Replaced the taps and 'push lever' waste on a bathroom sink with new
monobloc tap and clicky waste yesterday, but can't get the lower seal on
the waste to, um, seal. The upper seal (to the basin) is fine.

It's one of those combined waste and overflow things with a couple of
notches cut out in the waste body for the overflow. Everything is fine
until I allow water into the overflow, at which point the lower seal
leaks. The actual seal to the bottom of the basin seems to be good, it
seems to be water escaping through the threads of the waste.

What am I missing here? Surely it should be possible to get a good seal
without having to bodge it with silicone?

Thanks for any tips.

--
(\_/)
(='.'=) Bunny says: Windows 10? Nein danke!
(")_(")

On Tuesday, 23 February 2016 08:49:44 UTC, Mike Tomlinson wrote:

Replaced the taps and 'push lever' waste on a bathroom sink with new
monobloc tap and clicky waste yesterday, but can't get the lower seal on
the waste to, um, seal. The upper seal (to the basin) is fine.

It's one of those combined waste and overflow things with a couple of
notches cut out in the waste body for the overflow. Everything is fine
until I allow water into the overflow, at which point the lower seal
leaks. The actual seal to the bottom of the basin seems to be good, it
seems to be water escaping through the threads of the waste.

What am I missing here? Surely it should be possible to get a good seal
without having to bodge it with silicone?

Thanks for any tips.

You're missing silicone, plumber's mait etc.


NT

On Tue, 23 Feb 2016 08:49:47 +0000, Mike Tomlinson
wrote:


Replaced the taps and 'push lever' waste on a bathroom sink with new
monobloc tap and clicky waste yesterday, but can't get the lower seal on
the waste to, um, seal. The upper seal (to the basin) is fine.

It's one of those combined waste and overflow things with a couple of
notches cut out in the waste body for the overflow. Everything is fine
until I allow water into the overflow, at which point the lower seal
leaks. The actual seal to the bottom of the basin seems to be good, it
seems to be water escaping through the threads of the waste.

What am I missing here? Surely it should be possible to get a good seal
without having to bodge it with silicone?

How though? There are no mating / natural sealable surfaces under the
overflow part and those threads are a fairly loose fit.

There are many instances where you have to seal threads be it with
fluids or gasses.

Thanks for any tips.

Any suitable sealant. There is no pressure and hopefully won't be
used.

Cheers, T i m

Any suitable sealant. There is no pressure and hopefully won't be
used.

Cheers, T i m



The overflow chamber gets wetted when the plug is removed as well - water
can flow either way through the slots.

On 23/02/2016 09:02, T i m wrote:
On Tue, 23 Feb 2016 08:49:47 +0000, Mike Tomlinson
wrote:


Replaced the taps and 'push lever' waste on a bathroom sink with new
monobloc tap and clicky waste yesterday, but can't get the lower seal on
the waste to, um, seal. The upper seal (to the basin) is fine.

It's one of those combined waste and overflow things with a couple of
notches cut out in the waste body for the overflow. Everything is fine
until I allow water into the overflow, at which point the lower seal
leaks. The actual seal to the bottom of the basin seems to be good, it
seems to be water escaping through the threads of the waste.

What am I missing here? Surely it should be possible to get a good seal
without having to bodge it with silicone?

How though? There are no mating / natural sealable surfaces under the
overflow part and those threads are a fairly loose fit.

There are many instances where you have to seal threads be it with
fluids or gasses.

Thanks for any tips.

Any suitable sealant. There is no pressure and hopefully won't be
used.

Cheers, T i m


If there's a washer of any sort involved, I'd replace that from my pack
of Aldi 500 assorted washers (reducing it to 499). Seriously, the washer
in waste compression joints often looks ok but isn't.

On Tue, 23 Feb 2016 10:17:49 GMT, DerbyBorn
wrote:


Any suitable sealant. There is no pressure and hopefully won't be
used.


The overflow chamber gets wetted when the plug is removed as well - water
can flow either way through the slots.

Ah, of course. The required solution for the desired outcome will be
the same though. ;-)

I've been there when a guy re-doing my Mums bathroom struggled for
some time with this very issue. I took it all the bits, worked out
what had to be done (some sealant applied to the thread on the final
nut) and left him to get on with the job. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

On Tuesday, 23 February 2016 08:49:44 UTC, Mike Tomlinson wrote:
The actual seal to the bottom of the basin seems to be good, it
seems to be water escaping through the threads of the waste.


I have also had that issue a couple of times. A dozen turns of PTFE tape around the thread fixed it for me.

Mike

On Tue, 23 Feb 2016 10:30:20 +0000, Stuart Noble
wrote:

snip

If there's a washer of any sort involved, I'd replace that from my pack
of Aldi 500 assorted washers (reducing it to 499).

Hehe.

Seriously, the washer
in waste compression joints often looks ok but isn't.

I've also had it where it looks f'd but had to use it and it's worked
fine, but then I guess there are important places and less important
places.

Like, if you have a conventional waste (like on a shower) you only
need to get a good seal around the back on the flange, or the waste
fittings that fasten with a screw from above (so no thread to leak
underneath). However, as soon as you have something like an overflow
(that uses the same final outlet / fitting as an assembly) you don't
need a seal under the flange at all (although you would to stop stuff
getting under there) as it's not actually stopping any water getting
past.

Cheers, T i m

Thanks for the replies. After asking in the local plumbing supplies
store a bit of goggling, this sorted it - no silicone, no plumber's
mate, no PTFE tape needed. I've seen it described as a "basin mate" and
a "bowl sealer".

