On Tuesday, 5 April 2016 09:51:32 UTC+1, tony sayer wrote:
In article ,
harry scribeth thus
On Friday, 1 April 2016 14:40:53 UTC+1, RJH wrote:
On 01/04/2016 14:35, Another Dave wrote:
On 01/04/16 12:46, JoeJoe wrote:
Just saw the launch of the new Tesla car, and at a claimed 215m to a
charge, I can see myself perhaps being persuaded to consider the
technology at some stage in the not near or medium future.

I have seen quite a few charging points (or whatever they are called) -
in most large European cities. I assume that the cost of a charge is set
so that it would be marginally lower to run such cars compared to
petrol/diesel cars.

But what would be a rough estimate for the true cost of a charge (i.e.
when done at home)?

For a "true" cost (i.e. one that you could compare to a conventional
car) you would need to take into account the tax levied on petrol and
diesel but not on electricity.


Yes indeed. Plus one of the largest costs of car ownership - depreciation.

Depreciation is high on current electric cars.
So, buy second hand.

If you have solar PV panels, you can charge up for free in Summer.

Right so if you use the car for commuting then .. nah!, perhaps best not
leave it at home charging and go to work on yer bike;!..

I am retired so I can plug it in at any time.

On Monday, 4 April 2016 20:55:00 UTC+1, dennis@home wrote:
On 04/04/2016 17:02, harry wrote:

I would think they will just use APNR cameras and send you a bill for
each one passed.

I think it would be possible to devise routes to avoid passing them.


Given how many people are getting fined for being on the road without
tax I doubt if its easy.

There is no road tax to pay on electric cars.

On 05/04/2016 09:29, harry wrote:
On Monday, 4 April 2016 20:55:00 UTC+1, dennis@home wrote:
On 04/04/2016 17:02, harry wrote:

I would think they will just use APNR cameras and send you a bill for
each one passed.

I think it would be possible to devise routes to avoid passing them.


Given how many people are getting fined for being on the road without
tax I doubt if its easy.

Have you seen that you can now get £6k off the price of a new Renault
zoe bringing it down to less than £10k?
Looks like electric cars aren't selling.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electr...United_Kingdom


So they aren't selling then.


If they are so good then why would a dealer need to offer

£129 pm over 24 months + option to buy + fees of ~£7k
to sell an £18k car?

On Tue, 5 Apr 2016 08:16:32 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

On Monday, 4 April 2016 20:55:00 UTC+1, dennis@home wrote:
On 04/04/2016 17:02, harry wrote:

I would think they will just use APNR cameras and send you a bill for
each one passed.

I think it would be possible to devise routes to avoid passing them.


Given how many people are getting fined for being on the road without
tax I doubt if its easy.




There is no road tax to pay on electric cars.

How does that stop their number plates being read by an APNR system
you **** for brains geriatric, or are you going to claim that electric
cars have special ones that cannot be read by an APNR camera.
You seem to be losing the ability to think logically ,Alzheimer's
getting worse?


G.Harman

On Tuesday, 5 April 2016 14:05:44 UTC+1, Mr Macaw wrote:
On Fri, 01 Apr 2016 21:07:31 +0100, alan_m wrote:

On 01/04/2016 13:23, Tim Watts wrote:


Either way it's a good deal, but does not factor the massive capital
cost of a Tesla!

But how long will it be before the government decide that they have to
tax the electricity to charge a car at the equivalent rate as the tax or
petrol/diesel? Why do you think that they want smart meters fitted to
every household?

Can they tell the difference between green and red electrons or something?

No but the blue ones are easy to spot. That's when they use E7 'charging' ;-)

On Tuesday, 5 April 2016 16:12:17 UTC+1, harry wrote:
On Tuesday, 5 April 2016 09:51:32 UTC+1, tony sayer wrote:
In article ,
harry scribeth thus
On Friday, 1 April 2016 21:14:26 UTC+1, alan_m wrote:
On 01/04/2016 15:47, whisky-dave wrote:


So what sort of driver is it aimed at long distance ?
but can only do 215 miles.....


With a new battery! What mileage can it achieve on a single charge when
the battery is a 1 or 2 years old?


--
mailto: news {at} admac {dot] myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

Lots of people here rabbiting on with zero knowledge.
My car is 2012, any battery deterioration is undetectable.

Well well Harry, perhaps you've e found a way to reverse chemical ageing
you might get a Nobel prize for that!!....

--
Tony Sayer


Well ****-fer-brains, you don't suppose electric cars are not fitted with range remaining and battery charge condition instruments?
If so you must be really brain dead.

I thought petrol and desal cars had similar for their fuel.
Does it stop people running out of fuel....


All I have to go on is the instruments fitted to the car.
The battery "fullness" indicator hasn't changed much on the regular journeys I make.
The "pips" disappear at the same places on a journey that they always have.

I always charge the battery at optimum time/conditions.

Don't people do a similar thing with laptops and phones.

On Tue, 05 Apr 2016 16:47:37 +0100, whisky-dave wrote:

On Tuesday, 5 April 2016 14:05:44 UTC+1, Mr Macaw wrote:
On Fri, 01 Apr 2016 21:07:31 +0100, alan_m wrote:

On 01/04/2016 13:23, Tim Watts wrote:


Either way it's a good deal, but does not factor the massive capital
cost of a Tesla!

But how long will it be before the government decide that they have to
tax the electricity to charge a car at the equivalent rate as the tax or
petrol/diesel? Why do you think that they want smart meters fitted to
every household?

Can they tell the difference between green and red electrons or something?

No but the blue ones are easy to spot. That's when they use E7 'charging' ;-)

But I might be charging 1 million mp3 players! I don't want fuel tax on that!

--
Did you hear about the guy who finally figured out women?
He died laughing before he could tell anybody.

"dennis@home" wrote in message
eb.com...
On 04/04/2016 17:02, harry wrote:

I would think they will just use APNR cameras and send you a bill for
each one passed.

I think it would be possible to devise routes to avoid passing them.


Given how many people are getting fined for being on the road without tax
I doubt if its easy.

Have you seen that you can now get £6k off the price of a new Renault zoe
bringing it down to less than £10k?

but what they didn't tell you was

"Batteries not included"

:-)

tim

"harry" wrote in message
...
On Monday, 4 April 2016 20:55:00 UTC+1, dennis@home wrote:
On 04/04/2016 17:02, harry wrote:

I would think they will just use APNR cameras and send you a bill for
each one passed.

I think it would be possible to devise routes to avoid passing them.


Given how many people are getting fined for being on the road without
tax I doubt if its easy.

There is no road tax to pay on electric cars.

Irrelevant to whether it can't be that easy to avoid the APNR cameras.

On 05/04/2016 16:12, harry wrote:
On Tuesday, 5 April 2016 09:51:32 UTC+1, tony sayer wrote:
In article ,
harry scribeth thus
On Friday, 1 April 2016 21:14:26 UTC+1, alan_m wrote:
On 01/04/2016 15:47, whisky-dave wrote:


So what sort of driver is it aimed at long distance ?
but can only do 215 miles.....


With a new battery! What mileage can it achieve on a single charge when
the battery is a 1 or 2 years old?


--
mailto: news {at} admac {dot] myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

Lots of people here rabbiting on with zero knowledge.
My car is 2012, any battery deterioration is undetectable.

Well well Harry, perhaps you've e found a way to reverse chemical ageing
you might get a Nobel prize for that!!....

--
Tony Sayer


Well ****-fer-brains, you don't suppose electric cars are not fitted with range remaining and battery charge condition instruments?
If so you must be really brain dead.

All I have to go on is the instruments fitted to the car.
The battery "fullness" indicator hasn't changed much on the regular journeys I make.
The "pips" disappear at the same places on a journey that they always have.

I always charge the battery at optimum time/conditions.

You might find it informative to see if there is a smart phone app for
talking directly to the car's diagnostics. My friend with the Leaf found
that there is a world of difference between what the in car displays
tell him, and what the sensors are actually recording before
"processing" by the car.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Tuesday, 5 April 2016 16:53:14 UTC+1, whisky-dave wrote:
On Tuesday, 5 April 2016 16:12:17 UTC+1, harry wrote:
On Tuesday, 5 April 2016 09:51:32 UTC+1, tony sayer wrote:
In article ,
harry scribeth thus
On Friday, 1 April 2016 21:14:26 UTC+1, alan_m wrote:
On 01/04/2016 15:47, whisky-dave wrote:


So what sort of driver is it aimed at long distance ?
but can only do 215 miles.....


With a new battery! What mileage can it achieve on a single charge when
the battery is a 1 or 2 years old?


--
mailto: news {at} admac {dot] myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

Lots of people here rabbiting on with zero knowledge.
My car is 2012, any battery deterioration is undetectable.

Well well Harry, perhaps you've e found a way to reverse chemical ageing
you might get a Nobel prize for that!!....

--
Tony Sayer


Well ****-fer-brains, you don't suppose electric cars are not fitted with range remaining and battery charge condition instruments?
If so you must be really brain dead.

I thought petrol and desal cars had similar for their fuel.
Does it stop people running out of fuel....

When you have an electric car, you develop a condition known as range anxiety.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Range_anxiety




All I have to go on is the instruments fitted to the car.
The battery "fullness" indicator hasn't changed much on the regular journeys I make.
The "pips" disappear at the same places on a journey that they always have.

I always charge the battery at optimum time/conditions.

Don't people do a similar thing with laptops and phones.

On Tuesday, 5 April 2016 22:08:32 UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:
On 05/04/2016 16:12, harry wrote:
On Tuesday, 5 April 2016 09:51:32 UTC+1, tony sayer wrote:
In article ,
harry scribeth thus
On Friday, 1 April 2016 21:14:26 UTC+1, alan_m wrote:
On 01/04/2016 15:47, whisky-dave wrote:


So what sort of driver is it aimed at long distance ?
but can only do 215 miles.....


With a new battery! What mileage can it achieve on a single charge when
the battery is a 1 or 2 years old?


--
mailto: news {at} admac {dot] myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

Lots of people here rabbiting on with zero knowledge.
My car is 2012, any battery deterioration is undetectable.

Well well Harry, perhaps you've e found a way to reverse chemical ageing
you might get a Nobel prize for that!!....

--
Tony Sayer


Well ****-fer-brains, you don't suppose electric cars are not fitted with range remaining and battery charge condition instruments?
If so you must be really brain dead.

All I have to go on is the instruments fitted to the car.
The battery "fullness" indicator hasn't changed much on the regular journeys I make.
The "pips" disappear at the same places on a journey that they always have.

I always charge the battery at optimum time/conditions.

You might find it informative to see if there is a smart phone app for
talking directly to the car's diagnostics. My friend with the Leaf found
that there is a world of difference between what the in car displays
tell him, and what the sensors are actually recording before
"processing" by the car.


T
The cars instrumentation displays as much as it measures.
So interpretation of the sensors won't tell you anything more.
The physical condition of any battery can only be determined by completely charging and discharging the battery and measuring voltages and currents.

I don't know the operational principle of the panel instrumentation, ie instantaneous charge/discharge current, power remaining in the battery and range remaining.
It seems to be unconventional.

The instantaneous power is not calibrated and I don't know if it's linear or not. But gives a good indication of what's happening and (un)economic driving.

The range remaining computer is useless.

The power remaining in the battery seems to be spot on AFAICT.

On Tuesday, 5 April 2016 16:43:46 UTC+1, wrote:
On Tue, 5 Apr 2016 08:16:32 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

On Monday, 4 April 2016 20:55:00 UTC+1, dennis@home wrote:
On 04/04/2016 17:02, harry wrote:

I would think they will just use APNR cameras and send you a bill for
each one passed.

I think it would be possible to devise routes to avoid passing them.


Given how many people are getting fined for being on the road without
tax I doubt if its easy.




There is no road tax to pay on electric cars.

How does that stop their number plates being read by an APNR system
you **** for brains geriatric, or are you going to claim that electric
cars have special ones that cannot be read by an APNR camera.
You seem to be losing the ability to think logically ,Alzheimer's
getting worse?

As there is no tax to pay, I can't not pay it can I?
Is that hard to understand?

On Tuesday, 5 April 2016 20:58:59 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
"harry" wrote in message
...
On Monday, 4 April 2016 20:55:00 UTC+1, dennis@home wrote:
On 04/04/2016 17:02, harry wrote:

I would think they will just use APNR cameras and send you a bill for
each one passed.

I think it would be possible to devise routes to avoid passing them.


Given how many people are getting fined for being on the road without
tax I doubt if its easy.

There is no road tax to pay on electric cars.

Irrelevant to whether it can't be that easy to avoid the APNR cameras.

There is a network of small lanes in most places in the UK.
Easy to circumvent any particular spot for a local person.
ie cameras.

On Wed, 6 Apr 2016 00:12:32 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

snip

As there is no tax to pay, I can't not pay it can I?

That was always interesting 20+ years ago when getting my 'Tax disk'
for my electric car from the local Post Office.

I would hand over my paperwork (renewal form and insurance cert) and
get given a tax disk. No cash, no MOT and that raised a few eyebrows.
;-)

Cheers, T i m

On Wed, 6 Apr 2016 00:12:32 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

On Tuesday, 5 April 2016 16:43:46 UTC+1, wrote:
On Tue, 5 Apr 2016 08:16:32 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

On Monday, 4 April 2016 20:55:00 UTC+1, dennis@home wrote:
On 04/04/2016 17:02, harry wrote:

I would think they will just use APNR cameras and send you a bill for
each one passed.

I think it would be possible to devise routes to avoid passing them.


Given how many people are getting fined for being on the road without
tax I doubt if its easy.




There is no road tax to pay on electric cars.

How does that stop their number plates being read by an APNR system
you **** for brains geriatric, or are you going to claim that electric
cars have special ones that cannot be read by an APNR camera.
You seem to be losing the ability to think logically ,Alzheimer's
getting worse?

As there is no tax to pay, I can't not pay it can I?
Is that hard to understand?

The suggestion was that the ANPR systems could be used to charge for
road use or as a mechanism to charge more for the use of electric
vehicles in the future as taxing an additional amount on their energy
from various charge points and separating that from other electric
used in a home seems to be difficult, though as electricity is already
delivered at different tariff from different meters I suppose you
could have a dedicated one.
Nothing to do with what Road tax is charged.
It seems that you no longer have the power to think rationally.
No doubt you were once a skilled engineer as the odd sensible posting
that still emanates from you shows, probably quite an interesting chap
as well with you experimentation and probably a bit of a laugh.
But your age is destroying all that, Your OT postings show a desire to
crave attention , maybe the onset of aged related illness and the
personality change to a mean minded,argue to the death even when you
are obviously wrong,miserable git means nobody can be bothered to
socialise with you in normal life.

G.Harman

On Wed, 6 Apr 2016 00:14:06 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:



Given how many people are getting fined for being on the road without
tax I doubt if its easy.

There is no road tax to pay on electric cars.

Irrelevant to whether it can't be that easy to avoid the APNR cameras.

There is a network of small lanes in most places in the UK.
Easy to circumvent any particular spot for a local person.
ie cameras.
My Dad used the same principle when he stuck windows in an Anglia van
circa 1960 which potentially made it liable for purchase tax or
something like that. Meant we never took that vehicle to town
in case it was spotted or had a prang.
But without another car it would have been awkward.
Are you suggesting that an Electric car user can hide the use of the
vehicle by just driving around to the village shop, that is hardly
going to make them a mass market item in the places where they will
work best in towns and suburbs. And with tracking technology
available should the authorities require it to be fitted there will be
few places to hide.
Any how there various ways to apply a charge , eg miles beetween MOT
checks and then pay up. Onus on vehicle owner to prove what wasn't ona
public road.

G.Harman

On Fri, 1 Apr 2016 23:55:39 -0700 (PDT), harry wrote:

So what sort of driver is it aimed at long distance ?
but can only do 215 miles.....

Wage slave commuters.

With a new battery! What mileage can it achieve on a single charge
when
the battery is a 1 or 2 years old?

Lots of people here rabbiting on with zero knowledge.
My car is 2012, any battery deterioration is undetectable.

How many miles has it done? Since mid 2012 I've done about 55,000
miles.
Which is over 250 full charge discharge cycles at 215 miles/charge.
Far more actaual charge events would happen in reality.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Fri, 01 Apr 2016 20:34:44 +0100, John Rumm wrote:

Either way it's a good deal, but does not factor the massive
capital
cost of a Tesla!

And don't forget that if lots of people did it, they would find a way of
taxing it! ;-)

Or the overall increase in the electricty bill with an E7 tariff
instead of the best deal normal one.

--
Cheers
Dave.

"harry" wrote in message
...
On Tuesday, 5 April 2016 20:58:59 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
"harry" wrote in message
...
On Monday, 4 April 2016 20:55:00 UTC+1, dennis@home wrote:
On 04/04/2016 17:02, harry wrote:

I would think they will just use APNR cameras and send you a bill
for
each one passed.

I think it would be possible to devise routes to avoid passing them.


Given how many people are getting fined for being on the road without
tax I doubt if its easy.

There is no road tax to pay on electric cars.

Irrelevant to whether it can't be that easy to avoid the APNR cameras.

There is a network of small lanes in most places in the UK.
Easy to circumvent any particular spot for a local person.
ie cameras.

And yet all those people are fined for being on the road without tax.

On Sat, 02 Apr 2016 12:13:18 +0100, John Rumm wrote:

I have a friend with a Nissan Leaf - heating it does indeed make quite
an impact on the range. You can mitigate it a bit by having it preheat
while still connected to the mains (there is a remote control app for
your phone). His model seems a bit daft in that it uses an electrical
resistance heater to heat water, which is then circulated through a
conventional car style heating system.

Using the water as a heat bank? Seems sensible...

Later models apparently now include a heat pump style heater which takes
less power.

That makes sense when you are relying on the battery, 1 kW in 2 to 3
kW out...

--
Cheers
Dave.

wrote in message
...
On Wed, 6 Apr 2016 00:12:32 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

On Tuesday, 5 April 2016 16:43:46 UTC+1, wrote:
On Tue, 5 Apr 2016 08:16:32 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

On Monday, 4 April 2016 20:55:00 UTC+1, dennis@home wrote:
On 04/04/2016 17:02, harry wrote:

I would think they will just use APNR cameras and send you a bill
for
each one passed.

I think it would be possible to devise routes to avoid passing
them.


Given how many people are getting fined for being on the road without
tax I doubt if its easy.




There is no road tax to pay on electric cars.

How does that stop their number plates being read by an APNR system
you **** for brains geriatric, or are you going to claim that electric
cars have special ones that cannot be read by an APNR camera.
You seem to be losing the ability to think logically ,Alzheimer's
getting worse?

As there is no tax to pay, I can't not pay it can I?
Is that hard to understand?

The suggestion was that the ANPR systems could be used to charge for
road use or as a mechanism to charge more for the use of electric
vehicles in the future as taxing an additional amount on their energy
from various charge points and separating that from other electric
used in a home seems to be difficult, though as electricity is already
delivered at different tariff from different meters I suppose you
could have a dedicated one.
Nothing to do with what Road tax is charged.

It seems that you no longer have the power to think rationally.

He never did have.

No doubt you were once a skilled engineer

Maybe not given that he got the bums rush from the NHS.

as the odd sensible posting that
still emanates from you shows,

That is just someone pretending to be harry.

probably quite an interesting chap as well with you
experimentation and probably a bit of a laugh.
But your age is destroying all that,

His rabid bigoted raving in spades.

Your OT postings show a desire to crave attention ,
maybe the onset of aged related illness and the
personality change to a mean minded,argue to the
death even when you are obviously wrong,miserable
git means nobody can be bothered to socialise with
you in normal life.

That's because the rabid blood shot eyes and fleck of
foam about the lips tends to make most wonder when
they will be bitten and end up with rabies.

On Tuesday, 5 April 2016 17:19:33 UTC+1, Mr Macaw wrote:
On Tue, 05 Apr 2016 16:47:37 +0100, whisky-dave wrote:

On Tuesday, 5 April 2016 14:05:44 UTC+1, Mr Macaw wrote:
On Fri, 01 Apr 2016 21:07:31 +0100, alan_m wrote:

On 01/04/2016 13:23, Tim Watts wrote:


Either way it's a good deal, but does not factor the massive capital
cost of a Tesla!

But how long will it be before the government decide that they have to
tax the electricity to charge a car at the equivalent rate as the tax or
petrol/diesel? Why do you think that they want smart meters fitted to
every household?

Can they tell the difference between green and red electrons or something?

No but the blue ones are easy to spot. That's when they use E7 'charging' ;-)

But I might be charging 1 million mp3 players! I don't want fuel tax on that!

Then don't plug in 1 million mp3 players at the same time then.
As this would be how a smartmeter could detect and know what you are plugging in.
I do know someone that was writing an app for use with smartmeters.

On Wednesday, 6 April 2016 07:59:29 UTC+1, harry wrote:
On Tuesday, 5 April 2016 16:53:14 UTC+1, whisky-dave wrote:
On Tuesday, 5 April 2016 16:12:17 UTC+1, harry wrote:
On Tuesday, 5 April 2016 09:51:32 UTC+1, tony sayer wrote:
In article ,
harry scribeth thus
On Friday, 1 April 2016 21:14:26 UTC+1, alan_m wrote:
On 01/04/2016 15:47, whisky-dave wrote:


So what sort of driver is it aimed at long distance ?
but can only do 215 miles.....


With a new battery! What mileage can it achieve on a single charge when
the battery is a 1 or 2 years old?


--
mailto: news {at} admac {dot] myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

Lots of people here rabbiting on with zero knowledge.
My car is 2012, any battery deterioration is undetectable.

Well well Harry, perhaps you've e found a way to reverse chemical ageing
you might get a Nobel prize for that!!....

--
Tony Sayer


Well ****-fer-brains, you don't suppose electric cars are not fitted with range remaining and battery charge condition instruments?
If so you must be really brain dead.

I thought petrol and desal cars had similar for their fuel.
Does it stop people running out of fuel....

When you have an electric car, you develop a condition known as range anxiety.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Range_anxiety

As they say it's just another thing that puts some off an electric car.

of course maybe there's a chance that there's a small battery you could use in the same ways as the can of pertol you keep in the boot for emergencies or you could just carry a mile or two of extention lead.

Or maybe carry a solar panel or windmill in the boot. If you realy only wanted to use green renewable energy ;-)

On Wednesday, 6 April 2016 10:07:46 UTC+1, wrote:
On Wed, 6 Apr 2016 00:12:32 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

On Tuesday, 5 April 2016 16:43:46 UTC+1, wrote:
On Tue, 5 Apr 2016 08:16:32 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

On Monday, 4 April 2016 20:55:00 UTC+1, dennis@home wrote:
On 04/04/2016 17:02, harry wrote:

I would think they will just use APNR cameras and send you a bill for
each one passed.

I think it would be possible to devise routes to avoid passing them.


Given how many people are getting fined for being on the road without
tax I doubt if its easy.




There is no road tax to pay on electric cars.

How does that stop their number plates being read by an APNR system
you **** for brains geriatric, or are you going to claim that electric
cars have special ones that cannot be read by an APNR camera.
You seem to be losing the ability to think logically ,Alzheimer's
getting worse?

As there is no tax to pay, I can't not pay it can I?
Is that hard to understand?

The suggestion was that the ANPR systems could be used to charge for
road use or as a mechanism to charge more for the use of electric
vehicles in the future as taxing an additional amount on their energy
from various charge points and separating that from other electric
used in a home seems to be difficult, though as electricity is already
delivered at different tariff from different meters I suppose you
could have a dedicated one.
Nothing to do with what Road tax is charged.
It seems that you no longer have the power to think rationally.
No doubt you were once a skilled engineer as the odd sensible posting
that still emanates from you shows, probably quite an interesting chap
as well with you experimentation and probably a bit of a laugh.
But your age is destroying all that, Your OT postings show a desire to
crave attention , maybe the onset of aged related illness and the
personality change to a mean minded,argue to the death even when you
are obviously wrong,miserable git means nobody can be bothered to
socialise with you in normal life.

G.Harman

I was responding to Denise ****-fer-brains who brought up the matter of road tax. Isee you have lost the ability of simple comprehension.
Conversation is pasted below as you seem to be too thick to to find it.

On Monday, 4 April 2016 20:55:00 UTC+1, dennis@home wrote:
On 04/04/2016 17:02, harry wrote:

I would think they will just use APNR cameras and send you a bill for
each one passed.

I think it would be possible to devise routes to avoid passing them.


Given how many people are getting fined for being on the road without
tax I doubt if its easy.

There is no road tax to pay on electric cars.

On Wednesday, 6 April 2016 10:21:43 UTC+1, wrote:
On Wed, 6 Apr 2016 00:14:06 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:



Given how many people are getting fined for being on the road without
tax I doubt if its easy.

There is no road tax to pay on electric cars.

Irrelevant to whether it can't be that easy to avoid the APNR cameras.

There is a network of small lanes in most places in the UK.
Easy to circumvent any particular spot for a local person.
ie cameras.
My Dad used the same principle when he stuck windows in an Anglia van
circa 1960 which potentially made it liable for purchase tax or
something like that. Meant we never took that vehicle to town
in case it was spotted or had a prang.
But without another car it would have been awkward.
Are you suggesting that an Electric car user can hide the use of the
vehicle by just driving around to the village shop, that is hardly
going to make them a mass market item in the places where they will
work best in towns and suburbs. And with tracking technology
available should the authorities require it to be fitted there will be
few places to hide.
Any how there various ways to apply a charge , eg miles beetween MOT
checks and then pay up. Onus on vehicle owner to prove what wasn't ona
public road.

G.Harman

Being thick again!
I have no need to do such thing at the moment as there is no tax to pay and in any case there is no such taxation system run by cameras.

But if there were, it would be easy to evade it.
And no-one could ever prove you had deliberately evaded it.

On 06/04/2016 08:14, harry wrote:

There is a network of small lanes in most places in the UK.
Easy to circumvent any particular spot for a local person.
ie cameras.


So they aren't going to put cameras anywhere you want to drive then?
Outside the supermarket, the doctors, the pub, etc.

They are going to stop using mobile ones too I suppose.

On Wednesday, 6 April 2016 10:33:20 UTC+1, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Fri, 1 Apr 2016 23:55:39 -0700 (PDT), harry wrote:

So what sort of driver is it aimed at long distance ?
but can only do 215 miles.....

Wage slave commuters.

With a new battery! What mileage can it achieve on a single charge
when
the battery is a 1 or 2 years old?

Lots of people here rabbiting on with zero knowledge.
My car is 2012, any battery deterioration is undetectable.

How many miles has it done? Since mid 2012 I've done about 55,000
miles.
Which is over 250 full charge discharge cycles at 215 miles/charge.
Far more actaual charge events would happen in reality.

--
Cheers
Dave.

It has only done 15,000 miles.
I use it locally, for long distances/more comfort, I use my other car.

Full discharges never happen.
The chances of being marooned are too great.
I have only twice run it to less than 10% charge remaining.
Usually it is only run to 75% remaining. Or thereabouts.

It's hard to pre-assess your range on a new route, there are so many factors.
I use Google Earth to get the mileage and check hills etc on an OS map.
I can usually get within 10% but it's dodgy on extreme range journeys.

Even wind and temperature make a difference (which only matters on extreme range.)
And cab heater use can **** things up altogether. Could knock 25% off total range.
It does have electrically heated seats which uses less.

