About 3 months ago, her machine started to throw itself around
the kitchen. I guessed at falling off weights as it's a pig to remove it
and left it alone. Having listened to her noises getting louder, I
decided to take the easy way out and buy a new hot and cold fill
machine. Sounds easy but it has taken weeks to find a couple. Today for
entertainment value I decided to try the local retailers as a source.
The first, a small local man, told me they don't exist any more and he
knows because the EU has banned them. I quickly enlightened him that he
is incompetent in my best Victor Meldrew manner. The next call was
Currys, who proudly announced that they only sell cold fill machines as
they are more efficient and that mould growth in cold washing machines
is a problem that customers can live with. The third call was the local
Argos, who very nicely checked with their customer services that they
did not for some reason sell hot and cold fill machines. Before I go on
line and buy the Statesman machine, does anyone know if any of the major
manufacturers offer such a machine? I even idly considered rebuilding
the 10 year old machine, before common sense crept in! ie, new
bearings,seals, springs and timer.

Well, one other thing to consider is a mixer device. A friend of mine says a
mixer device is available for cold fill machines that stops the high
pressure cold going back up the hot feed and you set the mixing to a nice
normally warm temp and it seems to work well.
The issue of the hot running cold is not an issue as of course being a
cold fill only it then just reverts to heating the cold water.
I've not tried it myself, but I do wonder if dual connection machines are
in fact just doing what the hose does inside the machine.
Brian

--
From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active
Remember, if you don't like where I post
or what I say, you don't have to
read my posts! :-)
"Capitol" wrote in message
...
About 3 months ago, her machine started to throw itself around the
kitchen. I guessed at falling off weights as it's a pig to remove it and
left it alone. Having listened to her noises getting louder, I decided to
take the easy way out and buy a new hot and cold fill machine. Sounds easy
but it has taken weeks to find a couple. Today for entertainment value I
decided to try the local retailers as a source. The first, a small local
man, told me they don't exist any more and he knows because the EU has
banned them. I quickly enlightened him that he is incompetent in my best
Victor Meldrew manner. The next call was Currys, who proudly announced
that they only sell cold fill machines as they are more efficient and that
mould growth in cold washing machines is a problem that customers can live
with. The third call was the local Argos, who very nicely checked with
their customer services that they did not for some reason sell hot and
cold fill machines. Before I go on line and buy the Statesman machine,
does anyone know if any of the major manufacturers offer such a machine? I
even idly considered rebuilding the 10 year old machine, before common
sense crept in! ie, new bearings,seals, springs and timer.

On 03/11/15 17:26, Capitol wrote:
About 3 months ago, her machine started to throw itself around
the kitchen. I guessed at falling off weights as it's a pig to remove it
and left it alone. Having listened to her noises getting louder, I
decided to take the easy way out and buy a new hot and cold fill
machine. Sounds easy but it has taken weeks to find a couple. Today for
entertainment value I decided to try the local retailers as a source.
The first, a small local man, told me they don't exist any more and he
knows because the EU has banned them.

To be fair, hot fill is pretty rare - I did not know they still existed!

I quickly enlightened him that he
is incompetent in my best Victor Meldrew manner. The next call was
Currys, who proudly announced that they only sell cold fill machines as
they are more efficient and that mould growth in cold washing machines
is a problem that customers can live with. The third call was the local
Argos, who very nicely checked with their customer services that they
did not for some reason sell hot and cold fill machines. Before I go on
line and buy the Statesman machine, does anyone know if any of the major
manufacturers offer such a machine? I even idly considered rebuilding
the 10 year old machine, before common sense crept in! ie, new
bearings,seals, springs and timer.

The general consensus is: they admit so little hot water that buy the
time the pipe's run through hot or the combi's started up it's half full
of cold anyway.


Personally, I'd give up and just accept cold fill and base your choice
on other factors.

Brian-Gaff wrote:
Well, one other thing to consider is a mixer device. A friend of mine says a
mixer device is available for cold fill machines that stops the high
pressure cold going back up the hot feed and you set the mixing to a nice
normally warm temp and it seems to work well.
The issue of the hot running cold is not an issue as of course being a
cold fill only it then just reverts to heating the cold water.
I've not tried it myself, but I do wonder if dual connection machines are
in fact just doing what the hose does inside the machine.
Brian


Yes, I did consider doing that, as both hot and cold feeds are
equal pressure a simple combiner will work. The advantage of your system
is that rinsing will be done in warm water which is more efficient. I do
not know of any modern washing machine which works properly. The wash is
crap due to lack of water and the rinse totally inadequate for the same
reason.

On Tuesday, 3 November 2015 17:24:54 UTC, Capitol wrote:
About 3 months ago, her machine started to throw itself around
the kitchen. I guessed at falling off weights as it's a pig to remove it
and left it alone. Having listened to her noises getting louder, I
decided to take the easy way out and buy a new hot and cold fill
machine. Sounds easy but it has taken weeks to find a couple. Today for
entertainment value I decided to try the local retailers as a source.
The first, a small local man, told me they don't exist any more and he
knows because the EU has banned them. I quickly enlightened him that he
is incompetent in my best Victor Meldrew manner. The next call was
Currys, who proudly announced that they only sell cold fill machines as
they are more efficient and that mould growth in cold washing machines
is a problem that customers can live with. The third call was the local
Argos, who very nicely checked with their customer services that they
did not for some reason sell hot and cold fill machines. Before I go on
line and buy the Statesman machine, does anyone know if any of the major
manufacturers offer such a machine? I even idly considered rebuilding
the 10 year old machine, before common sense crept in! ie, new
bearings,seals, springs and timer.


(A) Little of the hot water makes it to the machine anyway.
(B) Starting from cold enables a cleaner wash.
Hot water on laundry sets stains in.

Cold water only is cheaper to make.

So that why nobody makes mixed fill washing machines these days.
They told you the truth.

