I plan on finding the last light in loop that should have only 2 cables into
it. From there I take 1.5mm t&e joined into that light fitting to a fused
switch I plan on putting 3amp fuse max into that and the flex from the light
unit would be permanently fixed into that switch. The light unit is metal it
runs 4x t5 tubes equal to 4x 54w tubes 0.96amps. I run cable from lighting
fixture to fused switch then the light is fixed into the switch. Is this all
sound correct have I missed anything. The light is free hanging on adjustable
hangers.

--
for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/uk-diy...e-1242228-.htm

On Thu, 12 Oct 2017 12:14:02 GMT, Yam man
m coalesced the
vapors of human experience into a viable and meaningful
comprehension...

I plan on finding the last light in loop that should have only 2 cables into
it. From there I take 1.5mm t&e joined into that light fitting to a fused
switch I plan on putting 3amp fuse max into that and the flex from the light
unit would be permanently fixed into that switch. The light unit is metal it
runs 4x t5 tubes equal to 4x 54w tubes 0.96amps. I run cable from lighting
fixture to fused switch then the light is fixed into the switch. Is this all
sound correct have I missed anything. The light is free hanging on adjustable
hangers.

The FCU seems unnecessary to me, why not use an ordinary switch?

--

Graham.
%Profound_observation%

Graham. wrote:
On Thu, 12 Oct 2017 12:14:02 GMT, Yam man
m coalesced the
vapors of human experience into a viable and meaningful
comprehension...

I plan on finding the last light in loop that should have only 2 cables into
it. From there I take 1.5mm t&e joined into that light fitting to a fused
switch I plan on putting 3amp fuse max into that and the flex from the light
unit would be permanently fixed into that switch. The light unit is metal it
runs 4x t5 tubes equal to 4x 54w tubes 0.96amps. I run cable from lighting
fixture to fused switch then the light is fixed into the switch. Is this all
sound correct have I missed anything. The light is free hanging on adjustable
hangers.

The FCU seems unnecessary to me, why not use an ordinary switch?

And there is no need to find the end of the line. Picking up unswitched
power from the nearest convenient lighting JB or ceiling rose should be
fine. Dont forget to take an earth to the light fitting as well.

replying to Bob Minchin, Yam man wrote:
Thanks for input guys. So I've found a lighting cable that reads live on
voltage tester pen I can turn off breaker to lights then cut that cable wire
both ends into a new 4way 20 amp jb. Join my switch into that loop then from
switch I join on my light? Is that correct? I have basic knowledge and
awareness of electrics but I'm a mechanic not a sparky so apologies if I'm not
very quick on uptake we all learn new sometime. I'm not sure about where the
earth come from or to for the light fitting? It has a cable and 3pin usual
plug on I plan on cutting it off and it should have earth in that is that not
sufficient? Thanks again for all and any help.

--
for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/uk-diy...e-1242228-.htm

On Thu, 12 Oct 2017 20:44:02 GMT, Yam man
m coalesced the
vapors of human experience into a viable and meaningful
comprehension...

replying to Bob Minchin, Yam man wrote:
Thanks for input guys. So I've found a lighting cable that reads live on
voltage tester pen I can turn off breaker to lights then cut that cable wire
both ends into a new 4way 20 amp jb. Join my switch into that loop then from
switch I join on my light? Is that correct? I have basic knowledge and
awareness of electrics but I'm a mechanic not a sparky so apologies if I'm not
very quick on uptake we all learn new sometime. I'm not sure about where the
earth come from or to for the light fitting? It has a cable and 3pin usual
plug on I plan on cutting it off and it should have earth in that is that not
sufficient? Thanks again for all and any help.

Odd that it was supplied with a plug, but that seems OK.
Just for the avoidance of doubt, this lighting circuit is protected by
a 6 amp breaker, yes?

