In listening to the reports of people without power for the last
couple of days am I alone in thinking that complaining about a
service with a 99.98% up-time reliability is a bit of a moan.

(Guessing that she's in her 50s, so she's had 5 days downtime in
20,000+ days.)

jgh

On 27/12/2013 17:54, wrote:
In listening to the reports of people without power for the last
couple of days am I alone in thinking that complaining about a
service with a 99.98% up-time reliability is a bit of a moan.

(Guessing that she's in her 50s, so she's had 5 days downtime in
20,000+ days.)

jgh

I agree that some people expectations are too high when there is such
widespread disruption.
Communications can always be improved , if you are prepared to pay, but
I suspect that a personal detailed phone/text service is only feasible
for small scale problems, anything larger has to be web based . With
smart phones accessing such information has become feasible as long as
the local Mobile network is not down.
Expecting accurate forecasting of time to fix is unrealistic , all that
can be provided with any accuracy is a "it wont be fixed before" time.

The more we rely on technology and get used to resilient services the
more we are unprepared and suffer when they do occasionally fail.
I see a market for "urban survival courses " !

I heard one woman complaining that she couldn't get through to talk to
anyone on the phone about the situation.

I think the powers that be knew about the fault and were busy deploting
their workers.

Many people don't know who to contact when it is a distribution fault
anyway.



--

DerbyBorn

I'd imagine the point is when its happened.
In them old days you would see bods going along all power line routes
checking trees and cutting them where there was a danger of them hitting the
lines. I don't think this is done or at least not done so often as it used
to be. t This is the main issue here. Obviously, the other issue is putting
sub stations etc, on areas formerly as flood plains.
The water damage aspect could be mitigated by better builds of course.
In the end its all trade offs against cost and profit and reliability in
extreme weather.
We are apparently notorious for being unprepared for anything, which is odd
considering we can have all four seasons in a day here.

Brian

--
From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active
wrote in message
...
In listening to the reports of people without power for the last
couple of days am I alone in thinking that complaining about a
service with a 99.98% up-time reliability is a bit of a moan.

(Guessing that she's in her 50s, so she's had 5 days downtime in
20,000+ days.)

jgh

scribbled...


In listening to the reports of people without power for the last
couple of days am I alone in thinking that complaining about a
service with a 99.98% up-time reliability is a bit of a moan.

(Guessing that she's in her 50s, so she's had 5 days downtime in
20,000+ days.)

jgh


The power companies have cut down on repair staff and repair equipment.
WTF is going to invest £millions of off-road vehicles for them to be
used for a couple of days each year?
These ****wits in big houses out in the country without power in Surrey
all assume they are 1st on the list to be reconnected, now they're
learning it doesn't work like that. The power companies will
concentrate on getting the areas with denser population back on first.
As for the ****s living about 2ft above the Medway in Yalding. WTF do
they expect living on a floodplain that's flooded regularly for
thousands of years!

On Fri, 27 Dec 2013 22:37:01 +0000, Tim Streater wrote:

I know that anyone here might find it astonishing, but a good
proportion of the population don't follow news or have much idea about
anything.

Not astonished at all, most of the population *are* as thick as two
short planks. But then dinner table conversation here tends to be on
subjects such as particle physics, faster than light travel theory,
cell biology, current space exploration, etc etc

We are apparently notorious for being unprepared for anything,
which is
odd considering we can have all four seasons in a day here.

That is the problem, the planks haven't put any thought at all in how
to cope with a simple power cut. So they just panic and blame
everyone else for *their* failure to prepare.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Fri, 27 Dec 2013 18:21:53 +0000, robert
wrote:

On 27/12/2013 17:54, wrote:
In listening to the reports of people without power for the last
couple of days

I agree that some people expectations are too high when there is such
widespread disruption.


The more we rely on technology and get used to resilient services the
more we are unprepared and suffer when they do occasionally fail.
I see a market for "urban survival courses " !

We could start a list of what simple things could be taught or even
put in a government booklet along the "Protect and Survive model"
though hopefully it should be advice that works.