You can improve range by cunning driving/route selection.

On Wednesday, 6 April 2016 16:36:26 UTC+1, harry wrote:
On Wednesday, 6 April 2016 10:33:20 UTC+1, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Fri, 1 Apr 2016 23:55:39 -0700 (PDT), harry wrote:

So what sort of driver is it aimed at long distance ?
but can only do 215 miles.....

Wage slave commuters.

With a new battery! What mileage can it achieve on a single charge
when
the battery is a 1 or 2 years old?

Lots of people here rabbiting on with zero knowledge.
My car is 2012, any battery deterioration is undetectable.

How many miles has it done? Since mid 2012 I've done about 55,000
miles.
Which is over 250 full charge discharge cycles at 215 miles/charge.
Far more actaual charge events would happen in reality.

--
Cheers
Dave.

It has only done 15,000 miles.
I use it locally, for long distances/more comfort, I use my other car.

So you need 2 cars.


Full discharges never happen.

Well that's a relief.

The chances of being marooned are too great.
I have only twice run it to less than 10% charge remaining.
Usually it is only run to 75% remaining. Or thereabouts.

For me this would be considered a cost, in that not being sure I could get to where I was going. I don;t own a car but when friend go anywhere they never seem to worry whethe ror not they;ll havce enough petrol to get where they are going just whethe they have enough to go to the nearest or prefered garage.


It's hard to pre-assess your range on a new route, there are so many factors.
I use Google Earth to get the mileage and check hills etc on an OS map.
I can usually get within 10% but it's dodgy on extreme range journeys.

I can understand that and with petrol or diesel it's hardly a problem a friend has a similar problem with LPG.


Even wind and temperature make a difference (which only matters on extreme range.)
And cab heater use can **** things up altogether. Could knock 25% off total range.
It does have electrically heated seats which uses less.

You can improve range by cunning driving/route selection.

But all these things concern people when choosing a car or any product hopefuly they'll get much better range and charging speed then more will consider them as viable options.

On 06/04/2016 16:20, harry wrote:
On Wednesday, 6 April 2016 10:07:46 UTC+1, wrote:
On Wed, 6 Apr 2016 00:12:32 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

On Tuesday, 5 April 2016 16:43:46 UTC+1, wrote:
On Tue, 5 Apr 2016 08:16:32 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

On Monday, 4 April 2016 20:55:00 UTC+1, dennis@home wrote:
On 04/04/2016 17:02, harry wrote:

I would think they will just use APNR cameras and send you a bill for
each one passed.

I think it would be possible to devise routes to avoid passing them.


Given how many people are getting fined for being on the road without
tax I doubt if its easy.




There is no road tax to pay on electric cars.

How does that stop their number plates being read by an APNR system
you **** for brains geriatric, or are you going to claim that electric
cars have special ones that cannot be read by an APNR camera.
You seem to be losing the ability to think logically ,Alzheimer's
getting worse?

As there is no tax to pay, I can't not pay it can I?
Is that hard to understand?

The suggestion was that the ANPR systems could be used to charge for
road use or as a mechanism to charge more for the use of electric
vehicles in the future as taxing an additional amount on their energy
from various charge points and separating that from other electric
used in a home seems to be difficult, though as electricity is already
delivered at different tariff from different meters I suppose you
could have a dedicated one.
Nothing to do with what Road tax is charged.
It seems that you no longer have the power to think rationally.
No doubt you were once a skilled engineer as the odd sensible posting
that still emanates from you shows, probably quite an interesting chap
as well with you experimentation and probably a bit of a laugh.
But your age is destroying all that, Your OT postings show a desire to
crave attention , maybe the onset of aged related illness and the
personality change to a mean minded,argue to the death even when you
are obviously wrong,miserable git means nobody can be bothered to
socialise with you in normal life.

G.Harman

I was responding to Denise ****-fer-brains who brought up the matter of road tax. Isee you have lost the ability of simple comprehension.
Conversation is pasted below as you seem to be too thick to to find it.

If you can't understand the posts why don't you ask a five year old to
help you?

On 06/04/2016 16:36, harry wrote:
On Wednesday, 6 April 2016 10:33:20 UTC+1, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Fri, 1 Apr 2016 23:55:39 -0700 (PDT), harry wrote:

So what sort of driver is it aimed at long distance ?
but can only do 215 miles.....

Wage slave commuters.

With a new battery! What mileage can it achieve on a single charge
when
the battery is a 1 or 2 years old?

Lots of people here rabbiting on with zero knowledge.
My car is 2012, any battery deterioration is undetectable.

How many miles has it done? Since mid 2012 I've done about 55,000
miles.
Which is over 250 full charge discharge cycles at 215 miles/charge.
Far more actaual charge events would happen in reality.

--
Cheers
Dave.

It has only done 15,000 miles.
I use it locally, for long distances/more comfort, I use my other car.

Really green isn't it, having two lots of carbon costs for the
production of a car so you can have one to use locally and the other
when it won't work.


Full discharges never happen.
The chances of being marooned are too great.
I have only twice run it to less than 10% charge remaining.
Usually it is only run to 75% remaining. Or thereabouts.

Range anxiety, I bet you charge it every day.


It's hard to pre-assess your range on a new route, there are so many factors.
I use Google Earth to get the mileage and check hills etc on an OS map.
I can usually get within 10% but it's dodgy on extreme range journeys.

Even wind and temperature make a difference (which only matters on extreme range.)
And cab heater use can **** things up altogether. Could knock 25% off total range.
It does have electrically heated seats which uses less.

You can improve range by cunning driving/route selection.


To avoid the ANPR cameras?

