In message , AnthonyL
writes

Well Bill is clearly in support and we've had views from some on why
they hate the bells being rung and I was curious as to what Bill liked
about it. Disappointingly his response in another post is unhelpful
but I guess some folk simply enjoy the English traditions that give
this country its identity which others would see sterilized.

Yes, I am with Bill on this one. The is something so very English about
church bells on a Sunday morning, and no, I don't object to hearing the
ringers practice at other times.

Where I live now (Aberdeenshire) there are three churches in the
village, only one of which sounds bells for service, but that is no more
than a toll. Not ringing in the English sense.
--
Graeme

"harry" wrote in message
...
On Saturday, 15 October 2016 17:59:57 UTC+1, AnthonyL wrote:
On Sat, 15 Oct 2016 04:16:34 +0100, Bill Wright
wrote:

I just signed the petition "Allow the York Minster bell ringers to
ring!" and wonder if you could add your name too.

The more support we can get the better chance we have of succeeding. You
can read more and sign the petition he

http://you.38degrees.org.uk/petition...ingers-to-ring

Thank you!



I'm curious to have an appreciation as to why you think this is
important. It is a genuine question and I assume you are not a York
bellringer, though you may be of course in which case you'd have a
vested interested.

There is a general trend to attack all our traditions.
It's part of the lefty attempt to create a world socialist state.

Must be why they setup that utterly obscene example of socialism,
the NHS, that was actually stupid enough to employ you.

And that other utter obscenity of socialism, the FIT scheme you rort.

On Sun, 16 Oct 2016 09:54:05 +1100, "Rod Speed"
wrote:
"Andy Burns" wrote in message
...
alan_m wrote:

Some sadist at BBC radio 4 has recorded peals of bells from
various UK
churches and they are often played late at night just as one is
dropping
off to sleep.

I that doesn't get you, R4 joins the World Service which remains
a spoken
service which is fine for dropping off to ... until some schools
"music
and movement" programme wakes you up at about 3am.

It shouldnt be hard to organise a decent system that
turns the radio off when you are asleep. Fades it down
over a few minutes so that doesnt wake you up.

Radios with sleep timers have been available for many years. Radio
cassette recorders used the time taken to play a cassette to turn the
radio off: unfortunately the clunk of the cassette deck stopping
would wake you up.

--
Max Demian

I'm very surprised the powers that be did not record the last few years of
bell ringing and just install big speakers in the bell tower and flog the
bells off for scrap.

That would be the conservative way of course, the lefties would keep
employing bell ringers but forget to train anyone to follow or invest in the
maintenance of the belfry.

Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"Bill Wright" wrote in message
...
On 15/10/2016 17:59, AnthonyL wrote:
On Sat, 15 Oct 2016 04:16:34 +0100, Bill Wright
wrote:

I just signed the petition "Allow the York Minster bell ringers to
ring!" and wonder if you could add your name too.

The more support we can get the better chance we have of succeeding. You
can read more and sign the petition he

http://you.38degrees.org.uk/petition...ingers-to-ring

Thank you!



I'm curious to have an appreciation as to why you think this is
important. It is a genuine question and I assume you are not a York
bellringer, though you may be of course in which case you'd have a
vested interested.



The same reason as I think BBC left wing bias is interesting.

Bill

Brian Gaff wrote:

I'm very surprised the powers that be did not record the last few years of
bell ringing and just install big speakers in the bell tower and flog the
bells off for scrap.

That would be the conservative way of course, the lefties would keep
employing bell ringers but forget to train anyone to follow or invest in
the maintenance of the belfry.

Is there any correlation at all between people who like to hear
bells ringing and their political views?
I would have thought it would appeal more to conservatives,
in both senses of the word.

I have never heard recorded bells that sound anything like real bells.


--
Timothy Murphy
gayleard /at/ eircom.net
School of Mathematics, Trinity College, Dublin

On Sun, 16 Oct 2016 08:51:10 +0100, Graeme
wrote:

In message , AnthonyL
writes

Well Bill is clearly in support and we've had views from some on why
they hate the bells being rung and I was curious as to what Bill liked
about it. Disappointingly his response in another post is unhelpful
but I guess some folk simply enjoy the English traditions that give
this country its identity which others would see sterilized.

