I've just changed Power supplier to E-0n and they want to fit smart
meters. At the time of change I apparently agreed to smart meters to
be supplied, but I never noticed it.

I've followed the discussion over the past few months about smart
meters on this group. Do the objections still apply or has experience
moderated peoples views?
Oeter

On 27/11/2019 08:37, pfj wrote:
I've just changed Power supplier to E-0n and they want to fit smart
meters. At the time of change I apparently agreed to smart meters to
be supplied, but I never noticed it.


Don't, you'll be throwing millions of meter readers out of work. The
meters are radioactive. Criminals will raid your house in the holidays.
The in-house displays listens to your deep thoughts. Your electricity
gets billed in kVAh instead of kWh. The cable screws will be never
tightened enough and your house will burn down after 10 minutes of use.
A man will ring from India and want your bank details to make your
electric meter secure.

--
Adrian C

Tee, the answer as always is somewhere between paranoia and sensible. I
personally don't think there will be much difference, since eventually you
will shove the readout in a drawer and forget about it.
Brian

--
----- --
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Adrian Caspersz" wrote in message
...
On 27/11/2019 08:37, pfj wrote:
I've just changed Power supplier to E-0n and they want to fit smart
meters. At the time of change I apparently agreed to smart meters to
be supplied, but I never noticed it.


Don't, you'll be throwing millions of meter readers out of work. The
meters are radioactive. Criminals will raid your house in the holidays.
The in-house displays listens to your deep thoughts. Your electricity gets
billed in kVAh instead of kWh. The cable screws will be never tightened
enough and your house will burn down after 10 minutes of use. A man will
ring from India and want your bank details to make your electric meter
secure.

--
Adrian C

Tee, the answer as always is somewhere between paranoia and sensible. I
personally don't think there will be much difference, since eventually you
will shove the readout in a drawer and forget about it.
Brian

--
----- --
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Adrian Caspersz" wrote in message
...
On 27/11/2019 08:37, pfj wrote:
I've just changed Power supplier to E-0n and they want to fit smart
meters. At the time of change I apparently agreed to smart meters to
be supplied, but I never noticed it.


Don't, you'll be throwing millions of meter readers out of work. The
meters are radioactive. Criminals will raid your house in the holidays.
The in-house displays listens to your deep thoughts. Your electricity gets
billed in kVAh instead of kWh. The cable screws will be never tightened
enough and your house will burn down after 10 minutes of use. A man will
ring from India and want your bank details to make your electric meter
secure.

--
Adrian C

On 27/11/2019 08:37, pfj wrote:
I've just changed Power supplier to E-0n and they want to fit smart
meters. At the time of change I apparently agreed to smart meters to
be supplied, but I never noticed it.

As long as it is a second generation one then it should be secure.
Having sight of what electricity you are using in real time will
probably shave 10% off your bill in the first year, but after that no
further improvement. If you already have an Owl then it saves nothing.

I've followed the discussion over the past few months about smart
meters on this group. Do the objections still apply or has experience
moderated peoples views?
Oeter

First generation ones are complete crap, stop working when you change
supplier and sometimes give readings wrong by insane amounts. Apart from
that they are OK but if you have no mobile signal they cannot fit them.

Another situation where there can be problems I have seen with a 1940's
era house that has never been rewired is if they fitted a new meter they
said they would have to set the main supply fuse to 20A! It was academic
since not having any mobile signal trumped everything so the guy left
without doing a thing. Hazards of living against a cliff face.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

Martin Brown wrote:

sometimes give readings wrong by insane amounts

No UK models were shown to use Rogowski coils ..

On 27/11/2019 09:06, Andy Burns wrote:
Martin Brown wrote:

sometimes give readings wrong by insane amounts

No UK models were shown to use Rogowski coils ..

Doesn't seem to prevent them giving crazy readings from time to time
that the computer takes at face value.

