Decided to replace ageing Hotpoint washing m/c
This used hot & cold connections ...

Surprised to find that replacement (WMUD962G) only has cold fill.

Yet it has A++ Energy rating ....... surely heating water by electricity
is less economical than using that already heated and in your HW tank.

On Monday, November 4, 2013 12:45:20 PM UTC, Rick Hughes wrote:
Decided to replace ageing Hotpoint washing m/c

This used hot & cold connections ...



Surprised to find that replacement (WMUD962G) only has cold fill.



Yet it has A++ Energy rating ....... surely heating water by electricity

is less economical than using that already heated and in your HW tank.

It's been that way for some years now.

I have Economy 7 and the timer is always set for night time use.

But you're right, I would have thought it would be cheaper to heat the water by gas. Maybe it's something to do with many houses now having combi boilers and no hot water tank, that means it is easier for the WM to sort it out itself.

Road_Hog wrote:

On Monday, November 4, 2013 12:45:20 PM UTC, Rick Hughes wrote:
Decided to replace ageing Hotpoint washing m/c

Surprised to find that replacement (WMUD962G) only has cold fill.
Yet it has A++ Energy rating ....... surely heating water by electricity
is less economical than using that already heated and in your HW tank.

It's been that way for some years now.

I have Economy 7 and the timer is always set for night time use.

But you're right, I would have thought it would be cheaper to heat the water by gas. Maybe it's something to do with many houses now having combi boilers and no hot water tank, that means it is easier for the WM to sort it out itself.

It is probably that in many locations the hot water would not
have run through by the time the machine is full. This is
possibly made more likely with reduced water consumption.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK


Plant amazing Acers.

I agree but you do not find any with both any more. I suspect its far too
complicated to monitor both and do cool washes so they cop out and start
with just cold.
Brian

--
From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active
"Rick Hughes" wrote in message
...
Decided to replace ageing Hotpoint washing m/c
This used hot & cold connections ...

Surprised to find that replacement (WMUD962G) only has cold fill.

Yet it has A++ Energy rating ....... surely heating water by electricity
is less economical than using that already heated and in your HW tank.

On 04/11/2013 12:45 Rick Hughes wrote:

Decided to replace ageing Hotpoint washing m/c
This used hot & cold connections ...

Surprised to find that replacement (WMUD962G) only has cold fill.

Reputedly because the time taken to heat the water is part of the soak
time the washing cycle needs.

--
F

In article ,
F news@nowhere wrote:
On 04/11/2013 12:45 Rick Hughes wrote:

Decided to replace ageing Hotpoint washing m/c
This used hot & cold connections ...

Surprised to find that replacement (WMUD962G) only has cold fill.

Reputedly because the time taken to heat the water is part of the soak
time the washing cycle needs.

There's also an issue with dumping very hot water into delicates and
into powders/tablets, etc. designed for a low termperature wash.

Our machine does have a hot inlet but it only uses it when you select a
"boil wash" (80C IIRC) all other times it draws from the cold only.

Gordon

Rick Hughes wrote:
Decided to replace ageing Hotpoint washing m/c
This used hot & cold connections ...

Surprised to find that replacement (WMUD962G) only has cold fill.

Been like that for *ages*.


Yet it has A++ Energy rating ....... surely heating water by electricity
is less economical than using that already heated and in your HW tank.

Even assuming your water is heated by gas, how much do you have to run off
before HW reaches your washing machine? In many houses this could mean
quite a lot of wasted hot water. Machines now only heat exactly as much
water as needed. This greatly reduces wasted energy for most people.
There's also the factor that modern detergents work better when started off
cold and the heated to the required temperature.

Tim

On Monday 04 November 2013 13:18 Brian Gaff wrote in uk.d-i-y:

I agree but you do not find any with both any more. I suspect its far too
complicated to monitor both and do cool washes so they cop out and start
with just cold.
Brian



Some Meile dishwashers accept hot fill, but cold is the norm.

Also, washing machines, detergents work better with some types of
staining if the water is cold initially - eg protein based (egg, blood etc)
as hot water can cook and set the stain.