"dennis@home" wrote in message
web.com...
On 06/04/2016 16:36, harry wrote:
On Wednesday, 6 April 2016 10:33:20 UTC+1, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Fri, 1 Apr 2016 23:55:39 -0700 (PDT), harry wrote:

So what sort of driver is it aimed at long distance ?
but can only do 215 miles.....

Wage slave commuters.

With a new battery! What mileage can it achieve on a single charge
when
the battery is a 1 or 2 years old?

Lots of people here rabbiting on with zero knowledge.
My car is 2012, any battery deterioration is undetectable.

How many miles has it done? Since mid 2012 I've done about 55,000
miles.
Which is over 250 full charge discharge cycles at 215 miles/charge.
Far more actaual charge events would happen in reality.

--
Cheers
Dave.

It has only done 15,000 miles.
I use it locally, for long distances/more comfort, I use my other car.

Really green isn't it, having two lots of carbon costs for the production
of a car so you can have one to use locally and the other when it won't
work.

Yep

it's a sensible as telling people that they have to drive to their council
tip to recycle certain types of waste

tim

"harry" wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, 6 April 2016 10:07:46 UTC+1, wrote:
On Wed, 6 Apr 2016 00:12:32 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

On Tuesday, 5 April 2016 16:43:46 UTC+1, wrote:
On Tue, 5 Apr 2016 08:16:32 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

On Monday, 4 April 2016 20:55:00 UTC+1, dennis@home wrote:
On 04/04/2016 17:02, harry wrote:

I would think they will just use APNR cameras and send you a
bill for
each one passed.

I think it would be possible to devise routes to avoid passing
them.


Given how many people are getting fined for being on the road
without
tax I doubt if its easy.




There is no road tax to pay on electric cars.

How does that stop their number plates being read by an APNR system
you **** for brains geriatric, or are you going to claim that electric
cars have special ones that cannot be read by an APNR camera.
You seem to be losing the ability to think logically ,Alzheimer's
getting worse?

As there is no tax to pay, I can't not pay it can I?
Is that hard to understand?

The suggestion was that the ANPR systems could be used to charge for
road use or as a mechanism to charge more for the use of electric
vehicles in the future as taxing an additional amount on their energy
from various charge points and separating that from other electric
used in a home seems to be difficult, though as electricity is already
delivered at different tariff from different meters I suppose you
could have a dedicated one.
Nothing to do with what Road tax is charged.
It seems that you no longer have the power to think rationally.
No doubt you were once a skilled engineer as the odd sensible posting
that still emanates from you shows, probably quite an interesting chap
as well with you experimentation and probably a bit of a laugh.
But your age is destroying all that, Your OT postings show a desire to
crave attention , maybe the onset of aged related illness and the
personality change to a mean minded,argue to the death even when you
are obviously wrong,miserable git means nobody can be bothered to
socialise with you in normal life.

I was responding to Denise ****-fer-brains who brought up the matter of
road tax.

Because clearly those who get caught not having paid it
couldn't avoid the ANPR cameras that check for that so
it wouldn't work if ANPR cameras were used to impose
a usage fee with electric cars either.

Isee you have lost the ability of simple comprehension.

We can all see that you never had anything like that.

Conversation is pasted below as you seem to be too thick to to find it.

Which proves that all you have between those ears is dog ****.

On Monday, 4 April 2016 20:55:00 UTC+1, dennis@home wrote:
On 04/04/2016 17:02, harry wrote:

I would think they will just use APNR cameras and send you a bill for
each one passed.

I think it would be possible to devise routes to avoid passing them.


Given how many people are getting fined for being on the road without
tax I doubt if its easy.

There is no road tax to pay on electric cars.

"dennis@home" wrote in message
eb.com...
On 06/04/2016 16:20, harry wrote:
On Wednesday, 6 April 2016 10:07:46 UTC+1, wrote:
On Wed, 6 Apr 2016 00:12:32 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

On Tuesday, 5 April 2016 16:43:46 UTC+1, wrote:
On Tue, 5 Apr 2016 08:16:32 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

On Monday, 4 April 2016 20:55:00 UTC+1, dennis@home wrote:
On 04/04/2016 17:02, harry wrote:

I would think they will just use APNR cameras and send you a bill
for
each one passed.

I think it would be possible to devise routes to avoid passing
them.


Given how many people are getting fined for being on the road
without
tax I doubt if its easy.




There is no road tax to pay on electric cars.

How does that stop their number plates being read by an APNR system
you **** for brains geriatric, or are you going to claim that electric
cars have special ones that cannot be read by an APNR camera.
You seem to be losing the ability to think logically ,Alzheimer's
getting worse?

As there is no tax to pay, I can't not pay it can I?
Is that hard to understand?

The suggestion was that the ANPR systems could be used to charge for
road use or as a mechanism to charge more for the use of electric
vehicles in the future as taxing an additional amount on their energy
from various charge points and separating that from other electric
used in a home seems to be difficult, though as electricity is already
delivered at different tariff from different meters I suppose you
could have a dedicated one.
Nothing to do with what Road tax is charged.
It seems that you no longer have the power to think rationally.
No doubt you were once a skilled engineer as the odd sensible posting
that still emanates from you shows, probably quite an interesting chap
as well with you experimentation and probably a bit of a laugh.
But your age is destroying all that, Your OT postings show a desire to
crave attention , maybe the onset of aged related illness and the
personality change to a mean minded,argue to the death even when you
are obviously wrong,miserable git means nobody can be bothered to
socialise with you in normal life.

G.Harman

I was responding to Denise ****-fer-brains who brought up the matter of
road tax. Isee you have lost the ability of simple comprehension.
Conversation is pasted below as you seem to be too thick to to find it.

