Rather worryingly, a guy over the road had a relative with a Tesla staying
over the Christmas break. Apparently he says the problem his relative has
had thus far is one cell going down needing the whole battery to be replaced
under the warranty. I don't know what technology these batteries use, but
it does beg the question that could they fail and catch fire as laptop
batteries used to? Anyone know?

Obviously it is early days, and the people using these expensive vehicles
now are first adopters and pay dearly for that privilege.
The other issue is what about heating the car in the winter. Its fine if our
live in California, but not here or Scandinavia. this no doubt would push
the mileage down quite a lot.
Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Friday, 1 April 2016 13:24:04 UTC+1, Tim Watts wrote:
On 01/04/16 12:46, JoeJoe wrote:
Just saw the launch of the new Tesla car, and at a claimed 215m to a
charge, I can see myself perhaps being persuaded to consider the
technology at some stage in the not near or medium future.

I have seen quite a few charging points (or whatever they are called) -
in most large European cities. I assume that the cost of a charge is set
so that it would be marginally lower to run such cars compared to
petrol/diesel cars.

But what would be a rough estimate for the true cost of a charge (i.e.
when done at home)?

Using figures here and assuming you have Economy 7 at around 6p for 7
hours and 12p in the day (remaining hours):

https://driveandream.wordpress.com/2...del-s-at-home/


Do do a full recharge on a 32A single phase circuit (the usual if you
own an electric car and recharge it there - 13A is only really useful if
you are a remote site with no 32A option):

A full recharge is estimated to be about 11 hours at 7.3kW, so 7 at 6p
and 4 at 12p = £6.62

Or in terms of price/mile:

The same webpage suggests a charging rate of:

3.4 miles per kWh

So if using no more that 7 hours charging per night:

1.76p/mile

and if using day rate electricity:

3.53p/mile


For comparison, my diesel Touran at 50mpg costs around 9.6p per mile.


Either way it's a good deal, but does not factor the massive capital
cost of a Tesla!

Any idea what it'll cost for a replacement battery and how long they are
expected to last.

On 01/04/2016 15:53, whisky-dave wrote:

How long does it take to charge roughly from a public point.

Depends on the type..

80% charge in 1hr is common for cars with a 24kWhr battery.
80% charge in 30 minutes are about but not every car can use them as
they are high voltage DC and you need a special charger in the car.

The cheapest reasonable new electric car (eZoe) has a range of about 100
miles and can be bought for about £18k or about £20k with the fast DC
charger.

The range is less with the fast DC option due to the extra weight.

On 01/04/2016 15:10, Another Dave wrote:
On 01/04/16 15:00, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Another Dave wrote:
But what would be a rough estimate for the true cost of a charge (i.e.
when done at home)?

For a "true" cost (i.e. one that you could compare to a conventional
car) you would need to take into account the tax levied on petrol and
diesel but not on electricity.

Hardly. Unless you had a supply of tax free petrol, etc.


No. The point is that if this took off in a big way (and I hope it does)
the government would have to tax electricity used to charge cars to
maintain its revenue. I don't know how this would work but I'm certain
that it would happen.

Another Dave


Why do you think they have been looking at road pricing and having all
cars tracked?
I would think they will just use APNR cameras and send you a bill for
each one passed.

In article ,
Brian Gaff wrote:
Rather worryingly, a guy over the road had a relative with a Tesla
staying over the Christmas break. Apparently he says the problem his
relative has had thus far is one cell going down needing the whole
battery to be replaced under the warranty. I don't know what
technology these batteries use, but it does beg the question that could
they fail and catch fire as laptop batteries used to? Anyone know?

There were stories about Tesla refusing to honour the warranty if the car
was left unused and not plugged in for a relatively sort period. Like say
parking up at an airport while you went on holiday.

--
*Jokes about German sausage are the wurst.*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
John Rumm writes:

And don't forget that if lots of people did it, they would find a way of
taxing it! ;-)

If even a few people start doing it, the local substation transformers
will all burn out, never mind the supply network.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

In article ,
alan_m writes:
On 01/04/2016 13:50, Biggles wrote:
JoeJoe Wrote in message:
Just saw the launch of the new Tesla car, and at a claimed 215m to a
charge, I can see myself perhaps being persuaded to consider the
technology at some stage in the not near or medium future.