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/231601813077

It's a rubber wotsit with internal ribs/threads and a conical shape.
You push it onto the bottom of the waste and the conical bit forms the
seal with the bottom hole in the basin. Tightening the securing nut
compresses it, sealing the threads. As a bonus, it centres the plughole
in the top of the basin.

2 quid from BnQ (plumber's store had no stock) and worked a treat.

I've always felt it should be possible to get a good seal without
bodging with silicone or plumber's mate, especially if the surfaces are
clean. A bit of washing up liquid for lubricant, that's all.

This guy uses one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jaPsf2xTZfc

but also uses silicone, which is cheating IMO

--
(\_/)
(='.'=) Bunny says: Windows 10? Nein danke!
(")_(")

I've always felt it should be possible to get a good seal without
bodging with silicone or plumber's mate, especially if the surfaces are
clean. A bit of washing up liquid for lubricant, that's all.

This guy uses one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jaPsf2xTZfc

but also uses silicone, which is cheating IMO

I agree with your thinking - but in this case the thread itself is the
leakage route.

En el artículo 2,
DerbyBorn escribió:

I agree with your thinking - but in this case the thread itself is the
leakage route.

Yes, I realised that, hence my question.

The "basin mate" rubber bung compresses and seals the threads without
the need for any sealant, plumber's mate or PTFE.

A much more elegant solution, IMO. And it saves me buying a tube of
sealant, of which I'll use a tiny amount for this job and waste the rest
as by the time I come to use it for another job, it'll have solidified
in the tube.

--
(\_/)
(='.'=) Bunny says: Windows 10? Nein danke!
(")_(")

On Tue, 23 Feb 2016 12:18:35 GMT, DerbyBorn
wrote:



I've always felt it should be possible to get a good seal without
bodging with silicone or plumber's mate, especially if the surfaces are
clean. A bit of washing up liquid for lubricant, that's all.

This guy uses one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jaPsf2xTZfc

but also uses silicone, which is cheating IMO

I agree with your thinking - but in this case the thread itself is the
leakage route.

And I can't see how any 'rubber' (that isn't liquid) will ever fully
seal what is a fairly sharp metal thread, without some additional
sealant?

The only exception would be if the rubber had it's own internal thread
that coincided with the thread on the waste fitting but even then it
would never fully 'sync' (excuse the pun), depending on how much you
compressed the rubber.

It is my prediction that it will still leak, it might just take a bit
of time till it does but then may block itself with gunge as time goes
on.

At least if you applied sealant to the inside of the rubber bush to
seal against the threads you could still easily remove the nut at a
later date.

Cheers, T i m

On 23/02/16 12:18, DerbyBorn wrote:

I've always felt it should be possible to get a good seal without
bodging with silicone or plumber's mate, especially if the surfaces are
clean. A bit of washing up liquid for lubricant, that's all.

This guy uses one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jaPsf2xTZfc

but also uses silicone, which is cheating IMO

I agree with your thinking - but in this case the thread itself is the
leakage route.


I put a load of Plumbers Mait or Boss White (one of the plumber's
puttys) on mine.

En el artículo , T i m
escribió:

And I can't see how any 'rubber' (that isn't liquid) will ever fully
seal what is a fairly sharp metal thread, without some additional
sealant?

You wouldn't, would you.

The only exception would be if the rubber had it's own internal thread
that coincided with the thread on the waste fitting

It does.

but even then it
would never fully 'sync' (excuse the pun), depending on how much you
compressed the rubber.

********.

It is my prediction that it will still leak

Left all day with basin full of water. Not a drop.

Read the reviews here.

http://www.diy.com/departments/plumb...-basin-sealer-
dia32mm-set-of-1/178380_BQ.prd#

"Excellent product for under £2. Avoids need to use messy sealants."

"Got a perfect seal without the need for Plumbers Mait"

"Did exactly what was required - no leaks, brilliant"

"After three attempts at trying to stop the water seeping down the
threads of the trap I opted for this. Instant success and it didn't need
anything else added except a bit of soap to lubricate the thread as it's
a tight fit"

etc. etc.

--
(\_/)
(='.'=) Bunny says: Windows 10? Nein danke!
(")_(")

Another site clearly showing how ot use the Basin Mate:

http://www.ultimatehandyman.co.uk/ho...-waste-fitting

this is how I installed it (before finding this site.)

Hope this helps someone else struggling with the same problem. It seems
to be quite common.

--
(\_/)
(='.'=) Bunny says: Windows 10? Nein danke!
(")_(")

On Tue, 23 Feb 2016 17:58:41 +0000, Mike Tomlinson
wrote:

En el artículo , T i m
escribió:

And I can't see how any 'rubber' (that isn't liquid) will ever fully
seal what is a fairly sharp metal thread, without some additional
sealant?

You wouldn't, would you.

The only exception would be if the rubber had it's own internal thread
that coincided with the thread on the waste fitting

It does.

So how 'rubbery' is the rubber? How much have you compressed it whilst
tightening the fitting?

but even then it
would never fully 'sync' (excuse the pun), depending on how much you
compressed the rubber.

********.

Fact. The fact you can't work it out doesn't make it any less so. If
the rubber had a thread that matched the waste outlet at rest, then
you compressed it 50% of it's original size, what pitch would the
thread be then.

A) 'The same'
B) 'Different'.

It is my prediction that it will still leak

Left all day with basin full of water. Not a drop.

With the plug open?

Remove the trap, blank the end of the waste outlet off, open the plug,
fill the sink with water to the brim and leave *that* for a day and
get back to us. I'm not saying it *will* leak (you can get lucky with
these things), I'm just saying that will be an actual test.


