On Sat, 15 Sep 2018 14:44:04 +0100, charles wrote:

In article ,
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
F news@nowhere wrote:
I'm more of an old imperial measurement type (AWG/SWG etc) but
believe that 1.5mm is *way* too thin to make an extension lead out
of (unless you just want to make up something specifically for a
lightly loaded lighting application.

Until someone borrows it for a not-so-lightly-loaded application.

Perhaps you didn't know, but UK plugs have a fuse in them?

but most people put 13A fuses in them.

I bought an extension reel from BnQ a while back. Eventually discovered
it was fitted with a 10A fuse. Never knew such a thing existed! Still,
probably my fault for simply assuming something from them would be good
for 13A!



--
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protocols constitutes acceptance of this condition.

On 15/09/2018 14:40, ARW wrote:

A 13A fuse when used with a with a wound up lead will allow the flex to
melt well before the fuse blows if you stick 20A to 26A through it for
30 minutes. Imaging two wallpaper stripper plugged into the same wound
up extension.

I leant a flex and wallpaper stripper to a builder working in my house.
He melted the flex with just a single wallpaper stripper. First I knew
about it was when my computer died.




[1] TBH it belongs to Geoff from CET but as I have been using it for the
last 8 years...

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
Roger Hayter wrote:
Cursitor Doom wrote:

On Sat, 15 Sep 2018 20:42:02 +1000, FMurtz wrote:

Tim Streater wrote:

Does the 1.5mm refer to the overall diameter of the flex, the diameter
of each core including insulation, or the diameter of each core
excluding insulation.

Every one knows what he is referring to except maybe you.

I'm more of an old imperial measurement type (AWG/SWG etc) but believe
that 1.5mm is *way* too thin to make an extension lead out of (unless you
just want to make up something specifically for a lightly loaded lighting
application.

In an ideal world you'd think so, wouldn't you? But in practice I had a
lot of searching to do to find someone who'd sell me a made up extension
lead on a reel 25m long and 2.5mm^2 flex.

Why would you need to get someone to make up such a lead for you?

Nearly all the popular mass-market ones are 1.5mm flex. Still rated
at 13A unwound (as the electricians will tell you) but a significant
power loss for 2.2kW power tools.

2.2kW power tools are hardly domestic. For pro use you should be using
suitable cable and connectors. Think building site.

Think cheap chinese concrete breakers. And big angle grinders.

--

Roger Hayter

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
Roger Hayter wrote:
Cursitor Doom wrote:

On Sat, 15 Sep 2018 20:42:02 +1000, FMurtz wrote:

Tim Streater wrote:

Does the 1.5mm refer to the overall diameter of the flex, the diameter
of each core including insulation, or the diameter of each core
excluding insulation.

Every one knows what he is referring to except maybe you.

I'm more of an old imperial measurement type (AWG/SWG etc) but believe
that 1.5mm is *way* too thin to make an extension lead out of (unless you
just want to make up something specifically for a lightly loaded lighting
application.

In an ideal world you'd think so, wouldn't you? But in practice I had a
lot of searching to do to find someone who'd sell me a made up extension
lead on a reel 25m long and 2.5mm^2 flex.

Why would you need to get someone to make up such a lead for you?

Because it is nice to have it on a reel. And it probably costs not
much more than buying the flex and sockets retail. And it's probably
got a thermal cut out which would be difficult to sort for a home made
reel.





Nearly all the popular mass-market ones are 1.5mm flex. Still rated
at 13A unwound (as the electricians will tell you) but a significant
power loss for 2.2kW power tools.

2.2kW power tools are hardly domestic. For pro use you should be using
suitable cable and connectors. Think building site.


--

Roger Hayter

On 15/09/2018 14:06, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
F news@nowhere wrote:
I'm more of an old imperial measurement type (AWG/SWG etc) but believe
that 1.5mm is *way* too thin to make an extension lead out of (unless
you just want to make up something specifically for a lightly loaded
lighting application.

Until someone borrows it for a not-so-lightly-loaded application.

Perhaps you didn't know, but UK plugs have a fuse in them?

I do, but am grateful for the reminder. However, not everyone installs
the appropriate fuse.

--
F

On 15/09/2018 13:54, Roger Hayter wrote:
Cursitor Doom wrote:

On Sat, 15 Sep 2018 20:42:02 +1000, FMurtz wrote:

Tim Streater wrote:

Does the 1.5mm refer to the overall diameter of the flex, the diameter
of each core including insulation, or the diameter of each core
excluding insulation.

Every one knows what he is referring to except maybe you.

I'm more of an old imperial measurement type (AWG/SWG etc) but believe
that 1.5mm is *way* too thin to make an extension lead out of (unless you
just want to make up something specifically for a lightly loaded lighting
application.

