On 23/11/2013 18:08, Gefreiter Krueger wrote:
On Fri, 22 Nov 2013 11:32:23 -0000, Adam Funk
wrote:

Full loads in a modern dishwasher are more efficient (in terms of
water & energy) than hand-washing. Dishwashers are also more
hygienic.

A dishwasher insists on drying them with heat. By hand you let them drip.

Where is the difference? The dishwasher does not use any extra energy
for the drying generally[1] - the heat is just that left over from the
wash.

[1] Some have a small fan to blow the steam out after the wash to aid
the drying speed.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Sun, 24 Nov 2013 16:22:32 -0000, John Rumm wrote:

On 23/11/2013 18:08, Gefreiter Krueger wrote:
On Fri, 22 Nov 2013 11:32:23 -0000, Adam Funk
wrote:

Full loads in a modern dishwasher are more efficient (in terms of
water & energy) than hand-washing. Dishwashers are also more
hygienic.

A dishwasher insists on drying them with heat. By hand you let them drip.

Where is the difference? The dishwasher does not use any extra energy
for the drying generally[1] - the heat is just that left over from the
wash.

[1] Some have a small fan to blow the steam out after the wash to aid
the drying speed.

What on earth gave you that idea? When the wash is finished, the hot water is drained out, leaving very little heat. The element on the bottom powers up and dries off the dishes. I've watched my energy meter while it's drying, and there's kilowatts going in there.

--
Corduroy pillows are making headlines!

In message , Gefreiter Krueger
writes
On Sun, 24 Nov 2013 16:22:32 -0000, John Rumm
wrote:

On 23/11/2013 18:08, Gefreiter Krueger wrote:
On Fri, 22 Nov 2013 11:32:23 -0000, Adam Funk
wrote:

Full loads in a modern dishwasher are more efficient (in terms of
water & energy) than hand-washing. Dishwashers are also more
hygienic.

A dishwasher insists on drying them with heat. By hand you let them drip.

Where is the difference? The dishwasher does not use any extra energy
for the drying generally[1] - the heat is just that left over from the
wash.

[1] Some have a small fan to blow the steam out after the wash to aid
the drying speed.

What on earth gave you that idea?

Maybe it's what his machine does, like ours. My impression is that
residual heat drying is the norm

When the wash is finished, the hot water is drained out, leaving very
little heat.

There is lots of heat, the plates etc. are hot, as is the machine body.

The element on the bottom powers up and dries off the dishes. I've
watched my energy meter while it's drying, and there's kilowatts going
in there.

Maybe that is what older machines did (or some current ones for all I
know)), but it's not what our new one does (nor the one before it), it
uses a few watts on the drying cycle. anyway, it doesn't even have an
element on the bottom. The heater is part of/attached to the circulation
pump.
--
Chris French

On 24/11/2013 16:27, Gefreiter Krueger wrote:
On Sun, 24 Nov 2013 16:22:32 -0000, John Rumm
wrote:

On 23/11/2013 18:08, Gefreiter Krueger wrote:
On Fri, 22 Nov 2013 11:32:23 -0000, Adam Funk
wrote:

Full loads in a modern dishwasher are more efficient (in terms of
water & energy) than hand-washing. Dishwashers are also more
hygienic.

A dishwasher insists on drying them with heat. By hand you let them
drip.

Where is the difference? The dishwasher does not use any extra energy
for the drying generally[1] - the heat is just that left over from the
wash.

[1] Some have a small fan to blow the steam out after the wash to aid
the drying speed.

What on earth gave you that idea?

Knowing how they work perhaps...

When the wash is finished, the hot
water is drained out, leaving very little heat.

So am, where does all the heat go then? If the contents have been sat in
hot water for the last 45 mins, what temperature do you expect them to be?



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Sun, 24 Nov 2013 20:24:21 -0000, John Rumm wrote:

On 24/11/2013 16:27, Gefreiter Krueger wrote:
On Sun, 24 Nov 2013 16:22:32 -0000, John Rumm
wrote:

On 23/11/2013 18:08, Gefreiter Krueger wrote:
On Fri, 22 Nov 2013 11:32:23 -0000, Adam Funk
wrote:

Full loads in a modern dishwasher are more efficient (in terms of
water & energy) than hand-washing. Dishwashers are also more
hygienic.

