On 12/08/2019 19:43, John Rumm wrote:
On 10/08/2019 16:36, pinnerite wrote:
I bought an LED outside light less than 3 years ago from Homebase.
It was whiteÂ* and less obtrusiveÂ* against our white walls.
Recently it started to barely glow.

My electrician, as friend for over 50 years popped i to deliver
something. I showed him the lamp which he had fitted. He laughed and said
'you need to get a new one'. The original came in a sealed unit so
couldn't be repaired.

He will no longer supply them because so many are unreliable. He
mentioned a brand that he claimed was more reliable than most but I could
not find it on the web so purchased one that claimed that it was water-
proof.

I should have come here first and sought advice but I reckon I am losing
it.

I tend to favour "dumb" lamps fed via standalone PIR(s). Much simpler to
replace a PIR on its own if it fails, and you can then have the sensing
bit in the most appropriate place (or places), which might not be
mounted near the lamp.




And it lets you fire two or more lights from one sensor, which is often
useful.

On Wednesday, 14 August 2019 11:44:25 UTC+1, whisky-dave wrote:
On Wednesday, 14 August 2019 00:09:42 UTC+1, tabby wrote:
On Tuesday, 13 August 2019 16:54:37 UTC+1, dennis@home wrote:
On 13/08/2019 10:06, tabbypurr wrote:

Rebulbable lights last far longer, come in a huge range of looks, and are cheaper.

Lights with fixed LEDs last longer,

the life of one LED only. Duh.

with is ~10 years if they are only on for 12 hours a day.

nope

Some don't even live in the same property for that long.


come in a huge range of looks, and
are cheaper.


The reason they last longer is because they can be cooled better than
some random fitting retrofitted with a LED bulb.

No dennis. The reason they last less long is
a) the manufacturer couldn't care less as long as it makes a few years

So don;t buy from a cheap manufacturer. The same goes for any product.

whoosh

b) since it's only on a small % of time they push the LEDs much harder.
BC/ES LEDs OTOH are rated at 15-25k hours

why would they need to push them harder ?
Ah because they are crap quality to start with ?

because they can. If its only on for brief periods, it's cheaper to use less LEDs & cook em. Cheap is everything.


NT

On 14/08/2019 11:44, whisky-dave wrote:
On Wednesday, 14 August 2019 00:09:42 UTC+1, wrote:
On Tuesday, 13 August 2019 16:54:37 UTC+1, dennis@home wrote:
On 13/08/2019 10:06, tabbypurr wrote:

Rebulbable lights last far longer, come in a huge range of looks, and are cheaper.

Lights with fixed LEDs last longer,

the life of one LED only. Duh.

with is ~10 years if they are only on for 12 hours a day.

Some don't even live in the same property for that long.


come in a huge range of looks, and
are cheaper.


The reason they last longer is because they can be cooled better than
some random fitting retrofitted with a LED bulb.

No dennis. The reason they last less long is
a) the manufacturer couldn't care less as long as it makes a few years

So don;t buy from a cheap manufacturer. The same goes for any product.


b) since it's only on a small % of time they push the LEDs much harder.
BC/ES LEDs OTOH are rated at 15-25k hours

why would they need to push them harder ?
Ah because they are crap quality to start with ?



because it suits tabby's argument.

he ignores the often reported failures of LED bulbs due to over heating
of the PSU in the base.

Of course you could buy philips hue bulbs which will have a switch mode
supply in them but they are £20+. The cheap ones come with a crappy
capacitor dropper which wont last a year in an unventilated lamp or even
one that has the bulb hanging down.
..

On Wednesday, 14 August 2019 12:50:58 UTC+1, dennis@home wrote:
On 14/08/2019 11:44, whisky-dave wrote:
On Wednesday, 14 August 2019 00:09:42 UTC+1, tabby wrote:
On Tuesday, 13 August 2019 16:54:37 UTC+1, dennis@home wrote:
On 13/08/2019 10:06, tabbypurr wrote:

Rebulbable lights last far longer, come in a huge range of looks, and are cheaper.

Lights with fixed LEDs last longer,

the life of one LED only. Duh.

with is ~10 years if they are only on for 12 hours a day.

Some don't even live in the same property for that long.


come in a huge range of looks, and
are cheaper.


The reason they last longer is because they can be cooled better than
some random fitting retrofitted with a LED bulb.

No dennis. The reason they last less long is
a) the manufacturer couldn't care less as long as it makes a few years

So don;t buy from a cheap manufacturer. The same goes for any product.


b) since it's only on a small % of time they push the LEDs much harder..
BC/ES LEDs OTOH are rated at 15-25k hours

why would they need to push them harder ?
Ah because they are crap quality to start with ?



because it suits tabby's argument.

he ignores the often reported failures of LED bulbs due to over heating
of the PSU in the base.

Of course you could buy philips hue bulbs which will have a switch mode
supply in them but they are £20+. The cheap ones come with a crappy
capacitor dropper which wont last a year in an unventilated lamp or even
one that has the bulb hanging down.
.

I see you're dodging reality again. A year is 8,760 hours. A 15k or 25k rating means the lamps last an average of 15 or 25k hours run time. That there are infant failures on all LED lamps makes not one whit of difference. Other than the relamping cost of £3 versus £70.


NT

As an early respondent to this thread and having recommended sealed units I can understand the reason why someone would favour replaceable bulbs. However, it all depends on each person's preferences and how they have arrived at that choice. My own unscientific preferences for outside lights is to go for sealed units particularly LED fittings. This preference is based on previous experience, we had a number of bulkhead lights at the last house but once they started to need bulbs replacing nearly all started to let moisture in. Again unscientifically I reasoned that this was occurring because once the seals were disturbed after long compression they never seemed to compress quite the same and in the case of my bulkheads further compressing the shade to body seal was causing the seals under the screwheads to disintegrate thus allowing moisture in. I have had the same occur at our present house to halogen floods, so far the replacement sealed LED ones have not leaked but only time will tell. Maybe it is down to gut instinct I feel something factory sealed will remain sealed longer than something you are trying to seal whilst dangling off a ladder.

Other reasons for choosing a particular type of fitting is aesthetics. Removable bulb units tend to be bulkier whereas the units I fitted recently are quite discrete for the amount of light they give off.

At the end of the day you choose what suits you with the features that are important to you. I think the replaceability of bulbs might be a consideration and it is valid to recommend that just as I recommended sealed units and why. It is up the OP to weigh up the recommendations put to them and I for one would not get upset if my recommendations are ignored.

Richard

On Wednesday, 14 August 2019 12:13:33 UTC+1, wrote:
On Wednesday, 14 August 2019 11:44:25 UTC+1, whisky-dave wrote:
On Wednesday, 14 August 2019 00:09:42 UTC+1, tabby wrote:
On Tuesday, 13 August 2019 16:54:37 UTC+1, dennis@home wrote:
On 13/08/2019 10:06, tabbypurr wrote:

Rebulbable lights last far longer, come in a huge range of looks, and are cheaper.

Lights with fixed LEDs last longer,

the life of one LED only. Duh.

with is ~10 years if they are only on for 12 hours a day.

nope

Yep.

50K hours life Do you know how to work out how many hours in a year ?
ASk google if not. It's 8760. So runnig 24/7/365 that is 50,000/8760=5.7 years so about 5, so running it just 12 hours per day then you could expect to last about 10 years.


Some don't even live in the same property for that long.


come in a huge range of looks, and
are cheaper.


The reason they last longer is because they can be cooled better than
some random fitting retrofitted with a LED bulb.

No dennis. The reason they last less long is
a) the manufacturer couldn't care less as long as it makes a few years

So don;t buy from a cheap manufacturer. The same goes for any product.

whoosh

Well if you can only aford ebay items shipped from china you may well be getting 2nd rate out of spec LED's

Perhaps they are better suited to you though.



b) since it's only on a small % of time they push the LEDs much harder.
BC/ES LEDs OTOH are rated at 15-25k hours

why would they need to push them harder ?
Ah because they are crap quality to start with ?

because they can.

