my interest and perspective is less about what I think is true,
because it's _all_ lies, really, just some work better than others - and
more about what belief structures are being pushed, by whom and for what
purpose, for you seem to have missed the fundamental truth about the
media, its all paid for by *someone*, and he who pays the piper...

...and furthermore, there is a far deeper and more subtle game being
played here, as a sort of psychological misdirection. What counts is not
which side of an argument is correct, but why is the argument happening
in the first place? Why must we for example, interpret human history
solely in terms of class conflict *alone* thereby condemning us to be
either a victim or an oppressor? Who *told* you it was all about class,
or race, or gender, and why did they want to move public debate on to
that issue? And don't believe they ever felt a deep moral compunction.
Purlease!

That human affairs news and the media is orchestrated and controlled is
obvious to everyone post Brexit, when in a panic they lost subtlety and
revealed a little of how the game was played. Who is organising it and
controlling it is of course another matter. How do politicians like
Blair, Major, Cameron end up very well off indeed when MPs salaries are
not that great?

Blair at least bought houses on mortgages, created a housing boom, and
flipped them. Insider trading par excellence, BUT what happened to him
after that?

"Cui Bono"? asks Cicero.
"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes"? asks Juvenal.

It's a pity we don't do the classics anymore.


--
You can get much farther with a kind word and a gun than you can with a
kind word alone.

Al Capone

On 16/12/2020 18:49, Mike wrote:
On Wed, 16 Dec 2020 18:15:18 +0000
GB wrote:

On 16/12/2020 17:04, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 16/12/2020 16:36, R D S wrote:
On 16/12/2020 14:46, GB wrote:
As I stepped well out of his way, a chap I passed took the time
to 'inform' me that Covid doesn't exist, and it's a government
conspiracy. We should all ignore any precautions, he said.

I'm ever so slightly tin foil hat myself* but then it occurs to me
that the most staunch deniers in the main come across as mental.

*Because when all is said and done we are and will continue to
lose liberties.
Well, my experience is that almost everybody in the public eye is
lying most of the time. To the extent that I no longer wonder if it
is true, but why they are lying about it...and who is paying them
to do it.

Whether there is one grand organised conspiracy seems unlikely. I
think my experience suggests that most people go along with the
lies for a quiet life or for personal advancement and financial
gain.. Or to be part of the crowd and not socially isolated. So a
given narrative gains momentum, or not. Take Black Lives Matter.
That's a well organised well funded Marxist conspiracy to create
racism, but its failed to gain traction and is dying on its feet,
along with the greater depths of wokeness.. Whereas too many people
have found ways to profit from 'climate change' to treat it with
the contempt it deserves.

Is Rothschild behind it? The Iranians think so. Right wing
conspiracists in this country prefer Soros.

I am sure they are in the mix somewhere, but really what it is is
lots of people playing their own game and being bought and or
blackmailed by people with money, and good intelligence.

I am sure Covid is real, I am equally sure that people with deep
pockets are paying other people a lot of money to turn a random
event to personal profit and political power.

It is a great rehearsal for how far you can push a population into
submission by Big State and get away with it.

You actually don't strike me as insane, but you certainly have some
nutty views**. Maybe, you need to visit different web sites?

He's spent so much time wanking over his signed photo of Maggie
Thatcher that's he's completely addled his brain. He views the whole
world as either left or right - TurNiP's like the political version of
the terminally tedious **** Tim.

There you see an example of a typical left mindset. A fixation with
Thatcher, and guilt about masturbation....

--
"A point of view can be a dangerous luxury when substituted for insight
and understanding".

Marshall McLuhan

On 16/12/2020 23:23, Bob Eager wrote:
On Wed, 16 Dec 2020 17:04:47 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Take Black Lives Matter. That's a well organised well funded Marxist
conspiracy to create racism, but its failed to gain traction and is
dying on its feet, along with the greater depths of wokeness..

Were you the guy in the street?



Not really.

Its simply obvious.

These people simple emerge from nowhere, with expensive T shirts, pre
printed banners, Che Guevara berets, a good line in classical Marxist
rhetoric...who set them up? grass roots my arse. They are a PUBLICITY
campaign paid for by...who? and why?

--
"A point of view can be a dangerous luxury when substituted for insight
and understanding".

Marshall McLuhan

On Thu, 17 Dec 2020 01:15:46 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 16/12/2020 23:23, Bob Eager wrote:
On Wed, 16 Dec 2020 17:04:47 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Take Black Lives Matter. That's a well organised well funded Marxist
conspiracy to create racism, but its failed to gain traction and is
dying on its feet, along with the greater depths of wokeness..

Were you the guy in the street?



Not really.

Its simply obvious.

These people simple emerge from nowhere, with expensive T shirts, pre
printed banners, Che Guevara berets, a good line in classical Marxist
rhetoric...who set them up? grass roots my arse. They are a PUBLICITY
campaign paid for by...who? and why?

+1

In message , The Natural Philosopher
writes
"Cui Bono"? asks Cicero.
"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes"? asks Juvenal.
Who looks after those who look after?

