On 01/05/2018 17:51, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 01/05/18 17:46, David wrote:
On Tue, 01 May 2018 12:23:14 +0100, Andrew wrote:

On 01/05/2018 12:22, Andrew wrote:
What an utterly dumb stupid remark to make !!.

Anyone aged 100+, was a child when antibiotics did *not* exist.

Nor did their mothers use 'anti-microbial' sprays or aerosols full of
cleaning materials.

They were exposed to dust and pathogens from the outset and the ones
that survived the childhood illnesses and infections and toxins from
coal smoke have NATURAL immunity.

The worst toxins they have been exposed to are LEAD in petrol and
paint, and ASBESTOS, FAGS, and workplace chemicals like DYES.

It is people under 30 who are dying from asthma, and that is because
GPs and 999 Call Handlers don't realise how dangerous it is.

I wonder if you will even BOTHER to mention the 11 *million*
DIESEL cars on the road, the *WORST* culprits.

Andrew Dunkerton


Oops, this was intended for Jeremy Vine. Ignore it.

Load of ******** anyway.

You appear to suggest that nobody born before 1918 had asthma.
As Wonkypedia says "citaiton needed".

Given that my late mother was born before 1918 and suffered from chronic
asthma, so much so that in the 1950s when I was young she spent a lot of
time in hospital, this assumption is not entirely accurate.

Farmers lung was a killer back then for thsoe in the country.

TB got you in towns

Asthamtics pretty much died from TB or bronchitis or pneumonia before
they reached puberty.

Some years ago,, a professor enlisted my help to provide equipment for a
trial he wanted to carry out to test a theory about asthma. It didn't go
ahead, because of problems funding a trial that would need to follow the
development of 1,500 neonates into adulthood.

His theory was that early exposure to diseases like TB provided
protection from asthma. Apparently, unlike many diseases that simply
produce specific antibodies, TB induces changes in the immune system at
a cellular level. That, in turn, provides life-long improvements in
resistance to disease and, he hoped, asthma. His plan was to give
neonates the BCG vaccination, to create the same effect.

Asthma is certainly something that I don't recall anybody I knew as a
child having, which I doubt would be the case today.

--
--

Colin Bignell

On 02/05/18 09:28, Nightjar wrote:
Asthma is certainly something that I don't recall anybody I knew as a
child having, which I doubt would be the case today.

At least 4 people in my class at primary school had it and 3-4 in my
secondary school, as did I.

We didnt advertise the fact tho.


--
€œit should be clear by now to everyone that activist environmentalism
(or environmental activism) is becoming a general ideology about humans,
about their freedom, about the relationship between the individual and
the state, and about the manipulation of people under the guise of a
'noble' idea. It is not an honest pursuit of 'sustainable development,'
a matter of elementary environmental protection, or a search for
rational mechanisms designed to achieve a healthy environment. Yet
things do occur that make you shake your head and remind yourself that
you live neither in Joseph Stalins Communist era, nor in the Orwellian
utopia of 1984.€�

Vaclav Klaus

In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 02/05/18 09:28, Nightjar wrote:
Asthma is certainly something that I don't recall anybody I knew as a
child having, which I doubt would be the case today.

At least 4 people in my class at primary school had it and 3-4 in my
secondary school, as did I.

We didnt advertise the fact tho.

I had a cousin with asthma but that was a rarity in the 1940s.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

On 02/05/2018 09:54, charles wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 02/05/18 09:28, Nightjar wrote:
Asthma is certainly something that I don't recall anybody I knew as a
child having, which I doubt would be the case today.

At least 4 people in my class at primary school had it and 3-4 in my
secondary school, as did I.

We didnt advertise the fact tho.

I had a cousin with asthma but that was a rarity in the 1940s.

There is little doubt that it has been an increasing problem over the
years. A BMJ study shows that around 10% of children in the UK presented
with symptoms of wheezing in the 1960s. By 2000, that had risen to
around 20-30%.

--
--

Colin Bignell

On 02/05/2018 09:44, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 02/05/18 09:28, Nightjar wrote:
Asthma is certainly something that I don't recall anybody I knew as a
child having, which I doubt would be the case today.

At least 4 people in my class at primary school had it and 3-4 in my
secondary school, as did I.

We didnt advertise the fact tho.



They tend to grow out of it. The point is, how many of the
14,500 centenarians had serious illnesses or accidents during
their lives before the nanny state NHS ?. These are the ones
who inherited a good set of genes and a fair dose of lady luck.

On 02/05/2018 09:28, Nightjar wrote:
On 01/05/2018 17:51, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 01/05/18 17:46, David wrote:
On Tue, 01 May 2018 12:23:14 +0100, Andrew wrote:

On 01/05/2018 12:22, Andrew wrote:
What an utterly dumb stupid remark to make !!.

Anyone aged 100+, was a child when antibiotics did *not* exist.

Nor did their mothers use 'anti-microbial' sprays or aerosols full of
cleaning materials.

They were exposed to dust and pathogens from the outset and the ones
that survived the childhood illnesses and infections and toxins from
coal smoke have NATURAL immunity.

The worst toxins they have been exposed to are LEAD in petrol and
paint, and ASBESTOS, FAGS, and workplace chemicals like DYES.

It is people under 30 who are dying from asthma, and that is because
GPs and 999 Call Handlers don't realise how dangerous it is.

I wonder if you will even BOTHER to mention the 11 *million*
DIESEL cars on the road, the *WORST* culprits.

Andrew Dunkerton


Oops, this was intended for Jeremy Vine. Ignore it.

Load of ******** anyway.

You appear to suggest that nobody born before 1918 had asthma.
As Wonkypedia says "citaiton needed".

Given that my late mother was born before 1918 and suffered from chronic
asthma, so much so that in the 1950s when I was young she spent a lot of
time in hospital, this assumption is not entirely accurate.

Farmers lung was a killer back then for thsoe in the country.

TB got you in towns

Asthamtics pretty much died from TB or bronchitis or pneumonia before
they reached puberty.

Some years ago,, a professor enlisted my help to provide equipment for a
trial he wanted to carry out to test a theory about asthma. It didn't go
ahead, because of problems funding a trial that would need to follow the
development of 1,500 neonates into adulthood.

His theory was that early exposure to diseases like TB provided
protection from asthma. Apparently, unlike many diseases that simply
produce specific antibodies, TB induces changes in the immune system at
a cellular level. That, in turn, provides life-long improvements in
resistance to disease and, he hoped, asthma. His plan was to give
neonates the BCG vaccination, to create the same effect.

You don't need to follow anyone to do a study like that. You can do it
using data collected from people now as long as you can collect past
data. Its how nearly all data on diseases is collected and processed. It
works extremely well as long as the data is fairly accurate.


Asthma is certainly something that I don't recall anybody I knew as a
child having, which I doubt would be the case today.

On 02/05/2018 11:09, Andrew wrote:
On 02/05/2018 09:44, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 02/05/18 09:28, Nightjar wrote:
Asthma is certainly something that I don't recall anybody I knew as a
child having, which I doubt would be the case today.

At least 4 people in my class at primary school had it and 3-4 in my
secondary school, as did I.

We didnt advertise the fact tho.



They tend to grow out of it. The point is, how many of the
14,500 centenarians had serious illnesses or accidents during
their lives before the nanny state NHS ?. These are the ones
who inherited a good set of genes and a fair dose of lady luck.

Isn't that the whole point?
They developed immunity as a result of exposure to stuff that modern
children aren't exposed to. Their immune system learnt to attack the bad
stuff rather than the person so they haven't developed as many illnesses
caused by faulty immune systems. I wonder how they are with arthritis as
that is frequently caused by an over zealous immune system.

On 02/05/2018 12:12, dennis@home wrote:
On 02/05/2018 09:28, Nightjar wrote:
On 01/05/2018 17:51, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 01/05/18 17:46, David wrote:
On Tue, 01 May 2018 12:23:14 +0100, Andrew wrote:

On 01/05/2018 12:22, Andrew wrote:
What an utterly dumb stupid remark to make !!.

Anyone aged 100+, was a child when antibiotics did *not* exist.

Nor did their mothers use 'anti-microbial' sprays or aerosols full of
cleaning materials.

They were exposed to dust and pathogens from the outset and the ones
that survived the childhood illnesses and infections and toxins from
coal smoke have NATURAL immunity.

The worst toxins they have been exposed to are LEAD in petrol and
paint, and ASBESTOS, FAGS, and workplace chemicals like DYES.

It is people under 30 who are dying from asthma, and that is because
GPs and 999 Call Handlers don't realise how dangerous it is.

I wonder if you will even BOTHER to mention the 11 *million*
DIESEL cars on the road, the *WORST* culprits.

Andrew Dunkerton


Oops, this was intended for Jeremy Vine. Ignore it.

Load of ******** anyway.

You appear to suggest that nobody born before 1918 had asthma.
As Wonkypedia says "citaiton needed".

Given that my late mother was born before 1918 and suffered from
chronic
asthma, so much so that in the 1950s when I was young she spent a
lot of
time in hospital, this assumption is not entirely accurate.

Farmers lung was a killer back then for thsoe in the country.

TB got you in towns

Asthamtics pretty much died from TB or bronchitis or pneumonia before
they reached puberty.

Some years ago,, a professor enlisted my help to provide equipment for
a trial he wanted to carry out to test a theory about asthma. It
didn't go ahead, because of problems funding a trial that would need
to follow the development of 1,500 neonates into adulthood.

His theory was that early exposure to diseases like TB provided
protection from asthma. Apparently, unlike many diseases that simply
produce specific antibodies, TB induces changes in the immune system
at a cellular level. That, in turn, provides life-long improvements in
resistance to disease and, he hoped, asthma. His plan was to give
neonates the BCG vaccination, to create the same effect.

You don't need to follow anyone to do a study like that. You can do it
using data collected from people now as long as you can collect past
data. Its how nearly all data on diseases is collected and processed. It
works extremely well as long as the data is fairly accurate.

In the UK, the BCG vaccination was normally given at age 12-14. It was
not usual to give it to neonates.


--
--

Colin Bignell

On Wednesday, 2 May 2018 12:18:02 UTC+1, dennis@home wrote:
On 02/05/2018 11:09, Andrew wrote:
On 02/05/2018 09:44, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 02/05/18 09:28, Nightjar wrote:
Asthma is certainly something that I don't recall anybody I knew as a
child having, which I doubt would be the case today.

At least 4 people in my class at primary school had it and 3-4 in my
secondary school, as did I.

We didnt advertise the fact tho.



They tend to grow out of it. The point is, how many of the
14,500 centenarians had serious illnesses or accidents during
their lives before the nanny state NHS ?. These are the ones
who inherited a good set of genes and a fair dose of lady luck.

Isn't that the whole point?

Distorted stats yes.

They developed immunity as a result of exposure to stuff that modern
children aren't exposed to.

No they didn't or there's little proof. Few children had serious illnesses or accidents from the mines in later life because they died early and few records were kept.

Their immune system learnt to attack the bad
stuff rather than the person so they haven't developed as many illnesses
caused by faulty immune systems.

How many kids then were pushed along in buggies along congested roads with cars and lorries spewing out all sorts of crap, 100 years ago there weren't many cars on the road or buses or lorries. So little CO far less CO2 and virtually no nitrous oxide or platinium from catolitic converters.


I wonder how they are with arthritis as
that is frequently caused by an over zealous immune system.

IS it ?, it's not quite a simple as you seem to think.

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/7621.php

On 02/05/2018 12:35, Nightjar wrote:
On 02/05/2018 12:12, dennis@home wrote:
On 02/05/2018 09:28, Nightjar wrote:
On 01/05/2018 17:51, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 01/05/18 17:46, David wrote:
On Tue, 01 May 2018 12:23:14 +0100, Andrew wrote:

On 01/05/2018 12:22, Andrew wrote:
What an utterly dumb stupid remark to make !!.

Anyone aged 100+, was a child when antibiotics did *not* exist.

Nor did their mothers use 'anti-microbial' sprays or aerosols
full of
cleaning materials.

They were exposed to dust and pathogens from the outset and the ones
that survived the childhood illnesses and infections and toxins from
coal smoke have NATURAL immunity.

The worst toxins they have been exposed to are LEAD in petrol and
paint, and ASBESTOS, FAGS, and workplace chemicals like DYES.

It is people under 30 who are dying from asthma, and that is because
GPs and 999 Call Handlers don't realise how dangerous it is.

I wonder if you will even BOTHER to mention the 11 *million*
DIESEL cars on the road, the *WORST* culprits.

Andrew Dunkerton


Oops, this was intended for Jeremy Vine. Ignore it.

Load of ******** anyway.

You appear to suggest that nobody born before 1918 had asthma.
As Wonkypedia says "citaiton needed".