I'll kick off,
1. keep a conventional wired phone available that plugs into the BT
socket.
You won't then need to call a radio phone in when your power is
restored and moan you couldn't contact anyone for 3 days because
your walk round the house ones become useless
2. A lot of people have a power source parked on their drive,
learn how to tap it to run the telly,radio laptop etc.
Sine wave inverters aren't that costly and while continuous use
might not be recommended an hour or so to check on things should
be possible. You might even run an oil or gas fired boiler if you
can power the electric controls at intervals and keep warm.

G.Harman

On Fri, 27 Dec 2013 18:21:53 +0000, robert wrote:

With smart phones accessing such information has become feasible as long
as the local Mobile network is not down.

Which in the event of a wide area power outage the mobile networks
are very likely to be down. Very few cells have much, if any, backup
power.

The more we rely on technology and get used to resilient services ...

The mobile networks are anything but resilient. If they were
resilient they would stay working short of the aerials/masts failing.
A simple loss of mains power should not be a problem for *any* half
decent resilient system.

... the more we are unprepared and suffer when they do occasionally
fail.

Agreed, I wonder how many people have a reliable, non-tech, backup
for their satnav, in the car where they are most likely to need it?
And of those how many would know how to use that backup?

--
Cheers
Dave.

In message , Brian Gaff
writes
I'd imagine the point is when its happened.
In them old days you would see bods going along all power line routes
checking trees and cutting them where there was a danger of them hitting the
lines. I don't think this is done or at least not done so often as it used
to be.
It is round here only they fly over in helicopters
snip
--
bert

On Fri, 27 Dec 2013 20:08:09 +0000, DerbyBorn wrote:

I heard one woman complaining that she couldn't get through to talk to
anyone on the phone about the situation.

I think the powers that be knew about the fault and were busy deploting
their workers.

Many people don't know who to contact when it is a distribution fault
anyway.

My power supplier has a website to show outages. Last time there was an
outage they did not show it since the outage "affected only a few
people". I told them that I wouldn't have to phone them if they updated
their website.
Naturally I have an emergency power supply so that I can run the
computer, broadband, phone, TV and lights. But I need to know if the
outage is going to be more than a few hours, then I'll crank up the
generator and maybe run an extension lead to my 80 year old neighbours.

"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
ll.co.uk...
On Fri, 27 Dec 2013 18:21:53 +0000, robert wrote:

With smart phones accessing such information has become feasible as long
as the local Mobile network is not down.

Which in the event of a wide area power outage the mobile networks
are very likely to be down. Very few cells have much, if any, backup
power.

The more we rely on technology and get used to resilient services ...

The mobile networks are anything but resilient. If they were
resilient they would stay working short of the aerials/masts failing.
A simple loss of mains power should not be a problem for *any* half
decent resilient system.

... the more we are unprepared and suffer when they do occasionally
fail.

Agreed, I wonder how many people have a reliable, non-tech, backup
for their satnav, in the car where they are most likely to need it?

I don't see that as much of a problem, essentially because
most don't actually use a satnav all that much of the time,
only really when they are in an area they aren't familiar with
or when they want to get to a specific location efficiently.

And I don't use mine anymore even for that, I use the smartphone instead.

And if the smartphone does die, there is usually
someone else in the car that has another.

And of those how many would know how to use that backup?

It isnt hard to work it out with a decent smartphone
or to get someone else to use theirs if yours dies.

MattyF wrote:

then I'll crank up the
generator and maybe run an extension lead to my 80 year old neighbours.

Euthanasia seems an extreme reaction to a power cut.

Bill

Dave Liquorice wrote:
Agreed, I wonder how many people have a reliable, non-tech, backup
for their satnav, in the car where they are most likely to need it?

satnav, wots one of them? I use something called "a map", backed
up with "my eyes".

jgh

wrote:
Dave Liquorice wrote:
Agreed, I wonder how many people have a reliable, non-tech, backup
for their satnav, in the car where they are most likely to need it?

satnav, wots one of them? I use something called "a map", backed
up with "my eyes".

You should be prosecuted for dangerous driving, trying to read a map and
drive at the same time. Those days are gone, thank goodness.

