On Tue, 05 Nov 2013 23:08:32 -0000, bert ] wrote:

In message , Rick Hughes
writes
Decided to replace ageing Hotpoint washing m/c
This used hot & cold connections ...

Surprised to find that replacement (WMUD962G) only has cold fill.

Yet it has A++ Energy rating ....... surely heating water by
electricity is less economical than using that already heated and in
your HW tank.

The ratings are for energy efficiency, not cost.

Ie. a blatant lie.

--
After three years of marriage, Kim was still questioning her husband about his lurid past.
"C'mon, tell me," she asked for the thousandth time, "How many women have you slept with?"
"Baby, " he protested, "if I told you, you'd throw a fit." Kim promised she wouldn't get angry, and convinced her hubby to tell her.
"Okay," he said, then started to count on his fingers "One, two, three, four, five, six, seven - then there's you - nine, ten, eleven, twelve, thirteen . . . "

In article ,
Gefreiter Krueger wrote:
On Mon, 04 Nov 2013 13:25:22 -0000, F news@nowhere wrote:

On 04/11/2013 12:45 Rick Hughes wrote:

Decided to replace ageing Hotpoint washing m/c
This used hot & cold connections ...

Surprised to find that replacement (WMUD962G) only has cold fill.

Reputedly because the time taken to heat the water is part of the soak
time the washing cycle needs.

Gas kWh = 6p Electricity kWh = 14p. Heating water with electricity =
stupid.

but you are only heating the volume that you need and only to the
required temperature.

--
From KT24

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.18

On Mon, 18 Nov 2013 16:26:01 -0000, charles wrote:

In article ,
Gefreiter Krueger wrote:
On Mon, 04 Nov 2013 13:25:22 -0000, F news@nowhere wrote:

On 04/11/2013 12:45 Rick Hughes wrote:

Decided to replace ageing Hotpoint washing m/c
This used hot & cold connections ...

Surprised to find that replacement (WMUD962G) only has cold fill.

Reputedly because the time taken to heat the water is part of the soak
time the washing cycle needs.

Gas kWh = 6p Electricity kWh = 14p. Heating water with electricity =
stupid.

but you are only heating the volume that you need and only to the
required temperature.

The gas heated water is only heated the amount your require, as long as you have a combi boiler, or have a well insulated tank. Even if it isn't, it warms the house.

As for "required temperature", the washing machine should mix the cold and hot to get the right temperature.

--
Peter is listening to "Fredzefred - All da Motha ****as"

In article , Gefreiter Krueger
wrote:
On Mon, 18 Nov 2013 16:26:01 -0000, charles
wrote:

In article , Gefreiter Krueger
wrote:
On Mon, 04 Nov 2013 13:25:22 -0000, F news@nowhere wrote:

On 04/11/2013 12:45 Rick Hughes wrote:

Decided to replace ageing Hotpoint washing m/c This used hot & cold
connections ...

Surprised to find that replacement (WMUD962G) only has cold fill.

Reputedly because the time taken to heat the water is part of the
soak time the washing cycle needs.

Gas kWh = 6p Electricity kWh = 14p. Heating water with electricity =
stupid.

but you are only heating the volume that you need and only to the
required temperature.

The gas heated water is only heated the amount your require, as long as
you have a combi boiler, or have a well insulated tank. Even if it
isn't, it warms the house.

what about the cooled water in the pipes between the boiler and the tank?
I reckon these enough present in my house to fill the machine.

As for "required temperature", the washing machine should mix the cold
and hot to get the right temperature.

yes, but if you've heated "too hot" and have to add cold, then you've
wasted energy.

--
From KT24

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.18

On Mon, 18 Nov 2013 16:47:09 -0000, charles wrote:

In article , Gefreiter Krueger
wrote:
On Mon, 18 Nov 2013 16:26:01 -0000, charles
wrote:

In article , Gefreiter Krueger
wrote:
On Mon, 04 Nov 2013 13:25:22 -0000, F news@nowhere wrote:

On 04/11/2013 12:45 Rick Hughes wrote:

Decided to replace ageing Hotpoint washing m/c This used hot & cold
connections ...

Surprised to find that replacement (WMUD962G) only has cold fill.

Reputedly because the time taken to heat the water is part of the
soak time the washing cycle needs.

Gas kWh = 6p Electricity kWh = 14p. Heating water with electricity =
stupid.

but you are only heating the volume that you need and only to the
required temperature.

The gas heated water is only heated the amount your require, as long as
you have a combi boiler, or have a well insulated tank. Even if it
isn't, it warms the house.

what about the cooled water in the pipes between the boiler and the tank?
I reckon these enough present in my house to fill the machine.

Are you one of those people who tries to save a penny here and there?

As for "required temperature", the washing machine should mix the cold
and hot to get the right temperature.

yes, but if you've heated "too hot" and have to add cold, then you've
wasted energy.

No. The hot water will be used for something else, it waits in the tank until it's used. And in winter any heat that escapes simply heats the house.

--
Maybe . . .
Flying saucers are real and the Air Force doesn't exist.

In message , Gefreiter Krueger
writes
On Mon, 04 Nov 2013 13:25:22 -0000, F news@nowhere wrote:

On 04/11/2013 12:45 Rick Hughes wrote:

Decided to replace ageing Hotpoint washing m/c
This used hot & cold connections ...

Surprised to find that replacement (WMUD962G) only has cold fill.

Reputedly because the time taken to heat the water is part of the soak
time the washing cycle needs.

Gas kWh = 6p Electricity kWh = 14p. Heating water with electricity = stupid.

But is gas more energy efficient?
--
bert

In message , Gefreiter Krueger
writes
On Tue, 05 Nov 2013 23:08:32 -0000, bert ] wrote:

In message , Rick Hughes
writes
Decided to replace ageing Hotpoint washing m/c
This used hot & cold connections ...

Surprised to find that replacement (WMUD962G) only has cold fill.

Yet it has A++ Energy rating ....... surely heating water by
electricity is less economical than using that already heated and in
your HW tank.

The ratings are for energy efficiency, not cost.

Ie. a blatant lie.

Lie - no. Misleading? - maybe.
--
bert

bert wrote:

Gas kWh = 6p Electricity kWh = 14p. Heating water with electricity =
stupid.

But is gas more energy efficient?

Well, according to the guy that tested it in August, the last combi
boiler I used was over 80% efficient, so even allowing for the losses,
heating water with it isn't far off half the cost of using electricity
in the machine.

The only problem with a lot of modern machines is that they use so
little water that by the time the hot water from the combi heater or hot
water tank has worked its way through the pipework, the machine's full,
so the only water that gets into it is the cold standing water contained
in the pipe.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

On Wed, 20 Nov 2013 14:30:21 -0000, bert ] wrote:

In message , Gefreiter Krueger
writes
On Tue, 05 Nov 2013 23:08:32 -0000, bert ] wrote:

In message , Rick Hughes
writes
Decided to replace ageing Hotpoint washing m/c
This used hot & cold connections ...

Surprised to find that replacement (WMUD962G) only has cold fill.

Yet it has A++ Energy rating ....... surely heating water by
electricity is less economical than using that already heated and in
your HW tank.

The ratings are for energy efficiency, not cost.

Ie. a blatant lie.

Lie - no. Misleading? - maybe.

The whole point of the energy rating is to tell you how much it will cost to run.

--
The reason people sweat is so that they won't catch fire when having sex.

On Wed, 20 Nov 2013 14:28:26 -0000, bert ] wrote:

In message , Gefreiter Krueger
writes
On Mon, 04 Nov 2013 13:25:22 -0000, F news@nowhere wrote:

On 04/11/2013 12:45 Rick Hughes wrote:

Decided to replace ageing Hotpoint washing m/c
This used hot & cold connections ...

Surprised to find that replacement (WMUD962G) only has cold fill.

Reputedly because the time taken to heat the water is part of the soak
time the washing cycle needs.

Gas kWh = 6p Electricity kWh = 14p. Heating water with electricity = stupid.

But is gas more energy efficient?

A decent has boiler is about 90%? Electricity is 100%.

--
The "new labour" government has just announced that they are changing their party emblem from a red rose to a condom, as they believe it most accurately represents the governments political stance.
A condom stands up to inflation, halts production, destroys the next generation, protects a bunch of pricks and gives you a false sense of security when you're actually being screwed.

On 04/11/2013 12:45, Rick Hughes wrote:
Decided to replace ageing Hotpoint washing m/c
This used hot & cold connections ...

Surprised to find that replacement (WMUD962G) only has cold fill.

Yet it has A++ Energy rating ....... surely heating water by electricity
is less economical than using that already heated and in your HW tank.

That may or may not be true...

Even if the tanked water is "cheaper", it does depend on being able to
get it to the machine effectively, and too much dead leg will prevent that.

If you want the WM to avoid dousing the dirty clothes with hot water
(and thence setting all the protein stains), you would have to be
prepared to pay extra for a machine with more elaborate water mixing and
temperature sensing capabilities, and also be prepared to deal with the
problems of ensuring there can be no backflow to the mains cold water
from the non wholesome heated water etc.