I got it from Kipling. My education didn't stretch that far!

It's a pity we don't do the classics anymore.



--
Tim Lamb

In article ,
Mike wrote:
On Wed, 16 Dec 2020 18:15:18 +0000
GB wrote:

On 16/12/2020 17:04, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 16/12/2020 16:36, R D S wrote:
On 16/12/2020 14:46, GB wrote:
As I stepped well out of his way, a chap I passed took the time
to 'inform' me that Covid doesn't exist, and it's a government
conspiracy. We should all ignore any precautions, he said.

I'm ever so slightly tin foil hat myself* but then it occurs to me
that the most staunch deniers in the main come across as mental.

*Because when all is said and done we are and will continue to
lose liberties.
Well, my experience is that almost everybody in the public eye is
lying most of the time. To the extent that I no longer wonder if it
is true, but why they are lying about it...and who is paying them
to do it.

Whether there is one grand organised conspiracy seems unlikely. I
think my experience suggests that most people go along with the
lies for a quiet life or for personal advancement and financial
gain.. Or to be part of the crowd and not socially isolated. So a
given narrative gains momentum, or not. Take Black Lives Matter.
That's a well organised well funded Marxist conspiracy to create
racism, but its failed to gain traction and is dying on its feet,
along with the greater depths of wokeness.. Whereas too many people
have found ways to profit from 'climate change' to treat it with
the contempt it deserves.

Is Rothschild behind it? The Iranians think so. Right wing
conspiracists in this country prefer Soros.

I am sure they are in the mix somewhere, but really what it is is
lots of people playing their own game and being bought and or
blackmailed by people with money, and good intelligence.

I am sure Covid is real, I am equally sure that people with deep
pockets are paying other people a lot of money to turn a random
event to personal profit and political power.

It is a great rehearsal for how far you can push a population into
submission by Big State and get away with it.

You actually don't strike me as insane, but you certainly have some
nutty views**. Maybe, you need to visit different web sites?

He's spent so much time wanking over his signed photo of Maggie
Thatcher that's he's completely addled his brain. He views the whole
world as either left or right - TurNiP's like the political version of
the terminally tedious **** Tim.

Turnip believing black lives don't matter is hardly a surprise.

--
*Being healthy is merely the slowest possible rate at which one can die.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 17/12/2020 07:45, Tim Streater wrote:
On 17 Dec 2020 at 01:15:46 GMT, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

On 16/12/2020 23:23, Bob Eager wrote:
On Wed, 16 Dec 2020 17:04:47 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Take Black Lives Matter. That's a well organised well funded Marxist
conspiracy to create racism, but its failed to gain traction and is
dying on its feet, along with the greater depths of wokeness..

Were you the guy in the street?

Not really.

Its simply obvious.

These people simple emerge from nowhere, with expensive T shirts, pre
printed banners, Che Guevara berets, a good line in classical Marxist
rhetoric...who set them up? grass roots my arse. They are a PUBLICITY
campaign paid for by...who? and why?

And the stupid blue berets with the stars on. Who designed them and paid for
them to be made?

It's a bit like the "spontaneous" demonstrations you used to get in Communist
counries and Nazi Germany.


It's *exactly* like...
Astro turf and Glorious Leaders...

--
Its easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled.
Mark Twain

On 17/12/2020 09:01, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , The Natural Philosopher
writes
"Cui Bono"? asks Cicero.
"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes"? asks Juvenal.
Who looks after those who look after?

Who guards the guardians, themselves?

THAT is why we have democracy. Keeps the swine a little bit honest.
Otherwise you end up with the EU.

Cui Bono? is simply 'Who benefits'?
Every time an article appears ask yourself that.


I got it from Kipling. My education didn't stretch that far!

It's a pity we don't do the classics anymore.





--
Its easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled.
Mark Twain

On 17/12/2020 11:14, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 17/12/2020 07:45, Tim Streater wrote:
On 17 Dec 2020 at 01:15:46 GMT, The Natural Philosopher

wrote:

On 16/12/2020 23:23, Bob Eager wrote:
Â* On Wed, 16 Dec 2020 17:04:47 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Â*Â*Â* Take Black Lives Matter. That's a well organised well funded
Marxist
Â* conspiracy to create racism, but its failed to gain traction and is
Â* dying on its feet, along with the greater depths of wokeness..
Â* Were you the guy in the street?
Not really.

Its simply obvious.

These people simple emerge from nowhere, with expensive T shirts, pre
printed banners, Che Guevara berets, a good line in classical Marxist
rhetoric...who set them up? grass roots my arse. They are a PUBLICITY
campaign paid for by...who? and why?

And the stupid blue berets with the stars on. Who designed them and
paid for
them to be made?

It's a bit like the "spontaneous" demonstrations you used to get in
Communist
counries and Nazi Germany.


It's *exactly* like...
Astro turf and Glorious Leaders...