Yes, I am with Bill on this one. The is something so very English about
church bells on a Sunday morning, and no, I don't object to hearing the
ringers practice at other times.

Where I live now (Aberdeenshire) there are three churches in the
village, only one of which sounds bells for service, but that is no more
than a toll. Not ringing in the English sense.

That is becoming a problem at more and more churches. It's not just
the congregations that are shrinking but there are not enough new
recruits to ring the number of installed bells. Bell ringers have
nearly always rung for other than service occasions but generally take
their service ringing duties seriously. A substantial amount of
practice is required and for those that complain of clashing of bells
it is generally because the band is not good enough. Hauling several
100cwt of metal around that goes through its stop start stop cycle in
2secs and with an accuracy of better than 40ms takes practice.

The young York ringers have written a letter which may be of interest:

http://www.yorkminsterbells.org.uk/?p=479


--
AnthonyL

On 16/10/16 13:18, Timothy Murphy wrote:
Brian Gaff wrote:

I'm very surprised the powers that be did not record the last few years of
bell ringing and just install big speakers in the bell tower and flog the
bells off for scrap.

That would be the conservative way of course, the lefties would keep
employing bell ringers but forget to train anyone to follow or invest in
the maintenance of the belfry.

Is there any correlation at all between people who like to hear
bells ringing and their political views?

I suppose them being religious things mainly they would be more the
thing of conservatives...


I would have thought it would appeal more to conservatives,
in both senses of the word.


Well I would tend to agree.

I have never heard recorded bells that sound anything like real bells.




--
Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's
too dark to read.

Groucho Marx

On Sat, 15 Oct 2016 04:16:34 +0100, Bill Wright
wrote:

I just signed the petition "Allow the York Minster bell ringers to
ring!" and wonder if you could add your name too.

The more support we can get the better chance we have of succeeding. You
can read more and sign the petition he

http://you.38degrees.org.uk/petition...ingers-to-ring

Thank you!

I've thought about this a lot and have decided not to sign. It's a
bit like taking a Union stand - one out all out, or at least, not to
cross the picket lines. If some, selected, ringing is permitted when
and with whom the Dean permits then bell ringers throughout have lost.
The existing band, who thus far seem to have behaved impeccably and
certainly more reasonably so than the "christian" head in the church,
perhaps should now call it a day and withdraw any further offers of
help until the matter is fully resolved.

Other bands should support the York ringers and similarly refuse to
help, whether it be for the couple getting married, Remembrance
Sunday, funerals, important occasions or the training of a new band.

Just to be clear you cannot get a dozen people, let's say a dozen fit
and reasonably intelligent and coordinated people from this newsgroup,
who've never rung bells before, and get them to safely, let alone
competently, ring York bells.

A tower near me had a fall-out amongst the ringers and rather than
leave the bells silent the choir decided they'd learn. Full help is
being given and after 3yrs, even on easy bells, they are still not at
the stage where they can ring more than the very basic patterns. It's
a bit like little Johnny coming home with his recorder or violin and 3
yrs later has just progressed beyond scales but not quite to Twinkle
Twinkle Little Star. It's not easy - if you think it is go and find
your local tower and pop in on a practice night. A plus is that many
bellringers take to a pint afterwards.


--
AnthonyL

On 16/10/2016 13:48, AnthonyL wrote:

A plus is that many
bellringers take to a pint afterwards.



It seems that most have spent all day in the pub before attempting to
ring the bells.

--
mailto: news {at} admac {dot] myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

"AnthonyL" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 15 Oct 2016 04:16:34 +0100, Bill Wright
wrote:

I just signed the petition "Allow the York Minster bell ringers to
ring!" and wonder if you could add your name too.

The more support we can get the better chance we have of succeeding.
You
can read more and sign the petition he

http://you.38degrees.org.uk/petition...ingers-to-ring

Thank you!

I've thought about this a lot and have decided not to sign. It's a
bit like taking a Union stand - one out all out, or at least, not to
cross the picket lines. If some, selected, ringing is permitted
when
and with whom the Dean permits then bell ringers throughout have
lost.
The existing band, who thus far seem to have behaved impeccably and
certainly more reasonably so than the "christian" head in the
church,
perhaps should now call it a day and withdraw any further offers of
help until the matter is fully resolved.

Other bands should support the York ringers and similarly refuse to
help, whether it be for the couple getting married, Remembrance
Sunday, funerals, important occasions or the training of a new band.

Just to be clear you cannot get a dozen people, let's say a dozen
fit
and reasonably intelligent and coordinated people from this
newsgroup,
who've never rung bells before, and get them to safely, let alone
competently, ring York bells.

A tower near me had a fall-out amongst the ringers and rather than
leave the bells silent the choir decided they'd learn. Full help is
being given and after 3yrs, even on easy bells, they are still not
at
the stage where they can ring more than the very basic patterns.
It's
a bit like little Johnny coming home with his recorder or violin and
3
yrs later has just progressed beyond scales but not quite to Twinkle
Twinkle Little Star. It's not easy - if you think it is go and find
your local tower and pop in on a practice night. A plus is that
many
bellringers take to a pint afterwards.



Couldn't agree more - but clearly the Dean doesn't seem to or want to
understand that.

The Ringing Captain was interviewed on Sunday on R4 this morning
(worth listening to on iPlayer - second item.) The Dean was also
invited but declined but (effectively) made a statement to a reporter
from BBC R York a few days ago.

She said that the ringers were an autonomous group who did not
'combine' with the church - strange then that the Captain and deputy
are actually appointed by the Chapter and are responsible to them.

They have had the locks changed because (implicitly) the ringers have
not been following procedures when attending the tower. Strange then
that the key to the ringing chamber has to be signed out by one of
only a few nominated members from the Minster Police and returned to
them each time.

For more dangerous places such as the bell chamber if, say, mufflers
have to be fitted for a funeral the access limitations are much more
strict requiring a GrandMaster key which only certain people can book
out.

My feeling is that there is some friction between the Dean and Chapter
and she is rattling her sword to bring them into line using other
bodies - like the ringers - as her leaver.


--
Woody

harrogate3 at ntlworld dot com

"Brian Gaff" wrote in message
...
I'm very surprised the powers that be did not record the last few years of bell
ringing and just install big speakers in the bell tower and flog the bells off for
scrap.

Indeed. It raises the interesting point too that, if people like bells so much, why
don't they just buy a recording and listen to it at home in private? There's no
need for it to be inflicted on all and sundry.

If I liked gangsta rap, should I be allowed to broadcast it from a tower as loud as
bells and for the same duration? Or would I be expected to indulge that little
peccadillo at home and in private?

I don't see any difference.

In article ,
Timothy Murphy wrote:
Brian Gaff wrote:

I'm very surprised the powers that be did not record the last few
years of bell ringing and just install big speakers in the bell tower
and flog the bells off for scrap.

That would be the conservative way of course, the lefties would keep
employing bell ringers but forget to train anyone to follow or invest in
the maintenance of the belfry.

Is there any correlation at all between people who like to hear
bells ringing and their political views?
I would have thought it would appeal more to conservatives,
in both senses of the word.

I have never heard recorded bells that sound anything like real bells.

Quite. You would need a very decent sound system to get close. Not what
those doing it to save money would pay for.

And I'm surprised at Brian's views on training. Training costs money with
no short term profit. Exactly what's happened with business in the UK -
why train when you can poach people from abroad? Exactly the reverse of
what unions etc want. But true market forces.

--
*HOW DO THEY GET DEER TO CROSS THE ROAD ONLY AT THOSE YELLOW ROAD SIGNS?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"AnthonyL" wrote in message
...

A tower near me had a fall-out amongst the ringers and rather than
leave the bells silent the choir decided they'd learn. Full help is
being given and after 3yrs, even on easy bells, they are still not at
the stage where they can ring more than the very basic patterns. It's
a bit like little Johnny coming home with his recorder or violin and 3
yrs later has just progressed beyond scales but not quite to Twinkle
Twinkle Little Star.

And what fun that must be to listen to!

Don't the neighbours deserve some sort of protection?

On 10/16/2016 2:56 PM, Woody wrote:
"AnthonyL" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 15 Oct 2016 04:16:34 +0100, Bill Wright
wrote:

I just signed the petition "Allow the York Minster bell ringers to
ring!" and wonder if you could add your name too.

The more support we can get the better chance we have of succeeding.
You
can read more and sign the petition he

http://you.38degrees.org.uk/petition...ingers-to-ring

Thank you!

I've thought about this a lot and have decided not to sign. It's a
bit like taking a Union stand - one out all out, or at least, not to
cross the picket lines. If some, selected, ringing is permitted
when
and with whom the Dean permits then bell ringers throughout have
lost.
The existing band, who thus far seem to have behaved impeccably and
certainly more reasonably so than the "christian" head in the
church,
perhaps should now call it a day and withdraw any further offers of
help until the matter is fully resolved.

Other bands should support the York ringers and similarly refuse to
help, whether it be for the couple getting married, Remembrance
Sunday, funerals, important occasions or the training of a new band.

Just to be clear you cannot get a dozen people, let's say a dozen
fit
and reasonably intelligent and coordinated people from this
newsgroup,
who've never rung bells before, and get them to safely, let alone
competently, ring York bells.

A tower near me had a fall-out amongst the ringers and rather than
leave the bells silent the choir decided they'd learn. Full help is
being given and after 3yrs, even on easy bells, they are still not
at
the stage where they can ring more than the very basic patterns.
It's
a bit like little Johnny coming home with his recorder or violin and
3
yrs later has just progressed beyond scales but not quite to Twinkle
Twinkle Little Star. It's not easy - if you think it is go and find
your local tower and pop in on a practice night. A plus is that
many
bellringers take to a pint afterwards.



Couldn't agree more - but clearly the Dean doesn't seem to or want to
understand that.

The Ringing Captain was interviewed on Sunday on R4 this morning
(worth listening to on iPlayer - second item.) The Dean was also
invited but declined but (effectively) made a statement to a reporter
from BBC R York a few days ago.

She said that the ringers were an autonomous group who did not
'combine' with the church - strange then that the Captain and deputy
are actually appointed by the Chapter and are responsible to them.

They have had the locks changed because (implicitly) the ringers have
not been following procedures when attending the tower. Strange then
that the key to the ringing chamber has to be signed out by one of
only a few nominated members from the Minster Police and returned to
them each time.

For more dangerous places such as the bell chamber if, say, mufflers
have to be fitted for a funeral the access limitations are much more
strict requiring a GrandMaster key which only certain people can book
out.

My feeling is that there is some friction between the Dean and Chapter
and she is rattling her sword to bring them into line using other
bodies - like the ringers - as her leaver.


I'm told that historically, becoming a ringer was one way that the more
atheistic and/or bolshy parishioners got out of attending services
without attracting social opprobrium.

On 10/15/2016 10:47 AM, alan_m wrote:
On 15/10/2016 10:26, Ian Jackson wrote:

I don't mind peals of bells, but I've rarely been able to discern any
sort of tune. It wouldn't be too had if they put out a nice, steady
rhythm - but the clangs are usually all jerky.

Some sadist at BBC radio 4 has recorded peals of bells from various UK
churches and they are often played late at night just as one is dropping
off to sleep.

My observation is that either ALL bell ringers are failed musicians who
cannot hold a tune, the bells are only 'played' to drive off the devil
or they should not be considered as a musical instruments - or a
combination of all three. Its much the same with bagpipes. Considered by
the Scots as a weapon of war but some fool thought they could get a
pleasant tune from them.



The Science Museum used to have a nice display which demonstrated a wide
range of musical scales graphically. The one which stood out from all
the others was the traditional Scottish Highland Bagpipes, some of the
intervals in the scale are all over the place (more than a quarter of a
tone, iirc); explaining why they sound so odd.

On 16/10/16 16:30, newshound wrote:
On 10/15/2016 10:47 AM, alan_m wrote:
On 15/10/2016 10:26, Ian Jackson wrote:

I don't mind peals of bells, but I've rarely been able to discern any
sort of tune. It wouldn't be too had if they put out a nice, steady
rhythm - but the clangs are usually all jerky.

Some sadist at BBC radio 4 has recorded peals of bells from various UK
churches and they are often played late at night just as one is dropping
off to sleep.

My observation is that either ALL bell ringers are failed musicians who
cannot hold a tune, the bells are only 'played' to drive off the devil
or they should not be considered as a musical instruments - or a
combination of all three. Its much the same with bagpipes. Considered by
the Scots as a weapon of war but some fool thought they could get a
pleasant tune from them.



The Science Museum used to have a nice display which demonstrated a wide
range of musical scales graphically. The one which stood out from all
the others was the traditional Scottish Highland Bagpipes, some of the
intervals in the scale are all over the place (more than a quarter of a
tone, iirc); explaining why they sound so odd.

Remember there is tuning to a scale, and there is the even tempered
chromatic scale that is used. It is a compromise. Its not perfectly in
tune even with itself for any given key.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal_temperament
--
€œBut what a weak barrier is truth when it stands in the way of an
hypothesis!€�

Mary Wollstonecraft

On 16/10/16 15:27, Norman Wells wrote:
"Brian Gaff" wrote in message
...
I'm very surprised the powers that be did not record the last few
years of bell ringing and just install big speakers in the bell tower
and flog the bells off for scrap.

Indeed. It raises the interesting point too that, if people like bells
so much, why don't they just buy a recording and listen to it at home in
private? There's no need for it to be inflicted on all and sundry.

If I liked gangsta rap, should I be allowed to broadcast it from a tower
as loud as bells and for the same duration? Or would I be expected to
indulge that little peccadillo at home and in private?


I refer you to the 'call to prayer' broadcast from mosques and other
minarets.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6mGng9NTKU


I don't see any difference.


WEll it has to do with who was here first, you, the custom of
bell-ringing, or gangsta rap.





--
€œBut what a weak barrier is truth when it stands in the way of an
hypothesis!€�

Mary Wollstonecraft

In article , Bill Wright
scribeth thus
I just signed the petition "Allow the York Minster bell ringers to
ring!" and wonder if you could add your name too.

The more support we can get the better chance we have of succeeding. You
can read more and sign the petition he

http://you.38degrees.org.uk/petition...ll-ringers-to-
ring

Thank you!

Bill

Done!...
--
Tony Sayer

On 16/10/2016 07:38, harry wrote:


There is a general trend to attack all our traditions.

Including compulsory attendance at the parish church.

--
mailto: news {at} admac {dot] myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On Saturday, 15 October 2016 10:47:28 UTC+1, alan_m wrote:
On 15/10/2016 10:26, Ian Jackson wrote:

I don't mind peals of bells, but I've rarely been able to discern any
sort of tune. It wouldn't be too had if they put out a nice, steady
rhythm - but the clangs are usually all jerky.

Some sadist at BBC radio 4 has recorded peals of bells from various UK
churches and they are often played late at night just as one is dropping
off to sleep.

My observation is that either ALL bell ringers are failed musicians who
cannot hold a tune, the bells are only 'played' to drive off the devil
or they should not be considered as a musical instruments - or a
combination of all three. Its much the same with bagpipes. Considered by
the Scots as a weapon of war but some fool thought they could get a
pleasant tune from them.



--
mailto: news {at} admac {dot] myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

There's a church in Ledbury where the bells play well known hymns.

On Sunday, 16 October 2016 12:44:45 UTC+1, Brian Gaff wrote:
I'm very surprised the powers that be did not record the last few years of
bell ringing and just install big speakers in the bell tower and flog the
bells off for scrap.

That would be the conservative way of course, the lefties would keep
employing bell ringers but forget to train anyone to follow or invest in the
maintenance of the belfry.

Brian
Somebody has.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvXyJmdOh-U

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 16/10/16 15:27, Norman Wells wrote:
"Brian Gaff" wrote in message
...
I'm very surprised the powers that be did not record the last few
years of bell ringing and just install big speakers in the bell tower
and flog the bells off for scrap.

Indeed. It raises the interesting point too that, if people like bells
so much, why don't they just buy a recording and listen to it at home in
private? There's no need for it to be inflicted on all and sundry.

If I liked gangsta rap, should I be allowed to broadcast it from a tower
as loud as bells and for the same duration? Or would I be expected to
indulge that little peccadillo at home and in private?

I refer you to the 'call to prayer' broadcast from mosques and other minarets.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6mGng9NTKU

I don't see any difference.

WEll it has to do with who was here first, you, the custom of bell-ringing, or
gangsta rap.

So, in your view, the first to commit a Statutory Nuisance has the right to continue
doing so, and has precedence over all others who may want to?

On Sun, 16 Oct 2016 16:30:15 +0100, newshound
wrote:

The Science Museum used to have a nice display which demonstrated a
wide
range of musical scales graphically. The one which stood out from
all
the others was the traditional Scottish Highland Bagpipes, some of
the
intervals in the scale are all over the place (more than a quarter
of a
tone, iirc); explaining why they sound so odd.

I think it's more due to the drones.

--
Max Demian

On Sun, 16 Oct 2016 15:27:44 +0100, "Norman Wells"
wrote:
"Brian Gaff" wrote in message
...

I'm very surprised the powers that be did not record the last few
years of bell
ringing and just install big speakers in the bell tower and flog
the bells off for
scrap.

Indeed. It raises the interesting point too that, if people like
bells so much, why
don't they just buy a recording and listen to it at home in
private? There's no
need for it to be inflicted on all and sundry.

If I liked gangsta rap, should I be allowed to broadcast it from a
tower as loud as
bells and for the same duration? Or would I be expected to indulge
that little
peccadillo at home and in private?

I don't see any difference.

Why not disband all the orchestras? There must be multiple recordings
of every classical piece in every significant interpretation by now.

--
Max Demian

On 16/10/16 17:49, Norman Wells wrote:

So, in your view, the first to commit a Statutory Nuisance has the right
to continue doing so, and has precedence over all others who may want to?

I like church bells and I do not regard them as a statutory nuisance.

If you don't like church bells, don't live leave a church. Ditto
cockerels, "country smells", etc.

"Max Demian" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 16 Oct 2016 15:27:44 +0100, "Norman Wells" wrote:
"Brian Gaff" wrote in message
...

I'm very surprised the powers that be did not record the last few
years of bell
ringing and just install big speakers in the bell tower and flog
the bells off for
scrap.

Indeed. It raises the interesting point too that, if people like
bells so much, why
don't they just buy a recording and listen to it at home in
private? There's no
need for it to be inflicted on all and sundry.

If I liked gangsta rap, should I be allowed to broadcast it from a
tower as loud as
bells and for the same duration? Or would I be expected to indulge
that little peccadillo at home and in private?

I don't see any difference.

Why not disband all the orchestras? There must be multiple recordings of every
classical piece in every significant interpretation by now.

The numbers are diminishing every year for all sorts of reasons, including that one.

Anyway, do people listen to church bells because of the joy of a live performance
and the thrill of slight nuances in the third tenor or whatever it may be called?

Somehow, I rather doubt it.

In message , Norman Wells
writes:
[]
If I liked gangsta rap, should I be allowed to broadcast it from a
tower as loud as
bells and for the same duration? Or would I be expected to indulge
that little peccadillo at home and in private?

I don't see any difference.

Well, one difference, though probably not germane to this discussion, is
that gangsta rap, like many forms of music from about the 1930s onwards,
depends for its nature on electronic amplification, whereas bells don't.

Why not disband all the orchestras? There must be multiple recordings
of every classical piece in every significant interpretation by now.