Read the reviews here.

http://www.diy.com/departments/plumb...-basin-sealer-
dia32mm-set-of-1/178380_BQ.prd#

"Excellent product for under £2. Avoids need to use messy sealants."

"Got a perfect seal without the need for Plumbers Mait"

"Did exactly what was required - no leaks, brilliant"

"After three attempts at trying to stop the water seeping down the
threads of the trap I opted for this. Instant success and it didn't need
anything else added except a bit of soap to lubricate the thread as it's
a tight fit"

etc. etc.

I wonder how we ever coped?

Cheers, T i m

On Tue, 23 Feb 2016 18:03:12 +0000, Mike Tomlinson
wrote:


Another site clearly showing how ot use the Basin Mate:

http://www.ultimatehandyman.co.uk/ho...-waste-fitting

this is how I installed it (before finding this site.)

Hope this helps someone else struggling with the same problem. It seems
to be quite common.

Amongst people who don't understand how it all works though I'm
guessing (I'm not suggesting you fall into that category, you just
preferred not to use any sealant). Like the guy who told me he 'had
spent 3 hours trying to stop my mums new basin waste leaking' and I
managed it first go in 10 mins because I *understood* what was
required. He hadn't understood that the washer above the nut didn't
seal the nut.

From your link above:

"The manufacturers instructions for fitting this waste was to seal
around the pop up waste using silicone and then place it into position
and then fit the sealing washer to the bottom and then the large
plastic nut.

I did exactly as the instructions said and the waste leaked and so I
removed it and tried again using even more silicone and it leaked
again, then the retaining nut broke and so off I went to my local DIY
store and I found a much better solution for fitting the waste."

It leaked because they weren't sealing the right thing.

You *don't* need to seal the waste fitting where it goes into the
basin, other than to stop the water leaking out of the basin, past the
plug when it's in place.

You don't (normally) need to seal any other rings (like a non
integrated overflow connection), as long as you use appropriate
(suitably soft and not split) washers on both sides.

You do normally need some sort of sealant between the lower nut but
*only* on the thread.

So, if you assembled the entire fitting, ran a small bead of sealant
around the thread against the lower washer and then did the nut up
(even by hand), the chances are all would be fine (and you wouldn't
'have sealant everywhere' or the nut stuck on.

I and millions of plumbers have done it this way for many many years.

Cheers, T i m

p.s. If you already have the sealant out, many people would run a
smear round each of the mating surfaces 'just in case'.

"T i m" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 23 Feb 2016 12:18:35 GMT, DerbyBorn
wrote:



I've always felt it should be possible to get a good seal without
bodging with silicone or plumber's mate, especially if the surfaces are
clean. A bit of washing up liquid for lubricant, that's all.

This guy uses one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jaPsf2xTZfc

but also uses silicone, which is cheating IMO

I agree with your thinking - but in this case the thread itself is the
leakage route.

And I can't see how any 'rubber' (that isn't liquid) will ever fully seal
what is a fairly sharp metal thread, without some additional sealant?

Easy, it just gets compressed into the thread as you tighten the nut etc.

The sharpness is irrelevant if it isnt rotating against the
sharpness as you tighten the nut and that is easy to achieve.

The only exception would be if the rubber had it's own internal
thread that coincided with the thread on the waste fitting

And that is what it has,

but even then it would never fully 'sync' (excuse the pun),
depending on how much you compressed the rubber.

That's not right. It's the compressing of the rubber that does that.

It is my prediction that it will still leak,

Bet it doesn't.

it might just take a bit of time till it does

Why should it take time to do that ?

but then may block itself with gunge as time goes on.

Bet it doesn't leak at all. I never sealed any of mine with
anything and none of them have ever leaked in 40+ years.

At least if you applied sealant to the inside of the rubber bush to
seal against the threads you could still easily remove the nut at a
later date.

And if you don't use any sealant, it will undo fine at a later date.

On Wed, 24 Feb 2016 06:20:53 +1100, "Rod Speed"
wrote:
snip

And I can't see how any 'rubber' (that isn't liquid) will ever fully seal
what is a fairly sharp metal thread, without some additional sealant?

Easy, it just gets compressed into the thread as you tighten the nut etc.

No, it's obvious you aren't an engineer or comprehend my point (as you
will contradict yourself shortly).


The sharpness is irrelevant if it isnt rotating against the
sharpness as you tighten the nut and that is easy to achieve.

Have you ever actually seen the thread on a metal waste fitting?

The sharpness (and deepness) of the thread is completely relevant
because you might be trying to 'push' rubber over the thread profile
to obtain a seal. eg, for the purpose of a good / easy seal, plain
pipe would be the easiest option, then a gently undulating finish and
lastly (and the most difficult to seal) a deep, sharp, thread.

The only exception would be if the rubber had it's own internal
thread that coincided with the thread on the waste fitting

And that is what it has,

So I understand ... and whilst that would work if the exact same pitch
as the metal fitting, may be an issue if the rubber threads aren't
tessellated fully with the metal ones. A 'spiral' is always more
difficult to seal than just rings or smooth.

but even then it would never fully 'sync' (excuse the pun),
depending on how much you compressed the rubber.

That's not right. It's the compressing of the rubber that does that.

Ok, let's say you have a 1 turn per mm thread on the steel and a one
turn per mm thread on the rubber. Now compress the rubber by 50%, what
is the pitch on the thread on the rubber now?

It is my prediction that it will still leak,

Bet it doesn't.

