In listening to the reports of people without power for the last
couple of days am I alone in thinking that complaining about a
service with a 99.98% up-time reliability is a bit of a moan.

(Guessing that she's in her 50s, so she's had 5 days downtime in
20,000+ days.)

jgh

On 27/12/2013 17:54, wrote:
In listening to the reports of people without power for the last
couple of days am I alone in thinking that complaining about a
service with a 99.98% up-time reliability is a bit of a moan.

(Guessing that she's in her 50s, so she's had 5 days downtime in
20,000+ days.)

jgh

I agree that some people expectations are too high when there is such
widespread disruption.
Communications can always be improved , if you are prepared to pay, but
I suspect that a personal detailed phone/text service is only feasible
for small scale problems, anything larger has to be web based . With
smart phones accessing such information has become feasible as long as
the local Mobile network is not down.
Expecting accurate forecasting of time to fix is unrealistic , all that
can be provided with any accuracy is a "it wont be fixed before" time.

The more we rely on technology and get used to resilient services the
more we are unprepared and suffer when they do occasionally fail.
I see a market for "urban survival courses " !

I heard one woman complaining that she couldn't get through to talk to
anyone on the phone about the situation.

I think the powers that be knew about the fault and were busy deploting
their workers.

Many people don't know who to contact when it is a distribution fault
anyway.



--

DerbyBorn

On Fri, 27 Dec 2013 20:08:09 +0000, DerbyBorn wrote:

I heard one woman complaining that she couldn't get through to talk to
anyone on the phone about the situation.

I think the powers that be knew about the fault and were busy deploting
their workers.

Many people don't know who to contact when it is a distribution fault
anyway.

My power supplier has a website to show outages. Last time there was an
outage they did not show it since the outage "affected only a few
people". I told them that I wouldn't have to phone them if they updated
their website.
Naturally I have an emergency power supply so that I can run the
computer, broadband, phone, TV and lights. But I need to know if the
outage is going to be more than a few hours, then I'll crank up the
generator and maybe run an extension lead to my 80 year old neighbours.

MattyF wrote:

then I'll crank up the
generator and maybe run an extension lead to my 80 year old neighbours.

Euthanasia seems an extreme reaction to a power cut.

Bill

On Fri, 27 Dec 2013 18:21:53 +0000, robert
wrote:

On 27/12/2013 17:54, wrote:
In listening to the reports of people without power for the last
couple of days

I agree that some people expectations are too high when there is such
widespread disruption.


The more we rely on technology and get used to resilient services the
more we are unprepared and suffer when they do occasionally fail.
I see a market for "urban survival courses " !

We could start a list of what simple things could be taught or even
put in a government booklet along the "Protect and Survive model"
though hopefully it should be advice that works.

I'll kick off,
1. keep a conventional wired phone available that plugs into the BT
socket.
You won't then need to call a radio phone in when your power is
restored and moan you couldn't contact anyone for 3 days because
your walk round the house ones become useless
2. A lot of people have a power source parked on their drive,
learn how to tap it to run the telly,radio laptop etc.
Sine wave inverters aren't that costly and while continuous use
might not be recommended an hour or so to check on things should
be possible. You might even run an oil or gas fired boiler if you
can power the electric controls at intervals and keep warm.

G.Harman

On Sat, 28 Dec 2013 00:07:03 +0000, wrote:



I'll kick off,
1. keep a conventional wired phone available that plugs into the BT
socket.
You won't then need to call a radio phone in when your power is
restored and moan you couldn't contact anyone for 3 days because
your walk round the house ones become useless
2. A lot of people have a power source parked on their drive,
learn how to tap it to run the telly,radio laptop etc.
Sine wave inverters aren't that costly and while continuous use
might not be recommended an hour or so to check on things should
be possible. You might even run an oil or gas fired boiler if you
can power the electric controls at intervals and keep warm.

G.Harman

Well, we have kept a conventional phone which is used every time we
have a power cut to advise NEDL of same (3 times in last 6 weeks)
We do have candles aplenty.
We do have a two ring/grill camping stove and gas bottle to supply it.
We do have the ability to have open fires in two rooms and have some
fuel in store.
We also, generally, have a fully charged spare car battery - which is
one of two used for powering an electric fence and I'd really like to
be able to run the oil boiler and router and laptop sporadically
during power outages. I'm very interested in your point 2 concerning
an inverter.

