On 20/06/17 21:36, michael adams wrote:
The question of the UK financial settlement, along with an
agreement on the rights of expats on both sides of the Channel
will be the first two items that will be settled in the talks,
which will begin in earnest next month.


ROFL

As if that is ever going to work,

"First of all sir Peter, we will decide on what you can afford to pay,
and then we will tell you what car we are going to sell you*"

They may be items on te agenda, but they cant be settled without
reference to the whole package.

If you believe otherwise, you are even more of a simpleton than you at
first appear.

We KNOW what is going to happen. No deal. Because no deal is possible.

The EU has to save face by making impossible demands and we cant afford
to give in to them so in two years there will be no deal and we will
walk away.

All that is happening now is to prepare the ground for that.

And you cant take a vote on whether no deal is a good deal or not can you?

*https://soundcloud.com/forza360/sir-peters-new-car



--
Of what good are dead warriors? €¦ Warriors are those who desire battle
more than peace. Those who seek battle despite peace. Those who thump
their spears on the ground and talk of honor. Those who leap high the
battle dance and dream of glory €¦ The good of dead warriors, Mother, is
that they are dead.
Sheri S Tepper: The Awakeners.

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
news ,

it will be a pleasure to watch and well worth £300 a year on me taxes.

Which in two and a half years time, will be the equivalent of about £1.45p
in today's money.


michael adams

....

michael adams wrote
Rod Speed wrote
michael adams wrote
TheChief wrote
michael adams wrote
Cursitor Doom wrote
michael adams wrote

Then, when on day one of the negotiations when it became clear that
there would otherwise be no talks, Davis immediately caved in.

That’s a lie.

Nothink to worry about. All they've done is agree to fix the "leaving
fee" til later; that's all.

Precisely the opposite, I'm afraid. That's the whole point

quote

The question of the UK financial settlement, along with an
agreement on the rights of expats on both sides of the Channel
will be the first two items that will be settled in the talks,
which will begin in earnest next month.

/quote

Just because some fool claims something...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017...day-one-talks/

Basically until the UK agrees to pay them what they think they're due,
regardless of whether anyone else thinks this is fair or not, they're
not going to negotiate on anything else.

They have in fact already negotiated and
agreed on when they would meet etc.

This was the fait accompli which Davis was presented with on Monday
morning.

That ****wit journo has no basis for that claim.

If you read the article some of the sums being mentioned
as compo are simply staggering i.e 100 billion

And there is no legal basis for ANY exit fee whatever.

It's maybe no wonder a lot of people are trying to play this down.

The EU position was nothing is agreed till everything is agreed.

Er no. As explained above

That’s a CLAIM, not an explanation, and its just plain wrong.

agreement has first to be reached on the amount of the divorce
settlement, plus EU citizens rights.

That’s just the EU ambit claim with no legal basis what so ever.

snipped the usual rubbish

You never could bull**** your way out of a wet paper bag.

You still don't get it, do you ?

Noting to get.

The whole point of this thread, is that that is exactly what David Davis
has already agreed to.

He has in fact done nothing of the sort.

On the first day of the "negotiations".

Ditto.

Which part of

quote

The question of the UK financial settlement, along with an agreement on
the rights of expats on both sides of the Channel will be the first two
items that will be settled in the talks, which will begin in earnest next
month.

/quote

Just because some fool journo claims something...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017...-one-talks/are
you having the most difficulty with ?To repeat: David Davis has already
agreed that the amount of thedivorce settlement and the citizenship rights
of expats will firstneed to be settled before moving onto anything
else.Now quite possibly Davis already realises that the UK won'tbe able to
reach any agreement on these, so that the nexttwo years are going to be a
bit of a charade.By which time of course, the Pound Sterling will be
tradingat around US 15cmichael adams...

Just because some fool journo claims something...

Britain hasn’t even agreed that there is even any legal basis for ANY exit
fee.

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
news
On 20/06/17 21:36, michael adams wrote:
The question of the UK financial settlement, along with an
agreement on the rights of expats on both sides of the Channel
will be the first two items that will be settled in the talks,
which will begin in earnest next month.


ROFL

As if that is ever going to work,


But that's what David Davis, Britains ex SAS Chief Negotiator, agreed to on Monday.

Don't say the penny is finally beginning to drop ?


michael adams

....

"Mark" wrote in message ...

On Tue, 20 Jun 2017 15:51:58 +0100, "Richard"
wrote:

"Mark" wrote in message
. ..

On Tue, 20 Jun 2017 15:08:48 +0100, "Richard"
wrote:

"Mark" wrote in message
m...

On Tue, 20 Jun 2017 12:22:43 +0100, "michael adams"
wrote:

Though nobody would have guessed it, formal
Brexit negotiations started yesterday. With
an immediate climb-down by David Davis.

All from the Telegraph, this NG's newspaper of choice

I thought this NGs newspaper of choice was "The Sun" or "The Express".
The more intellectual may puruse the Mail, but they do struggle with
words of more than one syllable. ;-)

Indeed.
The literacy standards are poor. Some struggle with simple spellings.
Perchance they attempt to feign superior intellectual abilities, they
blast
the **** out of their foot by being unable to correctly spell "peruse".
However, the observation about words exceeding single syllable
complexity
is proven to be totally accurate in the aforementioned example.

