Though nobody would have guessed it, formal
Brexit negotiations started yesterday. With
an immediate climb-down by David Davis.

All from the Telegraph, this NG's newspaper of choice

quote

Britain and Europe lock horns over
'Brexit bill' on day one of talks

[...]

Mr Davis denied that the UK government had caved in to EU demands
to settle money and citizens' rights before talking trade terms, even though
these will now not be discussed until October at the very earliest.

[...]

It did not take long for the mask to slip, however, with Mr Barnier striking
an exasperated tone at the end of a long day's talks, when asked if the EU has
made any significant concessions to the British - given that the UK had agree
to all the EU's demands over the schedule for the talks.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017...day-one-talks/

/quote

Basically the position is this. Prior to these "negotiations" Davis and
others were insisting that talks on trade and citizenship would not be
conditional on the UK first having to agree on the amount the UK would
be required to pay in order to leave the UK. Never mind questioning its
legality. The UK would be setting the agenda.

Then, when on day one of the negotiations when it became clear that there
would otherwise be no talks, Davis immediately caved in.

To repeat (from the Telegraph)

" given that the UK had agree [d] to all the EU's demands over the schedule
for the talks"

"Agreed to demands". If this is Davis's "tough" negotiating stance
one wonders what he's like on an off day.


michael adams

....

On Tue, 20 Jun 2017 12:22:43 +0100, "michael adams"
wrote:

Though nobody would have guessed it, formal
Brexit negotiations started yesterday. With
an immediate climb-down by David Davis.

All from the Telegraph, this NG's newspaper of choice

I thought this NGs newspaper of choice was "The Sun" or "The Express".
The more intellectual may puruse the Mail, but they do struggle with
words of more than one syllable. ;-)

On 20/06/2017 12:22, michael adams wrote:
Though nobody would have guessed it, formal
Brexit negotiations started yesterday. With
an immediate climb-down by David Davis.

All from the Telegraph, this NG's newspaper of choice

quote

Britain and Europe lock horns over
'Brexit bill' on day one of talks

[...]

Mr Davis denied that the UK government had caved in to EU demands
to settle money and citizens' rights before talking trade terms, even though
these will now not be discussed until October at the very earliest.

[...]

It did not take long for the mask to slip, however, with Mr Barnier striking
an exasperated tone at the end of a long day's talks, when asked if the EU has
made any significant concessions to the British - given that the UK had agree
to all the EU's demands over the schedule for the talks.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017...day-one-talks/

/quote

Basically the position is this. Prior to these "negotiations" Davis and
others were insisting that talks on trade and citizenship would not be
conditional on the UK first having to agree on the amount the UK would
be required to pay in order to leave the UK. Never mind questioning its
legality. The UK would be setting the agenda.

Then, when on day one of the negotiations when it became clear that there
would otherwise be no talks, Davis immediately caved in.

To repeat (from the Telegraph)

" given that the UK had agree [d] to all the EU's demands over the schedule
for the talks"

"Agreed to demands". If this is Davis's "tough" negotiating stance
one wonders what he's like on an off day.


michael adams

...





What else can he do, we were stupid enough to say leave and they have
all the cards.

The truth is that the UK is far worse off out of the EU than the EU is
without the UK whatever the brexit****ters claim.

Just look at the brexit****ters claims that all the EU countries were
just dying to vote to leave and what happened in France.

In article ,
Mark wrote:
On Tue, 20 Jun 2017 12:22:43 +0100, "michael adams"
wrote:

Though nobody would have guessed it, formal
Brexit negotiations started yesterday. With
an immediate climb-down by David Davis.

All from the Telegraph, this NG's newspaper of choice

I thought this NGs newspaper of choice was "The Sun" or "The Express".
The more intellectual may puruse the Mail, but they do struggle with
words of more than one syllable. ;-)

They'll all deny it though. Never quite sure why so many right wingers
seem to be ashamed of their organs. ;-)

--
*42.7% of statistics are made up. Sorry, that should read 47.2% *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Tim Streater wrote:
In article , Mark
wrote:

On Tue, 20 Jun 2017 12:22:43 +0100, "michael adams"
wrote:

Though nobody would have guessed it, formal
Brexit negotiations started yesterday. With
an immediate climb-down by David Davis.

All from the Telegraph, this NG's newspaper of choice

I thought this NGs newspaper of choice was "The Sun" or "The Express".

Some people here suffer from proof-by-assertion syndrome. So they
assert what the NG's paper of choice is, and others are fool enough to
believe it.

Generally, if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck...

--
*Marriage changes passion - suddenly you're in bed with a relative*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Mark" wrote in message ...

On Tue, 20 Jun 2017 12:22:43 +0100, "michael adams"
wrote:

Though nobody would have guessed it, formal
Brexit negotiations started yesterday. With
an immediate climb-down by David Davis.