The boiler specifies a 5A supply but I guess this is only at startup.
General running , I'd expect to be about 300W plus 100W for the
circulating pump. Router and laptop would be very minor. So, total
would be around 500W. Battery is 50-60Ah so, I'm guessing would run
things for , at best, a couple of hours. As we'd have to presume any
power outage could be a few days, it looks only practical for
recharging a mobile phone and running laptop/router and radio. These
things alone would be very useful.

Could I trouble you to point me to the sort of thing that might be
able to do this?
Thanks
Please reply to group - email address is not monitored
Ian

On Sat, 28 Dec 2013 13:49:15 +0000, wrote:

On Sat, 28 Dec 2013 00:07:03 +0000, wrote:



2. A lot of people have a power source parked on their drive,
learn how to tap it to run the telly,radio laptop etc.
Sine wave inverters aren't that costly and while continuous use
might not be recommended an hour or so to check on things should
be possible. You might even run an oil or gas fired boiler if you
can power the electric controls at intervals and keep warm.

G.Harman


We also, generally, have a fully charged spare car battery - which is
one of two used for powering an electric fence and I'd really like to
be able to run the oil boiler and router and laptop sporadically
during power outages. I'm very interested in your point 2 concerning
an inverter.

The boiler specifies a 5A supply but I guess this is only at startup.
General running , I'd expect to be about 300W plus 100W for the
circulating pump. Router and laptop would be very minor. So, total
would be around 500W. Battery is 50-60Ah so, I'm guessing would run
things for , at best, a couple of hours. As we'd have to presume any
power outage could be a few days, it looks only practical for
recharging a mobile phone and running laptop/router and radio. These
things alone would be very useful.

Could I trouble you to point me to the sort of thing that might be
able to do this?
Have a read of this,
http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Technica..._Inverters.pdf
As with anything you can buy cheap on Ebay but reliability and doing
what it claims it can do usually costs bit more.

Personally I was thinking along the lines of running the car engine
for the short period you may want to do a few things rather than run a
battery down too far,especially a car one.
For some people that is the only generator they have access to and in
many homes won't have room for much else.
Others may actually be better off with an actual generator if they
have room for it and to safely store the fuel as well.
But cheap ones aren't really designed to run for days. You really need
a well built diesel one for that.
That you have an electric fence suggests you may have a bit of land so
do have a tractor? you can get generators that run of the Power take
off but even if you need to charge a battery to run an inverter a
tractor would usually be a better tool than a car.
It's all about making the best of what you have.

G.Harman

On 28/12/2013 15:40, wrote:
On Sat, 28 Dec 2013 13:49:15 +0000, wrote:

On Sat, 28 Dec 2013 00:07:03 +0000, wrote:



2. A lot of people have a power source parked on their drive,
learn how to tap it to run the telly,radio laptop etc.
Sine wave inverters aren't that costly and while continuous use
might not be recommended an hour or so to check on things should
be possible. You might even run an oil or gas fired boiler if you
can power the electric controls at intervals and keep warm.

G.Harman


We also, generally, have a fully charged spare car battery - which is
one of two used for powering an electric fence and I'd really like to
be able to run the oil boiler and router and laptop sporadically
during power outages. I'm very interested in your point 2 concerning
an inverter.

The boiler specifies a 5A supply but I guess this is only at startup.
General running , I'd expect to be about 300W plus 100W for the
circulating pump. Router and laptop would be very minor. So, total
would be around 500W. Battery is 50-60Ah so, I'm guessing would run
things for , at best, a couple of hours. As we'd have to presume any
power outage could be a few days, it looks only practical for
recharging a mobile phone and running laptop/router and radio. These
things alone would be very useful.

Could I trouble you to point me to the sort of thing that might be
able to do this?
Have a read of this,
http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Technica..._Inverters.pdf
As with anything you can buy cheap on Ebay but reliability and doing
what it claims it can do usually costs bit more.