--

Graham.
%Profound_observation%

On 12/10/2017 21:44, Yam man wrote:
replying to Bob Minchin, Yam man wrote:
Thanks for input guys. So I've found a lighting cable that reads live on
voltage tester pen I can turn off breaker to lights then cut that cable
wire
both ends into a new 4way 20 amp jb. Join my switch into that loop then
from
switch I join on my light? Is that correct? I have basic knowledge and
awareness of electrics but I'm a mechanic not a sparky so apologies if

Here is how you normally do "loop in" wiring with junction boxes or at a
switch location:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/...Wiring_Options


I'm not
very quick on uptake we all learn new sometime. I'm not sure about where
the
earth come from or to for the light fitting? It has a cable and 3pin usual
plug on I plan on cutting it off and it should have earth in that is
that not
sufficient? Thanks again for all and any help.

Yup the earth in its flex will be adequate.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

replying to Graham., Yam man wrote:
Hi thanks for reply graham yes the lighting circuit is protected by 6amp
breaker. It has 8 lights upstairs and all seem to have 3 wires into each
ceiling rose/light fitting. All CFL bulbs apart from 1 that has 5 gu10 bulbs
on the light bar in daughters room. That will be changed over next few weeks
to usual CFL x2. That's my lighting sorted out now then. Thanks for help. Next
project is getting 2 double switched sockets up there. Any help advise greatly
appreciated guys

--
for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/uk-diy...e-1242228-.htm

replying to John Rumm, Yam man wrote:
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/...Wiring_Options


Thanks for that John great help. It will take me awhile to get to grips with
as I said previously I'm a grease monkey only normally deal with 12v
electrics. I'm not stupid I'm aware that this voltage is extreme to what I'm
used to but with help from you guys I'm sure I can obtain the result I need.

--
for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/uk-diy...e-1242228-.htm

EEk, dont think you should put sockets on a lighting circuit, wire's too thin, somebody might plug in a heater. And legally you'd need council building control.

Why not use an extension lead off of an existing 15 or 30 amp socket?

I think its still legally an extension lead if you have to remove the plug before threading it through holes in floors and ceilings and walls, make sure its a big fat wire if it goes a long way and may have heaters, kettles, elec tools etc off it at some time in the future. And replace the plug with a 13 amp fuse, or10 amp, or 3.

If you blow the lights circuit fuse all the lights will go off, so get a battery backup light too!

[george]

Yam man wrote:
12:44 PM (3 hours ago)
replying to Graham., Yam man wrote:
Hi thanks for reply graham yes the lighting circuit is protected by 6amp
breaker. xxx Next
project is getting 2 double switched sockets up there. Any help advise greatly
appreciated guys

On 13/10/2017 12:44, Yam man wrote:
replying to John Rumm, Yam man wrote:
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/...Wiring_Options



Thanks for that John great help. It will take me awhile to get to grips
with
as I said previously I'm a grease monkey only normally deal with 12v
electrics. I'm not stupid I'm aware that this voltage is extreme to what
I'm
used to but with help from you guys I'm sure I can obtain the result I
need.

Yup, take it steady, read some of the electrical articles in the wiki,
and ask questions if you are not sure, and you will be fine.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 13/10/2017 16:34, DICEGEORGE wrote:

EEk, dont think you should put sockets on a lighting circuit, wire's
too thin, somebody might plug in a heater.

So long as you label them as only being suitable for loads under (say)
3A then you are ok.

The wire will be adequately protected against fault and overload by the
MCB, so that is ok.

And legally you'd need
council building control.

No you don't. That would only be for a job classed as "notifiable". That
does not include extending existing circuits, or work in a loft.