Given that my late mother was born before 1918 and suffered from
chronic
asthma, so much so that in the 1950s when I was young she spent a
lot of
time in hospital, this assumption is not entirely accurate.

Farmers lung was a killer back then for thsoe in the country.

TB got you in towns

Asthamtics pretty much died from TB or bronchitis or pneumonia
before they reached puberty.

Some years ago,, a professor enlisted my help to provide equipment
for a trial he wanted to carry out to test a theory about asthma. It
didn't go ahead, because of problems funding a trial that would need
to follow the development of 1,500 neonates into adulthood.

His theory was that early exposure to diseases like TB provided
protection from asthma. Apparently, unlike many diseases that simply
produce specific antibodies, TB induces changes in the immune system
at a cellular level. That, in turn, provides life-long improvements
in resistance to disease and, he hoped, asthma. His plan was to give
neonates the BCG vaccination, to create the same effect.

You don't need to follow anyone to do a study like that. You can do it
using data collected from people now as long as you can collect past
data. Its how nearly all data on diseases is collected and processed.
It works extremely well as long as the data is fairly accurate.

In the UK, the BCG vaccination was normally given at age 12-14. It was
not usual to give it to neonates.



And the relevance?

On 02/05/2018 13:33, whisky-dave wrote:
On Wednesday, 2 May 2018 12:18:02 UTC+1, dennis@home wrote:
On 02/05/2018 11:09, Andrew wrote:
On 02/05/2018 09:44, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 02/05/18 09:28, Nightjar wrote:
Asthma is certainly something that I don't recall anybody I
knew as a child having, which I doubt would be the case
today.

At least 4 people in my class at primary school had it and 3-4
in my secondary school, as did I.

We didnt advertise the fact tho.



They tend to grow out of it. The point is, how many of the 14,500
centenarians had serious illnesses or accidents during their
lives before the nanny state NHS ?. These are the ones who
inherited a good set of genes and a fair dose of lady luck.

Isn't that the whole point?

Distorted stats yes.

They developed immunity as a result of exposure to stuff that
modern children aren't exposed to.

No they didn't or there's little proof. Few children had serious
illnesses or accidents from the mines in later life because they died
early and few records were kept.

Irrelevant unless you are claiming those with asthma were more likely to
die in a mine accident.

Likewise serious illness as you are looking at the past history of those
that survived not those that died from other causes.

You have about as much understanding as smokers do.. you can look at a
population and see that lots of the people that suffer from heart
disease smoke so its very likely that smoking causes heart disease but
you say well look they are 90 and smoke and dont have heart disease so
it can't be true. Based totally on your limited views.


Their immune system learnt to attack the bad stuff rather than the
person so they haven't developed as many illnesses caused by faulty
immune systems.

How many kids then were pushed along in buggies along congested roads
with cars and lorries spewing out all sorts of crap, 100 years ago
there weren't many cars on the road or buses or lorries. So little CO
far less CO2 and virtually no nitrous oxide or platinium from
catolitic converters.

Yes and?



I wonder how they are with arthritis as that is frequently caused
by an over zealous immune system.

IS it ?, it's not quite a simple as you seem to think.

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/7621.php

In article ,
charles wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 02/05/18 09:28, Nightjar wrote:
Asthma is certainly something that I don't recall anybody I knew as a
child having, which I doubt would be the case today.

At least 4 people in my class at primary school had it and 3-4 in my
secondary school, as did I.

We didnt advertise the fact tho.

I had a cousin with asthma but that was a rarity in the 1940s.

Think it might have depended on where you live. Pollution varied greatly
across the UK.

--
*If I agreed with you, we'd both be wrong.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
dennis@home wrote:
They tend to grow out of it. The point is, how many of the
14,500 centenarians had serious illnesses or accidents during
their lives before the nanny state NHS ?. These are the ones
who inherited a good set of genes and a fair dose of lady luck.

Isn't that the whole point?
They developed immunity as a result of exposure to stuff that modern
children aren't exposed to. Their immune system learnt to attack the bad
stuff rather than the person so they haven't developed as many illnesses
caused by faulty immune systems. I wonder how they are with arthritis as
that is frequently caused by an over zealous immune system.

They might develop immunity - or simply die early. Dying early might be
very good for the gene pool as a whole, but not rather obviously if your
child.

--
*Horn broken. - Watch for finger.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Wednesday, 2 May 2018 14:07:53 UTC+1, dennis@home wrote:
On 02/05/2018 13:33, whisky-dave wrote:
On Wednesday, 2 May 2018 12:18:02 UTC+1, dennis@home wrote:
On 02/05/2018 11:09, Andrew wrote:
On 02/05/2018 09:44, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 02/05/18 09:28, Nightjar wrote:
Asthma is certainly something that I don't recall anybody I
knew as a child having, which I doubt would be the case
today.

At least 4 people in my class at primary school had it and 3-4
in my secondary school, as did I.

We didnt advertise the fact tho.



They tend to grow out of it. The point is, how many of the 14,500
centenarians had serious illnesses or accidents during their
lives before the nanny state NHS ?. These are the ones who
inherited a good set of genes and a fair dose of lady luck.

Isn't that the whole point?

Distorted stats yes.

They developed immunity as a result of exposure to stuff that
modern children aren't exposed to.

No they didn't or there's little proof. Few children had serious
illnesses or accidents from the mines in later life because they died
early and few records were kept.

Irrelevant unless you are claiming those with asthma were more likely to
die in a mine accident.

I'm claiming that those with asthma or any other such problem might die long before they get to see a doctor for asthma to be recorded especailly 50+ years ago.


Likewise serious illness as you are looking at the past history of those
that survived not those that died from other causes.

That is partly the problem isn't it.
How many of those that died at dunkirk might have lived and had asthma, we'll never really know.


You have about as much understanding as smokers do.. you can look at a
population and see that lots of the people that suffer from heart
disease smoke so its very likely that smoking causes heart disease but
you say well look they are 90 and smoke and dont have heart disease so
it can't be true. Based totally on your limited views.

I'm not limiting my views, you've limited yours.

I'm saying thres no way of knowing whether an adult would get asthma in later life if they died down the pits or at war.
How many of those that died during the black plague had asthma ?


Their immune system learnt to attack the bad stuff rather than the
person so they haven't developed as many illnesses caused by faulty
immune systems.

How many kids then were pushed along in buggies along congested roads
with cars and lorries spewing out all sorts of crap, 100 years ago
there weren't many cars on the road or buses or lorries. So little CO
far less CO2 and virtually no nitrous oxide or platinium from
catolitic converters.