--
Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://squiddy.blog.dionic.net/

http://www.sensorly.com/ Crowd mapping of 2G/3G/4G mobile signal coverage

On Mon, 4 Nov 2013 14:48:21 +0000, Tim+ wrote:

Rick Hughes wrote:
Decided to replace ageing Hotpoint washing m/c
This used hot & cold connections ...

Surprised to find that replacement (WMUD962G) only has cold fill.

Been like that for *ages*.


Yet it has A++ Energy rating ....... surely heating water by electricity
is less economical than using that already heated and in your HW tank.

Even assuming your water is heated by gas, how much do you have to run off
before HW reaches your washing machine? In many houses this could mean
quite a lot of wasted hot water. Machines now only heat exactly as much
water as needed. This greatly reduces wasted energy for most people.
There's also the factor that modern detergents work better when started off
cold and the heated to the required temperature.

Tim

ISE makes one that has hot fill
http://www.iseappliances.co.uk/index...88eco-overview
towards the bottom of the page.
It mentions the distance to the source of hot water; also says that the pipe
should be lagged - only relevant if there's a branch near the machine or if
hot water is taken later in the process (the water is probably taken
incrementally anyway).
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway

On 04/11/2013 12:45, Rick Hughes wrote:
Decided to replace ageing Hotpoint washing m/c
This used hot & cold connections ...

Surprised to find that replacement (WMUD962G) only has cold fill.

Yet it has A++ Energy rating ....... surely heating water by electricity
is less economical than using that already heated and in your HW tank.

There are a couple of drivers for this now common configuration. The
first is the lower water usage, that quite often means a hot fill
machine will simply end up drawing all the cold water dead leg out of
the pipe and then stopping before it gets the benefit of the hot - thus
wasting the hot water. The other is the increased use of low temperature
bio detergents that need to have adequate contact time at a cool
temperature before being heated during the cycle to be at their most
effective.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 04/11/2013 14:48, Tim+ wrote:


Even assuming your water is heated by gas, how much do you have to run off
before HW reaches your washing machine? In many houses this could mean
quite a lot of wasted hot water. Machines now only heat exactly as much
water as needed. This greatly reduces wasted energy for most people.
There's also the factor that modern detergents work better when started off
cold and the heated to the required temperature.

Tim

Indeed. And even machines which *do* have hot and cold feeds tend to use
cold, and heat it internally, for all but the hottest cycles - otherwise
the incoming water may be *too* hot for delicate fabrics, etc.
--
Cheers,
Roger
____________
Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
checked.

On 04/11/2013 14:48, Tim+ wrote:

Even assuming your water is heated by gas, how much do you have to run off
before HW reaches your washing machine?

absolutely ZERO

I have a pumped HW loop off my Thermal store - so never have to run a
tap to get it hot.

On 04/11/2013 16:42, John Rumm wrote:

There are a couple of drivers for this now common configuration. The
first is the lower water usage, that quite often means a hot fill
machine will simply end up drawing all the cold water dead leg out of
the pipe and then stopping before it gets the benefit of the hot - thus
wasting the hot water.

Not relevant for me ... as previously mentioned I have pumped HW loop
.... no dead leg of water anywhere.

On 04/11/2013 13:04, Chris J Dixon wrote:
Road_Hog wrote:

On Monday, November 4, 2013 12:45:20 PM UTC, Rick Hughes wrote:
Decided to replace ageing Hotpoint washing m/c

Surprised to find that replacement (WMUD962G) only has cold fill.
Yet it has A++ Energy rating ....... surely heating water by electricity
is less economical than using that already heated and in your HW tank.

It's been that way for some years now.

I have Economy 7 and the timer is always set for night time use.

But you're right, I would have thought it would be cheaper to heat the water by gas. Maybe it's something to do with many houses now having combi boilers and no hot water tank, that means it is easier for the WM to sort it out itself.

It is probably that in many locations the hot water would not
have run through by the time the machine is full. This is
possibly made more likely with reduced water consumption.