I have seen quite a few charging points (or whatever they are called) -
in most large European cities. I assume that the cost of a charge is set
so that it would be marginally lower to run such cars compared to
petrol/diesel cars.

But what would be a rough estimate for the true cost of a charge (i.e.
when done at home)?


Well the Model 3 seems to come with 44Kwh or 66Kwh battery, so
with the latter battery at say 13.5p per unit it would cost about
9 quid per 215 miles, plus charging losses - say +10%??? Battery
lease or replacement costs also need to be factored
in.


And in the British climate how much battery capacity will be used just
heating the passengers?

People with electric cars wear warm clothes. Turning on the heater
makes a severe dent in the milage coverage. Same with lighting.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On 02/04/2016 11:02, Brian Gaff wrote:
Rather worryingly, a guy over the road had a relative with a Tesla staying
over the Christmas break. Apparently he says the problem his relative has
had thus far is one cell going down needing the whole battery to be replaced
under the warranty. I don't know what technology these batteries use, but
it does beg the question that could they fail and catch fire as laptop
batteries used to? Anyone know?

Obviously it is early days, and the people using these expensive vehicles
now are first adopters and pay dearly for that privilege.
The other issue is what about heating the car in the winter. Its fine if our
live in California, but not here or Scandinavia. this no doubt would push
the mileage down quite a lot.

I have a friend with a Nissan Leaf - heating it does indeed make quite
an impact on the range. You can mitigate it a bit by having it preheat
while still connected to the mains (there is a remote control app for
your phone). His model seems a bit daft in that it uses an electrical
resistance heater to heat water, which is then circulated through a
conventional car style heating system. In fact it seems to pre heat the
water even during the summer when its not needed. Later models
apparently now include a heat pump style heater which takes less power.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 02/04/2016 11:24, dennis@home wrote:
On 01/04/2016 15:53, whisky-dave wrote:

How long does it take to charge roughly from a public point.

Depends on the type..

80% charge in 1hr is common for cars with a 24kWhr battery.
80% charge in 30 minutes are about but not every car can use them as
they are high voltage DC and you need a special charger in the car.

The cheapest reasonable new electric car (eZoe) has a range of about 100
miles and can be bought for about £18k or about £20k with the fast DC
charger.

The range is less with the fast DC option due to the extra weight.

Also worth noting that on many of the cars even the fast charging lead
is an "extra"... IIRC Nissan wanted over £400 for one of theirs.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

"Tim Watts" wrote in message
...


For comparison, my diesel Touran at 50mpg costs around 9.6p per mile.


Either way it's a good deal, but does not factor the massive capital cost
of a Tesla!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0EQetm_qWDg

--
Adam

On 02/04/16 17:47, ARW wrote:
"Tim Watts" wrote in message
...


For comparison, my diesel Touran at 50mpg costs around 9.6p per mile.


Either way it's a good deal, but does not factor the massive capital
cost of a Tesla!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0EQetm_qWDg


I cycled past one at the bottom of Reigate Hill[1] heading upwards.

How I chortled...

[1] is a mile long slog of moderately steep hill

"dennis@home" wrote in message
web.com...
On 01/04/2016 15:10, Another Dave wrote:
On 01/04/16 15:00, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Another Dave wrote:
But what would be a rough estimate for the true cost of a charge (i.e.
when done at home)?

For a "true" cost (i.e. one that you could compare to a conventional
car) you would need to take into account the tax levied on petrol and
diesel but not on electricity.

Hardly. Unless you had a supply of tax free petrol, etc.


No. The point is that if this took off in a big way (and I hope it does)
the government would have to tax electricity used to charge cars to
maintain its revenue. I don't know how this would work but I'm certain
that it would happen.

Another Dave


Why do you think they have been looking at road pricing and having all
cars tracked?
I would think they will just use APNR cameras and send you a bill for each
one passed.

Not really practical to track all car movements that way.

"Tim Watts" wrote in message
...
On 02/04/16 17:47, ARW wrote:
"Tim Watts" wrote in message
...


For comparison, my diesel Touran at 50mpg costs around 9.6p per mile.


Either way it's a good deal, but does not factor the massive capital
cost of a Tesla!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0EQetm_qWDg


I cycled past one at the bottom of Reigate Hill[1] heading upwards.

How I chortled...

[1] is a mile long slog of moderately steep hill



And this one

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5N937V8ZOw

Different running costs!

