bert wrote:
In article , Harry Bloomfield
writes
Max Demian brought next idea :
How did it enable you to save 10%?

They don't, but knowing what you are using when, can empower you to
work out ways to save.
Every electricity consuming device I have has a number on it followed by
the letters KW. That tells me how much power it consumes as long as I
leave it on.

No it doesn't, it tells you the *maximum* power it will consume. Most
equipment takes only a fraction of the power indicated on the plate
most of the time.

--
Chris Green
·

On 28/11/2019 20:59, Chris Green wrote:
bert wrote:
In article , Harry Bloomfield
writes
Max Demian brought next idea :
How did it enable you to save 10%?

They don't, but knowing what you are using when, can empower you to
work out ways to save.
Every electricity consuming device I have has a number on it followed by
the letters KW. That tells me how much power it consumes as long as I
leave it on.

No it doesn't, it tells you the *maximum* power it will consume. Most
equipment takes only a fraction of the power indicated on the plate
most of the time.

A smart meter won't tell you the average consumption of a device which
is on a thermostat.

--
Max Demian

On 28/11/2019 19:16, Andrew wrote:
On 28/11/2019 11:03, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Thu, 28 Nov 2019 09:14:08 +0000, Martin Brown wrote:

They are offering bribes to get people to sign up at the moment but it
is no use if you cannot get one because of mobile phone not-spots.

Brides so they don't get hit by big fines from the goverment for not
reaching the target of x million smart meters installed by y date.

Much like the dual fuel tariffs are no damn use if there is no mains
gas.

Not that your get electricity any cheaper with a dual fuel tarrif,
only gas.


Doesn't that depend on whether you have dual-fuel with BG, or dual-fuel
with a leccy supplier ?.

Peculiarly British Gas turned out to be the cheapest *electricity* only
supplier for our village hall. Crazy or what? (no mains gas)

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On 27/11/2019 15:51, Rod Speed wrote:


"pfj" wrote in message
...
I've just changed Power supplier to E-0n and they want to fit smart
meters.Â* At the time of change I apparently agreed to smart meters to
be supplied,Â* but I never noticed it.

I've followed the discussion over the past few months
about smart meters on this group.Â* Do the objections
still apply or has experience moderated peoples views?


I do a periodic price check (I am still non smart meter)
I have found that in order to get a cheaper tariff I need to agree to a
smart meter, if I dont I must take a more expensive tariff!
From the forums I have checked there are still major problems getting
them to work properly something like 34% are having issues.

I know that one day I will be forced to have one but until then I am
more than happy to submit my own readings...I know when I have left a
light on and dont need a smart meter to inform me.

On Fri, 29 Nov 2019 01:16:57 +0000, ss wrote:

I do a periodic price check (I am still non smart meter)
I have found that in order to get a cheaper tariff I need to agree to a
smart meter, if I dont I must take a more expensive tariff!

True but the difference is fractions of a penny per unit, well less
than £50/year saving.

I know that one day I will be forced to have one but until then I am
more than happy to submit my own readings...I know when I have left a
light on and dont need a smart meter to inform me.

Aye. Pity SWMBO'd doesn't know when she has left the lights on...

--
Cheers
Dave.

"Martin Brown" wrote in message
...
On 27/11/2019 08:37, pfj wrote:
I've just changed Power supplier to E-0n and they want to fit smart
meters. At the time of change I apparently agreed to smart meters to
be supplied, but I never noticed it.

As long as it is a second generation one then it should be secure. Having
sight of what electricity you are using in real time will probably shave
10% off your bill in the first year, but after that no further
improvement. If you already have an Owl then it saves nothing.

does it matter if it's a Barn Owl or a Little Owl?

tim

"Martin Brown" wrote in message
...
On 27/11/2019 10:07, Max Demian wrote:
On 27/11/2019 09:01, Martin Brown wrote:
On 27/11/2019 08:37, pfj wrote:
I've just changed Power supplier to E-0n and they want to fit smart
meters. At the time of change I apparently agreed to smart meters to
be supplied, but I never noticed it.

