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Default Smart meters not smart enough

According to EDF, the current smart meters cannot cope with Economy 7
systems like mine.
However since all this about how hackable the current ones are and how the
comms has had to be redesigned etc, I really feel they should lay off
installing them till they are sure they work on all systems, cope with mixed
tariffs and are not hackable.
Brian

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Default Smart meters not smart enough

"Brian Gaff" writes:

According to EDF, the current smart meters cannot cope with Economy 7
systems like mine.

However since all this about how hackable the current ones are and how
the comms has had to be redesigned etc, I really feel they should lay
off installing them till they are sure they work on all systems, cope
with mixed tariffs and are not hackable.


Sounds like it's not going to happen.

https://www.lightbluetouchpaper.org/...-smart-meters/

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/con...er-revolution/


--
Alan J. Wylie http://www.wylie.me.uk/

Dance like no-one's watching. / Encrypt like everyone is.
Security is inversely proportional to convenience
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Default Smart meters not smart enough

On Tue, 23 May 2017 18:46:33 +0100, Alan J. Wylie wrote:

However since all this about how hackable the current ones are and

how
the comms has had to be redesigned etc, I really feel they should

lay
off installing them till they are sure they work on all systems,

cope
with mixed tariffs and are not hackable.


Sounds like it's not going to happen.

https://www.lightbluetouchpaper.org/...-smart-meters/

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/con...-ones-noticed-
tories-quietly-killing-smart-meter-revolution/


Has the Smart Meter program ever been compulsary?

--
Cheers
Dave.



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Default Smart meters not smart enough

On Tue, 23 May 2017 19:01:02 +0100 (BST), "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:

On Tue, 23 May 2017 18:46:33 +0100, Alan J. Wylie wrote:

However since all this about how hackable the current ones are and

how
the comms has had to be redesigned etc, I really feel they should

lay
off installing them till they are sure they work on all systems,

cope
with mixed tariffs and are not hackable.


Sounds like it's not going to happen.

https://www.lightbluetouchpaper.org/...-smart-meters/

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/con...-ones-noticed-
tories-quietly-killing-smart-meter-revolution/


Has the Smart Meter program ever been compulsary?


Not yet, (although they don't make it obvious that you can decline)
but what's to stop a supplier saying we're changing your meter on
safety grounds, because your current one is x years old and we only
fit smart ones now?

--

Graham.
%Profound_observation%
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Default Smart meters not smart enough

In article l.net,
"Dave Liquorice" writes:
On Tue, 23 May 2017 18:46:33 +0100, Alan J. Wylie wrote:

However since all this about how hackable the current ones are and

how
the comms has had to be redesigned etc, I really feel they should

lay
off installing them till they are sure they work on all systems,

cope
with mixed tariffs and are not hackable.


Sounds like it's not going to happen.

https://www.lightbluetouchpaper.org/...-smart-meters/

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/con...-ones-noticed-
tories-quietly-killing-smart-meter-revolution/


Has the Smart Meter program ever been compulsary?


Yes it was originally back when the smart meter industry convinced
the government it would save so much electricity they could get away
without building so many power stations. Since then, every study
(ignoring those by the smart meter industry and some naive greens)
has shown no savings, particularly those based on real life experience
rather than just theory.

However, it ceased being compulsory a while back - that's not a new
change in the manifesto.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]


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Default Smart meters not smart enough

On Tue, 23 May 2017 19:09:50 +0100, Chris Hogg wrote:

On Tue, 23 May 2017 18:28:41 +0100, "Brian Gaff"
wrote:

According to EDF, the current smart meters cannot cope with Economy 7
systems like mine.
However since all this about how hackable the current ones are and how the
comms has had to be redesigned etc, I really feel they should lay off
installing them till they are sure they work on all systems, cope with mixed
tariffs and are not hackable.
Brian


'Classic FM' is carrying adverts ATM encouraging people to install
them. Yet at the same time, TPTB know they're flawed. How sensible is
that?


The ads are all over the place, and generally use the argument that
you wouldn't allow the supplier of a different commodity to estimate
your bill.

In the past, over-estimated bills have worked in my favour when the
price per unit was about to increase.