Chris

That's very probably it. We normally usually use powder or liquid in a
ball inside the machine, but on the odd occassions that we use powder or
tablets in the soap drawer, we are left with sludge in the drawer,
unless we run the hot tap to get hot water down to the kitchen before
starting. That sludge, of course, ends up in the next rinse fill.

SteveW

Not relevant for me ... as previously mentioned I have pumped HW loop
... no dead leg of water anywhere.



You aren't typical!

--

DerbyBorn

Rick Hughes wrote:
On 04/11/2013 14:48, Tim+ wrote:

Even assuming your water is heated by gas, how much do you have to run off
before HW reaches your washing machine?

absolutely ZERO

I have a pumped HW loop off my Thermal store - so never have to run a tap to get it hot.

So you're wasting heat & power all the time anyway? ;-)

Tim

Rick Hughes wrote:

Decided to replace ageing Hotpoint washing m/c
This used hot & cold connections ...

Surprised to find that replacement (WMUD962G) only has cold fill.

Yet it has A++ Energy rating ....... surely heating water by electricity
is less economical than using that already heated and in your HW tank.

I went out of my way to get a H&C machine, but it uses such a tiny
amount of water compared to its predecessors that unless I draw off the
dead leg of cold water via the hot tap beforehand, it never gets any hot
from the tank. And even if I do that, it fills from mains cold and hot
tank concurrently, so guess which it gets most volume of?

In short, I think that better energy/water efficient machines, combined
with 30 degree detergents have made hot fill a bit redundant ...

On 04/11/2013 12:45, Rick Hughes wrote:
Decided to replace ageing Hotpoint washing m/c
This used hot & cold connections ...

Surprised to find that replacement (WMUD962G) only has cold fill.

Yet it has A++ Energy rating ....... surely heating water by electricity
is less economical than using that already heated and in your HW tank.



You rarely need to wash anything above 15C these days.

--
mailto:news{at}admac(dot}myzen{dot}co{dot}uk

"Rick Hughes" wrote in message
...
Decided to replace ageing Hotpoint washing m/c
This used hot & cold connections ...

Surprised to find that replacement (WMUD962G) only has cold fill.

Yet it has A++ Energy rating ....... surely heating water by electricity
is less economical than using that already heated and in your HW tank.


Unlikely.
By the time the cold water in the pipework is drained into the machine,
very little hot water gets there anyway.
In any event a cleaner wash results from starting off cold, hot water seals
many stains in.

Also the machine is cheaper to make.

So H+C fill has no advantages at all.

On 2013-11-04, Rick Hughes wrote:

On 04/11/2013 16:42, John Rumm wrote:

There are a couple of drivers for this now common configuration. The
first is the lower water usage, that quite often means a hot fill
machine will simply end up drawing all the cold water dead leg out of
the pipe and then stopping before it gets the benefit of the hot - thus
wasting the hot water.

Not relevant for me ... as previously mentioned I have pumped HW loop
... no dead leg of water anywhere.

That's fairly unusual (to say the least) in a house, isn't it?

Adam Funk wrote:
On 2013-11-04, Rick Hughes wrote:

On 04/11/2013 16:42, John Rumm wrote:

There are a couple of drivers for this now common configuration. The
first is the lower water usage, that quite often means a hot fill
machine will simply end up drawing all the cold water dead leg out of
the pipe and then stopping before it gets the benefit of the hot - thus
wasting the hot water.

Not relevant for me ... as previously mentioned I have pumped HW loop
... no dead leg of water anywhere.

That's fairly unusual (to say the least) in a house, isn't it?

I should say so. Great if you really need/want/can afford the convenience
and I guess in the winter, when you have heating on, heat isn't "wasted"
from the pipes as it goes to heat the house. In summer though I would
imagine it must add considerably to your HW costs.

Tim

In message , Rick Hughes
writes
Decided to replace ageing Hotpoint washing m/c
This used hot & cold connections ...

Surprised to find that replacement (WMUD962G) only has cold fill.

Yet it has A++ Energy rating ....... surely heating water by
electricity is less economical than using that already heated and in
your HW tank.