Even in the days of manual readings you get get some pretty insane
bills. They did it to our VH because the system thought we had a 6 digit
meter and the meter only had 5 digit display. The clueless meter reading
muppet zero padded at the wrong end and we had a quarterly electricity
bill for half the national debt. It was 9x a decade of actual usage!

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On 27/11/2019 09:01, Martin Brown wrote:
On 27/11/2019 08:37, pfj wrote:
I've just changed Power supplier to E-0n and they want to fit smart
meters.Â* At the time of change I apparently agreed to smart meters to
be supplied,Â* but I never noticed it.

As long as it is a second generation one then it should be secure.
Having sight of what electricity you are using in real time will
probably shave 10% off your bill in the first year, but after that no
further improvement.

How did it enable you to save 10%?

If you already have an Owl then it saves nothing.
Owl?

--
Max Demian

Max Demian brought next idea :
How did it enable you to save 10%?

They don't, but knowing what you are using when, can empower you to
work out ways to save.

On 27/11/2019 11:22, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Max Demian brought next idea :
How did it enable you to save 10%?

They don't, but knowing what you are using when, can empower you to work
out ways to save.

Does empower mean let?

Bill

On 27/11/2019 19:13, Bill Wright wrote:
On 27/11/2019 11:22, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Max Demian brought next idea :
How did it enable you to save 10%?

They don't, but knowing what you are using when, can empower you to
work out ways to save.

Does empower mean let?

I think it means overcome a power stopping you. This is why women say
they need to be empowered.

--
Max Demian

In article , Harry Bloomfield
writes
Max Demian brought next idea :
How did it enable you to save 10%?

They don't, but knowing what you are using when, can empower you to
work out ways to save.
Every electricity consuming device I have has a number on it followed by
the letters KW. That tells me how much power it consumes as long as I
leave it on.
--
bert

bert wrote:
In article , Harry Bloomfield
writes
Max Demian brought next idea :
How did it enable you to save 10%?

They don't, but knowing what you are using when, can empower you to
work out ways to save.
Every electricity consuming device I have has a number on it followed by
the letters KW. That tells me how much power it consumes as long as I
leave it on.

No it doesn't, it tells you the *maximum* power it will consume. Most
equipment takes only a fraction of the power indicated on the plate
most of the time.

--
Chris Green
·

On 27/11/2019 10:07, Max Demian wrote:
On 27/11/2019 09:01, Martin Brown wrote:
On 27/11/2019 08:37, pfj wrote:
I've just changed Power supplier to E-0n and they want to fit smart
meters.Â* At the time of change I apparently agreed to smart meters to
be supplied,Â* but I never noticed it.

As long as it is a second generation one then it should be secure.
Having sight of what electricity you are using in real time will
probably shave 10% off your bill in the first year, but after that no
further improvement.

How did it enable you to save 10%?

By reducing the 24/7 base load to an absolute minimum. There were a
couple of long lost iron wall warts sat behind furniture using a few
watts each continuously. TV default standby was over 20W and sound
system for the PC consumed as much power in standby as when it was on!

Most of my other gear had sensible standby currents 1W.

A couple of smart master slave extension sockets later and base load was
much reduced. It depends on you being at least curious as to why power
consumption is a bit high with nothing apparently switched on.

Residual base load is now kitchen white goods, router, alarm and
emergency lights. All of which are essential to stay on power.

If you already have an Owl then it saves nothing.
Owl?

DIY clip on smart meter (other brands are available).

https://www.amazon.co.uk/OWL-Micro-W...dp/B007W0SQ3Y/

About £40 and you will save that easily in the first couple of years.
Some green suppliers will give you one for free and possibly a smart 3
way master slave socket to go with it if you pick the right tariff.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

"Martin Brown" wrote in message
...
On 27/11/2019 10:07, Max Demian wrote:
On 27/11/2019 09:01, Martin Brown wrote:
On 27/11/2019 08:37, pfj wrote:
I've just changed Power supplier to E-0n and they want to fit smart
meters. At the time of change I apparently agreed to smart meters to
be supplied, but I never noticed it.