How many marks do I lose, teacher?

It would be unfair to take one from you, we'd have to call you blemish.

Your ignorance is apparent.

Shucks.

"michael adams" wrote in message
o.uk...

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
news
On 20/06/17 20:35, michael adams wrote:
"Bill" wrote in message
...
In message , michael
adams
writes
Basically until the UK agrees to pay them what they think they're due,
regardless of
whether anyone else thinks this is fair or not, they're not going to
negotiate on
anything else.

This was the fait accompli which Davis was presented with on Monday
morning.

If you read the article some of the sums being mentioned as compo are
simply staggering
i.e 100 billion

It's maybe no wonder a lot of people are trying to play this down.

So the EU position is "Pay us 100 billion or you have to stay in our
cartel (club or
whatever)"?

Any sane person would treat this as a wind up or insanity.

Hardly. This has been on the cards, since before the
referendum.

According to them, us leaving will cost them 10 billion
per annum. Which without looking it up, may well correspond
with the figure many were suggesring as the amount the
UK would save per year, by leaving.

Then they're further claiming that its going to take them
a good 10 years to get over the initial shock.

Basically if they hired a good divorce lawyer to argue
their case they might even get it up to 30 years.

With the UK paying their costs, on top.


michael adams

...

The idiocy you espouse seems to be based on some weird assumption that
we will be subject to EU law once we leave the EU.

So which part of what David Davis agreed to yesterday

He did nothing of the sort.

quote

The question of the UK financial settlement, along with an
agreement on the rights of expats on both sides of the Channel
will be the first two items that will be settled in the talks,
which will begin in earnest next month.

/quote

Just because some fool journo claims something...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017...-one-talks/are
you having the most difficulty with ?

All this happens before we leave the EU. Not afterwards.

You don’t know that either if Britain decides that no agreement is possible.

The fact that you also seem to favour the Robert Mugabe option, regardless
of the consequences for the Pound Sterling comes as no real surprise.

Even sillier than you usually manage. If Britain chooses to leave the
EU after deciding that no agreement is possible with the EU having
no legal basis what so ever for any exit fee at all, that would have
no significant effect on the pound and might even see it do quite
well given that Britain would be leaving owing nothing at all.

"michael adams" wrote in message
o.uk...

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
news ,

it will be a pleasure to watch and well worth £300 a year on me taxes.

Which in two and a half years time, will be the equivalent of about £1.45p
in today's money.

Gunna put your money where you mouth is on that, boy ?

In USD too.

"michael adams" wrote in message
...

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
news
On 20/06/17 21:36, michael adams wrote:
The question of the UK financial settlement, along with an
agreement on the rights of expats on both sides of the Channel
will be the first two items that will be settled in the talks,
which will begin in earnest next month.


ROFL

As if that is ever going to work,


But that's what David Davis, Britains ex SAS Chief Negotiator, agreed to
on Monday.

He did nothing of the sort. And in fact asked the EU
what legal basis there was for any exit fee what so ever.

On 20/06/17 21:51, michael adams wrote:
"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
news ,

it will be a pleasure to watch and well worth �300 a year on me taxes.

Which in two and a half years time, will be the equivalent of about �1.45p
in today's money.

Silly little boy.

Only Germany of any European nation has achieved that scale of inflation.

Only Germany gassed 5 million jews and assorted other races.

Only Germany managed to start a war on two fronts against Russia as well
as Britain and snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

While the rest of Europe simply let them get on with it.,

And the yanks did a deal with the nazis so they all carried on being
public officials after the war and even got their full pensions.

Sigh.

I mean there is naive, michael, and there is criminally stupid.


--
"If you dont read the news paper, you are un-informed. If you read the
news paper, you are mis-informed."

Mark Twain

On 20/06/17 21:54, michael adams wrote:
"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
news
On 20/06/17 21:36, michael adams wrote:
The question of the UK financial settlement, along with an
agreement on the rights of expats on both sides of the Channel
will be the first two items that will be settled in the talks,
which will begin in earnest next month.


ROFL

As if that is ever going to work,


But that's what David Davis, Britains ex SAS Chief Negotiator, agreed to on Monday.

Only in your mind., Michael. Take some ovaltine in warm milk and have a
little rest

Tomorrow it will all be just a dream




--
Ideas are more powerful than guns. We would not let our enemies have
guns, why should we let them have ideas?

Josef Stalin

"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...


"michael adams" wrote in message
...

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
news
On 20/06/17 21:36, michael adams wrote:
The question of the UK financial settlement, along with an
agreement on the rights of expats on both sides of the Channel
will be the first two items that will be settled in the talks,
which will begin in earnest next month.


ROFL

As if that is ever going to work,


But that's what David Davis, Britains ex SAS Chief Negotiator, agreed to on Monday.

He did nothing of the sort. And in fact asked the EU
what legal basis there was for any exit fee what so ever.

Dear me.

The two aren't mutually exclusive.

It's been agreed by Davis that any financial settlement, which may well
include discussions concerning the legal basis if any for such charges,
will be settled, along with the expat question, before moving on to
other areas.

