On Wed, 04 Nov 2015 10:33:06 +0000, Capitol wrote:

IMO no cold
fill machine can ever work well. The laws of diffusion say so.

Explain.

On 11/4/2015 7:10 AM, Martin Bonner wrote:

Re US machines: do they typically run at 120V or 240V? If the former,
that might be one of the reasons for hot-fill. (It's hard to get more
than 13-16A through a plug+socket, and 16A at 120V takes a long time
to heat anything - same reason boiling-water taps are more popular in
the US.)

I've never seen a 120v US washing machine. Dryers, yes, they run at
240v, but gas dryers are much more common in the US than they are in the
UK.
My US washing machine is a 120v frontloader with both hot and cold fill,
the dryer is gas.
My UK washing machine is a 240v (230v?)frontloader with both hot and
cold fill; the dryer is a 240k electric.
The US dryer gets more use than the UK one, gas being considerably
cheaper to run.

On 2015-11-03, Capitol wrote:

harry wrote:

(A) Little of the hot water makes it to the machine anyway.
(B) Starting from cold enables a cleaner wash.
Hot water on laundry sets stains in.

Cold water only is cheaper to make.

So that why nobody makes mixed fill washing machines these days.
They told you the truth.

So why does the US market use hot and cold fill machines?

American dual-fill washing machines don't have internal heating
elements. The "hot" program fills the wash phase from the hot tap
water (including the dead leg, I presume, unless there's a diverter in
the input); the "cold" program fills it from the cold tap water; the
"warm" program uses a mixture. Those machines do not have the
high-temperature "sanitizing" (or "blasting your towels") programs
that we get. (OTOH, we don't generally get a true cold program; I'd
be happy to use that for some things because they last longer.)

On 04/11/15 12:10, Martin Bonner wrote:

Hmm. Not had mould problems in our washing machine, despite (I think)
*never* having done a 90C wash.

Did you do a 60C wash?

I think a lot of the modern problems have come about with people never
going above 40C or even 30C, because of this silly eco-******** that
it's worth saving some small fraction of a kWh for a 30C wash vs 60C

On 2015-11-04, Tim Watts wrote:

On 04/11/15 12:10, Martin Bonner wrote:

Hmm. Not had mould problems in our washing machine, despite (I think)
*never* having done a 90C wash.

Did you do a 60C wash?

I think a lot of the modern problems have come about with people never
going above 40C or even 30C, because of this silly eco-******** that
it's worth saving some small fraction of a kWh for a 30C wash vs 60C

I think clothes last longer if washed at lower temperatures. I do use
the higher ones for handkerchiefs, towels, sheets, & underwear,
though.

On 04/11/15 14:29, Adam Funk wrote:
On 2015-11-04, Tim Watts wrote:

On 04/11/15 12:10, Martin Bonner wrote:

Hmm. Not had mould problems in our washing machine, despite (I think)
*never* having done a 90C wash.

Did you do a 60C wash?

I think a lot of the modern problems have come about with people never
going above 40C or even 30C, because of this silly eco-******** that
it's worth saving some small fraction of a kWh for a 30C wash vs 60C

I think clothes last longer if washed at lower temperatures. I do use
the higher ones for handkerchiefs, towels, sheets, & underwear,
though.


Possibly. They almost certainly last longer if you don't tumble dry
them, judging by how much lint ends up in the filters!

In article ,
Capitol wrote:
So why does the US market use hot and cold fill machines?

They tend to be top loaders and use a vast amount of water compared to a
front loader. What some are used to. The same people like to change the
oil in their cars every 1000 miles.


You
are regurgitating someone else's opinion as fact. Cold fill washing
machines only work properly with bio powders.

********. They heat the water to anything you want.

Go away and do some
research. If I am prepared to pay for the product it should be readily
available, not all us want to use washboards!

With 99% of domestic hot water systems, the hot to the machine won't be
hot anyway - unless you've run it hot from the tap before.

--
*Organized Crime Is Alive And Well; It's Called Auto Insurance. *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Capitol wrote:
So why does the US market use hot and cold fill machines?

They tend to be top loaders and use a vast amount of water compared to a
front loader. What some are used to. The same people like to change the
oil in their cars every 1000 miles.