In an ideal world you'd think so, wouldn't you? But in practice I had a
lot of searching to do to find someone who'd sell me a made up extension
lead on a reel 25m long and 2.5mm^2 flex. Nearly all the popular
mass-market ones are 1.5mm flex. Still rated at 13A unwound (as the
electricians will tell you) but a significant power loss for 2.2kW power
tools.


I can see no more than a 3.5% voltage drop on a 25mm length of 1.5mm 3
core flex happening when using a 2.2kW load.

That will not be a problem for most power tools.

Was this for some tool with an inrush current?

Or to put it another way, my voltage is a nice 252V (and a PSC of 12kA
and a Ze of 0.01 ohms) but I often work on places with much lower
voltages and higher Ze readings.

Now if you have a Ze closing in on .3 ohms [1] I can see the extension
lead making a bigger difference especially if plugged in at the mid
point of a large ring or the end of a radial.

[1] I have not seen much higher that that for a long time even on a TNS
supply.

I have seen it a lot on building site with 110V transformers and long
leads. The performance of chop/mitre saws seems to suffer the most.

--
Adam

On 15/09/2018 14:11, Fredxx wrote:
On 15/09/2018 11:46, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Tim Streater wrote:
3. Have some sort of brain seizure and fit the plug top to a roll of
1.5mm white 3 core flex that he found in the van AND fit the plug top so
that his wiring could not be inspected.

Does the 1.5mm refer to the overall diameter of the flex, the diameter
of each core including insulation, or the diameter of each core
excluding insulation.

You contribute to this group and think mains flex with an overall diameter
of 1.5mm exists? The sort of thing an electrician would carry in his van?
And really don't understand what 1.5mm refers to with cable?

No wonder you are a Tory. Just the sort of thing I'd expect from Boris.

The sort of response I would expect from a know it all, labour
supporting remainer to a simple question.

That and/or he's having a bad day.

--
F

On 15/09/2018 09:06, ARW wrote:
OK, so he is 16 and only been with us 8 weeks.
His task was to put a 13A plug onto my blue extension lead. He was given
both the plug and the extension lead and told not to put the plug top on
until I has inspected his wiring.

Did he

1. Fit the plug to the extension lead correctly and leave the plug top
off for inspection

2. Fit the plug to the extension incorrectly and leave the plug top off
for inspect.

3. Have some sort of brain seizure and fit the plug top to a roll of
1.5mm white 3 core flex that he found in the van AND fit the plug top so
that his wiring could not be inspected.

Answers on a post card to PO BOX W4NK3R.




4. He used a stanley knife to cut the outer sheath on the cable,
cutting himself in the process as well as nicking right through
the LNE cables too (but still fitted it anyway).

On 15/09/2018 13:01, David wrote:
On Sat, 15 Sep 2018 12:03:14 +0100, Max Demian wrote:

On 15/09/2018 10:47, ARW wrote:
On 15/09/2018 10:19, DerbyBorn wrote:
Was he given suitable instruction on this obscure task - or did you
arrogantly assume that because you could do it at his age then he
should?
Are you the type who would laugh at a teenager trying to use a dial
phone or a Walkman?


I would not consider fitting a plug to be an obscure task for an
electrical apprentice, even a first year one. What is obscure is that
he did not fit the plug to the extension lead that he was given but
went to the van and fitted the plug to a roll of flex.

And yes I took the **** out of him at the wholesalers when he got stuck
trying to get out of the front door with the sign saying pull on it.

You should always try pushing a "Pull" door in case the door goes both
ways and they just want to tell you what to do.

I always have trouble with the doors marked "Lift"

Cheers



Dave R



Or Aufzug in German (literally Up Train).

On 15/09/2018 15:54, F wrote:
On 15/09/2018 14:11, Fredxx wrote:
On 15/09/2018 11:46, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Â*Â*Â* Tim Streater wrote:
3. Have some sort of brain seizure and fit the plug top to a roll of
1.5mm white 3 core flex that he found in the van AND fit the plug
top so
that his wiring could not be inspected.

Does the 1.5mm refer to the overall diameter of the flex, the diameter
of each core including insulation, or the diameter of each core
excluding insulation.

You contribute to this group and think mains flex with an overall
diameter
of 1.5mm exists? The sort of thing an electrician would carry in his
van?
And really don't understand what 1.5mm refers to with cable?

No wonder you are a Tory. Just the sort of thing I'd expect from Boris.

The sort of response I would expect from a know it all, labour
supporting remainer to a simple question.

That and/or he's having a bad day.

I'm surprised he didn't pick me up on my 'deliberate' :-( mistake!