All from the Telegraph, this NG's newspaper of choice

I thought this NGs newspaper of choice was "The Sun" or "The Express".
The more intellectual may puruse the Mail, but they do struggle with
words of more than one syllable. ;-)

Indeed.
The literacy standards are poor. Some struggle with simple spellings.
Perchance they attempt to feign superior intellectual abilities, they blast
the **** out of their foot by being unable to correctly spell "peruse".
However, the observation about words exceeding single syllable complexity
is proven to be totally accurate in the aforementioned example.
So, which do you read, Mark?

On 20/06/17 15:08, Richard wrote:
"Mark" wrote in message ...

On Tue, 20 Jun 2017 12:22:43 +0100, "michael adams"
wrote:

Though nobody would have guessed it, formal
Brexit negotiations started yesterday. With
an immediate climb-down by David Davis.

All from the Telegraph, this NG's newspaper of choice

I thought this NGs newspaper of choice was "The Sun" or "The Express".
The more intellectual may puruse the Mail, but they do struggle with
words of more than one syllable. ;-)

Indeed.
The literacy standards are poor. Some struggle with simple spellings.
Perchance they attempt to feign superior intellectual abilities, they
blast the **** out of their foot by being unable to correctly spell
"peruse".
However, the observation about words exceeding single syllable
complexity is proven to be totally accurate in the aforementioned example.
So, which do you read, Mark?

Guardian writes can spell but they cant think


--
Truth welcomes investigation because truth knows investigation will lead
to converts. It is deception that uses all the other techniques.

"Tim Streater" wrote in message
.. .
In article , Mark
wrote:

On Tue, 20 Jun 2017 12:22:43 +0100, "michael adams"
wrote:

Though nobody would have guessed it, formal
Brexit negotiations started yesterday. With
an immediate climb-down by David Davis.

All from the Telegraph, this NG's newspaper of choice

I thought this NGs newspaper of choice was "The Sun" or "The Express".

Some people here suffer from proof-by-assertion syndrome.

Which very neatly sums up the position taken by David Davis and any
other member of the Govt when asked about the forthcoming EU negotiations.

"This is going to happen, and then that is going to happen......"

And then on day one, all that SAS training, and pep talks from Teresa
seem to have come to naught. Oh dear !

No answers to the substantive point of course, as is only to be expected.


michael adams

....

On Tue, 20 Jun 2017 15:08:48 +0100, "Richard"
wrote:

"Mark" wrote in message ...

On Tue, 20 Jun 2017 12:22:43 +0100, "michael adams"
wrote:

Though nobody would have guessed it, formal
Brexit negotiations started yesterday. With
an immediate climb-down by David Davis.

All from the Telegraph, this NG's newspaper of choice

I thought this NGs newspaper of choice was "The Sun" or "The Express".
The more intellectual may puruse the Mail, but they do struggle with
words of more than one syllable. ;-)

Indeed.
The literacy standards are poor. Some struggle with simple spellings.
Perchance they attempt to feign superior intellectual abilities, they blast
the **** out of their foot by being unable to correctly spell "peruse".
However, the observation about words exceeding single syllable complexity
is proven to be totally accurate in the aforementioned example.

How many marks do I lose, teacher?

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
news

Guardian writes can spell but they cant think


Now if only everything else you posted on this NewsGroup, made as much
sense as that does !

You're wasted on here. Have you tried Twitter ?


michael adams

....

"Mark" wrote in message ...

On Tue, 20 Jun 2017 15:08:48 +0100, "Richard"
wrote:

"Mark" wrote in message
. ..

On Tue, 20 Jun 2017 12:22:43 +0100, "michael adams"
wrote:

Though nobody would have guessed it, formal
Brexit negotiations started yesterday. With
an immediate climb-down by David Davis.

All from the Telegraph, this NG's newspaper of choice

I thought this NGs newspaper of choice was "The Sun" or "The Express".
The more intellectual may puruse the Mail, but they do struggle with
words of more than one syllable. ;-)

Indeed.
The literacy standards are poor. Some struggle with simple spellings.
Perchance they attempt to feign superior intellectual abilities, they
blast
the **** out of their foot by being unable to correctly spell "peruse".
However, the observation about words exceeding single syllable complexity
is proven to be totally accurate in the aforementioned example.

How many marks do I lose, teacher?

It would be unfair to take one from you, we'd have to call you blemish.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...

In article ,
Tim Streater wrote:
In article , Mark
wrote:

On Tue, 20 Jun 2017 12:22:43 +0100, "michael adams"
wrote:

Though nobody would have guessed it, formal
Brexit negotiations started yesterday. With
an immediate climb-down by David Davis.

All from the Telegraph, this NG's newspaper of choice

I thought this NGs newspaper of choice was "The Sun" or "The Express".

Some people here suffer from proof-by-assertion syndrome. So they
assert what the NG's paper of choice is, and others are fool enough to
believe it.

Generally, if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck...

.... it has way more sense than Plowman.