Yes and?

So is it a good thing or a bad thing having kids/babies/teenagers/young-adults/middle-aged/OAP/really crumpty old ****ers100+ breathing in car fumes if as you say it might in the furter protect them from asthma ?


I wonder how they are with arthritis as that is frequently caused
by an over zealous immune system.

IS it ?, it's not quite a simple as you seem to think.

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/7621.php

I never had any injections except tetanus when i was stabbed by a javelin at
school. Also i worrked closely with a person who contracted TB and several
of us had to be followed up for a year or so to make sure we had not caught
it.
Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"dennis@home" wrote in message
news
On 02/05/2018 12:35, Nightjar wrote:
On 02/05/2018 12:12, dennis@home wrote:
On 02/05/2018 09:28, Nightjar wrote:
On 01/05/2018 17:51, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 01/05/18 17:46, David wrote:
On Tue, 01 May 2018 12:23:14 +0100, Andrew wrote:

On 01/05/2018 12:22, Andrew wrote:
What an utterly dumb stupid remark to make !!.

Anyone aged 100+, was a child when antibiotics did *not* exist.

Nor did their mothers use 'anti-microbial' sprays or aerosols full
of
cleaning materials.

They were exposed to dust and pathogens from the outset and the
ones
that survived the childhood illnesses and infections and toxins
from
coal smoke have NATURAL immunity.

The worst toxins they have been exposed to are LEAD in petrol and
paint, and ASBESTOS, FAGS, and workplace chemicals like DYES.

It is people under 30 who are dying from asthma, and that is
because
GPs and 999 Call Handlers don't realise how dangerous it is.

I wonder if you will even BOTHER to mention the 11 *million*
DIESEL cars on the road, the *WORST* culprits.

Andrew Dunkerton


Oops, this was intended for Jeremy Vine. Ignore it.

Load of ******** anyway.

You appear to suggest that nobody born before 1918 had asthma.
As Wonkypedia says "citaiton needed".

Given that my late mother was born before 1918 and suffered from
chronic
asthma, so much so that in the 1950s when I was young she spent a lot
of
time in hospital, this assumption is not entirely accurate.

Farmers lung was a killer back then for thsoe in the country.

TB got you in towns

Asthamtics pretty much died from TB or bronchitis or pneumonia before
they reached puberty.

Some years ago,, a professor enlisted my help to provide equipment for
a trial he wanted to carry out to test a theory about asthma. It didn't
go ahead, because of problems funding a trial that would need to follow
the development of 1,500 neonates into adulthood.

His theory was that early exposure to diseases like TB provided
protection from asthma. Apparently, unlike many diseases that simply
produce specific antibodies, TB induces changes in the immune system at
a cellular level. That, in turn, provides life-long improvements in
resistance to disease and, he hoped, asthma. His plan was to give
neonates the BCG vaccination, to create the same effect.

You don't need to follow anyone to do a study like that. You can do it
using data collected from people now as long as you can collect past
data. Its how nearly all data on diseases is collected and processed. It
works extremely well as long as the data is fairly accurate.

In the UK, the BCG vaccination was normally given at age 12-14. It was
not usual to give it to neonates.



And the relevance?

On 02/05/2018 14:01, dennis@home wrote:
On 02/05/2018 12:35, Nightjar wrote:
On 02/05/2018 12:12, dennis@home wrote:
On 02/05/2018 09:28, Nightjar wrote:
On 01/05/2018 17:51, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 01/05/18 17:46, David wrote:
On Tue, 01 May 2018 12:23:14 +0100, Andrew wrote:

On 01/05/2018 12:22, Andrew wrote:
What an utterly dumb stupid remark to make !!.

Anyone aged 100+, was a child when antibiotics did *not* exist.

Nor did their mothers use 'anti-microbial' sprays or aerosols
full of
cleaning materials.

They were exposed to dust and pathogens from the outset and the
ones
that survived the childhood illnesses and infections and toxins
from
coal smoke have NATURAL immunity.

The worst toxins they have been exposed to are LEAD in petrol and
paint, and ASBESTOS, FAGS, and workplace chemicals like DYES.

It is people under 30 who are dying from asthma, and that is
because
GPs and 999 Call Handlers don't realise how dangerous it is.

I wonder if you will even BOTHER to mention the 11 *million*
DIESEL cars on the road, the *WORST* culprits.

Andrew Dunkerton


Oops, this was intended for Jeremy Vine. Ignore it.

Load of ******** anyway.

You appear to suggest that nobody born before 1918 had asthma.
As Wonkypedia says "citaiton needed".

Given that my late mother was born before 1918 and suffered from
chronic
asthma, so much so that in the 1950s when I was young she spent a
lot of
time in hospital, this assumption is not entirely accurate.

Farmers lung was a killer back then for thsoe in the country.

TB got you in towns

Asthamtics pretty much died from TB or bronchitis or pneumonia
before they reached puberty.

Some years ago,, a professor enlisted my help to provide equipment
for a trial he wanted to carry out to test a theory about asthma. It
didn't go ahead, because of problems funding a trial that would need
to follow the development of 1,500 neonates into adulthood.

His theory was that early exposure to diseases like TB provided
protection from asthma. Apparently, unlike many diseases that simply
produce specific antibodies, TB induces changes in the immune system
at a cellular level. That, in turn, provides life-long improvements
in resistance to disease and, he hoped, asthma. His plan was to give
neonates the BCG vaccination, to create the same effect.

You don't need to follow anyone to do a study like that. You can do
it using data collected from people now as long as you can collect
past data. Its how nearly all data on diseases is collected and
processed. It works extremely well as long as the data is fairly
accurate.

In the UK, the BCG vaccination was normally given at age 12-14. It was
not usual to give it to neonates.



And the relevance?

The study was intended to see whether giving the BCG vaccination to
neonates would affect their susceptibility to asthma in later life. At
age 12-14 the desired modification of the T cells does not occur.

As there was no identifiable population of adults who had been given the
vaccination as neonates, it was not possible to use historical data.
Hence the need for a study that followed them as they grew.

--
--

Colin Bignell

On 02/05/2018 14:11, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
charles wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 02/05/18 09:28, Nightjar wrote:
Asthma is certainly something that I don't recall anybody I knew as a
child having, which I doubt would be the case today.

At least 4 people in my class at primary school had it and 3-4 in my
secondary school, as did I.

We didnt advertise the fact tho.