If you can't understand the posts why don't you ask a five year old to
help you?

Because no one is actually silly enough to let him anywhere near one.

On Wed, 6 Apr 2016 08:20:25 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

On Wednesday, 6 April 2016 10:07:46 UTC+1, wrote:
On Wed, 6 Apr 2016 00:12:32 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

On Tuesday, 5 April 2016 16:43:46 UTC+1, wrote:
On Tue, 5 Apr 2016 08:16:32 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

On Monday, 4 April 2016 20:55:00 UTC+1, dennis@home wrote:
On 04/04/2016 17:02, harry wrote:

I would think they will just use APNR cameras and send you a bill for
each one passed.

I think it would be possible to devise routes to avoid passing them.


Given how many people are getting fined for being on the road without
tax I doubt if its easy.




There is no road tax to pay on electric cars.

How does that stop their number plates being read by an APNR system
you **** for brains geriatric, or are you going to claim that electric
cars have special ones that cannot be read by an APNR camera.
You seem to be losing the ability to think logically ,Alzheimer's
getting worse?

As there is no tax to pay, I can't not pay it can I?
Is that hard to understand?

The suggestion was that the ANPR systems could be used to charge for
road use or as a mechanism to charge more for the use of electric
vehicles in the future as taxing an additional amount on their energy
from various charge points and separating that from other electric
used in a home seems to be difficult, though as electricity is already
delivered at different tariff from different meters I suppose you
could have a dedicated one.
Nothing to do with what Road tax is charged.
It seems that you no longer have the power to think rationally.
No doubt you were once a skilled engineer as the odd sensible posting
that still emanates from you shows, probably quite an interesting chap
as well with you experimentation and probably a bit of a laugh.
But your age is destroying all that, Your OT postings show a desire to
crave attention , maybe the onset of aged related illness and the
personality change to a mean minded,argue to the death even when you
are obviously wrong,miserable git means nobody can be bothered to
socialise with you in normal life.

G.Harman

I was responding to Denise ****-fer-brains who brought up the matter of road tax. Isee you have lost the ability of simple comprehension.
Conversation is pasted below as you seem to be too thick to to find it.

On Monday, 4 April 2016 20:55:00 UTC+1, dennis@home wrote:
On 04/04/2016 17:02, harry wrote:

I would think they will just use APNR cameras and send you a bill for
each one passed.

I think it would be possible to devise routes to avoid passing them.


Given how many people are getting fined for being on the road without
tax I doubt if its easy.

There is no road tax to pay on electric cars.


Why you are fixating on the one issue of road tax checking by ANPR
when it also used for other things and could be used in the future for
others shows the limitation to logical thinking that your aged mind
has reached.
Dennis used the use of ANPR being used to successfully find people
who avoid road tax now as an example of a system that could observe
the movements of cars in the future if that is needed and not that
easy to avoid , he did not say earlier in the discussion road tax he
said road pricing which is different. The Severn Bridge Toll and M6
Toll road are existing situations of that not too far from you,why
don't you try to use them in your electric car and try claiming that
because you don't pay road tax you don't have to pay a road pricing
charge either.

Do you think that if you drove your car through a Police ANPR check
and you didn't have a valid Mot or Insurance the coppers would just
shrug it off and mutter its an" electric car it doesn't pay road tax
so we will ignore it.

G.Harman

On Wed, 6 Apr 2016 08:24:34 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:


There is a network of small lanes in most places in the UK.
Easy to circumvent any particular spot for a local person.
ie cameras.
My Dad used the same principle when he stuck windows in an Anglia van
circa 1960 which potentially made it liable for purchase tax or
something like that. Meant we never took that vehicle to town
in case it was spotted or had a prang.


Being thick again!
I have no need to do such thing at the moment as there is no tax to pay and in any case there is no such taxation system run by cameras.

No one is claiming that you have to pay tax at the moment ,and the
suggestion for the future was for road pricing for using distance
driven along roads , perfectly feasible to have that and still have a
charge fixed charge for vehicles annually which at the moment is
commonly known as Road tax and which varies from Zero to quite a lot
depending on what class the vehicle is.

But if there were, it would be easy to evade it.
And no-one could ever prove you had deliberately evaded it.

Your naivety of how authorities if they really want to can observe
things shows how you are from another much simpler era much like those
old geezers who robbed the vault in Hatton Garden.

But as we are talking about what may happen in the future it is
understandable that you keep arguing based on the one hook that you
don't pay road tax in the present. At your age you will not see that
future so to think about it too much must be depressing.

G.Harman

On 02/04/2016 08:00, harry wrote:


It's a question of perceived value not deterioration.


Which is presuambly why the HiFi business still insists on selling boxes
that are 435 mm wide (?to keep the yanks happy) but contain mostly empty
space, with a modern miniture pcb tucked to one side.

On 01/04/2016 15:10, Another Dave wrote:

No. The point is that if this took off in a big way (and I hope it does)
the government would have to tax electricity used to charge cars to
maintain its revenue. I don't know how this would work but I'm certain
that it would happen.

Another Dave

And that is precisely what smart meters will be able to do. It knows
what is using power, so one day could simply slap the 'missing' fuel
duty and VAT onto your leccy bill.

On 06/04/2016 16:24, harry wrote:

But if there were, it would be easy to evade it.
And no-one could ever prove you had deliberately evaded it.

If your smart meter knows when your car is drawing power from the grid
then it will be easy to recover the 'missing' taxes.

On 01/04/2016 17:45, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:


I'm willing to bet no electric could do the average 200 mile commute on
one battery charge. Every day of the year.

'Average 200 mile commute' ??. What, daily ?.