Time will tell. ;-)

it might just take a bit of time till it does

Why should it take time to do that ?

Because unless Mike actually tests the seal properly (by applying a
'worst case' positive head of water where the waste is blocked) the
chances are the time it takes to empty the basin into a free flowing
outlet won't 'test' the seal very much.

but then may block itself with gunge as time goes on.

Bet it doesn't leak at all.

Time will tell.

I never sealed any of mine with
anything and none of them have ever leaked in 40+ years.

Like I said, assuming you don't initially expose the seal to a proper
pressure test, over time any potentially unnoticed seepage will slowly
block itself in any case.

At least if you applied sealant to the inside of the rubber bush to
seal against the threads you could still easily remove the nut at a
later date.

And if you don't use any sealant, it will undo fine at a later date.

I have used sealant and never had any issues stripping any fitting
sealed with a non-hardening sealant (even Loctite). [1]

Cheers, T i m

[1] Including safely removing two taps that had been 'set' in putty
and the plumber said he would probably break the basin if *he* tried
to get them out.

"T i m" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 23 Feb 2016 17:58:41 +0000, Mike Tomlinson
wrote:

En el artículo , T i m
escribió:

And I can't see how any 'rubber' (that isn't liquid) will ever fully
seal what is a fairly sharp metal thread, without some additional
sealant?

You wouldn't, would you.

The only exception would be if the rubber had it's own internal thread
that coincided with the thread on the waste fitting

It does.

So how 'rubbery' is the rubber? How much have you compressed it whilst
tightening the fitting?

but even then it
would never fully 'sync' (excuse the pun), depending on how much you
compressed the rubber.

********.

Fact. The fact you can't work it out doesn't make it any less so. If
the rubber had a thread that matched the waste outlet at rest, then
you compressed it 50% of it's original size, what pitch would the
thread be then.

The compression doesn't happen that way, it sees the rubber
compressed into the metal thread and that is what seals it.

A) 'The same'
B) 'Different'.

It is my prediction that it will still leak

Left all day with basin full of water. Not a drop.

With the plug open?

Remove the trap, blank the end of the waste outlet off, open the plug,
fill the sink with water to the brim and leave *that* for a day and
get back to us. I'm not saying it *will* leak (you can get lucky with
these things), I'm just saying that will be an actual test.


Read the reviews here.

http://www.diy.com/departments/plumb...-basin-sealer-
dia32mm-set-of-1/178380_BQ.prd#

"Excellent product for under £2. Avoids need to use messy sealants."

"Got a perfect seal without the need for Plumbers Mait"

"Did exactly what was required - no leaks, brilliant"

"After three attempts at trying to stop the water seeping down the
threads of the trap I opted for this. Instant success and it didn't need
anything else added except a bit of soap to lubricate the thread as it's
a tight fit"

etc. etc.

I wonder how we ever coped?

By using the much cruder approach of a sealant of some form or other.

En el artículo , T i m
escribió:

Oh god, T i m Nice-but D i m strikes again.

So how 'rubbery' is the rubber? How much have you compressed it whilst
tightening the fitting?

Buy one yourself and find out, like I did.

Fact. The fact you can't work it out doesn't make it any less so.

The fact that it worked as intended has left you all butt-hurt, hasn't
it?

If
the rubber had a thread that matched the waste outlet at rest, then
you compressed it 50% of it's original size, what pitch would the
thread be then.

You really don't have a clue. It's compressing INWARDS, so the rubber
is sealing the threads.

Left all day with basin full of water. Not a drop.

With the plug open?

Eh? What planet are you on?

Plug closed, basin filled, tap left trickling so water runs down the
overflow.

Sheet of newspaper on the floor - even one drop of water is going to
stand out a mile. Nothing all day.

Remove the trap, blank the end of the waste outlet off, open the plug,
fill the sink with water to the brim and leave *that* for a day and
get back to us.

**** off, you tedious little ****. I've just assembled it and it's
leak-free, you seriously expect me to take it all apart again to satisfy
your inadequacies?

If you have something to prove, you prove it - **** off and do the
experiment yourself.

I have a life, unlike you it seems. No wonder you get so much stick on
here.

I'm not saying it *will* leak (you can get lucky with
these things),

I used the proper part for the job rather than bodge it with sealant,
plumber's mait, etc. As I said at the outset, it should be possible to
achieve a good seal without bodging it with sealant. And so it proved.

I guess you're the sort of incompetent **** that thinks it's OK to use
PTFE to seal compressed fittings on gas lines too.

Back in the killfile you go. *plonk*

--
(\_/)
(='.'=) Bunny says: Windows 10? Nein danke!
(")_(")

T i m wrote
Rod Speed wrote

And I can't see how any 'rubber' (that isn't liquid) will ever fully
seal
what is a fairly sharp metal thread, without some additional sealant?

Easy, it just gets compressed into the thread as you tighten the nut etc.

No, it's obvious you aren't an engineer

Much better one than you are, thanks.

or comprehend my point (as you will contradict yourself shortly).

Bull**** I did.

The sharpness is irrelevant if it isnt rotating against the
sharpness as you tighten the nut and that is easy to achieve.

Have you ever actually seen the thread on a metal waste fitting?

Yep. Since I designed and built my own house from scratch on
a bare block of land and did all that stuff myself, personally,
I certainly have done. Didn't use any sealant on any of them
and haven't had even one ever leak at all.

The sharpness (and deepness) of the thread is completely
relevant because you might be trying to 'push' rubber
over the thread profile to obtain a seal.