--
Adam

In article , John
Rumm writes
On 01/04/2016 13:23, Tim Watts wrote:
On 01/04/16 12:46, JoeJoe wrote:
Just saw the launch of the new Tesla car, and at a claimed 215m to a
charge, I can see myself perhaps being persuaded to consider the
technology at some stage in the not near or medium future.

I have seen quite a few charging points (or whatever they are called) -
in most large European cities. I assume that the cost of a charge is set
so that it would be marginally lower to run such cars compared to
petrol/diesel cars.

But what would be a rough estimate for the true cost of a charge (i.e.
when done at home)?

Using figures here and assuming you have Economy 7 at around 6p for 7
hours and 12p in the day (remaining hours):


https://driveandream.wordpress.com/2...ge-your-tesla-
model-s-at-home/



Do do a full recharge on a 32A single phase circuit (the usual if you
own an electric car and recharge it there - 13A is only really useful if
you are a remote site with no 32A option):

A full recharge is estimated to be about 11 hours at 7.3kW, so 7 at 6p
and 4 at 12p = £6.62

Or in terms of price/mile:

The same webpage suggests a charging rate of:

3.4 miles per kWh

So if using no more that 7 hours charging per night:

1.76p/mile

and if using day rate electricity:

3.53p/mile


For comparison, my diesel Touran at 50mpg costs around 9.6p per mile.


Either way it's a good deal, but does not factor the massive capital
cost of a Tesla!

And don't forget that if lots of people did it, they would find a way
of taxing it! ;-)


If lots and lots of people did it I suspect the grid would be stuffed.
--
bert

On 03/04/16 20:46, bert wrote:
In article , John
Rumm writes
On 01/04/2016 13:23, Tim Watts wrote:
On 01/04/16 12:46, JoeJoe wrote:
Just saw the launch of the new Tesla car, and at a claimed 215m to a
charge, I can see myself perhaps being persuaded to consider the
technology at some stage in the not near or medium future.

I have seen quite a few charging points (or whatever they are called) -
in most large European cities. I assume that the cost of a charge is
set
so that it would be marginally lower to run such cars compared to
petrol/diesel cars.

But what would be a rough estimate for the true cost of a charge (i.e.
when done at home)?

Using figures here and assuming you have Economy 7 at around 6p for 7
hours and 12p in the day (remaining hours):


https://driveandream.wordpress.com/2...ge-your-tesla-
model-s-at-home/



Do do a full recharge on a 32A single phase circuit (the usual if you
own an electric car and recharge it there - 13A is only really useful if
you are a remote site with no 32A option):

A full recharge is estimated to be about 11 hours at 7.3kW, so 7 at 6p
and 4 at 12p = £6.62

Or in terms of price/mile:

The same webpage suggests a charging rate of:

3.4 miles per kWh

So if using no more that 7 hours charging per night:

1.76p/mile

and if using day rate electricity:

3.53p/mile


For comparison, my diesel Touran at 50mpg costs around 9.6p per mile.


Either way it's a good deal, but does not factor the massive capital
cost of a Tesla!

And don't forget that if lots of people did it, they would find a way
of taxing it! ;-)


If lots and lots of people did it I suspect the grid would be stuffed.

It may not be - they would probably be doing it overnight mostly - and
there's a lot of spare capacity then.

On 02/04/2016 11:24, dennis@home wrote:

The cheapest reasonable new electric car (eZoe) has a range of about 100
miles and can be bought for about £18k or about £20k with the fast DC
charger.

I couldn't find that. I assume you mean the Renault Zoe? No e?

Battery rental is £70 per month at least. And it's mandatory. That comes
in around 11p per mile. (7500 miles per year for that rate)

Which is nearly as much as I pay in petrol for a car that's much more fun.

Andy

In article ,
Tim Watts writes:
On 03/04/16 20:46, bert wrote:
If lots and lots of people did it I suspect the grid would be stuffed.

It may not be - they would probably be doing it overnight mostly - and
there's a lot of spare capacity then.

Supplies to housing estates are worked out assuming an After Diversity
Maximum Demand (ADMD) rating per house, which is typically 2kW, but
dropping as low as 1kW for small terraced houses. (For electrically
heated homes, the electric heating load is added on top.)