Personally I was thinking along the lines of running the car engine
for the short period you may want to do a few things rather than run a
battery down too far,especially a car one.
For some people that is the only generator they have access to and in
many homes won't have room for much else.
Others may actually be better off with an actual generator if they
have room for it and to safely store the fuel as well.
But cheap ones aren't really designed to run for days. You really need
a well built diesel one for that.
That you have an electric fence suggests you may have a bit of land so
do have a tractor? you can get generators that run of the Power take
off but even if you need to charge a battery to run an inverter a
tractor would usually be a better tool than a car.
It's all about making the best of what you have.

G.Harman

I've used a small inverter from the car(400watt) on 3 occasions when
we've had a power cut. I ran a small LED light and a laptop for a whole
evening by just running the car for 10 minutes or so every hour.

On Sat, 28 Dec 2013 15:40:34 +0000, wrote:


Have a read of this,
http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Technica..._Inverters.pdf
As with anything you can buy cheap on Ebay but reliability and doing
what it claims it can do usually costs bit more.

Personally I was thinking along the lines of running the car engine
for the short period you may want to do a few things rather than run a
battery down too far,especially a car one.
For some people that is the only generator they have access to and in
many homes won't have room for much else.
Others may actually be better off with an actual generator if they
have room for it and to safely store the fuel as well.
But cheap ones aren't really designed to run for days. You really need
a well built diesel one for that.
That you have an electric fence suggests you may have a bit of land so
do have a tractor? you can get generators that run of the Power take
off but even if you need to charge a battery to run an inverter a
tractor would usually be a better tool than a car.
It's all about making the best of what you have.

G.Harman

Thanks DD-e, the link is very useful. No, we don't have a
tractor...electric fence is just to slow down the actions of the
equine fence demolishers.
It looks like an investment in a largish leisure battery or two (which
were recommended for the fencing unit) to replace the old vehicle
batteries currently put to this use, and a moderate inverter might be
justifiable.
I don't think 'the chancellor' would authorise the tractor on the
basis of keeping her laptop going in a power cut!
Please reply to group - email address is not monitored
Ian

On 28/12/2013 10:11, Tim Streater wrote:
3) Coupla boxes of candles

4) For those without gas, alternative cooking method, such as a small
campingaz portable cooker.

I have a "big" USB battery - enough oomph to recharge my phone several
times. Has built-in torch which (it claims) can run for over 600 hours.
Obviously cannot do both! But prefer that as a basic form of light to
candles with the dangers they represent.

Although we have gas, we have an electric cooker. Shame there is no way
of inexpensively and temporarily connecting a ring or two to allow cooking.

--
Rod

On Sat, 28 Dec 2013 10:27:41 +0000, polygonum wrote:

Although we have gas, we have an electric cooker. Shame there is no way
of inexpensively and temporarily connecting a ring or two to allow
cooking.

Electric cooker to genset or portable gas ring to mains gas?

I sort of tempted to say use a bayonet cooker hose to connect a gas
ring to the mains but I don't think it is allowed to leave the
bayonet disconnected as the norm as it might leak or have the
actuating button pushed accidentally. A locked off, in the off
position, isolation valve before the bayonet mitigates most (all?)
those problems though.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Fri, 27 Dec 2013 18:21:53 +0000, robert wrote:

With smart phones accessing such information has become feasible as long
as the local Mobile network is not down.

Which in the event of a wide area power outage the mobile networks
are very likely to be down. Very few cells have much, if any, backup
power.

The more we rely on technology and get used to resilient services ...

The mobile networks are anything but resilient. If they were
resilient they would stay working short of the aerials/masts failing.
A simple loss of mains power should not be a problem for *any* half
decent resilient system.

... the more we are unprepared and suffer when they do occasionally
fail.

Agreed, I wonder how many people have a reliable, non-tech, backup
for their satnav, in the car where they are most likely to need it?
And of those how many would know how to use that backup?

--
Cheers
Dave.

"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
ll.co.uk...
On Fri, 27 Dec 2013 18:21:53 +0000, robert wrote:

With smart phones accessing such information has become feasible as long
as the local Mobile network is not down.

Which in the event of a wide area power outage the mobile networks
are very likely to be down. Very few cells have much, if any, backup
power.

The more we rely on technology and get used to resilient services ...