--

Graham.
%Profound_observation%
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Default Smart meters not smart enough

Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Tue, 23 May 2017 18:46:33 +0100, Alan J. Wylie wrote:

However since all this about how hackable the current ones are and
how the comms has had to be redesigned etc, I really feel they
should lay off installing them till they are sure they work on all
systems, cope with mixed tariffs and are not hackable.


Sounds like it's not going to happen.

https://www.lightbluetouchpaper.org/...-smart-meters/

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/con...-ones-noticed-
tories-quietly-killing-smart-meter-revolution/


Has the Smart Meter program ever been compulsary?


Maybe, it's not now though.

My supplier keeps contacting me to arrange fitting, even after I've told
them I don't want them. The Gov's stance now is 'If your supplier tells you
you *must* have smart meters fitted, contact citizens advice and offgem as
this is false, no one has to have them fitted if they choose not to'


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Default Smart meters not smart enough

On Tue, 23 May 2017 18:28:41 +0100, "Brian Gaff"
wrote:

According to EDF, the current smart meters cannot cope with Economy 7
systems like mine.
However since all this about how hackable the current ones are and how the
comms has had to be redesigned etc, I really feel they should lay off
installing them till they are sure they work on all systems, cope with mixed
tariffs and are not hackable.
Brian


I received one in 2012 (I think) as part of a pilot. I got a recent
call from Scottish Power (or its subcontractors?) offering me a new
smart meter. I asked if it was compulsory. He said no. I said in
that case I was declining the offer.

I then got a letter from Scottish Power. I contacted customer
services to ask if the meter to be installed would be SMETS1 or
SMETS2. They replied to say that SMETS2 meters would become available
at some time in the future and they would (a) note my decision to
decline meantime and (b) contact me once SMETS2 meters become
available.

Methinks the cat is well and truly out of the bag.
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Default Smart meters not smart enough

On Tue, 23 May 2017 18:20:42 -0000 (UTC), Andrew Gabriel wrote:


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/con...-ones-noticed-
tories-quietly-killing-smart-meter-revolution/


Has the Smart Meter program ever been compulsary?


Yes it was originally back when the smart meter industry convinced
the government it would save so much electricity they could get away
without building so many power stations. ...

... However, it ceased being compulsory a while back - that's not a new
change in the manifesto.


Thanks Andrew, I didn't think it was a new chnage, so yet another
political non-story.

--
Cheers
Dave.



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Default Smart meters not smart enough

On Tue, 23 May 2017 19:40:04 +0100, "Phil L"
wrote:

Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Tue, 23 May 2017 18:46:33 +0100, Alan J. Wylie wrote:

However since all this about how hackable the current ones are and
how the comms has had to be redesigned etc, I really feel they
should lay off installing them till they are sure they work on all
systems, cope with mixed tariffs and are not hackable.

Sounds like it's not going to happen.

https://www.lightbluetouchpaper.org/...-smart-meters/

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/con...-ones-noticed-
tories-quietly-killing-smart-meter-revolution/


Has the Smart Meter program ever been compulsary?


Maybe, it's not now though.

My supplier keeps contacting me to arrange fitting, even after I've told
them I don't want them. The Gov's stance now is 'If your supplier tells you
you *must* have smart meters fitted, contact citizens advice and offgem as
this is false, no one has to have them fitted if they choose not to'

If mine does that I will tell them I regard these calls as marketing,
I am withdrawing my consent to marketing calls* and will report them
to the Information Commissioner and see what they make of that.

* I appreciate such intimation requires to be in written form.


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Default Smart meters not smart enough

Brian Gaff wrote:
According to EDF, the current smart meters cannot cope with Economy 7
systems like mine.
However since all this about how hackable the current ones are and how the
comms has had to be redesigned etc, I really feel they should lay off
installing them till they are sure they work on all systems, cope with mixed
tariffs and are not hackable.
Brian

You seem to overlook how things are done these days.
EDF and the like subcontract out the installation of smart meters to
another organisation because they don't want the head count of the extra
fitters on their books. The subcontractors are incentivised to fit
meters at a certain rate under the terms of the contract. The Contract
will also have punitive terms in it to stop EDF (or others) doing
anything to slow down the rate of installation. there will also be
cancellation terms so the fitters get most of their costs of disposing
of staff in the event of termination.