If many homes plug in electric cars for charging even just at night, it
will blow the substation fuses at best. There was an incident in Luton
some years ago where a large number of gas meters were destroyed when
a high pressure gas main was accidentally connected to the street
supply, and the gas had to be disconnected from a housing estate for
some days whilst all the gas meters and regulators were replaced. The
gas company dropped off a 2kW fan heater at each house. Then they all
lost their electrical power when the substation transformer literally
blew up.

Changing the power distribution for vehicles from petrol tankers over
to electricity supply network will require a significant upgrade of
the supply network, never mind the generation plant.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On 03/04/16 22:49, Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
Tim Watts writes:
On 03/04/16 20:46, bert wrote:
If lots and lots of people did it I suspect the grid would be stuffed.

It may not be - they would probably be doing it overnight mostly - and
there's a lot of spare capacity then.

Supplies to housing estates are worked out assuming an After Diversity
Maximum Demand (ADMD) rating per house, which is typically 2kW, but
dropping as low as 1kW for small terraced houses. (For electrically
heated homes, the electric heating load is added on top.)

If many homes plug in electric cars for charging even just at night, it
will blow the substation fuses at best. There was an incident in Luton
some years ago where a large number of gas meters were destroyed when
a high pressure gas main was accidentally connected to the street
supply, and the gas had to be disconnected from a housing estate for
some days whilst all the gas meters and regulators were replaced. The
gas company dropped off a 2kW fan heater at each house. Then they all
lost their electrical power when the substation transformer literally
blew up.

Changing the power distribution for vehicles from petrol tankers over
to electricity supply network will require a significant upgrade of
the supply network, never mind the generation plant.


The one thing here though is, unlike the 2kW heaters example, it's not
all going to happen at once - unless the government do something to
intervene.

32A single phase is 7.3kW and a full 11 hour charge at that rate (Model
S) equates to over 250 miles of driving (winter heating not factored)
IIRC. So you won't have the situation where everyone is fully charging
every night.

Also those 2kW heaters would have been on in the evening at the same
time as all the normal load.

Clearly you're right that ultimately, the system will need upgrading -
but I think there's going to be time to deal with that provided people
do actually charge the things overnight on cheap rate.

I'd say the biggest problem is the generating capacity and the
"destination" and superchargers that will get used heavily in the day.
In London, there are a number of day time charging points springing up
that generally have a Nissan jacked in all day while someone is at teh
office. Trivial number now, but it could grow.

On Saturday, 2 April 2016 04:00:17 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
whisky-dave wrote
harry wrote
RJH wrote

Yes indeed. Plus one of the largest costs of car ownership -
depreciation.

Depreciation is high on current electric cars.

Why do they depreicate faster than ordinary cars

Because the batterys don't last anything like
as long as a conventional car engine does.

The battery isn't the whole car.




and if they do doesn't that make them
less useful per quid than a ordinary car.

Corse it does unless you buy them used.

So they'll be little trade in 2nd hand electric cars then, which makes them even more expensive.

On Saturday, 2 April 2016 08:00:29 UTC+1, harry wrote:
On Friday, 1 April 2016 15:53:06 UTC+1, whisky-dave wrote:
On Friday, 1 April 2016 15:06:12 UTC+1, harry wrote:
On Friday, 1 April 2016 14:40:53 UTC+1, RJH wrote:

Yes indeed. Plus one of the largest costs of car ownership - depreciation.

Depreciation is high on current electric cars.

Why do they depreicate faster than ordinary cars and if they do doesn't that make them less useful per quid than a ordinary car.


It's a question of perceived value not deterioration.

Then what is wrongly percived about a 2nd hand electric car ?




How long does it take to charge roughly from a public point.

How long is a piece of string?

Everyone knows the anwser when filling with a liquid fuel that's part of the point.


Depends on how "empty" the battery is.

easy to know how much fuel you have left in a tank.

From completely empty on the fastest points, 20 minutes to 80% full so I'm told.
(This is a situation that never arises)

How long does it take to fill a car for the same range ?

In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
Why do they depreicate faster than ordinary cars

Because the batterys don't last anything like
as long as a conventional car engine does.

The battery isn't the whole car.

No - but can be a major cost. And can cost more than the car is worth
used. A bit like drill batteries.

--
*There are two kinds of pedestrians... the quick and the dead.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Saturday, 2 April 2016 09:23:21 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
harry wrote
Another Dave wrote
Dave Plowman (News) wrote
Another Dave wrote

But what would be a rough estimate for the
true cost of a charge (i.e. when done at home)?

For a "true" cost (i.e. one that you could compare to a
conventional car) you would need to take into account
the tax levied on petrol and diesel but not on electricity.

Hardly. Unless you had a supply of tax free petrol, etc.

No. The point is that if this took off in a big way (and I hope
it does) the government would have to tax electricity used to
charge cars to maintain its revenue. I don't know how this
would work but I'm certain that it would happen.

They are working towards a black GPS box in everyone's car.

Bull**** they are.

We were doing that here 15 years ago, but was stopped due to the high costs
or what was needed, in those days accerleometers were expensive and also recording the information was expensive when retriving it.
But nowadays with accletometrs+gyros+GPS costing less than a beer
and most having them in their phones dedecated black boxes aren't really required.

On 04/04/16 07:50, Tim Watts wrote:
I'd say the biggest problem is the generating capacity and the
"destination" and superchargers that will get used heavily in the day.
In London, there are a number of day time charging points springing up
that generally have a Nissan jacked in all day while someone is at teh
office. Trivial number now, but it could grow.


If someone needed some free electricity to generate bitcoins, looks
perfect ...

--
Adrian C

On 04/04/16 12:32, Adrian Caspersz wrote:
On 04/04/16 07:50, Tim Watts wrote:
I'd say the biggest problem is the generating capacity and the
"destination" and superchargers that will get used heavily in the day.
In London, there are a number of day time charging points springing up
that generally have a Nissan jacked in all day while someone is at teh
office. Trivial number now, but it could grow.


If someone needed some free electricity to generate bitcoins, looks
perfect ...


You have to register to use those charging posts

On Saturday, 2 April 2016 11:26:08 UTC+1, dennis@home wrote:
On 01/04/2016 15:10, Another Dave wrote:
On 01/04/16 15:00, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Another Dave wrote:
But what would be a rough estimate for the true cost of a charge (i.e.
when done at home)?

For a "true" cost (i.e. one that you could compare to a conventional
car) you would need to take into account the tax levied on petrol and
diesel but not on electricity.

Hardly. Unless you had a supply of tax free petrol, etc.


No. The point is that if this took off in a big way (and I hope it does)
the government would have to tax electricity used to charge cars to
maintain its revenue. I don't know how this would work but I'm certain
that it would happen.

Another Dave


Why do you think they have been looking at road pricing and having all
cars tracked?
I would think they will just use APNR cameras and send you a bill for
each one passed.

I think it would be possible to devise routes to avoid passing them.

whisky-dave wrote
Rod Speed wrote
whisky-dave wrote
harry wrote
RJH wrote

Yes indeed. Plus one of the largest
costs of car ownership - depreciation.

Depreciation is high on current electric cars.

Why do they depreicate faster than ordinary cars

Because the batterys don't last anything like
as long as a conventional car engine does.

The battery isn't the whole car.

You quite sure you ain't one of those
rocket scientist drunken terminal ****wits ?

The battery is in fact by far the part of the
car that depreciates in value the most
with an electric car apart from the tyres
and with what is between the ears of the
driver if you are the owner of that car.

and if they do doesn't that make them
less useful per quid than a ordinary car.

Corse it does unless you buy them used.

So they'll be little trade in 2nd hand electric cars then,

Or there may be quite a bit with those who decide that
they are steaming turds with wheels getting rid of them
when they discover conventional cars are much better.

which makes them even more expensive.

It does indeed.

whisky-dave wrote
Rod Speed wrote
harry wrote
Another Dave wrote
Dave Plowman (News) wrote
Another Dave wrote

But what would be a rough estimate for the
true cost of a charge (i.e. when done at home)?

For a "true" cost (i.e. one that you could compare to a
conventional car) you would need to take into account
the tax levied on petrol and diesel but not on electricity.

Hardly. Unless you had a supply of tax free petrol, etc.

No. The point is that if this took off in a big way (and I hope
it does) the government would have to tax electricity used to
charge cars to maintain its revenue. I don't know how this
would work but I'm certain that it would happen.

They are working towards a black GPS box in everyone's car.

Bull**** they are.