As long as it is a second generation one then it should be secure.
Having sight of what electricity you are using in real time will
probably shave 10% off your bill in the first year, but after that no
further improvement.

How did it enable you to save 10%?

By reducing the 24/7 base load to an absolute minimum. There were a couple
of long lost iron wall warts sat behind furniture using a few watts each
continuously.

well I suppose if you have kids that could be a problem

but for the rest of us, unlikely to happen

TV default standby was over 20W

but turning it on/off at the switch behind the TV stand every day is just
too much hassle, whatever the saving.

and sound system for the PC consumed as much power in standby as when it
was on!

I hate my PC making sounds at me, so only turn on the sound actively when I
need it

Most of my other gear had sensible standby currents 1W.

A couple of smart master slave extension sockets later and base load was
much reduced. It depends on you being at least curious as to why power
consumption is a bit high with nothing apparently switched on.

Residual base load is now kitchen white goods, router, alarm and emergency
lights. All of which are essential to stay on power.

Central heating controller
PVR
various things with visible clocks on
cordless phone basestation(s)
night light in hallway (fortunately the ambient light sensor works on this
one, which It didn't on my previous one)

On Sat, 30 Nov 2019 09:26:41 -0000, "tim..."
wrote:



"Martin Brown" wrote in message
...
On 27/11/2019 10:07, Max Demian wrote:
On 27/11/2019 09:01, Martin Brown wrote:
On 27/11/2019 08:37, pfj wrote:
I've just changed Power supplier to E-0n and they want to fit smart
meters. At the time of change I apparently agreed to smart meters to
be supplied, but I never noticed it.

As long as it is a second generation one then it should be secure.
Having sight of what electricity you are using in real time will
probably shave 10% off your bill in the first year, but after that no
further improvement.

How did it enable you to save 10%?

By reducing the 24/7 base load to an absolute minimum. There were a couple
of long lost iron wall warts sat behind furniture using a few watts each
continuously.

well I suppose if you have kids that could be a problem

but for the rest of us, unlikely to happen

TV default standby was over 20W

but turning it on/off at the switch behind the TV stand every day is just
too much hassle, whatever the saving.


Years ago Eon gave away "intelligent" adapters that on one leg gave
normal power and on the other leg switched off if the appliance wasn't
being used. See
http://blog.coultard.com/2014/02/eon...n-standby.html

It needs to be trained to your remote so it will also turn on when you
hit the remote for On.

I have a 4-way attached to that outlet so everything else that would
require the TV to work (DVD player, Wii etc) is also off when the TV
is off.

Presumably similar devices are available.

However my latest TV has a standby power consumption of 0.5W and given
that the telly is on about 25% of the time (wife likes moving
wallpaper) thats' about 3Kwh saving on standby over a year.

(Note to self: Powered on is 89W)

--
AnthonyL

Why do scientists need to BELIEVE in anything?

In article , Max
Demian writes
On 27/11/2019 09:01, Martin Brown wrote:
On 27/11/2019 08:37, pfj wrote:
I've just changed Power supplier to E-0n and they want to fit smart
meters.* At the time of change I apparently agreed to smart meters to
be supplied,* but I never noticed it.
As long as it is a second generation one then it should be secure.
Having sight of what electricity you are using in real time will
probably shave 10% off your bill in the first year, but after that no
further improvement.

How did it enable you to save 10%?

Estimates I've seen are £11.00. People tend to stop taking any notice
after the first month.
If you already have an Owl then it saves nothing.
Owl?


--
bert

On 27/11/2019 09:01, Martin Brown wrote:
On 27/11/2019 08:37, pfj wrote:
I've just changed Power supplier to E-0n and they want to fit smart
meters.Â* At the time of change I apparently agreed to smart meters to
be supplied,Â* but I never noticed it.

As long as it is a second generation one then it should be secure.
Having sight of what electricity you are using in real time will
probably shave 10% off your bill in the first year, but after that no
further improvement. If you already have an Owl then it saves nothing.

I've followed the discussion over the past few months about smart
meters on this group.Â* Do the objections still apply or has experience
moderated peoples views?
Oeter

First generationÂ* ones are complete crap, stop working when you change
supplier and sometimes give readings wrong by insane amounts. Apart from
that they are OK but if you have no mobile signal they cannot fit them.

Another situation where there can be problems I have seen with a 1940's
era house that has never been rewired is if they fitted a new meter they
said they would have to set the main supply fuse to 20A! It was academic
since not having any mobile signal trumped everything so the guy left
without doing a thing. Hazards of living against a cliff face.


They didn't mention the VIR wiring then ?.

"Martin Brown" wrote in message
...
On 27/11/2019 08:37, pfj wrote:
I've just changed Power supplier to E-0n and they want to fit smart
meters. At the time of change I apparently agreed to smart meters to
be supplied, but I never noticed it.

As long as it is a second generation one then it should be secure. Having
sight of what electricity you are using in real time will probably shave
10% off your bill in the first year, but after that no further
improvement. If you already have an Owl then it saves nothing.

does it matter if it's a Barn Owl or a Little Owl?

tim

On Wed, 27 Nov 2019 08:37:03 +0000, pfj wrote:

I've just changed Power supplier to E-0n and they want to fit smart
meters. At the time of change I apparently agreed to smart meters to be
supplied, but I never noticed it.

I moved from E.on a few months ago for this reason (and the fact that
they had jacked up the prices a lot; I had done some fancy footwork
before and was on a very cheap tariff which expired in April).

So Energy have been trouble free and have actually just reduced my
monthly payment. No meter compulsion and no exit fee.



--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

Can't see the problems! Happy with mine.

On 27/11/2019 09:40, John wrote:
Can't see the problems! Happy with mine.


Until you realise that far from being 'free' you will ultimately
pay for it twice over, over its lifetime.

"Andrew" wrote in message
...
On 27/11/2019 09:40, John wrote:
Can't see the problems! Happy with mine.


Until you realise that far from being 'free' you will ultimately
pay for it twice over, over its lifetime.

But save much more on the wages of meter reading monkeys.

On 27/11/2019 21:17, Rod Speed wrote:


"Andrew" wrote in message
...
On 27/11/2019 09:40, John wrote:
Can't see the problems! Happy with mine.


Until you realise that far from being 'free' you will ultimately
pay for it twice over, over its lifetime.

But save much more on the wages of meter reading monkeys.

That benefit goes entirely to the utility supplier. It isn't a benefit
for the consumer any more than having a Russian botnet able to thrash
the generation 1 smart meter users on and off the grid to break it.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

"Martin Brown" wrote in message
...
On 27/11/2019 21:17, Rod Speed wrote:


"Andrew" wrote in message
...
On 27/11/2019 09:40, John wrote:
Can't see the problems! Happy with mine.


Until you realise that far from being 'free' you will ultimately
pay for it twice over, over its lifetime.

But save much more on the wages of meter reading monkeys.

That benefit goes entirely to the utility supplier.

Not when they can offer lower rates when their costs are lower.

It isn't a benefit for the consumer

Of course it is when they can offer lower rates.

any more than having a Russian botnet able to thrash the generation 1
smart meter users on and off the grid to break it.

How odd that they dont bother.

"Martin Brown" wrote in message
...
On 27/11/2019 21:17, Rod Speed wrote:


"Andrew" wrote in message
...
On 27/11/2019 09:40, John wrote:
Can't see the problems! Happy with mine.


Until you realise that far from being 'free' you will ultimately
pay for it twice over, over its lifetime.

But save much more on the wages of meter reading monkeys.

That benefit goes entirely to the utility supplier. It isn't a benefit for
the consumer any more than having a Russian botnet able to thrash the
generation 1 smart meter users on and off the grid to break it.

so then the consumer won't be asked to pay for it, will they?

there's no up front charge to the consumer and any additional running costs
will be offset by whatever savings are made in the usage charges, which in
case you haven't noticed, are subject to competitive pressure.

FTAOD I'm not actually in support of this project, just pointing out that
you CAN'T claim that the companies will bank whatever savings do accrue for
themselves whilst pushing all the costs to the consumer

tim

On Thu, 28 Nov 2019 08:17:43 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:


But save much more on the wages of meter reading monkeys.

ONLY in your retarded monopolist-admiring senile "mind", senile idiot!

--
about senile Rot Speed:
"This is like having a conversation with someone with brain damage."
MID:

"Andrew" wrote in message
...
On 27/11/2019 09:40, John wrote:
Can't see the problems! Happy with mine.


Until you realise that far from being 'free' you will ultimately
pay for it twice over, over its lifetime.

ITYF that's: WE will ultimately pay for it twice over, over its lifetime.

whether as a specific individual you have one fitted or not

tim

On 27/11/2019 08:37, pfj wrote:
I've just changed Power supplier to E-0n and they want to fit smart
meters. At the time of change I apparently agreed to smart meters to
be supplied, but I never noticed it.

I've followed the discussion over the past few months about smart
meters on this group. Do the objections still apply or has experience
moderated peoples views?
Oeter


I did get a similar claim from E-On, when I asked for evidence of this
they backed off. They accepted by refusal to have one but they did say
that they would keep nagging!

--
Michael Chare

I take it that the gas meter has to be changed. Just wondering what the replacement is like and how much of the pipework the fitters alter? I ask because of the way additions have been made to the pipes means the earth strap is not quite correctly placed and the cut off valve lever has been awkwardly placed tight up against the wall.

Richard

on 27/11/2019, Tricky Dicky supposed :
I take it that the gas meter has to be changed. Just wondering what the
replacement is like and how much of the pipework the fitters alter? I ask
because of the way additions have been made to the pipes means the earth
strap is not quite correctly placed and the cut off valve lever has been
awkwardly placed tight up against the wall.

That depends.

The gas meters are around the same size as a standard meter, so should
fit in place of the old one. Having said that, a friend of mine had his
in a very awkward spot next to his front door and buried behind pipes,
rather than in a proper meter cupboard. The first installer gave up
untouched and it took two installers working together and entire
morning to eventually sort the mess out and fit the meter.

My own meters are in proper cupboards with easy access, no modification
was necessary and both meters dropped straight in within an hour.

They still don't work though, I keep changing suppliers :-)

On Wed, 27 Nov 2019 11:16:48 GMT, Harry Bloomfield, Esq.
wrote:

on 27/11/2019, Tricky Dicky supposed :
I take it that the gas meter has to be changed. Just wondering what the
replacement is like and how much of the pipework the fitters alter? I ask
because of the way additions have been made to the pipes means the earth
strap is not quite correctly placed and the cut off valve lever has been
awkwardly placed tight up against the wall.

That depends.

The gas meters are around the same size as a standard meter, so should
fit in place of the old one. Having said that, a friend of mine had his
in a very awkward spot next to his front door and buried behind pipes,
rather than in a proper meter cupboard. The first installer gave up
untouched and it took two installers working together and entire
morning to eventually sort the mess out and fit the meter.

My own meters are in proper cupboards with easy access, no modification
was necessary and both meters dropped straight in within an hour.

They still don't work though, I keep changing suppliers :-)

Do they try to impose any rule that the meters have to be 1 metre
apart?

Scott wrote:

Do they try to impose any rule that the meters have to be 1 metre
apart?

That sort of sounds amusing! :-)

--
Chris Green
·

On 27/11/2019 08:37, pfj wrote:
I've just changed Power supplier to E-0n and they want to fit smart
meters. At the time of change I apparently agreed to smart meters to
be supplied, but I never noticed it.

I've followed the discussion over the past few months about smart
meters on this group. Do the objections still apply or has experience
moderated peoples views?
Oeter

My main objections are that they are a waste of money, don't save me
money, and allow the supplier to remotely disconnect my supply.
In addition in the North of England they more likely not to work as the
network back to the supplier is different.