If you can't even understand simple stuff like this, how can you
possibly understand the more complicated questions ?


michael adams

....

michael adams wrote
Rod Speed wrote
michael adams wrote
The Natural Philosopher wrote
michael adams wrote

The question of the UK financial settlement, along with an agreement
on the rights of expats on both sides of the Channel will be the first
two items that will be settled in the talks, which will begin in
earnest next month.

ROFL

As if that is ever going to work,

But that's what David Davis, Britains ex SAS Chief Negotiator, agreed to
on Monday.

He did nothing of the sort. And in fact asked the EU
what legal basis there was for any exit fee what so ever.

Dear me.

Cheap you, actually.

The two aren't mutually exclusive.

Even sillier than you usually manage.

It's been agreed by Davis that any financial settlement, which may well
include discussions concerning the legal basis if any for such charges,
will be settled, along with the expat question, before moving on to other
areas.

He has in fact done nothing of the sort and
that ****wit journo didn’t even say that either.

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
news
On 20/06/17 21:51, michael adams wrote:
"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
news ,

it will be a pleasure to watch and well worth ?300 a year on me taxes.

Which in two and a half years time, will be the equivalent of about ?1.45p
in today's money.

Silly little boy.

Only Germany of any European nation has achieved that scale of inflation.

Hint: If you're trying to impress people by citing lists of the facts
at your fingertips, it helps if the first fact you happen to cite isn't
as load of old cobblers.

As far from being the only example in Europe, the German hyperinflation
wasn't even the worst.

quote

The pengo was the currency of Hungary between 1 January 1927, when
it replaced 'the korona, and 31 July 1946, when it was replaced by
the forint.
The pengo lost value after World War II, suffering the highest rate
of hyperinflation ever recorded. There were several attempts to break
down inflation, such as a 75% capital levy in December 1945. However,
this did not stop the hyperinflation, and prices continued spiraling
out of control, with ever-higher denominations introduced.
The denominations milpengo (1,000,000 pengo), b.-pengo (pronunciation:
bilpengo,1,000,000,000 pengo) and one trillion pengo (1,000,000,000,000
pengo) were used to alleviate calculations, cut down the number of zeros
and enable the reuse of banknote designs with only the colour and
denomination name changed.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungar...Hyperinflation

quote

Oh dear !

It looks as though "Every Boy's Book of Knowledge" has landed you
in the soup again !


snipped list of irrelevent facts

I mean there is naive, michael, and there is criminally stupid.

Whether it counts as naive or criminally stupid to not spend 5 seconds
on checking one's facts before posting, especially the FIRST fact
in your list, I'll leave it for you to decide. Oh Wise One.


michael adams

....

In article ,
michael adams wrote:

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
michael adams wrote:

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
news
Guardian writes can spell but they cant think


Now if only everything else you posted on this NewsGroup, made as much
sense as that does !

You're wasted on here. Have you tried Twitter ?

Ever wonder why it is called the Grauniad?

Because it was notorious for spooling miktases

Indeed, I was actually aware of that.

OK - some things do get forgotten.

Perhaps you'd now care to explain exactly what your friend
meant by his rather cryptic utterance -

"Guardian writes can spell..."

I'd say it rather a long time since anyone understood everything Turnip
writes. Even himself.

As I must admit that its deeper meaning, as there clearly must be
one, has so far escaped me.

In your own time.



michael adams

...

--
*Prepositions are not words to end sentences with *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"TheChief" wrote in message
news
"michael adams" Wrote in message:

"Cursitor Doom" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 20 Jun 2017 12:22:43 +0100, michael adams wrote:

Then, when on day one of the negotiations when it became clear that
there would otherwise be no talks, Davis immediately caved in.

Nothink to worry about. All they've done is agree to fix the "leaving
fee" til later; that's all.

Precisely the opposite, I'm afraid. That's the whole point

quote

The question of the UK financial settlement, along with an
agreement on the rights of expats on both sides of the Channel
will be the first two items that will be settled in the talks,
which will begin in earnest next month.

/quote



http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017...day-one-talks/

Basically until the UK agrees to pay them what they
think they're due, regardless of whether anyone else
thinks this is fair or not, they're not going to
negotiate on anything else.

This was the fait accompli which Davis was presented
with on Monday morning.

If you read the article some of the sums being mentioned
as compo are simply staggering i.e 100 billion

It's maybe no wonder a lot of people are trying to
play this down.

The EU position was nothing is agreed till everything is agreed.
So DD accepts some sort of silly settlement now then renages
later when further into talks with some suitable legalise excuse.

Great way to get a final agreement.

Makes a lot more sense to just say that there is no legal
basis for any exit fee and tell the EU to like that or lump it.

"Bill" wrote in message
...
In message , michael
adams writes
Basically until the UK agrees to pay them what they think they're due,
regardless of whether anyone else thinks this is fair or not, they're not
going to negotiate on anything else.

This was the fait accompli which Davis was presented with on Monday
morning.

If you read the article some of the sums being mentioned as compo are
simply staggering i.e 100 billion

It's maybe no wonder a lot of people are trying to play this down.