The net effect of this is that it takes someone with real balls to call
a halt to the fitting contract or delay it until Smets2 meters are
ready, approved and the fitters have been retrained on how to commission
them.
In fact the contract terms are often written such that it costs more to
terminate the contract than let it run on or modify it.

You might think this is cynicism but in a past life I've been involved
with govt contracts that were like this and even when a requirement had
changed, it was decided that the original deliverables were still to be
made and a new contract issued to modify the equipment to a new requirement.
Such is the nonsense of firm price contracting over the far more
sensible predecessor of cost-plus contracting where the customer (govt)
could modify the requirements during the contract and the contractor was
paid his audited costs plus a modest margin on the capital employed
during the work.

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In article , Chris Hogg
writes
On Tue, 23 May 2017 18:28:41 +0100, "Brian Gaff"
wrote:

According to EDF, the current smart meters cannot cope with Economy 7
systems like mine.
However since all this about how hackable the current ones are and how the
comms has had to be redesigned etc, I really feel they should lay off
installing them till they are sure they work on all systems, cope with mixed
tariffs and are not hackable.
Brian


'Classic FM' is carrying adverts ATM encouraging people to install
them. Yet at the same time, TPTB know they're flawed. How sensible is
that?

According to another oft-repeated advert on Classic FM an advert must be
honest accurate and true - or words to that effect. An ad on behalf of
the Advertising Standards Agency.
--
bert
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Default Smart meters not smart enough

It is probably precisely because of the cock ups that this is happening.
Pity as I was looking forward to having a talking meter that for once I can
be sure the reading is correct.
Brian

--
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This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"Alan J. Wylie" wrote in message
...
"Brian Gaff" writes:

According to EDF, the current smart meters cannot cope with Economy 7
systems like mine.

However since all this about how hackable the current ones are and how
the comms has had to be redesigned etc, I really feel they should lay
off installing them till they are sure they work on all systems, cope
with mixed tariffs and are not hackable.


Sounds like it's not going to happen.

https://www.lightbluetouchpaper.org/...-smart-meters/

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/con...er-revolution/


--
Alan J. Wylie
http://www.wylie.me.uk/

Dance like no-one's watching. / Encrypt like everyone is.
Security is inversely proportional to convenience



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Default Smart meters not smart enough

For the industry it was supposed to be complete by 2020, but since the
debacle about them not working with different energy companies systems and
the gchq leak that the current ones are easy to hack, I suspect this will be
dropped or at least moved off anothe five years as the costs involved in re
replacing the current ones must be paid for by somebody, and since they
promise to cap bills that does not leave anyone to pay it does it?
Brian

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"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
idual.net...
On Tue, 23 May 2017 18:46:33 +0100, Alan J. Wylie wrote:

However since all this about how hackable the current ones are and

how
the comms has had to be redesigned etc, I really feel they should

lay
off installing them till they are sure they work on all systems,

cope
with mixed tariffs and are not hackable.


Sounds like it's not going to happen.

https://www.lightbluetouchpaper.org/...-smart-meters/

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/con...-ones-noticed-
tories-quietly-killing-smart-meter-revolution/


Has the Smart Meter program ever been compulsary?

--
Cheers
Dave.





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Default Smart meters not smart enough

On 23/05/2017 18:28, Brian Gaff wrote:
According to EDF, the current smart meters cannot cope with Economy 7
systems like mine.


I thought that was the whole "point" of smart meters - demand management
or whatever they call it - different prices at different times of day.

All of this crap about no more estimated bills and see how much you
are using instantaneously was just a fortunate side effect.

--
Chris B (News)


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Chris B wrote:

Brian Gaff wrote:

According to EDF, the current smart meters cannot cope with Economy 7


I thought that was the whole "point" of smart meters - demand management
or whatever they call it - different prices at different times of day.


I found the spec sheet for my meter and it does have the ability to
record usage into different registers at different rates at different
times of day - but I do remember NOT being on E7 was a pre-requisite for
getting from Eon.
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