(it would include changing the main CU or adding completely new circuits)



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

replying to John Rumm, Yam man wrote:
Sorry not been clear in last post. The Fcu will have only 3amp fuse in for the
described light that's goin to be removed if I ever remove the light from the
lighting curcuit. I wouldn't take double sockets from lighting as I know it's
a no no unless amped down to 3-5 amp max? But I plan on taking cable from the
rear of our socket on the landing down inside wall and under floorboards run
of around 6ft then up the inside of cupboard halfway up wall into 13amp sfu
then cable into loft which is run of around 15-18ft clipping it directly to
the wall in cupboard and into loft then a double switched 13 amp socket from
which I want to future proof and add a 2nd double socket. (Never no might hide
away from the wife and need home cinema kit installed) that's the plan for
the power sockets does that all sound ok? Is there any rule reason not to use
4mm t&e to spur from socket? I'm using 1.5mm for the lighting curcuit. Does
this all sound ok or am I seriously missing something? Thanks for help again
guys

--
for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/uk-diy...e-1242228-.htm

On 13/10/2017 23:44, Yam man wrote:
replying to John Rumm, Yam man wrote:

Sorry not been clear in last post. The Fcu will have only 3amp fuse
in for the described light that's goin to be removed if I ever remove
the light from the lighting curcuit. I wouldn't take double sockets
from lighting as I know it's a no no unless amped down to 3-5 amp
max? But I plan on taking cable

Its not uncommon for example to add some sockets in a loft to a lighting
circuit to allow things life aerial amps to to be powered.

from the rear of our socket on the landing down inside wall and under
floorboards run of around 6ft then up the inside of cupboard
halfway up wall into 13amp sfu then cable into loft which is run of
around 15-18ft clipping it directly to the wall in cupboard and into
loft then a double switched 13 amp socket from which I want to future
proof and add a 2nd double socket.

If it were just one double socket, then you could do without the FCU
(i.e. it would count as an unfused spur). Its only when you add more
sockets you need the extra fuse.

(Never no might hide away from the
wife and need home cinema kit installed) that's the plan for the
power sockets does that all sound ok? Is there any rule reason not
to use 4mm t&e to spur from socket?

No rule, but also little point usually. If its a 13A fused spur, you
wont need that size cable for the extra current carrying capacity
(2.5mm^2 CSA is rated at 27A when lipped direct to a surface).

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/Cables#Cable_Sizes

Also its harder to work with the thicker cable, and you may find it
difficult getting it into the terminals on the socket if it already has
2 x 2.5mm^2 in each one.

I'm using 1.5mm for the lighting
curcuit. Does this all sound ok or am I seriously missing something?

Lighting circuits are typically wired in 1.0mm^2 or 1.5mm^2 so that is
fine... (there is a fair degree of over specification for lighting
circuits anyway, since even the 1.0mm^2 cable is typically rated at
least that of the MCB on most lighting circuits).



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

replying to John Rumm, Yam man wrote:
Thanks for the help advise will update how I get on. I'm glad there's still
some helpful people out there. Cheers again. I'm adding the fused switch to
the socket spur then in future I just need to add to that is this correct? Is
there limit to the amount of sockets took from fused spur? Thanks again

--
for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/uk-diy...e-1242228-.htm

On 14/10/2017 15:44, Yam man wrote:
replying to John Rumm, Yam man wrote:
Thanks for the help advise will update how I get on. I'm glad there's still
some helpful people out there. Cheers again. I'm adding the fused switch to
the socket spur then in future I just need to add to that is this
correct? Is
there limit to the amount of sockets took from fused spur? Thanks again

You can take any number of sockets from a fused spur, since the fuse
will protect the spur cable from overload. There is a practical limit on
how many sockets you add this way though since you can only support a
maximum of around 3kW total load spread over all the sockets on your
spur. Obviously as a designer you will need to decide what is
appropriate based on the expected use.

With an unfused spur, when you are normally taking the spur in single
run of 2.5mm^2 cable, sing you need some additional overload protection
since the 32A MCB at the origin of the circuit won't do it. So in this
situation you can acquire the required protection simply by limiting the
maximum load that can be placed on the spur - allowing only one single
or one double socket.