As long as it is a second generation one then it should be secure.
Having sight of what electricity you are using in real time will
probably shave 10% off your bill in the first year, but after that no
further improvement.

How did it enable you to save 10%?

By reducing the 24/7 base load to an absolute minimum. There were a couple
of long lost iron wall warts sat behind furniture using a few watts each
continuously.

well I suppose if you have kids that could be a problem

but for the rest of us, unlikely to happen

TV default standby was over 20W

but turning it on/off at the switch behind the TV stand every day is just
too much hassle, whatever the saving.

and sound system for the PC consumed as much power in standby as when it
was on!

I hate my PC making sounds at me, so only turn on the sound actively when I
need it

Most of my other gear had sensible standby currents 1W.

A couple of smart master slave extension sockets later and base load was
much reduced. It depends on you being at least curious as to why power
consumption is a bit high with nothing apparently switched on.

Residual base load is now kitchen white goods, router, alarm and emergency
lights. All of which are essential to stay on power.

Central heating controller
PVR
various things with visible clocks on
cordless phone basestation(s)
night light in hallway (fortunately the ambient light sensor works on this
one, which It didn't on my previous one)

"Andrew" wrote in message
...
On 27/11/2019 09:40, John wrote:
Can't see the problems! Happy with mine.


Until you realise that far from being 'free' you will ultimately
pay for it twice over, over its lifetime.

ITYF that's: WE will ultimately pay for it twice over, over its lifetime.

whether as a specific individual you have one fitted or not

tim

"Martin Brown" wrote in message
...
On 27/11/2019 21:17, Rod Speed wrote:


"Andrew" wrote in message
...
On 27/11/2019 09:40, John wrote:
Can't see the problems! Happy with mine.


Until you realise that far from being 'free' you will ultimately
pay for it twice over, over its lifetime.

But save much more on the wages of meter reading monkeys.

That benefit goes entirely to the utility supplier. It isn't a benefit for
the consumer any more than having a Russian botnet able to thrash the
generation 1 smart meter users on and off the grid to break it.

so then the consumer won't be asked to pay for it, will they?

there's no up front charge to the consumer and any additional running costs
will be offset by whatever savings are made in the usage charges, which in
case you haven't noticed, are subject to competitive pressure.

FTAOD I'm not actually in support of this project, just pointing out that
you CAN'T claim that the companies will bank whatever savings do accrue for
themselves whilst pushing all the costs to the consumer

tim

"Michael Chare" wrote in message
...
On 27/11/2019 11:53, David Wade wrote:
On 27/11/2019 08:37, pfj wrote:
I've just changed Power supplier to E-0n and they want to fit smart
meters. At the time of change I apparently agreed to smart meters to
be supplied, but I never noticed it.

I've followed the discussion over the past few months about smart
meters on this group. Do the objections still apply or has experience
moderated peoples views?
Oeter

My main objections are that they are a waste of money, don't save me
money, and allow the supplier to remotely disconnect my supply.
In addition in the North of England they more likely not to work as the
network back to the supplier is different.

They also make it possible to determine when a property is unoccupied, or
likely to be.

and how is that useful?

Other than to a thief?

Personally, I don't buy the theory that thieves are going to have remote
access to meters and if they can read it manually then they have already
broken into my property.

If a thief wants to know if my property is potential empty before trying to
break in, he has a much simpler method than hacking my leccy meter. He can
simply ring the door bell.

This risk factor is a tabloid/Hollywood fantasy

tim

On Sat, 30 Nov 2019 09:26:41 -0000, "tim..."
wrote:



"Martin Brown" wrote in message
...
On 27/11/2019 10:07, Max Demian wrote:
On 27/11/2019 09:01, Martin Brown wrote:
On 27/11/2019 08:37, pfj wrote:
I've just changed Power supplier to E-0n and they want to fit smart
meters. At the time of change I apparently agreed to smart meters to
be supplied, but I never noticed it.