Nope, you are pressing it into the thread and that works fine.

eg, for the purpose of a good / easy seal, plain pipe would
be the easiest option, then a gently undulating finish and
lastly (and the most difficult to seal) a deep, sharp, thread.

Waffle.

The only exception would be if the rubber had it's own internal
thread that coincided with the thread on the waste fitting

And that is what it has,

So I understand ... and whilst that would work if the exact
same pitch as the metal fitting, may be an issue if the
rubber threads aren't tessellated fully with the metal ones.

But they are when the rubber is compressed into the metal threads.

Doesn't have to be exact, because the rubber is flexible.

A 'spiral' is always more difficult to seal than just rings or smooth.

BULL****. Threads on thread have a lot more surface area
and the rubber threaded section can be compressed into
the metal thread much better than with just rings or smooth.

but even then it would never fully 'sync' (excuse the pun),
depending on how much you compressed the rubber.

That's not right. It's the compressing of the rubber that does that.

Ok, let's say you have a 1 turn per mm thread on the steel and a one
turn per mm thread on the rubber. Now compress the rubber by 50%,
what is the pitch on the thread on the rubber now?

The pitch doesn't change, the compression happens the other
way, compressing the rubber thread into the metal thread.

It is my prediction that it will still leak,

Bet it doesn't.

Time will tell. ;-)

It already has with mine. I never used any sealant and
haven't had a leak in 40+ years. Never had to replace
any of them either.

it might just take a bit of time till it does

Why should it take time to do that ?

Because unless Mike actually tests the seal properly (by applying a
'worst case' positive head of water where the waste is blocked) the
chances are the time it takes to empty the basin into a free flowing
outlet won't 'test' the seal very much.

Time isnt going to change that.

but then may block itself with gunge as time goes on.

Bet it doesn't leak at all.

Time will tell.

It already has with mine. I never used any sealant and
haven't had a leak in 40+ years. Never had to replace
any of them either.

I never sealed any of mine with anything and
none of them have ever leaked in 40+ years.

Like I said, assuming you don't initially expose the seal
to a proper pressure test, over time any potentially
unnoticed seepage will slowly block itself in any case.

Not when the water is relatively clean like in a basin.

At least if you applied sealant to the inside of the rubber bush to
seal against the threads you could still easily remove the nut at a
later date.

And if you don't use any sealant, it will undo fine at a later date.

I have used sealant and never had any issues stripping any
fitting sealed with a non-hardening sealant (even Loctite). [1]

I don't use sealant and all undo fine.

[1] Including safely removing two taps that had been 'set' in putty
and the plumber said he would probably break the basin if *he* tried
to get them out.

On Tue, 23 Feb 2016 21:02:13 +0000, Mike Tomlinson
wrote:

En el artículo , T i m
escribió:

Oh god, T i m Nice-but D i m strikes again.

Clever.

So how 'rubbery' is the rubber? How much have you compressed it whilst
tightening the fitting?

Buy one yourself and find out, like I did.

Don't need to. I along with millions of other people have managed
without (thanks).

Fact. The fact you can't work it out doesn't make it any less so.

The fact that it worked as intended has left you all butt-hurt, hasn't
it?

Nope, and as yet you haven't demonstrated it has worked.

If
the rubber had a thread that matched the waste outlet at rest, then
you compressed it 50% of it's original size, what pitch would the
thread be then.

You really don't have a clue.

I think you will find I have more of a clue than you, as you will go
onto demonstrate ...

It's compressing INWARDS,

No, it's being compressed sideways and so is expanding inwards and
outwards.

so the rubber
is sealing the threads.

No 'so' about it. The rubber is being pushed against the tops of the
threads and you are *hoping* is being pushed into the threads
sufficiently to make a seal. Now, that concept works (very well) on a
smooth section, like a cable gland but not always when the surface
being clamped has a spiral thread in it.


Left all day with basin full of water. Not a drop.

With the plug open?

Eh? What planet are you on?

The one you wish you were.

Plug closed, basin filled, tap left trickling so water runs down the
overflow.

Ah, so now moving the goalposts *AND* proving (as I predicted) you
don't have a clue. Thanks.

Sheet of newspaper on the floor - even one drop of water is going to
stand out a mile. Nothing all day.

You haven't tested it fully yet.

Remove the trap, blank the end of the waste outlet off, open the plug,
fill the sink with water to the brim and leave *that* for a day and
get back to us.

snip expletives that demonstrate your level of frustration,
embarrassment and confusion

I've just assembled it

Well done you! ;-)

and it's
leak-free,

With the tests you have given it so far.

you seriously expect me to take it all apart again to satisfy
your inadequacies?

I don't expect anything of you, that way I'll not be disappointed.

snip more childish bleating's

I have a life, unlike you it seems.

Of course you do.

No wonder you get so much stick on
here.

From whom? You and yer little Linux fanatic friends ... with yer
clever little anti Windows sigs. Grow up FFS.

I'm not saying it *will* leak (you can get lucky with
these things),

I used the proper part for the job rather than bodge it with sealant,
plumber's mait, etc.

You used an alternative that may or may not have worked. You don't
know that it has worked because you haven't tested it properly. I'm
not surprising you haven't because you had to ask about doing the job
in the first place.

As I said at the outset, it should be possible to
achieve a good seal without bodging it with sealant.

And I didn't disagree with that. I (and others) suggested that sealant
was the normal way to go.

And so it proved.

You have 'proved' nothing yet.

I guess you're the sort of incompetent **** that thinks it's OK to use
PTFE to seal compressed fittings on gas lines too.