The mobile networks are anything but resilient. If they were
resilient they would stay working short of the aerials/masts failing.
A simple loss of mains power should not be a problem for *any* half
decent resilient system.

... the more we are unprepared and suffer when they do occasionally
fail.

Agreed, I wonder how many people have a reliable, non-tech, backup
for their satnav, in the car where they are most likely to need it?

I don't see that as much of a problem, essentially because
most don't actually use a satnav all that much of the time,
only really when they are in an area they aren't familiar with
or when they want to get to a specific location efficiently.

And I don't use mine anymore even for that, I use the smartphone instead.

And if the smartphone does die, there is usually
someone else in the car that has another.

And of those how many would know how to use that backup?

It isnt hard to work it out with a decent smartphone
or to get someone else to use theirs if yours dies.

On Sat, 28 Dec 2013 12:54:54 +1100, Rod Speed wrote:

Agreed, I wonder how many people have a reliable, non-tech, backup
for their satnav, in the car where they are most likely to need
it?

I don't see that as much of a problem, essentially because
most don't actually use a satnav all that much of the time,

Hum, so why do the vast majority of cars I see when driving around
the country have a satnav suckered to the windscreen?

And I don't use mine anymore even for that, I use the smartphone
instead.

And if the smartphone does die, there is usually
someone else in the car that has another.

And will they work without a data connection to download the relevant
bit of map and I have sneaky susoiscion that the route planning is
done in "the cloud" as well, not by the phone.

Maybe you are going to collect friends/relatives that have been
flooded out, along with their car, the local power is out and thus
the mobile networks...

--
Cheers
Dave.

On 28/12/2013 22:43, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Sat, 28 Dec 2013 12:54:54 +1100, Rod Speed wrote:

Agreed, I wonder how many people have a reliable, non-tech, backup
for their satnav, in the car where they are most likely to need
it?

I don't see that as much of a problem, essentially because
most don't actually use a satnav all that much of the time,

Hum, so why do the vast majority of cars I see when driving around
the country have a satnav suckered to the windscreen?

And I don't use mine anymore even for that, I use the smartphone
instead.

And if the smartphone does die, there is usually
someone else in the car that has another.

And will they work without a data connection to download the relevant
bit of map and I have sneaky susoiscion that the route planning is
done in "the cloud" as well, not by the phone.

Maybe you are going to collect friends/relatives that have been
flooded out, along with their car, the local power is out and thus
the mobile networks...

I have satnav across two phones and a tablet - some are online, some
have downloaded maps. Granted they will not get up-to-date road
conditions if there is no signal, but at least some will navigate
perfectly well within that limitation.

--
Rod

Dave Liquorice wrote
Rod Speed wrote

Agreed, I wonder how many people have a reliable, non-tech, backup
for their satnav, in the car where they are most likely to need it?

I don't see that as much of a problem, essentially because
most don't actually use a satnav all that much of the time,

Hum, so why do the vast majority of cars I see when driving
around the country have a satnav suckered to the windscreen?

For the odd occasion when you do need to go where you arent
familiar with.

And I don't use mine anymore even for
that, I use the smartphone instead.

And if the smartphone does die, there is usually
someone else in the car that has another.

And will they work without a data connection to download
the relevant bit of map and I have sneaky susoiscion that the
route planning is done in "the cloud" as well, not by the phone.

It is very unlikely that the cell service will
die at the same time the phone does.

Maybe you are going to collect friends/relatives that
have been flooded out, along with their car, the local
power is out and thus the mobile networks...

In that case I will have included both the satnavs in the car.

"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
ll.co.uk...
On Sat, 28 Dec 2013 12:54:54 +1100, Rod Speed wrote:

Agreed, I wonder how many people have a reliable, non-tech, backup
for their satnav, in the car where they are most likely to need
it?

I don't see that as much of a problem, essentially because
most don't actually use a satnav all that much of the time,

Hum, so why do the vast majority of cars I see when driving around
the country have a satnav suckered to the windscreen?

And I don't use mine anymore even for that, I use the smartphone
instead.

And if the smartphone does die, there is usually
someone else in the car that has another.

And will they work without a data connection to download the relevant
bit of map and I have sneaky susoiscion that the route planning is
done in "the cloud" as well, not by the phone.