I had a cousin with asthma but that was a rarity in the 1940s.

Think it might have depended on where you live. Pollution varied greatly
across the UK.

I grew up in London.

--
--

Colin Bignell

"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, 2 May 2018 14:07:53 UTC+1, dennis@home wrote:
On 02/05/2018 13:33, whisky-dave wrote:
On Wednesday, 2 May 2018 12:18:02 UTC+1, dennis@home wrote:
On 02/05/2018 11:09, Andrew wrote:
On 02/05/2018 09:44, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 02/05/18 09:28, Nightjar wrote:
Asthma is certainly something that I don't recall anybody I
knew as a child having, which I doubt would be the case
today.

At least 4 people in my class at primary school had it and 3-4
in my secondary school, as did I.

We didnt advertise the fact tho.



They tend to grow out of it. The point is, how many of the 14,500
centenarians had serious illnesses or accidents during their
lives before the nanny state NHS ?. These are the ones who
inherited a good set of genes and a fair dose of lady luck.

Isn't that the whole point?

Distorted stats yes.

They developed immunity as a result of exposure to stuff that
modern children aren't exposed to.

No they didn't or there's little proof. Few children had serious
illnesses or accidents from the mines in later life because they died
early and few records were kept.

Irrelevant unless you are claiming those with asthma were more likely to
die in a mine accident.

I'm claiming that those with asthma or any other such
problem might die long before they get to see a doctor
for asthma to be recorded especailly 50+ years ago.

Problem with that line is that I dont recall any kids
I knew dying at all, from anything, 50+ years ago.

Likewise serious illness as you are looking at the past history
of those that survived not those that died from other causes.

That is partly the problem isn't it.
How many of those that died at dunkirk might have
lived and had asthma, we'll never really know.

Asthma isnt something that shows up in those after that age.

And before WW1, the percentage of the population dying in
the UK in wars in say the century before WW1 was much lower.

You have about as much understanding as smokers do.. you can look
at a population and see that lots of the people that suffer from heart
disease smoke so its very likely that smoking causes heart disease but
you say well look they are 90 and smoke and dont have heart disease
so it can't be true. Based totally on your limited views.

I'm not limiting my views, you've limited yours.

I'm saying thres no way of knowing whether an adult would
get asthma in later life if they died down the pits or at war.

Asthma isnt something you get in later life.

How many of those that died during the black plague had asthma ?

Their immune system learnt to attack the bad stuff rather than the
person so they haven't developed as many illnesses caused by faulty
immune systems.

How many kids then were pushed along in buggies along congested roads
with cars and lorries spewing out all sorts of crap, 100 years ago
there weren't many cars on the road or buses or lorries. So little CO
far less CO2 and virtually no nitrous oxide or platinium from
catolitic converters.

Yes and?

So is it a good thing or a bad thing having kids/babies/teenagers/young
-adults/middle-aged/OAP/really crumpty old ****ers100+ breathing in
car fumes if as you say it might in the furter protect them from asthma ?

Yes, you do have a valid point that modern kids are exposed to quite
a bit of that sort of thing that the boomer kids weren't exposed to.

But the boomer kids in london were exposed to a
lot more smog from coal used to heat houses too.

But that doesnt explain why we see a lot more kids with
asthma here than we used to with the boomer kids.

I wonder how they are with arthritis as that is frequently caused
by an over zealous immune system.

IS it ?, it's not quite a simple as you seem to think.

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/7621.php

On Wednesday, 2 May 2018 13:33:08 UTC+1, whisky-dave wrote:
On Wednesday, 2 May 2018 12:18:02 UTC+1, dennis@home wrote:
On 02/05/2018 11:09, Andrew wrote:
On 02/05/2018 09:44, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 02/05/18 09:28, Nightjar wrote:
Asthma is certainly something that I don't recall anybody I knew as a
child having, which I doubt would be the case today.

At least 4 people in my class at primary school had it and 3-4 in my
secondary school, as did I.

We didnt advertise the fact tho.



They tend to grow out of it. The point is, how many of the
14,500 centenarians had serious illnesses or accidents during
their lives before the nanny state NHS ?. These are the ones
who inherited a good set of genes and a fair dose of lady luck.

Isn't that the whole point?

Distorted stats yes.

They developed immunity as a result of exposure to stuff that modern
children aren't exposed to.

No they didn't or there's little proof. Few children had serious illnesses or accidents from the mines in later life because they died early and few records were kept.

Their immune system learnt to attack the bad
stuff rather than the person so they haven't developed as many illnesses
caused by faulty immune systems.

How many kids then were pushed along in buggies along congested roads with cars and lorries spewing out all sorts of crap, 100 years ago there weren't many cars on the road or buses or lorries. So little CO far less CO2 and virtually no nitrous oxide or platinium from catolitic converters.


On the other hand, there were lots of coal fires and smogs in towns and cities.
Sulphur dioxide.

Hard to prove what causes what.

Catalytic converters you mean.
The problem is they also produce ammonia and hydrogen sulphide.

"dennis@home" wrote in message
...
On 02/05/2018 11:09, Andrew wrote:
On 02/05/2018 09:44, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 02/05/18 09:28, Nightjar wrote:
Asthma is certainly something that I don't recall anybody I knew as a
child having, which I doubt would be the case today.

At least 4 people in my class at primary school had it and 3-4 in my
secondary school, as did I.

We didnt advertise the fact tho.



They tend to grow out of it. The point is, how many of the
14,500 centenarians had serious illnesses or accidents during
their lives before the nanny state NHS ?. These are the ones
who inherited a good set of genes and a fair dose of lady luck.

Isn't that the whole point?
They developed immunity as a result of exposure to stuff that modern
children aren't exposed to. Their immune system learnt to attack the bad
stuff rather than the person so they haven't developed as many illnesses
caused by faulty immune systems. I wonder how they are with arthritis as
that is frequently caused by an over zealous immune system.

is it

mine's caused by worn out joints

tim

On 03/05/18 09:14, tim... wrote:


"dennis@home" wrote in message
...
On 02/05/2018 11:09, Andrew wrote:
On 02/05/2018 09:44, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 02/05/18 09:28, Nightjar wrote:
Asthma is certainly something that I don't recall anybody I knew as
a child having, which I doubt would be the case today.

At least 4 people in my class at primary school had it and 3-4 in my
secondary school, as did I.

We didnt advertise the fact tho.



They tend to grow out of it. The point is, how many of the
14,500 centenarians had serious illnesses or accidents during
their lives before the nanny state NHS ?. These are the ones
who inherited a good set of genes and a fair dose of lady luck.

Isn't that the whole point?
They developed immunity as a result of exposure to stuff that modern
children aren't exposed to. Their immune system learnt to attack the
bad stuff rather than the person so they haven't developed as many
illnesses caused by faulty immune systems. I wonder how they are with
arthritis as that is frequently caused by an over zealous immune system.

is it

mine's caused by worn out joints

however rheumatoid is an allergic reaction


tim





--
The theory of Communism may be summed up in one sentence: Abolish all
private property.

Karl Marx

On 02/05/2018 14:57, whisky-dave wrote:
On Wednesday, 2 May 2018 14:07:53 UTC+1, dennis@home wrote:
....
They developed immunity as a result of exposure to stuff that
modern children aren't exposed to.

No they didn't or there's little proof.

It is a widely held belief by experts in the field, even if they cannot
prove it with figures. As I noted in another part of this thread, there
were plans to test the theory, by giving around 1,500 neonates the BCG
vaccination and following their development, but the trial never
achieved fruition.

....
I'm claiming that those with asthma or any other such problem might die long before they get to see a doctor for asthma to be recorded especailly 50+ years ago....

The BMJ did a study of children who presented with symptoms of wheezing.
They found that it was 10% of the child population in the 1960s and
20-30% by the year 2000. About 2% more of the child population survived
past the age of five in 2000, as compared to 1960. These figures support
the claim that the incidence of asthma has increased over that period.


--
--

Colin Bignell

Nightjar explained on 02/05/2018 :
Asthma is certainly something that I don't recall anybody I knew as a child
having, which I doubt would be the case today.

Many other health issues, but like you I don't recall anyone who
suffered with it. There were not anything like the numbers of motor
vehicles on the road, but plenty of smoke from factory and coal fires.

Nightjar pretended :
As there was no identifiable population of adults who had been given the
vaccination as _neonates_

Was I the only one who had to look that word up?

On Thursday, 3 May 2018 08:03:21 UTC+1, harry wrote:
On Wednesday, 2 May 2018 13:33:08 UTC+1, whisky-dave wrote:
On Wednesday, 2 May 2018 12:18:02 UTC+1, dennis@home wrote:
On 02/05/2018 11:09, Andrew wrote:
On 02/05/2018 09:44, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 02/05/18 09:28, Nightjar wrote:

Asthma is certainly something that I don't recall anybody I knew as a
child having, which I doubt would be the case today.

At least 4 people in my class at primary school had it and 3-4 in my
secondary school, as did I.

We didnt advertise the fact tho.



They tend to grow out of it. The point is, how many of the
14,500 centenarians had serious illnesses or accidents during
their lives before the nanny state NHS ?. These are the ones
who inherited a good set of genes and a fair dose of lady luck.

Isn't that the whole point?

Distorted stats yes.

They developed immunity as a result of exposure to stuff that modern
children aren't exposed to.

No they didn't or there's little proof. Few children had serious illnesses or accidents from the mines in later life because they died early and few records were kept.

Their immune system learnt to attack the bad
stuff rather than the person so they haven't developed as many illnesses
caused by faulty immune systems.

How many kids then were pushed along in buggies along congested roads with cars and lorries spewing out all sorts of crap, 100 years ago there weren't many cars on the road or buses or lorries. So little CO far less CO2 and virtually no nitrous oxide or platinium from catolitic converters.


On the other hand, there were lots of coal fires and smogs in towns and cities.
Sulphur dioxide.

Hard to prove what causes what.

Catalytic converters you mean.
The problem is they also produce ammonia and hydrogen sulphide.

catholic converters. They solve the problem of pollution protestants.


NT

On Wednesday, 2 May 2018 17:29:37 UTC+1, Nightjar wrote:
On 02/05/2018 14:11, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
charles wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 02/05/18 09:28, Nightjar wrote:
Asthma is certainly something that I don't recall anybody I knew as a
child having, which I doubt would be the case today.

At least 4 people in my class at primary school had it and 3-4 in my
secondary school, as did I.

We didnt advertise the fact tho.

I had a cousin with asthma but that was a rarity in the 1940s.

Think it might have depended on where you live. Pollution varied greatly
across the UK.

I grew up in London.

London might be one city but there are differnt places in London.

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/lond...-a3236611.html



--
--

Colin Bignell

On 03/05/2018 10:14, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Nightjar explained on 02/05/2018 :
Asthma is certainly something that I don't recall anybody I knew as a
child having, which I doubt would be the case today.

Many other health issues, but like you I don't recall anyone who
suffered with it. There were not anything like the numbers of motor
vehicles on the road,

They did, however, have many times the exhaust emissions levels and the
petrol contained lead.

but plenty of smoke from factory and coal fires.

I remember this:

https://www.theguardian.com/environm...on-in-pictures

That was real air pollution. The air was even yellow indoors.

--
--

Colin Bignell

On Wednesday, 2 May 2018 21:29:49 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, 2 May 2018 14:07:53 UTC+1, dennis@home wrote:
On 02/05/2018 13:33, whisky-dave wrote:
On Wednesday, 2 May 2018 12:18:02 UTC+1, dennis@home wrote:
On 02/05/2018 11:09, Andrew wrote:
On 02/05/2018 09:44, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 02/05/18 09:28, Nightjar wrote:
Asthma is certainly something that I don't recall anybody I
knew as a child having, which I doubt would be the case
today.

At least 4 people in my class at primary school had it and 3-4
in my secondary school, as did I.

We didnt advertise the fact tho.



They tend to grow out of it. The point is, how many of the 14,500
centenarians had serious illnesses or accidents during their
lives before the nanny state NHS ?. These are the ones who
inherited a good set of genes and a fair dose of lady luck.

Isn't that the whole point?

Distorted stats yes.

They developed immunity as a result of exposure to stuff that
modern children aren't exposed to.

No they didn't or there's little proof. Few children had serious
illnesses or accidents from the mines in later life because they died
early and few records were kept.

Irrelevant unless you are claiming those with asthma were more likely to
die in a mine accident.

I'm claiming that those with asthma or any other such
problem might die long before they get to see a doctor
for asthma to be recorded especailly 50+ years ago.

Problem with that line is that I dont recall any kids
I knew dying at all, from anything, 50+ years ago.

Most could look back at the past to see what was killing people,
but asthma wasn't really recorded accuratly as it wasn't really known about like it is today.


Likewise serious illness as you are looking at the past history
of those that survived not those that died from other causes.

That is partly the problem isn't it.
How many of those that died at dunkirk might have
lived and had asthma, we'll never really know.

Asthma isnt something that shows up in those after that age.

well not if they died in gteh blitz it wouldn't.
http://asthmaandallergies.org/asthma...-onset-asthma/


And before WW1, the percentage of the population dying in
the UK in wars in say the century before WW1 was much lower.

irrelivant to asthma.


You have about as much understanding as smokers do.. you can look
at a population and see that lots of the people that suffer from heart
disease smoke so its very likely that smoking causes heart disease but
you say well look they are 90 and smoke and dont have heart disease
so it can't be true. Based totally on your limited views.

I'm not limiting my views, you've limited yours.

I'm saying thres no way of knowing whether an adult would
get asthma in later life if they died down the pits or at war.

Asthma isnt something you get in later life.

Yes it is.

How does adult onset asthma compare with childhood asthma?

Unlike children who often experience intermittent asthma symptoms in response to allergy triggers or respiratory infections, adults with newly diagnosed asthma generally have persistent symptoms. Daily medications may be required to keep asthma under control.

Or are you realy saying you've only ever seen kids use those inhalers



So is it a good thing or a bad thing having kids/babies/teenagers/young
-adults/middle-aged/OAP/really crumpty old ****ers100+ breathing in
car fumes if as you say it might in the furter protect them from asthma ?

Yes, you do have a valid point that modern kids are exposed to quite
a bit of that sort of thing that the boomer kids weren't exposed to.

and jimmy saville


But the boomer kids in london were exposed to a
lot more smog from coal used to heat houses too.

but was it called asthma, was it asthma ?


But that doesnt explain why we see a lot more kids with
asthma here than we used to with the boomer kids.

That could be down to city pollution and chemicals rather than rape seed or pollen.

Obesity increases the chances of getting asthma, adults get longer to get to obesity than kids do, although with all the fast food outlets near schools they'll ketch-up :-D

On Thursday, 3 May 2018 08:03:21 UTC+1, harry wrote:
On Wednesday, 2 May 2018 13:33:08 UTC+1, whisky-dave wrote:


How many kids then were pushed along in buggies along congested roads with cars and lorries spewing out all sorts of crap, 100 years ago there weren't many cars on the road or buses or lorries. So little CO far less CO2 and virtually no nitrous oxide or platinium from catolitic converters.


On the other hand, there were lots of coal fires and smogs in towns and cities.
Sulphur dioxide.

But does that cause asthma ?

Exposure to various irritants and substances that trigger allergies (allergens) can trigger signs and symptoms of asthma. Asthma triggers are different from person to person and can include: Airborne substances, such as pollen, dust mites, mold spores, pet dander or particles of cockroach waste

Hard to prove what causes what.

Not really but if yuo say coal dust causes asthma, I think that can be proved wrong. asthma is generaly caused by biological things rather than radiation or asbestos which has it's own symptoms.



Catalytic converters you mean.
The problem is they also produce ammonia and hydrogen sulphide.

which I don;t think cause asthma but cause other lung problems that might lok like asthma and have similar sysmtoms.
Ypu can;t always tell without the details and I don;lt think the early 1900s recorded many details on asthma.

On 03/05/2018 09:19, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
however rheumatoid is an allergic reaction

No it isn't.

RA is part of a family of auto-immune diseases where
the body decides that part of itself is 'foreign' and
targets it with the standard process similar to
transplant rejection.

Pernicious anaemia is another, where the cells in the
stomach that produce intrinsic factor are destroyed,
making it impossible to absorb Vit B12. This is a nasty
one because the effects are unlike iron-deficiency
anaemia (which soon makes people pale and breathless).

The body just slowly steals B12 from somewhere else, namely the
sheath that surrounds nerves. Sometimes patients present
with severe walking and coordination difficulties even though
their Hb is down to 5 gms/dl or less. The damage is
irreversible.

On 03/05/2018 10:27, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Nightjar pretended :
As there was no identifiable population of adults who had been given
the vaccination as _neonates_

Was I the only one who had to look that word up?

Possibly. I know it means.

On 03/05/2018 12:20, Nightjar wrote:
On 03/05/2018 10:14, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Nightjar explained on 02/05/2018 :
Asthma is certainly something that I don't recall anybody I knew as a
child having, which I doubt would be the case today.

Many other health issues, but like you I don't recall anyone who
suffered with it. There were not anything like the numbers of motor
vehicles on the road,

They did, however, have many times the exhaust emissions levels and the
petrol contained lead.

but plenty of smoke from factory and coal fires.

I remember this:

https://www.theguardian.com/environm...on-in-pictures


That was real air pollution. The air was even yellow indoors.


That was caused by freak weather. A blocking high pressure over London
at a time when all our quality coal was going for export while we were
broke after WW2.

For domestic use, we were using all the cheap, dirty nasty stuff at
a time when coal was the standard way to heat buildings. The smoke
got stuck under a layer of air that forced all the nasty stuff to
end up at ground level.

In article ,
Nightjar wrote:
Many other health issues, but like you I don't recall anyone who
suffered with it. There were not anything like the numbers of motor
vehicles on the road,

They did, however, have many times the exhaust emissions levels and the
petrol contained lead.

Not sure what particular type of pollution is likely to bring on or make
asthma worse?

but plenty of smoke from factory and coal fires.

I remember this:

https://www.theguardian.com/environm...on-in-pictures

That was real air pollution. The air was even yellow indoors.

I arrived in London to work just in time for that last real smog. Scary.

--
*I don't have a license to kill, but I do have a learner's permit.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Andrew wrote:
That was caused by freak weather. A blocking high pressure over London
at a time when all our quality coal was going for export while we were
broke after WW2.

So when Harold MacMillan said 'we'd never had it so good' he was lying?

--
*"I am " is reportedly the shortest sentence in the English language. *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 02/05/2018 21:29, Rod Speed wrote:

8

Problem with that line is that I dont recall any kids
I knew dying at all, from anything, 50+ years ago.


I knew two, they both electrocuted themselves climbing on trains in
Bescot sidings.

In article ,
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Nightjar wrote:
Many other health issues, but like you I don't recall anyone who
suffered with it. There were not anything like the numbers of motor
vehicles on the road,

They did, however, have many times the exhaust emissions levels and the
petrol contained lead.

Not sure what particular type of pollution is likely to bring on or make
asthma worse?

but plenty of smoke from factory and coal fires.

I remember this:

https://www.theguardian.com/environm...on-in-pictures

That was real air pollution. The air was even yellow indoors.

I arrived in London to work just in time for that last real smog. Scary

we had to spend the night at TV Centre - the taxis wouldn't come out to
take us home ;-(

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

On 03/05/2018 12:53, Andrew wrote:
On 03/05/2018 12:20, Nightjar wrote:
....
I remember this:

https://www.theguardian.com/environm...on-in-pictures


That was real air pollution. The air was even yellow indoors.


That was caused by freak weather. A blocking high pressure over London
at a time when all our quality coal was going for export while we were
broke after WW2.

For domestic use, we were using all the cheap, dirty nasty stuff at
a time when coal was the standard way to heat buildings. The smoke
got stuck under a layer of air that forced all the nasty stuff to
end up at ground level.

Which made it the worst smog we had, but it was far from the only one.
Most winters would have a period when you could see and taste the air.


--
--

Colin Bignell

Harry Bloomfield wrote
Nightjar wrote

As there was no identifiable population of adults
who had been given the vaccination as _neonates_

Was I the only one who had to look that word up?

Unlikely, but I didn't have to.

"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, 2 May 2018 21:29:49 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, 2 May 2018 14:07:53 UTC+1, dennis@home wrote:
On 02/05/2018 13:33, whisky-dave wrote:
On Wednesday, 2 May 2018 12:18:02 UTC+1, dennis@home wrote:
On 02/05/2018 11:09, Andrew wrote:
On 02/05/2018 09:44, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 02/05/18 09:28, Nightjar wrote:
Asthma is certainly something that I don't recall anybody I
knew as a child having, which I doubt would be the case
today.

At least 4 people in my class at primary school had it and 3-4
in my secondary school, as did I.

We didnt advertise the fact tho.



They tend to grow out of it. The point is, how many of the 14,500
centenarians had serious illnesses or accidents during their
lives before the nanny state NHS ?. These are the ones who
inherited a good set of genes and a fair dose of lady luck.

Isn't that the whole point?

Distorted stats yes.

They developed immunity as a result of exposure to stuff that
modern children aren't exposed to.

No they didn't or there's little proof. Few children had serious
illnesses or accidents from the mines in later life because they
died
early and few records were kept.

Irrelevant unless you are claiming those with asthma were more likely
to
die in a mine accident.

I'm claiming that those with asthma or any other such
problem might die long before they get to see a doctor
for asthma to be recorded especailly 50+ years ago.

Problem with that line is that I dont recall any kids
I knew dying at all, from anything, 50+ years ago.

Most could look back at the past to see what was killing
people, but asthma wasn't really recorded accuratly as
it wasn't really known about like it is today.

Sure, but I was saying that none I knew died,
not that it wasnt known what killed them.

I only knew one who died personally when I was rather
older and it was known that she died of leukaemia.

I didnt even know any personally who had died in an accident.

Likewise serious illness as you are looking at the past history
of those that survived not those that died from other causes.

That is partly the problem isn't it.
How many of those that died at dunkirk might have
lived and had asthma, we'll never really know.

Asthma isnt something that shows up in those after that age.

http://asthmaandallergies.org/asthma...-onset-asthma/

Sure, but its much less common than asthma in children.

And before WW1, the percentage of the population dying in
the UK in wars in say the century before WW1 was much lower.

irrelivant to asthma.

Completely relevant to your line that we didnt
see asthma in them because they died in the war.

You have about as much understanding as smokers do.. you can look
at a population and see that lots of the people that suffer from heart
disease smoke so its very likely that smoking causes heart disease but
you say well look they are 90 and smoke and dont have heart disease
so it can't be true. Based totally on your limited views.

I'm not limiting my views, you've limited yours.

I'm saying thres no way of knowing whether an adult would
get asthma in later life if they died down the pits or at war.

Asthma isnt something you get in later life.

Yes it is.

How does adult onset asthma compare with childhood asthma?

Unlike children who often experience intermittent asthma symptoms in
response to allergy triggers or respiratory infections, adults with newly
diagnosed asthma generally have persistent symptoms. Daily medications may
be required to keep asthma under control.

Or are you realy saying you've only ever seen kids use those inhalers

Never seen an adult use one.

So is it a good thing or a bad thing having kids/babies/teenagers/young
-adults/middle-aged/OAP/really crumpty old ****ers100+ breathing in
car fumes if as you say it might in the furter protect them from asthma
?

Yes, you do have a valid point that modern kids are exposed to quite
a bit of that sort of thing that the boomer kids weren't exposed to.

and jimmy saville

Thats a myth. There were in fact plenty of pedophiles
in the victorian era. Lots of incest too.

But the boomer kids in london were exposed to a
lot more smog from coal used to heat houses too.

but was it called asthma, was it asthma ?

I wasnt saying anything about what it was called, just
pointing out that there was lots of pollution then.

But that doesnt explain why we see a lot more kids with
asthma here than we used to with the boomer kids.

That could be down to city pollution

Unlikely when london particularly was much more polluted for
the boomer kids. Maybe that pollution didnt produce asthma tho.

and chemicals

Unlikely that there were more chemicals then than we see now
with so much more use of plastics and stuff like paint etc and
cleaning chemicals now. But again, maybe those weren't what
produced asthma in kids.

rather than rape seed or pollen.

Rather unlikely there is a lot more of that now than for the boomer kids.

Obesity increases the chances of getting asthma,

None of the recent kids I know who had asthma were obese.

adults get longer to get to obesity than kids do,

But far fewer adults get asthma than with kids.

On 03/05/2018 12:08, whisky-dave wrote:
On Wednesday, 2 May 2018 17:29:37 UTC+1, Nightjar wrote:
On 02/05/2018 14:11, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
charles wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 02/05/18 09:28, Nightjar wrote:
Asthma is certainly something that I don't recall anybody I knew as a
child having, which I doubt would be the case today.

At least 4 people in my class at primary school had it and 3-4 in my
secondary school, as did I.

We didnt advertise the fact tho.

I had a cousin with asthma but that was a rarity in the 1940s.

Think it might have depended on where you live. Pollution varied greatly
across the UK.

I grew up in London.

London might be one city but there are differnt places in London.

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/lond...-a3236611.html

However, that is applying modern standards. According to this article,
today both NOx and particulates are at a quarter of the level they were
in the 1970s:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/health-f...lth-emergency/

Earlier decades would also have seen significant levels of sulphur
dioxide and soot in the air.

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Colin Bignell