We were doing that here 15 years ago,

No you weren't.

but was stopped due to the high costs

It never started.

or what was needed, in those days accerleometers were expensive

Accelerometers aren't GPSs.

and also recording the information was expensive when retriving it.
But nowadays with accletometrs+gyros+GPS costing less than a beer
and most having them in their phones dedecated black boxes aren't
really required.

They are if you want to track the car and not the phone.

And the problem isnt the cost, no country is ever going to let anyone
track all cars everywhere, even you lot aren't actually that stupid.

On 04/04/2016 17:02, harry wrote:

I would think they will just use APNR cameras and send you a bill for
each one passed.

I think it would be possible to devise routes to avoid passing them.


Given how many people are getting fined for being on the road without
tax I doubt if its easy.

Have you seen that you can now get £6k off the price of a new Renault
zoe bringing it down to less than £10k?
Looks like electric cars aren't selling.

On Monday, 4 April 2016 20:55:00 UTC+1, dennis@home wrote:
On 04/04/2016 17:02, harry wrote:

I would think they will just use APNR cameras and send you a bill for
each one passed.

I think it would be possible to devise routes to avoid passing them.


Given how many people are getting fined for being on the road without
tax I doubt if its easy.

Have you seen that you can now get £6k off the price of a new Renault
zoe bringing it down to less than £10k?
Looks like electric cars aren't selling.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electr...United_Kingdom

In article ,
harry scribeth thus
On Friday, 1 April 2016 21:14:26 UTC+1, alan_m wrote:
On 01/04/2016 15:47, whisky-dave wrote:


So what sort of driver is it aimed at long distance ?
but can only do 215 miles.....


With a new battery! What mileage can it achieve on a single charge when
the battery is a 1 or 2 years old?


--
mailto: news {at} admac {dot] myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

Lots of people here rabbiting on with zero knowledge.
My car is 2012, any battery deterioration is undetectable.

Well well Harry, perhaps you've e found a way to reverse chemical ageing
you might get a Nobel prize for that!!....

--
Tony Sayer

In article ,
harry scribeth thus
On Friday, 1 April 2016 14:40:53 UTC+1, RJH wrote:
On 01/04/2016 14:35, Another Dave wrote:
On 01/04/16 12:46, JoeJoe wrote:
Just saw the launch of the new Tesla car, and at a claimed 215m to a
charge, I can see myself perhaps being persuaded to consider the
technology at some stage in the not near or medium future.

I have seen quite a few charging points (or whatever they are called) -
in most large European cities. I assume that the cost of a charge is set
so that it would be marginally lower to run such cars compared to
petrol/diesel cars.

But what would be a rough estimate for the true cost of a charge (i.e.
when done at home)?

For a "true" cost (i.e. one that you could compare to a conventional
car) you would need to take into account the tax levied on petrol and
diesel but not on electricity.


Yes indeed. Plus one of the largest costs of car ownership - depreciation.

Depreciation is high on current electric cars.
So, buy second hand.

If you have solar PV panels, you can charge up for free in Summer.

Right so if you use the car for commuting then .. nah!, perhaps best not
leave it at home charging and go to work on yer bike;!..


In Winter I use economy seven.

For public charge points you need a card.
Present costs range from zero to £10 IFAIK

Public charge points might be vandalised or in use when you want them.

--
Tony Sayer

On 05/04/2016 09:43, tony sayer wrote:
In article ,
harry scribeth thus
On Friday, 1 April 2016 21:14:26 UTC+1, alan_m wrote:
On 01/04/2016 15:47, whisky-dave wrote:


So what sort of driver is it aimed at long distance ?
but can only do 215 miles.....


With a new battery! What mileage can it achieve on a single charge when
the battery is a 1 or 2 years old?


--
mailto: news {at} admac {dot] myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

Lots of people here rabbiting on with zero knowledge.
My car is 2012, any battery deterioration is undetectable.

Well well Harry, perhaps you've e found a way to reverse chemical ageing
you might get a Nobel prize for that!!....

It could just mean he has very low detection capabilities ;-)

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Fri, 01 Apr 2016 13:23:55 +0100, Tim Watts wrote:

On 01/04/16 12:46, JoeJoe wrote:
Just saw the launch of the new Tesla car, and at a claimed 215m to a
charge, I can see myself perhaps being persuaded to consider the
technology at some stage in the not near or medium future.

I have seen quite a few charging points (or whatever they are called) -
in most large European cities. I assume that the cost of a charge is set
so that it would be marginally lower to run such cars compared to
petrol/diesel cars.