All in all you can see why most makers have dropped the idea of hot feed
from modern low water usage machines.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Wed, 20 Nov 2013 14:28:26 +0000, bert wrote:

In message , Gefreiter Krueger
writes
On Mon, 04 Nov 2013 13:25:22 -0000, F news@nowhere wrote:

On 04/11/2013 12:45 Rick Hughes wrote:

Decided to replace ageing Hotpoint washing m/c This used hot & cold
connections ...

Surprised to find that replacement (WMUD962G) only has cold fill.

Reputedly because the time taken to heat the water is part of the soak
time the washing cycle needs.

Gas kWh = 6p Electricity kWh = 14p. Heating water with electricity =
stupid.

But is gas more energy efficient?

And in any case, how much are we talking about? How many kWh does it take
to heat the small amount of water in a WM? We are talking fractions of
pence, probably.

Gerfreiter Krueger = stupid ...

--
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
My posts (including this one) are my copyright and if @diy_forums on
Twitter wish to tweet them they can pay me £30 a post
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

On Wed, 20 Nov 2013 16:14:40 -0000, Bob Eager wrote:

On Wed, 20 Nov 2013 14:28:26 +0000, bert wrote:

In message , Gefreiter Krueger
writes
On Mon, 04 Nov 2013 13:25:22 -0000, F news@nowhere wrote:

On 04/11/2013 12:45 Rick Hughes wrote:

Decided to replace ageing Hotpoint washing m/c This used hot & cold
connections ...

Surprised to find that replacement (WMUD962G) only has cold fill.

Reputedly because the time taken to heat the water is part of the soak
time the washing cycle needs.

Gas kWh = 6p Electricity kWh = 14p. Heating water with electricity =
stupid.

But is gas more energy efficient?

And in any case, how much are we talking about? How many kWh does it take
to heat the small amount of water in a WM? We are talking fractions of
pence, probably.

Gerfreiter Krueger = stupid ...

If you think that's stupid then why do you buy energy efficient machines?

On 2013-11-20, John Rumm wrote:

If you want the WM to avoid dousing the dirty clothes with hot water
(and thence setting all the protein stains), you would have to be
prepared to pay extra for a machine with more elaborate water mixing and
temperature sensing capabilities, and also be prepared to deal with the
problems of ensuring there can be no backflow to the mains cold water
from the non wholesome heated water etc.

All in all you can see why most makers have dropped the idea of hot feed
from modern low water usage machines.

What constitutes "low usage"? I got a new fancy AEG washer-dryer last
summer & was surprised to see in the manual that the washing
programmes use 52 to 65 litres of water (I don't know how much of that
is in the presumably cold rinses). How much did old, less efficient
machines use?!?

On 2013-11-20, Bob Eager wrote:

On Wed, 20 Nov 2013 14:28:26 +0000, bert wrote:
In message , Gefreiter Krueger
writes

Gas kWh = 6p Electricity kWh = 14p. Heating water with electricity =
stupid.

Economy 7 electricity is usually about half the daytime price.


But is gas more energy efficient?

And in any case, how much are we talking about? How many kWh does it take
to heat the small amount of water in a WM? We are talking fractions of
pence, probably.

It varies quite a bit with the wash temperature. I used a
plug-through energy meter to record some data for mine, & got these
averages:

cottons 30 = 0.67 kWh
cottons 40 = 0.80
cottons 60 = 1.42

On Wed, 20 Nov 2013 17:08:14 -0000, Adam Funk wrote:

On 2013-11-20, Bob Eager wrote:

On Wed, 20 Nov 2013 14:28:26 +0000, bert wrote:
In message , Gefreiter Krueger
writes

Gas kWh = 6p Electricity kWh = 14p. Heating water with electricity =
stupid.

Economy 7 electricity is usually about half the daytime price.

I didn't know that still existed. I've got Eco 20/20 from EDF which is the best I've seen. It's a few pence cheaper in evenings and weekends. I assumed they'd got round the problem of uneven power requirements nowadays.

--
Seen in the back window of a car:
In case of emergency screw driver on back seat.

In message , Gefreiter Krueger
writes
On Wed, 20 Nov 2013 14:30:21 -0000, bert ] wrote:

In message , Gefreiter Krueger
writes
On Tue, 05 Nov 2013 23:08:32 -0000, bert ] wrote:

In message , Rick Hughes
writes
Decided to replace ageing Hotpoint washing m/c
This used hot & cold connections ...

Surprised to find that replacement (WMUD962G) only has cold fill.

Yet it has A++ Energy rating ....... surely heating water by
electricity is less economical than using that already heated and in
your HW tank.

The ratings are for energy efficiency, not cost.

Ie. a blatant lie.

Lie - no. Misleading? - maybe.

The whole point of the energy rating is to tell you how much it will
cost to run.

Don't think so . It's to enable you to compare the energy efficiency
with other machines and by implication the relative cost of running
them.
--
bert

On Wed, 20 Nov 2013 19:07:58 -0000, bert ] wrote:

In message , Gefreiter Krueger
writes
On Wed, 20 Nov 2013 14:30:21 -0000, bert ] wrote:

In message , Gefreiter Krueger
writes
On Tue, 05 Nov 2013 23:08:32 -0000, bert ] wrote:

In message , Rick Hughes
writes

The ratings are for energy efficiency, not cost.

Ie. a blatant lie.

Lie - no. Misleading? - maybe.

The whole point of the energy rating is to tell you how much it will
cost to run.

Don't think so . It's to enable you to compare the energy efficiency
with other machines and by implication the relative cost of running
them.

Which is incorrect if one is H/C fill.

--
Customer explaining flooded car to insurance claim investigator:
"It didn't look that deep at first glance - it only came half way up the ducks."

On 2013-11-20, Gefreiter Krueger wrote:

On Wed, 20 Nov 2013 17:08:14 -0000, Adam Funk wrote:

On 2013-11-20, Bob Eager wrote:

On Wed, 20 Nov 2013 14:28:26 +0000, bert wrote:
In message , Gefreiter Krueger
writes

Gas kWh = 6p Electricity kWh = 14p. Heating water with electricity =
stupid.

Economy 7 electricity is usually about half the daytime price.

I didn't know that still existed. I've got Eco 20/20 from EDF which
is the best I've seen. It's a few pence cheaper in evenings and
weekends. I assumed they'd got round the problem of uneven power
requirements nowadays.

The energy companies don't seem to promote E7 much these days, but I
think that the last time I checked all the main ones offered it.

On Wed, 20 Nov 2013 20:18:58 -0000, Adam Funk wrote:

On 2013-11-20, Gefreiter Krueger wrote:

On Wed, 20 Nov 2013 17:08:14 -0000, Adam Funk wrote:

On 2013-11-20, Bob Eager wrote:

On Wed, 20 Nov 2013 14:28:26 +0000, bert wrote:
In message , Gefreiter Krueger
writes



Economy 7 electricity is usually about half the daytime price.

I didn't know that still existed. I've got Eco 20/20 from EDF which
is the best I've seen. It's a few pence cheaper in evenings and
weekends. I assumed they'd got round the problem of uneven power
requirements nowadays.

The energy companies don't seem to promote E7 much these days, but I
think that the last time I checked all the main ones offered it.

I probably thought it was a waste of money. Storage heaters are the most uncontrollable pieces of **** I've ever sen, and it's not worth it for other electric uses.

--
A sign at the golf course detailing the dress code:
Guys: No Shirts, No Golf
Girls: No Shirts, No Green Fees

On Wed, 20 Nov 2013 17:04:43 +0000, Adam Funk wrote:

On 2013-11-20, John Rumm wrote:

If you want the WM to avoid dousing the dirty clothes with hot water
(and thence setting all the protein stains), you would have to be
prepared to pay extra for a machine with more elaborate water mixing and
temperature sensing capabilities, and also be prepared to deal with the
problems of ensuring there can be no backflow to the mains cold water
from the non wholesome heated water etc.

All in all you can see why most makers have dropped the idea of hot feed
from modern low water usage machines.

What constitutes "low usage"? I got a new fancy AEG washer-dryer last
summer & was surprised to see in the manual that the washing
programmes use 52 to 65 litres of water (I don't know how much of that
is in the presumably cold rinses). How much did old, less efficient
machines use?!?

My mid-range AEG is about 13 yo and uses, according to the booklet, 50
litres on a standard cotton wash for 5kg. When I got it to replace an
ancient AEG auto, the water consumption for the house dropped by about 100
litres per week on 2 washes!
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway

Gefreiter Krueger wrote:

I probably thought it was a waste of money. Storage heaters are the most uncontrollable pieces of **** I've ever sen, and it's not worth it for other electric uses.

If you do the calculations, which may well vary amongst the
plethora of tariffs, benefit can easily be achieved on E7 without
storage heaters. It certainly works for me.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK


Plant amazing Acers.