ARW wrote:

On 15/09/2018 13:54, Roger Hayter wrote:
Cursitor Doom wrote:

On Sat, 15 Sep 2018 20:42:02 +1000, FMurtz wrote:

Tim Streater wrote:

Does the 1.5mm refer to the overall diameter of the flex, the diameter
of each core including insulation, or the diameter of each core
excluding insulation.

Every one knows what he is referring to except maybe you.

I'm more of an old imperial measurement type (AWG/SWG etc) but believe
that 1.5mm is *way* too thin to make an extension lead out of (unless you
just want to make up something specifically for a lightly loaded lighting
application.

In an ideal world you'd think so, wouldn't you? But in practice I had a
lot of searching to do to find someone who'd sell me a made up extension
lead on a reel 25m long and 2.5mm^2 flex. Nearly all the popular
mass-market ones are 1.5mm flex. Still rated at 13A unwound (as the
electricians will tell you) but a significant power loss for 2.2kW power
tools.


I can see no more than a 3.5% voltage drop on a 25mm length of 1.5mm 3
core flex happening when using a 2.2kW load.

That will not be a problem for most power tools.

Was this for some tool with an inrush current?

Mainly a concrete breaker, which ran much slower with a long 1.5mm lead.
A motor is probably a non-linear load, and presumably a variable current
as the cam turned operating the hammer. Incidentally we have a pole
transformer supply, which is probably less good than yours, though I
have never tried to measure it.





Or to put it another way, my voltage is a nice 252V (and a PSC of 12kA
and a Ze of 0.01 ohms) but I often work on places with much lower
voltages and higher Ze readings.

Now if you have a Ze closing in on .3 ohms [1] I can see the extension
lead making a bigger difference especially if plugged in at the mid
point of a large ring or the end of a radial.

[1] I have not seen much higher that that for a long time even on a TNS
supply.

I have seen it a lot on building site with 110V transformers and long
leads. The performance of chop/mitre saws seems to suffer the most.


--

Roger Hayter

In article ,
Fredxx wrote:
On 15/09/2018 11:46, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Tim Streater wrote:
3. Have some sort of brain seizure and fit the plug top to a roll of
1.5mm white 3 core flex that he found in the van AND fit the plug top so
that his wiring could not be inspected.

Does the 1.5mm refer to the overall diameter of the flex, the diameter
of each core including insulation, or the diameter of each core
excluding insulation.

You contribute to this group and think mains flex with an overall diameter
of 1.5mm exists? The sort of thing an electrician would carry in his van?
And really don't understand what 1.5mm refers to with cable?

No wonder you are a Tory. Just the sort of thing I'd expect from Boris.

The sort of response I would expect from a know it all, labour
supporting remainer to a simple question.

You could simply have said, "the diameter of each core excluding
insulation" but choose to score points instead. Why aren't I surprised.

Not much of an explanation from you. And conductor size isn't measured by
diameter. 1.5mm refers to the area.

But then partial explanations are the sign of a true Brexiteer. Let others
guess the truth.

--
*It is wrong to ever split an infinitive *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
John Rumm wrote:
On 15/09/2018 11:46, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Tim Streater wrote:
3. Have some sort of brain seizure and fit the plug top to a roll of
1.5mm white 3 core flex that he found in the van AND fit the plug
top so that his wiring could not be inspected.

Does the 1.5mm refer to the overall diameter of the flex, the
diameter of each core including insulation, or the diameter of each
core excluding insulation.

You contribute to this group and think mains flex with an overall
diameter of 1.5mm exists? The sort of thing an electrician would carry
in his van? And really don't understand what 1.5mm refers to with
cable?

No wonder you are a Tory. Just the sort of thing I'd expect from Boris.

Why do we need that last paragraph? Does it add anything of value to the
discussion? Ultimately it tells us more about your prejudices than it
does about Tories or Boris - and neither have anything to do with cable
specs.

Good. The whole idea is to upset the likes of Doom. Since it is the only
language he seems to understand.

For a group made up from a typically older demographic, it seems to be
getting more childish all the time.

I think you're several years too late. So when in Rome...

Get a grip people.

--
*On the other hand, you have different fingers*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
ARW wrote:
On 15/09/2018 14:06, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
F news@nowhere wrote:
I'm more of an old imperial measurement type (AWG/SWG etc) but believe
that 1.5mm is *way* too thin to make an extension lead out of (unless
you just want to make up something specifically for a lightly loaded
lighting application.

Until someone borrows it for a not-so-lightly-loaded application.

Perhaps you didn't know, but UK plugs have a fuse in them?


Actually my other 230V extension lead[1] has a thermal cut out.

Instead of a fuse in the plug, or in addition?