A dishwasher insists on drying them with heat. By hand you let them
drip.

Where is the difference? The dishwasher does not use any extra energy
for the drying generally[1] - the heat is just that left over from the
wash.

[1] Some have a small fan to blow the steam out after the wash to aid
the drying speed.

What on earth gave you that idea?

Knowing how they work perhaps...

I have 1st hand evidence right in front of me. The dishwasher consumes 2kW during the drying cycle, during which time there is no water in the bottom. It is heating the air. Three different dishwashers have acted in this way.

When the wash is finished, the hot
water is drained out, leaving very little heat.

So am, where does all the heat go then? If the contents have been sat in
hot water for the last 45 mins, what temperature do you expect them to be?

That's not hot enough to dry them well. As the water evaporates, they cool. Try getting soaking wet then see if you feel cooler, despite the water you were in and the air around you being body temperature.

--
TESTICULATING
Waving your arms around and talking ********.

In message , Gefreiter Krueger
writes
On Sun, 24 Nov 2013 20:24:21 -0000, John Rumm
wrote:


So am, where does all the heat go then? If the contents have been sat in
hot water for the last 45 mins, what temperature do you expect them to be?

That's not hot enough to dry them well.

Yes it is.

As the water evaporates, they cool.


Yes of course, but not that much really . When I open my dishwasher
right at the end of the program. Plates and cups are still hot. Hot
enough to be sometimes uncomfortable to hold for very long, depending on
the wash temp.

The only things that don't always dry entirely are the tops of things
like mugs where there is an indentation and they are flat rather than at
an angle, and plastic containers - because they don't hold as much heat
as a ceramic plate, or metal dish or whatever.

Try getting soaking wet then see if you feel cooler, despite the water
you were in and the air around you being body temperature.


Entirely irrelvant :-)
--
Chris French

On Sun, 24 Nov 2013 20:20:57 -0000, chris French wrote:

In message , Gefreiter Krueger
writes
On Sun, 24 Nov 2013 16:22:32 -0000, John Rumm
wrote:

On 23/11/2013 18:08, Gefreiter Krueger wrote:
On Fri, 22 Nov 2013 11:32:23 -0000, Adam Funk
wrote:

Full loads in a modern dishwasher are more efficient (in terms of
water & energy) than hand-washing. Dishwashers are also more
hygienic.

A dishwasher insists on drying them with heat. By hand you let them drip.

Where is the difference? The dishwasher does not use any extra energy
for the drying generally[1] - the heat is just that left over from the
wash.

[1] Some have a small fan to blow the steam out after the wash to aid
the drying speed.

What on earth gave you that idea?

Maybe it's what his machine does, like ours. My impression is that
residual heat drying is the norm

When the wash is finished, the hot water is drained out, leaving very
little heat.

There is lots of heat, the plates etc. are hot, as is the machine body.

The element on the bottom powers up and dries off the dishes. I've
watched my energy meter while it's drying, and there's kilowatts going
in there.

Maybe that is what older machines did (or some current ones for all I
know)), but it's not what our new one does (nor the one before it), it
uses a few watts on the drying cycle. anyway, it doesn't even have an
element on the bottom. The heater is part of/attached to the circulation
pump.

I've always had ones with a large kettle type element, running right round the bottom. And if something plastic is resting on it that's fallen through the tray, then it melts.

If you think about it.... take a room and make it really humid, say with a piping hot shower. Notice the mirror is all wet. Now switch off the shower and close the door. The mirror and everything else does not dry out. You need extra heat or ventilation to remove the water. I always assumed the dishwasher sucked the steam out (there's usually a circular plastic vent on the side inside it), and applied more heat with the element.

If I open the door halfway through the drying cycle, I'm blasted in the face with hot steam. If I then open it again as soon as it's finished, there is much more hot steam. Which verifies it must be adding heat. I can't see it working any other way.

--
If a tree falls in the forest and no one is around to see it, do the other trees make fun of it?

On Sun, 24 Nov 2013 22:00:31 -0000, chris French wrote:

In message , Gefreiter Krueger
writes
On Sun, 24 Nov 2013 20:24:21 -0000, John Rumm
wrote:


So am, where does all the heat go then? If the contents have been sat in
hot water for the last 45 mins, what temperature do you expect them to be?