Why shorten their life by pushing them ?

If its only on for brief periods, it's cheaper to use less LEDs & cook em. Cheap is everything.

Only from cheap supliers.



NT

On Wednesday, 14 August 2019 15:06:54 UTC+1, wrote:
On Wednesday, 14 August 2019 12:50:58 UTC+1, dennis@home wrote:
On 14/08/2019 11:44, whisky-dave wrote:
On Wednesday, 14 August 2019 00:09:42 UTC+1, tabby wrote:
On Tuesday, 13 August 2019 16:54:37 UTC+1, dennis@home wrote:
On 13/08/2019 10:06, tabbypurr wrote:

Rebulbable lights last far longer, come in a huge range of looks, and are cheaper.

Lights with fixed LEDs last longer,

the life of one LED only. Duh.

with is ~10 years if they are only on for 12 hours a day.

Some don't even live in the same property for that long.


come in a huge range of looks, and
are cheaper.


The reason they last longer is because they can be cooled better than
some random fitting retrofitted with a LED bulb.

No dennis. The reason they last less long is
a) the manufacturer couldn't care less as long as it makes a few years

So don;t buy from a cheap manufacturer. The same goes for any product..


b) since it's only on a small % of time they push the LEDs much harder.
BC/ES LEDs OTOH are rated at 15-25k hours

why would they need to push them harder ?
Ah because they are crap quality to start with ?



because it suits tabby's argument.

he ignores the often reported failures of LED bulbs due to over heating
of the PSU in the base.

Of course you could buy philips hue bulbs which will have a switch mode
supply in them but they are £20+. The cheap ones come with a crappy
capacitor dropper which wont last a year in an unventilated lamp or even
one that has the bulb hanging down.
.

I see you're dodging reality again. A year is 8,760 hours. A 15k or 25k rating means the lamps last an average of 15 or 25k hours run time. That there are infant failures on all LED lamps makes not one whit of difference. Other than the relamping cost of £3 versus £70.

Did you buy your jewery from ratners too ?

On Wednesday, 14 August 2019 15:56:11 UTC+1, whisky-dave wrote:
On Wednesday, 14 August 2019 12:13:33 UTC+1, tabby wrote:
On Wednesday, 14 August 2019 11:44:25 UTC+1, whisky-dave wrote:
On Wednesday, 14 August 2019 00:09:42 UTC+1, tabby wrote:
On Tuesday, 13 August 2019 16:54:37 UTC+1, dennis@home wrote:
On 13/08/2019 10:06, tabbypurr wrote:

Rebulbable lights last far longer, come in a huge range of looks, and are cheaper.

Lights with fixed LEDs last longer,

the life of one LED only. Duh.

with is ~10 years if they are only on for 12 hours a day.

nope

Yep.

50K hours life Do you know how to work out how many hours in a year ?
ASk google if not. It's 8760. So runnig 24/7/365 that is 50,000/8760=5.7 years so about 5, so running it just 12 hours per day then you could expect to last about 10 years.


Some don't even live in the same property for that long.


come in a huge range of looks, and
are cheaper.


The reason they last longer is because they can be cooled better than
some random fitting retrofitted with a LED bulb.

No dennis. The reason they last less long is
a) the manufacturer couldn't care less as long as it makes a few years

So don;t buy from a cheap manufacturer. The same goes for any product.

whoosh

Well if you can only aford ebay items shipped from china you may well be getting 2nd rate out of spec LED's

Perhaps they are better suited to you though.



b) since it's only on a small % of time they push the LEDs much harder.
BC/ES LEDs OTOH are rated at 15-25k hours

why would they need to push them harder ?
Ah because they are crap quality to start with ?

because they can.

Why shorten their life by pushing them ?

If its only on for brief periods, it's cheaper to use less LEDs & cook em. Cheap is everything.

Only from cheap supliers.



NT

Once again you're an eejit. I should not be surprised.

"dennis@home" wrote in message
...
On 14/08/2019 11:44, whisky-dave wrote:
On Wednesday, 14 August 2019 00:09:42 UTC+1, wrote:
On Tuesday, 13 August 2019 16:54:37 UTC+1, dennis@home wrote:
On 13/08/2019 10:06, tabbypurr wrote:

Rebulbable lights last far longer, come in a huge range of looks, and
are cheaper.

Lights with fixed LEDs last longer,

the life of one LED only. Duh.

with is ~10 years if they are only on for 12 hours a day.

Some don't even live in the same property for that long.


come in a huge range of looks, and
are cheaper.


The reason they last longer is because they can be cooled better than
some random fitting retrofitted with a LED bulb.

No dennis. The reason they last less long is
a) the manufacturer couldn't care less as long as it makes a few years

So don;t buy from a cheap manufacturer. The same goes for any product.


b) since it's only on a small % of time they push the LEDs much harder.
BC/ES LEDs OTOH are rated at 15-25k hours

why would they need to push them harder ?
Ah because they are crap quality to start with ?



because it suits tabby's argument.

he ignores the often reported failures of LED bulbs due to over heating of
the PSU in the base.

Of course you could buy philips hue bulbs which will have a switch mode
supply in them but they are £20+.

Not with the periodic discounts on amazon.

The cheap ones come with a crappy
capacitor dropper which wont last a year in an unventilated lamp or even
one that has the bulb hanging down.
.

On Thu, 15 Aug 2019 04:53:04 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:


Not with the periodic discounts on amazon.

You can shove your discounts + Amazon up yours, senile asshole!

--
Website (from 2007) dedicated to the 85-year-old trolling senile
cretin from Oz:
https://www.pcreview.co.uk/threads/r...d-faq.2973853/

On 11/08/2019 10:02, wrote:
On Saturday, 10 August 2019 23:06:44 UTC+1, tim... wrote:
"pinnerite" wrote in message
...
I bought an LED outside light less than 3 years ago from Homebase.
It was white and less obtrusive against our white walls.
Recently it started to barely glow.

My electrician, as friend for over 50 years popped i to deliver
something. I showed him the lamp which he had fitted. He laughed and said
'you need to get a new one'. The original came in a sealed unit so
couldn't be repaired.

He will no longer supply them because so many are unreliable. He
mentioned a brand that he claimed was more reliable than most but I could
not find it on the web so purchased one that claimed that it was water-
proof.

I should have come here first and sought advice but I reckon I am losing
it.



Hm,

I've got a sealed for life LED lamp in my kitchen, admittedly on a switch

Hope that I get better than 3 years out of it.

It came from B&Q and I think it was what appears to be their "own" brand
"Colours"

tim

Why do people buy light fittings with bulbs they can't change?

Because the lamp lasts the life of the fitting... in theory at least.

I used three of these in one of my bathrooms:

https://trade.ledhut.co.uk/8w-integr...reflector.html

They give lots of decent quality light, are easy to fit, and have a slim
back projection which was important for the situation.




--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Friday, 16 August 2019 12:57:35 UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:
On 11/08/2019 10:02, tabbypurr wrote:

Why do people buy light fittings with bulbs they can't change?

Because the lamp lasts the life of the fitting... in theory at least.

that may be the sales pitch, but not much to do with reality unless the fittings are of truly terrible quality.


I used three of these in one of my bathrooms:

https://trade.ledhut.co.uk/8w-integr...reflector.html

They give lots of decent quality light, are easy to fit,

like a large percentage of fittings for the last century or so

and have a slim
back projection which was important for the situation.


NT

On 16/08/2019 19:21, wrote:
On Friday, 16 August 2019 12:57:35 UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:
On 11/08/2019 10:02, tabbypurr wrote:

Why do people buy light fittings with bulbs they can't change?

Because the lamp lasts the life of the fitting... in theory at
least.

that may be the sales pitch,

well if you think about it, its pretty self defining. Once the lamp is
dean, the life of the fitting is over!

I used three of these in one of my bathrooms:

https://trade.ledhut.co.uk/8w-integr...reflector.html

They give lots of decent quality light, are easy to fit,

like a large percentage of fittings for the last century or so

Got some examples of any = IPx4 fittings that will take a LED lamp,
give 90 degree beam angle, and shallow depth of fit?

and have a slim back projection which was important for the
situation.




--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 14/08/2019 15:06, wrote:
On Wednesday, 14 August 2019 12:50:58 UTC+1, dennis@home wrote:
On 14/08/2019 11:44, whisky-dave wrote:
On Wednesday, 14 August 2019 00:09:42 UTC+1, tabby wrote:
On Tuesday, 13 August 2019 16:54:37 UTC+1, dennis@home wrote:
On 13/08/2019 10:06, tabbypurr wrote:

Rebulbable lights last far longer, come in a huge range of
looks, and are cheaper.

Lights with fixed LEDs last longer,

the life of one LED only. Duh.

with is ~10 years if they are only on for 12 hours a day.

Some don't even live in the same property for that long.


come in a huge range of looks, and are cheaper.


The reason they last longer is because they can be cooled
better than some random fitting retrofitted with a LED bulb.

No dennis. The reason they last less long is a) the
manufacturer couldn't care less as long as it makes a few
years

So don;t buy from a cheap manufacturer. The same goes for any
product.


b) since it's only on a small % of time they push the LEDs much
harder. BC/ES LEDs OTOH are rated at 15-25k hours

why would they need to push them harder ? Ah because they are
crap quality to start with ?



because it suits tabby's argument.

he ignores the often reported failures of LED bulbs due to over
heating of the PSU in the base.

Of course you could buy philips hue bulbs which will have a switch
mode supply in them but they are £20+. The cheap ones come with a
crappy capacitor dropper which wont last a year in an unventilated
lamp or even one that has the bulb hanging down. .

I see you're dodging reality again. A year is 8,760 hours. A 15k or
25k rating means the lamps last an average of 15 or 25k hours run
time. That there are infant failures on all LED lamps makes not one
whit of difference. Other than the relamping cost of £3 versus £70.

Just as well they come with 3 - 5 year warranties then...


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 18/08/2019 13:30, John Rumm wrote:
On 14/08/2019 15:06, wrote:
On Wednesday, 14 August 2019 12:50:58 UTC+1, dennis@homeÂ* wrote:
On 14/08/2019 11:44, whisky-dave wrote:
On Wednesday, 14 August 2019 00:09:42 UTC+1, tabbyÂ* wrote:
On Tuesday, 13 August 2019 16:54:37 UTC+1, dennis@homeÂ* wrote:
On 13/08/2019 10:06, tabbypurr wrote:

Rebulbable lights last far longer, come in a huge range of
looks, and are cheaper.

Lights with fixed LEDs last longer,

the life of one LED only. Duh.

with is ~10 years if they are only on for 12 hours a day.

Some don't even live in the same property for that long.


come in a huge range of looks, and are cheaper.


The reason they last longer is because they can be cooled
better than some random fitting retrofitted with a LED bulb.

No dennis. The reason they last less long is a) the
manufacturer couldn't care less as long as it makes a few
years

So don;t buy from a cheap manufacturer. The same goes for any
product.


b) since it's only on a small % of time they push the LEDs much
harder. BC/ES LEDs OTOH are rated at 15-25k hours

why would they need to push them harder ? Ah because they are
crap quality to start with ?



because it suits tabby's argument.

he ignores the often reported failures of LED bulbs due to over
heating of the PSU in the base.

Of course you could buy philips hue bulbs which will have a switch
mode supply in them but they are £20+. The cheap ones come with a
crappy capacitor dropper which wont last a year in an unventilated
lamp or even one that has the bulb hanging down. .

I see you're dodging reality again. A year is 8,760 hours. A 15k or
25k rating means the lamps last an average of 15 or 25k hours run
time. That there are infant failures on all LED lamps makes not one
whit of difference. Other than the relamping cost of £3 versus £70.

Just as well they come with 3 - 5 year warranties then...


All good points of course. But I have never seen a warranty that covers
the labour cost of replacing the fitting. That does not matter to you
or others who can DIY. But to many consumers it's a substantial cost.



--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

On Sunday, 18 August 2019 13:30:11 UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:
On 14/08/2019 15:06, tabbypurr wrote:
On Wednesday, 14 August 2019 12:50:58 UTC+1, dennis@home wrote:
On 14/08/2019 11:44, whisky-dave wrote:
On Wednesday, 14 August 2019 00:09:42 UTC+1, tabby wrote:
On Tuesday, 13 August 2019 16:54:37 UTC+1, dennis@home wrote:
On 13/08/2019 10:06, tabbypurr wrote:

Rebulbable lights last far longer, come in a huge range of
looks, and are cheaper.

Lights with fixed LEDs last longer,

the life of one LED only. Duh.

with is ~10 years if they are only on for 12 hours a day.

Some don't even live in the same property for that long.


come in a huge range of looks, and are cheaper.


The reason they last longer is because they can be cooled
better than some random fitting retrofitted with a LED bulb.

No dennis. The reason they last less long is a) the
manufacturer couldn't care less as long as it makes a few
years

So don;t buy from a cheap manufacturer. The same goes for any
product.


b) since it's only on a small % of time they push the LEDs much
harder. BC/ES LEDs OTOH are rated at 15-25k hours

why would they need to push them harder ? Ah because they are
crap quality to start with ?



because it suits tabby's argument.

he ignores the often reported failures of LED bulbs due to over
heating of the PSU in the base.

Of course you could buy philips hue bulbs which will have a switch
mode supply in them but they are £20+. The cheap ones come with a
crappy capacitor dropper which wont last a year in an unventilated
lamp or even one that has the bulb hanging down. .

I see you're dodging reality again. A year is 8,760 hours. A 15k or
25k rating means the lamps last an average of 15 or 25k hours run
time. That there are infant failures on all LED lamps makes not one
whit of difference. Other than the relamping cost of £3 versus £70.

Just as well they come with 3 - 5 year warranties then...

whatever use is that? I expect light fittings to last decades, and mine do.


NT

On Sunday, 18 August 2019 13:59:56 UTC+1, Robin wrote:
On 18/08/2019 13:30, John Rumm wrote:
On 14/08/2019 15:06, tabbypurr wrote:

I see you're dodging reality again. A year is 8,760 hours. A 15k or
25k rating means the lamps last an average of 15 or 25k hours run
time. That there are infant failures on all LED lamps makes not one
whit of difference. Other than the relamping cost of £3 versus £70.

Just as well they come with 3 - 5 year warranties then...


All good points of course. But I have never seen a warranty that covers
the labour cost of replacing the fitting. That does not matter to you
or others who can DIY. But to many consumers it's a substantial cost.

It only doesn't matter if we're sitting around twiddling our thumbs. Most of us don't tend to live that way.


NT

On 18/08/2019 13:59, Robin wrote:
On 18/08/2019 13:30, John Rumm wrote:
On 14/08/2019 15:06, wrote:
On Wednesday, 14 August 2019 12:50:58 UTC+1, dennis@homeÂ* wrote:
On 14/08/2019 11:44, whisky-dave wrote:
On Wednesday, 14 August 2019 00:09:42 UTC+1, tabbyÂ* wrote:
On Tuesday, 13 August 2019 16:54:37 UTC+1, dennis@homeÂ* wrote:
On 13/08/2019 10:06, tabbypurr wrote:

Rebulbable lights last far longer, come in a huge range of
looks, and are cheaper.

Lights with fixed LEDs last longer,

the life of one LED only. Duh.

with is ~10 years if they are only on for 12 hours a day.

Some don't even live in the same property for that long.


come in a huge range of looks, and are cheaper.


The reason they last longer is because they can be cooled
better than some random fitting retrofitted with a LED bulb.

No dennis. The reason they last less long is a) the
manufacturer couldn't care less as long as it makes a few
years

So don;t buy from a cheap manufacturer. The same goes for any
product.


b) since it's only on a small % of time they push the LEDs much
harder. BC/ES LEDs OTOH are rated at 15-25k hours

why would they need to push them harder ? Ah because they are
crap quality to start with ?



because it suits tabby's argument.

he ignores the often reported failures of LED bulbs due to over
heating of the PSU in the base.

Of course you could buy philips hue bulbs which will have a switch
mode supply in them but they are £20+. The cheap ones come with a
crappy capacitor dropper which wont last a year in an unventilated
lamp or even one that has the bulb hanging down. .

I see you're dodging reality again. A year is 8,760 hours. A 15k or
25k rating means the lamps last an average of 15 or 25k hours run
time. That there are infant failures on all LED lamps makes not one
whit of difference. Other than the relamping cost of £3 versus £70.

Just as well they come with 3 - 5 year warranties then...


All good points of course.Â* But I have never seen a warranty that covers
the labour cost of replacing the fitting.Â* That does not matter to you
or others who can DIY.Â* But to many consumers it's a substantial cost.

If they get the fitter to also supply the fitting, then they can check
they will honour the warranty and bear the cost when commissioning the
work.

Also work keeping in mind that in lots of commercial situations the
costs of re-lamping and replacing are similar due to the H&S brigade
insisting that scaffolding be used to reach high fittings etc.





--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Sunday, 18 August 2019 20:23:19 UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:
On 18/08/2019 13:59, Robin wrote:
On 18/08/2019 13:30, John Rumm wrote:
On 14/08/2019 15:06, tabbypurr wrote:
On Wednesday, 14 August 2019 12:50:58 UTC+1, dennis@homeÂ* wrote:
On 14/08/2019 11:44, whisky-dave wrote:
On Wednesday, 14 August 2019 00:09:42 UTC+1, tabbyÂ* wrote:
On Tuesday, 13 August 2019 16:54:37 UTC+1, dennis@homeÂ* wrote:
On 13/08/2019 10:06, tabbypurr wrote:

Rebulbable lights last far longer, come in a huge range of
looks, and are cheaper.

Lights with fixed LEDs last longer,

the life of one LED only. Duh.

with is ~10 years if they are only on for 12 hours a day.

Some don't even live in the same property for that long.


come in a huge range of looks, and are cheaper.


The reason they last longer is because they can be cooled
better than some random fitting retrofitted with a LED bulb.

No dennis. The reason they last less long is a) the
manufacturer couldn't care less as long as it makes a few
years

So don;t buy from a cheap manufacturer. The same goes for any
product.


b) since it's only on a small % of time they push the LEDs much
harder. BC/ES LEDs OTOH are rated at 15-25k hours

why would they need to push them harder ? Ah because they are
crap quality to start with ?



because it suits tabby's argument.

he ignores the often reported failures of LED bulbs due to over
heating of the PSU in the base.

Of course you could buy philips hue bulbs which will have a switch
mode supply in them but they are £20+. The cheap ones come with a
crappy capacitor dropper which wont last a year in an unventilated
lamp or even one that has the bulb hanging down. .

I see you're dodging reality again. A year is 8,760 hours. A 15k or
25k rating means the lamps last an average of 15 or 25k hours run
time. That there are infant failures on all LED lamps makes not one
whit of difference. Other than the relamping cost of £3 versus £70.

Just as well they come with 3 - 5 year warranties then...


All good points of course.Â* But I have never seen a warranty that covers
the labour cost of replacing the fitting.Â* That does not matter to you
or others who can DIY.Â* But to many consumers it's a substantial cost.

If they get the fitter to also supply the fitting, then they can check
they will honour the warranty and bear the cost when commissioning the
work.

If you want to install short lived fittings that have to be replaced when the bulb fails that's your call. I don't.

Also work keeping in mind that in lots of commercial situations the
costs of re-lamping and replacing are similar due to the H&S brigade
insisting that scaffolding be used to reach high fittings etc.

not relevant to diyers or the general public at home.


NT

On 18/08/2019 20:35, wrote:
On Sunday, 18 August 2019 20:23:19 UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:
On 18/08/2019 13:59, Robin wrote:
On 18/08/2019 13:30, John Rumm wrote:
On 14/08/2019 15:06, tabbypurr wrote:
On Wednesday, 14 August 2019 12:50:58 UTC+1, dennis@home
wrote:
On 14/08/2019 11:44, whisky-dave wrote:
On Wednesday, 14 August 2019 00:09:42 UTC+1, tabby
wrote:
On Tuesday, 13 August 2019 16:54:37 UTC+1, dennis@home
wrote:
On 13/08/2019 10:06, tabbypurr wrote:

Rebulbable lights last far longer, come in a huge
range of looks, and are cheaper.

Lights with fixed LEDs last longer,

the life of one LED only. Duh.

with is ~10 years if they are only on for 12 hours a
day.

Some don't even live in the same property for that long.


come in a huge range of looks, and are cheaper.


The reason they last longer is because they can be
cooled better than some random fitting retrofitted
with a LED bulb.

No dennis. The reason they last less long is a) the
manufacturer couldn't care less as long as it makes a
few years

So don;t buy from a cheap manufacturer. The same goes for
any product.


b) since it's only on a small % of time they push the
LEDs much harder. BC/ES LEDs OTOH are rated at 15-25k
hours

why would they need to push them harder ? Ah because they
are crap quality to start with ?



because it suits tabby's argument.

he ignores the often reported failures of LED bulbs due to
over heating of the PSU in the base.

Of course you could buy philips hue bulbs which will have a
switch mode supply in them but they are £20+. The cheap
ones come with a crappy capacitor dropper which wont last a
year in an unventilated lamp or even one that has the bulb
hanging down. .

I see you're dodging reality again. A year is 8,760 hours. A
15k or 25k rating means the lamps last an average of 15 or
25k hours run time. That there are infant failures on all LED
lamps makes not one whit of difference. Other than the
relamping cost of £3 versus £70.

Just as well they come with 3 - 5 year warranties then...


All good points of course. But I have never seen a warranty that
covers the labour cost of replacing the fitting. That does not
matter to you or others who can DIY. But to many consumers it's
a substantial cost.

If they get the fitter to also supply the fitting, then they can
check they will honour the warranty and bear the cost when
commissioning the work.

If you want to install short lived fittings that have to be replaced
when the bulb fails that's your call.

In some cases I do... if they meet the spec I needed. The last time I
did I would be surprised if you could find an alternative re-lampable
option that would.

Even if I only get a 5th of the 40K hours average life advertised, that
will likely be decades in the application for which I chose them, so at
£13 a pop that is fine by me. Cheapest rarely means best.

I don't.

Best you stick to carbon arc filament...


Also work keeping in mind that in lots of commercial situations
the costs of re-lamping and replacing are similar due to the H&S
brigade insisting that scaffolding be used to reach high fittings
etc.

not relevant to diyers or the general public at home.

Have you been attending the harry school of comprehension? I thought the
"lots of commercial situations" caveat would pretty much eliminate
domestic and DIY from consideration in relation to the point, and yet still?



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Monday, 19 August 2019 04:03:20 UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:
On 18/08/2019 20:35, tabbypurr wrote:
On Sunday, 18 August 2019 20:23:19 UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:
On 18/08/2019 13:59, Robin wrote:
On 18/08/2019 13:30, John Rumm wrote:

If you want to install short lived fittings that have to be replaced
when the bulb fails that's your call.

In some cases I do... if they meet the spec I needed. The last time I
did I would be surprised if you could find an alternative re-lampable
option that would.

Even if I only get a 5th of the 40K hours average life advertised, that
will likely be decades in the application for which I chose them, so at
£13 a pop that is fine by me. Cheapest rarely means best.

I don't.

Best you stick to carbon arc filament...

those are 2 different technologies, neither of which I have any reason to use on any great scale. Filaments are still in use in niche apps here.

Of course the comparison is invalid but hey


Also work keeping in mind that in lots of commercial situations
the costs of re-lamping and replacing are similar due to the H&S
brigade insisting that scaffolding be used to reach high fittings
etc.

not relevant to diyers or the general public at home.

Have you been attending the harry school of comprehension? I thought the
"lots of commercial situations" caveat would pretty much eliminate
domestic and DIY from consideration in relation to the point, and yet still?

yet still it's irrelevant to what we're discussing, which is choice of luminaires at home.


NT

On Wednesday, 14 August 2019 17:15:05 UTC+1, wrote:
On Wednesday, 14 August 2019 15:56:11 UTC+1, whisky-dave wrote:
On Wednesday, 14 August 2019 12:13:33 UTC+1, tabby wrote:
On Wednesday, 14 August 2019 11:44:25 UTC+1, whisky-dave wrote:
On Wednesday, 14 August 2019 00:09:42 UTC+1, tabby wrote:
On Tuesday, 13 August 2019 16:54:37 UTC+1, dennis@home wrote:
On 13/08/2019 10:06, tabbypurr wrote:

Rebulbable lights last far longer, come in a huge range of looks, and are cheaper.

Lights with fixed LEDs last longer,

the life of one LED only. Duh.

with is ~10 years if they are only on for 12 hours a day.

nope

Yep.

50K hours life Do you know how to work out how many hours in a year ?
ASk google if not. It's 8760. So runnig 24/7/365 that is 50,000/8760=5.7 years so about 5, so running it just 12 hours per day then you could expect to last about 10 years.


Some don't even live in the same property for that long.


come in a huge range of looks, and
are cheaper.


The reason they last longer is because they can be cooled better than
some random fitting retrofitted with a LED bulb.

No dennis. The reason they last less long is
a) the manufacturer couldn't care less as long as it makes a few years

So don;t buy from a cheap manufacturer. The same goes for any product.

whoosh

Well if you can only aford ebay items shipped from china you may well be getting 2nd rate out of spec LED's

Perhaps they are better suited to you though.



b) since it's only on a small % of time they push the LEDs much harder.
BC/ES LEDs OTOH are rated at 15-25k hours

why would they need to push them harder ?
Ah because they are crap quality to start with ?

because they can.

Why shorten their life by pushing them ?

If its only on for brief periods, it's cheaper to use less LEDs & cook em. Cheap is everything.

Only from cheap supliers.



NT

Once again you're an eejit. I should not be surprised.

Only an eejit thinks all LEDs are the same.
Even then you have the PSU that will have a shorter life than the LEDs have.

On Sunday, 18 August 2019 20:15:38 UTC+1, wrote:
On Sunday, 18 August 2019 13:30:11 UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:
On 14/08/2019 15:06, tabbypurr wrote:
On Wednesday, 14 August 2019 12:50:58 UTC+1, dennis@home wrote:
On 14/08/2019 11:44, whisky-dave wrote:
On Wednesday, 14 August 2019 00:09:42 UTC+1, tabby wrote:
On Tuesday, 13 August 2019 16:54:37 UTC+1, dennis@home wrote:
On 13/08/2019 10:06, tabbypurr wrote:

Rebulbable lights last far longer, come in a huge range of
looks, and are cheaper.

Lights with fixed LEDs last longer,

the life of one LED only. Duh.

with is ~10 years if they are only on for 12 hours a day.

Some don't even live in the same property for that long.


come in a huge range of looks, and are cheaper.


The reason they last longer is because they can be cooled
better than some random fitting retrofitted with a LED bulb.

No dennis. The reason they last less long is a) the
manufacturer couldn't care less as long as it makes a few
years

So don;t buy from a cheap manufacturer. The same goes for any
product.


b) since it's only on a small % of time they push the LEDs much
harder. BC/ES LEDs OTOH are rated at 15-25k hours

why would they need to push them harder ? Ah because they are
crap quality to start with ?



because it suits tabby's argument.

he ignores the often reported failures of LED bulbs due to over
heating of the PSU in the base.

Of course you could buy philips hue bulbs which will have a switch
mode supply in them but they are £20+. The cheap ones come with a
crappy capacitor dropper which wont last a year in an unventilated
lamp or even one that has the bulb hanging down. .

I see you're dodging reality again. A year is 8,760 hours. A 15k or
25k rating means the lamps last an average of 15 or 25k hours run
time. That there are infant failures on all LED lamps makes not one
whit of difference. Other than the relamping cost of £3 versus £70.

Just as well they come with 3 - 5 year warranties then...

whatever use is that? I expect light fittings to last decades, and mine do.

Most decorate more than once every couple of decades and usually lighting styles and their fixtures change.

It'd be nice if they did last 100+ years.

Even here at work where the lab is getting a serious makeover there's no plans to keep the 1990s light fitting (tubes) , just how many here use floruescant tubes in the kitchen now, most places I see now have downlighters which I don;t really like.



NT

"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Sunday, 18 August 2019 20:15:38 UTC+1, wrote:
On Sunday, 18 August 2019 13:30:11 UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:
On 14/08/2019 15:06, tabbypurr wrote:
On Wednesday, 14 August 2019 12:50:58 UTC+1, dennis@home wrote:
On 14/08/2019 11:44, whisky-dave wrote:
On Wednesday, 14 August 2019 00:09:42 UTC+1, tabby wrote:
On Tuesday, 13 August 2019 16:54:37 UTC+1, dennis@home wrote:
On 13/08/2019 10:06, tabbypurr wrote:

Rebulbable lights last far longer, come in a huge range of
looks, and are cheaper.

Lights with fixed LEDs last longer,

the life of one LED only. Duh.

with is ~10 years if they are only on for 12 hours a day.

Some don't even live in the same property for that long.


come in a huge range of looks, and are cheaper.


The reason they last longer is because they can be cooled
better than some random fitting retrofitted with a LED bulb.

No dennis. The reason they last less long is a) the
manufacturer couldn't care less as long as it makes a few
years

So don;t buy from a cheap manufacturer. The same goes for any
product.


b) since it's only on a small % of time they push the LEDs much
harder. BC/ES LEDs OTOH are rated at 15-25k hours

why would they need to push them harder ? Ah because they are
crap quality to start with ?



because it suits tabby's argument.

he ignores the often reported failures of LED bulbs due to over
heating of the PSU in the base.

Of course you could buy philips hue bulbs which will have a switch
mode supply in them but they are £20+. The cheap ones come with a
crappy capacitor dropper which wont last a year in an unventilated
lamp or even one that has the bulb hanging down. .

I see you're dodging reality again. A year is 8,760 hours. A 15k or
25k rating means the lamps last an average of 15 or 25k hours run
time. That there are infant failures on all LED lamps makes not one
whit of difference. Other than the relamping cost of £3 versus £70.

Just as well they come with 3 - 5 year warranties then...

whatever use is that? I expect light fittings to last decades, and mine
do.

Most decorate more than once every couple of decades and usually lighting
styles and their fixtures change.

It'd be nice if they did last 100+ years.

Even here at work where the lab is getting a serious makeover there's no
plans to keep the 1990s light fitting (tubes) , just how many here use
floruescant tubes in the kitchen now, most places I see now have
downlighters which I don;t really like.

I use very long led strip lights now in the kitchen.

On Tue, 20 Aug 2019 05:30:23 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:


I use very long led strip lights now in the kitchen.

Nobody asked you what you use, you lonely trolling piece of senile ****!

--
Norman Wells addressing senile Rot:
"Ah, the voice of scum speaks."
MID:

On Monday, 19 August 2019 13:47:55 UTC+1, whisky-dave wrote:
On Wednesday, 14 August 2019 17:15:05 UTC+1, tabby wrote:
On Wednesday, 14 August 2019 15:56:11 UTC+1, whisky-dave wrote:
On Wednesday, 14 August 2019 12:13:33 UTC+1, tabby wrote:
On Wednesday, 14 August 2019 11:44:25 UTC+1, whisky-dave wrote:
On Wednesday, 14 August 2019 00:09:42 UTC+1, tabby wrote:
On Tuesday, 13 August 2019 16:54:37 UTC+1, dennis@home wrote:
On 13/08/2019 10:06, tabbypurr wrote:

Rebulbable lights last far longer, come in a huge range of looks, and are cheaper.

Lights with fixed LEDs last longer,

the life of one LED only. Duh.

with is ~10 years if they are only on for 12 hours a day.

nope

Yep.

50K hours life Do you know how to work out how many hours in a year ?
ASk google if not. It's 8760. So runnig 24/7/365 that is 50,000/8760=5.7 years so about 5, so running it just 12 hours per day then you could expect to last about 10 years.


Some don't even live in the same property for that long.


come in a huge range of looks, and
are cheaper.


The reason they last longer is because they can be cooled better than
some random fitting retrofitted with a LED bulb.

No dennis. The reason they last less long is
a) the manufacturer couldn't care less as long as it makes a few years

So don;t buy from a cheap manufacturer. The same goes for any product.

whoosh

Well if you can only aford ebay items shipped from china you may well be getting 2nd rate out of spec LED's

Perhaps they are better suited to you though.



b) since it's only on a small % of time they push the LEDs much harder.
BC/ES LEDs OTOH are rated at 15-25k hours

why would they need to push them harder ?
Ah because they are crap quality to start with ?

because they can.

Why shorten their life by pushing them ?

If its only on for brief periods, it's cheaper to use less LEDs & cook em. Cheap is everything.

Only from cheap supliers.



NT

Once again you're an eejit. I should not be surprised.

Only an eejit thinks all LEDs are the same.

quite. Did anyone claim they were, or are you just making stuff up again?

Even then you have the PSU that will have a shorter life than the LEDs have.

Not usually

On Monday, 19 August 2019 13:57:09 UTC+1, whisky-dave wrote:
On Sunday, 18 August 2019 20:15:38 UTC+1, tabby wrote:
On Sunday, 18 August 2019 13:30:11 UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:
On 14/08/2019 15:06, tabbypurr wrote:
On Wednesday, 14 August 2019 12:50:58 UTC+1, dennis@home wrote:
On 14/08/2019 11:44, whisky-dave wrote:
On Wednesday, 14 August 2019 00:09:42 UTC+1, tabby wrote:
On Tuesday, 13 August 2019 16:54:37 UTC+1, dennis@home wrote:
On 13/08/2019 10:06, tabbypurr wrote:

Rebulbable lights last far longer, come in a huge range of
looks, and are cheaper.

Lights with fixed LEDs last longer,

the life of one LED only. Duh.

with is ~10 years if they are only on for 12 hours a day.

Some don't even live in the same property for that long.


come in a huge range of looks, and are cheaper.


The reason they last longer is because they can be cooled
better than some random fitting retrofitted with a LED bulb.

No dennis. The reason they last less long is a) the
manufacturer couldn't care less as long as it makes a few
years

So don;t buy from a cheap manufacturer. The same goes for any
product.


b) since it's only on a small % of time they push the LEDs much
harder. BC/ES LEDs OTOH are rated at 15-25k hours

why would they need to push them harder ? Ah because they are
crap quality to start with ?



because it suits tabby's argument.

he ignores the often reported failures of LED bulbs due to over
heating of the PSU in the base.

Of course you could buy philips hue bulbs which will have a switch
mode supply in them but they are £20+. The cheap ones come with a
crappy capacitor dropper which wont last a year in an unventilated
lamp or even one that has the bulb hanging down. .

I see you're dodging reality again. A year is 8,760 hours. A 15k or
25k rating means the lamps last an average of 15 or 25k hours run
time. That there are infant failures on all LED lamps makes not one
whit of difference. Other than the relamping cost of £3 versus £70.

Just as well they come with 3 - 5 year warranties then...

whatever use is that? I expect light fittings to last decades, and mine do.

Most decorate more than once every couple of decades and usually lighting styles and their fixtures change.

funny how that works. People buy junk, get fed up with it after 10 years and replace it with more junk. Rinse & repeat. While those that know what they're doing buy something satisfactory & keep it for life. And no surprise, in time it becomes the most desirable lighting around. Some of course short circuit that process & buy good very old fittings.


It'd be nice if they did last 100+ years.

they do. Assuming you don't buy idiot designs.


Even here at work where the lab is getting a serious makeover there's no plans to keep the 1990s light fitting (tubes) , just how many here use floruescant tubes in the kitchen now, most places I see now have downlighters which I don;t really like.

Lab lighting is very different to domestic


NT

On 16/08/2019 12:57, John Rumm wrote:
On 11/08/2019 10:02, wrote:
On Saturday, 10 August 2019 23:06:44 UTC+1, tim...Â* wrote:
"pinnerite" wrote in message
...
I bought an LED outside light less than 3 years ago from Homebase.
It was whiteÂ* and less obtrusiveÂ* against our white walls.
Recently it started to barely glow.

My electrician, as friend for over 50 years popped i to deliver
something. I showed him the lamp which he had fitted. He laughed and
said
'you need to get a new one'. The original came in a sealed unit so
couldn't be repaired.

He will no longer supply them because so many are unreliable. He
mentioned a brand that he claimed was more reliable than most but I
could
not find it on the web so purchased one that claimed that it was water-
proof.

I should have come here first and sought advice but I reckon I am
losing
it.



Hm,

I've got a sealed for life LED lamp in my kitchen, admittedly on a
switch

Hope that I get better than 3 years out of it.

It came from B&Q and I think it was what appears to be their "own" brand
"Colours"

tim

Why do people buy light fittings with bulbs they can't change?

Because the lamp lasts the life of the fitting... in theory at least.

I used three of these in one of my bathrooms:

https://trade.ledhut.co.uk/8w-integr...reflector.html


They give lots of decent quality light, are easy to fit, and have a slim
back projection which was important for the situation.




That's neat, I also like the colour temperature switch that lets you
adjust to your decor in situ without having to faff around with
different bulbs.

wrote in message
...
On Monday, 19 August 2019 13:57:09 UTC+1, whisky-dave wrote:
On Sunday, 18 August 2019 20:15:38 UTC+1, tabby wrote:
On Sunday, 18 August 2019 13:30:11 UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:
On 14/08/2019 15:06, tabbypurr wrote:
On Wednesday, 14 August 2019 12:50:58 UTC+1, dennis@home wrote:
On 14/08/2019 11:44, whisky-dave wrote:
On Wednesday, 14 August 2019 00:09:42 UTC+1, tabby wrote:
On Tuesday, 13 August 2019 16:54:37 UTC+1, dennis@home wrote:
On 13/08/2019 10:06, tabbypurr wrote:

Rebulbable lights last far longer, come in a huge range of
looks, and are cheaper.

Lights with fixed LEDs last longer,

the life of one LED only. Duh.

with is ~10 years if they are only on for 12 hours a day.

Some don't even live in the same property for that long.


come in a huge range of looks, and are cheaper.


The reason they last longer is because they can be cooled
better than some random fitting retrofitted with a LED bulb.

No dennis. The reason they last less long is a) the
manufacturer couldn't care less as long as it makes a few
years

So don;t buy from a cheap manufacturer. The same goes for any
product.


b) since it's only on a small % of time they push the LEDs much
harder. BC/ES LEDs OTOH are rated at 15-25k hours

why would they need to push them harder ? Ah because they are
crap quality to start with ?



because it suits tabby's argument.

he ignores the often reported failures of LED bulbs due to over
heating of the PSU in the base.

Of course you could buy philips hue bulbs which will have a switch
mode supply in them but they are £20+. The cheap ones come with a
crappy capacitor dropper which wont last a year in an unventilated
lamp or even one that has the bulb hanging down. .

I see you're dodging reality again. A year is 8,760 hours. A 15k or
25k rating means the lamps last an average of 15 or 25k hours run
time. That there are infant failures on all LED lamps makes not one
whit of difference. Other than the relamping cost of £3 versus £70.

Just as well they come with 3 - 5 year warranties then...

whatever use is that? I expect light fittings to last decades, and mine
do.

Most decorate more than once every couple of decades and usually lighting
styles and their fixtures change.

funny how that works. People buy junk, get fed up with it after
10 years and replace it with more junk. Rinse & repeat. While
those that know what they're doing buy something satisfactory

Thats what I did, with the fluoros and PAR38 floods.

& keep it for life.

I wasnt that stupid when something much better showed up, the
Hue leds that mean I dont have to fart around turning things on
and off all the time, its all completely automatic now. And I dont
have to keep replacing the PAR38s as they die either.

And no surprise, in time it becomes the most desirable lighting around.

Just another of your silly little pig ignorant fantasys.

Some of course short circuit that process & buy good very old fittings.

Only a fool would do that with fluoros and PAR38s today.

It'd be nice if they did last 100+ years.

they do. Assuming you don't buy idiot designs.

But still need rebulbing periodically.

Even here at work where the lab is getting a serious makeover
there's no plans to keep the 1990s light fitting (tubes) , just how
many here use floruescant tubes in the kitchen now, most places
I see now have downlighters which I don;t really like.

Lab lighting is very different to domestic

Bull****.

On Tue, 20 Aug 2019 12:18:19 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH another 107 !!! lines of the senile trolling Australian asshole's
latest troll****

--
Website (from 2007) dedicated to the 85-year-old trolling senile
cretin from Oz:
https://www.pcreview.co.uk/threads/r...d-faq.2973853/

On Monday, 19 August 2019 20:30:34 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Sunday, 18 August 2019 20:15:38 UTC+1, wrote:
On Sunday, 18 August 2019 13:30:11 UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:
On 14/08/2019 15:06, tabbypurr wrote:
On Wednesday, 14 August 2019 12:50:58 UTC+1, dennis@home wrote:
On 14/08/2019 11:44, whisky-dave wrote:
On Wednesday, 14 August 2019 00:09:42 UTC+1, tabby wrote:
On Tuesday, 13 August 2019 16:54:37 UTC+1, dennis@home wrote:
On 13/08/2019 10:06, tabbypurr wrote:

Rebulbable lights last far longer, come in a huge range of
looks, and are cheaper.

Lights with fixed LEDs last longer,

the life of one LED only. Duh.

with is ~10 years if they are only on for 12 hours a day.

Some don't even live in the same property for that long.


come in a huge range of looks, and are cheaper.


The reason they last longer is because they can be cooled
better than some random fitting retrofitted with a LED bulb.

No dennis. The reason they last less long is a) the
manufacturer couldn't care less as long as it makes a few
years

So don;t buy from a cheap manufacturer. The same goes for any
product.


b) since it's only on a small % of time they push the LEDs much
harder. BC/ES LEDs OTOH are rated at 15-25k hours

why would they need to push them harder ? Ah because they are
crap quality to start with ?



because it suits tabby's argument.

he ignores the often reported failures of LED bulbs due to over
heating of the PSU in the base.

Of course you could buy philips hue bulbs which will have a switch
mode supply in them but they are £20+. The cheap ones come with a
crappy capacitor dropper which wont last a year in an unventilated
lamp or even one that has the bulb hanging down. .

I see you're dodging reality again. A year is 8,760 hours. A 15k or
25k rating means the lamps last an average of 15 or 25k hours run
time. That there are infant failures on all LED lamps makes not one
whit of difference. Other than the relamping cost of £3 versus £70.

Just as well they come with 3 - 5 year warranties then...

whatever use is that? I expect light fittings to last decades, and mine
do.

Most decorate more than once every couple of decades and usually lighting
styles and their fixtures change.

It'd be nice if they did last 100+ years.

Even here at work where the lab is getting a serious makeover there's no
plans to keep the 1990s light fitting (tubes) , just how many here use
floruescant tubes in the kitchen now, most places I see now have
downlighters which I don;t really like.

I use very long led strip lights now in the kitchen.

I made my own over 10 years ago now, as secondary lighting, I have 4 LED dimmer spotlamps on the ceiling as the main lighting source.

On Monday, 19 August 2019 22:34:58 UTC+1, wrote:
On Monday, 19 August 2019 13:47:55 UTC+1, whisky-dave wrote:
On Wednesday, 14 August 2019 17:15:05 UTC+1, tabby wrote:
On Wednesday, 14 August 2019 15:56:11 UTC+1, whisky-dave wrote:
On Wednesday, 14 August 2019 12:13:33 UTC+1, tabby wrote:
On Wednesday, 14 August 2019 11:44:25 UTC+1, whisky-dave wrote:
On Wednesday, 14 August 2019 00:09:42 UTC+1, tabby wrote:
On Tuesday, 13 August 2019 16:54:37 UTC+1, dennis@home wrote:
On 13/08/2019 10:06, tabbypurr wrote:

Rebulbable lights last far longer, come in a huge range of looks, and are cheaper.

Lights with fixed LEDs last longer,

the life of one LED only. Duh.

with is ~10 years if they are only on for 12 hours a day.

nope

Yep.

50K hours life Do you know how to work out how many hours in a year ?
ASk google if not. It's 8760. So runnig 24/7/365 that is 50,000/8760=5.7 years so about 5, so running it just 12 hours per day then you could expect to last about 10 years.


Some don't even live in the same property for that long.


come in a huge range of looks, and
are cheaper.


The reason they last longer is because they can be cooled better than
some random fitting retrofitted with a LED bulb.

No dennis. The reason they last less long is
a) the manufacturer couldn't care less as long as it makes a few years

So don;t buy from a cheap manufacturer. The same goes for any product.

whoosh

Well if you can only aford ebay items shipped from china you may well be getting 2nd rate out of spec LED's

Perhaps they are better suited to you though.



b) since it's only on a small % of time they push the LEDs much harder.
BC/ES LEDs OTOH are rated at 15-25k hours

why would they need to push them harder ?
Ah because they are crap quality to start with ?

because they can.

Why shorten their life by pushing them ?

If its only on for brief periods, it's cheaper to use less LEDs & cook em. Cheap is everything.

Only from cheap supliers.



NT

Once again you're an eejit. I should not be surprised.

Only an eejit thinks all LEDs are the same.

quite. Did anyone claim they were, or are you just making stuff up again?

So why believe all LEDs have the same life expectancy.


Even then you have the PSU that will have a shorter life than the LEDs have.

Not usually

Yes if yuo expect LED's to last 5+ years take a look at the capacitors in the encapsulated lights, I had one fail last week, the LEDs still work though, they come on whehn cold but as the LED lamp heats up they start flickering then go off, then a while later they flicker on again this is a sign that the caps are drying out as they do all all capacitors over time.
This LED lamp is in a hallway and has been there since about 2006, so it's not done bad one failed last year similar fashion, all 4 LEDs flash that shows it NOT a single LED that has gone faulty.

On Monday, 19 August 2019 22:39:34 UTC+1, wrote:
On Monday, 19 August 2019 13:57:09 UTC+1, whisky-dave wrote:


Just as well they come with 3 - 5 year warranties then...

whatever use is that? I expect light fittings to last decades, and mine do.

Most decorate more than once every couple of decades and usually lighting styles and their fixtures change.

funny how that works. People buy junk, get fed up with it after 10 years and replace it with more junk. Rinse & repeat.

Yes they do that is how most people live.

While those that know what they're doing buy something satisfactory & keep it for life.

No they don't well perhaps royalty, stately homes might do.
do you really think people take their light switches with them when they move.

Do you also buy a car for life the best car you can possibley afford and keep it for 50+ years ?

Do most only buy one house and live in it forever ?


And no surprise, in time it becomes the most desirable lighting around. Some of course short circuit that process & buy good very old fittings.

and most don't.
Most also have to upgrade their electrics, not everyone has bought the best quality bulb and still has that running on DC for the last 50+ years.
Some of us have even replpaced our underwear in the last decade destite perhaps buying into armarni boxers. Not everyone is fooled into paying £1000 for a pair of shoe guarrenteed for life.




It'd be nice if they did last 100+ years.

they do. Assuming you don't buy idiot designs.

I bet they buy 100 year old cars too, and have a coal shed to suply their central heating.




Even here at work where the lab is getting a serious makeover there's no plans to keep the 1990s light fitting (tubes) , just how many here use floruescant tubes in the kitchen now, most places I see now have downlighters which I don;t really like.

Lab lighting is very different to domestic

So how come LED's bulbs in the home are so popular, when gas lighting was fine 100 years ago.



NT

On 19/08/2019 23:02, newshound wrote:
On 16/08/2019 12:57, John Rumm wrote:

Why do people buy light fittings with bulbs they can't change?

Because the lamp lasts the life of the fitting... in theory at least.

I used three of these in one of my bathrooms:

https://trade.ledhut.co.uk/8w-integr...reflector.html


They give lots of decent quality light, are easy to fit, and have a
slim back projection which was important for the situation.




That's neat, I also like the colour temperature switch that lets you
adjust to your decor in situ without having to faff around with
different bulbs.

Yup, that was quite nice... went for the "middle" position which is
quite "white" (similar to LV halogen), but not full on "daylight".



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Tuesday, 20 August 2019 11:38:23 UTC+1, whisky-dave wrote:
On Monday, 19 August 2019 22:34:58 UTC+1, tabby wrote:
On Monday, 19 August 2019 13:47:55 UTC+1, whisky-dave wrote:
On Wednesday, 14 August 2019 17:15:05 UTC+1, tabby wrote:

Once again you're an eejit. I should not be surprised.

Only an eejit thinks all LEDs are the same.

quite. Did anyone claim they were, or are you just making stuff up again?

So why believe all LEDs have the same life expectancy.

I've no idea why you believe that. I doubt anyone else does. Certainly no-one claimed to.


Even then you have the PSU that will have a shorter life than the LEDs have.

Not usually

Yes if yuo expect LED's to last 5+ years

depends on the LEDs

take a look at the capacitors in the encapsulated lights, I had one fail last week, the LEDs still work though, they come on whehn cold but as the LED lamp heats up they start flickering then go off, then a while later they flicker on again this is a sign that the caps are drying out as they do all all capacitors over time.

and?

This LED lamp is in a hallway and has been there since about 2006, so it's not done bad one failed last year similar fashion, all 4 LEDs flash that shows it NOT a single LED that has gone faulty.

you're trying to draw across the board conclusions from a sample of 1 again?


NT

On Tuesday, 20 August 2019 11:50:17 UTC+1, whisky-dave wrote:
On Monday, 19 August 2019 22:39:34 UTC+1, tabby wrote:
On Monday, 19 August 2019 13:57:09 UTC+1, whisky-dave wrote:


Just as well they come with 3 - 5 year warranties then...

whatever use is that? I expect light fittings to last decades, and mine do.

Most decorate more than once every couple of decades and usually lighting styles and their fixtures change.

funny how that works. People buy junk, get fed up with it after 10 years and replace it with more junk. Rinse & repeat.

Yes they do that is how most people live.

While those that know what they're doing buy something satisfactory & keep it for life.

No they don't well perhaps royalty, stately homes might do.
do you really think people take their light switches with them when they move.

doubt it, but what has that to do with luminaire life expectancy?

Do you also buy a car for life the best car you can possibley afford and keep it for 50+ years ?

Very few do. Those that do end up with a valuable stylish car.


Do most only buy one house and live in it forever ?

and that has what to do with the life expectancy of luminaires?

And no surprise, in time it becomes the most desirable lighting around. Some of course short circuit that process & buy good very old fittings.

and most don't.

we know this. don't we?

Most also have to upgrade their electrics, not everyone has bought the best quality bulb and still has that running on DC for the last 50+ years.

and that has what to do with the life expectancy of luminaires?

Some of us have even replpaced our underwear in the last decade destite perhaps buying into armarni boxers.

what has the life of short lived goods got to do with the life expectancy of luminaires?

Not everyone is fooled into paying £1000 for a pair of shoe guarrenteed for life.

and that has what to do with the life expectancy of luminaires?

It'd be nice if they did last 100+ years.

they do. Assuming you don't buy idiot designs.

I bet they buy 100 year old cars too, and have a coal shed to suply their central heating.

who?
The house we put 1930s lighting in has either a century old car nor coal heating.


Even here at work where the lab is getting a serious makeover there's no plans to keep the 1990s light fitting (tubes) , just how many here use floruescant tubes in the kitchen now, most places I see now have downlighters which I don;t really like.

Lab lighting is very different to domestic

So how come LED's bulbs in the home are so popular, when gas lighting was fine 100 years ago.

can you not work that out yourself?
Gas lighting was never fine anyway.


NT

On Wednesday, 21 August 2019 13:34:49 UTC+1, whisky-dave wrote:
On Wednesday, 21 August 2019 10:24:24 UTC+1, tabby wrote:
On Tuesday, 20 August 2019 11:50:17 UTC+1, whisky-dave wrote:
On Monday, 19 August 2019 22:39:34 UTC+1, tabby wrote:
On Monday, 19 August 2019 13:57:09 UTC+1, whisky-dave wrote:


Just as well they come with 3 - 5 year warranties then...

whatever use is that? I expect light fittings to last decades, and mine do.

Most decorate more than once every couple of decades and usually lighting styles and their fixtures change.

funny how that works. People buy junk, get fed up with it after 10 years and replace it with more junk. Rinse & repeat.

Yes they do that is how most people live.

While those that know what they're doing buy something satisfactory & keep it for life.

No they don't well perhaps royalty, stately homes might do.
do you really think people take their light switches with them when they move.

doubt it, but what has that to do with luminaire life expectancy?

How many people take light bulbs with them when they move house ?
Most dont; buy just for luminaire life expectancy, they go by what fits the socket and then they type or style.



Do you also buy a car for life the best car you can possibley afford and keep it for 50+ years ?

Very few do. Those that do end up with a valuable stylish car.

If they don't use it much. But for most people they buy cars to use and sell second hand.



Do most only buy one house and live in it forever ?

and that has what to do with the life expectancy of luminaires?

So you don;t leave a hous ebecause yup've bought expensive luminaire life expectancy bulbs.


And no surprise, in time it becomes the most desirable lighting around. Some of course short circuit that process & buy good very old fittings..

and most don't.

we know this. don't we?

Yes.



Not everyone is fooled into paying £1000 for a pair of shoe guarrenteed for life.

and that has what to do with the life expectancy of luminaires?

you sound like wodney.

You seem to have forgotten the topic. I don't mind.


NT

On Wednesday, 21 August 2019 23:22:17 UTC+1, wrote:
On Wednesday, 21 August 2019 13:34:49 UTC+1, whisky-dave wrote:
On Wednesday, 21 August 2019 10:24:24 UTC+1, tabby wrote:
On Tuesday, 20 August 2019 11:50:17 UTC+1, whisky-dave wrote:
On Monday, 19 August 2019 22:39:34 UTC+1, tabby wrote:
On Monday, 19 August 2019 13:57:09 UTC+1, whisky-dave wrote:


Just as well they come with 3 - 5 year warranties then...

whatever use is that? I expect light fittings to last decades, and mine do.

Most decorate more than once every couple of decades and usually lighting styles and their fixtures change.

funny how that works. People buy junk, get fed up with it after 10 years and replace it with more junk. Rinse & repeat.

Yes they do that is how most people live.

While those that know what they're doing buy something satisfactory & keep it for life.

No they don't well perhaps royalty, stately homes might do.
do you really think people take their light switches with them when they move.

doubt it, but what has that to do with luminaire life expectancy?

How many people take light bulbs with them when they move house ?
Most dont; buy just for luminaire life expectancy, they go by what fits the socket and then they type or style.



Do you also buy a car for life the best car you can possibley afford and keep it for 50+ years ?

Very few do. Those that do end up with a valuable stylish car.

If they don't use it much. But for most people they buy cars to use and sell second hand.



Do most only buy one house and live in it forever ?

and that has what to do with the life expectancy of luminaires?

So you don;t leave a hous ebecause yup've bought expensive luminaire life expectancy bulbs.


And no surprise, in time it becomes the most desirable lighting around. Some of course short circuit that process & buy good very old fittings.

and most don't.

we know this. don't we?

Yes.



Not everyone is fooled into paying £1000 for a pair of shoe guarrenteed for life.

and that has what to do with the life expectancy of luminaires?

you sound like wodney.

You seem to have forgotten the topic. I don't mind.


I've not forgotten, perhaps yuo decided to change it to warrenties and how useful they are.