On Tue, 20 Jun 2017 15:51:58 +0100, "Richard"
wrote:

"Mark" wrote in message ...

On Tue, 20 Jun 2017 15:08:48 +0100, "Richard"
wrote:

"Mark" wrote in message
...

On Tue, 20 Jun 2017 12:22:43 +0100, "michael adams"
wrote:

Though nobody would have guessed it, formal
Brexit negotiations started yesterday. With
an immediate climb-down by David Davis.

All from the Telegraph, this NG's newspaper of choice

I thought this NGs newspaper of choice was "The Sun" or "The Express".
The more intellectual may puruse the Mail, but they do struggle with
words of more than one syllable. ;-)

Indeed.
The literacy standards are poor. Some struggle with simple spellings.
Perchance they attempt to feign superior intellectual abilities, they
blast
the **** out of their foot by being unable to correctly spell "peruse".
However, the observation about words exceeding single syllable complexity
is proven to be totally accurate in the aforementioned example.

How many marks do I lose, teacher?

It would be unfair to take one from you, we'd have to call you blemish.

Your ignorance is apparent.

dennis@home wrote:
On 20/06/2017 12:22, michael adams wrote:
Though nobody would have guessed it, formal
Brexit negotiations started yesterday. With
an immediate climb-down by David Davis.

All from the Telegraph, this NG's newspaper of choice

quote

Britain and Europe lock horns over
'Brexit bill' on day one of talks

[...]

Mr Davis denied that the UK government had caved in to EU demands
to settle money and citizens' rights before talking trade terms, even
though
these will now not be discussed until October at the very earliest.

[...]

It did not take long for the mask to slip, however, with Mr Barnier
striking
an exasperated tone at the end of a long day's talks, when asked if
the EU has
made any significant concessions to the British - given that the UK
had agree
to all the EU's demands over the schedule for the talks.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017...day-one-talks/


/quote

Basically the position is this. Prior to these "negotiations" Davis and
others were insisting that talks on trade and citizenship would not be
conditional on the UK first having to agree on the amount the UK would
be required to pay in order to leave the UK. Never mind questioning its
legality. The UK would be setting the agenda.

Then, when on day one of the negotiations when it became clear that there
would otherwise be no talks, Davis immediately caved in.

To repeat (from the Telegraph)

" given that the UK had agree [d] to all the EU's demands over the
schedule
for the talks"

"Agreed to demands". If this is Davis's "tough" negotiating stance
one wonders what he's like on an off day.


michael adams

...





What else can he do, we were stupid enough to say leave and they have
all the cards.

The truth is that the UK is far worse off out of the EU than the EU is
without the UK whatever the brexit****ters claim.

Just look at the brexit****ters claims that all the EU countries were
just dying to vote to leave and what happened in France.

I love Remoaning propaganda!

In article ,
michael adams wrote:

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
news

Guardian writes can spell but they cant think


Now if only everything else you posted on this NewsGroup, made as much
sense as that does !

You're wasted on here. Have you tried Twitter ?

Ever wonder why it is called the Grauniad?

Because it was notorious for spooling miktases

--
*On the other hand, you have different fingers*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
michael adams wrote:

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
news

Guardian writes can spell but they cant think


Now if only everything else you posted on this NewsGroup, made as much
sense as that does !

You're wasted on here. Have you tried Twitter ?

Ever wonder why it is called the Grauniad?

Because it was notorious for spooling miktases

Indeed, I was actually aware of that.

Perhaps you'd now care to explain exactly what your friend
meant by his rather cryptic utterance -

"Guardian writes can spell..."

As I must admit that its deeper meaning, as there clearly must be
one, has so far escaped me.

In your own time.



michael adams

....

"michael adams" Wrote in message:

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
news

Guardian writes can spell but they cant think


Now if only everything else you posted on this NewsGroup, made as much
sense as that does !

You're wasted on here. Have you tried Twitter ?


michael adams

...

Spelt "****ter"...

--
Jim K


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

On Tue, 20 Jun 2017 12:22:43 +0100, michael adams wrote:

Then, when on day one of the negotiations when it became clear that
there would otherwise be no talks, Davis immediately caved in.

Nothink to worry about. All they've done is agree to fix the "leaving
fee" til later; that's all. That then leaves it open at the end of the 2
years to offer them some derisory sum just to let the EU save face. IMO,
however, that "sum" - nominal one pound would suffice - should be passing
from them to us, since we run a trade deficit with them.
Essentially we're holding all the cards and no one has caved in on
anything.

On Tue, 20 Jun 2017 13:38:43 +0100, Tim Streater wrote:

Some people here suffer from proof-by-assertion syndrome. So they assert
what the NG's paper of choice is, and others are fool enough to believe
it.

I'm proud to say I haven't read *any* newspaper for decades. What a waste
of ****ing time they are!

On Tue, 20 Jun 2017 14:03:43 +0100, dennis@home wrote:

What else can he do, we were stupid enough to say leave and they have
all the cards.

WTF??? ROTFLMAO!!!!

The truth is that the UK is far worse off out of the EU than the EU is
without the UK whatever the brexit****ters claim.

You've been spending too much time listening to the BBC, mate. :-D


Just look at the brexit****ters claims that all the EU countries were
just dying to vote to leave and what happened in France.

Who cares? The really important deal at this precise moment is the talks
between the CP and the UDP. Looks like they may well flounder. If they do
break up and the reason turns out to be something daft like over gay
weddings or something, I don't think *true* Conservatives, wherever they
may be, will *ever* forgive the Party for it. Ever!

On Tue, 20 Jun 2017 18:10:39 +0100, Capitol wrote:

I love Remoaning propaganda!

Yeah, those good old Remoanists, you can't keep 'em down. ;-)

If they - the EU mafia - get a whiff of weakness from our side then at
the end of this process we'll be up to our armpits in all that criminal
riff-raff now building up in Calaise again. We'll never be able to walk
our steets again in safety if they cave in on immigration. I don't
believe they will; just sayin', that's all.

"Cursitor Doom" wrote in message news
On Tue, 20 Jun 2017 12:22:43 +0100, michael adams wrote:

Then, when on day one of the negotiations when it became clear that
there would otherwise be no talks, Davis immediately caved in.

Nothink to worry about. All they've done is agree to fix the "leaving
fee" til later; that's all.

Precisely the opposite, I'm afraid. That's the whole point

quote

The question of the UK financial settlement, along with an
agreement on the rights of expats on both sides of the Channel
will be the first two items that will be settled in the talks,
which will begin in earnest next month.

/quote



http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017...day-one-talks/

Basically until the UK agrees to pay them what they
think they're due, regardless of whether anyone else
thinks this is fair or not, they're not going to
negotiate on anything else.

This was the fait accompli which Davis was presented
with on Monday morning.

If you read the article some of the sums being mentioned
as compo are simply staggering i.e 100 billion

It's maybe no wonder a lot of people are trying to
play this down.



michael adams

....

In message , michael
adams writes
Basically until the UK agrees to pay them what they think they're due,
regardless of whether anyone else thinks this is fair or not, they're
not going to negotiate on anything else.

This was the fait accompli which Davis was presented with on Monday
morning.

If you read the article some of the sums being mentioned as compo are
simply staggering i.e 100 billion

It's maybe no wonder a lot of people are trying to play this down.

So the EU position is "Pay us 100 billion or you have to stay in our
cartel (club or whatever)"?

Any sane person would treat this as a wind up or insanity.
--
Bill

"Cursitor Doom" wrote in message news
On Tue, 20 Jun 2017 14:03:43 +0100, dennis@home wrote:

What else can he do, we were stupid enough to say leave and they have
all the cards.

WTF??? ROTFLMAO!!!!

The truth is that the UK is far worse off out of the EU than the EU is
without the UK whatever the brexit****ters claim.

You've been spending too much time listening to the BBC, mate. :-D


Just look at the brexit****ters claims that all the EU countries were
just dying to vote to leave and what happened in France.

Who cares? The really important deal at this precise moment is the talks
between the CP and the UDP. Looks like they may well flounder. If they do
break up and the reason turns out to be something daft like over gay
weddings or something,

Not only that. At the moment the Northern Ireland Assembly
is suspended because the two main parties the DUP and Sinn Fein
can't agree. One bone of contention is the role of the DUP leader Arlene
Foster in the "Cash for Ash" scandal. Anywhere but in N.I and she
would have had no choice, but to resign.

According to the GFA when the NI Assembly is suspended for whatever
reason then there's direct rule from Westminster by whatever Govt is in
power, However if the DUP is part of that Govt then Direct Rule by that Govt
can no longer seen to be impartial and in accordance with either the spirit
or the letter of the GFA

michael adams

....

On 20/06/2017 20:15, TheChief wrote:

So DD accepts some sort of silly settlement now then renages later
when further into talks with some suitable legalise
excuse.


That would really help our future negotiations with other countries.

"Bill" wrote in message
...
In message , michael adams
writes
Basically until the UK agrees to pay them what they think they're due, regardless of
whether anyone else thinks this is fair or not, they're not going to negotiate on
anything else.

This was the fait accompli which Davis was presented with on Monday morning.

If you read the article some of the sums being mentioned as compo are simply staggering
i.e 100 billion

It's maybe no wonder a lot of people are trying to play this down.

So the EU position is "Pay us 100 billion or you have to stay in our cartel (club or
whatever)"?

Any sane person would treat this as a wind up or insanity.

Hardly. This has been on the cards, since before the
referendum.

According to them, us leaving will cost them 10 billion
per annum. Which without looking it up, may well correspond
with the figure many were suggesring as the amount the
UK would save per year, by leaving.

Then they're further claiming that its going to take them
a good 10 years to get over the initial shock.

Basically if they hired a good divorce lawyer to argue
their case they might even get it up to 30 years.

With the UK paying their costs, on top.


michael adams

....

"TheChief" wrote in message news
"michael adams" Wrote in message:

"Cursitor Doom" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 20 Jun 2017 12:22:43 +0100, michael adams wrote:

Then, when on day one of the negotiations when it became clear that
there would otherwise be no talks, Davis immediately caved in.

Nothink to worry about. All they've done is agree to fix the "leaving
fee" til later; that's all.

Precisely the opposite, I'm afraid. That's the whole point

quote

The question of the UK financial settlement, along with an
agreement on the rights of expats on both sides of the Channel
will be the first two items that will be settled in the talks,
which will begin in earnest next month.

/quote



http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017...day-one-talks/

Basically until the UK agrees to pay them what they
think they're due, regardless of whether anyone else
thinks this is fair or not, they're not going to
negotiate on anything else.

This was the fait accompli which Davis was presented
with on Monday morning.

If you read the article some of the sums being mentioned
as compo are simply staggering i.e 100 billion

It's maybe no wonder a lot of people are trying to
play this down.



michael adams

...








The EU position was nothing is agreed till everything is agreed.

Er no. As explained above agreement has first to be reached
on the amount of the divorce settlement, plus EU citizens
rights. Only after that will the EU agree to start talks
on other things including trade, the CAP, fisheries,
customs etc, etc.



So DD accepts some sort of silly settlement now then renages later
when further into talks with some suitable legalise excuse.

But that's not really an option. As given the bad faith already in
evidence, these agreements will be drafted so tightly as to leave
no possible scope for any wriggle room at all.

While reneging on any agreement would simply relegate the Pound
s#Sterling to the same level, both in terms of value and credibility
as the Zimbabwean Dollar. It took Robert Mugabe years to achieve
what the UK could manage within days.



michael adams

....

"michael adams" wrote in message
o.uk...

"Bill" wrote in message
...
In message , michael
adams writes
Basically until the UK agrees to pay them what they think they're due,
regardless of whether anyone else thinks this is fair or not, they're not
going to negotiate on anything else.

This was the fait accompli which Davis was presented with on Monday
morning.

If you read the article some of the sums being mentioned as compo are
simply staggering i.e 100 billion

It's maybe no wonder a lot of people are trying to play this down.

So the EU position is "Pay us 100 billion or you have to stay in our
cartel (club or whatever)"?

Any sane person would treat this as a wind up or insanity.

Hardly. This has been on the cards, since before the referendum.

Nope.

According to them, us leaving will cost them 10 billion
per annum. Which without looking it up, may well correspond with the
figure many were suggesring as the amount the UK would save per year, by
leaving.

And the EU gets to like that or lump it.

They have no capacity what so ever to say that Britain
doesn’t get to leave unless they continue to pay that.

Then they're further claiming that its going to take them a good 10 years
to get over the initial shock.

That’s likely correct, and they get to like that or lump that too.

Basically if they hired a good divorce lawyer to argue
their case they might even get it up to 30 years.

With the UK paying their costs, on top.

Leaving the EU doesn’t work like that. Once Article 50
has been triggered, and it has already, there are 2 years
for negotiations and even no agreement is reached in that
time Britain leaves and the EU gets to like that or lump it.

Nothing even remotely like a divorce, legally.

There isnt even a decision on who
gets what assets wise with Article 50.

"michael adams" wrote in message
o.uk...

"TheChief" wrote in message
news
"michael adams" Wrote in message:

"Cursitor Doom" wrote in message
news On Tue, 20 Jun 2017 12:22:43 +0100, michael adams wrote:

Then, when on day one of the negotiations when it became clear that
there would otherwise be no talks, Davis immediately caved in.

Nothink to worry about. All they've done is agree to fix the "leaving
fee" til later; that's all.

Precisely the opposite, I'm afraid. That's the whole point

quote

The question of the UK financial settlement, along with an
agreement on the rights of expats on both sides of the Channel
will be the first two items that will be settled in the talks,
which will begin in earnest next month.

/quote



http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017...day-one-talks/

Basically until the UK agrees to pay them what they
think they're due, regardless of whether anyone else
thinks this is fair or not, they're not going to
negotiate on anything else.

This was the fait accompli which Davis was presented
with on Monday morning.

If you read the article some of the sums being mentioned
as compo are simply staggering i.e 100 billion

It's maybe no wonder a lot of people are trying to
play this down.



michael adams

...








The EU position was nothing is agreed till everything is agreed.

Er no. As explained above

That’s a CLAIM, not an explanation, and its just plain wrong.

agreement has first to be reached on the amount of the divorce settlement,
plus EU citizens rights.

That’s just the EU ambit claim with no legal basis what so ever.

Only after that will the EU agree to start talks on other things including
trade, the CAP, fisheries, customs etc, etc.

And if no agreement is reached in 2 years, Britain is
out regardless and the EU gets to like that or lump it.

So DD accepts some sort of silly settlement now then renages later when
further into talks with some suitable legalise excuse.

But that's not really an option.

Corse it is. Britain is free to leave the EU
with no agreement at all on anything.

As given the bad faith already in evidence, these agreements will be
drafted so tightly as to leave
no possible scope for any wriggle room at all.

Britain doesn’t have to agree to anything at all.

While reneging on any agreement

There doesn’t have to be any agreement at all.

would simply relegate the Pound s#Sterling to the same level, both in
terms of value and credibility as the Zimbabwean Dollar. It took Robert
Mugabe years to achieve what the UK could manage within days.

Even sillier and more pig ignorant than you usually manage.

In article , michael
adams writes

"Cursitor Doom" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 20 Jun 2017 12:22:43 +0100, michael adams wrote:

Then, when on day one of the negotiations when it became clear that
there would otherwise be no talks, Davis immediately caved in.

Nothink to worry about. All they've done is agree to fix the "leaving
fee" til later; that's all.

Precisely the opposite, I'm afraid. That's the whole point

quote

The question of the UK financial settlement, along with an
agreement on the rights of expats on both sides of the Channel
will be the first two items that will be settled in the talks,
which will begin in earnest next month.

/quote



http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017...lock-horns-bre
xit-bill-day-one-talks/

Basically until the UK agrees to pay them what they
think they're due, regardless of whether anyone else
thinks this is fair or not, they're not going to
negotiate on anything else.

What nonsense. The UK has asked them to explain the legal basis for
their claim. Despite the fact they knew our position they couldn't give
an answer. They are so besotted with their own bull**** it never occurs
to them to check out the other sides arguments. They have to stick with
their terms of reference. That's why negotiating anything with the EU
takes so long.
This was the fait accompli which Davis was presented
with on Monday morning.

You are so naive.
If you read the article some of the sums being mentioned
as compo are simply staggering i.e 100 billion

On the other hand our own legal experts say there is no obligation in
law to pay anything. So which do you believe?
It's maybe no wonder a lot of people are trying to
play this down.


Who us trying to play down what? It's been discussed ad nauseum.

michael adams

...







--
bert

In article , TheChief
writes
"dennis@home" Wrote in message:
On 20/06/2017 20:15, TheChief wrote:

So DD accepts some sort of silly settlement now then renages later
when further into talks with some suitable legalise
excuse.


That would really help our future negotiations with other countries.


It'll take a lot of trade to recoup the 100Bn Euros the EUSSR are
trying to screw us for.
"Trying" being the operative word
--
bert

"michael adams" Wrote in message:

"Cursitor Doom" wrote in message news
On Tue, 20 Jun 2017 12:22:43 +0100, michael adams wrote:

Then, when on day one of the negotiations when it became clear that
there would otherwise be no talks, Davis immediately caved in.

Nothink to worry about. All they've done is agree to fix the "leaving
fee" til later; that's all.

Precisely the opposite, I'm afraid. That's the whole point

quote

The question of the UK financial settlement, along with an
agreement on the rights of expats on both sides of the Channel
will be the first two items that will be settled in the talks,
which will begin in earnest next month.

/quote



http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017...day-one-talks/

Basically until the UK agrees to pay them what they
think they're due, regardless of whether anyone else
thinks this is fair or not, they're not going to
negotiate on anything else.

This was the fait accompli which Davis was presented
with on Monday morning.

If you read the article some of the sums being mentioned
as compo are simply staggering i.e 100 billion

It's maybe no wonder a lot of people are trying to
play this down.



michael adams

...








The EU position was nothing is agreed till everything is agreed.
So DD accepts some sort of silly settlement now then renages later
when further into talks with some suitable legalise
excuse.
--


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

"dennis@home" Wrote in message:
On 20/06/2017 20:15, TheChief wrote:

So DD accepts some sort of silly settlement now then renages later
when further into talks with some suitable legalise
excuse.


That would really help our future negotiations with other countries.


It'll take a lot of trade to recoup the 100Bn Euros the EUSSR are
trying to screw us for.
--


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

In article , michael
adams writes

"Bill" wrote in message
...
In message ,
michael adams
writes
Basically until the UK agrees to pay them what they think they're
due, regardless of
whether anyone else thinks this is fair or not, they're not going to
negotiate on
anything else.

This was the fait accompli which Davis was presented with on Monday morning.

If you read the article some of the sums being mentioned as compo are
simply staggering
i.e 100 billion

It's maybe no wonder a lot of people are trying to play this down.

So the EU position is "Pay us 100 billion or you have to stay in our
cartel (club or
whatever)"?

Any sane person would treat this as a wind up or insanity.

Hardly. This has been on the cards, since before the
referendum.

According to them, us leaving will cost them 10 billion
per annum. Which without looking it up, may well correspond
with the figure many were suggesring as the amount the
UK would save per year, by leaving.

Then they're further claiming that its going to take them
a good 10 years to get over the initial shock.

Basically if they hired a good divorce lawyer to argue
their case they might even get it up to 30 years.

With the UK paying their costs, on top.


michael adams

...


This is not a divorce, it's the rescinding of treaties. Suggest you go
and look up the appropriate treaties on the rescinding of treaties.
--
bert

"michael adams" wrote in message
o.uk...

"Cursitor Doom" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 20 Jun 2017 12:22:43 +0100, michael adams wrote:

Then, when on day one of the negotiations when it became clear that
there would otherwise be no talks, Davis immediately caved in.

Nothink to worry about. All they've done is agree to fix the "leaving
fee" til later; that's all.

Precisely the opposite, I'm afraid.

We'll see...

That's the whole point

We'll see...

quote

The question of the UK financial settlement, along with an agreement on
the rights of expats on both sides of the Channel will be the first two
items that will be settled in the talks, which will begin in earnest next
month.

/quote

Just because some fool claims something...


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017...day-one-talks/

Basically until the UK agrees to pay them what they
think they're due, regardless of whether anyone else
thinks this is fair or not, they're not going to
negotiate on anything else.

We'll see...

This was the fait accompli which Davis was presented with on Monday
morning.

You have no idea if that is true or not.

If you read the article some of the sums being mentioned
as compo are simply staggering i.e 100 billion

Just because some fool journo claims something...

It's maybe no wonder a lot of people are trying to play this down.

Or its just more **** spouted by some journo that doesn’t have a ****ing
clue.

On 20/06/17 19:52, michael adams wrote:
"Cursitor Doom" wrote in message news
On Tue, 20 Jun 2017 12:22:43 +0100, michael adams wrote:

Then, when on day one of the negotiations when it became clear that
there would otherwise be no talks, Davis immediately caved in.

Nothink to worry about. All they've done is agree to fix the "leaving
fee" til later; that's all.

Precisely the opposite, I'm afraid. That's the whole point

quote

The question of the UK financial settlement, along with an
agreement on the rights of expats on both sides of the Channel
will be the first two items that will be settled in the talks,
which will begin in earnest next month.

/quote



http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017...day-one-talks/

Basically until the UK agrees to pay them what they
think they're due, regardless of whether anyone else
thinks this is fair or not, they're not going to
negotiate on anything else.

This was the fait accompli which Davis was presented
with on Monday morning.

If you read the article some of the sums being mentioned
as compo are simply staggering i.e 100 billion

It's maybe no wonder a lot of people are trying to
play this down.



michael adams

...



Well we can always walk out and just say 'no deal is worth what they
wanted to charge us: we can afford to subsidise imports and exports for
40 years with that sum of money'







--
Renewable energy: Expensive solutions that don't work to a problem that
doesn't exist instituted by self legalising protection rackets that
don't protect, masquerading as public servants who don't serve the public.

On 20/06/17 20:35, michael adams wrote:
"Bill" wrote in message
...
In message , michael adams
writes
Basically until the UK agrees to pay them what they think they're due, regardless of
whether anyone else thinks this is fair or not, they're not going to negotiate on
anything else.

This was the fait accompli which Davis was presented with on Monday morning.

If you read the article some of the sums being mentioned as compo are simply staggering
i.e 100 billion

It's maybe no wonder a lot of people are trying to play this down.

So the EU position is "Pay us 100 billion or you have to stay in our cartel (club or
whatever)"?

Any sane person would treat this as a wind up or insanity.

Hardly. This has been on the cards, since before the
referendum.

According to them, us leaving will cost them 10 billion
per annum. Which without looking it up, may well correspond
with the figure many were suggesring as the amount the
UK would save per year, by leaving.

Then they're further claiming that its going to take them
a good 10 years to get over the initial shock.

Basically if they hired a good divorce lawyer to argue
their case they might even get it up to 30 years.

With the UK paying their costs, on top.


michael adams

...

The idiocy you espouse seems to be based on some weird assumption that
we will be subject to EU law once we leave the EU.

WE just promise to pay, repeal the act as soon as we have left and stick
two fingers in the air.

This is realpolitik micheal, I know its hard for your little remoaner
brain to grasp, but there are no rules at this level. No one except
maybe a US air strike can enforce anything, and no legal arrangement is
binding unless we let it be, between two entities that are sovereign.

We cant force the EU to do anything and they cant force us, either.

That's why its a negotiation and there may be an agreement.

It still will not be legally binding because there is no organisation
superior to the EU and Britain to make it so..

Politically it is a treaty between equals. If the EU wants to play 'we
still own you and you are subject to our laws' then they can just ****
off and take the rather bad consequences.






--
Labour - a bunch of rich people convincing poor people to vote for rich
people
by telling poor people that "other" rich people are the reason they are
poor.

Peter Thompson

"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...


"michael adams" wrote in message
o.uk...