So the EU position is "Pay us 100 billion or you have to stay in our
cartel (club or whatever)"?

Nope, that unless Britain agrees to pay some as yet unspecified
exit fee, there will be no negotiation on anything else except
the rights of EU citizens already in Britain.

And Davis has just said that there is no legal basis for any
exit fee and May will be announcing what legal rights EU
citizens will have in Britain after it has left next week.

Any sane person would treat this as a wind up or insanity.

Having fun thrashing that straw man ?

michael adams wrote:
"Bill" wrote in message
...
In message , michael adams
writes
Basically until the UK agrees to pay them what they think they're due, regardless of
whether anyone else thinks this is fair or not, they're not going to negotiate on
anything else.

This was the fait accompli which Davis was presented with on Monday morning.

If you read the article some of the sums being mentioned as compo are simply staggering
i.e 100 billion

It's maybe no wonder a lot of people are trying to play this down.

So the EU position is "Pay us 100 billion or you have to stay in our cartel (club or
whatever)"?

Any sane person would treat this as a wind up or insanity.

Hardly. This has been on the cards, since before the
referendum.

According to them, us leaving will cost them 10 billion
per annum. Which without looking it up, may well correspond
with the figure many were suggesring as the amount the
UK would save per year, by leaving.

Then they're further claiming that its going to take them
a good 10 years to get over the initial shock.

Basically if they hired a good divorce lawyer to argue
their case they might even get it up to 30 years.

With the UK paying their costs, on top.


michael adams

...



Look at history, treaties are made to be broken!

michael adams wrote:
"TheChief" wrote in message news
"michael adams" Wrote in message:

"Cursitor Doom" wrote in message
news On Tue, 20 Jun 2017 12:22:43 +0100, michael adams wrote:

Then, when on day one of the negotiations when it became clear that
there would otherwise be no talks, Davis immediately caved in.

Nothink to worry about. All they've done is agree to fix the "leaving
fee" til later; that's all.

Precisely the opposite, I'm afraid. That's the whole point

quote

The question of the UK financial settlement, along with an
agreement on the rights of expats on both sides of the Channel
will be the first two items that will be settled in the talks,
which will begin in earnest next month.

/quote



http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017...day-one-talks/

Basically until the UK agrees to pay them what they
think they're due, regardless of whether anyone else
thinks this is fair or not, they're not going to
negotiate on anything else.

This was the fait accompli which Davis was presented
with on Monday morning.

If you read the article some of the sums being mentioned
as compo are simply staggering i.e 100 billion

It's maybe no wonder a lot of people are trying to
play this down.



michael adams

...








The EU position was nothing is agreed till everything is agreed.

Er no. As explained above agreement has first to be reached
on the amount of the divorce settlement, plus EU citizens
rights. Only after that will the EU agree to start talks
on other things including trade, the CAP, fisheries,
customs etc, etc.



So DD accepts some sort of silly settlement now then renages later
when further into talks with some suitable legalise excuse.

But that's not really an option. As given the bad faith already in
evidence, these agreements will be drafted so tightly as to leave
no possible scope for any wriggle room at all.

While reneging on any agreement would simply relegate the Pound
s#Sterling to the same level, both in terms of value and credibility
as the Zimbabwean Dollar. It took Robert Mugabe years to achieve
what the UK could manage within days.



michael adams

...




I just love an ignorant optimist!

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 20/06/17 21:36, michael adams wrote:
The question of the UK financial settlement, along with an
agreement on the rights of expats on both sides of the Channel
will be the first two items that will be settled in the talks,
which will begin in earnest next month.


ROFL

As if that is ever going to work,

"First of all sir Peter, we will decide on what you can afford to pay,
and then we will tell you what car we are going to sell you*"

They may be items on te agenda, but they cant be settled without
reference to the whole package.

If you believe otherwise, you are even more of a simpleton than you at
first appear.

We KNOW what is going to happen. No deal. Because no deal is possible.

The EU has to save face by making impossible demands and we cant afford
to give in to them so in two years there will be no deal and we will
walk away.

All that is happening now is to prepare the ground for that.

And you cant take a vote on whether no deal is a good deal or not can you?

*https://soundcloud.com/forza360/sir-peters-new-car




It is not possible for him to look more of a simpleton!

bert wrote:
In article , michael
adams writes

"Cursitor Doom" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 20 Jun 2017 12:22:43 +0100, michael adams wrote:

Then, when on day one of the negotiations when it became clear that
there would otherwise be no talks, Davis immediately caved in.

Nothink to worry about. All they've done is agree to fix the "leaving
fee" til later; that's all.

Precisely the opposite, I'm afraid. That's the whole point

quote

The question of the UK financial settlement, along with an
agreement on the rights of expats on both sides of the Channel
will be the first two items that will be settled in the talks,
which will begin in earnest next month.

/quote



http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017...lock-horns-bre
xit-bill-day-one-talks/

Basically until the UK agrees to pay them what they
think they're due, regardless of whether anyone else
thinks this is fair or not, they're not going to
negotiate on anything else.