On Thu, 21 Nov 2013 07:14:19 -0000, Chris J Dixon wrote:

Gefreiter Krueger wrote:

I probably thought it was a waste of money. Storage heaters are the most uncontrollable pieces of **** I've ever sen, and it's not worth it for other electric uses.

If you do the calculations, which may well vary amongst the
plethora of tariffs, benefit can easily be achieved on E7 without
storage heaters. It certainly works for me.

I don't wish to readjust my life to night-time. I would say most of my electricity is my fridge (I can't leave that off all day), my computer, which has to be on when I'm awake not asleep, and my lights (which are pointless being on when I'm in bed).

--
TV takes over your life when you could be doing useful things like smoking crack and stealing car stereos.

On 2013-11-21, Chris J Dixon wrote:

Gefreiter Krueger wrote:

I probably thought it was a waste of money. Storage heaters are the
most uncontrollable pieces of **** I've ever sen, and it's not
worth it for other electric uses.

If you do the calculations, which may well vary amongst the
plethora of tariffs, benefit can easily be achieved on E7 without
storage heaters. It certainly works for me.

We use about 40% of our electricity at night without storage heaters
(which I don't like either):

* fridge & freezer are running occasionally all the time anyway,
although less at night when no-one opens the doors;

* washer-dryer overnight;

* 1 full-blast dishwasher run every night (but often 1 during the day
too, on the quick or eco programme);

* cellar dehumidifier running occasionally all the time (I can't get
it to work properly on a timer).

On 2013-11-20, PeterC wrote:

On Wed, 20 Nov 2013 17:04:43 +0000, Adam Funk wrote:

On 2013-11-20, John Rumm wrote:

If you want the WM to avoid dousing the dirty clothes with hot water
(and thence setting all the protein stains), you would have to be
prepared to pay extra for a machine with more elaborate water mixing and
temperature sensing capabilities, and also be prepared to deal with the
problems of ensuring there can be no backflow to the mains cold water
from the non wholesome heated water etc.

All in all you can see why most makers have dropped the idea of hot feed
from modern low water usage machines.

What constitutes "low usage"? I got a new fancy AEG washer-dryer last
summer & was surprised to see in the manual that the washing
programmes use 52 to 65 litres of water (I don't know how much of that
is in the presumably cold rinses). How much did old, less efficient
machines use?!?

My mid-range AEG is about 13 yo and uses, according to the booklet, 50
litres on a standard cotton wash for 5kg. When I got it to replace an
ancient AEG auto, the water consumption for the house dropped by about 100
litres per week on 2 washes!

Wow!

On Thu, 21 Nov 2013 12:00:12 -0000, Adam Funk wrote:

On 2013-11-21, Chris J Dixon wrote:

Gefreiter Krueger wrote:

I probably thought it was a waste of money. Storage heaters are the
most uncontrollable pieces of **** I've ever sen, and it's not
worth it for other electric uses.

If you do the calculations, which may well vary amongst the
plethora of tariffs, benefit can easily be achieved on E7 without
storage heaters. It certainly works for me.

We use about 40% of our electricity at night without storage heaters
(which I don't like either):

* fridge & freezer are running occasionally all the time anyway,
although less at night when no-one opens the doors;

* washer-dryer overnight;

* 1 full-blast dishwasher run every night (but often 1 during the day
too, on the quick or eco programme);

* cellar dehumidifier running occasionally all the time (I can't get
it to work properly on a timer).

So the only things there that use more at night are the dishwasher, and the washer dryer.

I prefer to hand my washing up, it's free!

--
Paddy takes his new wife to bed on their wedding night.
She undresses, lies on the bed spread-eagled and says
"You know what I want, don't you?"
"Yeah," says Paddy. "The whole flipping bed by the looks of it!"

On Thu, 21 Nov 2013 12:00:41 +0000, Adam Funk wrote:

On 2013-11-20, PeterC wrote:

On Wed, 20 Nov 2013 17:04:43 +0000, Adam Funk wrote:

On 2013-11-20, John Rumm wrote:

If you want the WM to avoid dousing the dirty clothes with hot water
(and thence setting all the protein stains), you would have to be
prepared to pay extra for a machine with more elaborate water mixing and
temperature sensing capabilities, and also be prepared to deal with the
problems of ensuring there can be no backflow to the mains cold water
from the non wholesome heated water etc.

All in all you can see why most makers have dropped the idea of hot feed
from modern low water usage machines.