As long as it is a second generation one then it should be secure.
Having sight of what electricity you are using in real time will
probably shave 10% off your bill in the first year, but after that no
further improvement.

How did it enable you to save 10%?

By reducing the 24/7 base load to an absolute minimum. There were a couple
of long lost iron wall warts sat behind furniture using a few watts each
continuously.

well I suppose if you have kids that could be a problem

but for the rest of us, unlikely to happen

TV default standby was over 20W

but turning it on/off at the switch behind the TV stand every day is just
too much hassle, whatever the saving.


Years ago Eon gave away "intelligent" adapters that on one leg gave
normal power and on the other leg switched off if the appliance wasn't
being used. See
http://blog.coultard.com/2014/02/eon...n-standby.html

It needs to be trained to your remote so it will also turn on when you
hit the remote for On.

I have a 4-way attached to that outlet so everything else that would
require the TV to work (DVD player, Wii etc) is also off when the TV
is off.

Presumably similar devices are available.

However my latest TV has a standby power consumption of 0.5W and given
that the telly is on about 25% of the time (wife likes moving
wallpaper) thats' about 3Kwh saving on standby over a year.

(Note to self: Powered on is 89W)

--
AnthonyL

Why do scientists need to BELIEVE in anything?

"AnthonyL" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 30 Nov 2019 09:26:41 -0000, "tim..."
wrote:



"Martin Brown" wrote in message
...
On 27/11/2019 10:07, Max Demian wrote:
On 27/11/2019 09:01, Martin Brown wrote:
On 27/11/2019 08:37, pfj wrote:
I've just changed Power supplier to E-0n and they want to fit smart
meters. At the time of change I apparently agreed to smart meters to
be supplied, but I never noticed it.

As long as it is a second generation one then it should be secure.
Having sight of what electricity you are using in real time will
probably shave 10% off your bill in the first year, but after that no
further improvement.

How did it enable you to save 10%?

By reducing the 24/7 base load to an absolute minimum. There were a
couple
of long lost iron wall warts sat behind furniture using a few watts each
continuously.

well I suppose if you have kids that could be a problem

but for the rest of us, unlikely to happen

TV default standby was over 20W

but turning it on/off at the switch behind the TV stand every day is just
too much hassle, whatever the saving.


Years ago Eon gave away "intelligent" adapters that on one leg gave
normal power and on the other leg switched off if the appliance wasn't
being used. See
http://blog.coultard.com/2014/02/eon...n-standby.html

ISTR something like this being pitched on Dragons Den

I can't recall the result

It needs to be trained to your remote so it will also turn on when you
hit the remote for On.

I have a 4-way attached to that outlet so everything else that would
require the TV to work (DVD player, Wii etc) is also off when the TV
is off.

well there's the rub

I need my WiFi and my PVR(s) to remain on even though the TV is off

I don't have a DVD player and certainly not a games console

tim

On Sat, 30 Nov 2019 14:40:02 -0000, "tim..."
wrote:



"AnthonyL" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 30 Nov 2019 09:26:41 -0000, "tim..."
wrote:



"Martin Brown" wrote in message
...
On 27/11/2019 10:07, Max Demian wrote:
On 27/11/2019 09:01, Martin Brown wrote:
On 27/11/2019 08:37, pfj wrote:
I've just changed Power supplier to E-0n and they want to fit smart
meters. At the time of change I apparently agreed to smart meters to
be supplied, but I never noticed it.

As long as it is a second generation one then it should be secure.
Having sight of what electricity you are using in real time will
probably shave 10% off your bill in the first year, but after that no
further improvement.

How did it enable you to save 10%?

By reducing the 24/7 base load to an absolute minimum. There were a
couple
of long lost iron wall warts sat behind furniture using a few watts each
continuously.

well I suppose if you have kids that could be a problem

but for the rest of us, unlikely to happen

TV default standby was over 20W

but turning it on/off at the switch behind the TV stand every day is just
too much hassle, whatever the saving.