On Tuesday, 3 November 2015 17:44:38 UTC, Capitol wrote:
Brian-Gaff wrote:
Well, one other thing to consider is a mixer device. A friend of mine says a
mixer device is available for cold fill machines that stops the high
pressure cold going back up the hot feed and you set the mixing to a nice
normally warm temp and it seems to work well.
The issue of the hot running cold is not an issue as of course being a
cold fill only it then just reverts to heating the cold water.
I've not tried it myself, but I do wonder if dual connection machines are
in fact just doing what the hose does inside the machine.
Brian


Yes, I did consider doing that, as both hot and cold feeds are
equal pressure a simple combiner will work. The advantage of your system
is that rinsing will be done in warm water which is more efficient. I do
not know of any modern washing machine which works properly. The wash is
crap due to lack of water and the rinse totally inadequate for the same
reason.

Rinsing in hot water is not more efficient.
You get slightly dryer clothes as the spin works better, that's all.

Tim Watts wrote:
On 03/11/15 17:26, Capitol wrote:
About 3 months ago, her machine started to throw itself around
the kitchen. I guessed at falling off weights as it's a pig to remove it
and left it alone. Having listened to her noises getting louder, I
decided to take the easy way out and buy a new hot and cold fill
machine. Sounds easy but it has taken weeks to find a couple. Today for
entertainment value I decided to try the local retailers as a source.
The first, a small local man, told me they don't exist any more and he
knows because the EU has banned them.

To be fair, hot fill is pretty rare - I did not know they still existed!

I quickly enlightened him that he
is incompetent in my best Victor Meldrew manner. The next call was
Currys, who proudly announced that they only sell cold fill machines as
they are more efficient and that mould growth in cold washing machines
is a problem that customers can live with. The third call was the local
Argos, who very nicely checked with their customer services that they
did not for some reason sell hot and cold fill machines. Before I go on
line and buy the Statesman machine, does anyone know if any of the major
manufacturers offer such a machine? I even idly considered rebuilding
the 10 year old machine, before common sense crept in! ie, new
bearings,seals, springs and timer.

The general consensus is: they admit so little hot water that buy the
time the pipe's run through hot or the combi's started up it's half
full of cold anyway.


Personally, I'd give up and just accept cold fill and base your choice
on other factors.
But I can buy the product I want. Do you give up that easily
when faced with a problem?

On Tuesday, 3 November 2015 17:48:34 UTC, Capitol wrote:
Tim Watts wrote:
On 03/11/15 17:26, Capitol wrote:
About 3 months ago, her machine started to throw itself around
the kitchen. I guessed at falling off weights as it's a pig to remove it
and left it alone. Having listened to her noises getting louder, I
decided to take the easy way out and buy a new hot and cold fill
machine. Sounds easy but it has taken weeks to find a couple. Today for
entertainment value I decided to try the local retailers as a source.
The first, a small local man, told me they don't exist any more and he
knows because the EU has banned them.

To be fair, hot fill is pretty rare - I did not know they still existed!

I quickly enlightened him that he
is incompetent in my best Victor Meldrew manner. The next call was
Currys, who proudly announced that they only sell cold fill machines as
they are more efficient and that mould growth in cold washing machines
is a problem that customers can live with. The third call was the local
Argos, who very nicely checked with their customer services that they
did not for some reason sell hot and cold fill machines. Before I go on
line and buy the Statesman machine, does anyone know if any of the major
manufacturers offer such a machine? I even idly considered rebuilding
the 10 year old machine, before common sense crept in! ie, new
bearings,seals, springs and timer.

The general consensus is: they admit so little hot water that buy the
time the pipe's run through hot or the combi's started up it's half
full of cold anyway.


Personally, I'd give up and just accept cold fill and base your choice
on other factors.
But I can buy the product I want. Do you give up that easily
when faced with a problem?

There is no problem.

On 03/11/15 17:50, Capitol wrote:
Tim Watts wrote:

Personally, I'd give up and just accept cold fill and base your choice
on other factors.
But I can buy the product I want. Do you give up that easily
when faced with a problem?

I don't consider it much of a problem in this particular domain. Even on
a hot wash, the machine will not take on hot on every fill (some rinses
are cold).

You of course may view it differently, but is the trade off worth it?
How many pennies will it save per wash and will you overly compromise on
other factors?

On Tue, 03 Nov 2015 17:50:30 +0000, Capitol wrote:

Tim Watts wrote:
On 03/11/15 17:26, Capitol wrote:
About 3 months ago, her machine started to throw itself
around
the kitchen. I guessed at falling off weights as it's a pig to remove
it and left it alone. Having listened to her noises getting louder, I
decided to take the easy way out and buy a new hot and cold fill
machine. Sounds easy but it has taken weeks to find a couple. Today
for entertainment value I decided to try the local retailers as a
source. The first, a small local man, told me they don't exist any
more and he knows because the EU has banned them.

To be fair, hot fill is pretty rare - I did not know they still
existed!

I quickly enlightened him that he is incompetent in my best Victor
Meldrew manner. The next call was Currys, who proudly announced that
they only sell cold fill machines as they are more efficient and that
mould growth in cold washing machines is a problem that customers can
live with. The third call was the local Argos, who very nicely checked
with their customer services that they did not for some reason sell
hot and cold fill machines. Before I go on line and buy the Statesman
machine, does anyone know if any of the major manufacturers offer such
a machine? I even idly considered rebuilding the 10 year old machine,
before common sense crept in! ie, new bearings,seals, springs and
timer.

The general consensus is: they admit so little hot water that buy the
time the pipe's run through hot or the combi's started up it's half
full of cold anyway.


Personally, I'd give up and just accept cold fill and base your choice
on other factors.
But I can buy the product I want. Do you give up that easily
when faced with a problem?

There is no problem. Cold fill works better. Buy the one you want, though.