You
are regurgitating someone else's opinion as fact. Cold fill washing
machines only work properly with bio powders.

********. They heat the water to anything you want.

Go away and do some
research. If I am prepared to pay for the product it should be readily
available, not all us want to use washboards!

With 99% of domestic hot water systems, the hot to the machine won't be
hot anyway - unless you've run it hot from the tap before.


On a recent trip to Oregon one motel we used had a front loading washing
machine. I did notice it only had one pipe leading to the water supply.

Our laundry room is at the furthest point in the house from the hot water
cylinder so absolutely no point in having a dual fill machine.

Mike

On 2015-11-04, Tim Watts wrote:

On 04/11/15 14:29, Adam Funk wrote:
On 2015-11-04, Tim Watts wrote:

On 04/11/15 12:10, Martin Bonner wrote:

Hmm. Not had mould problems in our washing machine, despite (I think)
*never* having done a 90C wash.

Did you do a 60C wash?

I think a lot of the modern problems have come about with people never
going above 40C or even 30C, because of this silly eco-******** that
it's worth saving some small fraction of a kWh for a 30C wash vs 60C

I think clothes last longer if washed at lower temperatures. I do use
the higher ones for handkerchiefs, towels, sheets, & underwear,
though.


Possibly. They almost certainly last longer if you don't tumble dry
them, judging by how much lint ends up in the filters!

That probably helps too, although I compromise with it in order to
limit the amount of laundry hanging around in the house during the
winter. But I think towels are a lot softer after tumble-drying.

Martin Bonner wrote:
On Wednesday, 4 November 2015 09:48:35 UTC+1, Tim Watts wrote:

On 03/11/15 23:34, alan_m wrote:

On 03/11/2015 17:26, Capitol wrote:



that mould growth in cold washing machines
is a problem that customers can live with.

Is mould due to cold fill or just steam from hot water condensing in
various parts of the machine?

It's due to not running a 90C wash every couple of weeks or so.
Miele now have a hygiene light that comes and and forces you to do one
as they've had problems with hoses getting fouled up plus "stinky drum".

Hmm. Not had mould problems in our washing machine, despite (I think)
*never* having done a 90C wash.

Re US machines: do they typically run at 120V or 240V? If the former,
that might be one of the reasons for hot-fill. (It's hard to get more
than 13-16A through a plug+socket, and 16A at 120V takes a long time
to heat anything - same reason boiling-water taps are more popular in
the US.)

Normally 240v

Adam Funk wrote:
On 2015-11-03, Capitol wrote:


harry wrote:


(A) Little of the hot water makes it to the machine anyway.
(B) Starting from cold enables a cleaner wash.
Hot water on laundry sets stains in.

Cold water only is cheaper to make.

So that why nobody makes mixed fill washing machines these days.
They told you the truth.


So why does the US market use hot and cold fill machines?

American dual-fill washing machines don't have internal heating
elements. The "hot" program fills the wash phase from the hot tap
water (including the dead leg, I presume, unless there's a diverter in
the input); the "cold" program fills it from the cold tap water; the
"warm" program uses a mixture. Those machines do not have the
high-temperature "sanitizing" (or "blasting your towels") programs
that we get. (OTOH, we don't generally get a true cold program; I'd
be happy to use that for some things because they last longer.)

Some don't have internal heaters, some do.

Tim Watts wrote:
On 04/11/15 12:10, Martin Bonner wrote:

Hmm. Not had mould problems in our washing machine, despite (I think)
*never* having done a 90C wash.

Did you do a 60C wash?

I think a lot of the modern problems have come about with people never
going above 40C or even 30C, because of this silly eco-******** that
it's worth saving some small fraction of a kWh for a 30C wash vs 60C



I agree, washing machines now are designed to conform to the
climate change religion and have lost much of their washing performance.

Muddymike wrote:
In article ,
Capitol wrote:
So why does the US market use hot and cold fill machines?

They tend to be top loaders and use a vast amount of water compared to a
front loader. What some are used to. The same people like to change the
oil in their cars every 1000 miles.


You
are regurgitating someone else's opinion as fact. Cold fill washing
machines only work properly with bio powders.