The ratings are for energy efficiency, not cost.
--
bert

On 05/11/2013 13:47, Tim+ wrote:
Adam Funk wrote:
On 2013-11-04, Rick Hughes wrote:

On 04/11/2013 16:42, John Rumm wrote:

There are a couple of drivers for this now common configuration. The
first is the lower water usage, that quite often means a hot fill
machine will simply end up drawing all the cold water dead leg out of
the pipe and then stopping before it gets the benefit of the hot - thus
wasting the hot water.

Not relevant for me ... as previously mentioned I have pumped HW loop
... no dead leg of water anywhere.

That's fairly unusual (to say the least) in a house, isn't it?

I should say so. Great if you really need/want/can afford the convenience
and I guess in the winter, when you have heating on, heat isn't "wasted"
from the pipes as it goes to heat the house. In summer though I would
imagine it must add considerably to your HW costs.

If you lag the pipe loop well, and use a timer to control pump times, it
ought not make much difference.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 04/11/2013 23:24, alan wrote:
On 04/11/2013 12:45, Rick Hughes wrote:
Decided to replace ageing Hotpoint washing m/c
This used hot & cold connections ...

Surprised to find that replacement (WMUD962G) only has cold fill.

Yet it has A++ Energy rating ....... surely heating water by electricity
is less economical than using that already heated and in your HW tank.



You rarely need to wash anything above 15C these days.

With two caveats - one the machine will need the occasional hot wash to
not fill up with detergent residue slime.

Also tests have shown that low temperature washes are not as effective
at killing bacteria - so take care with what you wash with and after
bacteria heavy items.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

John Rumm wrote:
On 05/11/2013 13:47, Tim+ wrote:
Adam Funk wrote:
On 2013-11-04, Rick Hughes wrote:

On 04/11/2013 16:42, John Rumm wrote:

There are a couple of drivers for this now common configuration. The
first is the lower water usage, that quite often means a hot fill
machine will simply end up drawing all the cold water dead leg out of
the pipe and then stopping before it gets the benefit of the hot - thus
wasting the hot water.

Not relevant for me ... as previously mentioned I have pumped HW loop
... no dead leg of water anywhere.

That's fairly unusual (to say the least) in a house, isn't it?

I should say so. Great if you really need/want/can afford the convenience
and I guess in the winter, when you have heating on, heat isn't "wasted"
from the pipes as it goes to heat the house. In summer though I would
imagine it must add considerably to your HW costs.

If you lag the pipe loop well, and use a timer to control pump times, it
ought not make much difference.



Hmm, given that it's only likely to be present in large houses with long
pipe runs, I can't help thinking that it's going to be hard to match the
insulating properties of a modern tank. Still, nice if you don't mind the
running costs.

Tim

On 06/11/2013 07:40, Tim+ wrote:
John Rumm wrote:
On 05/11/2013 13:47, Tim+ wrote:
Adam Funk wrote:
On 2013-11-04, Rick Hughes wrote:

On 04/11/2013 16:42, John Rumm wrote:

There are a couple of drivers for this now common configuration. The
first is the lower water usage, that quite often means a hot fill
machine will simply end up drawing all the cold water dead leg out of
the pipe and then stopping before it gets the benefit of the hot - thus
wasting the hot water.

Not relevant for me ... as previously mentioned I have pumped HW loop
... no dead leg of water anywhere.

That's fairly unusual (to say the least) in a house, isn't it?

I should say so. Great if you really need/want/can afford the convenience
and I guess in the winter, when you have heating on, heat isn't "wasted"
from the pipes as it goes to heat the house. In summer though I would
imagine it must add considerably to your HW costs.

If you lag the pipe loop well, and use a timer to control pump times, it
ought not make much difference.



Hmm, given that it's only likely to be present in large houses with long
pipe runs, I can't help thinking that it's going to be hard to match the
insulating properties of a modern tank. Still, nice if you don't mind the
running costs.

Decent pipe insulation can be done (but its a good deal thicker than
your normal thin grey overcoat!)

I think if I were doing it, I would trigger the pump with a short
overrun timer from PIRs in each of the bathrooms. So you only run it
when there is likely to be a demand.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 06/11/2013 00:00, John Rumm wrote:


You rarely need to wash anything above 15C these days.