"Capitol" wrote in message
...
About 3 months ago, her machine started to throw itself around the
kitchen. I guessed at falling off weights as it's a pig to remove it and
left it alone. Having listened to her noises getting louder, I decided to
take the easy way out and buy a new hot and cold fill machine. Sounds easy
but it has taken weeks to find a couple. Today for entertainment value I
decided to try the local retailers as a source. The first, a small local
man, told me they don't exist any more and he knows because the EU has
banned them. I quickly enlightened him that he is incompetent in my best
Victor Meldrew manner. The next call was Currys, who proudly announced
that they only sell cold fill machines as they are more efficient and that
mould growth in cold washing machines is a problem that customers can live
with. The third call was the local Argos, who very nicely checked with
their customer services that they did not for some reason sell hot and
cold fill machines. Before I go on line and buy the Statesman machine,
does anyone know if any of the major manufacturers offer such a machine? I
even idly considered rebuilding the 10 year old machine, before common
sense crept in! ie, new bearings,seals, springs and timer.

An automatic washing machine is a waste to my missus. She runs the hot tap
in the sink until its hot, opens the machine tap and closes the sink tap.
When it finishes filling she adds another load of hot water via the powder
draw. These modern machines attempt to wash in air only, almost.



---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

On 11/3/2015 12:26 PM, Capitol wrote:
About 3 months ago, her machine started to throw itself around
the kitchen. I guessed at falling off weights as it's a pig to remove it
and left it alone. Having listened to her noises getting louder, I
decided to take the easy way out and buy a new hot and cold fill
machine. Sounds easy but it has taken weeks to find a couple. Today for
entertainment value I decided to try the local retailers as a source.
The first, a small local man, told me they don't exist any more and he
knows because the EU has banned them. I quickly enlightened him that he
is incompetent in my best Victor Meldrew manner. The next call was
Currys, who proudly announced that they only sell cold fill machines as
they are more efficient and that mould growth in cold washing machines
is a problem that customers can live with. The third call was the local
Argos, who very nicely checked with their customer services that they
did not for some reason sell hot and cold fill machines. Before I go on
line and buy the Statesman machine, does anyone know if any of the major
manufacturers offer such a machine? I even idly considered rebuilding
the 10 year old machine, before common sense crept in! ie, new
bearings,seals, springs and timer.

http://www.johnlewis.com/hotpoint-signature-wmsig9637bc-freestanding-washing-machine-9kg-load-a-energy-rating-1600rpm-spin-white/p1799315

"Capitol" wrote in message
...
Tim Watts wrote:
On 03/11/15 17:26, Capitol wrote:
About 3 months ago, her machine started to throw itself around
the kitchen. I guessed at falling off weights as it's a pig to remove it
and left it alone. Having listened to her noises getting louder, I
decided to take the easy way out and buy a new hot and cold fill
machine. Sounds easy but it has taken weeks to find a couple. Today for
entertainment value I decided to try the local retailers as a source.
The first, a small local man, told me they don't exist any more and he
knows because the EU has banned them.

To be fair, hot fill is pretty rare - I did not know they still existed!

I quickly enlightened him that he
is incompetent in my best Victor Meldrew manner. The next call was
Currys, who proudly announced that they only sell cold fill machines as
they are more efficient and that mould growth in cold washing machines
is a problem that customers can live with. The third call was the local
Argos, who very nicely checked with their customer services that they
did not for some reason sell hot and cold fill machines. Before I go on
line and buy the Statesman machine, does anyone know if any of the major
manufacturers offer such a machine? I even idly considered rebuilding
the 10 year old machine, before common sense crept in! ie, new
bearings,seals, springs and timer.

The general consensus is: they admit so little hot water that buy the
time the pipe's run through hot or the combi's started up it's half full
of cold anyway.


Personally, I'd give up and just accept cold fill and base your choice on
other factors.
But I can buy the product I want. Do you give up that easily when
faced with a problem?


What he's saying (and correctly so I might add) is that you can only buy a
cold fill washing machine. You can *pay* for a hot and cold fill washing
machine, but you are still only *getting* a cold fill washing machine as the
water takes that long to get from the boiler to the machine that no hot
water will reach it, tepid perhaps, but not hot

On Tue, 3 Nov 2015 19:35:55 -0000, "Phil L"
wrote:


"Capitol" wrote in message
...
Tim Watts wrote:
On 03/11/15 17:26, Capitol wrote:
About 3 months ago, her machine started to throw itself around
the kitchen. I guessed at falling off weights as it's a pig to remove it
and left it alone. Having listened to her noises getting louder, I
decided to take the easy way out and buy a new hot and cold fill
machine. Sounds easy but it has taken weeks to find a couple. Today for
entertainment value I decided to try the local retailers as a source.
The first, a small local man, told me they don't exist any more and he
knows because the EU has banned them.

To be fair, hot fill is pretty rare - I did not know they still existed!

I quickly enlightened him that he
is incompetent in my best Victor Meldrew manner. The next call was
Currys, who proudly announced that they only sell cold fill machines as
they are more efficient and that mould growth in cold washing machines
is a problem that customers can live with. The third call was the local
Argos, who very nicely checked with their customer services that they
did not for some reason sell hot and cold fill machines. Before I go on
line and buy the Statesman machine, does anyone know if any of the major
manufacturers offer such a machine? I even idly considered rebuilding
the 10 year old machine, before common sense crept in! ie, new
bearings,seals, springs and timer.

The general consensus is: they admit so little hot water that buy the
time the pipe's run through hot or the combi's started up it's half full
of cold anyway.


Personally, I'd give up and just accept cold fill and base your choice on
other factors.
But I can buy the product I want. Do you give up that easily when
faced with a problem?


What he's saying (and correctly so I might add) is that you can only buy a
cold fill washing machine. You can *pay* for a hot and cold fill washing
machine, but you are still only *getting* a cold fill washing machine as the
water takes that long to get from the boiler to the machine that no hot
water will reach it, tepid perhaps, but not hot


The machine could just dump the first 3 or 4 litres to the drain,
after all, that's what you or I would do if hand washing.



--

Graham.