********. They heat the water to anything you want.

Go away and do some
research. If I am prepared to pay for the product it should be readily
available, not all us want to use washboards!

With 99% of domestic hot water systems, the hot to the machine won't be
hot anyway - unless you've run it hot from the tap before.


On a recent trip to Oregon one motel we used had a front loading
washing machine. I did notice it only had one pipe leading to the
water supply.

Our laundry room is at the furthest point in the house from the hot
water cylinder so absolutely no point in having a dual fill machine.

Mike
Front loaders are becoming much more common and the oil change
interval is 3K miles. Personally I use 6K. Seems to work to 180K miles
at least.

On 04/11/15 16:37, Adam Funk wrote:

That probably helps too, although I compromise with it in order to
limit the amount of laundry hanging around in the house during the
winter. But I think towels are a lot softer after tumble-drying.

Yes - that is certainly true - mine are stiffer since switching to
dehumidifier based drying.

However, it has been offset acceptably by going back to using softener,
now there's a nice hypoallergenic one that seems to work for everyone.

So really what you are saying is that its not so much the single line fill
its the actual design of the programmes that run the machine that is the
issue. I do find modern machines are very like Windows machines in that the
time they take for a program is like a bit of elastic. IE on some fabrics it
seems to take an age and still not dry thestuff at the end of a very
fastsping but on others its very fast, though according to my friend, it
starts off estimating ghe same time for both, so Wahing machine minutes
obviously vary in length with the fabric.

I have a panasonic which seems a workmanlike machine and I have few issues
with cold fill other then the timing lies really.
I may still try the mixer though.
Brian

--
Brian Gaff....Note, this account does not accept Bcc: email.
graphics are great, but the blind can't hear them
Email:
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________


"Capitol" wrote in message
...
Brian-Gaff wrote:
Well, one other thing to consider is a mixer device. A friend of mine
says a
mixer device is available for cold fill machines that stops the high
pressure cold going back up the hot feed and you set the mixing to a nice
normally warm temp and it seems to work well.
The issue of the hot running cold is not an issue as of course being a
cold fill only it then just reverts to heating the cold water.
I've not tried it myself, but I do wonder if dual connection machines
are
in fact just doing what the hose does inside the machine.
Brian


Yes, I did consider doing that, as both hot and cold feeds are
equal pressure a simple combiner will work. The advantage of your system
is that rinsing will be done in warm water which is more efficient. I do
not know of any modern washing machine which works properly. The wash is
crap due to lack of water and the rinse totally inadequate for the same
reason.

Tim Watts wrote:
On 04/11/15 16:37, Adam Funk wrote:

That probably helps too, although I compromise with it in order to
limit the amount of laundry hanging around in the house during the
winter. But I think towels are a lot softer after tumble-drying.

Yes - that is certainly true - mine are stiffer since switching to
dehumidifier based drying.

However, it has been offset acceptably by going back to using
softener, now there's a nice hypoallergenic one that seems to work for
everyone.

It was my understanding that softener reduces the water
absorption capacity of towels and should not be used?

On 03/11/2015 20:42, Capitol wrote:

I missed that one, but the 60 degree cycle time of 205 minutes
is totally unacceptable.

longer cycle times tend to come with lower water usage... The
requirements for lower water usage are driven by EU legislation that
requires certain minimum "washing efficiencies". They are defined in
this document:

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-conte...0R1015&from=EN

It's also too big to fit the space. IMO the

What size of machine are you looking for then? That one seems to be a
standard size.

spin speed is also too high for reliability.

Can't really see why, however they let you choose your spin speed
normally, so use a slower one if you think it will help.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 04/11/2015 17:38, John Rumm wrote:
On 03/11/2015 20:42, Capitol wrote:

I missed that one, but the 60 degree cycle time of 205 minutes
is totally unacceptable.

longer cycle times tend to come with lower water usage... The
requirements for lower water usage are driven by EU legislation that
requires certain minimum "washing efficiencies". They are defined in
this document:

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-conte...0R1015&from=EN


It's also too big to fit the space. IMO the

What size of machine are you looking for then? That one seems to be a
standard size.

spin speed is also too high for reliability.