You could also extend the ring - which you can do at a single connection
point if you want. Then you can have as many sockets as you want so long
as the total floor area served does not exceed 100m^2:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/...ket_extensions




--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

replying to John Rumm, Yam man wrote:
Hi have jumped ahead with socket install John as I had access to plenty 2.5 MM
cable. I have ran the spur off the socket and ran it around 15 ft under floor
space then up inside cupboard clipped to the inside of door frame and ended in
a 13 amp switched fused unit I am going to run the 2.5 directly up from the
switch through the ceiling into my loft mounted on timbers is 1st double
socket (run of around 14-18ft) which is all metal surface mounted then if I'm
correct I run another length from that to my final socket. Not to sure about
earthing though any input greatly appreciated. I use incoming earth from fused
switch to face plate then fly earth from plate to back boxes is this all sound
correct?

--
for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/uk-diy...e-1242228-.htm

On 14/10/2017 17:44, Yam man wrote:
replying to John Rumm, Yam man wrote: Hi have jumped ahead with
socket install John as I had access to plenty 2.5 MM cable. I have
ran the spur off the socket and ran it around 15 ft under floor space
then up inside cupboard clipped to the inside of door frame and ended
in a 13 amp switched fused unit I am going to run the 2.5 directly
up from the switch through the ceiling into my loft mounted on
timbers is 1st double socket (run of around 14-18ft) which is all
metal surface mounted then if I'm correct I run another length from
that to my final socket. Not to sure about earthing though any input
greatly appreciated. I use incoming earth from fused switch to face
plate then fly earth from plate to back boxes is this all sound
correct?

Yup, you want earth continuity all the way through. Each socket daisy
chained to the next (you can also branch any place it works out more
convenient).

Its generally considered good practice to add a fly lead between one of
the earth terminals on the socket to the earth lug on the back box if it
has one. Remember to use yellow / green sleeving[1] on all the exposed
earth wires - saves any problems with shorts etc as you fold them back
into the boxes.

[1] the 2mm diameter stuff you get from the electrical wholesalers is
easier and neater to use than the more common 3mm stuff you get in most
of the DIY shops. Its also usually better practice to sleeve each earth
independently rather than placing several in one sleeve, since it makes
it easier to separate things later if you need to do so for testing
purposes.

If you wire up all the new sockets before you connect them to your spur,
you can do an easy test by shorting the L, N & E together at the
unconnected cable at the start, then use a multimeter to measure the
resistance between L&N, L&E, and N&E at the last socket. That will tell
you if you have good connections all the way along. For added peace of
mind you can compare the readings you get against the wire resistances
shown he

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/...sistance_table

(note CPC = Circuit Protective Conductor = Earth wire)

They ought to be close to the expected values for the length of cable
you have.





--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

replying to John Rumm, Yam man wrote:
Thanks for that John great stuff I've sorted the light curcuit connection and
is spot on. Have spurred the socket off and under floor inside cupboard and
put the 13amp fused switch (turned off and void of fuse) now tomorrow will run
the sockets then test as advised. Will need to lend multimeter as ones I have
are from old days and BIG chunky Bakelite things. Thanks again

--
for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/uk-diy...e-1242228-.htm

On Saturday, 14 October 2017 22:44:04 UTC+1, Yam man wrote:
replying to John Rumm, Yam man wrote:
Thanks for that John great stuff I've sorted the light curcuit connection and
is spot on. Have spurred the socket off and under floor inside cupboard and
put the 13amp fused switch (turned off and void of fuse) now tomorrow will run
the sockets then test as advised. Will need to lend multimeter as ones I have
are from old days and BIG chunky Bakelite things. Thanks again

A bakelite multimeter should be fine. As is a £2 new one for testing UNpowered mains circuits.


NT

On 14/10/2017 22:44, Yam man wrote:
replying to John Rumm, Yam man wrote:
Thanks for that John great stuff I've sorted the light curcuit
connection and
is spot on. Have spurred the socket off and under floor inside cupboard and
put the 13amp fused switch (turned off and void of fuse) now tomorrow
will run
the sockets then test as advised. Will need to lend multimeter as ones I
have
are from old days and BIG chunky Bakelite things. Thanks again

As long as it has a decent low ohms range will do the job...