%Profound_observation%

On Tue, 3 Nov 2015 18:57:48 -0000, "bm" wrote:


"Capitol" wrote in message
...
About 3 months ago, her machine started to throw itself around the
kitchen. I guessed at falling off weights as it's a pig to remove it and
left it alone. Having listened to her noises getting louder, I decided to
take the easy way out and buy a new hot and cold fill machine. Sounds easy
but it has taken weeks to find a couple. Today for entertainment value I
decided to try the local retailers as a source. The first, a small local
man, told me they don't exist any more and he knows because the EU has
banned them. I quickly enlightened him that he is incompetent in my best
Victor Meldrew manner. The next call was Currys, who proudly announced
that they only sell cold fill machines as they are more efficient and that
mould growth in cold washing machines is a problem that customers can live
with. The third call was the local Argos, who very nicely checked with
their customer services that they did not for some reason sell hot and
cold fill machines. Before I go on line and buy the Statesman machine,
does anyone know if any of the major manufacturers offer such a machine? I
even idly considered rebuilding the 10 year old machine, before common
sense crept in! ie, new bearings,seals, springs and timer.

An automatic washing machine is a waste to my missus. She runs the hot tap
in the sink until its hot, opens the machine tap and closes the sink tap.
When it finishes filling she adds another load of hot water via the powder
draw. These modern machines attempt to wash in air only, almost.


That sounds almost as difficult as topping up your oil via the
dip-stick hole.


--

Graham.

%Profound_observation%

On 03/11/2015 18:33, Bob Eager wrote:
On Tue, 03 Nov 2015 17:50:30 +0000, Capitol wrote:

Tim Watts wrote:
On 03/11/15 17:26, Capitol wrote:

Personally, I'd give up and just accept cold fill and base your choice
on other factors.
But I can buy the product I want. Do you give up that easily
when faced with a problem?

There is no problem. Cold fill works better. Buy the one you want, though.

That's my understanding. The heating time is part of the pre-soak that
the powder needs to get the most out of it.

--
F

harry wrote:
On Tuesday, 3 November 2015 17:24:54 UTC, Capitol wrote:

About 3 months ago, her machine started to throw itself around
the kitchen. I guessed at falling off weights as it's a pig to remove it
and left it alone. Having listened to her noises getting louder, I
decided to take the easy way out and buy a new hot and cold fill
machine. Sounds easy but it has taken weeks to find a couple. Today for
entertainment value I decided to try the local retailers as a source.
The first, a small local man, told me they don't exist any more and he
knows because the EU has banned them. I quickly enlightened him that he
is incompetent in my best Victor Meldrew manner. The next call was
Currys, who proudly announced that they only sell cold fill machines as
they are more efficient and that mould growth in cold washing machines
is a problem that customers can live with. The third call was the local
Argos, who very nicely checked with their customer services that they
did not for some reason sell hot and cold fill machines. Before I go on
line and buy the Statesman machine, does anyone know if any of the major
manufacturers offer such a machine? I even idly considered rebuilding
the 10 year old machine, before common sense crept in! ie, new
bearings,seals, springs and timer.


(A) Little of the hot water makes it to the machine anyway.
(B) Starting from cold enables a cleaner wash.
Hot water on laundry sets stains in.

Cold water only is cheaper to make.

So that why nobody makes mixed fill washing machines these days.
They told you the truth.

So why does the US market use hot and cold fill machines? You
are regurgitating someone else's opinion as fact. Cold fill washing
machines only work properly with bio powders. Go away and do some
research. If I am prepared to pay for the product it should be readily
available, not all us want to use washboards!

Graham. wrote:

"Phil L" wrote:

What he's saying (and correctly so I might add) is that you can only buy a
cold fill washing machine. You can *pay* for a hot and cold fill washing
machine, but you are still only *getting* a cold fill washing machine as the
water takes that long to get from the boiler to the machine that no hot
water will reach it, tepid perhaps, but not hot

The machine could just dump the first 3 or 4 litres to the drain,
after all, that's what you or I would do if hand washing.

I draw the cold leg from the mixer tap, so that when the W/M starts
asking for hot water, it does get some ...

"Graham." wrote in message
...
On Tue, 3 Nov 2015 19:35:55 -0000, "Phil L"
wrote:


"Capitol" wrote in message
...
Tim Watts wrote:
On 03/11/15 17:26, Capitol wrote:
About 3 months ago, her machine started to throw itself
around
the kitchen. I guessed at falling off weights as it's a pig to remove
it
and left it alone. Having listened to her noises getting louder, I
decided to take the easy way out and buy a new hot and cold fill
machine. Sounds easy but it has taken weeks to find a couple. Today
for
entertainment value I decided to try the local retailers as a source.
The first, a small local man, told me they don't exist any more and he
knows because the EU has banned them.

To be fair, hot fill is pretty rare - I did not know they still
existed!

I quickly enlightened him that he
is incompetent in my best Victor Meldrew manner. The next call was
Currys, who proudly announced that they only sell cold fill machines
as
they are more efficient and that mould growth in cold washing machines
is a problem that customers can live with. The third call was the
local
Argos, who very nicely checked with their customer services that they
did not for some reason sell hot and cold fill machines. Before I go
on
line and buy the Statesman machine, does anyone know if any of the
major
manufacturers offer such a machine? I even idly considered rebuilding
the 10 year old machine, before common sense crept in! ie, new
bearings,seals, springs and timer.

The general consensus is: they admit so little hot water that buy the
time the pipe's run through hot or the combi's started up it's half
full
of cold anyway.


Personally, I'd give up and just accept cold fill and base your choice
on
other factors.
But I can buy the product I want. Do you give up that easily
when
faced with a problem?


What he's saying (and correctly so I might add) is that you can only buy a
cold fill washing machine. You can *pay* for a hot and cold fill washing
machine, but you are still only *getting* a cold fill washing machine as
the
water takes that long to get from the boiler to the machine that no hot
water will reach it, tepid perhaps, but not hot


The machine could just dump the first 3 or 4 litres to the drain,

If it did that it would look very bad in the eco ratings, so they don't.

after all, that's what you or I would do if hand washing.