Can't really see why, however they let you choose your spin speed
normally, so use a slower one if you think it will help.

Ours has a top speed of 1600 rpm and the machine still works 100%
after nearly 12 years, Zanussi.

On 04/11/2015 10:33, Capitol wrote:

IMO no cold
fill machine can ever work well. The laws of diffusion say so.

Do you care to explain what you mean by that?

On 04/11/15 17:18, Capitol wrote:
Tim Watts wrote:
On 04/11/15 16:37, Adam Funk wrote:

That probably helps too, although I compromise with it in order to
limit the amount of laundry hanging around in the house during the
winter. But I think towels are a lot softer after tumble-drying.

Yes - that is certainly true - mine are stiffer since switching to
dehumidifier based drying.

However, it has been offset acceptably by going back to using
softener, now there's a nice hypoallergenic one that seems to work for
everyone.

It was my understanding that softener reduces the water
absorption capacity of towels and should not be used?

It was my understanding that it coats the fibres with something that
reduces static cling - no idea if it also reduces absorption but they
seem to work OK - better than new when they definately do have some
treatment.

On Wednesday, 4 November 2015 10:31:06 UTC, Capitol wrote:
Chris French wrote:
In message ,
Capitol writes
Tim+ wrote:
wrote:

You
are regurgitating someone else's opinion as fact. Cold fill washing
machines only work properly with bio powders. Go away and do some
research. If I am prepared to pay for the product it should be readily
available, not all us want to use washboards!


The only time we've used a US washing machine it's performance was very
unimpressive.


Date?

Was staying with relatives in Canada in 2011.

I was unimpressed with the washing performance of their washing
machine, compared to ours. Which was a top loading US style machine,
presumably the same sort of thing. Don't know the age of the machine
though.

Back to the UK, why would a cold fill only machine only work well with
bio powders? I use both bio and non bio powders in ours and they both
work well.- They take cold water and heat it up, as opposed to using
some hot water as well and then heating that up.. True they heat the
water at a speed that enables the enzymes to work first (if it is a
hot wash program). But hot and cold fill machines will do the same
thing, it's just that they will use some hot water to raise the wash
water temp.

I would imagine that even H&C fill machines don't use hot water on the
cooler wash programs. Probably only using hot water to fill on the 60+
programs. But they will still start off cool and then heat up, mostly
using the hot fill water to raise the water temp higher later on in
the wash I expect.


Been using US LG front loading washing machine dual fill and
separate tumble dryer since 2011. These have done 3K washes at various
temperatures and perform far, far better than any machine she has come
across in the UK. I considered revamping the kitchen to fit a couple of
these 700mm wide (?) machines in but couldn't justify the work. I
estimate the last UK machine did 2K washes max before breaking. The hot
water usage on dual fill machines can take place at any temperature
above say 5C , depends entirely on how good the design is. IMO no cold
fill machine can ever work well. The laws of diffusion say so.

The best machine is Miele.
We have had ours for nearly thirty years. No problems.
The last house was a guest house.

On Wednesday, 4 November 2015 17:38:31 UTC, John Rumm wrote:
On 03/11/2015 20:42, Capitol wrote:

I missed that one, but the 60 degree cycle time of 205 minutes
is totally unacceptable.

longer cycle times tend to come with lower water usage... The
requirements for lower water usage are driven by EU legislation that
requires certain minimum "washing efficiencies". They are defined in
this document:

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-conte...0R1015&from=EN

It's also too big to fit the space. IMO the

What size of machine are you looking for then? That one seems to be a
standard size.

spin speed is also too high for reliability.

Can't really see why, however they let you choose your spin speed
normally, so use a slower one if you think it will help.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

There are two aspect to washing.
One is the detergents, the other is the mechanical action.
Machine that useless water, use more mechanical action.
This however wears out the laundry.
Most wear & tear on clothing etc arises through laundering.

Any machine with no heater will never work well as it cannot achieve optimum temperatures to do the job

On 04/11/2015 16:56, Capitol wrote:
Tim Watts wrote:
On 04/11/15 12:10, Martin Bonner wrote:

Hmm. Not had mould problems in our washing machine, despite (I think)
*never* having done a 90C wash.

Did you do a 60C wash?

I think a lot of the modern problems have come about with people never
going above 40C or even 30C, because of this silly eco-******** that
it's worth saving some small fraction of a kWh for a 30C wash vs 60C



I agree, washing machines now are designed to conform to the
climate change religion and have lost much of their washing performance.

You must be using a cheap washer, the one I have washes better than the
one I had twenty years ago.

In article om,
dennis@home wrote:
On 04/11/2015 16:56, Capitol wrote:
Tim Watts wrote:
On 04/11/15 12:10, Martin Bonner wrote:

Hmm. Not had mould problems in our washing machine, despite (I think)
*never* having done a 90C wash.

Did you do a 60C wash?

I think a lot of the modern problems have come about with people never
going above 40C or even 30C, because of this silly eco-******** that
it's worth saving some small fraction of a kWh for a 30C wash vs 60C



I agree, washing machines now are designed to conform to the
climate change religion and have lost much of their washing performance.

You must be using a cheap washer, the one I have washes better than the
one I had twenty years ago.

but, does it rinse as well as the old one?

--
Please note new email address:

"harry" wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, 4 November 2015 17:38:31 UTC, John Rumm wrote:
On 03/11/2015 20:42, Capitol wrote:

I missed that one, but the 60 degree cycle time of 205 minutes
is totally unacceptable.

longer cycle times tend to come with lower water usage... The
requirements for lower water usage are driven by EU legislation that
requires certain minimum "washing efficiencies". They are defined in
this document:

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-conte...0R1015&from=EN

It's also too big to fit the space. IMO the

What size of machine are you looking for then? That one seems to be a
standard size.

spin speed is also too high for reliability.

Can't really see why, however they let you choose your spin speed
normally, so use a slower one if you think it will help.

There are two aspect to washing.
One is the detergents, the other is the mechanical action.
Machine that useless water, use more mechanical action.
This however wears out the laundry.
Most wear & tear on clothing etc arises through laundering.

Must explain why the arse wears out on my jeans first.

Any machine with no heater will never work well as
it cannot achieve optimum temperatures to do the job

Must explain why mine washes fine with just cold water
and no heat at all.

On 04/11/15 19:38, charles wrote:
In article om,
dennis@home wrote:
On 04/11/2015 16:56, Capitol wrote:
Tim Watts wrote:
On 04/11/15 12:10, Martin Bonner wrote:

Hmm. Not had mould problems in our washing machine, despite (I think)
*never* having done a 90C wash.

Did you do a 60C wash?

I think a lot of the modern problems have come about with people never
going above 40C or even 30C, because of this silly eco-******** that
it's worth saving some small fraction of a kWh for a 30C wash vs 60C



I agree, washing machines now are designed to conform to the
climate change religion and have lost much of their washing performance.

You must be using a cheap washer, the one I have washes better than the
one I had twenty years ago.

but, does it rinse as well as the old one?


Mine does -

On 11/4/2015 11:54 AM, Capitol wrote:
Adam Funk wrote:
So why does the US market use hot and cold fill machines?
American dual-fill washing machines don't have internal heating
elements. The "hot" program fills the wash phase from the hot tap
water (including the dead leg, I presume, unless there's a diverter in
the input); the "cold" program fills it from the cold tap water; the
"warm" program uses a mixture. Those machines do not have the
high-temperature "sanitizing" (or "blasting your towels") programs
that we get. (OTOH, we don't generally get a true cold program; I'd
be happy to use that for some things because they last longer.)

Some don't have internal heaters, some do.

Our most recent US washer has an internal heater which only functions on
the 'sanitize' program - otherwise it simply mixes hot and cold.

On 11/4/2015 11:51 AM, Capitol wrote:
Martin Bonner wrote:
Re US machines: do they typically run at 120V or 240V? If the former,
that might be one of the reasons for hot-fill. (It's hard to get more
than 13-16A through a plug+socket, and 16A at 120V takes a long time
to heat anything - same reason boiling-water taps are more popular in
the US.)

Normally 240v

No.
US _dryers_ are normally 240v. Washers are normally 120v.
Perhaps commercial machines are different, but US home washers are
generally _not_ 240v.

On 04/11/2015 19:38, charles wrote:

8

I agree, washing machines now are designed to conform to the
climate change religion and have lost much of their washing performance.

You must be using a cheap washer, the one I have washes better than the
one I had twenty years ago.

but, does it rinse as well as the old one?


Better, more rinses with less water per rinse works better.

On 2015-11-04, Tim Watts wrote:

On 04/11/15 16:37, Adam Funk wrote:

That probably helps too, although I compromise with it in order to
limit the amount of laundry hanging around in the house during the
winter. But I think towels are a lot softer after tumble-drying.

Yes - that is certainly true - mine are stiffer since switching to
dehumidifier based drying.

However, it has been offset acceptably by going back to using softener,
now there's a nice hypoallergenic one that seems to work for everyone.

I'm inclined to agree (with what I've read recently) that fabric
softeners reduce the absorbency of towels. I think the best towel
"performance" comes from washing without fabric softener then
tumble-drying at least partially (I think towels that are tumble-dried
for half an hour then air-dried as needed are OK).

On 2015-11-04, S Viemeister wrote:

On 11/4/2015 11:54 AM, Capitol wrote:
Adam Funk wrote:
So why does the US market use hot and cold fill machines?
American dual-fill washing machines don't have internal heating
elements. The "hot" program fills the wash phase from the hot tap
water (including the dead leg, I presume, unless there's a diverter in
the input); the "cold" program fills it from the cold tap water; the
"warm" program uses a mixture. Those machines do not have the
high-temperature "sanitizing" (or "blasting your towels") programs
that we get. (OTOH, we don't generally get a true cold program; I'd
be happy to use that for some things because they last longer.)

Some don't have internal heaters, some do.

Our most recent US washer has an internal heater which only functions on
the 'sanitize' program - otherwise it simply mixes hot and cold.

I think that's unusual (but certainly not implausible). Does it run
on a 240 V plug?

On 11/4/2015 4:20 PM, Adam Funk wrote:
On 2015-11-04, S Viemeister wrote:

On 11/4/2015 11:54 AM, Capitol wrote:
Adam Funk wrote:
So why does the US market use hot and cold fill machines?
American dual-fill washing machines don't have internal heating
elements. The "hot" program fills the wash phase from the hot tap
water (including the dead leg, I presume, unless there's a diverter in
the input); the "cold" program fills it from the cold tap water; the
"warm" program uses a mixture. Those machines do not have the
high-temperature "sanitizing" (or "blasting your towels") programs
that we get. (OTOH, we don't generally get a true cold program; I'd
be happy to use that for some things because they last longer.)

Some don't have internal heaters, some do.

Our most recent US washer has an internal heater which only functions on
the 'sanitize' program - otherwise it simply mixes hot and cold.

I think that's unusual (but certainly not implausible). Does it run
on a 240 V plug?

Yes, it is unusual.
No, it doesn't use a 240v plug.
I didn't buy it for that function - I only discovered it when reading
the manual.

On 04/11/2015 18:35, Tim Watts wrote:
On 04/11/15 17:18, Capitol wrote:
Tim Watts wrote:
On 04/11/15 16:37, Adam Funk wrote:

That probably helps too, although I compromise with it in order to
limit the amount of laundry hanging around in the house during the
winter. But I think towels are a lot softer after tumble-drying.

Yes - that is certainly true - mine are stiffer since switching to
dehumidifier based drying.

However, it has been offset acceptably by going back to using
softener, now there's a nice hypoallergenic one that seems to work for
everyone.

It was my understanding that softener reduces the water
absorption capacity of towels and should not be used?

It was my understanding that it coats the fibres with something that
reduces static cling - no idea if it also reduces absorption but they
seem to work OK - better than new when they definately do have some
treatment.

They used to recommend not using softening on towels since it reduced
their effectiveness. Not sure it has much detrimental effect with modern
softeners though.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

Tim Streater wrote:
In article m,
dennis@home wrote:

On 04/11/2015 10:33, Capitol wrote:

IMO no cold
fill machine can ever work well. The laws of diffusion say so.

Do you care to explain what you mean by that?

Well he can't, can he. Because like WeatherLawyer he doesn't know his
arse from a hole in the ground.

Try learning some physics Tim. I'm not here to teach you.

On Thu, 05 Nov 2015 10:30:37 +0000, Capitol wrote:

Tim Streater wrote:
In article m,
dennis@home wrote:

On 04/11/2015 10:33, Capitol wrote:

IMO no cold fill machine can ever work well. The laws of diffusion
say so.

Do you care to explain what you mean by that?

Well he can't, can he. Because like WeatherLawyer he doesn't know his
arse from a hole in the ground.

Try learning some physics Tim. I'm not here to teach you.

Sorry, but that's the classic get-out from someone who doesn't really
have an argument at all.

S Viemeister wrote:
On 11/4/2015 11:51 AM, Capitol wrote:
Martin Bonner wrote:
Re US machines: do they typically run at 120V or 240V? If the former,
that might be one of the reasons for hot-fill. (It's hard to get more
than 13-16A through a plug+socket, and 16A at 120V takes a long time
to heat anything - same reason boiling-water taps are more popular in
the US.)

Normally 240v

No.
US _dryers_ are normally 240v. Washers are normally 120v.
Perhaps commercial machines are different, but US home washers are
generally _not_ 240v.

OK, corrected. My experience has been all at 240V but I
haven't looked at the current offerings in any detail. I'll check again
at Xmas.

On 05/11/2015 10:30, Capitol wrote:
Tim Streater wrote:
In article m,
dennis@home wrote:

On 04/11/2015 10:33, Capitol wrote:

IMO no cold
fill machine can ever work well. The laws of diffusion say so.

Do you care to explain what you mean by that?

Well he can't, can he. Because like WeatherLawyer he doesn't know his
arse from a hole in the ground.

Try learning some physics Tim. I'm not here to teach you.

You are very obviously clueless.

Cold fill merely requires heating to get the temperature right and gives
better regulation of the temperature than hot & cold fill where the unit
is at the mercy of ambient temperature and long pipe runs.

Modern dual fill washing machines *are* using cold water since they
don't use enough to flush the hot pipe of standing cold water.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On 05/11/15 10:30, Capitol wrote:
Tim Streater wrote:
In article m,
dennis@home wrote:

On 04/11/2015 10:33, Capitol wrote:

IMO no cold
fill machine can ever work well. The laws of diffusion say so.

Do you care to explain what you mean by that?

Well he can't, can he. Because like WeatherLawyer he doesn't know his
arse from a hole in the ground.

Try learning some physics Tim. I'm not here to teach you.

Well thank god for that.

Since the laws of diffusion are completely irrelevant in a washing
machine that tumbles stuff around.


--
the biggest threat to humanity comes from socialism, which has utterly
diverted our attention away from what really matters to our existential
survival, to indulging in navel gazing and faux moral investigations
into what the world ought to be, whilst we fail utterly to deal with
what it actually is.

On 05/11/15 10:35, Bob Eager wrote:
On Thu, 05 Nov 2015 10:30:37 +0000, Capitol wrote:

Tim Streater wrote:
In article m,
dennis@home wrote:

On 04/11/2015 10:33, Capitol wrote:

IMO no cold fill machine can ever work well. The laws of diffusion
say so.

Do you care to explain what you mean by that?

Well he can't, can he. Because like WeatherLawyer he doesn't know his
arse from a hole in the ground.

Try learning some physics Tim. I'm not here to teach you.

Sorry, but that's the classic get-out from someone who doesn't really
have an argument at all.

+10001


--
the biggest threat to humanity comes from socialism, which has utterly
diverted our attention away from what really matters to our existential
survival, to indulging in navel gazing and faux moral investigations
into what the world ought to be, whilst we fail utterly to deal with
what it actually is.

dennis@home wrote:
On 04/11/2015 19:38, charles wrote:

8

I agree, washing machines now are designed to conform to the
climate change religion and have lost much of their washing
performance.

You must be using a cheap washer, the one I have washes better than the
one I had twenty years ago.

but, does it rinse as well as the old one?


Better, more rinses with less water per rinse works better.
The theory is absolutely correct, but the Which tests showed
otherwise in practice. The problem is with the much less water. Like
most theories there are boundary limits.