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

replying to John Rumm, Yam man wrote:
Hi john can't get lend of multimeter till Friday. Went ahead and fitted both
sockets and the lights both on fused Spurs as explained in previous post. I'm
having a problem over today my wife said the cu is tripping off. It's just
happened whilst I'm home and ther is no breakers tripping off it is the main
switch it is100amps 100ma rcd that is tripping off. I have the newly added
sockets etc all turned off at fused switches I'm stumped any suggestions
greatly appreciated

--
for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/uk-diy...e-1242228-.htm

Yam man wrote:

my wife said the cu is tripping off.

Have you taken your spurs from multiple circuits, e.g. a lighting
circuit and a power circuit?

Have you kept the neutrals for each circuit separate? Not shorted
neutral and earth anywhere?

replying to Andy Burns, Yam man wrote:
Hi Andy yes He has taken 2 fused Spurs from lighting curcuit both 3amp fuses.
He also taken a spur from power curcuit all cables are 100% correct. He is now
in process of going over every connection that he has moved used etc. He has
replaced 4 socket fronts and a back box in kitchen also checked all these. He
is suspicious of the fused spur that is used for washer as when replacing the
switch he says the wires were looking old slightly covered corrosion.

--
for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/uk-diy...e-1242228-.htm

replying to Andy Burns, Yam man wrote:
I've found an earth wire hanging just out of bathroom wall hidden behind
pedestal from sink this morning and pulled it through enough to wrap some
around the cooper pipe supplying my bathroom sink until buying earth clamp
tomorrow can this be some of cause?

--
for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/uk-diy...e-1242228-.htm

replying to Andy Burns, Yam man wrote:
Making sure my lighting curcuit was done correct. I just cut the lighting
cable in loft that runs between my bathroom and my bedroom lights joined them
in a junction box and just wired the fused switch into this. This is correct
yes?

--
for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/uk-diy...e-1242228-.htm

Yam man wrote:

Making sure my lighting curcuit was done correct. I just cut the lighting
cable in loft that runs between my bathroom and my bedroom lights joined them
in a junction box and just wired the fused switch into this. This is correct
yes?

Sounds ok.

Yam man wrote:

He has taken 2 fused Spurs from lighting curcuit both 3amp fuses.
He also taken a spur from power curcuit
If you/he remove the fuses from each of the FCUs, does that stop the
tripping?

On Tuesday, 17 October 2017 22:44:05 UTC+1, Yam man wrote:
replying to Andy Burns, Yam man wrote:
I've found an earth wire hanging just out of bathroom wall hidden behind
pedestal from sink this morning and pulled it through enough to wrap some
around the cooper pipe supplying my bathroom sink until buying earth clamp
tomorrow can this be some of cause?

seems obvious to me that you shouldn't be doing this job until you know what you're doing.

On 17/10/2017 19:44, Yam man wrote:
replying to John Rumm, Yam man wrote:
Hi john can't get lend of multimeter till Friday. Went ahead and fitted
both
sockets and the lights both on fused Spurs as explained in previous
post. I'm
having a problem over today my wife said the cu is tripping off. It's just
happened whilst I'm home and ther is no breakers tripping off it is the
main
switch it is100amps 100ma rcd that is tripping off. I have the newly added
sockets etc all turned off at fused switches I'm stumped any suggestions
greatly appreciated

Are your fused switches single or double pole? If single pole then the
most likely cause is an earth to neutral short on the new wiring
somewhere. That tends to have the effect of causing random RCD trips,
since although both neutral and earth are notionally at the same
potential, the neutral voltage will tend to rise slightly as the load on
the circuits increases - and that can yield enough current flow to
earth, to create an imbalance the RCD can see.