S Viemeister wrote:
On 11/3/2015 12:26 PM, Capitol wrote:
About 3 months ago, her machine started to throw itself around
the kitchen. I guessed at falling off weights as it's a pig to remove it
and left it alone. Having listened to her noises getting louder, I
decided to take the easy way out and buy a new hot and cold fill
machine. Sounds easy but it has taken weeks to find a couple. Today for
entertainment value I decided to try the local retailers as a source.
The first, a small local man, told me they don't exist any more and he
knows because the EU has banned them. I quickly enlightened him that he
is incompetent in my best Victor Meldrew manner. The next call was
Currys, who proudly announced that they only sell cold fill machines as
they are more efficient and that mould growth in cold washing machines
is a problem that customers can live with. The third call was the local
Argos, who very nicely checked with their customer services that they
did not for some reason sell hot and cold fill machines. Before I go on
line and buy the Statesman machine, does anyone know if any of the major
manufacturers offer such a machine? I even idly considered rebuilding
the 10 year old machine, before common sense crept in! ie, new
bearings,seals, springs and timer.

http://www.johnlewis.com/hotpoint-signature-wmsig9637bc-freestanding-washing-machine-9kg-load-a-energy-rating-1600rpm-spin-white/p1799315

I missed that one, but the 60 degree cycle time of 205 minutes
is totally unacceptable. It's also too big to fit the space. IMO the
spin speed is also too high for reliability.

On 03/11/2015 20:35, Capitol wrote:
harry wrote:
On Tuesday, 3 November 2015 17:24:54 UTC, Capitol wrote:
About 3 months ago, her machine started to throw itself around
the kitchen. I guessed at falling off weights as it's a pig to remove it
and left it alone. Having listened to her noises getting louder, I
decided to take the easy way out and buy a new hot and cold fill
machine. Sounds easy but it has taken weeks to find a couple. Today for

(A) Little of the hot water makes it to the machine anyway.
(B) Starting from cold enables a cleaner wash.
Hot water on laundry sets stains in.

Cold water only is cheaper to make.

So that why nobody makes mixed fill washing machines these days.
They told you the truth.

For once Harry is actually right. The market switched over about a
decade ago so you possibly bought one of the last dual fill machines.

Even when you have cheap hot water freely available it still isn't worth
it for the amount that the washing machine will require.

So why does the US market use hot and cold fill machines? You

They still think top loaders are kewl too.

are regurgitating someone else's opinion as fact. Cold fill washing
machines only work properly with bio powders. Go away and do some

Which is now the majority of the market. If you want to use lye and
animal fat to get the woad out of your shirt then expect to pay dearly.

research. If I am prepared to pay for the product it should be readily
available, not all us want to use washboards!

It *is* available if you are prepared to pay through the nose for it and
have a circulating hot water system that gives instant hot water.
(US homes sometimes have this feature which in the UK is only really
found in hotels and very upmarket large homes).

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On 03/11/15 20:42, Capitol wrote:
IMO the
spin speed is also too high for reliability.

Depends who makes it.

Miele can handle 1200, 1400 and 1600 (depending on age of machine). Mine
is the older 1200 rpm and that's been chugging along on about 6-8 washes
a week (kids!) since about 2006.

"Capitol" wrote in message
o.uk...
harry wrote:
On Tuesday, 3 November 2015 17:24:54 UTC, Capitol wrote:

About 3 months ago, her machine started to throw itself around
the kitchen. I guessed at falling off weights as it's a pig to remove it
and left it alone. Having listened to her noises getting louder, I
decided to take the easy way out and buy a new hot and cold fill
machine. Sounds easy but it has taken weeks to find a couple. Today for
entertainment value I decided to try the local retailers as a source.
The first, a small local man, told me they don't exist any more and he
knows because the EU has banned them. I quickly enlightened him that he
is incompetent in my best Victor Meldrew manner. The next call was
Currys, who proudly announced that they only sell cold fill machines as
they are more efficient and that mould growth in cold washing machines
is a problem that customers can live with. The third call was the local
Argos, who very nicely checked with their customer services that they
did not for some reason sell hot and cold fill machines. Before I go on
line and buy the Statesman machine, does anyone know if any of the major
manufacturers offer such a machine? I even idly considered rebuilding
the 10 year old machine, before common sense crept in! ie, new
bearings,seals, springs and timer.


(A) Little of the hot water makes it to the machine anyway.
(B) Starting from cold enables a cleaner wash.
Hot water on laundry sets stains in.

Cold water only is cheaper to make.

So that why nobody makes mixed fill washing machines these days.
They told you the truth.

So why does the US market use hot and cold fill machines? You are
regurgitating someone else's opinion as fact. Cold fill washing machines
only work properly with bio powders. Go away and do some research. If I am
prepared to pay for the product it should be readily available,

Not if hardly anyone wants one of those.

not all us want to use washboards!

Martin Brown wrote:

Which is now the majority of the market. If you want to use lye and
animal fat to get the woad out of your shirt then expect to pay dearly.
So, thats why non bio powders are so popular with families who
react to the bio ones. Is your other name Harry?

On Tue, 03 Nov 2015 20:35:07 +0000, Capitol wrote:

So why does the US market use hot and cold fill machines? You
are regurgitating someone else's opinion as fact. Cold fill washing
machines only work properly with bio powders.

The word is 'fill'. Not 'wash'.

On 11/3/2015 2:59 PM, Graham. wrote:
On Tue, 3 Nov 2015 19:35:55 -0000, "Phil L"
What he's saying (and correctly so I might add) is that you can only buy a
cold fill washing machine. You can *pay* for a hot and cold fill washing
machine, but you are still only *getting* a cold fill washing machine as the
water takes that long to get from the boiler to the machine that no hot
water will reach it, tepid perhaps, but not hot

The machine could just dump the first 3 or 4 litres to the drain,
after all, that's what you or I would do if hand washing.

My washer is installed right next to the boiler. Hot water _does_ reach
that washer rather quickly.

On 11/3/2015 3:35 PM, Capitol wrote:
So why does the US market use hot and cold fill machines?

Very few US washers heat their own water - most use hot water from a
separate hot water heating cylinder/tank.