What nonsense. The UK has asked them to explain the legal basis for
their claim. Despite the fact they knew our position they couldn't give
an answer. They are so besotted with their own bull**** it never occurs
to them to check out the other sides arguments. They have to stick with
their terms of reference. That's why negotiating anything with the EU
takes so long.
This was the fait accompli which Davis was presented
with on Monday morning.

You are so naive.
If you read the article some of the sums being mentioned
as compo are simply staggering i.e 100 billion

On the other hand our own legal experts say there is no obligation in
law to pay anything. So which do you believe?
It's maybe no wonder a lot of people are trying to
play this down.


Who us trying to play down what? It's been discussed ad nauseum.

michael adams

...








He is just a Remoaner troll spouting propaganda.

On Tuesday, 20 June 2017 20:14:30 UTC+1, Bill wrote:
In message , michael
adams writes
Basically until the UK agrees to pay them what they think they're due,
regardless of whether anyone else thinks this is fair or not, they're
not going to negotiate on anything else.

This was the fait accompli which Davis was presented with on Monday
morning.

If you read the article some of the sums being mentioned as compo are
simply staggering i.e 100 billion

It's maybe no wonder a lot of people are trying to play this down.

So the EU position is "Pay us 100 billion or you have to stay in our
cartel (club or whatever)"?

But the 100 billion was just a down payment wasn;t it.
They are just like any other blackmailer.


Any sane person would treat this as a wind up or insanity.

I'd chage them rent on the EU buildings we helped to pay for.

100 Billion a day excluding VAT of course. If they don't like it
what will they do knock them down ?

In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
On Tuesday, 20 June 2017 20:14:30 UTC+1, Bill wrote:
In message , michael
adams writes
Basically until the UK agrees to pay them what they think they're due,
regardless of whether anyone else thinks this is fair or not, they're
not going to negotiate on anything else.

This was the fait accompli which Davis was presented with on Monday
morning.

If you read the article some of the sums being mentioned as compo are
simply staggering i.e 100 billion

It's maybe no wonder a lot of people are trying to play this down.

So the EU position is "Pay us 100 billion or you have to stay in our
cartel (club or whatever)"?

But the 100 billion was just a down payment wasn;t it.
They are just like any other blackmailer.

We were the country which flounced out of the EU without checking on what
it might cost first. If the EU can calculate any monies owed after we
leave, so can we and query them if inaccurate.


Any sane person would treat this as a wind up or insanity.

I'd chage them rent on the EU buildings we helped to pay for.

Excellent. But not pay for the running costs?

100 Billion a day excluding VAT of course. If they don't like it
what will they do knock them down ?

Because you 'helped pay' for something doesn't mean you own the whole
thing.

--
*I wonder how much deeper the ocean would be without sponges*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Tim Streater wrote:
In article , Dave Plowman (News)
wrote:

In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
On Tuesday, 20 June 2017 20:14:30 UTC+1, Bill wrote:
In message ,
michael adams writes
Basically until the UK agrees to pay them what they think they're
due, regardless of whether anyone else thinks this is fair or
not, they're not going to negotiate on anything else.

This was the fait accompli which Davis was presented with on
Monday morning.

If you read the article some of the sums being mentioned as compo
are simply staggering i.e 100 billion

It's maybe no wonder a lot of people are trying to play this down.

So the EU position is "Pay us 100 billion or you have to stay in
our cartel (club or whatever)"?

But the 100 billion was just a down payment wasn;t it. They are just
like any other blackmailer.

We were the country which flounced out of the EU ...

There you are flouncing again. You've no doubt told the 17million Leave
voters that you consider them to be flouncers, have you?

It describes the action perfectly. Following Farage who constantly waves
his arms around.

--
*Change is inevitable, except from a vending machine.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Wednesday, 21 June 2017 14:44:47 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
On Tuesday, 20 June 2017 20:14:30 UTC+1, Bill wrote:
In message , michael
adams writes
Basically until the UK agrees to pay them what they think they're due,
regardless of whether anyone else thinks this is fair or not, they're
not going to negotiate on anything else.

This was the fait accompli which Davis was presented with on Monday
morning.

If you read the article some of the sums being mentioned as compo are
simply staggering i.e 100 billion

It's maybe no wonder a lot of people are trying to play this down.

So the EU position is "Pay us 100 billion or you have to stay in our
cartel (club or whatever)"?

But the 100 billion was just a down payment wasn;t it.
They are just like any other blackmailer.

We were the country which flounced out of the EU without checking on what
it might cost first.

Maybe we werenl;t expecting it to cost anything to leave such clubs usually cost money to join but not to leave. If the EU can calculate any monies owed after we
leave, so can we and query them if inaccurate.

When peole leave employment either retiring or to go elsewhere you don't have to pay to leave. Why would you expect to pay to leave. ?

Of course yuo could ask the EU to show where it states that any country leaving must pay a leaving fee, if there's n o such thing does that still mean we have to pay.


Any sane person would treat this as a wind up or insanity.

I'd chage them rent on the EU buildings we helped to pay for.

Excellent. But not pay for the running costs?

Do you pay for the running costs of your car when you sell it on.
Do you pay the running costs of a house when you sell it and move on.




100 Billion a day excluding VAT of course. If they don't like it
what will they do knock them down ?

Because you 'helped pay' for something doesn't mean you own the whole
thing.