But what would be a rough estimate for the true cost of a charge (i.e..
when done at home)?

Using figures here and assuming you have Economy 7 at around 6p for 7
hours and 12p in the day (remaining hours):

https://driveandream.wordpress.com/2...del-s-at-home/


Do do a full recharge on a 32A single phase circuit (the usual if you
own an electric car and recharge it there - 13A is only really useful if
you are a remote site with no 32A option):

A full recharge is estimated to be about 11 hours at 7.3kW, so 7 at 6p
and 4 at 12p = £6.62

Or in terms of price/mile:

The same webpage suggests a charging rate of:

3.4 miles per kWh

So if using no more that 7 hours charging per night:

1.76p/mile

and if using day rate electricity:

3.53p/mile


For comparison, my diesel Touran at 50mpg costs around 9.6p per mile.


Either way it's a good deal, but does not factor the massive capital
cost of a Tesla!

That seems very expensive. When I worked it out it was a TENTH of the cost of diesel (mainly due to zero fuel tax). I guess the Tesla is a bit more sporty than your VW.

--
A high IQ is like a Jeep. You still get stuck, just further from help.

On Sat, 02 Apr 2016 12:02:29 +0100, Andrew Gabriel wrote:

In article ,
John Rumm writes:

And don't forget that if lots of people did it, they would find a way of
taxing it! ;-)

If even a few people start doing it, the local substation transformers
will all burn out, never mind the supply network.

Only if we all started at once. What will really happen is it will take decades for everyone to take them up, and the substations will be gradually upgraded. And since the electric companies are making a lot more money, they can spend that on the transformers.

--
The most effective way to remember your wife's birthday is to forget it once.

On Sun, 03 Apr 2016 22:49:49 +0100, Andrew Gabriel wrote:

In article ,
Tim Watts writes:
On 03/04/16 20:46, bert wrote:
If lots and lots of people did it I suspect the grid would be stuffed.

It may not be - they would probably be doing it overnight mostly - and
there's a lot of spare capacity then.

Supplies to housing estates are worked out assuming an After Diversity
Maximum Demand (ADMD) rating per house, which is typically 2kW, but
dropping as low as 1kW for small terraced houses. (For electrically
heated homes, the electric heating load is added on top.)

If many homes plug in electric cars for charging even just at night, it
will blow the substation fuses at best. There was an incident in Luton
some years ago where a large number of gas meters were destroyed when
a high pressure gas main was accidentally connected to the street
supply, and the gas had to be disconnected from a housing estate for
some days whilst all the gas meters and regulators were replaced. The
gas company dropped off a 2kW fan heater at each house. Then they all
lost their electrical power when the substation transformer literally
blew up.

So the ****wit electric company had no breakers to protect the substation. Figures.

--
Marriage changes passion. Suddenly you're in bed with a relative.

On Fri, 01 Apr 2016 21:07:31 +0100, alan_m wrote:

On 01/04/2016 13:23, Tim Watts wrote:


Either way it's a good deal, but does not factor the massive capital
cost of a Tesla!

But how long will it be before the government decide that they have to
tax the electricity to charge a car at the equivalent rate as the tax or
petrol/diesel? Why do you think that they want smart meters fitted to
every household?

Can they tell the difference between green and red electrons or something?

--
Men wake up as good-looking as they went to bed.
Women somehow deteriorate during the night.

On Sat, 02 Apr 2016 19:00:02 +0100, ARW wrote:

"Tim Watts" wrote in message
...
On 02/04/16 17:47, ARW wrote:
"Tim Watts" wrote in message
...


For comparison, my diesel Touran at 50mpg costs around 9.6p per mile.


Either way it's a good deal, but does not factor the massive capital
cost of a Tesla!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0EQetm_qWDg


I cycled past one at the bottom of Reigate Hill[1] heading upwards.

How I chortled...

[1] is a mile long slog of moderately steep hill



And this one

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5N937V8ZOw

Different running costs!

"Large capacity boot", at which point a woman inserts ONE carrier bag of shopping, filling the entire boot. Useless.

--
All that glitters has a high refractive index.

On Fri, 01 Apr 2016 13:27:52 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
JoeJoe wrote:
Just saw the launch of the new Tesla car, and at a claimed 215m to a
charge, I can see myself perhaps being persuaded to consider the
technology at some stage in the not near or medium future.