That's not hot enough to dry them well.

Yes it is.

As the water evaporates, they cool.

Yes of course, but not that much really . When I open my dishwasher
right at the end of the program. Plates and cups are still hot. Hot
enough to be sometimes uncomfortable to hold for very long, depending on
the wash temp.

Seems rather odd that some dishwashers do heat then. I'll have to check mine again now, it says AAA rating on the front and is fairly new, which I thought meant it was efficient.

[Examines dishwasher]

It doesn't have en element at the bottom, I must have been thinking of the Hotpoint I had before. This is a Beko. There is a vent in the side though.

[Engages Rapid wash, 35C, mainly because I can't be bothered waiting]

It's using 2kW as it heats the water it's washing with. [1]
Oh! Cold rinse. That'll be the AAA part. My old one did a hot rinse.
Hang on. 2nd rinse is warm. WTF? That's a long warm wash, a short cold rinse, then a long warm rinse (assuming the first was a wash and the subsequent ones rinses).

Well that failed miserably. There is no drying cycle on the "rapid" setting. The indicator LEDs went straight form "wash" to "end".

[1] The way a previous dishwasher worked, it just heated the water and washed, until it reached a certain temperature, which signalled it to empty and rinse. I found this out when I tried disconnected the heater to see what it would do with a cold wash. The ****ing thing ran for hours.

The only things that don't always dry entirely are the tops of things
like mugs where there is an indentation and they are flat rather than at
an angle, and plastic containers - because they don't hold as much heat
as a ceramic plate, or metal dish or whatever.

Try getting soaking wet then see if you feel cooler, despite the water
you were in and the air around you being body temperature.

Entirely irrelvant :-)

No it isn't. I've just shown you that the pots will quickly cool.

--
Condoms aren't completely safe. A friend of mine was wearing one and got hit by a bus.

On 2013-11-24, John Rumm wrote:

On 23/11/2013 18:08, Gefreiter Krueger wrote:
On Fri, 22 Nov 2013 11:32:23 -0000, Adam Funk
wrote:

Full loads in a modern dishwasher are more efficient (in terms of
water & energy) than hand-washing. Dishwashers are also more
hygienic.

A dishwasher insists on drying them with heat. By hand you let them drip.

Where is the difference? The dishwasher does not use any extra energy
for the drying generally[1] - the heat is just that left over from the
wash.

[1] Some have a small fan to blow the steam out after the wash to aid
the drying speed.

I'm not so sure. The manual for our new one has a table of
information about each programme --- one column is headed "Drying" &
contains "Full", "Light", or "No" for each programme, & the results
I've got agree with the table.

On Mon, 25 Nov 2013 10:33:23 -0000, Adam Funk wrote:

On 2013-11-24, John Rumm wrote:

On 23/11/2013 18:08, Gefreiter Krueger wrote:
On Fri, 22 Nov 2013 11:32:23 -0000, Adam Funk
wrote:

Full loads in a modern dishwasher are more efficient (in terms of
water & energy) than hand-washing. Dishwashers are also more
hygienic.

A dishwasher insists on drying them with heat. By hand you let them drip.

Where is the difference? The dishwasher does not use any extra energy
for the drying generally[1] - the heat is just that left over from the
wash.

[1] Some have a small fan to blow the steam out after the wash to aid
the drying speed.

I'm not so sure. The manual for our new one has a table of
information about each programme --- one column is headed "Drying" &
contains "Full", "Light", or "No" for each programme, & the results
I've got agree with the table.

Well on the standard washes, mine has the "Drying" LED illuminated for some time. On the rapid wash it just stops after rinsing. I seriously doubt it's just sitting there with an LED on a timer.

--
"I am" is reportedly the shortest sentence in the English language. Could it be that "I do" is the longest sentence?

On 24/11/2013 20:32, Gefreiter Krueger wrote:
On Sun, 24 Nov 2013 20:24:21 -0000, John Rumm
wrote:

On 24/11/2013 16:27, Gefreiter Krueger wrote:
On Sun, 24 Nov 2013 16:22:32 -0000, John Rumm
wrote:

On 23/11/2013 18:08, Gefreiter Krueger wrote:
On Fri, 22 Nov 2013 11:32:23 -0000, Adam Funk
wrote:

Full loads in a modern dishwasher are more efficient (in terms of
water & energy) than hand-washing. Dishwashers are also more
hygienic.

A dishwasher insists on drying them with heat. By hand you let them
drip.

Where is the difference? The dishwasher does not use any extra energy
for the drying generally[1] - the heat is just that left over from the
wash.

[1] Some have a small fan to blow the steam out after the wash to aid
the drying speed.

What on earth gave you that idea?

Knowing how they work perhaps...

I have 1st hand evidence right in front of me. The dishwasher consumes
2kW during the drying cycle, during which time there is no water in the
bottom. It is heating the air. Three different dishwashers have acted
in this way.

Most dishwashers now use an inline heater in the circulation system, so
there is no mechanism to heat the body of air in the machine, only the
water being circulated.




--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 25/11/2013 11:56, Gefreiter Krueger wrote:

Well on the standard washes, mine has the "Drying" LED illuminated for
some time. On the rapid wash it just stops after rinsing. I seriously
doubt it's just sitting there with an LED on a timer.

On mine (Miele 645 SC+) it runs a small fan, along with the LED and timer.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Mon, 25 Nov 2013 13:53:45 -0000, John Rumm wrote:

On 24/11/2013 20:32, Gefreiter Krueger wrote:
On Sun, 24 Nov 2013 20:24:21 -0000, John Rumm
wrote:

On 24/11/2013 16:27, Gefreiter Krueger wrote:
On Sun, 24 Nov 2013 16:22:32 -0000, John Rumm
wrote:

On 23/11/2013 18:08, Gefreiter Krueger wrote:




Where is the difference? The dishwasher does not use any extra energy
for the drying generally[1] - the heat is just that left over from the
wash.

[1] Some have a small fan to blow the steam out after the wash to aid
the drying speed.

What on earth gave you that idea?

Knowing how they work perhaps...

I have 1st hand evidence right in front of me. The dishwasher consumes
2kW during the drying cycle, during which time there is no water in the
bottom. It is heating the air. Three different dishwashers have acted
in this way.

Most dishwashers now use an inline heater in the circulation system, so
there is no mechanism to heat the body of air in the machine, only the
water being circulated.

Then what is mine doing when it says "drying" on the LED indicators?

--
The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire. -- US Air Force training manual.

On Mon, 25 Nov 2013 13:55:15 -0000, John Rumm wrote:

On 25/11/2013 11:56, Gefreiter Krueger wrote:

Well on the standard washes, mine has the "Drying" LED illuminated for
some time. On the rapid wash it just stops after rinsing. I seriously
doubt it's just sitting there with an LED on a timer.

On mine (Miele 645 SC+) it runs a small fan, along with the LED and timer.

I see. There is a vent on the side of mine, although it must condense it as it doesn't come out into the kitchen. It's not effective though, as opening the door produces masses of steam.

--
The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire. -- US Air Force training manual.

On 2013-11-20, Gefreiter Krueger wrote:

On Wed, 20 Nov 2013 20:18:58 -0000, Adam Funk wrote:

The energy companies don't seem to promote E7 much these days, but I
think that the last time I checked all the main ones offered it.

I probably thought it was a waste of money. Storage heaters are the
most uncontrollable pieces of **** I've ever sen, and it's not
worth it for other electric uses.

I don't have a copy of David Lodge's _Changing Places_, so I can't
look up the exact quote, but there's a funny bit where the American
academic (who has swapped houses with an English one) bemoans the
E7 storage heater system.

On Mon, 25 Nov 2013 16:26:30 -0000, Adam Funk wrote:

On 2013-11-20, Gefreiter Krueger wrote:

On Wed, 20 Nov 2013 20:18:58 -0000, Adam Funk wrote:

The energy companies don't seem to promote E7 much these days, but I
think that the last time I checked all the main ones offered it.

I probably thought it was a waste of money. Storage heaters are the
most uncontrollable pieces of **** I've ever sen, and it's not
worth it for other electric uses.