With two caveats - one the machine will need the occasional hot wash to
not fill up with detergent residue slime.


Agreed. I very occasionally put some towels through on the shortest hot
wash using washing soda.
http://www.tesco.com/groceries/Produ.../?id=258133332

Also tests have shown that low temperature washes are not as effective
at killing bacteria - so take care with what you wash with and after
bacteria heavy items.


"Hot" washes are not necessarily any better. You would need close to 70C
for half an hour and I'll bet most people have been using a lot colder
washes than that for the last decade.

It's like the small print for steam cleaners. large Print: Superheated
steam (100C) will kill 99% of bacteria, Small Print: When in contact
for more than 2 minutes.

The advertisers would like you to believe that you need to add an
expensive anti-bacterial agent to your wash now that detergents are
advertised for 15C.

What's not killed in the cold wash in the machine probably will be
killed with a good drying on a washing line.


--
mailto:news{at}admac(dot}myzen{dot}co{dot}uk

On Wednesday 06 November 2013 21:32 alan wrote in uk.d-i-y:

On 06/11/2013 00:00, John Rumm wrote:


You rarely need to wash anything above 15C these days.

With two caveats - one the machine will need the occasional hot wash to
not fill up with detergent residue slime.


Agreed. I very occasionally put some towels through on the shortest hot
wash using washing soda.
http://www.tesco.com/groceries/Produ.../?id=258133332

Also tests have shown that low temperature washes are not as effective
at killing bacteria - so take care with what you wash with and after
bacteria heavy items.


"Hot" washes are not necessarily any better. You would need close to 70C
for half an hour and I'll bet most people have been using a lot colder
washes than that for the last decade.

It's like the small print for steam cleaners. large Print: Superheated
steam (100C) will kill 99% of bacteria, Small Print: When in contact
for more than 2 minutes.

The advertisers would like you to believe that you need to add an
expensive anti-bacterial agent to your wash now that detergents are
advertised for 15C.

What's not killed in the cold wash in the machine probably will be
killed with a good drying on a washing line.



I stick towells/overn gloves/bathmats through on a "boil" wash which keeps
the machine's innards from getting stinky.
--
Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://squiddy.blog.dionic.net/

http://www.sensorly.com/ Crowd mapping of 2G/3G/4G mobile signal coverage

In message , John
Rumm writes
On 06/11/2013 07:40, Tim+ wrote:
John Rumm wrote:
On 05/11/2013 13:47, Tim+ wrote:
Adam Funk wrote:
On 2013-11-04, Rick Hughes wrote:

On 04/11/2013 16:42, John Rumm wrote:

There are a couple of drivers for this now common configuration. The
first is the lower water usage, that quite often means a hot fill
machine will simply end up drawing all the cold water dead leg out of
the pipe and then stopping before it gets the benefit of the hot - thus
wasting the hot water.

Not relevant for me ... as previously mentioned I have pumped HW loop
... no dead leg of water anywhere.

That's fairly unusual (to say the least) in a house, isn't it?

I should say so. Great if you really need/want/can afford the convenience
and I guess in the winter, when you have heating on, heat isn't "wasted"
from the pipes as it goes to heat the house. In summer though I would
imagine it must add considerably to your HW costs.

If you lag the pipe loop well, and use a timer to control pump times, it
ought not make much difference.



Hmm, given that it's only likely to be present in large houses with long
pipe runs, I can't help thinking that it's going to be hard to match the
insulating properties of a modern tank. Still, nice if you don't mind the
running costs.

Decent pipe insulation can be done (but its a good deal thicker than
your normal thin grey overcoat!)

I think if I were doing it, I would trigger the pump with a short
overrun timer from PIRs in each of the bathrooms. So you only run it
when there is likely to be a demand.

And remember, Rick's house is a self build, so it would have been easier
to install with plenty of think pipe insulation than retrofitting, and
also to plan the boiler, tank location etc. with it in mind

--
Chris French

On 2013-11-06, alan wrote:

On 06/11/2013 00:00, John Rumm wrote:

You rarely need to wash anything above 15C these days.