Bill

On 27/12/2013 23:53, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Fri, 27 Dec 2013 22:37:01 +0000, Tim Streater wrote:

I know that anyone here might find it astonishing, but a good
proportion of the population don't follow news or have much idea about
anything.

Not astonished at all, most of the population *are* as thick as two
short planks. But then dinner table conversation here tends to be on
subjects such as particle physics, faster than light travel theory,
cell biology, current space exploration, etc etc


.. . . deftly weaving in the epistemological concerns of structuration
theory (and others!) as the small hours approach . . .

We are apparently notorious for being unprepared for anything,
which is
odd considering we can have all four seasons in a day here.

That is the problem, the planks haven't put any thought at all in how
to cope with a simple power cut. So they just panic and blame
everyone else for *their* failure to prepare.


.. . . leading to the explanation of all things!!

Oh how the winter's evenings must fly by.

--
Cheers, Rob

There's a chap on the news at the moment who lives in a house-
on-stilts (garage and entrance stairway on ground floor, living
accommodation upstairs) and is complaining that all the stuff
he had in his garage was flooded and ruined and demands better
flood defences.

Err... the flood defences were building your your b****y house
with the accommodation up above flood level.

jgh

I don't think people ar thick. Its more to do with the expectation that the
state will provide. Its Health and safety and the success of the hype of
how advanced we are. In the end, its up to us as has been said. What often
frustrates me is that I am only not prepared due to a lack of suitable stuff
blind folk can operate etc, I do try to think of the what if xxx but am
frustrated by the one size fits all commercial world.

Brian

--
From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active
"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
ll.co.uk...
On Fri, 27 Dec 2013 22:37:01 +0000, Tim Streater wrote:

I know that anyone here might find it astonishing, but a good
proportion of the population don't follow news or have much idea about
anything.

Not astonished at all, most of the population *are* as thick as two
short planks. But then dinner table conversation here tends to be on
subjects such as particle physics, faster than light travel theory,
cell biology, current space exploration, etc etc

We are apparently notorious for being unprepared for anything,
which is
odd considering we can have all four seasons in a day here.

That is the problem, the planks haven't put any thought at all in how
to cope with a simple power cut. So they just panic and blame
everyone else for *their* failure to prepare.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On 27/12/2013 23:27, Artic wrote:
scribbled...


In listening to the reports of people without power for the last
couple of days am I alone in thinking that complaining about a
service with a 99.98% up-time reliability is a bit of a moan.

(Guessing that she's in her 50s, so she's had 5 days downtime in
20,000+ days.)

jgh


The power companies have cut down on repair staff and repair equipment.
WTF is going to invest £millions of off-road vehicles for them to be
used for a couple of days each year?
These ****wits in big houses out in the country without power in Surrey
all assume they are 1st on the list to be reconnected, now they're
learning it doesn't work like that. The power companies will
concentrate on getting the areas with denser population back on first.
As for the ****s living about 2ft above the Medway in Yalding. WTF do
they expect living on a floodplain that's flooded regularly for
thousands of years!

Living in, as was pointed out by a local councillor on Radio 4 earlier,
houses that were built over 100 years ago, so they have, presumab;y,
been flooded many times.

I've got a little sympathy for the owner of a trip boat on the Medway,
which somehow got trapped under another boat and is currently on the
bottom of the river waiting for another flood to lift the other boat
off, so the owner can then try to raise his boat. Or a crane to wander
by.... He did all *he* could to minimise his risk.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

On Friday 27 December 2013 23:53 Dave Liquorice wrote in uk.d-i-y:

On Fri, 27 Dec 2013 22:37:01 +0000, Tim Streater wrote:

I know that anyone here might find it astonishing, but a good
proportion of the population don't follow news or have much idea about
anything.

Not astonished at all, most of the population *are* as thick as two
short planks. But then dinner table conversation here tends to be on
subjects such as particle physics, faster than light travel theory,
cell biology, current space exploration, etc etc

I'm reading Mr Tompkins to my 8 and 10 year olds - they seem to get it which
is encouraging. My 10 year old spits in the general direction of One
Direction and agrees with me that Bieber is in fact the missing link...