A 13A fuse when used with a with a wound up lead will allow the flex to
melt well before the fuse blows if you stick 20A to 26A through it for
30 minutes. Imaging two wallpaper stripper plugged into the same wound
up extension.

Don't all such reels have a warning about extending them fully for a high
load? But even then I'd expect the plug fuse to blow if you're trying to
get 26 amps through it. ;-)

[1] TBH it belongs to Geoff from CET but as I have been using it for the
last 8 years...

--
*DON'T SWEAT THE PETTY THINGS AND DON'T PET THE SWEATY THINGS.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 15/09/2018 16:33, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , Andy Burns
wrote:

Fredxx wrote:

You could simply have said, "the diameter of each core excluding
insulation"

Except it's not a diameter of 1.5mm, it's a cross-section of 1.5mm^2

So it's a core diameter of just under 1.4mm.



And there's me thinking that God has sent me first year apprentices as a
punishment when I could have just asked you to torment me instead.

--
Adam

In article ,
charles wrote:
In article ,
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
F news@nowhere wrote:
I'm more of an old imperial measurement type (AWG/SWG etc) but
believe that 1.5mm is *way* too thin to make an extension lead out
of (unless you just want to make up something specifically for a
lightly loaded lighting application.

Until someone borrows it for a not-so-lightly-loaded application.

Perhaps you didn't know, but UK plugs have a fuse in them?

but most people put 13A fuses in them.

Which is perfectly OK for a 1.5mm squared domestic extension lead. If you
need a super long one for high load you'd be advised to increase the cable
size to keep voltage drop to a minimum.

--
*'ome is where you 'ang your @ *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 15/09/2018 13:45, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
GB wrote:
I remember things were ominously quiet one morning when the kids were
small. There was a bang, and the whole house went quiet. It turned out
that the two older boys had decided to wire up a plug. Not having any
idea at all how to do it, they stripped 3 or 4 inches of insulation off
each of the wires and wrapped them round all three plug terminals.
Fortunately, they jammed the top on without leaving any strands of wire
outside the plug, so no children were harmed in this experiment.

Possibly, this was my fault for not showing them exactly how to do it,
but they were only 4 or 5 at the time.

I remember trying to make a magnet aged about 5. No need to guess the
result.


It aimed East and West?

--
Adam

In article ,
F news@nowhere wrote:
On 15/09/2018 14:06, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
F news@nowhere wrote:
I'm more of an old imperial measurement type (AWG/SWG etc) but believe
that 1.5mm is *way* too thin to make an extension lead out of (unless
you just want to make up something specifically for a lightly loaded
lighting application.

Until someone borrows it for a not-so-lightly-loaded application.

Perhaps you didn't know, but UK plugs have a fuse in them?

I do, but am grateful for the reminder. However, not everyone installs
the appropriate fuse.

But a 13 amp fuse is correct for 1.5mm cable...

--
*ATHEISM IS A NON-PROPHET ORGANIZATION.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Saturday, 15 September 2018 16:58:00 UTC+1, ARW wrote:
On 15/09/2018 13:45, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
GB wrote:
I remember things were ominously quiet one morning when the kids were
small. There was a bang, and the whole house went quiet. It turned out
that the two older boys had decided to wire up a plug. Not having any
idea at all how to do it, they stripped 3 or 4 inches of insulation off
each of the wires and wrapped them round all three plug terminals.
Fortunately, they jammed the top on without leaving any strands of wire
outside the plug, so no children were harmed in this experiment.

Possibly, this was my fault for not showing them exactly how to do it,
but they were only 4 or 5 at the time.

I remember trying to make a magnet aged about 5. No need to guess the
result.


It aimed East and West?

I'm guessing either the wire was bare, or it was plugged into the mains.


NT

On 15/09/2018 14:39, John Rumm wrote:
On 15/09/2018 11:46, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Â*Â*Â* Tim Streater wrote:
3. Have some sort of brain seizure and fit the plug top to a roll of
1.5mm white 3 core flex that he found in the van AND fit the plug
top so
that his wiring could not be inspected.

Does the 1.5mm refer to the overall diameter of the flex, the diameter
of each core including insulation, or the diameter of each core
excluding insulation.

You contribute to this group and think mains flex with an overall
diameter
of 1.5mm exists? The sort of thing an electrician would carry in his van?
And really don't understand what 1.5mm refers to with cable?

No wonder you are a Tory. Just the sort of thing I'd expect from Boris.

Why do we need that last paragraph? Does it add anything of value to the
discussion? Ultimately it tells us more about your prejudices than it
does about Tories or Boris - and neither have anything to do with cable
specs.

For a group made up from a typically older demographic, it seems to be
getting more childish all the time.

Get a grip people.



It was a non political/Brexit post. The apprentice was not asked to wire
up a European plug.



--
Adam

On 15/09/2018 16:46, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Fredxx wrote:
On 15/09/2018 11:46, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Tim Streater wrote:
3. Have some sort of brain seizure and fit the plug top to a roll of
1.5mm white 3 core flex that he found in the van AND fit the plug top so
that his wiring could not be inspected.

Does the 1.5mm refer to the overall diameter of the flex, the diameter
of each core including insulation, or the diameter of each core
excluding insulation.

You contribute to this group and think mains flex with an overall diameter
of 1.5mm exists? The sort of thing an electrician would carry in his van?
And really don't understand what 1.5mm refers to with cable?

No wonder you are a Tory. Just the sort of thing I'd expect from Boris.

The sort of response I would expect from a know it all, labour
supporting remainer to a simple question.

You could simply have said, "the diameter of each core excluding
insulation" but choose to score points instead. Why aren't I surprised.

Not much of an explanation from you. And conductor size isn't measured by
diameter. 1.5mm refers to the area.

That was already established and accepted.

But then partial explanations are the sign of a true Brexiteer. Let others
guess the truth.

A true Brexiter will listen to the truth and amend accordingly.

A labour supporter remainer will resort to ridicule rather than answer a
simple question.[1]


[1] Assuming they knew the answer of course.

On 15/09/2018 16:53, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
ARW wrote:
On 15/09/2018 14:06, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
F news@nowhere wrote:
I'm more of an old imperial measurement type (AWG/SWG etc) but believe
that 1.5mm is *way* too thin to make an extension lead out of (unless
you just want to make up something specifically for a lightly loaded
lighting application.

Until someone borrows it for a not-so-lightly-loaded application.

Perhaps you didn't know, but UK plugs have a fuse in them?


Actually my other 230V extension lead[1] has a thermal cut out.

Instead of a fuse in the plug, or in addition?

A 13A fuse when used with a with a wound up lead will allow the flex to
melt well before the fuse blows if you stick 20A to 26A through it for
30 minutes. Imaging two wallpaper stripper plugged into the same wound
up extension.

Don't all such reels have a warning about extending them fully for a high
load? But even then I'd expect the plug fuse to blow if you're trying to
get 26 amps through it. ;-)


But BS1362 13A fuses do not work like that. They will pass 20A most of
the time without ever tripping and 26 A for just long enough to melt the
flex on an extension reel.

As for warnings. Who reads them?


--
Adam

In article , Dave Plowman (News)
wrote:
In article , F
news@nowhere wrote:
On 15/09/2018 14:06, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article , F
news@nowhere wrote:
I'm more of an old imperial measurement type (AWG/SWG etc) but
believe that 1.5mm is *way* too thin to make an extension lead out
of (unless you just want to make up something specifically for a
lightly loaded lighting application.

Until someone borrows it for a not-so-lightly-loaded application.

Perhaps you didn't know, but UK plugs have a fuse in them?

I do, but am grateful for the reminder. However, not everyone installs
the appropriate fuse.

But a 13 amp fuse is correct for 1.5mm cable...

not if it's still coiled in a reel, The current carrying capacity is
reduiced by 75%. ie to 12A, so: use a 10A fuse in case.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

On 15/09/2018 14:11, Fredxx wrote:
On 15/09/2018 11:46, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

No wonder you are a Tory. Just the sort of thing I'd expect from Boris.

The sort of response I would expect from a know it all, labour
supporting remainer to a simple question.

Does the phrase "hoist by one's own petard" mean anything to you?

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 15/09/2018 15:12, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Sat, 15 Sep 2018 14:44:04 +0100, charles wrote:

In article ,
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
F news@nowhere wrote:
I'm more of an old imperial measurement type (AWG/SWG etc) but
believe that 1.5mm is *way* too thin to make an extension lead out
of (unless you just want to make up something specifically for a
lightly loaded lighting application.

Until someone borrows it for a not-so-lightly-loaded application.

Perhaps you didn't know, but UK plugs have a fuse in them?

but most people put 13A fuses in them.

I bought an extension reel from BnQ a while back. Eventually discovered
it was fitted with a 10A fuse. Never knew such a thing existed! Still,
probably my fault for simply assuming something from them would be good
for 13A!

That seemed to be a response after testing lots of cheap chinesium
extension leads and finding that under high loads they would fail
catastrophically. The 10A fuse will still likely carry 13A indefinitely,
but will limit the scope for overloading as far as a 13A fuse would permit.



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 15/09/2018 17:43, charles wrote:
In article , Dave Plowman (News)
wrote:
In article , F
news@nowhere wrote:
On 15/09/2018 14:06, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article , F
news@nowhere wrote:
I'm more of an old imperial measurement type (AWG/SWG etc) but
believe that 1.5mm is *way* too thin to make an extension lead out
of (unless you just want to make up something specifically for a
lightly loaded lighting application.