What constitutes "low usage"? I got a new fancy AEG washer-dryer last
summer & was surprised to see in the manual that the washing
programmes use 52 to 65 litres of water (I don't know how much of that
is in the presumably cold rinses). How much did old, less efficient
machines use?!?

My mid-range AEG is about 13 yo and uses, according to the booklet, 50
litres on a standard cotton wash for 5kg. When I got it to replace an
ancient AEG auto, the water consumption for the house dropped by about 100
litres per week on 2 washes!

Wow!

Indeed.
The modern machines haven't, of course, reduced the useage linearly. My AEG
is 10 li/kg; modern 7 - 8kg ones are around 7 - 8 li/kg. The washing time
has also gone from a nominal 2h to 3h for the bigger ones.
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway

In message , Gefreiter Krueger
writes
On Wed, 20 Nov 2013 19:07:58 -0000, bert ] wrote:

In message , Gefreiter Krueger
writes
On Wed, 20 Nov 2013 14:30:21 -0000, bert ] wrote:

In message , Gefreiter Krueger
writes
On Tue, 05 Nov 2013 23:08:32 -0000, bert ] wrote:

In message , Rick Hughes
writes

The ratings are for energy efficiency, not cost.

Ie. a blatant lie.

Lie - no. Misleading? - maybe.

The whole point of the energy rating is to tell you how much it will
cost to run.

Don't think so . It's to enable you to compare the energy efficiency
with other machines and by implication the relative cost of running
them.

Which is incorrect if one is H/C fill.

Maybe that's factored in for a h/c fill. Generally they only fill hot on
the first fill and then only if the wash is over 60C. But not knowing
exactly how energy efficiency is measured I couldn't comment further.
--
bert

On Thu, 21 Nov 2013 20:15:43 -0000, bert ] wrote:

In message , Gefreiter Krueger
writes
On Wed, 20 Nov 2013 19:07:58 -0000, bert ] wrote:

In message , Gefreiter Krueger
writes
On Wed, 20 Nov 2013 14:30:21 -0000, bert ] wrote:

In message , Gefreiter Krueger
writes



Lie - no. Misleading? - maybe.

The whole point of the energy rating is to tell you how much it will
cost to run.

Don't think so . It's to enable you to compare the energy efficiency
with other machines and by implication the relative cost of running
them.

Which is incorrect if one is H/C fill.

Maybe that's factored in for a h/c fill. Generally they only fill hot on
the first fill and then only if the wash is over 60C. But not knowing
exactly how energy efficiency is measured I couldn't comment further.

I do remember one being that stupid. Even if it's not bright enough to adjust the mixture, running cold and hot at their full pressures wouldn't exceed 40C, so it should have used it for that too.

--
What's the best form of birth control after 50?
Nudity.

On 2013-11-21, Gefreiter Krueger wrote:

On Thu, 21 Nov 2013 12:00:12 -0000, Adam Funk wrote:

On 2013-11-21, Chris J Dixon wrote:

If you do the calculations, which may well vary amongst the
plethora of tariffs, benefit can easily be achieved on E7 without
storage heaters. It certainly works for me.

We use about 40% of our electricity at night without storage heaters
(which I don't like either):

* fridge & freezer are running occasionally all the time anyway,
although less at night when no-one opens the doors;

* washer-dryer overnight;

* 1 full-blast dishwasher run every night (but often 1 during the day
too, on the quick or eco programme);

* cellar dehumidifier running occasionally all the time (I can't get
it to work properly on a timer).

So the only things there that use more at night are the dishwasher, and the washer dryer.

I mentioned the other things because they are running intermittently
all the time, even when you're not "using" them.


I prefer to hand my washing up, it's free!

It's not free unless you have unmetered water & you're washing them in
cold!

Full loads in a modern dishwasher are more efficient (in terms of
water & energy) than hand-washing. Dishwashers are also more
hygienic.

On 2013-11-21, PeterC wrote:

On Thu, 21 Nov 2013 12:00:41 +0000, Adam Funk wrote:

On 2013-11-20, PeterC wrote:

On Wed, 20 Nov 2013 17:04:43 +0000, Adam Funk wrote:

What constitutes "low usage"? I got a new fancy AEG washer-dryer last
summer & was surprised to see in the manual that the washing
programmes use 52 to 65 litres of water (I don't know how much of that
is in the presumably cold rinses). How much did old, less efficient
machines use?!?

My mid-range AEG is about 13 yo and uses, according to the booklet, 50
litres on a standard cotton wash for 5kg. When I got it to replace an
ancient AEG auto, the water consumption for the house dropped by about 100
litres per week on 2 washes!