Years ago Eon gave away "intelligent" adapters that on one leg gave
normal power and on the other leg switched off if the appliance wasn't
being used. See
http://blog.coultard.com/2014/02/eon...n-standby.html

ISTR something like this being pitched on Dragons Den

I can't recall the result

It needs to be trained to your remote so it will also turn on when you
hit the remote for On.

I have a 4-way attached to that outlet so everything else that would
require the TV to work (DVD player, Wii etc) is also off when the TV
is off.

well there's the rub

I need my WiFi and my PVR(s) to remain on even though the TV is off


I said Wii not WiFi, and my PVR is on the "always on" leg, rather
pointless otherwise.


--
AnthonyL

Why do scientists need to BELIEVE in anything?

On 30/11/2019 14:40, tim... wrote:

Years ago Eon gave away "intelligent" adapters that on one leg gave
normal power and on the other leg switched off if the appliance wasn't
being used.Â* See
http://blog.coultard.com/2014/02/eon...n-standby.html

ISTR something like this being pitched on Dragons Den

I can't recall the result



Power Safer PSX failed product Review and Teardown
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMfYSXaAj5k

They didn't get the investment, but went into production. Failed
massively and hundreds ended up on the shelves of Poundland, A pound for
for a useful supply of components.

Search for "Powersafer PSX" on ebay.

--
Adrian C

"Adrian Caspersz" wrote in message
...
On 30/11/2019 14:40, tim... wrote:

Years ago Eon gave away "intelligent" adapters that on one leg gave
normal power and on the other leg switched off if the appliance wasn't
being used. See
http://blog.coultard.com/2014/02/eon...n-standby.html

ISTR something like this being pitched on Dragons Den

I can't recall the result


Power Safer PSX failed product Review and Teardown
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMfYSXaAj5k

They didn't get the investment, but went into production. Failed massively
and hundreds ended up on the shelves of Poundland, A pound for for a
useful supply of components.

Search for "Powersafer PSX" on ebay.

still seems to be being sold new for 20 quid

the sellers obviously don't think it's a failed product

On 30/11/2019 12:54, AnthonyL wrote:
Years ago Eon gave away "intelligent" adapters that on one leg gave
normal power and on the other leg switched off if the appliance wasn't
being used. See
http://blog.coultard.com/2014/02/eon...n-standby.html

I have a very similar one here - but it's marked "desktop computer"
which is what is plugged into it. The other port has the monitor and
sound system amp, so they get powered off when the PC is off (or in deep
enough sleep).


Andy

On 30/11/2019 14:40, tim... wrote:

"AnthonyL" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 30 Nov 2019 09:26:41 -0000, "tim..."
wrote:

"Martin Brown" wrote in message

TV default standby was over 20W

but turning it on/off at the switch behind the TV stand every day is
just
too much hassle, whatever the saving.

Actually it is almost physically impossible to hit the mains switch
behind the TV without a 6' long pole and a great deal of skill.

Years ago Eon gave away "intelligent" adapters that on one leg gave
normal power and on the other leg switched off if the appliance wasn't
being used.Â* See
http://blog.coultard.com/2014/02/eon...n-standby.html

ISTR something like this being pitched on Dragons Den

I can't recall the result

Several brands of smart master slave sockets are available intended for
PCs and TV/Hifi systems with numerous peripherals.

It needs to be trained to your remote so it will also turn on when you
hit the remote for On.

I have a 4-way attached to that outlet so everything else that would
require the TV to work (DVD player, Wii etc) is also off when the TV
is off.

well there's the rub

I need my WiFi and my PVR(s) to remain on even though the TV is off

They have thought of that.
Eon's free one has one master, one slave and one permanently on socket.

I don't have a DVD player and certainly not a games console

tim

If you have no other electrical kit then it obviously won't help.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown