I bought an LED outside light less than 3 years ago from Homebase.
It was white and less obtrusive against our white walls.
Recently it started to barely glow.

My electrician, as friend for over 50 years popped i to deliver
something. I showed him the lamp which he had fitted. He laughed and said
'you need to get a new one'. The original came in a sealed unit so
couldn't be repaired.

He will no longer supply them because so many are unreliable. He
mentioned a brand that he claimed was more reliable than most but I could
not find it on the web so purchased one that claimed that it was water-
proof.

I should have come here first and sought advice but I reckon I am losing
it.


--
Mint 19.1, kernel 4.15.0-55-generic, Cinnamon 4.0.9
running on an AMD Phenom II X4 Black edition.

pinnerite wrote:

I bought an LED outside light less than 3 years ago from Homebase.
It was white and less obtrusive against our white walls.
Recently it started to barely glow.

My electrician, as friend for over 50 years popped i to deliver
something. I showed him the lamp which he had fitted. He laughed and said
'you need to get a new one'. The original came in a sealed unit so
couldn't be repaired.

He will no longer supply them because so many are unreliable. He
mentioned a brand that he claimed was more reliable than most but I could
not find it on the web so purchased one that claimed that it was water-
proof.

I should have come here first and sought advice but I reckon I am losing
it.

I've had one of the Lucky Golden Hedgehog LEDs, they tend to be
underpowered compared to the claim on the box, and tend to have an earth
wire flapping around unattached inside.

I swapped to an "iSpot", only had it a couple of years, but it seems
much more well made than the cheapo, the PSU is on-board with the LED,
whole case heatsink is massive.

https://www.ryness.co.uk/30w-ispot-c-led-floodlight-in-black?variant=14491

I don't think I paid anything like that price for it, but Screwfix have
stopped stocking them for some reason, so far no problems with it (apart
from a fairly short mains cable on it).

I have recently installed two of these and their 30W big brother and can recommend them. My reasons for choosing is they are completely waterproof IP65, they come with a short length of cable attached with waterproof gland so no worrying about making a waterproof connection hanging off a ladder. The cable entry is in the bottom edge and as I wanted them to be nearer horizontal than vertical means added protection from ingress. If like me you want to have them pointed downwards then I suggest you use a separate PIR, the ones that come with an attached PIR are often difficult to angle either the lamp or the PIR.

Richard

On 10/08/2019 17:19, Tricky Dicky wrote:
I have recently installed two of these and their 30W big brother and can recommend them. My reasons for choosing is they are completely waterproof IP65, they come with a short length of cable attached with waterproof gland so no worrying about making a waterproof connection hanging off a ladder. The cable entry is in the bottom edge and as I wanted them to be nearer horizontal than vertical means added protection from ingress. If like me you want to have them pointed downwards then I suggest you use a separate PIR, the ones that come with an attached PIR are often difficult to angle either the lamp or the PIR.

Richard



I've fitted this type that appears to work well

https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/LTUSF10MCW.html

They come in 10, 30 or 50W versions
The function can be changed by a remote control. The light flashes once
to acknowledge a change of function and the last function selected is
remembered even if the power is removed.
It has a inbuilt microwave motion sensor.

The whole light fitting is slim/small. However it only comes with a very
short fitted cable and I've used a waterproof connector to connect it to
the mains

https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/WPQC1.html

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On 10/08/2019 16:52, Andy Burns wrote:


I don't think I paid anything like that price for it, but Screwfix have
stopped stocking them for some reason, so far no problems with it (apart
from a fairly short mains cable on it).

I fitted a couple of screwfix ones a little while ago, ended up going
inside the box to fit a new mains lead and on one of them the original
earth connection failed (dry soldered to an internal screw). That might
be why Screwfix are being more careful).

"pinnerite" wrote in message
...
I bought an LED outside light less than 3 years ago from Homebase.
It was white and less obtrusive against our white walls.
Recently it started to barely glow.

My electrician, as friend for over 50 years popped i to deliver
something. I showed him the lamp which he had fitted. He laughed and said
'you need to get a new one'. The original came in a sealed unit so
couldn't be repaired.

He will no longer supply them because so many are unreliable. He
mentioned a brand that he claimed was more reliable than most but I could
not find it on the web so purchased one that claimed that it was water-
proof.

I should have come here first and sought advice but I reckon I am losing
it.



Hm,

I've got a sealed for life LED lamp in my kitchen, admittedly on a switch

Hope that I get better than 3 years out of it.

It came from B&Q and I think it was what appears to be their "own" brand
"Colours"

tim

Oooops! Forgot to include the relevent URL in the last post

https://www.cef.co.uk/catalogue/prod...ht-4000k-black

Richard

newshound wrote in
o.uk:

On 10/08/2019 16:52, Andy Burns wrote:


I don't think I paid anything like that price for it, but Screwfix
have stopped stocking them for some reason, so far no problems with
it (apart from a fairly short mains cable on it).

I fitted a couple of screwfix ones a little while ago, ended up going
inside the box to fit a new mains lead and on one of them the original
earth connection failed (dry soldered to an internal screw). That
might be why Screwfix are being more careful).

Make sure you mount them to dazzle other people!!!

Seems to me that nobody wants to build to last due to the way the sheds and
other vendors make the price margin so low. IE if they were allowed to make
them better, then they would be more expensive but last much longer. Its
the planned obsolescence thing again.
I've noticed the same with most things, insulated mugs, portable radios and
all sorts.
Brian

--
----- --
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Andy Burns" wrote in message
...
pinnerite wrote:

I bought an LED outside light less than 3 years ago from Homebase.
It was white and less obtrusive against our white walls.
Recently it started to barely glow.

My electrician, as friend for over 50 years popped i to deliver
something. I showed him the lamp which he had fitted. He laughed and said
'you need to get a new one'. The original came in a sealed unit so
couldn't be repaired.

He will no longer supply them because so many are unreliable. He
mentioned a brand that he claimed was more reliable than most but I could
not find it on the web so purchased one that claimed that it was water-
proof.

I should have come here first and sought advice but I reckon I am losing
it.

I've had one of the Lucky Golden Hedgehog LEDs, they tend to be
underpowered compared to the claim on the box, and tend to have an earth
wire flapping around unattached inside.

I swapped to an "iSpot", only had it a couple of years, but it seems much
more well made than the cheapo, the PSU is on-board with the LED, whole
case heatsink is massive.

https://www.ryness.co.uk/30w-ispot-c-led-floodlight-in-black?variant=14491

I don't think I paid anything like that price for it, but Screwfix have
stopped stocking them for some reason, so far no problems with it (apart
from a fairly short mains cable on it).

On Saturday, 10 August 2019 23:06:44 UTC+1, tim... wrote:
"pinnerite" wrote in message
...
I bought an LED outside light less than 3 years ago from Homebase.
It was white and less obtrusive against our white walls.
Recently it started to barely glow.

My electrician, as friend for over 50 years popped i to deliver
something. I showed him the lamp which he had fitted. He laughed and said
'you need to get a new one'. The original came in a sealed unit so
couldn't be repaired.

He will no longer supply them because so many are unreliable. He
mentioned a brand that he claimed was more reliable than most but I could
not find it on the web so purchased one that claimed that it was water-
proof.

I should have come here first and sought advice but I reckon I am losing
it.



Hm,

I've got a sealed for life LED lamp in my kitchen, admittedly on a switch

Hope that I get better than 3 years out of it.

It came from B&Q and I think it was what appears to be their "own" brand
"Colours"

tim

Why do people buy light fittings with bulbs they can't change?

On 11/08/2019 08:47, Brian Gaff wrote:
Seems to me that nobody wants to build to last due to the way the sheds and
other vendors make the price margin so low. IE if they were allowed to make
them better, then they would be more expensive but last much longer. Its
the planned obsolescence thing again.
I've noticed the same with most things, insulated mugs, portable radios and
all sorts.
Brian


My Smiths industries bulkhead light with PIR, bought in 1986 is still
working fine.

These days I have connected it via a 3pin plug with a cheap mechanical
timer, so it is only energised from 6pm to 6am, otherwise it uses
20 watts of power all through the day as well.

wrote:

On Saturday, 10 August 2019 23:06:44 UTC+1, tim... wrote:
"pinnerite" wrote in message
...
I bought an LED outside light less than 3 years ago from Homebase.
It was white and less obtrusive against our white walls.
Recently it started to barely glow.

My electrician, as friend for over 50 years popped i to deliver
something. I showed him the lamp which he had fitted. He laughed and said
'you need to get a new one'. The original came in a sealed unit so
couldn't be repaired.

He will no longer supply them because so many are unreliable. He
mentioned a brand that he claimed was more reliable than most but I could
not find it on the web so purchased one that claimed that it was water-
proof.

I should have come here first and sought advice but I reckon I am losing
it.



Hm,

I've got a sealed for life LED lamp in my kitchen, admittedly on a switch

Hope that I get better than 3 years out of it.

It came from B&Q and I think it was what appears to be their "own" brand
"Colours"

tim

Why do people buy light fittings with bulbs they can't change?

Because the concept of a "bulb" belongs to a time when the light
emitting part of a luminaire was a short life relatively cheap to make
encapsulated hot wire. Now that the light emitting part is an
electronic component with many other components to control it and makes
up a significant fraction of the cost to the whole fitting, the idea of
a separate bulb is completely obsolete. Not least because it imposes
artificial restrictions of size and cost on the electronics. There is
no reason why a light fitting should not have the same life as any other
electronic consumer device, and no reason at all why you should expect
to replace part of it rather than the whole.


--

Roger Hayter

tim

Why do people buy light fittings with bulbs they can't change?


If there are no user - servicable parts then hatches and seals, etc are not
needed and the cost should be lower.

On 11/08/2019 11:01, Roger Hayter wrote:
wrote:

On Saturday, 10 August 2019 23:06:44 UTC+1, tim... wrote:
"pinnerite" wrote in message
...
I bought an LED outside light less than 3 years ago from Homebase.
It was white and less obtrusive against our white walls.
Recently it started to barely glow.

My electrician, as friend for over 50 years popped i to deliver
something. I showed him the lamp which he had fitted. He laughed and said
'you need to get a new one'. The original came in a sealed unit so
couldn't be repaired.

He will no longer supply them because so many are unreliable. He
mentioned a brand that he claimed was more reliable than most but I could
not find it on the web so purchased one that claimed that it was water-
proof.

I should have come here first and sought advice but I reckon I am losing
it.



Hm,

I've got a sealed for life LED lamp in my kitchen, admittedly on a switch

Hope that I get better than 3 years out of it.

It came from B&Q and I think it was what appears to be their "own" brand
"Colours"

tim

Why do people buy light fittings with bulbs they can't change?

Because the concept of a "bulb" belongs to a time when the light
emitting part of a luminaire was a short life relatively cheap to make
encapsulated hot wire. Now that the light emitting part is an
electronic component with many other components to control it and makes
up a significant fraction of the cost to the whole fitting, the idea of
a separate bulb is completely obsolete. Not least because it imposes
artificial restrictions of size and cost on the electronics. There is
no reason why a light fitting should not have the same life as any other
electronic consumer device, and no reason at all why you should expect
to replace part of it rather than the whole.



Against which it made it simple to market vast ranges of lamps in many
different designs and powers using a relatively small number bulbs; for
those bulbs to be replaced easily by end-users; and for end users to
keep a stock of them as spares if they wished.

Compa

a. nonagenarian pensioner has ceiling pendant with B22 bulb. Bulb fails.
Neighbour (herself in her 70s) stands on kitchen steps and replaces it.
Cost: £7. (She bought it at Tesco.)

b. octogenarian pensioner has a LED lamp fitted by a handyman. It fails
after 2 years. No family, neighbours etc nearby comfortable with
unscrewing, disconnecting and wiring in a replacement. So another job
for the handyman. Cost (with lamp) over £50. (Not London!)

(These are not fictional examples.)

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

On 11/08/2019 11:22, Robin wrote:
On 11/08/2019 11:01, Roger Hayter wrote:
wrote:

On Saturday, 10 August 2019 23:06:44 UTC+1, tim...Â* wrote:
"pinnerite" wrote in message
...
I bought an LED outside light less than 3 years ago from Homebase.
It was whiteÂ* and less obtrusiveÂ* against our white walls.
Recently it started to barely glow.

My electrician, as friend for over 50 years popped i to deliver
something. I showed him the lamp which he had fitted. He laughed
and said
'you need to get a new one'. The original came in a sealed unit so
couldn't be repaired.

He will no longer supply them because so many are unreliable. He
mentioned a brand that he claimed was more reliable than most but I
could
not find it on the web so purchased one that claimed that it was
water-
proof.

I should have come here first and sought advice but I reckon I am
losing
it.



Hm,

I've got a sealed for life LED lamp in my kitchen, admittedly on a
switch

Hope that I get better than 3 years out of it.

It came from B&Q and I think it was what appears to be their "own"
brand
"Colours"

tim

Why do people buy light fittings with bulbs they can't change?

Because the concept of a "bulb" belongs to a time when the light
emitting part of a luminaire was a short life relatively cheap to make
encapsulated hot wire.Â*Â* Now that the light emitting part is an
electronic component with many other components to control it and makes
up a significant fraction of the cost to the whole fitting, the idea of
a separate bulb is completely obsolete.Â*Â* Not least because it imposes
artificial restrictions of size and cost on the electronics.Â* There is
no reason why a light fitting should not have the same life as any other
electronic consumer device, and no reason at all why you should expect
to replace part of it rather than the whole.



Against which it made it simple to market vast ranges of lamps in many
different designs and powers using a relatively small number bulbs; for
those bulbs to be replaced easily by end-users; and for end users to
keep a stock of them as spares if they wished.

Compa

a.Â*Â*Â* nonagenarian pensioner has ceiling pendant with B22 bulb. Bulb
fails. Neighbour (herself in her 70s) stands on kitchen steps and
replaces it. Cost: £7.Â* (She bought it at Tesco.)

b.Â*Â*Â* octogenarian pensioner has a LED lamp fitted by a handyman.Â* It
fails after 2 years.Â* No family, neighbours etc nearby comfortable with
unscrewing, disconnecting and wiring in a replacement.Â* So another job
for the handyman.Â* Cost (with lamp) over £50.Â* (Not London!)

(These are not fictional examples.)


No reason you can't fit a suitable plug and socket to allow the fitting
to be easily replaced if desired.

Robin wrote:

On 11/08/2019 11:01, Roger Hayter wrote:
wrote:

On Saturday, 10 August 2019 23:06:44 UTC+1, tim... wrote:
"pinnerite" wrote in message
...
I bought an LED outside light less than 3 years ago from Homebase.
It was white and less obtrusive against our white walls.
Recently it started to barely glow.

My electrician, as friend for over 50 years popped i to deliver
something. I showed him the lamp which he had fitted. He laughed and said
'you need to get a new one'. The original came in a sealed unit so
couldn't be repaired.

He will no longer supply them because so many are unreliable. He
mentioned a brand that he claimed was more reliable than most but I could
not find it on the web so purchased one that claimed that it was water-
proof.

I should have come here first and sought advice but I reckon I am losing
it.



Hm,

I've got a sealed for life LED lamp in my kitchen, admittedly on a switch

Hope that I get better than 3 years out of it.

It came from B&Q and I think it was what appears to be their "own" brand
"Colours"

tim

Why do people buy light fittings with bulbs they can't change?

Because the concept of a "bulb" belongs to a time when the light
emitting part of a luminaire was a short life relatively cheap to make
encapsulated hot wire. Now that the light emitting part is an
electronic component with many other components to control it and makes
up a significant fraction of the cost to the whole fitting, the idea of
a separate bulb is completely obsolete. Not least because it imposes
artificial restrictions of size and cost on the electronics. There is
no reason why a light fitting should not have the same life as any other
electronic consumer device, and no reason at all why you should expect
to replace part of it rather than the whole.



Against which it made it simple to market vast ranges of lamps in many
different designs and powers using a relatively small number bulbs; for
those bulbs to be replaced easily by end-users; and for end users to
keep a stock of them as spares if they wished.

Compa

a. nonagenarian pensioner has ceiling pendant with B22 bulb. Bulb fails.
Neighbour (herself in her 70s) stands on kitchen steps and replaces it.
Cost: £7. (She bought it at Tesco.)

Cost of hip replacement and aftercare; 10,000-250,000 pounds. Not
fictional either.




b. octogenarian pensioner has a LED lamp fitted by a handyman. It fails
after 2 years. No family, neighbours etc nearby comfortable with
unscrewing, disconnecting and wiring in a replacement. So another job
for the handyman. Cost (with lamp) over £50. (Not London!)

(These are not fictional examples.)


--

Roger Hayter

On 11/08/2019 11:06, DerbyBorn wrote:

tim

Why do people buy light fittings with bulbs they can't change?


If there are no user - servicable parts then hatches and seals, etc are not
needed and the cost should be lower.


With LED (and previous energy saving) technologies the electronic parts,
including the LED, need to be kept cool. Traditional light bulb
shapes/fittings are not the best of environments to keep the electronics
cool. More modern LEDS lights may have circuits that monitor
temperatures and reduce the light output in order to maintain lower
temperatures. With many LED floodlights the LED is directly bolted to
the metal casing which acts as a large heat-sink.

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On Sunday, 11 August 2019 11:01:26 UTC+1, Roger Hayter wrote:
tabbypurr wrote:

Why do people buy light fittings with bulbs they can't change?

Because the concept of a "bulb" belongs to a time when the light
emitting part of a luminaire was a short life relatively cheap to make

still is

encapsulated hot wire. Now that the light emitting part is an
electronic component with many other components to control it and makes
up a significant fraction of the cost to the whole fitting, the idea of
a separate bulb is completely obsolete.

not even remotely.

Not least because it imposes
artificial restrictions of size and cost on the electronics. There is
no reason why a light fitting should not have the same life as any other
electronic consumer device, and no reason at all why you should expect
to replace part of it rather than the whole.

Let's see. Each time the Led fails I can replace the Led with a new one for £3, or if I were fool enough to fall for what you claim one can buy a new £20 unit and pay an electrician £50 to replace the thing each time. Which do you think is smarter?


NT

On Sunday, 11 August 2019 12:39:33 UTC+1, Roger Hayter wrote:

Cost of hip replacement and aftercare; 10,000-250,000 pounds. Not
fictional either.

Is it perhaps time we stopped putting rock hard floors in new builds that do this? Performance floors aren't hard to fit or expensive. And is it perhaps time for nonogenarians to wear some sort of foam thing around their more fragile bits? Or some sort of personal airbag? And is it not time the NHS got more informed about bone health? It seems to me we're still in the cave era on this.


NT

On Sunday, 11 August 2019 13:13:08 UTC+1, alan_m wrote:
On 11/08/2019 11:06, DerbyBorn wrote:
NT:

Why do people buy light fittings with bulbs they can't change?


If there are no user - servicable parts then hatches and seals, etc are not
needed and the cost should be lower.


With LED (and previous energy saving) technologies the electronic parts,
including the LED, need to be kept cool. Traditional light bulb
shapes/fittings are not the best of environments to keep the electronics
cool. More modern LEDS lights may have circuits that monitor
temperatures and reduce the light output in order to maintain lower
temperatures. With many LED floodlights the LED is directly bolted to
the metal casing which acts as a large heat-sink.

The extra cooling is a useful feature, but it should not eclipse the far more useful feature of bulb replacement costing £3 not £70.


NT

wrote:

On Sunday, 11 August 2019 12:39:33 UTC+1, Roger Hayter wrote:

Cost of hip replacement and aftercare; 10,000-250,000 pounds. Not
fictional either.

Is it perhaps time we stopped putting rock hard floors in new builds that
do this? Performance floors aren't hard to fit or expensive. And is it
perhaps time for nonogenarians to wear some sort of foam thing around
their more fragile bits? Or some sort of personal airbag? And is it not
time the NHS got more informed about bone health? It seems to me we're
still in the cave era on this.


NT
All good suggestions but the original postulate was climbing on a chair
to replace a light bulb - as though that were an *advantage* of
replaceable bulbs!


--

Roger Hayter

On Sunday, 11 August 2019 23:46:50 UTC+1, Roger Hayter wrote:
tabbypurr wrote:
On Sunday, 11 August 2019 12:39:33 UTC+1, Roger Hayter wrote:

Cost of hip replacement and aftercare; 10,000-250,000 pounds. Not
fictional either.

Is it perhaps time we stopped putting rock hard floors in new builds that
do this? Performance floors aren't hard to fit or expensive. And is it
perhaps time for nonogenarians to wear some sort of foam thing around
their more fragile bits? Or some sort of personal airbag? And is it not
time the NHS got more informed about bone health? It seems to me we're
still in the cave era on this.


NT
All good suggestions but the original postulate was climbing on a chair
to replace a light bulb - as though that were an *advantage* of
replaceable bulbs!

Obviously it is. What fool thinks it better to pay someone else £70 to change the bulb for them? This discussion is too silly to continue with.


NT

wrote:

alan_m wrote:

With many LED floodlights the LED is directly bolted to
the metal casing which acts as a large heat-sink.

The extra cooling is a useful feature, but it should not eclipse the far more useful feature of bulb replacement costing £3 not £70.

With the cheapo LED floods, there's a separate PSU rattling about within
the case, but there is a trend for the COB-type to have the driver
electronics incorporated onto the same board, e.g.

https://amazon.co.uk/Tesfish-Floodlight/dp/B071HPK5X7

The iSpot model I mentioned is like that, with mains L&N soldered direct
to the board (and need a very chunky soldering iron to re-make the
connection due to the aluminium backed PCB)

So there'd need to be a standard form factor and mains connector to
allow them to become user-replaceable.

On 11/08/2019 23:46, Roger Hayter wrote:
wrote:

On Sunday, 11 August 2019 12:39:33 UTC+1, Roger Hayter wrote:

Cost of hip replacement and aftercare; 10,000-250,000 pounds. Not
fictional either.

Is it perhaps time we stopped putting rock hard floors in new builds that
do this? Performance floors aren't hard to fit or expensive. And is it
perhaps time for nonogenarians to wear some sort of foam thing around
their more fragile bits? Or some sort of personal airbag? And is it not
time the NHS got more informed about bone health? It seems to me we're
still in the cave era on this.


NT
All good suggestions but the original postulate was climbing on a chair
to replace a light bulb - as though that were an *advantage* of
replaceable bulbs!



Chair? What chair? *I* referred to "kitchen steps". If you wanted
disambiguation you only had to ask: 2 wide rubber-coated steps, hand
rail at top, non-slip feet.





--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

On 12/08/2019 01:29, wrote:

Obviously it is. What fool thinks it better to pay someone else £70
to change the bulb for them?

Someone that has nowhere to put a step ladder?

This discussion is too silly to continue
with.

Well its you continuing it.

Robin wrote:

On 11/08/2019 23:46, Roger Hayter wrote:
wrote:

On Sunday, 11 August 2019 12:39:33 UTC+1, Roger Hayter wrote:

Cost of hip replacement and aftercare; 10,000-250,000 pounds. Not
fictional either.

Is it perhaps time we stopped putting rock hard floors in new builds that
do this? Performance floors aren't hard to fit or expensive. And is it
perhaps time for nonogenarians to wear some sort of foam thing around
their more fragile bits? Or some sort of personal airbag? And is it not
time the NHS got more informed about bone health? It seems to me we're
still in the cave era on this.


NT
All good suggestions but the original postulate was climbing on a chair
to replace a light bulb - as though that were an *advantage* of
replaceable bulbs!



Chair? What chair? *I* referred to "kitchen steps". If you wanted
disambiguation you only had to ask: 2 wide rubber-coated steps, hand
rail at top, non-slip feet.

Just add a little dizziness and thin bones.

--

Roger Hayter

On 12/08/2019 10:05, Roger Hayter wrote:
Robin wrote:

On 11/08/2019 23:46, Roger Hayter wrote:
wrote:

On Sunday, 11 August 2019 12:39:33 UTC+1, Roger Hayter wrote:

Cost of hip replacement and aftercare; 10,000-250,000 pounds. Not
fictional either.

Is it perhaps time we stopped putting rock hard floors in new builds that
do this? Performance floors aren't hard to fit or expensive. And is it
perhaps time for nonogenarians to wear some sort of foam thing around
their more fragile bits? Or some sort of personal airbag? And is it not
time the NHS got more informed about bone health? It seems to me we're
still in the cave era on this.


NT
All good suggestions but the original postulate was climbing on a chair
to replace a light bulb - as though that were an *advantage* of
replaceable bulbs!



Chair? What chair? *I* referred to "kitchen steps". If you wanted
disambiguation you only had to ask: 2 wide rubber-coated steps, hand
rail at top, non-slip feet.

Just add a little dizziness and thin bones.


And very many people in their 70s don't have those problems. You seem
to favour them losing their agency to decide if they can safely change a
light bulb.

Oh, and where did that chair come from?

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

Robin wrote:

On 12/08/2019 10:05, Roger Hayter wrote:
Robin wrote:

On 11/08/2019 23:46, Roger Hayter wrote:
wrote:

On Sunday, 11 August 2019 12:39:33 UTC+1, Roger Hayter wrote:

Cost of hip replacement and aftercare; 10,000-250,000 pounds. Not
fictional either.

Is it perhaps time we stopped putting rock hard floors in new builds that
do this? Performance floors aren't hard to fit or expensive. And is it
perhaps time for nonogenarians to wear some sort of foam thing around
their more fragile bits? Or some sort of personal airbag? And is it not
time the NHS got more informed about bone health? It seems to me we're
still in the cave era on this.


NT
All good suggestions but the original postulate was climbing on a chair
to replace a light bulb - as though that were an *advantage* of
replaceable bulbs!



Chair? What chair? *I* referred to "kitchen steps". If you wanted
disambiguation you only had to ask: 2 wide rubber-coated steps, hand
rail at top, non-slip feet.

Just add a little dizziness and thin bones.


And very many people in their 70s don't have those problems. You seem
to favour them losing their agency to decide if they can safely change a
light bulb.

No, I just want to phase out light bulbs.


Oh, and where did that chair come from?

What I always use!


--

Roger Hayter

On Monday, 12 August 2019 01:54:51 UTC+1, Andy Burns wrote:
tabbypurr wrote:
alan_m wrote:

With many LED floodlights the LED is directly bolted to
the metal casing which acts as a large heat-sink.

The extra cooling is a useful feature, but it should not eclipse the far more useful feature of bulb replacement costing £3 not £70.

With the cheapo LED floods, there's a separate PSU rattling about within
the case, but there is a trend for the COB-type to have the driver
electronics incorporated onto the same board, e.g.

https://amazon.co.uk/Tesfish-Floodlight/dp/B071HPK5X7

The iSpot model I mentioned is like that, with mains L&N soldered direct
to the board (and need a very chunky soldering iron to re-make the
connection due to the aluminium backed PCB)

So there'd need to be a standard form factor and mains connector to
allow them to become user-replaceable.

There are. They're called ES & BC.


NT

wrote in message
...
On Saturday, 10 August 2019 23:06:44 UTC+1, tim... wrote:
"pinnerite" wrote in message
...
I bought an LED outside light less than 3 years ago from Homebase.
It was white and less obtrusive against our white walls.
Recently it started to barely glow.

My electrician, as friend for over 50 years popped i to deliver
something. I showed him the lamp which he had fitted. He laughed and
said
'you need to get a new one'. The original came in a sealed unit so
couldn't be repaired.

He will no longer supply them because so many are unreliable. He
mentioned a brand that he claimed was more reliable than most but I
could
not find it on the web so purchased one that claimed that it was water-
proof.

I should have come here first and sought advice but I reckon I am
losing
it.



Hm,

I've got a sealed for life LED lamp in my kitchen, admittedly on a switch

Hope that I get better than 3 years out of it.

It came from B&Q and I think it was what appears to be their "own" brand
"Colours"

tim

Why do people buy light fittings with bulbs they can't change?

It's got a 15+ year lifetime

It looks nice, it's **** easy to fit and the kitchen should be due for
redecoration at about the time it fails

Oh and it was cheap. 15 quid IIRC

For the location it is in, it isn't that much harder to simply replace with
a new one of the same type than replace a bulb, much better than the stupid
florescent tube that was previously there (or a load of poxy
spawn-of-the-devil down-lighters).

tim

"dennis@home" wrote in message
...
On 12/08/2019 01:29, wrote:

Obviously it is. What fool thinks it better to pay someone else £70
to change the bulb for them?

Someone that has nowhere to put a step ladder?

buy a foldable stool-step

more than sufficient for this task (not for all, I'll admit)

wrote in message
...
On Sunday, 11 August 2019 11:01:26 UTC+1, Roger Hayter wrote:
tabbypurr wrote:

Why do people buy light fittings with bulbs they can't change?

Because the concept of a "bulb" belongs to a time when the light
emitting part of a luminaire was a short life relatively cheap to make

still is

encapsulated hot wire. Now that the light emitting part is an
electronic component with many other components to control it and makes
up a significant fraction of the cost to the whole fitting, the idea of
a separate bulb is completely obsolete.

not even remotely.

Not least because it imposes
artificial restrictions of size and cost on the electronics. There is
no reason why a light fitting should not have the same life as any other
electronic consumer device, and no reason at all why you should expect
to replace part of it rather than the whole.

Let's see. Each time the Led fails I can replace the Led with a new one
for £3, or if I were fool enough to fall for what you claim one can buy a
new £20 unit and pay an electrician £50 to replace the thing each time.
Which do you think is smarter?

If it fails within 2 years I shall, indeed, be ****ed off.

But I wont be paying a man 50 quid to replace it. I shall, DIY (that is the
name of the group we are in)

OTOH I expect it to outlast me and be the next owner's problem

tim

wrote in message
...
On Monday, 12 August 2019 01:54:51 UTC+1, Andy Burns wrote:
tabbypurr wrote:
alan_m wrote:

With many LED floodlights the LED is directly bolted to
the metal casing which acts as a large heat-sink.

The extra cooling is a useful feature, but it should not eclipse the
far more useful feature of bulb replacement costing £3 not £70.

With the cheapo LED floods, there's a separate PSU rattling about within
the case, but there is a trend for the COB-type to have the driver
electronics incorporated onto the same board, e.g.

https://amazon.co.uk/Tesfish-Floodlight/dp/B071HPK5X7

The iSpot model I mentioned is like that, with mains L&N soldered direct
to the board (and need a very chunky soldering iron to re-make the
connection due to the aluminium backed PCB)

So there'd need to be a standard form factor and mains connector to
allow them to become user-replaceable.

There are. They're called ES & BC.

what we really need is for them to be plug-inable like remote bell chimes
are

tim

On 10/08/2019 16:36, pinnerite wrote:
I bought an LED outside light less than 3 years ago from Homebase.
It was white and less obtrusive against our white walls.
Recently it started to barely glow.

My electrician, as friend for over 50 years popped i to deliver
something. I showed him the lamp which he had fitted. He laughed and said
'you need to get a new one'. The original came in a sealed unit so
couldn't be repaired.

He will no longer supply them because so many are unreliable. He
mentioned a brand that he claimed was more reliable than most but I could
not find it on the web so purchased one that claimed that it was water-
proof.

I should have come here first and sought advice but I reckon I am losing
it.

I tend to favour "dumb" lamps fed via standalone PIR(s). Much simpler to
replace a PIR on its own if it fails, and you can then have the sensing
bit in the most appropriate place (or places), which might not be
mounted near the lamp.




--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

"John Rumm" wrote in message
o.uk...
On 10/08/2019 16:36, pinnerite wrote:
I bought an LED outside light less than 3 years ago from Homebase.
It was white and less obtrusive against our white walls.
Recently it started to barely glow.

My electrician, as friend for over 50 years popped i to deliver
something. I showed him the lamp which he had fitted. He laughed and said
'you need to get a new one'. The original came in a sealed unit so
couldn't be repaired.

He will no longer supply them because so many are unreliable. He
mentioned a brand that he claimed was more reliable than most but I could
not find it on the web so purchased one that claimed that it was water-
proof.

I should have come here first and sought advice but I reckon I am losing
it.

I tend to favour "dumb" lamps fed via standalone PIR(s). Much simpler to
replace a PIR on its own if it fails, and you can then have the sensing
bit in the most appropriate place (or places), which might not be mounted
near the lamp.

The microwave ones installed inside the lamps are much more sensitive and to
a certain extent can "See" round corners

tim

On Monday, 12 August 2019 21:36:23 UTC+1, tim... wrote:

The microwave ones installed inside the lamps are much more sensitive and to
a certain extent can "See" round corners

That can be a downside too - I've just installed one and it seems to more easily get triggered by nearby trees/bushes moving and whilst the sensitivity can be reduced it does at the cost of missing 'real' events too. Being a low-power LED light (10W in this case) does lessen this being too much of an issue though.

Will be interesting to see what the longevity is like as it's always been the PIR sensors that have failed in my lights in the past.

On Monday, 12 August 2019 12:20:37 UTC+1, tim... wrote:
tabbypurr wrote in message
...
On Saturday, 10 August 2019 23:06:44 UTC+1, tim... wrote:
"pinnerite" wrote in message
...

I bought an LED outside light less than 3 years ago from Homebase.
It was white and less obtrusive against our white walls.
Recently it started to barely glow.

My electrician, as friend for over 50 years popped i to deliver
something. I showed him the lamp which he had fitted. He laughed and
said
'you need to get a new one'. The original came in a sealed unit so
couldn't be repaired.

He will no longer supply them because so many are unreliable. He
mentioned a brand that he claimed was more reliable than most but I
could
not find it on the web so purchased one that claimed that it was water-
proof.

I should have come here first and sought advice but I reckon I am
losing
it.



Hm,

I've got a sealed for life LED lamp in my kitchen, admittedly on a switch

Hope that I get better than 3 years out of it.

It came from B&Q and I think it was what appears to be their "own" brand
"Colours"

tim

Why do people buy light fittings with bulbs they can't change?

It's got a 15+ year lifetime

It looks nice, it's **** easy to fit and the kitchen should be due for
redecoration at about the time it fails

Oh and it was cheap. 15 quid IIRC

Rebulbable lights last far longer, come in a huge range of looks, and are cheaper.

For the location it is in, it isn't that much harder to simply replace with
a new one of the same type than replace a bulb, much better than the stupid
florescent tube that was previously there (or a load of poxy
spawn-of-the-devil down-lighters).

tim

We can replace them, though I'd rather just replace a lightbulb. Most folk can't/won't.


NT

On 13/08/2019 10:06, wrote:

Rebulbable lights last far longer, come in a huge range of looks, and are cheaper.

Lights with fixed LEDs last longer, come in a huge range of looks, and
are cheaper.


The reason they last longer is because they can be cooled better than
some random fitting retrofitted with a LED bulb.

They come in a bigger range of looks because they dont have the huge E27
or B22 bases to worry about and they don't need to provide ventilation
that the bulb needs.

They are cheaper than buying flat panels with bulbs behind them, or
spirally dangaley bits or any of the other fashions people buy these
days which you can't even get bulbs into.

On Tuesday, 13 August 2019 16:54:37 UTC+1, dennis@home wrote:
On 13/08/2019 10:06, tabbypurr wrote:

Rebulbable lights last far longer, come in a huge range of looks, and are cheaper.

Lights with fixed LEDs last longer,

the life of one LED only. Duh.


come in a huge range of looks, and
are cheaper.


The reason they last longer is because they can be cooled better than
some random fitting retrofitted with a LED bulb.

No dennis. The reason they last less long is
a) the manufacturer couldn't care less as long as it makes a few years
b) since it's only on a small % of time they push the LEDs much harder.
BC/ES LEDs OTOH are rated at 15-25k hours

They come in a bigger range of looks because they dont have the huge E27
or B22 bases to worry about and they don't need to provide ventilation
that the bulb needs.

they don't

They are cheaper than buying flat panels with bulbs behind them, or
spirally dangaley bits or any of the other fashions people buy these
days which you can't even get bulbs into.

which have nothing even to do with the topic. What a great debater you are.


NT

On Wednesday, 14 August 2019 00:09:42 UTC+1, wrote:
On Tuesday, 13 August 2019 16:54:37 UTC+1, dennis@home wrote:
On 13/08/2019 10:06, tabbypurr wrote:

Rebulbable lights last far longer, come in a huge range of looks, and are cheaper.

Lights with fixed LEDs last longer,

the life of one LED only. Duh.

with is ~10 years if they are only on for 12 hours a day.

Some don't even live in the same property for that long.


come in a huge range of looks, and
are cheaper.


The reason they last longer is because they can be cooled better than
some random fitting retrofitted with a LED bulb.

No dennis. The reason they last less long is
a) the manufacturer couldn't care less as long as it makes a few years

So don;t buy from a cheap manufacturer. The same goes for any product.


b) since it's only on a small % of time they push the LEDs much harder.
BC/ES LEDs OTOH are rated at 15-25k hours

why would they need to push them harder ?
Ah because they are crap quality to start with ?