Capitol wrote:
harry wrote:
On Tuesday, 3 November 2015 17:24:54 UTC, Capitol wrote:

About 3 months ago, her machine started to throw itself around
the kitchen. I guessed at falling off weights as it's a pig to remove it
and left it alone. Having listened to her noises getting louder, I
decided to take the easy way out and buy a new hot and cold fill
machine. Sounds easy but it has taken weeks to find a couple. Today for
entertainment value I decided to try the local retailers as a source.
The first, a small local man, told me they don't exist any more and he
knows because the EU has banned them. I quickly enlightened him that he
is incompetent in my best Victor Meldrew manner. The next call was
Currys, who proudly announced that they only sell cold fill machines as
they are more efficient and that mould growth in cold washing machines
is a problem that customers can live with. The third call was the local
Argos, who very nicely checked with their customer services that they
did not for some reason sell hot and cold fill machines. Before I go on
line and buy the Statesman machine, does anyone know if any of the major
manufacturers offer such a machine? I even idly considered rebuilding
the 10 year old machine, before common sense crept in! ie, new
bearings,seals, springs and timer.


(A) Little of the hot water makes it to the machine anyway.
(B) Starting from cold enables a cleaner wash.
Hot water on laundry sets stains in.

Cold water only is cheaper to make.

So that why nobody makes mixed fill washing machines these days.
They told you the truth.

So why does the US market use hot and cold fill machines?

Because they're stuck in the dark ages with regards to washing machines?

You
are regurgitating someone else's opinion as fact. Cold fill washing
machines only work properly with bio powders. Go away and do some
research. If I am prepared to pay for the product it should be readily
available, not all us want to use washboards!


The only time we've used a US washing machine it's performance was very
unimpressive.

Tim

Tim+ wrote:
wrote:

harry wrote:

On Tuesday, 3 November 2015 17:24:54 UTC, Capitol wrote:


About 3 months ago, her machine started to throw itself around
the kitchen. I guessed at falling off weights as it's a pig to remove it
and left it alone. Having listened to her noises getting louder, I
decided to take the easy way out and buy a new hot and cold fill
machine. Sounds easy but it has taken weeks to find a couple. Today for
entertainment value I decided to try the local retailers as a source.
The first, a small local man, told me they don't exist any more and he
knows because the EU has banned them. I quickly enlightened him that he
is incompetent in my best Victor Meldrew manner. The next call was
Currys, who proudly announced that they only sell cold fill machines as
they are more efficient and that mould growth in cold washing machines
is a problem that customers can live with. The third call was the local
Argos, who very nicely checked with their customer services that they
did not for some reason sell hot and cold fill machines. Before I go on
line and buy the Statesman machine, does anyone know if any of the major
manufacturers offer such a machine? I even idly considered rebuilding
the 10 year old machine, before common sense crept in! ie, new
bearings,seals, springs and timer.


(A) Little of the hot water makes it to the machine anyway.
(B) Starting from cold enables a cleaner wash.
Hot water on laundry sets stains in.

Cold water only is cheaper to make.

So that why nobody makes mixed fill washing machines these days.
They told you the truth.


So why does the US market use hot and cold fill machines?

Because they're stuck in the dark ages with regards to washing machines?


You
are regurgitating someone else's opinion as fact. Cold fill washing
machines only work properly with bio powders. Go away and do some
research. If I am prepared to pay for the product it should be readily
available, not all us want to use washboards!


The only time we've used a US washing machine it's performance was very
unimpressive.

Tim



Date?

In message , Capitol
writes
Tim+ wrote:
wrote:

You
are regurgitating someone else's opinion as fact. Cold fill washing
machines only work properly with bio powders. Go away and do some
research. If I am prepared to pay for the product it should be readily
available, not all us want to use washboards!


The only time we've used a US washing machine it's performance was
very
unimpressive.


Date?

Was staying with relatives in Canada in 2011.

I was unimpressed with the washing performance of their washing machine,
compared to ours. Which was a top loading US style machine, presumably
the same sort of thing. Don't know the age of the machine though.

Back to the UK, why would a cold fill only machine only work well with
bio powders? I use both bio and non bio powders in ours and they both
work well.- They take cold water and heat it up, as opposed to using
some hot water as well and then heating that up.. True they heat the
water at a speed that enables the enzymes to work first (if it is a hot
wash program). But hot and cold fill machines will do the same thing,
it's just that they will use some hot water to raise the wash water
temp.

I would imagine that even H&C fill machines don't use hot water on the
cooler wash programs. Probably only using hot water to fill on the 60+
programs. But they will still start off cool and then heat up, mostly
using the hot fill water to raise the water temp higher later on in the
wash I expect.


--
Chris French

On 03/11/2015 17:26, Capitol wrote:


that mould growth in cold washing machines
is a problem that customers can live with.

Is mould due to cold fill or just steam from hot water condensing in
various parts of the machine?

Unless you have 'very heavy duty soiled' washing why not just use cold
water and cold water liquid detergent. Even with something that YOU may
think requires a hot wash rinsing or pre washing in cold water first is
beneficial in that it doesn't cook in stains.

In this household 98% of washes are from the cold supply with no heating
in the machine. To keep the machine smelling fresh, about once every
two/three months do an empty hot wash using a whole packet of washing
soda crystals
http://www.tesco.com/groceries/produ.../?id=285047163
@ £1 per kg (or £1 for 2 packs from some 99p/pound type stores)


--
mailto: news {at} admac {dot] myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

"alan_m" wrote in message
...
On 03/11/2015 17:26, Capitol wrote:


that mould growth in cold washing machines
is a problem that customers can live with.

Is mould due to cold fill or just steam from hot water condensing in
various parts of the machine?

Dunno, I don’t get mould in mine and only ever cold wash.

Unless you have 'very heavy duty soiled' washing why not just use cold
water and cold water liquid detergent.

Yeah, I do, and don’t use a special
cold water liquid detergent either.

Even with something that YOU may think requires a hot wash rinsing or pre
washing in cold water first is beneficial in that it doesn't cook in
stains.

I don’t have a problem with stains generally.

Have seen a few examples of fat that ends up
on something when you are eating a bit hard
to get off some light colored sweat tops at most.