I have seen quite a few charging points (or whatever they are called) -
in most large European cities. I assume that the cost of a charge is set
so that it would be marginally lower to run such cars compared to
petrol/diesel cars.

But what would be a rough estimate for the true cost of a charge (i.e..
when done at home)?

You need to factor in the price of the batteries too as these are service
items. Some makers actually hire them to you for a monthly rental - so
that is part of the fuel costs that so many choose to ignore when talking
about running costs.

I won't be buying one using current battery technology. Current rechargeables last 4-8 years. Less than a car's life. Useless. And at 3 grand for a set, **** that.

--
FOR SALE BY OWNER. Complete set of Encyclopedia Britannica , 45 volumes.
Excellent condition, £200 or best offer.
No longer needed, got married, wife knows everything.

On Sat, 02 Apr 2016 12:08:36 +0100, Andrew Gabriel wrote:

In article ,
alan_m writes:
On 01/04/2016 13:50, Biggles wrote:
JoeJoe Wrote in message:
Just saw the launch of the new Tesla car, and at a claimed 215m to a
charge, I can see myself perhaps being persuaded to consider the
technology at some stage in the not near or medium future.

I have seen quite a few charging points (or whatever they are called) -
in most large European cities. I assume that the cost of a charge is set
so that it would be marginally lower to run such cars compared to
petrol/diesel cars.

But what would be a rough estimate for the true cost of a charge (i.e.
when done at home)?


Well the Model 3 seems to come with 44Kwh or 66Kwh battery, so
with the latter battery at say 13.5p per unit it would cost about
9 quid per 215 miles, plus charging losses - say +10%??? Battery
lease or replacement costs also need to be factored
in.


And in the British climate how much battery capacity will be used just
heating the passengers?

People with electric cars wear warm clothes. Turning on the heater
makes a severe dent in the milage coverage. Same with lighting.

You can't do that. You need to demist the windscreen to see out.

--
Debugger: a tool to remove evidence of rear entry.

On Sat, 02 Apr 2016 12:08:36 +0100, Andrew Gabriel wrote:

In article ,
alan_m writes:
On 01/04/2016 13:50, Biggles wrote:
JoeJoe Wrote in message:
Just saw the launch of the new Tesla car, and at a claimed 215m to a
charge, I can see myself perhaps being persuaded to consider the
technology at some stage in the not near or medium future.

I have seen quite a few charging points (or whatever they are called) -
in most large European cities. I assume that the cost of a charge is set
so that it would be marginally lower to run such cars compared to
petrol/diesel cars.

But what would be a rough estimate for the true cost of a charge (i.e.
when done at home)?


Well the Model 3 seems to come with 44Kwh or 66Kwh battery, so
with the latter battery at say 13.5p per unit it would cost about
9 quid per 215 miles, plus charging losses - say +10%??? Battery
lease or replacement costs also need to be factored
in.


And in the British climate how much battery capacity will be used just
heating the passengers?

People with electric cars wear warm clothes. Turning on the heater
makes a severe dent in the milage coverage. Same with lighting.

Might this discourage ridiculously bright DRLs?

--
If I said you had a beautiful body, would you hold it against me? -- Monty Python, Episode 25

On Tuesday, 5 April 2016 09:51:32 UTC+1, tony sayer wrote:
In article ,
harry scribeth thus
On Friday, 1 April 2016 21:14:26 UTC+1, alan_m wrote:
On 01/04/2016 15:47, whisky-dave wrote:


So what sort of driver is it aimed at long distance ?
but can only do 215 miles.....


With a new battery! What mileage can it achieve on a single charge when
the battery is a 1 or 2 years old?


--
mailto: news {at} admac {dot] myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

Lots of people here rabbiting on with zero knowledge.
My car is 2012, any battery deterioration is undetectable.

Well well Harry, perhaps you've e found a way to reverse chemical ageing
you might get a Nobel prize for that!!....

--
Tony Sayer


Well ****-fer-brains, you don't suppose electric cars are not fitted with range remaining and battery charge condition instruments?
If so you must be really brain dead.

All I have to go on is the instruments fitted to the car.
The battery "fullness" indicator hasn't changed much on the regular journeys I make.
The "pips" disappear at the same places on a journey that they always have.

I always charge the battery at optimum time/conditions.