Exactly so what is the 100 billion for ?
if you join a football club or any other club is those in the club want a new facility, there's an option of everyone 'clubbing' together to pay for it.
if after a few years you leave that club or die do you have to pay for teh next thing the club wants.

I've a better idea when you buy a car you pay road tax, when you sell the car you still have to pay road tax for that car for teh rest of yuor life, yuo did afterall agree to pay road tax by buying it in the first place so yuo have NO reason not to pay that tax for that car for teh rest of yuor life, and of course after the money will be taken from your estate every year.
if yuo should buy another car you'll pay tax on that too and you'll keep paying for the rest of your life.

Oh and we wonlt tell you how much tax we are adding in to the road tax either, you agreed to havce a car and yuo drove it on a road, so you pay for the rest of yuor life or don't you think roads need repairing after you die ?

In article , Capitol
writes
michael adams wrote:
"Bill" wrote in message
...
In message ,
michael adams
writes
Basically until the UK agrees to pay them what they think they're
due, regardless of
whether anyone else thinks this is fair or not, they're not going
to negotiate on
anything else.

This was the fait accompli which Davis was presented with on Monday
morning.

If you read the article some of the sums being mentioned as compo
are simply staggering
i.e 100 billion

It's maybe no wonder a lot of people are trying to play this down.

So the EU position is "Pay us 100 billion or you have to stay in our
cartel (club or
whatever)"?

Any sane person would treat this as a wind up or insanity.

Hardly. This has been on the cards, since before the
referendum.

According to them, us leaving will cost them 10 billion
per annum. Which without looking it up, may well correspond
with the figure many were suggesring as the amount the
UK would save per year, by leaving.

Then they're further claiming that its going to take them
a good 10 years to get over the initial shock.

Basically if they hired a good divorce lawyer to argue
their case they might even get it up to 30 years.

With the UK paying their costs, on top.


michael adams

...



Look at history, treaties are made to be broken!
And once one withdraws from a treaty all obligations cease.
--
bert

In article , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
On Tuesday, 20 June 2017 20:14:30 UTC+1, Bill wrote:
In message , michael
adams writes
Basically until the UK agrees to pay them what they think they're due,
regardless of whether anyone else thinks this is fair or not, they're
not going to negotiate on anything else.

This was the fait accompli which Davis was presented with on Monday
morning.

If you read the article some of the sums being mentioned as compo are
simply staggering i.e 100 billion

It's maybe no wonder a lot of people are trying to play this down.

So the EU position is "Pay us 100 billion or you have to stay in our
cartel (club or whatever)"?

But the 100 billion was just a down payment wasn;t it.
They are just like any other blackmailer.

We were the country which flounced out of the EU without checking on what
it might cost first. If the EU can calculate any monies owed after we
leave, so can we and query them if inaccurate.


Any sane person would treat this as a wind up or insanity.

I'd chage them rent on the EU buildings we helped to pay for.

Excellent. But not pay for the running costs?

100 Billion a day excluding VAT of course. If they don't like it
what will they do knock them down ?

Because you 'helped pay' for something doesn't mean you own the whole
thing.

No but we own part share and we would like our share please - which
means them buying us out or selling the building to a third party and
splitting the proceeds pro rata.
All this talk of 100bn is just posturing. The EU want us to contribute
to the pensions of UK citizens who are employees of the EU. They want us
to continue our budget payments up to the end of the current budget
cycle rather than ceasing payment when we leave. Of course they would
like us to carry on paying for on-going projects which continue beyond
the current budget cycle.
In the words of MT, No No and No.
--
bert

On Wed, 21 Jun 2017 07:54:51 -0700, whisky-dave wrote:

When peole leave employment either retiring or to go elsewhere you don't
have to pay to leave. Why would you expect to pay to leave. ?

It's funny, because I don't recall us charging this ungrateful bunch of
parasites a single penny for liberating them from Hitler's boot heel.
Perhaps a retrospective charge for same might now be in order?

In article , michael
adams writes

"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...


"michael adams" wrote in message
o.uk...

"TheChief" wrote in message
news "michael adams" Wrote in message:

"Cursitor Doom" wrote in message
news On Tue, 20 Jun 2017 12:22:43 +0100, michael adams wrote:

Then, when on day one of the negotiations when it became clear that
there would otherwise be no talks, Davis immediately caved in.

Nothink to worry about. All they've done is agree to fix the "leaving
fee" til later; that's all.

Precisely the opposite, I'm afraid. That's the whole point

quote

The question of the UK financial settlement, along with an
agreement on the rights of expats on both sides of the Channel
will be the first two items that will be settled in the talks,
which will begin in earnest next month.

/quote




http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017...ope-lock-horns
-brexit-bill-day-one-talks/

Basically until the UK agrees to pay them what they
think they're due, regardless of whether anyone else
thinks this is fair or not, they're not going to
negotiate on anything else.

This was the fait accompli which Davis was presented
with on Monday morning.

If you read the article some of the sums being mentioned
as compo are simply staggering i.e 100 billion

It's maybe no wonder a lot of people are trying to
play this down.



michael adams

...








The EU position was nothing is agreed till everything is agreed.