"TheChief" wrote in message news
"michael adams" Wrote in message:

"Cursitor Doom" wrote in message
news On Tue, 20 Jun 2017 12:22:43 +0100, michael adams wrote:

Then, when on day one of the negotiations when it became clear that
there would otherwise be no talks, Davis immediately caved in.

Nothink to worry about. All they've done is agree to fix the "leaving
fee" til later; that's all.

Precisely the opposite, I'm afraid. That's the whole point

quote

The question of the UK financial settlement, along with an
agreement on the rights of expats on both sides of the Channel
will be the first two items that will be settled in the talks,
which will begin in earnest next month.

/quote



http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017...day-one-talks/

Basically until the UK agrees to pay them what they
think they're due, regardless of whether anyone else
thinks this is fair or not, they're not going to
negotiate on anything else.

This was the fait accompli which Davis was presented
with on Monday morning.

If you read the article some of the sums being mentioned
as compo are simply staggering i.e 100 billion

It's maybe no wonder a lot of people are trying to
play this down.



michael adams

...








The EU position was nothing is agreed till everything is agreed.

Er no. As explained above

That’s a CLAIM, not an explanation, and its just plain wrong.

agreement has first to be reached on the amount of the divorce settlement, plus EU
citizens rights.

That’s just the EU ambit claim with no legal basis what so ever.


snipped the usual rubbish

You still don't get it, do you ?

The whole point of this thread, is that that is exactly what David
Davis has already agreed to. On the first day of the "negotiations".

Which part of

quote

The question of the UK financial settlement, along with an
agreement on the rights of expats on both sides of the Channel
will be the first two items that will be settled in the talks,
which will begin in earnest next month.

/quote

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017...-one-talks/are you having the most difficulty with ?To repeat: David Davis has already agreed that the amount of thedivorce settlement and the citizenship rights of expats will firstneed to be settled before moving onto anything else.Now quite possibly Davis already realises that the UK won'tbe able to reach any agreement on these, so that the nexttwo years are going to be a bit of a charade.By which time of course, the Pound Sterling will be tradingat around US 15cmichael adams...

On 20/06/17 20:55, michael adams wrote:
While reneging on any agreement would simply relegate the Pound
s#Sterling to the same level, both in terms of value and credibility
as the Zimbabwean Dollar. It took Robert Mugabe years to achieve
what the UK could manage within days.

Oh dear. I take it you have a job in the EU?

Nothing else could explain the amazing amount of unadulterated wombat
turds you spout.

We all know exactly what will happen because its what always happens
when the EU sits down to negotiate. It will go on and on and on and at
the 11th hour some country like Luxembourg will demand something or
else, and the whole thing will collapse and we will end up with no deal.

Because the EU is incapable of governing itself, let alone negotiating
with anyone else.

The EU cannot allow us to walk away, and it cannot force us to stay.

It is completely ****ed, and we are about to rub their ****ing noses in
just how royally ****ed they are going to be, and since like you they
are a bunch of arrogant ****s with no redeeming features, it will be a
pleasure to watch and well worth £300 a year on me taxes.

Which I can save by not having a telly. And not buying any newspapers.


--
Renewable energy: Expensive solutions that don't work to a problem that
doesn't exist instituted by self legalising protection rackets that
don't protect, masquerading as public servants who don't serve the public.

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
news
On 20/06/17 20:35, michael adams wrote:
"Bill" wrote in message
...
In message , michael adams
writes
Basically until the UK agrees to pay them what they think they're due, regardless of
whether anyone else thinks this is fair or not, they're not going to negotiate on
anything else.

This was the fait accompli which Davis was presented with on Monday morning.

If you read the article some of the sums being mentioned as compo are simply
staggering
i.e 100 billion

It's maybe no wonder a lot of people are trying to play this down.

So the EU position is "Pay us 100 billion or you have to stay in our cartel (club or
whatever)"?

Any sane person would treat this as a wind up or insanity.

Hardly. This has been on the cards, since before the
referendum.

According to them, us leaving will cost them 10 billion
per annum. Which without looking it up, may well correspond
with the figure many were suggesring as the amount the
UK would save per year, by leaving.

Then they're further claiming that its going to take them
a good 10 years to get over the initial shock.

Basically if they hired a good divorce lawyer to argue
their case they might even get it up to 30 years.

With the UK paying their costs, on top.


michael adams

...

The idiocy you espouse seems to be based on some weird assumption that we will be
subject to EU law once we leave the EU.



So which part of what David Davis agreed to yesterday

quote

The question of the UK financial settlement, along with an
agreement on the rights of expats on both sides of the Channel
will be the first two items that will be settled in the talks,
which will begin in earnest next month.

/quote

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017...-one-talks/are you having the most difficulty with ?All this happens before we leave the EU. Not afterwards.The fact that you also seem to favour the Robert Mugabe option, regardless of the consequences for the Pound Sterling comes as no real surprise.Given thatbased on past claims you'll have already emigrated, or done the decent thing,well before the **** really hits the fan.michael adams...