Until someone borrows it for a not-so-lightly-loaded application.

Perhaps you didn't know, but UK plugs have a fuse in them?

I do, but am grateful for the reminder. However, not everyone installs
the appropriate fuse.

But a 13 amp fuse is correct for 1.5mm cable...

not if it's still coiled in a reel, The current carrying capacity is
reduiced by 75%. ie to 12A, so: use a 10A fuse in case.

For a fully coiled lead you could probably melt it even with a 5A fuse.
They normally state a max load not exceeding 1kW, and that is only a bit
over 4A.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 15/09/2018 15:25, Roger Hayter wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
Roger Hayter wrote:
Cursitor Doom wrote:

On Sat, 15 Sep 2018 20:42:02 +1000, FMurtz wrote:

Tim Streater wrote:

Does the 1.5mm refer to the overall diameter of the flex, the diameter
of each core including insulation, or the diameter of each core
excluding insulation.

Every one knows what he is referring to except maybe you.

I'm more of an old imperial measurement type (AWG/SWG etc) but believe
that 1.5mm is *way* too thin to make an extension lead out of (unless you
just want to make up something specifically for a lightly loaded lighting
application.

In an ideal world you'd think so, wouldn't you? But in practice I had a
lot of searching to do to find someone who'd sell me a made up extension
lead on a reel 25m long and 2.5mm^2 flex.

Why would you need to get someone to make up such a lead for you?

Nearly all the popular mass-market ones are 1.5mm flex. Still rated
at 13A unwound (as the electricians will tell you) but a significant
power loss for 2.2kW power tools.

2.2kW power tools are hardly domestic. For pro use you should be using
suitable cable and connectors. Think building site.

Think cheap chinese concrete breakers. And big angle grinders.

Garden shredders, and the bigger mowers...
Hot air paint stripper
Pressure washer



--
Cheers,

John.

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\================================================= ================/

On 15/09/2018 17:43, charles wrote:
In article , Dave Plowman (News)
wrote:
In article , F
news@nowhere wrote:
On 15/09/2018 14:06, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article , F
news@nowhere wrote:
I'm more of an old imperial measurement type (AWG/SWG etc) but
believe that 1.5mm is *way* too thin to make an extension lead out
of (unless you just want to make up something specifically for a
lightly loaded lighting application.

Until someone borrows it for a not-so-lightly-loaded application.

Perhaps you didn't know, but UK plugs have a fuse in them?

I do, but am grateful for the reminder. However, not everyone installs
the appropriate fuse.

But a 13 amp fuse is correct for 1.5mm cable...

not if it's still coiled in a reel, The current carrying capacity is
reduiced by 75%. ie to 12A, so: use a 10A fuse in case.

Do you mean reduced by 75%, so the current capability is nearer 4A?

Short term use even at 13A would be fine, however a 10m reel will
dissipate 24W for a 10A load. I can assure you a well insulated reel
will eventually get above 70C internally, the limit for PVC.

On 15/09/2018 17:49, John Rumm wrote:
On 15/09/2018 14:11, Fredxx wrote:
On 15/09/2018 11:46, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

No wonder you are a Tory. Just the sort of thing I'd expect from Boris.

The sort of response I would expect from a know it all, labour
supporting remainer to a simple question.

Does the phrase "hoist by one's own petard" mean anything to you?

Yes, I read Shakespeare too.

Thanks for not quoting the 'deliberate' mistake. :-)

On 15/09/2018 17:08, ARW wrote:
On 15/09/2018 14:39, John Rumm wrote:
On 15/09/2018 11:46, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Â*Â*Â* Tim Streater wrote:
3. Have some sort of brain seizure and fit the plug top to a roll of
1.5mm white 3 core flex that he found in the van AND fit the plug
top so
that his wiring could not be inspected.

Does the 1.5mm refer to the overall diameter of the flex, the diameter
of each core including insulation, or the diameter of each core
excluding insulation.

You contribute to this group and think mains flex with an overall
diameter
of 1.5mm exists? The sort of thing an electrician would carry in his
van?
And really don't understand what 1.5mm refers to with cable?

No wonder you are a Tory. Just the sort of thing I'd expect from Boris.

Why do we need that last paragraph? Does it add anything of value to
the discussion? Ultimately it tells us more about your prejudices than
it does about Tories or Boris - and neither have anything to do with
cable specs.

For a group made up from a typically older demographic, it seems to be
getting more childish all the time.

Get a grip people.

It was a non political/Brexit post. The apprentice was not asked to wire
up a European plug.