We are apparently notorious for being unprepared for anything,
which is
odd considering we can have all four seasons in a day here.

That is the problem, the planks haven't put any thought at all in how
to cope with a simple power cut. So they just panic and blame
everyone else for *their* failure to prepare.

Have you noticed how few people even have a few candles stashed away. When I
was a kid we had a boxfull and that was before the 3 day week.

--
Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://squiddy.blog.dionic.net/

http://www.sensorly.com/ Crowd mapping of 2G/3G/4G mobile signal coverage

On Saturday 28 December 2013 00:10 Dave Liquorice wrote in uk.d-i-y:

On Fri, 27 Dec 2013 18:21:53 +0000, robert wrote:

With smart phones accessing such information has become feasible as long
as the local Mobile network is not down.

Which in the event of a wide area power outage the mobile networks
are very likely to be down. Very few cells have much, if any, backup
power.

The more we rely on technology and get used to resilient services ...

The mobile networks are anything but resilient. If they were
resilient they would stay working short of the aerials/masts failing.
A simple loss of mains power should not be a problem for *any* half
decent resilient system.

It is an extremely poor state of affairs considering how solid the wired
system is. This is why, despite using VOIP a lot, I will always have a POTS
line.

... the more we are unprepared and suffer when they do occasionally
fail.

Agreed, I wonder how many people have a reliable, non-tech, backup
for their satnav, in the car where they are most likely to need it?
And of those how many would know how to use that backup?

--
Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://squiddy.blog.dionic.net/

http://www.sensorly.com/ Crowd mapping of 2G/3G/4G mobile signal coverage

On Saturday 28 December 2013 08:16 wrote in uk.d-i-y:

There's a chap on the news at the moment who lives in a house-
on-stilts (garage and entrance stairway on ground floor, living
accommodation upstairs) and is complaining that all the stuff
he had in his garage was flooded and ruined and demands better
flood defences.

Err... the flood defences were building your your b****y house
with the accommodation up above flood level.

Duhhh... That is indeed the pattern around here for new builds.
Seems reasonable too given it is a) easy to relocate a car; b) the losses
are limited unless you operate a machine shop in your garage.

--
Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://squiddy.blog.dionic.net/

http://www.sensorly.com/ Crowd mapping of 2G/3G/4G mobile signal coverage

John Williamson scribbled...



The power companies have cut down on repair staff and repair equipment.
WTF is going to invest £millions of off-road vehicles for them to be
used for a couple of days each year?
These ****wits in big houses out in the country without power in Surrey
all assume they are 1st on the list to be reconnected, now they're
learning it doesn't work like that. The power companies will
concentrate on getting the areas with denser population back on first.
As for the ****s living about 2ft above the Medway in Yalding. WTF do
they expect living on a floodplain that's flooded regularly for
thousands of years!

Living in, as was pointed out by a local councillor on Radio 4 earlier,
houses that were built over 100 years ago, so they have, presumab;y,
been flooded many times.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/1013306.stm
Flooded 8 times in one year



I've got a little sympathy for the owner of a trip boat on the Medway,
which somehow got trapped under another boat and is currently on the
bottom of the river waiting for another flood to lift the other boat
off, so the owner can then try to raise his boat. Or a crane to wander
by.... He did all *he* could to minimise his risk.

Did he forget to lengthen his mooring ropes?

Dave Liquorice scribbled...


On Fri, 27 Dec 2013 18:21:53 +0000, robert wrote:

With smart phones accessing such information has become feasible as long
as the local Mobile network is not down.

Which in the event of a wide area power outage the mobile networks
are very likely to be down. Very few cells have much, if any, backup
power.

The more we rely on technology and get used to resilient services ...

The mobile networks are anything but resilient. If they were
resilient they would stay working short of the aerials/masts failing.
A simple loss of mains power should not be a problem for *any* half
decent resilient system.

... the more we are unprepared and suffer when they do occasionally
fail.

Agreed, I wonder how many people have a reliable, non-tech, backup
for their satnav, in the car where they are most likely to need it?
And of those how many would know how to use that backup?


Exactly why would someone be travelling to a unknown destination in such
bad weather?

On 28/12/2013 10:11, Tim Streater wrote:
3) Coupla boxes of candles

4) For those without gas, alternative cooking method, such as a small
campingaz portable cooker.

I have a "big" USB battery - enough oomph to recharge my phone several
times. Has built-in torch which (it claims) can run for over 600 hours.
Obviously cannot do both! But prefer that as a basic form of light to
candles with the dangers they represent.

Although we have gas, we have an electric cooker. Shame there is no way
of inexpensively and temporarily connecting a ring or two to allow cooking.

--
Rod

On 28/12/2013 10:16, Artic wrote:
Dave Liquorice scribbled...


On Fri, 27 Dec 2013 18:21:53 +0000, robert wrote:

With smart phones accessing such information has become feasible as long
as the local Mobile network is not down.

Which in the event of a wide area power outage the mobile networks
are very likely to be down. Very few cells have much, if any, backup
power.

The more we rely on technology and get used to resilient services ...

The mobile networks are anything but resilient. If they were
resilient they would stay working short of the aerials/masts failing.
A simple loss of mains power should not be a problem for *any* half
decent resilient system.

... the more we are unprepared and suffer when they do occasionally
fail.

Agreed, I wonder how many people have a reliable, non-tech, backup
for their satnav, in the car where they are most likely to need it?
And of those how many would know how to use that backup?


Exactly why would someone be travelling to a unknown destination in such
bad weather?

The destination might be well known - but the route not. A number of
years ago I needed to go from London area to mid-Wales - a route I know
very well, and both ends I know very well. The heavy rain was causing
such bad delays on the M40 that I went off across country. Satnav would
have been most useful - but I made do with my memory, signs and maps
because I did not then have satnav. Despite that I arrived many hours
ahead of a friend who decided to stay on the motorway at the same time.
Despite having to drive carefully to avoid abandoned vehicles along a
lot of the route.

--
Rod

On Sat, 28 Dec 2013 00:10:36 +0000 (GMT)
"Dave Liquorice" wrote:

On Fri, 27 Dec 2013 18:21:53 +0000, robert wrote:

With smart phones accessing such information has become feasible as
long as the local Mobile network is not down.

Which in the event of a wide area power outage the mobile networks
are very likely to be down. Very few cells have much, if any, backup
power.

The more we rely on technology and get used to resilient
services ...

The mobile networks are anything but resilient. If they were
resilient they would stay working short of the aerials/masts failing.
A simple loss of mains power should not be a problem for *any* half
decent resilient system.

... the more we are unprepared and suffer when they do occasionally
fail.

Agreed, I wonder how many people have a reliable, non-tech, backup
for their satnav, in the car where they are most likely to need it?
And of those how many would know how to use that backup?


You mean: a Map? Now there's a thought! It also requires the knowledge
of how to read it, of course.
I usually keep both a set of local maps and a National Atlas in my car.

Back in my days in the American Mid-West, standard in-car stuff in
winter was:
Space Blanket
Cups/Mugs
Matches
Newspaper
Chocolate bars/nut bars
Shovel
Bits of old carpet

And they were kept in the cabin, not in the boot.

I needed the space blanket once, when the Kentucky Freeway I was on was
snowed to a standstill. In eight hours, the traffic moved half a mile.

--
Davey.

On Sat, 28 Dec 2013 00:07:03 +0000, wrote:



I'll kick off,
1. keep a conventional wired phone available that plugs into the BT
socket.
You won't then need to call a radio phone in when your power is
restored and moan you couldn't contact anyone for 3 days because
your walk round the house ones become useless
2. A lot of people have a power source parked on their drive,
learn how to tap it to run the telly,radio laptop etc.
Sine wave inverters aren't that costly and while continuous use
might not be recommended an hour or so to check on things should
be possible. You might even run an oil or gas fired boiler if you
can power the electric controls at intervals and keep warm.