Maybe you are going to collect friends/relatives that have been
flooded out, along with their car, the local power is out and thus
the mobile networks...

Don't forget, Dave. You're typing to 'our Wodney'
http://blog.intuyuconsulting.com.au/...1/05/hovel.jpg



---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
http://www.avast.com

On 28/12/2013 22:43, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Sat, 28 Dec 2013 12:54:54 +1100, Rod Speed wrote:

Agreed, I wonder how many people have a reliable, non-tech, backup
for their satnav, in the car where they are most likely to need
it?

I don't see that as much of a problem, essentially because
most don't actually use a satnav all that much of the time,

Hum, so why do the vast majority of cars I see when driving around
the country have a satnav suckered to the windscreen?

Mone's almost always on at work in the coach for an up to date ETA and
for unexpected diversions.

And I don't use mine anymore even for that, I use the smartphone
instead.

And if the smartphone does die, there is usually
someone else in the car that has another.

And will they work without a data connection to download the relevant
bit of map and I have sneaky susoiscion that the route planning is
done in "the cloud" as well, not by the phone.

The only satnav system that I know of that does route planning and
stores maps "in the cloud" is Google maps.

All the others, Tomtom, Garmin, Navman, Mapfactor and so on, use locally
stored maps and calculation, with the only use for the GPS receiver
being to calculate the current location, with an optional data
connection either via FM radio or 3G for traffic data, if that's been
enabled. Even the open source ones hold the maps and do the calculations
locally.

I have run Tomtom, Navgon, Mapfactor and a FOSS satnav system on a
couple of mobile phones, and the only data connection needed is for the
initial map and program download, and updates to the satellite positions
and map data as it changes. About once a week for a few minutes.

The whole of Europe streetmap totals about 2 Gbytes, and the UK is a few
hundred megabytes. Using the Open Source maps. you can fit the whole
world in less than 10 Gbytes

Maybe you are going to collect friends/relatives that have been
flooded out, along with their car, the local power is out and thus
the mobile networks...

That would, in my experience, only upset someone using Google Maps to
navigate, and even then, it would depend on the caching arranement in
the phone, as some are set to cache the data tiles containing the whole
of the calculated route when it's first calculated.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

Dave Liquorice wrote:
Agreed, I wonder how many people have a reliable, non-tech, backup
for their satnav, in the car where they are most likely to need it?

satnav, wots one of them? I use something called "a map", backed
up with "my eyes".

jgh

wrote:
Dave Liquorice wrote:
Agreed, I wonder how many people have a reliable, non-tech, backup
for their satnav, in the car where they are most likely to need it?

satnav, wots one of them? I use something called "a map", backed
up with "my eyes".

You should be prosecuted for dangerous driving, trying to read a map and
drive at the same time. Those days are gone, thank goodness.

Bill

There's a chap on the news at the moment who lives in a house-
on-stilts (garage and entrance stairway on ground floor, living
accommodation upstairs) and is complaining that all the stuff
he had in his garage was flooded and ruined and demands better
flood defences.

Err... the flood defences were building your your b****y house
with the accommodation up above flood level.

jgh

On Saturday 28 December 2013 00:10 Dave Liquorice wrote in uk.d-i-y:

On Fri, 27 Dec 2013 18:21:53 +0000, robert wrote:

With smart phones accessing such information has become feasible as long
as the local Mobile network is not down.

Which in the event of a wide area power outage the mobile networks
are very likely to be down. Very few cells have much, if any, backup
power.

The more we rely on technology and get used to resilient services ...

The mobile networks are anything but resilient. If they were
resilient they would stay working short of the aerials/masts failing.
A simple loss of mains power should not be a problem for *any* half
decent resilient system.

It is an extremely poor state of affairs considering how solid the wired
system is. This is why, despite using VOIP a lot, I will always have a POTS
line.

... the more we are unprepared and suffer when they do occasionally
fail.

Agreed, I wonder how many people have a reliable, non-tech, backup
for their satnav, in the car where they are most likely to need it?
And of those how many would know how to use that backup?

--
Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://squiddy.blog.dionic.net/

http://www.sensorly.com/ Crowd mapping of 2G/3G/4G mobile signal coverage

"Tim Watts" wrote in message
...
On Saturday 28 December 2013 00:10 Dave Liquorice wrote in uk.d-i-y:

On Fri, 27 Dec 2013 18:21:53 +0000, robert wrote:

With smart phones accessing such information has become feasible as long
as the local Mobile network is not down.

Which in the event of a wide area power outage the mobile networks
are very likely to be down. Very few cells have much, if any, backup
power.

The more we rely on technology and get used to resilient services ...

The mobile networks are anything but resilient. If they were
resilient they would stay working short of the aerials/masts failing.
A simple loss of mains power should not be a problem for *any* half
decent resilient system.

It is an extremely poor state of affairs considering how solid the wired
system
is. This is why, despite using VOIP a lot, I will always have a POTS line.

It isnt why I still have a POTS line. I have it because
I can't get a naked DSL line here, no POTS service.

... the more we are unprepared and suffer when they do occasionally
fail.

Agreed, I wonder how many people have a reliable, non-tech, backup
for their satnav, in the car where they are most likely to need it?
And of those how many would know how to use that backup?

In article ,
Tim Watts wrote:
On Saturday 28 December 2013 00:10 Dave Liquorice wrote in uk.d-i-y:

On Fri, 27 Dec 2013 18:21:53 +0000, robert wrote:

With smart phones accessing such information has become feasible as
long as the local Mobile network is not down.

Which in the event of a wide area power outage the mobile networks
are very likely to be down. Very few cells have much, if any, backup
power.

The more we rely on technology and get used to resilient services ...

The mobile networks are anything but resilient. If they were
resilient they would stay working short of the aerials/masts failing.
A simple loss of mains power should not be a problem for *any* half
decent resilient system.

It is an extremely poor state of affairs considering how solid the wired
system is. This is why, despite using VOIP a lot, I will always have a
POTS line.

ours went down on Dec 16th and was restored today. Fault - affecting a
large number of people - was caused by BT work on High Speed broadband.
And, of course my mobile phone only works in certain parts of the house -
mostly.

--
From KT24

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.18

On Sun, 29 Dec 2013 15:59:39 +0000 (GMT), charles wrote:

ours went down on Dec 16th and was restored today. Fault - affecting a
large number of people - was caused by BT work on High Speed broadband.

I wonder what they would have done if you had Total Care on your
line? Fix yours as a one off priority within 24 or just leave yours
off till they fix everyone elses.

When I had an ISDN line, they fixed a fault on it almost before I'd
noticed it had failed, linecard in the exchange shared by a line at
the local bank.

--
Cheers
Dave.

Dave Liquorice scribbled...


On Fri, 27 Dec 2013 18:21:53 +0000, robert wrote:

With smart phones accessing such information has become feasible as long
as the local Mobile network is not down.

Which in the event of a wide area power outage the mobile networks
are very likely to be down. Very few cells have much, if any, backup
power.

The more we rely on technology and get used to resilient services ...

The mobile networks are anything but resilient. If they were
resilient they would stay working short of the aerials/masts failing.
A simple loss of mains power should not be a problem for *any* half
decent resilient system.

... the more we are unprepared and suffer when they do occasionally
fail.

Agreed, I wonder how many people have a reliable, non-tech, backup
for their satnav, in the car where they are most likely to need it?
And of those how many would know how to use that backup?


Exactly why would someone be travelling to a unknown destination in such
bad weather?

On 28/12/2013 10:16, Artic wrote:
Dave Liquorice scribbled...


On Fri, 27 Dec 2013 18:21:53 +0000, robert wrote:

With smart phones accessing such information has become feasible as long
as the local Mobile network is not down.

Which in the event of a wide area power outage the mobile networks
are very likely to be down. Very few cells have much, if any, backup
power.

The more we rely on technology and get used to resilient services ...

The mobile networks are anything but resilient. If they were
resilient they would stay working short of the aerials/masts failing.
A simple loss of mains power should not be a problem for *any* half
decent resilient system.

... the more we are unprepared and suffer when they do occasionally
fail.

Agreed, I wonder how many people have a reliable, non-tech, backup
for their satnav, in the car where they are most likely to need it?
And of those how many would know how to use that backup?


Exactly why would someone be travelling to a unknown destination in such
bad weather?