The numbers are diminishing every year for all sorts of reasons,
including that one.

Anyway, do people listen to church bells because of the joy of a live
performance and the thrill of slight nuances in the third tenor or
whatever it may be called?

They see it as part of "village life", or some similar concept. While in
practice many of them would not in fact be able to tell whether it was
real or a recording (if good quality and coming from the belfry), most
of them would be seriously cross if they discovered that the latter
_was_ the case.

Somehow, I rather doubt it.

--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

"The great tragedy of science, the slaying of a beautiful theory by an ugly
fact. - Thomas Henry Huxley

On 16/10/2016 18:47, Max Demian wrote:

I think it's more due to the drones.

Which started me imagining flying bagpipes delivering Amazon parcels...

--
Rod

On 16/10/2016 20:19, pamela wrote:
Similarly, I've never heard an Islamic muezzin calling worshippers
to prayer who wasn't totally out of tune.

I've never heard a non-Islamic muezzin...

--
Rod

On 16/10/2016 20:38, pamela wrote:
On 20:25 16 Oct 2016, polygonum wrote:

On 16/10/2016 20:19, pamela wrote:

Similarly, I've never heard an Islamic muezzin calling worshippers
to prayer who wasn't totally out of tune.

I've never heard a non-Islamic muezzin...


Unless it's a recording. Which is still often out of tune!

A recording of a non-Islamic muezzin? Never knowingly heard, or even
heard of, one of them.

--
Rod

"J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote in message
...
In message , Norman Wells
writes:
[]
If I liked gangsta rap, should I be allowed to broadcast it from a
tower as loud as
bells and for the same duration? Or would I be expected to indulge
that little peccadillo at home and in private?

I don't see any difference.

Well, one difference, though probably not germane to this discussion, is that
gangsta rap, like many forms of music from about the 1930s onwards, depends for
its nature on electronic amplification, whereas bells don't.

Indeed. That makes them even more unpleasant. You can't just go up there and pull
the plug.

Why not disband all the orchestras? There must be multiple recordings of every
classical piece in every significant interpretation by now.

The numbers are diminishing every year for all sorts of reasons, including that
one.

Anyway, do people listen to church bells because of the joy of a live performance
and the thrill of slight nuances in the third tenor or whatever it may be called?

They see it as part of "village life", or some similar concept. While in practice
many of them would not in fact be able to tell whether it was real or a recording
(if good quality and coming from the belfry), most of them would be seriously
cross if they discovered that the latter _was_ the case.

Well, that's totally irrational of course, so I won't pay it any heed. It's
impossible to deal satisfactorily with nutters.

In message , pamela
writes



Similarly, I've never heard an Islamic muezzin calling worshippers
to prayer who wasn't totally out of tune.

They are probably singing the right notes - but not necessarily in right
order.
--
Ian

On 16/10/2016 21:04, pamela wrote:
The recording may be of an Islamic call but the recording
equipment itself is not Islamic although I dunno - maybe it was
designed in Pakistan and assembled in Indonesia!

I thought only humans followed religions. Surely we don't have tape
recorders that are Catholic, Hindu, atheist, Jain, Buddhist and Baptist
and Jewish?

--
Rod

On 16/10/2016 20:38, pamela wrote:
On 20:25 16 Oct 2016, polygonum wrote:

On 16/10/2016 20:19, pamela wrote:

Similarly, I've never heard an Islamic muezzin calling worshippers
to prayer who wasn't totally out of tune.

I've never heard a non-Islamic muezzin...


Unless it's a recording. Which is still often out of tune!

In tune by their scale, which is *not* the same as ours.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Makam

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

On Sun, 16 Oct 2016 21:21:16 +0100, polygonum
wrote:
On 16/10/2016 21:04, pamela wrote:

The recording may be of an Islamic call but the recording
equipment itself is not Islamic although I dunno - maybe it was
designed in Pakistan and assembled in Indonesia!

I thought only humans followed religions. Surely we don't have tape
recorders that are Catholic, Hindu, atheist, Jain, Buddhist and
Baptist
and Jewish?