Meanwhile the Covid-19 smokescreen is diverting the world media
attention away from the way China is slowly but surely going down
the same route that Germany did in the 1930's.

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...


In philosophy there are two schools of thought - broadly - realism and idealism.
Realism says the world is real and it doesn't matter what you think it is, it doesn't
change it. idealism says the world is all in your mind and reality is whatever you
believe it to be. The first is how we do physics,

Given that physics is based on calculations the first obvious question that claim
poses is " do numbers and mathematics" actually exist in the real world or are they
the products of human minds ? . Has for instance the fact that pi R squared is equal
to the area of a circle always existed since the dawn of time ? Or have circles
always existed for that matter ?

Or take science itself. Science progresses by disproving existing theories.
So that basically once they've been discarded and superceeded it must follow
that they described phenomena or relationships which never really existed in
the real world in the first place. So where did they exist ? Only in the mind
of the person formulating the theory/

And how do we know when a theory is superceeded ? When its prediction are
disproven by experiment. That's what makes science science the ability to
generate testable predictions whatever their source

the second is how we do politics and marketing.

To some extent at least all successful political and marketing campaigns
address peoples' deep seated psychological needs and emotions
as formulated in various theories which by their very nature are less
capable of generating rigorous predictions than are the hard sciences.

Such campaigns are then tested by trying them out on members
of the public.

Take on obvious example - the cynical claim that "most people are only
ever really moved to act as a result of one of two emotions' fear or greed.

"Fear" can be exploited in a number of ways - fear of foreigners - Muslims,
Mexican, and the Chnese in the case of Donald Trump, or the fear of being
left behind and ridiculed by your peers. by not owning the latest Apple iPhone
or Nike trainers,


Post Marx and the soviet union the idea that you can control a population by
manipulation of their beliefs took hold and its now the de facto way it's done.

Such thinking is hardly "post Marx". It was Marx himself who insisted that
the prevailing ideology - what the ordinary person in the street was most
concerned about was determined by the dominant class - the owners
of the means of production - capitalists.

This idea was further elaborated and brought up to date by the marxist Herbert
Marcuse in his 1964 book "One Dimensional Man" a critique of modern
materialist consumer culture based on the idea of "false needs".

Both of which unless you're seriously suggesting people really "need" the latest
iphone or trainers, or facebook or twiitter* seem to have been proved correct.

*Both of which cynically exploit the deep seated need of some people for approval
by their peers; by way of the provision of "likes" and "friends".

All it takes is money and willing participants.
In this branch of philosophy it doesn't *matter* whether e.g. ClimateChangeT is real
or not. What matters is to *convince* people that it *is*, and thereby make them accept
that world government is the only answer.

"World Government ". Only a crackpot would ever want to govern the world.

As it is, only geriatrics nowadays want to be President of the United States.

And who would ever want to try and govern billions of Chinese ?

snip conspiracy material

If you really want to understand my philosophical position its more true to say that I
regard knowledge - *all* knowledge - as having in-decidable truth content,

Renee Descartes supposedly made a big breakthrough with his famous
dictum "Cogito Ergo Sum". "I think therefore I am." Which according to
you remains indecidable

So that far as you're concerned, you can't even be sure that you exist
in the first place.

So why worry about all the other stuff at all ?


and that Kantian transcendental idealism - which broadly says that it *makes sense* to
*believe* there is an objective world out there, yes, but we are forever only able to
approach it through mental constructs, and the softer the science the more mental are
the constructs,

Softer ? So are you claiming sub-atomic physics is concerned with real
world objects which people encounter every day of their lives? Leptons,
quarks, etc. ~ How about the Higgs Boson ? It has yet to be proved that it
actually exists although they're spending billions looking for it, at the
taxpayers expense I might add.

If that isn't a "mental construct" perhaps you'd care to explain what it is/



until you get to the absurd position of e.g. 'subconscious racism' which is deemed to
exist, in the same way a stone exists, but you can't ever see it, because its
subconscious! What a great Zen style mind **** that one is!

Subconscious attitudes can be easily measured by unconscious overt behaviour.
Peoples pupils enlarge when they see things they like. You just show subjects
pictures of people of different races and measure any changes in their pupil
size.

This is a lot easier to measure than are subatomic particles - either their speed
or velocity.



So my interest and perspective is less about what I think is true, because it's _all_
lies, really, just some work better than others - and more about what belief structures
are being pushed, by whom and for what purpose, for you seem to have missed the
fundamental truth about the media, its all paid for by *someone*, and he who pays the
piper...

..and furthermore, there is a far deeper and more subtle game being played here, as a
sort of psychological misdirection. What counts is not which side of an argument is
correct, but why is the argument happening in the first place? Why must we for example,
interpret human history solely in terms of class conflict *alone* thereby condemning us
to be either a victim or an oppressor? Who *told* you it was all about class, or race,
or gender, and why did they want to move public debate on to that issue? And don't
believe they ever felt a deep moral compunction. Purlease!