The destination might be well known - but the route not. A number of
years ago I needed to go from London area to mid-Wales - a route I know
very well, and both ends I know very well. The heavy rain was causing
such bad delays on the M40 that I went off across country. Satnav would
have been most useful - but I made do with my memory, signs and maps
because I did not then have satnav. Despite that I arrived many hours
ahead of a friend who decided to stay on the motorway at the same time.
Despite having to drive carefully to avoid abandoned vehicles along a
lot of the route.

--
Rod

Huge wrote
Jethro_uk wrote

Indeed, this (for me) is the greatest feature of sat navs ... the ability
to dynamically recalculate a route in the event of whatever. The
only catch is, you need to watch it carefully to make sure it has really
given up on the original route it had in mind ....

The built-in in my Disco III cheerfully and swiftly recalculates, but my
Tomtom spends ages trying to get you back to the original route ...

My TomTom 710 doesn’t.

On 28/12/2013 10:16, Artic wrote:
Dave Liquorice scribbled...


On Fri, 27 Dec 2013 18:21:53 +0000, robert wrote:

With smart phones accessing such information has become feasible as long
as the local Mobile network is not down.

Which in the event of a wide area power outage the mobile networks
are very likely to be down. Very few cells have much, if any, backup
power.

The more we rely on technology and get used to resilient services ...

The mobile networks are anything but resilient. If they were
resilient they would stay working short of the aerials/masts failing.
A simple loss of mains power should not be a problem for *any* half
decent resilient system.

... the more we are unprepared and suffer when they do occasionally
fail.

Agreed, I wonder how many people have a reliable, non-tech, backup
for their satnav, in the car where they are most likely to need it?
And of those how many would know how to use that backup?


Exactly why would someone be travelling to a unknown destination in such
bad weather?


They may be travelling to known destination by an unknown route due to
roads being closed.
The satnav may know which roads are closed, the map wont.

dennis wrote:
The satnav may know which roads are closed, the map wont.

How does a satnav know that roads are closed? A satnav is
simply a map that knows dynamically where on the map it is,
it isn't psychic.

jgh

On Sat, 28 Dec 2013 00:10:36 +0000 (GMT)
"Dave Liquorice" wrote:

On Fri, 27 Dec 2013 18:21:53 +0000, robert wrote:

With smart phones accessing such information has become feasible as
long as the local Mobile network is not down.

Which in the event of a wide area power outage the mobile networks
are very likely to be down. Very few cells have much, if any, backup
power.

The more we rely on technology and get used to resilient
services ...

The mobile networks are anything but resilient. If they were
resilient they would stay working short of the aerials/masts failing.
A simple loss of mains power should not be a problem for *any* half
decent resilient system.

... the more we are unprepared and suffer when they do occasionally
fail.

Agreed, I wonder how many people have a reliable, non-tech, backup
for their satnav, in the car where they are most likely to need it?
And of those how many would know how to use that backup?


You mean: a Map? Now there's a thought! It also requires the knowledge
of how to read it, of course.
I usually keep both a set of local maps and a National Atlas in my car.

Back in my days in the American Mid-West, standard in-car stuff in
winter was:
Space Blanket
Cups/Mugs
Matches
Newspaper
Chocolate bars/nut bars
Shovel
Bits of old carpet

And they were kept in the cabin, not in the boot.

I needed the space blanket once, when the Kentucky Freeway I was on was
snowed to a standstill. In eight hours, the traffic moved half a mile.

--
Davey.

And they were kept in the cabin, not in the boot.

I keep mine in the boot, but then I can open the boot
from the passenger compartment. Once had to enter that
way when I found I was blocked in so tight I couldn't
open the doors.

jgh

Davey scribbled...



Back in my days in the American Mid-West, standard in-car stuff in
winter was:
Space Blanket
Cups/Mugs
Matches
Newspaper
Chocolate bars/nut bars
Shovel
Bits of old carpet



Wot no guns ?

On Sat, 28 Dec 2013 21:11:06 -0000
Artic wrote:

Davey scribbled...



Back in my days in the American Mid-West, standard in-car stuff in
winter was:
Space Blanket
Cups/Mugs
Matches
Newspaper
Chocolate bars/nut bars
Shovel
Bits of old carpet



Wot no guns ?