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 17/10/2017 22:44, Yam man wrote:
replying to Andy Burns, Yam man wrote:
I've found an earth wire hanging just out of bathroom wall hidden behind
pedestal from sink this morning and pulled it through enough to wrap some
around the cooper pipe supplying my bathroom sink until buying earth clamp
tomorrow can this be some of cause?

I would not expect a disconnected equipotential bonding wire being
disconnected to cause a RCD trip in the absence of another fault.

See:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/...ng_and_Bonding


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

replying to tabbypurr, Yam man wrote:
That is the reason I' have been asking for info help advise for 3 months now
so I can find out exactly what I'm doing. So if you can tell me what to do
then I can do the job I want to and pretend like most people that I know what
I'm doing. If people who know what to do don't advise then I will never get to
learn. So what should I be doing? The tripping was down to a faulty
connection on my 1 of my downstairs lights the ceiling rose had dropped from
ceiling due to old bath leak we fixed awhile ago. The cables where just say
clamped into the connections real loose and probably contacting I have
replaced this at 1am this morning had no tripping since. So for all those
doubters who say I obviously don't know what I'm doing. YOU ARE WRONG! I've
installed 2 double sockets have 2 lights added to curcuit and all is great.
Thanks to all who helped and boo hoo to those who wouldn't help and doubted
me. Great forum around 90% people really helpful other 10% are just snobby
people thinking they are better then anyone who isn't experts in this matter.

--
for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/uk-diy...e-1242228-.htm

On 18/10/2017 12:44, Yam man wrote:
replying to tabbypurr, Yam man wrote:
That is the reason I' have been asking for info help advise for 3 months
now
so I can find out exactly what I'm doing. So if you can tell me what to do
then I can do the job I want to and pretend like most people that I know
what
I'm doing. If people who know what to do don't advise then I will never
get to
learn. So what should I be doing?

Firstly, chill, don't get too worked up about it. ;-)

This is usenet (the web site you are using is just gateway to it) - and
there are a huge number of people on this group. So there is always
going to be an element of damned if you do, damned if you don't. Some
folks will offer constructive help, others will snipe from the
sidelines, and a few will just want to willy wave. Over a period of time
reading it, you will get to know which names to trust one what subjects.

In my opinion its always better to ask questions if unsure. (its better
to speak first and be thought foolish, rather than act first and prove it!)

When answering questions I will give the questioner the benefit of the
doubt in most cases. However there has been the odd time where the
nature of a question or the way its asked may throw up a warning sign
that the questioner is getting out of their depth, or might be putting
themselves at risk, at which point advising them to slow down a bit can
be worthwhile. So folks are more cautious than me, and will adopt this
kind of response with less provocation.

The tripping was down to a faulty
connection on my 1 of my downstairs lights the ceiling rose had dropped
from
ceiling due to old bath leak we fixed awhile ago. The cables where just say
clamped into the connections real loose and probably contacting I have
replaced this at 1am this morning had no tripping since.

Loose connections alone can on occasion cause nuisance trips, especially
if you get arcing at one of them. Although its unusual to trip a RCD
with a 100mA threshold this way. See the sensitising RCDs section he

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/...nsitising_RCDs

(it sounds like this is a "whole house" RCD, so its possible that the
total leakage of all the circuits combined is soaking up much of its
trip budget)

Once you get your multimeter, do the tests we described before, and also
one the lighting circuit with all the bulbs disconnected or the lamps
switched off, check you read a completely open circuit between L N & E
on the highest resistance range the meter has.

So for all those
doubters who say I obviously don't know what I'm doing. YOU ARE WRONG! I've
installed 2 double sockets have 2 lights added to curcuit and all is great.
Thanks to all who helped and boo hoo to those who wouldn't help and doubted
me. Great forum around 90% people really helpful other 10% are just snobby
people thinking they are better then anyone who isn't experts in this
matter.