The only one of these things that has changed is that some suppliers are
surcharging those of us who choose not to have a smart meter, presumably
in order to reach the government target....

.... so if the cheapest tarrif needs a smart meter go for it

Dave

On 27/11/2019 11:53, David Wade wrote:
On 27/11/2019 08:37, pfj wrote:
I've just changed Power supplier to E-0n and they want to fit smart
meters.Â* At the time of change I apparently agreed to smart meters to
be supplied,Â* but I never noticed it.

I've followed the discussion over the past few months about smart
meters on this group.Â* Do the objections still apply or has experience
moderated peoples views?
Oeter

My main objections are that they are a waste of money, don't save me
money, and allow the supplier to remotely disconnect my supply.
In addition in the North of England they more likely not to work as the
network back to the supplier is different.

They also make it possible to determine when a property is unoccupied,
or likely to be.

--
Michael Chare

"Michael Chare" wrote in message
...
On 27/11/2019 11:53, David Wade wrote:
On 27/11/2019 08:37, pfj wrote:
I've just changed Power supplier to E-0n and they want to fit smart
meters. At the time of change I apparently agreed to smart meters to
be supplied, but I never noticed it.

I've followed the discussion over the past few months about smart
meters on this group. Do the objections still apply or has experience
moderated peoples views?
Oeter

My main objections are that they are a waste of money, don't save me
money, and allow the supplier to remotely disconnect my supply.
In addition in the North of England they more likely not to work as the
network back to the supplier is different.

They also make it possible to determine when a property is unoccupied, or
likely to be.

and how is that useful?

Other than to a thief?

Personally, I don't buy the theory that thieves are going to have remote
access to meters and if they can read it manually then they have already
broken into my property.

If a thief wants to know if my property is potential empty before trying to
break in, he has a much simpler method than hacking my leccy meter. He can
simply ring the door bell.

This risk factor is a tabloid/Hollywood fantasy

tim

In article , David Wade
writes
... so if the cheapest tarrif needs a smart meter go for it
That's what I've done. EDF
--
bert

"pfj" wrote in message
...
I've just changed Power supplier to E-0n and they want to fit smart
meters. At the time of change I apparently agreed to smart meters to
be supplied, but I never noticed it.

I've followed the discussion over the past few months
about smart meters on this group. Do the objections
still apply or has experience moderated peoples views?

The worst of them are just mindless paranoid
luddites who will never change their views.

Smart meters do mean that you don't have
to read the meter yourself or provide any
way for a meter reader to read it periodically.

There can be with your stupid system a problem with
smart meters that go stupid if you change supplier.

On Thu, 28 Nov 2019 02:51:22 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH the trolling, nym-shifting, senile asshole's latest troll****

Everything still dark in Australia you abnormal senile mental case? Still a
3 to 4 hours wait for you until it starts dawning in your ********,
psychopath?

--
Marland revealing the senile sociopath's pathology:
"You have mentioned Alexa in a couple of threads recently, it is not a real
woman you know even if it is the only thing with a Female name that stays
around around while you talk it to it.
Poor sad git who has to resort to Usenet and electronic devices for any
interaction as all real people run a mile to get away from from you boring
them to death."
MID:

On 27/11/2019 15:51, Rod Speed wrote:


"pfj" wrote in message
...
I've just changed Power supplier to E-0n and they want to fit smart
meters.Â* At the time of change I apparently agreed to smart meters to
be supplied,Â* but I never noticed it.

I've followed the discussion over the past few months
about smart meters on this group.Â* Do the objections
still apply or has experience moderated peoples views?


I do a periodic price check (I am still non smart meter)
I have found that in order to get a cheaper tariff I need to agree to a
smart meter, if I dont I must take a more expensive tariff!
From the forums I have checked there are still major problems getting
them to work properly something like 34% are having issues.

I know that one day I will be forced to have one but until then I am
more than happy to submit my own readings...I know when I have left a
light on and dont need a smart meter to inform me.