G.Harman

Well, we have kept a conventional phone which is used every time we
have a power cut to advise NEDL of same (3 times in last 6 weeks)
We do have candles aplenty.
We do have a two ring/grill camping stove and gas bottle to supply it.
We do have the ability to have open fires in two rooms and have some
fuel in store.
We also, generally, have a fully charged spare car battery - which is
one of two used for powering an electric fence and I'd really like to
be able to run the oil boiler and router and laptop sporadically
during power outages. I'm very interested in your point 2 concerning
an inverter.

The boiler specifies a 5A supply but I guess this is only at startup.
General running , I'd expect to be about 300W plus 100W for the
circulating pump. Router and laptop would be very minor. So, total
would be around 500W. Battery is 50-60Ah so, I'm guessing would run
things for , at best, a couple of hours. As we'd have to presume any
power outage could be a few days, it looks only practical for
recharging a mobile phone and running laptop/router and radio. These
things alone would be very useful.

Could I trouble you to point me to the sort of thing that might be
able to do this?
Thanks
Please reply to group - email address is not monitored
Ian

On Sat, 28 Dec 2013 13:49:15 +0000, wrote:

On Sat, 28 Dec 2013 00:07:03 +0000, wrote:



2. A lot of people have a power source parked on their drive,
learn how to tap it to run the telly,radio laptop etc.
Sine wave inverters aren't that costly and while continuous use
might not be recommended an hour or so to check on things should
be possible. You might even run an oil or gas fired boiler if you
can power the electric controls at intervals and keep warm.

G.Harman


We also, generally, have a fully charged spare car battery - which is
one of two used for powering an electric fence and I'd really like to
be able to run the oil boiler and router and laptop sporadically
during power outages. I'm very interested in your point 2 concerning
an inverter.

The boiler specifies a 5A supply but I guess this is only at startup.
General running , I'd expect to be about 300W plus 100W for the
circulating pump. Router and laptop would be very minor. So, total
would be around 500W. Battery is 50-60Ah so, I'm guessing would run
things for , at best, a couple of hours. As we'd have to presume any
power outage could be a few days, it looks only practical for
recharging a mobile phone and running laptop/router and radio. These
things alone would be very useful.

Could I trouble you to point me to the sort of thing that might be
able to do this?
Have a read of this,
http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Technica..._Inverters.pdf
As with anything you can buy cheap on Ebay but reliability and doing
what it claims it can do usually costs bit more.

Personally I was thinking along the lines of running the car engine
for the short period you may want to do a few things rather than run a
battery down too far,especially a car one.
For some people that is the only generator they have access to and in
many homes won't have room for much else.
Others may actually be better off with an actual generator if they
have room for it and to safely store the fuel as well.
But cheap ones aren't really designed to run for days. You really need
a well built diesel one for that.
That you have an electric fence suggests you may have a bit of land so
do have a tractor? you can get generators that run of the Power take
off but even if you need to charge a battery to run an inverter a
tractor would usually be a better tool than a car.
It's all about making the best of what you have.

G.Harman

On 28/12/2013 15:40, wrote:
On Sat, 28 Dec 2013 13:49:15 +0000, wrote:

On Sat, 28 Dec 2013 00:07:03 +0000, wrote:



2. A lot of people have a power source parked on their drive,
learn how to tap it to run the telly,radio laptop etc.
Sine wave inverters aren't that costly and while continuous use
might not be recommended an hour or so to check on things should
be possible. You might even run an oil or gas fired boiler if you
can power the electric controls at intervals and keep warm.

G.Harman


We also, generally, have a fully charged spare car battery - which is
one of two used for powering an electric fence and I'd really like to
be able to run the oil boiler and router and laptop sporadically
during power outages. I'm very interested in your point 2 concerning
an inverter.

The boiler specifies a 5A supply but I guess this is only at startup.
General running , I'd expect to be about 300W plus 100W for the
circulating pump. Router and laptop would be very minor. So, total
would be around 500W. Battery is 50-60Ah so, I'm guessing would run
things for , at best, a couple of hours. As we'd have to presume any
power outage could be a few days, it looks only practical for
recharging a mobile phone and running laptop/router and radio. These
things alone would be very useful.