In this household 98% of washes are from the cold supply with no heating
in the machine.

Mine is essentially 100%.

The only thing I normally used to do hot was
filthy overalls after working on the car and the
cars I have had for more than 40 years now
haven't needed any of that sort of work done
on them at all.

To keep the machine smelling fresh, about once every two/three months do
an empty hot wash using a whole packet of washing soda crystals
http://www.tesco.com/groceries/produ.../?id=285047163
@ £1 per kg (or £1 for 2 packs from some 99p/pound type stores)

I don’t do anything like that. Don’t do anything special at all.
Don’t get any mould at all or any smells at all.

On Tuesday, 3 November 2015 20:33:10 UTC, Capitol wrote:
harry wrote:
On Tuesday, 3 November 2015 17:24:54 UTC, Capitol wrote:

About 3 months ago, her machine started to throw itself around
the kitchen. I guessed at falling off weights as it's a pig to remove it
and left it alone. Having listened to her noises getting louder, I
decided to take the easy way out and buy a new hot and cold fill
machine. Sounds easy but it has taken weeks to find a couple. Today for
entertainment value I decided to try the local retailers as a source.
The first, a small local man, told me they don't exist any more and he
knows because the EU has banned them. I quickly enlightened him that he
is incompetent in my best Victor Meldrew manner. The next call was
Currys, who proudly announced that they only sell cold fill machines as
they are more efficient and that mould growth in cold washing machines
is a problem that customers can live with. The third call was the local
Argos, who very nicely checked with their customer services that they
did not for some reason sell hot and cold fill machines. Before I go on
line and buy the Statesman machine, does anyone know if any of the major
manufacturers offer such a machine? I even idly considered rebuilding
the 10 year old machine, before common sense crept in! ie, new
bearings,seals, springs and timer.


(A) Little of the hot water makes it to the machine anyway.
(B) Starting from cold enables a cleaner wash.
Hot water on laundry sets stains in.

Cold water only is cheaper to make.

So that why nobody makes mixed fill washing machines these days.
They told you the truth.

So why does the US market use hot and cold fill machines? You
are regurgitating someone else's opinion as fact. Cold fill washing
machines only work properly with bio powders. Go away and do some
research. If I am prepared to pay for the product it should be readily
available, not all us want to use washboards!

I used to manage maintenance in a commercial laundry ****-fer-brains. So it's not opinion.

Consumers in the USA are largely brain dead.
They believe what thy're told to believe.
Comes from watching Fox TV.

Your beliefs concern biological powders are drivel.

There are no/few hot water machines available for the reasons I gave.
Only the brain dead don't know about this, it has been common knowledge for years and makes perfect sense.

On Tuesday, 3 November 2015 21:41:45 UTC, Tim wrote:
Capitol wrote:
harry wrote:
On Tuesday, 3 November 2015 17:24:54 UTC, Capitol wrote:

About 3 months ago, her machine started to throw itself around
the kitchen. I guessed at falling off weights as it's a pig to remove it
and left it alone. Having listened to her noises getting louder, I
decided to take the easy way out and buy a new hot and cold fill
machine. Sounds easy but it has taken weeks to find a couple. Today for
entertainment value I decided to try the local retailers as a source.
The first, a small local man, told me they don't exist any more and he
knows because the EU has banned them. I quickly enlightened him that he
is incompetent in my best Victor Meldrew manner. The next call was
Currys, who proudly announced that they only sell cold fill machines as
they are more efficient and that mould growth in cold washing machines
is a problem that customers can live with. The third call was the local
Argos, who very nicely checked with their customer services that they
did not for some reason sell hot and cold fill machines. Before I go on
line and buy the Statesman machine, does anyone know if any of the major
manufacturers offer such a machine? I even idly considered rebuilding
the 10 year old machine, before common sense crept in! ie, new
bearings,seals, springs and timer.


(A) Little of the hot water makes it to the machine anyway.
(B) Starting from cold enables a cleaner wash.
Hot water on laundry sets stains in.

Cold water only is cheaper to make.

So that why nobody makes mixed fill washing machines these days.
They told you the truth.

So why does the US market use hot and cold fill machines?

Because they're stuck in the dark ages with regards to washing machines?

You
are regurgitating someone else's opinion as fact. Cold fill washing
machines only work properly with bio powders. Go away and do some
research. If I am prepared to pay for the product it should be readily
available, not all us want to use washboards!


The only time we've used a US washing machine it's performance was very
unimpressive.

Tim

True.
I have experience with US made "Speed Queen" and "Maytag" washing machines.
The one advantage was they were almost indestructible.
Poor performance, used lots of water and electricity.
(More than twice as much.)
Positively primitive.

On 03/11/15 23:34, alan_m wrote:
On 03/11/2015 17:26, Capitol wrote:


that mould growth in cold washing machines
is a problem that customers can live with.

Is mould due to cold fill or just steam from hot water condensing in
various parts of the machine?

It's due to not running a 90C wash every couple of weeks or so.

Miele now have a hygiene light that comes and and forces you to do one
as they've had problems with hoses getting fouled up plus "stinky drum".




Unless you have 'very heavy duty soiled' washing why not just use cold
water and cold water liquid detergent. Even with something that YOU may
think requires a hot wash rinsing or pre washing in cold water first is
beneficial in that it doesn't cook in stains.

In this household 98% of washes are from the cold supply with no heating
in the machine. To keep the machine smelling fresh, about once every
two/three months do an empty hot wash using a whole packet of washing
soda crystals
http://www.tesco.com/groceries/produ.../?id=285047163
@ £1 per kg (or £1 for 2 packs from some 99p/pound type stores)

On 03/11/2015 17:50, Capitol wrote:
Tim Watts wrote:

Personally, I'd give up and just accept cold fill and base your choice
on other factors.
But I can buy the product I want. Do you give up that easily
when faced with a problem?

You can buy the product you *think* you want. However have you checked
that its not also a low water usage machine?