I use whatever is the std for the field.


Back in the killfile you go. *plonk*

Aww, these Linux nerds are soooo funny when they get all excited. ;-)


Cheers, T i m

On Wed, 24 Feb 2016 07:17:50 +1100, "Rod Speed"
wrote:

snip
If
the rubber had a thread that matched the waste outlet at rest, then
you compressed it 50% of it's original size, what pitch would the
thread be then.

The compression doesn't happen that way, it sees the rubber
compressed into the metal thread and that is what seals it.

But I'm told there is a thread inside the rubber?

snip

I wonder how we ever coped?

By using the much cruder approach of a sealant of some form or other.

Quite ... but it worked and potentially in a more predictable way that
this 'basin mate', mate. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

T i m wrote
Rod Speed wrote
T i m wrote

If the rubber had a thread that matched the waste outlet
at rest, then you compressed it 50% of it's original size,
what pitch would the thread be then.

The compression doesn't happen that way, it sees the rubber
compressed into the metal thread and that is what seals it.

But I'm told there is a thread inside the rubber?

Because that gets more rubber into the metal thread
because the threads match.

I wonder how we ever coped?

By using the much cruder approach of a sealant of some form or other.

Quite ... but it worked

Doing it the other way works much better.

On Wed, 24 Feb 2016 10:56:38 +1100, "Rod Speed"
wrote:

T i m wrote
Rod Speed wrote
T i m wrote

If the rubber had a thread that matched the waste outlet
at rest, then you compressed it 50% of it's original size,
what pitch would the thread be then.

The compression doesn't happen that way, it sees the rubber
compressed into the metal thread and that is what seals it.

But I'm told there is a thread inside the rubber?

Because that gets more rubber into the metal thread
because the threads match.

R i g h t .... but, if you compress something rubber that's threaded
.... what happens to the thread pitch ... ? Now, it's quite possible
that any thread on the rubber could be designed to match the thread on
the waste when the rubber is compressed to some typical value but if
you have ever tried 'pushing' (rather than screwing) a thread into
place, especially when the other half of the joint is metal and sharp,
the 'threads' may not actually drop into place (potentially making the
seal worse).

I wonder how we ever coped?

By using the much cruder approach of a sealant of some form or other.

Quite ... but it worked

Doing it the other way works much better.

I'm not sure there is a better on 'working fine'. ;-)

No, poor Mike is working under the delusion that 'because it didn't
leak with water trickling though the fittings', then it must be ok
(and I'm not saying it wasn't ok, I'm saying he has no way of being
sure it is).

However, the real (and real world) test would be to see how the whole
lot coped UNDER PRESSURE, albeit only the pressure attained by the
head of water you would see if the downstream waste pipe became
blocked and the basin was filled to overflowing.

I have tested many system like that and (personally) would only dare
to suggest it was 'tested and sound' *when* it passed such a test.

Anything else would be like believing all your gas plumbing was ok
'because you didn't smell gas' versus doing a proper leak-down
PRESSURE test.

Cheers, T i m

T i m wrote
Rod Speed wrote
T i m wrote
Rod Speed wrote
T i m wrote

If the rubber had a thread that matched the waste
outlet at rest, then you compressed it 50% of it's
original size, what pitch would the thread be then.

The compression doesn't happen that way, it sees the rubber
compressed into the metal thread and that is what seals it.

But I'm told there is a thread inside the rubber?

Because that gets more rubber into the metal thread
because the threads match.

R i g h t ....

F r a i d s o ....

but, if you compress something rubber that's
threaded ... what happens to the thread pitch ... ?

Nothing, because the compression is of the
rubber thread into the metal thread, not in the
other direction where it affects the thread pitch.

Now, it's quite possible that any thread on the rubber
could be designed to match the thread on the waste
when the rubber is compressed to some typical value
but if you have ever tried 'pushing' (rather than screwing)
a thread into place, especially when the other half of the
joint is metal and sharp, the 'threads' may not actually
drop into place (potentially making the seal worse).

Even sillier and more pig ignorant than you usually manage.

And doesn't explain why so many found that it
sealed fine without the use of any sealant at all.

Nice theory, pity about the real world.

I wonder how we ever coped?

By using the much cruder approach of a sealant of some form or other.

Quite ... but it worked

Doing it the other way works much better.

I'm not sure there is a better on 'working fine'. ;-)

Corse there is when you don't have to fart around with any
sealant at all, just assemble it and find that it seals fine.

On Wed, 24 Feb 2016 13:48:50 +1100, "Rod Speed"
wrote:

snip

but, if you compress something rubber that's
threaded ... what happens to the thread pitch ... ?

Nothing, because the compression is of the
rubber thread into the metal thread, not in the
other direction where it affects the thread pitch.

And how do you think that compression happens? Chicken and egg my
friend.

Now, it's quite possible that any thread on the rubber
could be designed to match the thread on the waste
when the rubber is compressed to some typical value
but if you have ever tried 'pushing' (rather than screwing)
a thread into place, especially when the other half of the
joint is metal and sharp, the 'threads' may not actually
drop into place (potentially making the seal worse).

Even sillier and more pig ignorant than you usually manage.

Translation. I'm busted and don't have any sensible reply or
explanation.

And doesn't explain why so many found that it
sealed fine without the use of any sealant at all.

And many *also* used sealant that could well have done the job on it's
own.

Nice theory, pity about the real world.

See above.

I wonder how we ever coped?

By using the much cruder approach of a sealant of some form or other.

Quite ... but it worked

Doing it the other way works much better.