With two caveats - one the machine will need the occasional hot wash to
not fill up with detergent residue slime.

Agreed. I very occasionally put some towels through on the shortest hot
wash using washing soda.
http://www.tesco.com/groceries/Produ.../?id=258133332

I use washing soda (in addition to detergent) for shower curtains &
bath mats --- it's pretty good at removing mildew.


Also tests have shown that low temperature washes are not as effective
at killing bacteria - so take care with what you wash with and after
bacteria heavy items.


"Hot" washes are not necessarily any better. You would need close to 70C
for half an hour and I'll bet most people have been using a lot colder
washes than that for the last decade.

It's like the small print for steam cleaners. large Print: Superheated
steam (100C) will kill 99% of bacteria, Small Print: When in contact
for more than 2 minutes.

The advertisers would like you to believe that you need to add an
expensive anti-bacterial agent to your wash now that detergents are
advertised for 15C.

There was an article in _Which?_ in the past few months about 60°
washes. Most washing machines don't actually reach 60°; only one
holds it there for long; but some experts think that modern detergents
& washing machines can remove bedbugs & germs effectively (down the
drain) without killing them.


What's not killed in the cold wash in the machine probably will be
killed with a good drying on a washing line.

Absolutely. I keep our toothbrushes in the bathroom window for the
same reason (sunlight can sanitize things).

On 2013-11-04, Tim+ wrote:

Rick Hughes wrote:
Decided to replace ageing Hotpoint washing m/c
This used hot & cold connections ...

Surprised to find that replacement (WMUD962G) only has cold fill.

Been like that for *ages*.


Yet it has A++ Energy rating ....... surely heating water by electricity
is less economical than using that already heated and in your HW tank.

Even assuming your water is heated by gas, how much do you have to run off
before HW reaches your washing machine? In many houses this could mean
quite a lot of wasted hot water. Machines now only heat exactly as much
water as needed. This greatly reduces wasted energy for most people.

I have to run almost 1 L of water out of the kitchen tap to get the
hot stuff, so based on the pipe runs, I'd expect the first 1.5 L of
"hot water" into the washing machine to be cold. But I was surprised
to see in the manual that the washing programmes use 52 to 65 litres
of water; I don't know how, however, how that's split between the wash
& the rinses.


There's also the factor that modern detergents work better when started off
cold and the heated to the required temperature.

That's what I've heard.

alan wrote:
You rarely need to wash anything above 15C these days.

15C? That's *COLD* water. Where on earth does the energy come
from to remove the dirt?

jgh

wrote:
alan wrote:
You rarely need to wash anything above 15C these days.

15C? That's *COLD* water. Where on earth does the energy come
from to remove the dirt?

I'm pretty sure most washing machines have a motor in them...

Tim

On Tuesday, November 19, 2013 12:02:22 AM UTC+13, Adam Funk wrote:

There was an article in _Which?_ in the past few months about 60°
washes. Most washing machines don't actually reach 60°; only one
holds it there for long; but some experts think that modern detergents
& washing machines can remove bedbugs & germs effectively (down the
drain) without killing them.

I have a Champion washer/dryer. The drying cycle gets very hot!

On Mon, 04 Nov 2013 12:52:21 -0000, Road_Hog wrote:

On Monday, November 4, 2013 12:45:20 PM UTC, Rick Hughes wrote:
Decided to replace ageing Hotpoint washing m/c

This used hot & cold connections ...



Surprised to find that replacement (WMUD962G) only has cold fill.



Yet it has A++ Energy rating ....... surely heating water by electricity

is less economical than using that already heated and in your HW tank.

It's been that way for some years now.

I have Economy 7 and the timer is always set for night time use.

But you're right, I would have thought it would be cheaper to heat the water by gas. Maybe it's something to do with many houses now having combi boilers and no hot water tank, that means it is easier for the WM to sort it out itself.

Why? A combi boiler will produce cheap hot water when the machine demands it.

Doesn't affect me as I use cold wash.

--
"His idea of safe sex is an `X' spray-painted on the rump of animals that are known to kick."

On Mon, 04 Nov 2013 13:25:22 -0000, F news@nowhere wrote:

On 04/11/2013 12:45 Rick Hughes wrote:

Decided to replace ageing Hotpoint washing m/c
This used hot & cold connections ...

Surprised to find that replacement (WMUD962G) only has cold fill.

Reputedly because the time taken to heat the water is part of the soak
time the washing cycle needs.

Gas kWh = 6p Electricity kWh = 14p. Heating water with electricity = stupid.

--
If you jog in a jogging suit, lounge in lounging pajamas, and smoke in a smoking jacket, why would anyone want to wear a windbreaker?

On Mon, 04 Nov 2013 23:15:15 -0000, Andy Burns wrote:

Rick Hughes wrote:

Decided to replace ageing Hotpoint washing m/c
This used hot & cold connections ...

Surprised to find that replacement (WMUD962G) only has cold fill.

Yet it has A++ Energy rating ....... surely heating water by electricity
is less economical than using that already heated and in your HW tank.

I went out of my way to get a H&C machine, but it uses such a tiny
amount of water compared to its predecessors that unless I draw off the
dead leg of cold water via the hot tap beforehand, it never gets any hot
from the tank. And even if I do that, it fills from mains cold and hot
tank concurrently, so guess which it gets most volume of?

In short, I think that better energy/water efficient machines, combined
with 30 degree detergents have made hot fill a bit redundant ...

I used to have an H/C one but it only used the hot it you turned the dial above 40C for some reason.

--
Did you know that dolphins are so intelligent that within only a few weeks of captivity, they can train humans to stand at the edge of the pool and throw them fish?

On Wed, 06 Nov 2013 00:00:36 -0000, John Rumm wrote:

On 04/11/2013 23:24, alan wrote:
On 04/11/2013 12:45, Rick Hughes wrote:
Decided to replace ageing Hotpoint washing m/c
This used hot & cold connections ...

Surprised to find that replacement (WMUD962G) only has cold fill.

Yet it has A++ Energy rating ....... surely heating water by electricity
is less economical than using that already heated and in your HW tank.



You rarely need to wash anything above 15C these days.

With two caveats - one the machine will need the occasional hot wash to
not fill up with detergent residue slime.

Doesn't happen here.

Also tests have shown that low temperature washes are not as effective
at killing bacteria - so take care with what you wash with and after
bacteria heavy items.

Bacteria is on dishes, not clothes.

--
Anybody who claims that marriage is a fifty-fifty proposition doesn't know a damned thing about women or fractions.

On Mon, 18 Nov 2013 14:25:35 -0000, Matty F wrote:

On Tuesday, November 19, 2013 12:02:22 AM UTC+13, Adam Funk wrote:

There was an article in _Which?_ in the past few months about 60°
washes. Most washing machines don't actually reach 60°; only one
holds it there for long; but some experts think that modern detergents
& washing machines can remove bedbugs & germs effectively (down the
drain) without killing them.

I have a Champion washer/dryer. The drying cycle gets very hot!

I melted the sole of a running shoe doing that once.

--
Why do blondes have more fun?
They are easier to keep amused.

On Tue, 05 Nov 2013 06:57:46 -0000, harryagain wrote:


"Rick Hughes" wrote in message
...
Decided to replace ageing Hotpoint washing m/c
This used hot & cold connections ...

Surprised to find that replacement (WMUD962G) only has cold fill.

Yet it has A++ Energy rating ....... surely heating water by electricity
is less economical than using that already heated and in your HW tank.


Unlikely.
By the time the cold water in the pipework is drained into the machine,
very little hot water gets there anyway.
In any event a cleaner wash results from starting off cold, hot water seals
many stains in.

Also the machine is cheaper to make.

So H+C fill has no advantages at all.

Funny, if I turn on the hot tap in my sink, I feel warm water in a few seconds, and the tank is in the next room.

--
The wife had a birthday and her husband wanted to know what she desired. She said she'd like to have a Jaguar.
He didn't think it was best for her.
But, she begged and begged until he gave in and got her one.
It ate her.