Er no. As explained above

Thats a CLAIM, not an explanation, and its just plain wrong.

agreement has first to be reached on the amount of the divorce
settlement, plus EU
citizens rights.

Thats just the EU ambit claim with no legal basis what so ever.


snipped the usual rubbish

You still don't get it, do you ?

The whole point of this thread, is that that is exactly what David
Davis has already agreed to. On the first day of the "negotiations".

Which part of

quote

The question of the UK financial settlement, along with an
agreement on the rights of expats on both sides of the Channel
will be the first two items that will be settled in the talks,
which will begin in earnest next month.

/quote

Exactly -Settled!! And as an opener we have asked them to explain the
legal basis of their claim - which seemed to take them aback.
No legal basis - matter settled
Next item.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017...lock-horns-bre
xit-bill-day-one-talks/are you having the most difficulty with ?To
repeat: David Davis has already agreed that the amount of thedivorce
settlement and the citizenship rights of expats will firstneed to be
settled before moving onto anything else.Now quite possibly Davis
already realises that the UK won'tbe able to reach any agreement on
these, so that the nexttwo years are going to be a bit of a charade.By
which time of course, the Pound Sterling will be tradingat around US
15cmichael adams...


--
bert

In article , michael
adams writes

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
news
On 20/06/17 21:36, michael adams wrote:
The question of the UK financial settlement, along with an
agreement on the rights of expats on both sides of the Channel
will be the first two items that will be settled in the talks,
which will begin in earnest next month.


ROFL

As if that is ever going to work,


But that's what David Davis, Britains ex SAS Chief Negotiator, agreed
to on Monday.

Don't say the penny is finally beginning to drop ?

They agreed to settle - they didn't agree to pay anything.

I don't hold out much hope of any penny dropping as far as you are
concerned.
michael adams

...



--
bert

In article ,
bert wrote:

[Snip]

And once one withdraws from a treaty all obligations cease.

treaties are rarely one sided. If one side withdraws, the other side might
retalliate.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England

In article , michael
adams writes

"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...


"michael adams" wrote in message
...

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
news On 20/06/17 21:36, michael adams wrote:
The question of the UK financial settlement, along with an
agreement on the rights of expats on both sides of the Channel
will be the first two items that will be settled in the talks,
which will begin in earnest next month.


ROFL

As if that is ever going to work,


But that's what David Davis, Britains ex SAS Chief Negotiator,
agreed to on Monday.

He did nothing of the sort. And in fact asked the EU
what legal basis there was for any exit fee what so ever.

Dear me.

The two aren't mutually exclusive.


It's been agreed by Davis that any financial settlement, which may well
include discussions concerning the legal basis if any for such charges,
will be settled, along with the expat question, before moving on to
other areas.

If you can't even understand simple stuff like this, how can you
possibly understand the more complicated questions ?


michael adams

...


If you can't even understand simple stuff like this, how can you
possibly understand the more complicated questions ?

--
bert

In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
When peole leave employment either retiring or to go elsewhere you don't
have to pay to leave. Why would you expect to pay to leave. ?

They would do if they had a loan from their employer. Or perhaps to top up
a pension fund.

You don't really expect the EU to pay Farage's pension out of 'their'
pocket, do you?

--
*Never kick a cow pat on a hot day *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
charles wrote:
In article ,
bert wrote:

[Snip]

And once one withdraws from a treaty all obligations cease.

treaties are rarely one sided. If one side withdraws, the other side
might retalliate.

With the level of EU bureaucracy, it would be odd if such likely leaving
costs weren't documented somewhere. As a principle, rather than sum. But
just the sort of thing Brexiteers would keep very quiet about.

--
*Virtual reality is its own reward*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Wed, 21 Jun 2017 15:44:26 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom
wrote:

On Wed, 21 Jun 2017 07:54:51 -0700, whisky-dave wrote:

When peole leave employment either retiring or to go elsewhere you don't
have to pay to leave. Why would you expect to pay to leave. ?

It's funny, because I don't recall us charging this ungrateful bunch of
parasites a single penny for liberating them from Hitler's boot heel.
Perhaps a retrospective charge for same might now be in order?

Oh didn't realise you were that old, or are you like a lot of those
born in the immediate years after WW2 who exhibit a tendency possibly
brought on by passing bomb sites on the way to school to think that
they themselves took an active part and bask in the actions of those
10 to 15 years older than themselves who did fight it for real rather
than between a Messerschmit and a Spitfire made from Airfix kits.
Most of the liberating from Hitler was done by the US and the Soviet
Union.

It's the same generation that grew up with the benefits of the new
NHS, and many of which have benefited from free further education,
relatively cheap housing some if it bought under the right to buy
council houses ,decent company pension schemes ,not a few getting
large redundancy packages along the way and are now retired with a bus
pass and winter fuel payments muttering in puzzlement why many of
todays young people have chosen to vote labour for a bit of hope.
They have seen what a **** up the greedy post war generation has made
of the UK under governments of all colours. It has been in their
working lifetimes that immigration started ,industry was allowed to
collapse and oil revenue squandered.
But it was always down to bad management or the Unions never the fault
of them actually being selfish *******s who are now old selfish
****ers probably called Bert and wearing a Cardigan and still mentally
fighting the Germans like Daddy did.