I'm not sure there is a better on 'working fine'. ;-)

Corse there is when you don't have to fart around with any
sealant at all, just assemble it and find that it seals fine.

After you have gone out and found someone who stocks the 'Basin mate'
and bought one you mean?

Rod, you know most people have you killfiled and so I'm asking for
trouble by talking to you here. I only do so whilst you remain
reasoned and reasonable. As soon as you stop (and you often do) I stop
talking to you.

Nothing you have said on this matter changes, or will change my
real-world understanding of how things like this work.

One thing I can be 100% sure of. Set up two basins, add the waste to
one conventionally (using sealant) and the other using the 'Basin
mate'. Once the one using sealant has been allowed to cure (if
required), test both using the worst case scenario of the waste
blocked and the sink filled to the brim. I know the one fitted
traditionally will not leak, I wouldn't bet any money that the other
wouldn't (although it may well not).

Would you put £1000 on it?


Cheers, T i m

T i m wrote
Rod Speed wrote

but, if you compress something rubber that's
threaded ... what happens to the thread pitch ... ?

Nothing, because the compression is of the
rubber thread into the metal thread, not in the
other direction where it affects the thread pitch.

And how do you think that compression happens?

Like I said, by the compression of the rubber
thread into the metal thread, not in the other
direction where it affects the thread pitch.

Chicken and egg my friend.

There is no chicken and no egg and you aren't my friend either.

Now, it's quite possible that any thread on the rubber
could be designed to match the thread on the waste
when the rubber is compressed to some typical value
but if you have ever tried 'pushing' (rather than screwing)
a thread into place, especially when the other half of the
joint is metal and sharp, the 'threads' may not actually
drop into place (potentially making the seal worse).

Even sillier and more pig ignorant than you usually manage.

Translation. I'm busted and don't have
any sensible reply or explanation.

Just another of your pathetic little drug crazed fantasys.

And doesn't explain why so many found that it
sealed fine without the use of any sealant at all.

And many *also* used sealant that could
well have done the job on it's own.

With a lot more farting around and mess.

Nice theory, pity about the real world.

See above.

Completely useless, as always with your ****.

I wonder how we ever coped?

By using the much cruder approach of a sealant of some form or other.

Quite ... but it worked

Doing it the other way works much better.

I'm not sure there is a better on 'working fine'. ;-)

Corse there is when you don't have to fart around with any
sealant at all, just assemble it and find that it seals fine.

After you have gone out and found someone who
stocks the 'Basin mate' and bought one you mean?

Corse you never have to do anything like that with sealant, eh ?

Rod, you know most people have you killfiled

Corse no one ever does anything like that with you, eh ?

and so I'm asking for trouble by talking to you here.

Even sillier than you usually manage.

I only do so whilst you remain reasoned and reasonable.
As soon as you stop (and you often do) I stop talking to you.

I couldn't give a flying red **** what you do about anything.

Nothing you have said on this matter changes, or will change
my real-world understanding of how things like this work.

True of your **** in spades.

One thing I can be 100% sure of. Set up two basins, add the waste
to one conventionally (using sealant) and the other using the 'Basin
mate'. Once the one using sealant has been allowed to cure (if
required), test both using the worst case scenario of the waste
blocked and the sink filled to the brim. I know the one fitted
traditionally will not leak, I wouldn't bet any money that the
other wouldn't (although it may well not).

Your problem, as always.

Would you put £1000 on it?

Yep.

On Thu, 25 Feb 2016 04:42:11 +1100, "Rod Speed"
wrote:

T i m wrote
Rod Speed wrote

but, if you compress something rubber that's
threaded ... what happens to the thread pitch ... ?

Nothing, because the compression is of the
rubber thread into the metal thread, not in the
other direction where it affects the thread pitch.

And how do you think that compression happens?

Like I said, by the compression of the rubber
thread into the metal thread, not in the other
direction where it affects the thread pitch.

How?

snip

Cheers, T i m

"T i m" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 25 Feb 2016 04:42:11 +1100, "Rod Speed"
wrote:

T i m wrote
Rod Speed wrote

but, if you compress something rubber that's
threaded ... what happens to the thread pitch ... ?

Nothing, because the compression is of the
rubber thread into the metal thread, not in the
other direction where it affects the thread pitch.

And how do you think that compression happens?

Like I said, by the compression of the rubber
thread into the metal thread, not in the other
direction where it affects the thread pitch.

How?

By what is around the rubber.

On Thu, 25 Feb 2016 07:32:41 +1100, "Rod Speed"
wrote:



"T i m" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 25 Feb 2016 04:42:11 +1100, "Rod Speed"
wrote:

T i m wrote
Rod Speed wrote

but, if you compress something rubber that's
threaded ... what happens to the thread pitch ... ?

Nothing, because the compression is of the
rubber thread into the metal thread, not in the
other direction where it affects the thread pitch.

And how do you think that compression happens?

Like I said, by the compression of the rubber
thread into the metal thread, not in the other
direction where it affects the thread pitch.

How?

By what is around the rubber.

And that is?

Cheers, T i m

"T i m" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 25 Feb 2016 07:32:41 +1100, "Rod Speed"
wrote:



"T i m" wrote in message
. ..
On Thu, 25 Feb 2016 04:42:11 +1100, "Rod Speed"
wrote:

T i m wrote
Rod Speed wrote

but, if you compress something rubber that's
threaded ... what happens to the thread pitch ... ?

Nothing, because the compression is of the
rubber thread into the metal thread, not in the
other direction where it affects the thread pitch.

And how do you think that compression happens?