Not me. I got into a friend's car once, though, and we were discussing
this, and he turned out to have eight pistols of various types
scattered around the interior. Being from Tennessee, he considered this
normal.
Most pickup trucks in the South have a pair of rifles on a hanger in
the cab's rear window.
Most pickup trucks in the deep South are driven by drivers who drink,
while driving. Those things we call coffee cup holders also hold beer
cans.
Hic, bang, oops. "That tree ran out into the road in front of me, so I
had to shoot it, ossifer, honest".

--
Davey.

I'd imagine the point is when its happened.
In them old days you would see bods going along all power line routes
checking trees and cutting them where there was a danger of them hitting the
lines. I don't think this is done or at least not done so often as it used
to be. t This is the main issue here. Obviously, the other issue is putting
sub stations etc, on areas formerly as flood plains.
The water damage aspect could be mitigated by better builds of course.
In the end its all trade offs against cost and profit and reliability in
extreme weather.
We are apparently notorious for being unprepared for anything, which is odd
considering we can have all four seasons in a day here.

Brian

--
From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active
wrote in message
...
In listening to the reports of people without power for the last
couple of days am I alone in thinking that complaining about a
service with a 99.98% up-time reliability is a bit of a moan.

(Guessing that she's in her 50s, so she's had 5 days downtime in
20,000+ days.)

jgh

In message , Brian Gaff
writes
I'd imagine the point is when its happened.
In them old days you would see bods going along all power line routes
checking trees and cutting them where there was a danger of them hitting the
lines. I don't think this is done or at least not done so often as it used
to be.
It is round here only they fly over in helicopters
snip
--
bert

On Fri, 27 Dec 2013 22:37:01 +0000, Tim Streater wrote:

I know that anyone here might find it astonishing, but a good
proportion of the population don't follow news or have much idea about
anything.

Not astonished at all, most of the population *are* as thick as two
short planks. But then dinner table conversation here tends to be on
subjects such as particle physics, faster than light travel theory,
cell biology, current space exploration, etc etc

We are apparently notorious for being unprepared for anything,
which is
odd considering we can have all four seasons in a day here.

That is the problem, the planks haven't put any thought at all in how
to cope with a simple power cut. So they just panic and blame
everyone else for *their* failure to prepare.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On 27/12/2013 23:53, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Fri, 27 Dec 2013 22:37:01 +0000, Tim Streater wrote:

I know that anyone here might find it astonishing, but a good
proportion of the population don't follow news or have much idea about
anything.

Not astonished at all, most of the population *are* as thick as two
short planks. But then dinner table conversation here tends to be on
subjects such as particle physics, faster than light travel theory,
cell biology, current space exploration, etc etc


.. . . deftly weaving in the epistemological concerns of structuration
theory (and others!) as the small hours approach . . .

We are apparently notorious for being unprepared for anything,
which is
odd considering we can have all four seasons in a day here.

That is the problem, the planks haven't put any thought at all in how
to cope with a simple power cut. So they just panic and blame
everyone else for *their* failure to prepare.


.. . . leading to the explanation of all things!!

Oh how the winter's evenings must fly by.

--
Cheers, Rob

I don't think people ar thick. Its more to do with the expectation that the
state will provide. Its Health and safety and the success of the hype of
how advanced we are. In the end, its up to us as has been said. What often
frustrates me is that I am only not prepared due to a lack of suitable stuff
blind folk can operate etc, I do try to think of the what if xxx but am
frustrated by the one size fits all commercial world.

Brian

--
From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active
"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
ll.co.uk...
On Fri, 27 Dec 2013 22:37:01 +0000, Tim Streater wrote:

I know that anyone here might find it astonishing, but a good
proportion of the population don't follow news or have much idea about
anything.

Not astonished at all, most of the population *are* as thick as two
short planks. But then dinner table conversation here tends to be on
subjects such as particle physics, faster than light travel theory,
cell biology, current space exploration, etc etc

We are apparently notorious for being unprepared for anything,
which is
odd considering we can have all four seasons in a day here.

That is the problem, the planks haven't put any thought at all in how
to cope with a simple power cut. So they just panic and blame
everyone else for *their* failure to prepare.

--
Cheers
Dave.