Could I trouble you to point me to the sort of thing that might be
able to do this?
Have a read of this,
http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Technica..._Inverters.pdf
As with anything you can buy cheap on Ebay but reliability and doing
what it claims it can do usually costs bit more.

Personally I was thinking along the lines of running the car engine
for the short period you may want to do a few things rather than run a
battery down too far,especially a car one.
For some people that is the only generator they have access to and in
many homes won't have room for much else.
Others may actually be better off with an actual generator if they
have room for it and to safely store the fuel as well.
But cheap ones aren't really designed to run for days. You really need
a well built diesel one for that.
That you have an electric fence suggests you may have a bit of land so
do have a tractor? you can get generators that run of the Power take
off but even if you need to charge a battery to run an inverter a
tractor would usually be a better tool than a car.
It's all about making the best of what you have.

G.Harman

I've used a small inverter from the car(400watt) on 3 occasions when
we've had a power cut. I ran a small LED light and a laptop for a whole
evening by just running the car for 10 minutes or so every hour.

On 28/12/2013 10:16, Artic wrote:
Dave Liquorice scribbled...


On Fri, 27 Dec 2013 18:21:53 +0000, robert wrote:

With smart phones accessing such information has become feasible as long
as the local Mobile network is not down.

Which in the event of a wide area power outage the mobile networks
are very likely to be down. Very few cells have much, if any, backup
power.

The more we rely on technology and get used to resilient services ...

The mobile networks are anything but resilient. If they were
resilient they would stay working short of the aerials/masts failing.
A simple loss of mains power should not be a problem for *any* half
decent resilient system.

... the more we are unprepared and suffer when they do occasionally
fail.

Agreed, I wonder how many people have a reliable, non-tech, backup
for their satnav, in the car where they are most likely to need it?
And of those how many would know how to use that backup?


Exactly why would someone be travelling to a unknown destination in such
bad weather?


They may be travelling to known destination by an unknown route due to
roads being closed.
The satnav may know which roads are closed, the map wont.

"Tim Watts" wrote in message
...
On Friday 27 December 2013 23:53 Dave Liquorice wrote in uk.d-i-y:

On Fri, 27 Dec 2013 22:37:01 +0000, Tim Streater wrote:

I know that anyone here might find it astonishing, but a good
proportion of the population don't follow news or have much idea about
anything.

Not astonished at all, most of the population *are* as thick as two
short planks. But then dinner table conversation here tends to be on
subjects such as particle physics, faster than light travel theory,
cell biology, current space exploration, etc etc

I'm reading Mr Tompkins to my 8 and 10 year olds - they seem to get it
which
is encouraging. My 10 year old spits in the general direction of One
Direction and agrees with me that Bieber is in fact the missing link...

We are apparently notorious for being unprepared for anything,
which is
odd considering we can have all four seasons in a day here.

That is the problem, the planks haven't put any thought at all in how
to cope with a simple power cut. So they just panic and blame
everyone else for *their* failure to prepare.

Have you noticed how few people even have a few candles stashed away.

I find that rechargeable torches are a hell of a lot more useful.

I've got a generator too for the more important stuff than
light and that works fine if the power failure lasts longer
than the 8 hours the rechargeable lights will last for.

When I was a kid we had a boxfull and that was before the 3 day week.

And then the world moved on just a tad and those
of use who aren't actually desperate povs can afford
a cheap generator and get to do a lot better than
with a box of candles.

"Tim Watts" wrote in message
...
On Saturday 28 December 2013 00:10 Dave Liquorice wrote in uk.d-i-y:

On Fri, 27 Dec 2013 18:21:53 +0000, robert wrote:

With smart phones accessing such information has become feasible as long
as the local Mobile network is not down.

Which in the event of a wide area power outage the mobile networks
are very likely to be down. Very few cells have much, if any, backup
power.

The more we rely on technology and get used to resilient services ...

The mobile networks are anything but resilient. If they were
resilient they would stay working short of the aerials/masts failing.
A simple loss of mains power should not be a problem for *any* half
decent resilient system.

It is an extremely poor state of affairs considering how solid the wired
system
is. This is why, despite using VOIP a lot, I will always have a POTS line.