That human affairs news and the media is orchestrated and controlled is obvious to
everyone post Brexit, when in a panic they lost subtlety and revealed a little of how
the game was played. Who is organising it and controlling it is of course another
matter. How do politicians like Blair, Major, Cameron end up very well off indeed when
MPs salaries are not that great?

Blair at least bought houses on mortgages, created a housing boom, and flipped them.
Insider trading par excellence, BUT what happened to him after that?

"Cui Bono"? asks Cicero.
"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes"? asks Juvenal.

It's a pity we don't do the classics anymore.


Indeed otherwise you wouldn't be quoting Senenca, a noted Stoic as making
a statement about religion, no true Stoic* would ever make.

"Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the
rulers as useful"

The fact that yourself and your fellow numpites don't recognise your mistake -
but instead pursue vain searches for an "authentic" source for the quotation
speaks volumes.

* Stoics believe that because there are so many aspects of life over which we
have no control - even if we try and fool ourselves into thinking we do (although
we should still make the effort) - the key to happiness lies within ourselves and
how we choose to view the world, not in the world itself.

So that basically what other people choose to do is of no real concern to us
or our happiness at all. The world may be full of idiots. So what ?

If only I'd followed Seneca's advice.


michael adams

....

On 17/12/2020 10:01:36, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Mike wrote:
On Wed, 16 Dec 2020 18:15:18 +0000
GB wrote:

On 16/12/2020 17:04, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 16/12/2020 16:36, R D S wrote:
On 16/12/2020 14:46, GB wrote:
As I stepped well out of his way, a chap I passed took the time
to 'inform' me that Covid doesn't exist, and it's a government
conspiracy. We should all ignore any precautions, he said.

I'm ever so slightly tin foil hat myself* but then it occurs to me
that the most staunch deniers in the main come across as mental.

*Because when all is said and done we are and will continue to
lose liberties.
Well, my experience is that almost everybody in the public eye is
lying most of the time. To the extent that I no longer wonder if it
is true, but why they are lying about it...and who is paying them
to do it.

Whether there is one grand organised conspiracy seems unlikely. I
think my experience suggests that most people go along with the
lies for a quiet life or for personal advancement and financial
gain.. Or to be part of the crowd and not socially isolated. So a
given narrative gains momentum, or not. Take Black Lives Matter.
That's a well organised well funded Marxist conspiracy to create
racism, but its failed to gain traction and is dying on its feet,
along with the greater depths of wokeness.. Whereas too many people
have found ways to profit from 'climate change' to treat it with
the contempt it deserves.

Is Rothschild behind it? The Iranians think so. Right wing
conspiracists in this country prefer Soros.

I am sure they are in the mix somewhere, but really what it is is
lots of people playing their own game and being bought and or
blackmailed by people with money, and good intelligence.

I am sure Covid is real, I am equally sure that people with deep
pockets are paying other people a lot of money to turn a random
event to personal profit and political power.

It is a great rehearsal for how far you can push a population into
submission by Big State and get away with it.

You actually don't strike me as insane, but you certainly have some
nutty views**. Maybe, you need to visit different web sites?

He's spent so much time wanking over his signed photo of Maggie
Thatcher that's he's completely addled his brain. He views the whole
world as either left or right - TurNiP's like the political version of
the terminally tedious **** Tim.

Turnip believing black lives don't matter is hardly a surprise.

I think all lives matter equally, does that make me a racist?

I don't see how any "white lives matter" campaign is any more incorrect
than a "black lives matter" campaign. In fact anyone differentiating on
the values of lives by the colour of skin is by very definition a racist.

On 17/12/2020 13:39, Fredxx wrote:
On 17/12/2020 10:01:36, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Turnip believing black lives don't matter is hardly a surprise.

Where did I say that black lives don't matter Dave?

Why must the Left always lie and attack people that they disagree with,
on spurious moral grounds?


I think all lives matter equally, does that make me a racist?

I don't see how any "white lives matter" campaign is any more incorrect
than a "black lives matter" campaign. In fact anyone differentiating on
the values of lives by the colour of skin is by very definition a racist.

indeed.






--
"If you dont read the news paper, you are un-informed. If you read the
news paper, you are mis-informed."

Mark Twain

On 17/12/2020 13:39, Fredxx wrote:

I think all lives matter equally, does that make me a racist?

Of course it doesn't, when taken literally.

However, the 'All lives matter' slogan has been adopted by racists, who
think that Blacks should accept their position at the bottom of the heap
without complaining. So, if you say "all lives matter", most people
interpret that as you meaning that black lives don't.

There's no question that innocent black people are far more likely to be
shot by police in the USA than innocent white people. Hence, whatever
you call it, the BLM movement has a good point to make.

In article ,
Fredxx wrote:
Turnip believing black lives don't matter is hardly a surprise.

I think all lives matter equally, does that make me a racist?

No - just different values from many US police, where the campaign started.

I don't see how any "white lives matter" campaign is any more incorrect
than a "black lives matter" campaign. In fact anyone differentiating on
the values of lives by the colour of skin is by very definition a racist.

In percentage terms, it's much rarer in the US for a white person to be
beaten by the police.

So the campaign targeted the greatest need.

--
*Sometimes I wake up grumpy; Other times I let him sleep.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Tim Streater wrote:
Turnip believing black lives don't matter is hardly a surprise.

Trust Our Dave to behave like a typical socialist - take something,
twist it round to mean something completely different, and present it as
fact.

PS: I think BLM, as a movement, is just another of the useless virtue
signalling entities that spring out of nowhere, rant and rave, and just
make things worse. Antifa and XR are two others. Run by and on behalf of
fascists.

Trust our Streater. Agrees with all the droolings of Turnip.

And all movements are useless virtue signalling. Apart from the Brexit
one, obviously. Which never ranted and raved but stuck to the truth.

--
*Age is a very high price to pay for maturity.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 17/12/2020 15:46, GB wrote:
On 17/12/2020 13:39, Fredxx wrote:

I think all lives matter equally, does that make me a racist?

Of course it doesn't, when taken literally.

However, the 'All lives matter' slogan has been adopted by racists, who
think that Blacks should accept their position at the bottom of the heap
without complaining. So, if you say "all lives matter", most people
interpret that as you meaning that black lives don't.

There's no question that innocent black people are far more likely to be
shot by police in the USA than innocent white people. Hence, whatever
you call it, the BLM movement has a good point to make.


I'd quite like to see the statistics showing that "innocent black people
are far more likely to be shot by police in the USA than innocent white
people" as it seems to me to raise some tricky issues - starting with
how to define "innocent".

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

On 17/12/2020 15:46, GB wrote:
think that Blacks should accept their position at the bottom of the heap
without complaining.

But blacks are not at the bottom of the heap.


--
The theory of Communism may be summed up in one sentence: Abolish all
private property.

Karl Marx

In article , Robin
wrote:
On 17/12/2020 15:46, GB wrote:
On 17/12/2020 13:39, Fredxx wrote:

I think all lives matter equally, does that make me a racist?

Of course it doesn't, when taken literally.

However, the 'All lives matter' slogan has been adopted by racists, who
think that Blacks should accept their position at the bottom of the
heap without complaining. So, if you say "all lives matter", most
people interpret that as you meaning that black lives don't.

There's no question that innocent black people are far more likely to
be shot by police in the USA than innocent white people. Hence,
whatever you call it, the BLM movement has a good point to make.


I'd quite like to see the statistics showing that "innocent black people
are far more likely to be shot by police in the USA than innocent white
people" as it seems to me to raise some tricky issues - starting with
how to define "innocent".

Innocent until proved guilty

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

On 17/12/2020 17:06, Robin wrote:
On 17/12/2020 15:46, GB wrote:
On 17/12/2020 13:39, Fredxx wrote:

I think all lives matter equally, does that make me a racist?

Of course it doesn't, when taken literally.

However, the 'All lives matter' slogan has been adopted by racists,
who think that Blacks should accept their position at the bottom of
the heap without complaining. So, if you say "all lives matter", most
people interpret that as you meaning that black lives don't.

There's no question that innocent black people are far more likely to
be shot by police in the USA than innocent white people. Hence,
whatever you call it, the BLM movement has a good point to make.


I'd quite like to see the statistics showing that "innocent black people
are far more likely to be shot by police in the USA than innocent white
people" as it seems to me to raise some tricky issues - starting with
how to define "innocent".


For every 'innocent' black person shot by the police in the USA,
100 more 'innocent' blacks are shot by other not-so-innocent
black people.

The death rate in Chicago this year has been awful

On 17/12/2020 17:47, charles wrote:
In article , Robin
wrote:
On 17/12/2020 15:46, GB wrote:
On 17/12/2020 13:39, Fredxx wrote:

I think all lives matter equally, does that make me a racist?

Of course it doesn't, when taken literally.

However, the 'All lives matter' slogan has been adopted by racists, who
think that Blacks should accept their position at the bottom of the
heap without complaining. So, if you say "all lives matter", most
people interpret that as you meaning that black lives don't.

There's no question that innocent black people are far more likely to
be shot by police in the USA than innocent white people. Hence,
whatever you call it, the BLM movement has a good point to make.


I'd quite like to see the statistics showing that "innocent black people
are far more likely to be shot by police in the USA than innocent white
people" as it seems to me to raise some tricky issues - starting with
how to define "innocent".

Innocent until proved guilty


So everyone the police shoot is innocent unless they are an escaped
convict? Or do they count as "not innocent" if convicted after the
shooting? The latter is problematical if they are shot dead as
prosecutions of dead people are exceedingly rare. It's also
problematical if common-sense dictates that being shot is punishment
enough so a prosecution would be a waste of resources.

FTAOD I am not denying that many American police have problems, just
seeking the basis for "what everybody knows".

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

On Thu, 17 Dec 2020 15:54:50 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Tim Streater wrote:
Turnip believing black lives don't matter is hardly a surprise.

Trust Our Dave to behave like a typical socialist - take something,
twist it round to mean something completely different, and present it as
fact.

PS: I think BLM, as a movement, is just another of the useless virtue
signalling entities that spring out of nowhere, rant and rave, and just
make things worse. Antifa and XR are two others. Run by and on behalf of
fascists.

Trust our Streater. Agrees with all the droolings of Turnip.

And all movements are useless virtue signalling. Apart from the Brexit
one, obviously. Which never ranted and raved but stuck to the truth.

What do we want ...?

Sovereignty!

At what cost ... ?

We don't care ...!

And we don't all consider that 'all lives matter, not just the Black
ones', as demonstrated by the trillions of lives that are *taken*
every year, just because people *want* (but don't need) to eat living
things.

I'll correct that, most don't 'want' to 'eat living things', they have
just been conditioned to consider doing so is 'acceptable' by
marketing and 'tradition' and most couldn't actually kill an animal
themselves if that was the deal (so are hypocrites / cowards).

So, people turn a blind eye, imagine it's all lovely green fields and
animals living pampered lives and just quietly fall asleep voluntarily
at the end (if they consider it at all), not squealing and desperately
trying survive as they are slowly gassed and having their throats cut.

And this isn't just some small fad, it's a very big / global issue
that 'matters' more than many other things and is already costing us
all in so many ways. ;-(

Cheers, T i m

In article ,
Tim Streater wrote:
On 17 Dec 2020 at 18:15:05 GMT, Robin wrote:

FTAOD I am not denying that many American police have problems, just
seeking the basis for "what everybody knows".

The problems the US has in this regard are structural. Start with the
fact that in the UK (pop: 65M) there are 43 or so police forces. Then
note that in the US, (pop: 350M or so, so 5 times as many, give or take)
there are more than 15,000 separate police forces.

Tiny police forces is a recipe for bias.

But even our police forces behave in a racist way - including the largest

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

In article ,
Robin wrote:
On 17/12/2020 15:46, GB wrote:
On 17/12/2020 13:39, Fredxx wrote:

I think all lives matter equally, does that make me a racist?

Of course it doesn't, when taken literally.

However, the 'All lives matter' slogan has been adopted by racists, who
think that Blacks should accept their position at the bottom of the heap
without complaining. So, if you say "all lives matter", most people
interpret that as you meaning that black lives don't.

There's no question that innocent black people are far more likely to be
shot by police in the USA than innocent white people. Hence, whatever
you call it, the BLM movement has a good point to make.


I'd quite like to see the statistics showing that "innocent black people
are far more likely to be shot by police in the USA than innocent white
people" as it seems to me to raise some tricky issues - starting with
how to define "innocent".

Does it really matter if they are innocent or not? Being shot should be a
last resort.

--
*I wonder how much deeper the ocean would be without sponges*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 17/12/2020 18:28, Tim Streater wrote:

Only a twerp would think that.

Only a twerp would say that. We can go on all day like that.

In article , Tim Streater
wrote:
On 17 Dec 2020 at 18:49:18 GMT, charles wrote:

In article , Tim Streater
wrote:
On 17 Dec 2020 at 18:15:05 GMT, Robin wrote:

FTAOD I am not denying that many American police have problems,
just seeking the basis for "what everybody knows".

The problems the US has in this regard are structural. Start with the
fact that in the UK (pop: 65M) there are 43 or so police forces. Then
note that in the US, (pop: 350M or so, so 5 times as many, give or
take) there are more than 15,000 separate police forces.

Tiny police forces is a recipe for bias.

But even our police forces behave in a racist way - including the
largest

Agreed but the results are rather worse there than here. And there, the
Chief of Police is elected and probably on the same ticket as the Mayor.
Meaning closer political control. And before you say that our PCCs are
elected, the PCC doesn't have operational control, that remains with the
Chief Constable.

Personally I was always rather dubious about the UK having PCCs, for just
this sort of reason.

You also need to realise that PCC stands for "Police & Crime Commissioner".
Why do we pay somebody to commission crimes?

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

On 17/12/2020 15:46:19, GB wrote:
On 17/12/2020 13:39, Fredxx wrote:

I think all lives matter equally, does that make me a racist?

Of course it doesn't, when taken literally.

However, the 'All lives matter' slogan has been adopted by racists, who
think that Blacks should accept their position at the bottom of the heap
without complaining. So, if you say "all lives matter", most people
interpret that as you meaning that black lives don't.

So the issue here is if you start a racist campaign saying only black
lives matter, then when someone says that all lives matter they are
assumed to be racist?

I think that is arse backwards.

There's no question that innocent black people are far more likely to be
shot by police in the USA than innocent white people. Hence, whatever
you call it, the BLM movement has a good point to make.

It should make a point that white lives are also cut short by being shot
by the police. The fact it happens less doesn't make a white life less
important.

What is the biggest shame, if there was a campaign "all lives matter"
and was endorsed by the black community and those known to express views
to the masses, it would have gained far more support.

On 17/12/2020 18:49, charles wrote:
In article ,
Tim Streater wrote:
On 17 Dec 2020 at 18:15:05 GMT, Robin wrote:

FTAOD I am not denying that many American police have problems, just
seeking the basis for "what everybody knows".

The problems the US has in this regard are structural. Start with the
fact that in the UK (pop: 65M) there are 43 or so police forces. Then
note that in the US, (pop: 350M or so, so 5 times as many, give or take)
there are more than 15,000 separate police forces.

Tiny police forces is a recipe for bias.

But even our police forces behave in a racist way - including the largest

No, they don't.
Who told you that?
Black Lives Matter?


--
"If you dont read the news paper, you are un-informed. If you read the
news paper, you are mis-informed."

Mark Twain

On 18 Dec 2020 at 00:22:43 GMT, "The Natural Philosopher"
wrote:

On 17/12/2020 18:49, charles wrote:
In article ,
Tim Streater wrote:
On 17 Dec 2020 at 18:15:05 GMT, Robin wrote:

FTAOD I am not denying that many American police have problems, just
seeking the basis for "what everybody knows".

The problems the US has in this regard are structural. Start with the
fact that in the UK (pop: 65M) there are 43 or so police forces. Then
note that in the US, (pop: 350M or so, so 5 times as many, give or take)
there are more than 15,000 separate police forces.

Tiny police forces is a recipe for bias.

But even our police forces behave in a racist way - including the largest

No, they don't.
Who told you that?
Black Lives Matter?

It does seem to be the official, if regretted, view of the Metropolitan
Police.

--
Roger Hayter

On Fri, 18 Dec 2020 00:17:02 +0000, Fredxx wrote:

On 17/12/2020 15:46:19, GB wrote:
On 17/12/2020 13:39, Fredxx wrote:

I think all lives matter equally, does that make me a racist?

Of course it doesn't, when taken literally.

However, the 'All lives matter' slogan has been adopted by racists, who
think that Blacks should accept their position at the bottom of the
heap without complaining. So, if you say "all lives matter", most
people interpret that as you meaning that black lives don't.

So the issue here is if you start a racist campaign saying only black
lives matter, then when someone says that all lives matter they are
assumed to be racist?

I think that is arse backwards.

There's no question that innocent black people are far more likely to
be shot by police in the USA than innocent white people. Hence,
whatever you call it, the BLM movement has a good point to make.

Interestingly, a USA study in police shooting target practice facilities -
the ones where cardboard cutouts spin round and the officer has to shoot
the perp and not the victim - showed that black targets, 'perp' or
'victim', were much more likely to be shot. The kicker was that black
officers had the same skewed hit rates (allowing for a margin of
statistical error) as their white colleagues.

It should make a point that white lives are also cut short by being shot
by the police. The fact it happens less doesn't make a white life less
important.

What is the biggest shame, if there was a campaign "all lives matter"
and was endorsed by the black community and those known to express views
to the masses, it would have gained far more support.

Black Lives Matter makes more sense if you think of it as "Black Lives
Matter Too" or "All Lives Matter, Even (Gasp) Black Ones".

And it's not just about the life itself, i.e. it being wrong for the
police to shoot black people dead, but the life being lived. It's saying,
it hurts when people notice a black man is walking towards them so they
cross the street to avoid them. It's saying it is not right that every day
you see people looking at you and noticing their expression change as they
judge you through their prejudiced eye. It's saying being stopped and
searched by the police ten times more often than your white friends starts
to wear thin.

On 18/12/2020 11:47:38, Scion wrote:
On Fri, 18 Dec 2020 00:17:02 +0000, Fredxx wrote:

On 17/12/2020 15:46:19, GB wrote:
On 17/12/2020 13:39, Fredxx wrote:

I think all lives matter equally, does that make me a racist?

Of course it doesn't, when taken literally.

However, the 'All lives matter' slogan has been adopted by racists, who
think that Blacks should accept their position at the bottom of the
heap without complaining. So, if you say "all lives matter", most
people interpret that as you meaning that black lives don't.

So the issue here is if you start a racist campaign saying only black
lives matter, then when someone says that all lives matter they are
assumed to be racist?

I think that is arse backwards.

There's no question that innocent black people are far more likely to
be shot by police in the USA than innocent white people. Hence,
whatever you call it, the BLM movement has a good point to make.

Interestingly, a USA study in police shooting target practice facilities -
the ones where cardboard cutouts spin round and the officer has to shoot
the perp and not the victim - showed that black targets, 'perp' or
'victim', were much more likely to be shot. The kicker was that black
officers had the same skewed hit rates (allowing for a margin of
statistical error) as their white colleagues.

It should make a point that white lives are also cut short by being shot
by the police. The fact it happens less doesn't make a white life less
important.

What is the biggest shame, if there was a campaign "all lives matter"
and was endorsed by the black community and those known to express views
to the masses, it would have gained far more support.

Black Lives Matter makes more sense if you think of it as "Black Lives
Matter Too" or "All Lives Matter, Even (Gasp) Black Ones".

The latter would be a better campaign, where equality is the goal and
the difference in terms of statistics and perceived prejudices highlighted.

The trouble is that in some of the cases where black suspects were shot
there was some possible justification in terms of self-defence, and that
statistics ought to include behaviour prior to arrest. It would be great
if the same people who support Black Lives Matter would support the
banning of hand guns.

And it's not just about the life itself, i.e. it being wrong for the
police to shoot black people dead, but the life being lived. It's saying,
it hurts when people notice a black man is walking towards them so they
cross the street to avoid them.

Which is down to perceived danger. Sometimes it is a good idea for the
effected group to understand how that perception came about.

It's saying it is not right that every day
you see people looking at you and noticing their expression change as they
judge you through their prejudiced eye. It's saying being stopped and
searched by the police ten times more often than your white friends starts
to wear thin.

I have more issue with this, and recall instances where blacks driving
nice cars were more likely to be stopped. I also recall a friend whose
in a mixed race relationship and you can guess who got stopped driving
their car most. I'm white and I've been stopped once in my whole life.

I have no idea what the stats are for finding a weapon during the stop
and search and how this differs among the races.

On 18/12/2020 12:05, Tim Streater wrote:

Highlighting actual experiences is a good way to go.


"For young men of color, police use of force is among the leading causes
of death."

https://www.pnas.org/content/116/34/16793



In fact, that article highlights that men are roughly 30 times more
likely to be killed by the police than women. So, a case could be made
for "Male lives matter".

The stats show that black people are roughly 2.5 times more likely to be
killed by the police than white people.

On 18/12/2020 12:05, Tim Streater wrote:
On 18 Dec 2020 at 11:47:38 GMT, Scion wrote:

Black Lives Matter makes more sense if you think of it as "Black Lives
Matter Too" or "All Lives Matter, Even (Gasp) Black Ones".

Couched in those terms, it would most likely have been uncontroversial, and
perhaps led to more useful outcomes - even a realisation that structural
problems are at the heart of a lot of the US's troubles. This is something
that I started to have ideas about when I lived there. Trouble is tha Yanks
think theirs is the best system ever, getting them to even think about it is
difficult.

And it's not just about the life itself, i.e. it being wrong for the
police to shoot black people dead, but the life being lived. It's saying,
it hurts when people notice a black man is walking towards them so they
cross the street to avoid them. It's saying it is not right that every day
you see people looking at you and noticing their expression change as they
judge you through their prejudiced eye. It's saying being stopped and
searched by the police ten times more often than your white friends starts
to wear thin.

Highlighting actual experiences is a good way to go.

When I had shoulder length hair and an afghan fur coat I was always
being stopped by police.

They never found anything.


--
In a Time of Universal Deceit, Telling the Truth Is a Revolutionary Act.

- George Orwell

On 18/12/2020 12:38, GB wrote:
On 18/12/2020 12:05, Tim Streater wrote:

Highlighting actual experiences is a good way to go.


"For young men of color, police use of force is among the leading causes
of death."

https://www.pnas.org/content/116/34/16793



In fact, that article highlights that men are roughly 30 times more
likely to be killed by the police than women. So, a case could be made
for "Male lives matter".

The stats show that black people are roughly 2.5 times more likely to be
killed by the police than white people.




Such stats have been criticised for not taking account of that the risk
of being killed depends on contact with police; that the probability of
contact with police is increased by criminality; and that criminality is
not uniform across racial groups (for reasons which may of course
include others forms of discrimination - e.g. in education or
employment, but not by police). Summed up in

"Racial disparities in the killing of armed suspects by police are
proportional to the relative rates of violent criminality."

OTOH others argue that such analysis is also flawed.

I don't know if there's a consensus. I do know the methodology is
orders of magnitude beyond me.

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/ful...48550620916071

An example of the discussion the

"Writing almost a decade ago about policing, Goff and Kahn (2012) lament
that it would be €œshocking to think that there remained uncertainty
about how to tell whether or not racial bias troubled one of our most
important institutions€� (pp. 177€“178). They went on to address both the
dearth of nationally representative data on police use-of-force and the
lack of methodological paradigms for causal inference about the drivers
of racial disparities in extant data. Progress is being made to address
the data concerns (Garner et al., 2018; Goff et al., 2016). However,
important issues concerning statistical methodology remain largely
unaddressed."

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

In article ,
Tim Streater wrote:
Couched in those terms, it would most likely have been uncontroversial,
and perhaps led to more useful outcomes - even a realisation that
structural problems are at the heart of a lot of the US's troubles. This
is something that I started to have ideas about when I lived there.
Trouble is tha Yanks think theirs is the best system ever, getting them
to even think about it is difficult.

You've fallen into the Turnip mould of everything being black or white.

Lots of 'Yanks' realise their country isn't perfect. Probably about the
same percentage as here.

Sadly, Trump supporters make very entertaining TV. If you like a good weep.

--
*I am a nobody, and nobody is perfect; therefore I am perfect*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.