What religion are church bells?

--
Max Demian

"Max Demian" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 16 Oct 2016 21:21:16 +0100, polygonum
wrote:
On 16/10/2016 21:04, pamela wrote:

The recording may be of an Islamic call but the recording
equipment itself is not Islamic although I dunno - maybe it was
designed in Pakistan and assembled in Indonesia!

I thought only humans followed religions. Surely we don't have tape
recorders that are Catholic, Hindu, atheist, Jain, Buddhist and
Baptist
and Jewish?

What religion are church bells?

Clackophanism.

On Sun, 16 Oct 2016 19:21:40 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
wrote:
In message , Norman Wells
writes:

Anyway, do people listen to church bells because of the joy of a
live
performance and the thrill of slight nuances in the third tenor or
whatever it may be called?

They see it as part of "village life", or some similar concept.
While in
practice many of them would not in fact be able to tell whether it
was
real or a recording (if good quality and coming from the belfry),
most
of them would be seriously cross if they discovered that the latter
_was_ the case.

A recording of church bells would probably feature nasty distortion
like ice cream vans cranked up to maximum volume.

--
Max Demian

"Bill Wright" wrote in message
...
On 15/10/2016 23:54, Rod Speed wrote:


"Andy Burns" wrote in message
...
alan_m wrote:

Some sadist at BBC radio 4 has recorded peals of bells from various UK
churches and they are often played late at night just as one is
dropping
off to sleep.

I that doesn't get you, R4 joins the World Service which remains a
spoken service which is fine for dropping off to ... until some
schools "music and movement" programme wakes you up at about 3am.

It shouldn’t be hard to organise a decent system that
turns the radio off when you are asleep. Fades it down
over a few minutes so that doesn’t wake you up.

I find all this rather odd. When I go to bed I turn the lights off

So do I.

and silence anything that is making an interesting noise.

I don’t bother with that and can sleep fine with dripping taps etc.

I don't want any interesting sounds because they would distract me from my
great pleasure, which is allowing my imagination to roam freely.

I go to sleep very quickly and don’t need to do anything like that.

Uninteresting noise doesn't matter. I'm lucky in that I can immerse myself
in any scenario that I fancy with good control, once my eyes are closed.

I don’t need to do anything like that, I just go to sleep.

My dad had this ability and could also close his eyes and describe what he
saw. For instance he could give a detailed commentary on everything seen
from a bicycle on a ride from Bentley to Idle Stop in the 1930s.

Don’t have anything like that sort of memory myself.

When he was alive he had vivid dreams, as do I.

Yeah, I do too. More so lately than I used to in the past
but that may just be because I remember them after waking
more than I used to. I was notorious as a child for talking in
my sleep but I never remembered any of those dreams.

I once went into his room and he was talking in his sleep. He was
conducting a public meeting in Ireland about a forthcoming agricultural
show. When I appeared he introduced me to the committee and I was obliged
to join in. It was an odd experience.

I bet.

I do miss him so much.

Yeah, I imagine you would.

On 17/10/2016 00:56, Max Demian wrote:
On Sun, 16 Oct 2016 21:21:16 +0100, polygonum
wrote:
On 16/10/2016 21:04, pamela wrote:

The recording may be of an Islamic call but the recording
equipment itself is not Islamic although I dunno - maybe it was
designed in Pakistan and assembled in Indonesia!

I thought only humans followed religions. Surely we don't have tape
recorders that are Catholic, Hindu, atheist, Jain, Buddhist and
Baptist
and Jewish?

What religion are church bells?

As Christian churches, at least some of them, have a ceremony of
Blessing of the Bells, perhaps they would be deemed to be Christian?

Otherwise, none like every other non-human object or being.

--
Rod

"Max Demian" wrote in message
.. .

A recording of church bells would probably feature nasty distortion like ice cream
vans cranked up to maximum volume.

They could always turn the bells down to avoid it. But I doubt if they've thought
of that. You see, all they want to do is make the maximum amount of noise.