Hot and cold fill is pretty pointless on machines with very low water
consumption.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

Chris French wrote:
In message ,
Capitol writes
Tim+ wrote:
wrote:

You
are regurgitating someone else's opinion as fact. Cold fill washing
machines only work properly with bio powders. Go away and do some
research. If I am prepared to pay for the product it should be readily
available, not all us want to use washboards!


The only time we've used a US washing machine it's performance was very
unimpressive.


Date?

Was staying with relatives in Canada in 2011.

I was unimpressed with the washing performance of their washing
machine, compared to ours. Which was a top loading US style machine,
presumably the same sort of thing. Don't know the age of the machine
though.

Back to the UK, why would a cold fill only machine only work well with
bio powders? I use both bio and non bio powders in ours and they both
work well.- They take cold water and heat it up, as opposed to using
some hot water as well and then heating that up.. True they heat the
water at a speed that enables the enzymes to work first (if it is a
hot wash program). But hot and cold fill machines will do the same
thing, it's just that they will use some hot water to raise the wash
water temp.

I would imagine that even H&C fill machines don't use hot water on the
cooler wash programs. Probably only using hot water to fill on the 60+
programs. But they will still start off cool and then heat up, mostly
using the hot fill water to raise the water temp higher later on in
the wash I expect.


Been using US LG front loading washing machine dual fill and
separate tumble dryer since 2011. These have done 3K washes at various
temperatures and perform far, far better than any machine she has come
across in the UK. I considered revamping the kitchen to fit a couple of
these 700mm wide (?) machines in but couldn't justify the work. I
estimate the last UK machine did 2K washes max before breaking. The hot
water usage on dual fill machines can take place at any temperature
above say 5C , depends entirely on how good the design is. IMO no cold
fill machine can ever work well. The laws of diffusion say so.

harry wrote:
On Tuesday, 3 November 2015 20:33:10 UTC, Capitol wrote:

harry wrote:

On Tuesday, 3 November 2015 17:24:54 UTC, Capitol wrote:


About 3 months ago, her machine started to throw itself around
the kitchen. I guessed at falling off weights as it's a pig to remove it
and left it alone. Having listened to her noises getting louder, I
decided to take the easy way out and buy a new hot and cold fill
machine. Sounds easy but it has taken weeks to find a couple. Today for
entertainment value I decided to try the local retailers as a source.
The first, a small local man, told me they don't exist any more and he
knows because the EU has banned them. I quickly enlightened him that he
is incompetent in my best Victor Meldrew manner. The next call was
Currys, who proudly announced that they only sell cold fill machines as
they are more efficient and that mould growth in cold washing machines
is a problem that customers can live with. The third call was the local
Argos, who very nicely checked with their customer services that they
did not for some reason sell hot and cold fill machines. Before I go on
line and buy the Statesman machine, does anyone know if any of the major
manufacturers offer such a machine? I even idly considered rebuilding
the 10 year old machine, before common sense crept in! ie, new
bearings,seals, springs and timer.


(A) Little of the hot water makes it to the machine anyway.
(B) Starting from cold enables a cleaner wash.
Hot water on laundry sets stains in.

Cold water only is cheaper to make.

So that why nobody makes mixed fill washing machines these days.
They told you the truth.


So why does the US market use hot and cold fill machines? You
are regurgitating someone else's opinion as fact. Cold fill washing
machines only work properly with bio powders. Go away and do some
research. If I am prepared to pay for the product it should be readily
available, not all us want to use washboards!

I used to manage maintenance in a commercial laundry ****-fer-brains. So it's not opinion.

Consumers in the USA are largely brain dead.
They believe what thy're told to believe.
Comes from watching Fox TV.

Your beliefs concern biological powders are drivel.

There are no/few hot water machines available for the reasons I gave.
Only the brain dead don't know about this, it has been common knowledge for years and makes perfect sense.

It is opinion if you haven't done the testing or the research.
The idiot who told me that the EU had banned the machines was also a
maintenance man. Get yourself educated.

On 03/11/2015 20:35, Capitol wrote:

So why does the US market use hot and cold fill machines?

US machines are not really comparable to UK ones for several reasons.
Generally they are much larger, use far more water, are often top
loaders. Also many will be designed to run from a 120V AC supply, which
limits the electrical input power to around 1.8kW, which makes in
machine heating less effective.

You
are regurgitating someone else's opinion as fact.

Surprisingly for harry, in this case he is being mostly factual. With
the exception of older recon or re-manufactured machines, or imports of
products designed for other markets, the vast majority of machines you
will find *are* cold fill only. (as you have found!)

That does not mean that dual fill are impossible to find, just
difficult. If they also comply with the requirements for low water
usage, then they won't work as well as dual fill machines used to - in
fact they will be worse than a modern cold fill one.

Cold fill washing
machines only work properly with bio powders.

They will work with non bio as well. You will get better cleaning with
bio, but that is true regardless of the machine type.

Go away and do some
research. If I am prepared to pay for the product it should be readily
available, not all us want to use washboards!

Define "should be available"? If there is no market for a product
(either because technology or legislation has moved on), then the fact
that there are a small band of hold outs that still hanker for how it
used to be does not in itself create a viable market.

A friend of mine had great difficulty finding a replacement twin tub
machine that his mother insisted she wanted - took months, but
eventually a company that recons them was able to supply.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Wednesday, 4 November 2015 09:48:35 UTC+1, Tim Watts wrote:
On 03/11/15 23:34, alan_m wrote:
On 03/11/2015 17:26, Capitol wrote:


that mould growth in cold washing machines
is a problem that customers can live with.

Is mould due to cold fill or just steam from hot water condensing in
various parts of the machine?

It's due to not running a 90C wash every couple of weeks or so.
Miele now have a hygiene light that comes and and forces you to do one
as they've had problems with hoses getting fouled up plus "stinky drum".

Hmm. Not had mould problems in our washing machine, despite (I think)
*never* having done a 90C wash.

Re US machines: do they typically run at 120V or 240V? If the former,
that might be one of the reasons for hot-fill. (It's hard to get more
than 13-16A through a plug+socket, and 16A at 120V takes a long time
to heat anything - same reason boiling-water taps are more popular in
the US.)