But there a EU ISO standard for it.

On 15/09/2018 14:34, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Sat, 15 Sep 2018 13:54:12 +0100, Roger Hayter wrote:

In an ideal world you'd think so, wouldn't you? But in practice I had a
lot of searching to do to find someone who'd sell me a made up extension
lead on a reel 25m long and 2.5mm^2 flex. Nearly all the popular
mass-market ones are 1.5mm flex. Still rated at 13A unwound (as the
electricians will tell you) but a significant power loss for 2.2kW power
tools.

Good Lord!! For once I'm lost for words. :-/

So 25m[1] of 1.25mm^2 flex, will have about 24.20 mOhms/m round trip
(i.e. L+N).

So that's about 0.61 ohms for the whole lead. A 2.2kW tool suggests
about 9.6A of load, so that would give a dissipation of about 56W... not
massive, but enough to get it reasonably hot. At a full 13A load that
gets to 100W.

[1] I have some 50m extension leads as well, in an enclosed spool, so
200W of dissipation on that might be more of a problem if used coiled.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

In article ,
Fredxx wrote:
On 15/09/2018 17:43, charles wrote:
In article , Dave Plowman (News)
wrote:
In article , F
news@nowhere wrote:
On 15/09/2018 14:06, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article , F
news@nowhere wrote:
I'm more of an old imperial measurement type (AWG/SWG etc) but
believe that 1.5mm is *way* too thin to make an extension lead out
of (unless you just want to make up something specifically for a
lightly loaded lighting application.

Until someone borrows it for a not-so-lightly-loaded application.

Perhaps you didn't know, but UK plugs have a fuse in them?

I do, but am grateful for the reminder. However, not everyone installs
the appropriate fuse.

But a 13 amp fuse is correct for 1.5mm cable...

not if it's still coiled in a reel, The current carrying capacity is
reduiced by 75%. ie to 12A, so: use a 10A fuse in case.

Do you mean reduced by 75%, so the current capability is nearer 4A?

no, to 75%

Short term use even at 13A would be fine, however a 10m reel will
dissipate 24W for a 10A load. I can assure you a well insulated reel
will eventually get above 70C internally, the limit for PVC.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

On Sat, 15 Sep 2018 17:42:20 +0100, Pamela wrote:

On 09:06 15 Sep 2018, ARW wrote:

OK, so he is 16 and only been with us 8 weeks.
His task was to put a 13A plug onto my blue extension lead. He was
given both the plug and the extension lead and told not to put the
plug top on until I has inspected his wiring.

Did he

1. Fit the plug to the extension lead correctly and leave the plug
top off for inspection

2. Fit the plug to the extension incorrectly and leave the plug
top off for inspect.

3. Have some sort of brain seizure and fit the plug top to a roll
of 1.5mm white 3 core flex that he found in the van AND fit the
plug top so that his wiring could not be inspected.

Answers on a post card to PO BOX W4NK3R.

That is a significant misunderstanding. Without joking, do your
apprentices have a learning disability?

Doesn't say much about the training does it? I expect the poor lad
was nervous of the reaction to any mistake so didn't absorb the
instructions properly. Treat them like monkeys and monkeys are what
you get.

Tim Streater wrote:

In article , Andy Burns
wrote:

Fredxx wrote:

You could simply have said, "the diameter of each core excluding
insulation"

Except it's not a diameter of 1.5mm, it's a cross-section of 1.5mm^2

So it's a core diameter of just under 1.4mm.

So solve 2r = (pi)r^2 and you will know what wire has a diameter
numerically equal to its CSA. I can't be bothered. But I think trial
and error iteration to two decimal places would be quicker than
remembering the formula for quadratic equations.



--

Roger Hayter

On 15/09/2018 19:03, Roger Hayter wrote:
Tim Streater wrote:

In article , Andy Burns
wrote:

Fredxx wrote:

You could simply have said, "the diameter of each core excluding
insulation"

Except it's not a diameter of 1.5mm, it's a cross-section of 1.5mm^2

So it's a core diameter of just under 1.4mm.

So solve 2r = (pi)r^2 and you will know what wire has a diameter
numerically equal to its CSA. I can't be bothered. But I think trial
and error iteration to two decimal places would be quicker than
remembering the formula for quadratic equations.

It has a trivial solution:

r = 2/pi

In fact I would say assembling the equation was the more difficult part.

So 1.27mm dia has a CSA of 1.27mm^2

Or for oldies, very close to 50''' (thou)

Roger Hayter wrote:

Tim Streater wrote:

In article , Andy Burns
wrote:

Fredxx wrote:

You could simply have said, "the diameter of each core excluding
insulation"

Except it's not a diameter of 1.5mm, it's a cross-section of 1.5mm^2

So it's a core diameter of just under 1.4mm.