I don't have a copy of David Lodge's _Changing Places_, so I can't
look up the exact quote, but there's a funny bit where the American
academic (who has swapped houses with an English one) bemoans the
E7 storage heater system.

The only system I saw that worked well was my neighbour where I used to live. He had an enormous hot water tank, well insulated, with about six electric immersion heaters in it. They came on by radio control whenever the electricity board had spare power, and he had a very low rate to pay. The house was then heated by the tank with water radiators as you'd see in a gas central heating system. I've never heard of anyone else having such a thing.

--
McMurphy fell 12 stories, hitting the pavement like a paper bag filled with vegetable soup.

On 25/11/2013 15:36, Gefreiter Krueger wrote:
On Mon, 25 Nov 2013 13:53:45 -0000, John Rumm
wrote:

On 24/11/2013 20:32, Gefreiter Krueger wrote:
On Sun, 24 Nov 2013 20:24:21 -0000, John Rumm
wrote:

On 24/11/2013 16:27, Gefreiter Krueger wrote:
On Sun, 24 Nov 2013 16:22:32 -0000, John Rumm
wrote:

On 23/11/2013 18:08, Gefreiter Krueger wrote:




Where is the difference? The dishwasher does not use any extra energy
for the drying generally[1] - the heat is just that left over from
the
wash.

[1] Some have a small fan to blow the steam out after the wash to aid
the drying speed.

What on earth gave you that idea?

Knowing how they work perhaps...

I have 1st hand evidence right in front of me. The dishwasher consumes
2kW during the drying cycle, during which time there is no water in the
bottom. It is heating the air. Three different dishwashers have acted
in this way.

Most dishwashers now use an inline heater in the circulation system, so
there is no mechanism to heat the body of air in the machine, only the
water being circulated.

Then what is mine doing when it says "drying" on the LED indicators?

Waiting mostly... possibly circulating/extracting some air


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 25/11/2013 15:37, Gefreiter Krueger wrote:
On Mon, 25 Nov 2013 13:55:15 -0000, John Rumm
wrote:

On 25/11/2013 11:56, Gefreiter Krueger wrote:

Well on the standard washes, mine has the "Drying" LED illuminated for
some time. On the rapid wash it just stops after rinsing. I seriously
doubt it's just sitting there with an LED on a timer.

On mine (Miele 645 SC+) it runs a small fan, along with the LED and
timer.

I see. There is a vent on the side of mine, although it must condense
it as it doesn't come out into the kitchen. It's not effective though,
as opening the door produces masses of steam.

The vent on mine is on the front panel - a small louvre style thing. If
you hold you hand in front of it you feel a draft of warm wet air. Its
got a relatively low flow volume though - presumably to not cause a
great ejection of steam into the room.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Mon, 25 Nov 2013 17:12:17 -0000, John Rumm wrote:

On 25/11/2013 15:36, Gefreiter Krueger wrote:
On Mon, 25 Nov 2013 13:53:45 -0000, John Rumm
wrote:

On 24/11/2013 20:32, Gefreiter Krueger wrote:
On Sun, 24 Nov 2013 20:24:21 -0000, John Rumm
wrote:

On 24/11/2013 16:27, Gefreiter Krueger wrote:






Knowing how they work perhaps...

I have 1st hand evidence right in front of me. The dishwasher consumes
2kW during the drying cycle, during which time there is no water in the
bottom. It is heating the air. Three different dishwashers have acted
in this way.

Most dishwashers now use an inline heater in the circulation system, so
there is no mechanism to heat the body of air in the machine, only the
water being circulated.

Then what is mine doing when it says "drying" on the LED indicators?

Waiting mostly... possibly circulating/extracting some air

Just warning me not to take out the dishes when they're wet? It doesn't dry them very well by the way. The last one with an element at the bottom certainly did.

--
A man goes into a library and asks for a book on suicide.
The librarian says, "**** off, you won't bring it back!"

On Mon, 25 Nov 2013 17:14:39 -0000, John Rumm wrote:

On 25/11/2013 15:37, Gefreiter Krueger wrote:
On Mon, 25 Nov 2013 13:55:15 -0000, John Rumm
wrote:

On 25/11/2013 11:56, Gefreiter Krueger wrote:

Well on the standard washes, mine has the "Drying" LED illuminated for
some time. On the rapid wash it just stops after rinsing. I seriously
doubt it's just sitting there with an LED on a timer.

On mine (Miele 645 SC+) it runs a small fan, along with the LED and
timer.

I see. There is a vent on the side of mine, although it must condense
it as it doesn't come out into the kitchen. It's not effective though,
as opening the door produces masses of steam.

The vent on mine is on the front panel - a small louvre style thing. If
you hold you hand in front of it you feel a draft of warm wet air. Its
got a relatively low flow volume though - presumably to not cause a
great ejection of steam into the room.

I've never seen a dishwasher like that. If it's blowing warm air out, then the dishes won't stay hot for long. Are you sure it's not applying more heat?

--
Our parents got divorced when we were kids and it was kind of cool.

We got to go to divorce court with them. It was like a game show. My mom won the house and car. We're all excited. My dad got some luggage.

On 20/11/2013 20:18, Adam Funk wrote:

The energy companies don't seem to promote E7 much these days, but I
think that the last time I checked all the main ones offered it.


They have also been increasing the price of E7 by 20 to 35% per annum.

--
mailto:news{at}admac(dot}myzen{dot}co{dot}uk

In message , Gefreiter Krueger
writes
On Mon, 25 Nov 2013 17:14:39 -0000, John Rumm
wrote:

On 25/11/2013 15:37, Gefreiter Krueger wrote:
On Mon, 25 Nov 2013 13:55:15 -0000, John Rumm
wrote:

On 25/11/2013 11:56, Gefreiter Krueger wrote:

Well on the standard washes, mine has the "Drying" LED illuminated for
some time. On the rapid wash it just stops after rinsing. I seriously
doubt it's just sitting there with an LED on a timer.

On mine (Miele 645 SC+) it runs a small fan, along with the LED and
timer.

I see. There is a vent on the side of mine, although it must condense
it as it doesn't come out into the kitchen. It's not effective though,
as opening the door produces masses of steam.

The vent on mine is on the front panel - a small louvre style thing. If
you hold you hand in front of it you feel a draft of warm wet air. Its
got a relatively low flow volume though - presumably to not cause a
great ejection of steam into the room.

I've never seen a dishwasher like that.

A friends Miele DW has that sort of system as well. Not seen it any
others.

If it's blowing warm air out, then the dishes won't stay hot for
long.

Well, it's removing the damp air, so they will be drying quicker I
guess.


--
Chris French

In message , Gefreiter Krueger
writes
On Mon, 25 Nov 2013 17:12:17 -0000, John Rumm
wrote:

On 25/11/2013 15:36, Gefreiter Krueger wrote:
On Mon, 25 Nov 2013 13:53:45 -0000, John Rumm
wrote:

On 24/11/2013 20:32, Gefreiter Krueger wrote:
On Sun, 24 Nov 2013 20:24:21 -0000, John Rumm
wrote:

On 24/11/2013 16:27, Gefreiter Krueger wrote:






Knowing how they work perhaps...

I have 1st hand evidence right in front of me. The dishwasher consumes
2kW during the drying cycle, during which time there is no water in the
bottom. It is heating the air. Three different dishwashers have acted
in this way.

Most dishwashers now use an inline heater in the circulation system, so
there is no mechanism to heat the body of air in the machine, only the
water being circulated.

Then what is mine doing when it says "drying" on the LED indicators?

Waiting mostly... possibly circulating/extracting some air

Just warning me not to take out the dishes when they're wet?

It's letting them dry using the residual heat in the contents. Just
because it isn't 'doing' anything in the active sense doesn't make it
not part of the cycle.

The quickest way to get them dry is probably to open the door once it's
on the dry bit of the cycle.

Our old AEG used to sit for ages - about 45mins on the eco program. If
I waa around I would often open the door, let the steam out and let
things finish drying (which works well) and cool down and then unload
(maybe not advisable though if you have it under the work top as the
steam venting may cause gradual damage

Our new bosch seems to have a relativey short drying phase so haven't
bothered so mcuh with that

--
Chris French

On Mon, 25 Nov 2013 18:26:55 -0000, chris French wrote:

In message , Gefreiter Krueger
writes
On Mon, 25 Nov 2013 17:14:39 -0000, John Rumm
wrote:

On 25/11/2013 15:37, Gefreiter Krueger wrote:
On Mon, 25 Nov 2013 13:55:15 -0000, John Rumm
wrote:

On 25/11/2013 11:56, Gefreiter Krueger wrote:



On mine (Miele 645 SC+) it runs a small fan, along with the LED and
timer.

I see. There is a vent on the side of mine, although it must condense
it as it doesn't come out into the kitchen. It's not effective though,
as opening the door produces masses of steam.

The vent on mine is on the front panel - a small louvre style thing. If
you hold you hand in front of it you feel a draft of warm wet air. Its
got a relatively low flow volume though - presumably to not cause a
great ejection of steam into the room.

I've never seen a dishwasher like that.

A friends Miele DW has that sort of system as well. Not seen it any
others.

If it's blowing warm air out, then the dishes won't stay hot for
long.

Well, it's removing the damp air, so they will be drying quicker I
guess.

Miele do tend to make better quality products.

--
Why do MPs drive Volvos?
Because they have safe seats.

On Mon, 25 Nov 2013 18:34:45 -0000, chris French wrote:

In message , Gefreiter Krueger
writes
On Mon, 25 Nov 2013 17:12:17 -0000, John Rumm
wrote:

On 25/11/2013 15:36, Gefreiter Krueger wrote:
On Mon, 25 Nov 2013 13:53:45 -0000, John Rumm
wrote:

On 24/11/2013 20:32, Gefreiter Krueger wrote:








Most dishwashers now use an inline heater in the circulation system, so
there is no mechanism to heat the body of air in the machine, only the
water being circulated.

Then what is mine doing when it says "drying" on the LED indicators?

Waiting mostly... possibly circulating/extracting some air

Just warning me not to take out the dishes when they're wet?

It's letting them dry using the residual heat in the contents. Just
because it isn't 'doing' anything in the active sense doesn't make it
not part of the cycle.

The quickest way to get them dry is probably to open the door once it's
on the dry bit of the cycle.

I do sometimes. Which means it's designed badly. There should be a vent.

Our old AEG used to sit for ages - about 45mins on the eco program. If
I waa around I would often open the door, let the steam out and let
things finish drying (which works well) and cool down and then unload
(maybe not advisable though if you have it under the work top as the
steam venting may cause gradual damage

Our new bosch seems to have a relativey short drying phase so haven't
bothered so mcuh with that

Mine is a Beko and the dishes are not that dry when it's finished if I leave it to it.

--
Police cordoned off Liverpool City Centre this morning when a suspicious object was discovered in a car.
It later turned out to be a tax disc.

On Mon, 25 Nov 2013 19:12:52 -0000, Tim Streater wrote:

In article , Adam Funk
wrote:

On 2013-11-20, Gefreiter Krueger wrote:

On Wed, 20 Nov 2013 20:18:58 -0000, Adam Funk wrote:

The energy companies don't seem to promote E7 much these days, but I
think that the last time I checked all the main ones offered it.

I probably thought it was a waste of money. Storage heaters are the
most uncontrollable pieces of **** I've ever sen, and it's not
worth it for other electric uses.

I don't have a copy of David Lodge's _Changing Places_, so I can't
look up the exact quote, but there's a funny bit where the American
academic (who has swapped houses with an English one) bemoans the
E7 storage heater system.

While they are not going to be ideal, I'd have said they are probably
not bad if the alternative is nothing at all. If you arrive in the
morning at an office that has no built in heating system, and the first
thing you do is go round and turn on a bunch of fan heaters, I'd say
you're prolly much better off if the place has storage heaters.

What's wrong with a timer? Why have the place warm all night?

Our (thin-walled) village hall costs £5/hour to heat on a cold winter's
evening. I shall be pushing to get some storage heaters put in so that
there's some chance of reducing the winter electric bill.

Watch the bill increase as heat escapes from the building all night long.. And as you misjudge tomorrow's weather and put the wrong amount of heat in, then end up opening the windows. It's a bloody stupid invention and I can't believe they're still making them.

We're running the immersion overnight now for hot water - cheaper than
oil.

--
A dyslexic man walks into a bra.