It isnt why I still have a POTS line. I have it because
I can't get a naked DSL line here, no POTS service.

... the more we are unprepared and suffer when they do occasionally
fail.

Agreed, I wonder how many people have a reliable, non-tech, backup
for their satnav, in the car where they are most likely to need it?
And of those how many would know how to use that backup?

That is the problem, the planks haven't put any thought at all in how
to cope with a simple power cut. So they just panic and blame
everyone else for *their* failure to prepare.

Have you noticed how few people even have a few candles stashed away.

I find that rechargeable torches are a hell of a lot more useful.

I've got a generator too for the more important stuff than
light and that works fine if the power failure lasts longer
than the 8 hours the rechargeable lights will last for.

When I was a kid we had a boxfull and that was before the 3 day week.

And then the world moved on just a tad and those
of use who aren't actually desperate povs can afford
a cheap generator and get to do a lot better than
with a box of candles.


I've got one of those power packs that start the car instead of a jump start(you never know).
My point being, that it has a built in 230v mains inverter and a variety
of sockets (USB etc). I keep it fully charged up(obviously) and in the
event of a power cut it would give us some light(built into the unit)
and run a few low powered mains devices for a few hours.
Very handy. Only cost £70, good value.
Oh! and it has a built in compressor to blow up tyres etc.

And they were kept in the cabin, not in the boot.

I keep mine in the boot, but then I can open the boot
from the passenger compartment. Once had to enter that
way when I found I was blocked in so tight I couldn't
open the doors.

jgh

dennis wrote:
The satnav may know which roads are closed, the map wont.

How does a satnav know that roads are closed? A satnav is
simply a map that knows dynamically where on the map it is,
it isn't psychic.

jgh

On 28/12/2013 20:39, wrote:
dennis wrote:
The satnav may know which roads are closed, the map wont.

How does a satnav know that roads are closed? A satnav is
simply a map that knows dynamically where on the map it is,
it isn't psychic.

jgh

At least two of the satnavs I use are able to re-route on the basis of
dynamically supplied information. Information about the traffic (speed,
density, etc.) is fed into the routing and, if they identify an
alternative route that should save more than some threshold time, they
re-route. Amazingly effective they can be.

--
Rod

On 28/12/2013 20:39, wrote:
dennis wrote:
The satnav may know which roads are closed, the map wont.

How does a satnav know that roads are closed? A satnav is
simply a map that knows dynamically where on the map it is,
it isn't psychic.

Some satnavs have a receiver for live(ish) traffic and road information.
It's normally piggybacked onto classic FM, IIRC.


--
Tciao for Now!

John.

On Saturday 28 December 2013 20:52 John Williamson wrote in uk.d-i-y:

On 28/12/2013 20:39, wrote:
dennis wrote:
The satnav may know which roads are closed, the map wont.

How does a satnav know that roads are closed? A satnav is
simply a map that knows dynamically where on the map it is,
it isn't psychic.

Some satnavs have a receiver for live(ish) traffic and road information.
It's normally piggybacked onto classic FM, IIRC.



Or it's running on a smartphone with 3G.
--
Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://squiddy.blog.dionic.net/

http://www.sensorly.com/ Crowd mapping of 2G/3G/4G mobile signal coverage

Davey scribbled...



Back in my days in the American Mid-West, standard in-car stuff in
winter was:
Space Blanket
Cups/Mugs
Matches
Newspaper
Chocolate bars/nut bars
Shovel
Bits of old carpet



Wot no guns ?

On 28/12/2013 20:52, John Williamson wrote:
On 28/12/2013 20:39, wrote:
dennis wrote:
The satnav may know which roads are closed, the map wont.

How does a satnav know that roads are closed? A satnav is
simply a map that knows dynamically where on the map it is,
it isn't psychic.

Some satnavs have a receiver for live(ish) traffic and road information.
It's normally piggybacked onto classic FM, IIRC.



Mine runs a data connection and is pretty good at knowing what the
traffic is like and where the hold ups are.

It gets data from the road sensors and from other satnav users out on
the road.