G.Harman

In article ,
wrote:
It's the same generation that grew up with the benefits of the new
NHS, and many of which have benefited from free further education,
relatively cheap housing some if it bought under the right to buy
council houses ,decent company pension schemes ,not a few getting
large redundancy packages along the way and are now retired with a bus
pass and winter fuel payments muttering in puzzlement why many of
todays young people have chosen to vote labour for a bit of hope.

Quite. But not all of them. ;-)

They have seen what a **** up the greedy post war generation has made
of the UK under governments of all colours. It has been in their
working lifetimes that immigration started ,industry was allowed to
collapse and oil revenue squandered.
But it was always down to bad management or the Unions never the fault
of them actually being selfish *******s who are now old selfish
****ers probably called Bert and wearing a Cardigan and still mentally
fighting the Germans like Daddy did.

Rather despaired of there being anyone on this group who would ever talk
so much sense.

Luckily, it's about as representative of the UK as the EDL.

--
*I'm not being rude. You're just insignificant

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

in 1601997 20170621 133107 whisky-dave wrote:
On Tuesday, 20 June 2017 20:14:30 UTC+1, Bill wrote:
In message , michael
adams writes
Basically until the UK agrees to pay them what they think they're due,
regardless of whether anyone else thinks this is fair or not, they're
not going to negotiate on anything else.

This was the fait accompli which Davis was presented with on Monday
morning.

If you read the article some of the sums being mentioned as compo are
simply staggering i.e 100 billion

It's maybe no wonder a lot of people are trying to play this down.

So the EU position is "Pay us 100 billion or you have to stay in our
cartel (club or whatever)"?

But the 100 billion was just a down payment wasn;t it.
They are just like any other blackmailer.


Any sane person would treat this as a wind up or insanity.

I'd chage them rent on the EU buildings we helped to pay for.

Can I charge rent on all the UK buildings that my taxes have helped pay for?


100 Billion a day excluding VAT of course. If they don't like it
what will they do knock them down ?

On Wed, 21 Jun 2017 07:54:51 -0700 (PDT), whisky-dave
wrote:

When peole leave employment either retiring or to go elsewhere you don't have to pay to leave. Why would you expect to pay to leave. ?

Of course yuo could ask the EU to show where it states that any country leaving must pay a leaving fee, if there's n o such thing does that still mean we have to pay.

Many legal contracts have exit fees and/or penalty clauses for
terminating the contract.

On Wednesday, 21 June 2017 17:28:59 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
When peole leave employment either retiring or to go elsewhere you don't
have to pay to leave. Why would you expect to pay to leave. ?

They would do if they had a loan from their employer. Or perhaps to top up
a pension fund.

Then show those signed documents.
If it;s a pension fund then we should be getting money back we paid in, that's how pentions work.
But we know that germany has bigger pensions problems than the UK and most of teh EU, it happened after unification, the eastern block didn't have 'pensions'
So what is the solution mass immingration.


You don't really expect the EU to pay Farage's pension out of 'their'
pocket, do you?

That depends on what he and they have signed up for, if he has been paying into a pention fund like I do, I expect to get that money back and he should too.

But it seems the aim is for the UK to pay for German pensions.

On Thursday, 22 June 2017 07:12:47 UTC+1, Bob Martin wrote:
in 1601997 20170621 133107 whisky-dave wrote:
On Tuesday, 20 June 2017 20:14:30 UTC+1, Bill wrote:
In message , michael
adams writes
Basically until the UK agrees to pay them what they think they're due,
regardless of whether anyone else thinks this is fair or not, they're
not going to negotiate on anything else.

This was the fait accompli which Davis was presented with on Monday
morning.

If you read the article some of the sums being mentioned as compo are
simply staggering i.e 100 billion

It's maybe no wonder a lot of people are trying to play this down.

So the EU position is "Pay us 100 billion or you have to stay in our
cartel (club or whatever)"?

But the 100 billion was just a down payment wasn;t it.
They are just like any other blackmailer.


Any sane person would treat this as a wind up or insanity.

I'd chage them rent on the EU buildings we helped to pay for.

Can I charge rent on all the UK buildings that my taxes have helped pay for?

So you agree that any building that falls down or needs replacing you should pay for. So how much should you pay for the rebuilding of the twin towers or whatever they replace them with ?
Maybe UK citizens should pay for Trumps wall too after all we did 'own' america a couple of hundred years ago so surely we should still be paying then or should they be paying us.

When countries left the commonwealth we didn't ask them to pay us money for leaving did we.

if Scotland decide the leave the UK how much should we charge scotland to leave ?

Mark posted
On Wed, 21 Jun 2017 07:54:51 -0700 (PDT), whisky-dave
wrote:

When peole leave employment either retiring or to go elsewhere you
don't have to pay to leave. Why would you expect to pay to leave. ?

Of course yuo could ask the EU to show where it states that any
country leaving must pay a leaving fee, if there's n o such thing does
that still mean we have to pay.

Many legal contracts have exit fees and/or penalty clauses for
terminating the contract.


But not this one.


--
Jack