Just wait til you get em arguing about politics ;-)



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Wednesday, 18 October 2017 12:44:04 UTC+1, Yam man wrote:
replying to tabbypurr, Yam man wrote:

That is the reason I' have been asking for info help advise for 3 months now
so I can find out exactly what I'm doing. So if you can tell me what to do
then I can do the job I want to and pretend like most people that I know what
I'm doing. If people who know what to do don't advise then I will never get to
learn. So what should I be doing? The tripping was down to a faulty
connection on my 1 of my downstairs lights the ceiling rose had dropped from
ceiling due to old bath leak we fixed awhile ago. The cables where just say
clamped into the connections real loose and probably contacting I have
replaced this at 1am this morning had no tripping since. So for all those
doubters who say I obviously don't know what I'm doing. YOU ARE WRONG! I've
installed 2 double sockets have 2 lights added to curcuit and all is great.
Thanks to all who helped and boo hoo to those who wouldn't help and doubted
me. Great forum around 90% people really helpful other 10% are just snobby
people thinking they are better then anyone who isn't experts in this matter.

Not sure I'd agree with all that. But here's one place to start
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/Category:Electrical


NT

On Tue, 17 Oct 2017 18:44:03 GMT
Yam man m wrote:

can't get lend of multimeter till Friday

How does anyone get by without a multimeter? They're cheap as chips
and useful for anything from checking fuses and batteries to serious
electrical/electronic troubleshooting.
Something like this
https://www.screwfix.com/p/lap-mas83...ter-600v/75337
is good enough for occasional use.

replying to John Rumm, Yam man wrote:
Hi john the fused switches used are all double pole I've checked all my
junctions connections and can't find any problems. I've fitted the 2 double
sockets on fused spur they are metal clad surface mounted single pole double
earthed sockets. I've also replaced 3socket fronts around house as they had
been damaged and needed changed these are single pole double sockets also. So
is this possible the culprit? Thanks for all the help advise you have given. I
don't normally go off on 1 as I seem to have done last night. Really bad day
then came home to find problems with rcd tripping never mind no offence
intended to other persons.

--
for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/uk-diy...e-1242228-.htm

replying to Rob Morley, Yam man wrote:
Rob it's a tool as a mechanic I don't tend to use much rather stick with old
school light testers etc (until all new cars will be ran by software and no
drivers or engine needed) last multimeter I had was lent to a family member or
friend and never returned. I will be getting 1 in near future of my own but
never really had much to do with diy electrics (apart from changing bulbs)
always had someone else do it but time is money and I've saved quite a bit
doing it myself.

--
for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/uk-diy...e-1242228-.htm

replying to John Rumm, Yam man wrote:
Hi John I have traced all my new wiring back and disconnected the fused spur
from my sockets I have removed both fuses from the 2 lights I added. The
tripping got worse to the point last night we couldn't reset it as it tripped
straight off. I've tried switching different breakers on and off it will still
trip even if all breakers off and just main switch rcd on. I fitted 5 new
socket fronts around house at same time and disposed of old 1s. All are single
pole double sockets. I've removed them all and put block connectors and
covered in insulation tape. I'm now got downstairs lights and sockets only and
it still trips. Any ideas insight advise on what I can do greatly appreciated.
Did manage to get multimeter but red prong is missing it's just bear wire to
use. Will get 1 tomorrow morning.

--
for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/uk-diy...e-1242228-.htm

On 21/10/2017 13:14, Yam man wrote:

replying to John Rumm, Yam man wrote: Hi John I have traced all my
new wiring back and disconnected the fused spur from my sockets I
have removed both fuses from the 2 lights I added. The tripping got
worse to the point last night we couldn't reset it as it tripped
straight off. I've tried switching different breakers on and off it
will still trip even if all breakers off and just main switch rcd on.

If its tripping with *all* the MCBs off, then that suggests its most
likely a faulty RCD. (RCDs work by sensing an imbalance between current
flowing in the live and neutral - with all the MCBs off then there
should be no current in either in the absence of some other more
esoteric fault)

You could prove it if you are happy to open the consumer unit itself.

With the main switch off, and all MCBs off, you could disconnect the
neutral out of the RCD where it connects to the neutral bus bar (it will
be a big thick black/blue wire that normally drops out of the bottom of
the RCD and goes up to the bus bar where all the circuit neutrals end).
Then if you switch on the RCD, then the main switch, and still get a
trip, its knackered.

You mentioned that the RCD was one with a 100mA trip threshold... That
seems slightly odd, since you would only normally see that on places
that don't have a proper earth provided by the electricity supplier, and
as a result need to reply on an earth stake (what's known as a TT
system). Is this the only RCD you have or are there others?

If its the only one you have, and you are *not* TT, then its not
actually doing you much benefit anyway (the trip threshold is too high
to protect you from a lethal electric shock). So you could safely simply
bypass it.

Have a look at:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/Earthing_Types

(might be handy if you post some photos of your fuse / meter / CU if so
we can be sure)

I fitted 5 new socket fronts around house at same time and disposed
of old 1s. All are single pole double sockets. I've removed them all
and put block connectors and covered in insulation tape. I'm now got
downstairs lights and sockets only and it still trips. Any ideas
insight advise on what I can do greatly appreciated. Did manage to
get multimeter but red prong is missing it's just bear wire to use.
Will get 1 tomorrow morning.



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

replying to John Rumm, Yam man wrote:
Pics of cu fuse and meter if it helps.the rcd used as main switch on far right
is only 1 that is tripping off.
https://www.homeownershub.com/img/bd
https://www.homeownershub.com/img/be
https://www.homeownershub.com/img/bf

On 21/10/2017 20:14, Yam man wrote:
replying to John Rumm, Yam man wrote:
Pics of cu fuse and meter if it helps.the rcd used as main switch on far
right
is only 1 that is tripping off. https://www.homeownershub.com/img/bd
https://www.homeownershub.com/img/be
https://www.homeownershub.com/img/bf

Ah, good. Thanks for that.

That looks like you have got a classic 16th edition "split load" style
TT install since I can't see any earth connection from the main cutout.
(quite neatly wired in the CU as well)

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/TT_Earthing

The RCD in question is a type "S" which means it also includes a time
delay - this allows discrimination with the 30mA trip RCD you have on
the left hand bank of circuits. (i.e. if there is a earth fault that
causes 150mA of leakage on one of the left hand circuits, the delay
gives chance for the 30mA device to clear the fault first without
tripping the upstream RCD)

So given that, you *can't* just bridge out the RCD since there is no
guarantee that your earth impedance is low enough to clear a fault on
the right hand side bank of circuits without it.

If you are still getting a trip with all the MCBs off (and other RCD),
then its still likely to be a faulty RCD.

There is one other possible cause, and that would be if you have N to E
short circuit - probably on the lighting circuit you have been
extending. If this fault is combined with a slight voltage rise on the
neutral of your supply (which can be caused either by your own load on
it, or a neighbours), then you can get a trip because a little bit of
current flows through the neutral of the RCD to earth, and that is not
balanced by equal current in the live.

You could test for this by measuring the resistance between your
rightmost neutral bus bar, and the earth bus bar (with everything turned
off obviously). If you get a low resistance, then disconnect the neutral
wire into terminal 2 on the right most neutral bar, and measure the
resistance to earth from that in isolation (i.e. testing just the
circuit you know you have been working on).

(Note I am assuming its been wired with the neutrals into the numbered
position matching that of the corresponding MCB!).

If you wanted to test the main RCD just on its own, again everything
switched off. Disconnect the two thick wires into the two right hand
terminals of the right hand neutral bus bar, tape the ends just so they
are not flapping about, and turn the main switch on again. If it trips
then it must be faulty.


A suitable replacement would be something like:

https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Product...100slash2.html

(note however replacing that would mean pulling the main switch in order
to work safely since you have no other way of turning off those live
meter tails coming into the top of it)

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/