So solve 2r = (pi)r^2 and you will know what wire has a diameter
numerically equal to its CSA. I can't be bothered. But I think trial
and error iteration to two decimal places would be quicker than
remembering the formula for quadratic equations.

or you could just say it is 4/pi = 1.27mm

--

Roger Hayter

On 15/09/2018 18:52, mechanic wrote:
On Sat, 15 Sep 2018 17:42:20 +0100, Pamela wrote:

On 09:06 15 Sep 2018, ARW wrote:

OK, so he is 16 and only been with us 8 weeks.
His task was to put a 13A plug onto my blue extension lead. He was
given both the plug and the extension lead and told not to put the
plug top on until I has inspected his wiring.

Did he

1. Fit the plug to the extension lead correctly and leave the plug
top off for inspection

2. Fit the plug to the extension incorrectly and leave the plug
top off for inspect.

3. Have some sort of brain seizure and fit the plug top to a roll
of 1.5mm white 3 core flex that he found in the van AND fit the
plug top so that his wiring could not be inspected.

Answers on a post card to PO BOX W4NK3R.

That is a significant misunderstanding. Without joking, do your
apprentices have a learning disability?

Doesn't say much about the training does it? I expect the poor lad
was nervous of the reaction to any mistake so didn't absorb the
instructions properly. Treat them like monkeys and monkeys are what
you get.


And your reasoning for that?

All I did was give a thick **** an extension reel, a 13A plug and a
simple task.



--
Adam

On 15/09/2018 18:08, Fredxx wrote:
On 15/09/2018 17:08, ARW wrote:
On 15/09/2018 14:39, John Rumm wrote:
On 15/09/2018 11:46, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Â*Â*Â* Tim Streater wrote:
3. Have some sort of brain seizure and fit the plug top to a roll of
1.5mm white 3 core flex that he found in the van AND fit the plug
top so
that his wiring could not be inspected.

Does the 1.5mm refer to the overall diameter of the flex, the diameter
of each core including insulation, or the diameter of each core
excluding insulation.

You contribute to this group and think mains flex with an overall
diameter
of 1.5mm exists? The sort of thing an electrician would carry in his
van?
And really don't understand what 1.5mm refers to with cable?

No wonder you are a Tory. Just the sort of thing I'd expect from Boris.

Why do we need that last paragraph? Does it add anything of value to
the discussion? Ultimately it tells us more about your prejudices
than it does about Tories or Boris - and neither have anything to do
with cable specs.

For a group made up from a typically older demographic, it seems to
be getting more childish all the time.

Get a grip people.

It was a non political/Brexit post. The apprentice was not asked to
wire up a European plug.

But there a EU ISO standard for it.

For the plug or how to wire it?

--
Adam

"Bill Wright" wrote in message
news
On 15/09/2018 10:47, ARW wrote:

I would not consider fitting a plug to be an obscure task for an
electrical apprentice, even a first year one. What is obscure is that he
did not fit the plug to the extension lead that he was given but went to
the van and fitted the plug to a roll of flex.

Your instructions must have been unclear to him. This isn't necessarily
your fault. However, a good method is to make the learner speak the
instructions back to you. You check for real understanding. So that he
doesn't think you're babying him say, "OK, now just in case that wasn't
clear, tell me exactly what you have to do, in your own words."

As I'm sure you know teenage often have surprising gaps in their knowledge
and in the very way they their perception works. You are extremely lucky
because you have the rare pleasure of guiding them, helping them, and
generally reconstructing their minds so they become useful human beings.
Enjoy!

It will be hilarious to hear what they have to say about
Adam when they are old fogeys themselves. Corse none
of us will be around to hear that unless they double the
life expectancy and we dont end up as vegys by then.

And yes I took the **** out of him at the wholesalers when he got stuck
trying to get out of the front door with the sign saying pull on it.

Fair enough. Did he cry?

On 15/09/2018 11:48, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
ARW wrote:
On 15/09/2018 11:05, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Sat, 15 Sep 2018 09:06:58 +0100, ARW wrote:

3. Have some sort of brain seizure and fit the plug top to a roll of
1.5mm white 3 core flex that he found in the van AND fit the plug top so
that his wiring could not be inspected.

Answers on a post card to PO BOX W4NK3R.

Somehow I just *know* it's going to be No.3, however inexplicably
improbable that might be. :-)



For what it is worth he actually wired the plug up correctly (I took the
top off and checked).

It's a pity that he had not fitted it to the extension lead that he was
given.

Did you ask him why? Could he answer through the tears?


Well the little ******* has an answer for everything.

In this case his reply was "I don't know"

--
Adam