Like I said, by the compression of the rubber
thread into the metal thread, not in the other
direction where it affects the thread pitch.

How?

By what is around the rubber.

And that is?

Look at the picture.

On Thu, 25 Feb 2016 08:22:06 +1100, "Rod Speed"
wrote:



"T i m" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 25 Feb 2016 07:32:41 +1100, "Rod Speed"
wrote:



"T i m" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 25 Feb 2016 04:42:11 +1100, "Rod Speed"
wrote:

T i m wrote
Rod Speed wrote

but, if you compress something rubber that's
threaded ... what happens to the thread pitch ... ?

Nothing, because the compression is of the
rubber thread into the metal thread, not in the
other direction where it affects the thread pitch.

And how do you think that compression happens?

Like I said, by the compression of the rubber
thread into the metal thread, not in the other
direction where it affects the thread pitch.

How?

By what is around the rubber.

And that is?

Look at the picture.

I know what it looks like, I'm asking you to answer the question.

Cheers, T i m

"T i m" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 25 Feb 2016 08:22:06 +1100, "Rod Speed"
wrote:



"T i m" wrote in message
. ..
On Thu, 25 Feb 2016 07:32:41 +1100, "Rod Speed"
wrote:



"T i m" wrote in message
m...
On Thu, 25 Feb 2016 04:42:11 +1100, "Rod Speed"
wrote:

T i m wrote
Rod Speed wrote

but, if you compress something rubber that's
threaded ... what happens to the thread pitch ... ?

Nothing, because the compression is of the
rubber thread into the metal thread, not in the
other direction where it affects the thread pitch.

And how do you think that compression happens?

Like I said, by the compression of the rubber
thread into the metal thread, not in the other
direction where it affects the thread pitch.

How?

By what is around the rubber.

And that is?

Look at the picture.

I know what it looks like,

But don't understand how it works and where the rubber is compressed by
what.

I'm asking you to answer the question.

And I did.

On Thu, 25 Feb 2016 08:47:03 +1100, "Rod Speed"
wrote:

snip

I know what it looks like,

But don't understand how it works and where the rubber is compressed by
what.

I know how it *could* work, if it was going to, I was just asking you
to explain how you thought it did. So far your explanations haven't
said anything specific.

I'm asking you to answer the question.

And I did.

By asking another question.

Cheers, T i m

T i m wrote
Rod Speed wrote

I know what it looks like,

But don't understand how it works and where the rubber is compressed by
what.

I know how it *could* work, if it was going to,

No you don't, you don't have clue what gets compressed where.

I was just asking you to explain how you thought it did.

And I told you repeatedly that it works by compressing
the threaded part of the rubber into the metal thread.

So far your explanations haven't said anything specific.

That is a lie. I said that it works by compressing the
threaded part of the rubber into the metal thread.

I'm asking you to answer the question.

And I did.

By asking another question.

There is no question that I asked.

On Thu, 25 Feb 2016 09:20:17 +1100, "Rod Speed"
wrote:

T i m wrote
Rod Speed wrote

I know what it looks like,

But don't understand how it works and where the rubber is compressed by
what.

I know how it *could* work, if it was going to,

No you don't, you don't have clue what gets compressed where.

So you say. You are wrong.

I was just asking you to explain how you thought it did.

And I told you repeatedly that it works by compressing
the threaded part of the rubber into the metal thread.

Yes, that's like saying a car moves using an engine.

So far your explanations haven't said anything specific.

That is a lie.

That's a fact, or I wouldn't still be asking you the question.

I said that it works by compressing the
threaded part of the rubber into the metal thread.

Yes, but you haven't explained where those compressive forces come
from. I'll help you out here, it could be from two sources.

I'm asking you to answer the question.

And I did.

By asking another question.

There is no question that I asked.

See above.

Cheers, T i m

T i m wrote
Rod Speed wrote
T i m wrote
Rod Speed wrote

I know what it looks like,

But don't understand how it works and
where the rubber is compressed by what.

I know how it *could* work, if it was going to,

No you don't, you don't have clue what gets compressed where.

So you say. You are wrong.

Nope, you proved that with your claim about the thread of the
rubber being compressed so that the thread spacing changes.

It doesn't, and that's why it works and doesn't leak, because it doesn't.

I was just asking you to explain how you thought it did.

And I told you repeatedly that it works by compressing
the threaded part of the rubber into the metal thread.

Yes, that's like saying a car moves using an engine.

Nothing like. That's how it seals, the rubber
is compressed against the metal thread.

So far your explanations haven't said anything specific.

That is a lie.

That's a fact,

Everyone can see I said something very specific above.

or I wouldn't still be asking you the question.

That's because you are too stupid to understand
the very specific answer or are just playing silly
buggers and lying thru your teeth.

I said that it works by compressing the
threaded part of the rubber into the metal thread.

Yes, but you haven't explained where those compressive forces come from.

Yes I did, have a look at the picture of the part.

Even someone as stupid as you should
be able to see that from the picture.

I'll help you out here,

Another lie.

it could be from two sources.

Wrong, as always.

I'm asking you to answer the question.

And I did.

By asking another question.

There is no question that I asked.

See above.

Completely useless as always with your juvenile stunts.

If you can't manage any better than this silly **** of
yours I'll be ignoring all the rest of your silly ****.

On Thu, 25 Feb 2016 10:11:42 +1100, "Rod Speed"
wrote:

snip no further actual technical descriptions, just bland statements

If you can't manage any better than this silly **** of
yours I'll be ignoring all the rest of your silly ****.

Excellent.

Cheers, T i m