Wow!

Indeed.
The modern machines haven't, of course, reduced the useage linearly. My AEG
is 10 li/kg; modern 7 - 8kg ones are around 7 - 8 li/kg. The washing time
has also gone from a nominal 2h to 3h for the bigger ones.

The main programmes on mine are 2:10 to 2:25. There are some shorter
ones, and even a 20 minute one (which actually works for not very
dirty stuff).

(I checked the dishwasher manual for comparison; it uses 6 to 15
litres/load.)

On Fri, 22 Nov 2013 11:34:12 +0000, Adam Funk wrote:

The modern machines haven't, of course, reduced the useage linearly. My AEG
is 10 li/kg; modern 7 - 8kg ones are around 7 - 8 li/kg. The washing time
has also gone from a nominal 2h to 3h for the bigger ones.

The main programmes on mine are 2:10 to 2:25. There are some shorter
ones, and even a 20 minute one (which actually works for not very
dirty stuff).

What weight does that take and what's the make & model, please?
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway

On Fri, 22 Nov 2013 16:05:29 +0000, PeterC wrote:

On Fri, 22 Nov 2013 11:34:12 +0000, Adam Funk wrote:

The modern machines haven't, of course, reduced the useage linearly.
My AEG is 10 li/kg; modern 7 - 8kg ones are around 7 - 8 li/kg. The
washing time has also gone from a nominal 2h to 3h for the bigger
ones.

The main programmes on mine are 2:10 to 2:25. There are some shorter
ones, and even a 20 minute one (which actually works for not very dirty
stuff).

What weight does that take and what's the make & model, please?

We have a 15 min one on our Bosch Logiixx. 3kg.



--
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
My posts (including this one) are my copyright and if @diy_forums on
Twitter wish to tweet them they can pay me £30 a post
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

On Fri, 22 Nov 2013 11:32:23 -0000, Adam Funk wrote:

On 2013-11-21, Gefreiter Krueger wrote:

On Thu, 21 Nov 2013 12:00:12 -0000, Adam Funk wrote:

On 2013-11-21, Chris J Dixon wrote:

If you do the calculations, which may well vary amongst the
plethora of tariffs, benefit can easily be achieved on E7 without
storage heaters. It certainly works for me.

We use about 40% of our electricity at night without storage heaters
(which I don't like either):

* fridge & freezer are running occasionally all the time anyway,
although less at night when no-one opens the doors;

* washer-dryer overnight;

* 1 full-blast dishwasher run every night (but often 1 during the day
too, on the quick or eco programme);

* cellar dehumidifier running occasionally all the time (I can't get
it to work properly on a timer).

So the only things there that use more at night are the dishwasher, and the washer dryer.

I mentioned the other things because they are running intermittently
all the time, even when you're not "using" them.


I prefer to hand my washing up, it's free!

It's not free unless you have unmetered water & you're washing them in
cold!

I was referring to the dryer part, which uses the most electricity. And I meant "hang" not "hand", incase you thought I meant hand wash.

Full loads in a modern dishwasher are more efficient (in terms of
water & energy) than hand-washing. Dishwashers are also more
hygienic.

I use one through lazyness. I turned the temp down until it wasn't clean enough.

--
A farmer in Yorkshire sees a bloke drinking from his stream and shouts, €œEy up cocker, tha dunt wanna be drinkin watta frum theer, its full o hoss **** an cow ****e an it could kill thee.€�
The Bloke says, "Sir I am a muslim from Pakistan, can you be speaking clearer and slower please.€�
The farmer replies, "If.... You.... Use.... Two.... Hands.... You.... Won't.... Spill.... Any."

On Fri, 22 Nov 2013 14:25:39 -0000, Huge wrote:

On 2013-11-22, Adam Funk wrote:
On 2013-11-21, Gefreiter Krueger wrote:

I prefer to hand my washing up, it's free!

It's not free unless you have unmetered water & you're washing them in
cold!

... and your time is worthless. Which in the case of Lt. Troll, it most
definitely is.

It doesn't take long to hang washing up.

--
On going to war over religion:
You're basically killing each other to see who's got the better imaginary friend. -- Richard Jeni

In message , Bob Eager
writes
On Fri, 22 Nov 2013 16:05:29 +0000, PeterC wrote:

On Fri, 22 Nov 2013 11:34:12 +0000, Adam Funk wrote:

The modern machines haven't, of course, reduced the useage linearly.
My AEG is 10 li/kg; modern 7 - 8kg ones are around 7 - 8 li/kg. The
washing time has also gone from a nominal 2h to 3h for the bigger
ones.

The main programmes on mine are 2:10 to 2:25. There are some shorter
ones, and even a 20 minute one (which actually works for not very dirty
stuff).

What weight does that take and what's the make & model, please?

We have a 15 min one on our Bosch Logiixx. 3kg.



Yeah,we have one like that on our Bosch Excell. Not really a wash so
much as a freshen up really, and normally our stuff is too grubby. But
it has other programs in the 30-50 min range , which are more useful.

--
Chris French

On 2013-11-22, Gefreiter Krueger wrote:

On Fri, 22 Nov 2013 11:32:23 -0000, Adam Funk wrote:

On 2013-11-21, Gefreiter Krueger wrote:

So the only things there that use more at night are the dishwasher, and the washer dryer.

I mentioned the other things because they are running intermittently
all the time, even when you're not "using" them.


I prefer to hand my washing up, it's free!

It's not free unless you have unmetered water & you're washing them in
cold!

I was referring to the dryer part, which uses the most electricity. And I meant "hang" not "hand", incase you thought I meant hand wash.

Oops, I thought "hand my washing up" meant "do the washing-up (the
dishes) by hand". I agree about hanging laundry up (when practical)
instead of using the dryer.

On Fri, 22 Nov 2013 18:02:18 -0000, Adam Funk wrote:

On 2013-11-22, Gefreiter Krueger wrote:

On Fri, 22 Nov 2013 11:32:23 -0000, Adam Funk wrote:

On 2013-11-21, Gefreiter Krueger wrote:

So the only things there that use more at night are the dishwasher, and the washer dryer.

I mentioned the other things because they are running intermittently
all the time, even when you're not "using" them.


I prefer to hand my washing up, it's free!

It's not free unless you have unmetered water & you're washing them in
cold!

I was referring to the dryer part, which uses the most electricity. And I meant "hang" not "hand", incase you thought I meant hand wash.

Oops, I thought "hand my washing up" meant "do the washing-up (the
dishes) by hand". I agree about hanging laundry up (when practical)
instead of using the dryer.

I hand it over the bath. In Scotland it never dries outside. It's either very humid or raining.

--
The chance of a piece of bread falling down on its buttered side is directly proportional to the cost of the carpet.

On 2013-11-22, PeterC wrote:

On Fri, 22 Nov 2013 11:34:12 +0000, Adam Funk wrote:

The modern machines haven't, of course, reduced the useage linearly. My AEG
is 10 li/kg; modern 7 - 8kg ones are around 7 - 8 li/kg. The washing time
has also gone from a nominal 2h to 3h for the bigger ones.

The main programmes on mine are 2:10 to 2:25. There are some shorter
ones, and even a 20 minute one (which actually works for not very
dirty stuff).

What weight does that take and what's the make & model, please?

AEG L14850 (I think there 2 or 3 otherwise identical models with
different maximum spin speeds). The limit is 7 kg for the main
"cottons" programmes, reduced for the quicker options, 3 kg on the 20
minute programme, & 3.5 kg for drying.

I'll be honest: I don't weigh my laundry. I just fill the drum
without stuffing it (for drying, I fill it loosely halfway up).

On Fri, 22 Nov 2013 20:04:13 +0000, Adam Funk wrote:

On 2013-11-22, PeterC wrote:

On Fri, 22 Nov 2013 11:34:12 +0000, Adam Funk wrote:

The modern machines haven't, of course, reduced the useage linearly. My AEG
is 10 li/kg; modern 7 - 8kg ones are around 7 - 8 li/kg. The washing time
has also gone from a nominal 2h to 3h for the bigger ones.

The main programmes on mine are 2:10 to 2:25. There are some shorter
ones, and even a 20 minute one (which actually works for not very
dirty stuff).

What weight does that take and what's the make & model, please?

AEG L14850 (I think there 2 or 3 otherwise identical models with
different maximum spin speeds). The limit is 7 kg for the main
"cottons" programmes, reduced for the quicker options, 3 kg on the 20
minute programme, & 3.5 kg for drying.

I'll be honest: I don't weigh my laundry. I just fill the drum
without stuffing it (for drying, I fill it loosely halfway up).

OK, ta. AEG, Bosch and Siemens are the ones of interest. The 8kg Siemens I
looked at in JL has a 65 li drum but a 3-hour wash. I tend to do 'fluffies'
(polystuff) on cotton 30 as the lack of spins between rinses on fluffywash
offends me - and I put more in than the fluffywash takes, but not too much
as polystuff needs a bit more space.
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway