On Saturday, 15 September 2018 18:04:59 UTC+1, Fredxx wrote:
On 15/09/2018 17:43, charles wrote:
In article , Dave Plowman (News)
wrote:
In article , F
news@nowhere wrote:
On 15/09/2018 14:06, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article , F
news@nowhere wrote:
I'm more of an old imperial measurement type (AWG/SWG etc) but
believe that 1.5mm is *way* too thin to make an extension lead out
of (unless you just want to make up something specifically for a
lightly loaded lighting application.

Until someone borrows it for a not-so-lightly-loaded application.

Perhaps you didn't know, but UK plugs have a fuse in them?

I do, but am grateful for the reminder. However, not everyone installs
the appropriate fuse.

But a 13 amp fuse is correct for 1.5mm cable...

not if it's still coiled in a reel, The current carrying capacity is
reduiced by 75%. ie to 12A, so: use a 10A fuse in case.

Do you mean reduced by 75%, so the current capability is nearer 4A?

Short term use even at 13A would be fine, however a 10m reel will
dissipate 24W for a 10A load. I can assure you a well insulated reel
will eventually get above 70C internally, the limit for PVC.

70 is not the limit for 70C PVC cable.


NT

Wrote in message:
On Saturday, 15 September 2018 16:58:00 UTC+1, ARW wrote:
On 15/09/2018 13:45, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
GB wrote:
I remember things were ominously quiet one morning when the kids were
small. There was a bang, and the whole house went quiet. It turned out
that the two older boys had decided to wire up a plug. Not having any
idea at all how to do it, they stripped 3 or 4 inches of insulation off
each of the wires and wrapped them round all three plug terminals.
Fortunately, they jammed the top on without leaving any strands of wire
outside the plug, so no children were harmed in this experiment.

Possibly, this was my fault for not showing them exactly how to do it,
but they were only 4 or 5 at the time.

I remember trying to make a magnet aged about 5. No need to guess the
result.


It aimed East and West?

I'm guessing either the wire was bare, or it was plugged into the mains.


NT


Oh for thicker wire...
--
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Jim K


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On 15/09/2018 13:18, Bill Wright wrote:

And yes I took the **** out of him at the wholesalers when he got
stuck trying to get out of the front door with the sign saying pull on
it.

Fair enough. Did he cry?


Only when I said I would like to **** his mother.


--
Adam

On 15/09/2018 19:21, Fredxx wrote:
On 15/09/2018 19:03, Roger Hayter wrote:
Tim Streater wrote:

In article , Andy Burns
wrote:

Fredxx wrote:

You could simply have said, "the diameter of each core excluding
insulation"

Except it's not a diameter of 1.5mm, it's a cross-section of 1.5mm^2

So it's a core diameter of just under 1.4mm.

So solve 2r = (pi)r^2Â* and you will know what wire has a diameter
numerically equal to its CSA.Â*Â* I can't be bothered.Â* But I think trial
and error iteration to two decimal places would be quicker than
remembering the formula for quadratic equations.

It has a trivial solution:

Â*r = 2/pi

In fact I would say assembling the equation was the more difficult part.

So 1.27mm dia has a CSA of 1.27mm^2

Or for oldies, very close to 50''' (thou)


You will get some odd looks and rude comments in a wholesalers if you go
and ask for that.

--
Adam

ARW Wrote in message:
On 15/09/2018 13:18, Bill Wright wrote:

And yes I took the **** out of him at the wholesalers when he got
stuck trying to get out of the front door with the sign saying pull on
it.

Fair enough. Did he cry?


Only when I said I would like to **** his mother.



Ah, Oedipus still in residence?

--
--
Jim K


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
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On 15/09/2018 16:26, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , Cursitor Doom
wrote:

On Sat, 15 Sep 2018 20:42:02 +1000, FMurtz wrote:

Tim Streater wrote:

Does the 1.5mm refer to the overall diameter of the flex, the diameter
of each core including insulation, or the diameter of each core
excluding insulation.

Every one knows what he is referring to except maybe you.

I'm more of an old imperial measurement type (AWG/SWG etc) but believe
that 1.5mm is *way* too thin to make an extension lead out of (unless
you just want to make up something specifically for a lightly loaded
lighting application.

Slight lack of sensa yuma round here, ISTM.

I was minded to add:Â* "..., or is it none of these and the three cores
are all 0.5mm uninsulated twisted together" but I couldn't be arsed. Oh
well.


I could probably get a photo of three 2.5mm cores twisted together. That
would require me going to the van and taking a photo of the griddle I
have been asked to fix.

--
Adam

On 15/09/2018 10:35, Tim Streater wrote:

Does the 1.5mm refer to the overall diameter of the flex, the diameter
of each core including insulation, or the diameter of each core
excluding insulation.


None of the above.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:


Why would you need to get someone to make up such a lead for you?

Nearly all the popular mass-market ones are 1.5mm flex. Still rated
at 13A unwound (as the electricians will tell you) but a significant
power loss for 2.2kW power tools.

2.2kW power tools are hardly domestic. For pro use you should be using
suitable cable and connectors. Think building site.


While motored tools drawing around that Wattage will be rare in domestic
use there are some tools that use around 2kW.
My Makita hot air gun is 2kW ,the Earlex steam stripper is 2.3.

Both will drawing that load longer than the fairly short burst of use of a
drill etc.
Though they will be on the way out eventually Im sure many DIY jobs have
been done by the light of some 500W halogen lamps running from an extension
into a powerless location and tools run from the same source also used on
winter nights and weekends to run a fan heater.

Better to have a beefy extension lead than a small one with limitations for
that purpose.


GH

On Sat, 15 Sep 2018 17:56:18 +0100, John Rumm wrote:

That seemed to be a response after testing lots of cheap chinesium
extension leads and finding that under high loads they would fail
catastrophically. The 10A fuse will still likely carry 13A indefinitely,
but will limit the scope for overloading as far as a 13A fuse would
permit.

We only found out about the 10A fuse when I got some wallah around to do
a bit of welding. Since this was very light gauge stuff which I can't be
doing with, I got this specialist bloke in. He'd been using it on and off
for about 4 hours before the fuse in the reel finally gave up the ghost.
Poor bugger had been cussing about not being able to strike up as
smoothly as he usually could so it looks like his MIG was being current-
starved by a fuse that was 3A less than it should have been for that load.
Had it not been for that incident, I'd most likely never have known!



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On Sun, 16 Sep 2018 04:45:35 +1000, cantankerous trolling senile geezer Rot
Speed blabbered, again:


As I'm sure you know teenage often have surprising gaps in their knowledge
and in the very way they their perception works. You are extremely lucky
because you have the rare pleasure of guiding them, helping them, and
generally reconstructing their minds so they become useful human beings.
Enjoy!

It will be hilarious to hear what they have to say about
Adam when they are old fogeys themselves. Corse none
of us will be around to hear that unless they double the
life expectancy and we don¢t end up as vegys by then.

Or worse, end up as nym-shifting pesky trolls on Usenet like you, Rot!

--
Richard addressing Rot Speed:
"**** you're thick/pathetic excuse for a troll."
MID:

ARW wrote:
On 15/09/2018 13:18, Bill Wright wrote:

And yes I took the **** out of him at the wholesalers when he got
stuck trying to get out of the front door with the sign saying pull on
it.

Fair enough. Did he cry?


Only when I said I would like to **** his mother.



Fear of getting a sibling that might look like you could be the reason for
that.


GH

Tim Streater wrote:

John Rumm wrote:

cheap chinesium extension leads ...

By the way, what is "chinesium"?

copper clad steel wire?

"mechanic" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 15 Sep 2018 17:42:20 +0100, Pamela wrote:

On 09:06 15 Sep 2018, ARW wrote:

OK, so he is 16 and only been with us 8 weeks.
His task was to put a 13A plug onto my blue extension lead. He was
given both the plug and the extension lead and told not to put the
plug top on until I has inspected his wiring.

Did he

1. Fit the plug to the extension lead correctly and leave the plug
top off for inspection

2. Fit the plug to the extension incorrectly and leave the plug
top off for inspect.

3. Have some sort of brain seizure and fit the plug top to a roll
of 1.5mm white 3 core flex that he found in the van AND fit the
plug top so that his wiring could not be inspected.

Answers on a post card to PO BOX W4NK3R.

That is a significant misunderstanding. Without joking, do your
apprentices have a learning disability?

Doesn't say much about the training does it?

There's not training involved in knowing what to
put the plug on and he did wire the plug correctly.

I expect the poor lad
was nervous of the reaction to any mistake so didn't absorb the
instructions properly.

Maybe, but we don't have any video of Adam telling
one what to do so it isn't certain how clearly he says
that or even if he monsters them when doing that.

Treat them like monkeys and monkeys are what
you get.

Not with the best of them. But clearly the best of them
arent likely to be apprentices at 16 now.

On Sat, 15 Sep 2018 17:18:43 +0100, ARW wrote:

But BS1362 13A fuses do not work like that. They will pass 20A most of
the time without ever tripping and 26 A for just long enough to melt the
flex on an extension reel.

As for warnings. Who reads them?

True enough, but what can you expect for 5p or whatever it costs?
When I was a kid, if a fuse blew and we didn't have any fusewire in the
house, dad said just cut a strip off a milk bottle top and use that
instead until you get some more fuse wire. I'm guessing in my grandad's
day, they'd say, "just cut a strip off a milk bottle top and use that."
And in my *great* grandfather's day, they'd say, "just stick a broken
nail in there."
1st year apprentices will think I'm kidding, but I'm actually so not!




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On Sat, 15 Sep 2018 18:13:32 +0100, John Rumm wrote:

So 25m[1] of 1.25mm^2 flex, will have about 24.20 mOhms/m round trip
(i.e. L+N).

I think it's useful at this point to emphasise the "round trip" element
of the calculation here. Far too many diyers seem to think either:

All the current supplied to the load is consumed within it.

Or,

The current the load requires is consumed within it and whatever is left
over is returned to the grid and knocked off your bill.

Peeps, please remember that provided there isn't an earth leakage fault,
*all* the current your domestic installation draws is returned to the
power company. Not only that, but the average *voltage* supplied to your
house over that same 3 months by the power company is precisely zero. So
you're paying all that money every quarter for **** ALL.
HAHAHAHAHAHA!! }:-
stepping away from the obviously forthcoming conflagration ;-



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On Sat, 15 Sep 2018 16:26:37 +0100, Tim Streater wrote:

I was minded to add: "..., or is it none of these and the three cores
are all 0.5mm uninsulated twisted together" but I couldn't be arsed. Oh
well.

Someone else already covered that in an earlier post about callow 14yr
olds wiring sockets, IIRC. :-)





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On Sat, 15 Sep 2018 20:44:38 +0100, ARW wrote:

I could probably get a photo of three 2.5mm cores twisted together. That
would require me going to the van and taking a photo of the griddle I
have been asked to fix.

I'll bet you could tell a tale or two - and not just about all the birds
you've shagged.




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On Sat, 15 Sep 2018 17:18:32 +0100, Fredxx wrote:

On 15/09/2018 16:46, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Fredxx wrote:
On 15/09/2018 11:46, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Tim Streater wrote:
3. Have some sort of brain seizure and fit the plug top to a roll
of 1.5mm white 3 core flex that he found in the van AND fit the
plug top so that his wiring could not be inspected.

Does the 1.5mm refer to the overall diameter of the flex, the
diameter of each core including insulation, or the diameter of each
core excluding insulation.

You contribute to this group and think mains flex with an overall
diameter of 1.5mm exists? The sort of thing an electrician would
carry in his van? And really don't understand what 1.5mm refers to
with cable?

No wonder you are a Tory. Just the sort of thing I'd expect from
Boris.

The sort of response I would expect from a know it all, labour
supporting remainer to a simple question.

You could simply have said, "the diameter of each core excluding
insulation" but choose to score points instead. Why aren't I
surprised.

Not much of an explanation from you. And conductor size isn't measured
by diameter. 1.5mm refers to the area.

That was already established and accepted.

But then partial explanations are the sign of a true Brexiteer. Let
others guess the truth.

A true Brexiter will listen to the truth and amend accordingly.

A labour supporter remainer will resort to ridicule rather than answer a
simple question.[1]


[1] Assuming they knew the answer of course.

It was George Orwell (no less - a one-time darling of the Left) who said
that if they can't fault the reasoning in your opinion, they'll find
fault with the *style* it was expressed in. Which is precisely what
happened to Boris last week with his "suicide vest" article.




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On Sun, 16 Sep 2018 06:25:44 +1000, Josh Nack, better known as cantankerous
trolling senile geezer Rot Speed, wrote:

There's not training involved in knowing what to
put the plug on and he did wire the plug correctly.

I expect the poor lad
was nervous of the reaction to any mistake so didn't absorb the
instructions properly.

Maybe, but we don't have any video of Adam telling
one what to do so it isn't certain how clearly he says
that or even if he monsters them when doing that.

Treat them like monkeys and monkeys are what
you get.

Not with the best of them. But clearly the best of them
arent likely to be apprentices at 16 now.

Darn, you haven't been there, just like you haven't been in the EU ...but
you STILL know everything better about everything than anyone else! Get
TREATMENT, senile cretin!

--
Bill Wright to Rot Speed:
"That confirms my opinion that you are a despicable little ****."
MID:

On Sat, 15 Sep 2018 21:14:41 +0100, Pamela wrote:

was nervous of the reaction to any mistake so didn't absorb the
instructions properly. Treat them like monkeys and monkeys are what
you get.

The apprentice seems not to have been paying the slightest attention to
the instructions and wandered off to find another length of cable which
wasn't even mentioned and fitted a plug to that.

Not really,
He's just laying down the groundwork for the next time he's asked.

Next time the plug will be on the right cable, the top will be on and
ARW will be in heaven. Literally, if he doesn't don the rubber gloves
and wellies :-)

The apprentice will have a wonderfully erratic track record that will
render him almost blameless and ARW's remains will not be thought
highly of.

Apprentice 1, ARW 0


AB

On Sat, 15 Sep 2018 19:30:53 +0100, ARW wrote:


All I did was give a thick **** an extension reel, a 13A plug and a
simple task.

Simple to *us* maybe, but to a callow youth barely able to wank
successfully?
Today's kids know **** all. But I'm guessing our own 'elders' thought the
same about *us* back in the day, if you cast your mind back far enough.
:-)




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On Sat, 15 Sep 2018 17:56:18 +0100, John Rumm wrote:

That seemed to be a response after testing lots of cheap chinesium
extension leads and finding that under high loads they would fail
catastrophically.

Was looking at short (1 or 2 m ish) 4 way "extensions" in Tesco. The
first thing that I noticed was the flex was only about 5 mm dia, then
saw the sticker "10 A Fuse Fitted".

The 10A fuse will still likely carry 13A indefinitely, but will limit
the scope for overloading as far as a 13A fuse would permit.

A 13 A fuse lasts about 1 1/2 kettles full (5 mins?) when sharing
with an urn... load of 4 to 5 kW (16 to 20 A)

--
Cheers
Dave.

Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Sat, 15 Sep 2018 20:42:02 +1000, FMurtz wrote:

Tim Streater wrote:

Does the 1.5mm refer to the overall diameter of the flex, the diameter
of each core including insulation, or the diameter of each core
excluding insulation.

Every one knows what he is referring to except maybe you.

I'm more of an old imperial measurement type (AWG/SWG etc) but believe
that 1.5mm is *way* too thin to make an extension lead out of (unless you
just want to make up something specifically for a lightly loaded lighting
application.




You would be wrong, thousands, maybe millions of 240v extension leads
are 1mm square csa.

F wrote:
On 15/09/2018 11:20, ARW wrote:
On 15/09/2018 11:05, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Sat, 15 Sep 2018 09:06:58 +0100, ARW wrote:

3. Have some sort of brain seizure and fit the plug top to a roll of
1.5mm white 3 core flex that he found in the van AND fit the plug
top so
that his wiring could not be inspected.

Answers on a post card to PO BOX W4NK3R.

Somehow I just *know* it's going to be No.3, however inexplicably
improbable that might be. :-)



For what it is worth he actually wired the plug up correctly (I took the
top off and checked).

It's a pity that he had not fitted it to the extension lead that he was
given.

Better than the extension lead I once saw which had a plug at each end!
The idiot had put a socket on the table lamp flex...

-
F
They are good for gen sets to house in a blackout

on 15/09/2018, Cursitor Doom supposed :
Peeps, please remember that provided there isn't an earth leakage fault,
*all* the current your domestic installation draws is returned to the
power company. Not only that, but the average *voltage* supplied to your
house over that same 3 months by the power company is precisely zero. So
you're paying all that money every quarter for **** ALL.
HAHAHAHAHAHA!! }:-
stepping away from the obviously forthcoming conflagration ;-

Perfectly true lol

What they ought to do is count the electrons on the way in, then count
them on the way back out - they should only be able to charge us for
the difference between the two, those we have actually consumed.

Its very interesting this issue of loss. I have a very beefy armoured cable
connected to a 13 amp spur in the house and used to feed a couple of sheds
and a garage 100 foot away, for normal stuff its fine, even domestic power
tools but add a fan heater and you can see the lights dim as it turns on.
Obviously not a serious issue in the main for such things, but far worse
than the conductor diameter might have indicated.
Nowhere near the 13 amp fuse though of course if you were daft enough to
put lots of high current devices on the end the fuse in the spur would blow
telling you you really should have it wired through a proper separate
breaker on the CU!. This was a while ago when I could see. Since there is
only one shed left, when I reconnect the cable I'm not going to replace the
current system!
Brian

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"John Rumm" wrote in message
o.uk...
On 15/09/2018 14:34, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Sat, 15 Sep 2018 13:54:12 +0100, Roger Hayter wrote:

In an ideal world you'd think so, wouldn't you? But in practice I had a
lot of searching to do to find someone who'd sell me a made up extension
lead on a reel 25m long and 2.5mm^2 flex. Nearly all the popular
mass-market ones are 1.5mm flex. Still rated at 13A unwound (as the
electricians will tell you) but a significant power loss for 2.2kW power
tools.

Good Lord!! For once I'm lost for words. :-/

So 25m[1] of 1.25mm^2 flex, will have about 24.20 mOhms/m round trip (i.e.
L+N).

So that's about 0.61 ohms for the whole lead. A 2.2kW tool suggests about
9.6A of load, so that would give a dissipation of about 56W... not
massive, but enough to get it reasonably hot. At a full 13A load that gets
to 100W.

[1] I have some 50m extension leads as well, in an enclosed spool, so 200W
of dissipation on that might be more of a problem if used coiled.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 15/09/2018 22:33, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Sat, 15 Sep 2018 19:30:53 +0100, ARW wrote:


All I did was give a thick **** an extension reel, a 13A plug and a
simple task.

Simple to *us* maybe, but to a callow youth barely able to wank
successfully?
Today's kids know **** all. But I'm guessing our own 'elders' thought the
same about *us* back in the day, if you cast your mind back far enough.
:-)

But the plug he fitted was correctly wired. Just for some unknown reason
not to the extension lead he was given.

If I cast my mind back I remember getting home from school and having to
sort out the two way wiring in my parent's kitchen that the builder had
messed up.

True nowadays they know **** all and what makes it worse is their lack
of any attempt to try to work out a solution and simply give up.

Take the top left picture of this

https://www.goffsuk.com/history

Do you think you could measure the height of that ceiling with a 5m tape
measure and how long do you think it would take you? mm perfect
measurement is not required.

--
Adam

On Sun, 16 Sep 2018 16:35:55 +1000, FMurtz wrote:

Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Sat, 15 Sep 2018 20:42:02 +1000, FMurtz wrote:

Tim Streater wrote:

Does the 1.5mm refer to the overall diameter of the flex, the
diameter of each core including insulation, or the diameter of each
core excluding insulation.

Every one knows what he is referring to except maybe you.

I'm more of an old imperial measurement type (AWG/SWG etc) but believe
that 1.5mm is *way* too thin to make an extension lead out of (unless
you just want to make up something specifically for a lightly loaded
lighting application.




You would be wrong, thousands, maybe millions of 240v extension leads
are 1mm square csa.

He only things that because he believes that all cable CSAs should be in
square microfurlongs. A good British measurement.

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"charles" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
F news@nowhere wrote:
I'm more of an old imperial measurement type (AWG/SWG etc) but
believe
that 1.5mm is *way* too thin to make an extension lead out of (unless
you just want to make up something specifically for a lightly loaded
lighting application.

Until someone borrows it for a not-so-lightly-loaded application.

Perhaps you didn't know, but UK plugs have a fuse in them?

but most people put 13A fuses in them.

ITYM

most people leave in the 13A fuse that they came with

tim

On 15/09/2018 22:31, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq wrote:
On Sat, 15 Sep 2018 21:14:41 +0100, Pamela wrote:

The apprentice seems not to have been paying the slightest attention to
the instructions and wandered off to find another length of cable which
wasn't even mentioned and fitted a plug to that.

And he fitted the plug correctly to wrong cable. So it's a start.


Not really,
He's just laying down the groundwork for the next time he's asked.

Next time the plug will be on the right cable, the top will be on and
ARW will be in heaven. Literally, if he doesn't don the rubber gloves
and wellies :-)

The apprentice will have a wonderfully erratic track record that will
render him almost blameless and ARW's remains will not be thought
highly of.

Apprentice 1, ARW 0



Why do you think I ask for the plug top to be left off? And even if he
fits it I will still be inspecting it.


--
Adam

Yes, however at 16 these days most of the brighter ones or those with better
lines of bull**** are soon to be destined for University where common sense
is removed but lots of useless knowledge is given together with intimate
information about the opposite sex and alcohol.


It was interesting to note that a lady who was probably most known for
presenting the travel news from a plane over London and later shows about
sex on TV actually had Electronic engineering degrees but made her money in
the media, at least when younger mainly because of her bright ability to
talk to time and sound and look sexy in the pictures.
You never know that this particular apprentice might actually have a talent
not yet developed!

Brian

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Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"mechanic" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 15 Sep 2018 17:42:20 +0100, Pamela wrote:

On 09:06 15 Sep 2018, ARW wrote:

OK, so he is 16 and only been with us 8 weeks.
His task was to put a 13A plug onto my blue extension lead. He was
given both the plug and the extension lead and told not to put the
plug top on until I has inspected his wiring.

Did he

1. Fit the plug to the extension lead correctly and leave the plug
top off for inspection

2. Fit the plug to the extension incorrectly and leave the plug
top off for inspect.

3. Have some sort of brain seizure and fit the plug top to a roll
of 1.5mm white 3 core flex that he found in the van AND fit the
plug top so that his wiring could not be inspected.

Answers on a post card to PO BOX W4NK3R.

That is a significant misunderstanding. Without joking, do your
apprentices have a learning disability?

Doesn't say much about the training does it? I expect the poor lad
was nervous of the reaction to any mistake so didn't absorb the
instructions properly. Treat them like monkeys and monkeys are what
you get.

"Fredxx" wrote in message
news
On 15/09/2018 16:46, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Fredxx wrote:
On 15/09/2018 11:46, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Tim Streater wrote:
3. Have some sort of brain seizure and fit the plug top to a roll of
1.5mm white 3 core flex that he found in the van AND fit the plug top
so
that his wiring could not be inspected.

Does the 1.5mm refer to the overall diameter of the flex, the diameter
of each core including insulation, or the diameter of each core
excluding insulation.

You contribute to this group and think mains flex with an overall
diameter
of 1.5mm exists? The sort of thing an electrician would carry in his
van?
And really don't understand what 1.5mm refers to with cable?

No wonder you are a Tory. Just the sort of thing I'd expect from Boris.

The sort of response I would expect from a know it all, labour
supporting remainer to a simple question.

You could simply have said, "the diameter of each core excluding
insulation" but choose to score points instead. Why aren't I surprised.

Not much of an explanation from you. And conductor size isn't measured by
diameter. 1.5mm refers to the area.

That was already established and accepted.

no it wasn't

I haven't a ****ing clue what CSA means (and neither has Google)

tim

However, I detect a very slightly perceptible low expectation generally of
your apprentices and this can be picked up by people even if not voiced.
I get this all the time due to me now being blind, it does not mean one has
to speak slowly or shout as the public think you are either stupid or deaf
as well!

To teach people things several things need to happen.
The person has to have an interest in doing well and learning the subject,
threats do not work, praise does.

They need to understand the world does not owe any of us a living, but that
does not mean its a mean old world. Its fair pay for a fair days work. only
experience can tell you of which type of employer you are working for. If
they are generally good to you if you do well fine but if they are hovering
about watching for the odd mobile phone interaction or sloping off early
then no the best thing to do is work for somebody else..
Nobody is a robot after all.
Brian

--
----- --
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"ARW" wrote in message
...
On 15/09/2018 18:52, mechanic wrote:
On Sat, 15 Sep 2018 17:42:20 +0100, Pamela wrote:

On 09:06 15 Sep 2018, ARW wrote:

OK, so he is 16 and only been with us 8 weeks.
His task was to put a 13A plug onto my blue extension lead. He was
given both the plug and the extension lead and told not to put the
plug top on until I has inspected his wiring.

Did he

1. Fit the plug to the extension lead correctly and leave the plug
top off for inspection

2. Fit the plug to the extension incorrectly and leave the plug
top off for inspect.

3. Have some sort of brain seizure and fit the plug top to a roll
of 1.5mm white 3 core flex that he found in the van AND fit the
plug top so that his wiring could not be inspected.

Answers on a post card to PO BOX W4NK3R.

That is a significant misunderstanding. Without joking, do your
apprentices have a learning disability?

Doesn't say much about the training does it? I expect the poor lad
was nervous of the reaction to any mistake so didn't absorb the
instructions properly. Treat them like monkeys and monkeys are what
you get.


And your reasoning for that?

All I did was give a thick **** an extension reel, a 13A plug and a simple
task.



--
Adam

Cursitor Doom wrote:

On Sat, 15 Sep 2018 17:56:18 +0100, John Rumm wrote:

That seemed to be a response after testing lots of cheap chinesium
extension leads and finding that under high loads they would fail
catastrophically. The 10A fuse will still likely carry 13A indefinitely,
but will limit the scope for overloading as far as a 13A fuse would
permit.

We only found out about the 10A fuse when I got some wallah around to do
a bit of welding. Since this was very light gauge stuff which I can't be
doing with, I got this specialist bloke in. He'd been using it on and off
for about 4 hours before the fuse in the reel finally gave up the ghost.
Poor bugger had been cussing about not being able to strike up as
smoothly as he usually could so it looks like his MIG was being current-
starved by a fuse that was 3A less than it should have been for that load.
Had it not been for that incident, I'd most likely never have known!

Fuses don't do that. A long lead made with thinner wire than claimed
might do it.

--

Roger Hayter

On 16/09/2018 09:16, ARW wrote:

Take the top left picture of this

https://www.goffsuk.com/history

Do you think you could measure the height of that ceiling with a 5m tape
measure and how long do you think it would take you? mm perfect
measurement is not required.


If +/- 0.5m is good enough I'd reckon on 2 mins (to allow for 2 attempts
as a cross-check). I might need to do it a third time if they don't
match. [From the photo I'd expect about 70 hands ]

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

On Sun, 16 Sep 2018 09:26:42 +0100, tim... wrote:

"Fredxx" wrote in message
news
On 15/09/2018 16:46, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Fredxx wrote:
On 15/09/2018 11:46, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Tim Streater wrote:
3. Have some sort of brain seizure and fit the plug top to a roll
of 1.5mm white 3 core flex that he found in the van AND fit the
plug top so that his wiring could not be inspected.

Does the 1.5mm refer to the overall diameter of the flex, the
diameter of each core including insulation, or the diameter of each
core excluding insulation.

You contribute to this group and think mains flex with an overall
diameter of 1.5mm exists? The sort of thing an electrician would
carry in his van?
And really don't understand what 1.5mm refers to with cable?

No wonder you are a Tory. Just the sort of thing I'd expect from
Boris.

The sort of response I would expect from a know it all, labour
supporting remainer to a simple question.

You could simply have said, "the diameter of each core excluding
insulation" but choose to score points instead. Why aren't I
surprised.

Not much of an explanation from you. And conductor size isn't measured
by diameter. 1.5mm refers to the area.

That was already established and accepted.

no it wasn't

I haven't a ****ing clue what CSA means (and neither has Google)

Then you aren't using Google right.

I typed in 'define cable csa' and it was the second hit.

--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

On 15/09/2018 22:13, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Sat, 15 Sep 2018 20:44:38 +0100, ARW wrote:

I could probably get a photo of three 2.5mm cores twisted together. That
would require me going to the van and taking a photo of the griddle I
have been asked to fix.

I'll bet you could tell a tale or two - and not just about all the birds
you've shagged.

Well all my neighbours DIY diveway exploits are on YouTube and the
photos of the vaulted ceiling that nearly collapsed are on the wiki.


--
Adam

ARW wrote:

https://www.goffsuk.com/history

Do you think you could measure the height of that ceiling with a 5m tape
measure and how long do you think it would take you?

Walk to the balcony, measure down to the ring and up to the ceiling.

In article ,
Andy Burns wrote:
ARW wrote:

https://www.goffsuk.com/history

Do you think you could measure the height of that ceiling with a 5m
tape measure and how long do you think it would take you?

Walk to the balcony, measure down to the ring and up to the ceiling.

nah -- stand on the back of the horse then measure up, fall off - repeat
until bored or too badly injured to carry on.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

On 16/09/2018 10:09, Andy Burns wrote:
ARW wrote:

https://www.goffsuk.com/history

Do you think you could measure the height of that ceiling with a 5m
tape measure and how long do you think it would take you?

Walk to the balcony, measure down to the ring and up to the ceiling.

And would you care to guestimate a height from the photo like Robin has?

--
Adam