Hello,

We have got a Panasonic combined oven/grill/microwave so I don't think
it's necessarily cheaper to throw it away rather than get it repaired.
The other day we saw some steam coming from under the door. I looked
and I am sure it came from under the door rather than a vent under the
oven. So my worry is, if steam can get out, can microwaves?

If I take it to a repair centre, what do I look for in the Yellow
pages: small appliance repairs? What is the going rate do you think
for a "check-up"?

There doesn't appear to be any damage top the door, so I am not sure
what has caused the leak: a faulty seal perhaps?

Thanks.

On Aug 12, 12:43*pm, Stephen wrote:
Hello,

We have got a Panasonic combined oven/grill/microwave so I don't think
it's necessarily cheaper to throw it away rather than get it repaired.
The other day we saw some steam coming from under the door. I looked
and I am sure it came from under the door rather than a vent under the
oven. So my worry is, if steam can get out, can microwaves?

no, all nukes made since the early 80s use choke doors rather than
seals, and aren't sealed.


If I take it to a repair centre, what do I look for in the Yellow
pages: small appliance repairs? What is the going rate do you think
for a "check-up"?

There's nothing to check, other than for rust holes in the interior.


There doesn't appear to be any damage top the door, so I am not sure
what has caused the leak: a faulty seal perhaps?

Thanks.

there is no seal, no microwave leak and no problem.


NT

Stephen wrote:

Hello,

We have got a Panasonic combined oven/grill/microwave so I don't think

ditto :-)

it's necessarily cheaper to throw it away rather than get it repaired.
The other day we saw some steam coming from under the door. I looked
and I am sure it came from under the door rather than a vent under the
oven. So my worry is, if steam can get out, can microwaves?


Steam is a gas, microwaves are electro-magnetic radiation so they have
nothing in common - unless we start talking quantum physics :-)

Steam coming out of a microwave oven is fine - after all they're not
airtight and you wouldn't want a pressure build-up while you were boiling
something.

Alan
--
email ~= s/nospam//

"Owain" wrote in message
...
On 12 Aug, 12:43, Stephen wrote:
We have got a Panasonic combined oven/grill/microwave so I don't think
it's necessarily cheaper to throw it away rather than get it repaired.
The other day we saw some steam coming from under the door. I looked
and I am sure it came from under the door rather than a vent under the
oven. So my worry is, if steam can get out, can microwaves?

No, that doesn't follow at all. Wavelength of 2.4 GHz = 12.5cm. Size
of a water molecule = well, considerably less!
As long as there are no obvious gaps in the door seal, a millimetre
or two is OK, and no rust holes in the cooking cavity, it
will pass a leakage test.

--
Graham.

%Profound_observation%

On a similar vein....

We also have a microwave/ oven/ grill thing but the LCD screen stopped
working years ago - luckily we only use it to warm food/ baby bottle
so can operate it blindly!!!

We moved the microwave to another room the other week and all of a
sudden it seems to be more efficient. A few times a day we warm water
for my daughters bottle in the bottle itself. So each time it is the
same volume of water and same size bottle. Anyway for the past 6
months, 40 seconds was fine (sometime 50 in the winter because the tap
water is colder!!). A few weeks ago, this seems to have reduced to
around 20 seconds!!! Whilst on the surface this seemed a good thing.
Should I be worried????

thanks

Lee.

On Wed, 12 Aug 2009 12:43:57 +0100, Stephen
wrote:

We have got a Panasonic combined oven/grill/microwave so I don't think
it's necessarily cheaper to throw it away rather than get it repaired.
The other day we saw some steam coming from under the door. I looked
and I am sure it came from under the door rather than a vent under the
oven. So my worry is, if steam can get out, can microwaves?

No, a microwave oven uses a rather cunning trick to make it sealed to
microwaves without requiring a precision fitted door with contact
seals.

It is called a "choke seal" which is a non-contact seal and very
tolerant of misalignment, gaps, and even dirt.. It depends on the
relationship between the dimensions of the oven surround and the oven
frequency (of 2.45GHz ).

The door's "microwave seal" should last forever if the door and the
adjacent oven edge surface are not mechanically damaged and the door
hinges and latch don't grossly shift position. A visual inspection is
all you need to do.

It happens that Stephen formulated :
Hello,

We have got a Panasonic combined oven/grill/microwave so I don't think
it's necessarily cheaper to throw it away rather than get it repaired.
The other day we saw some steam coming from under the door. I looked
and I am sure it came from under the door rather than a vent under the
oven. So my worry is, if steam can get out, can microwaves?

If I take it to a repair centre, what do I look for in the Yellow
pages: small appliance repairs? What is the going rate do you think
for a "check-up"?

There doesn't appear to be any damage top the door, so I am not sure
what has caused the leak: a faulty seal perhaps?

The seals are not designed to be steam proof, but only to protect YOU
from the escape of microwaves. If you have concerns, get a microwave
leakage detector. They are not expensive - probably Maplins will sell
them.

--
Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

On Aug 12, 5:53*pm, Harry Bloomfield
wrote:

If you have concerns, get a microwave
leakage detector. They are not expensive - probably Maplins will sell
them.

these are of no use in microwave safety testing. Many dont even work.
Next time ask in an electronics group.


NT

"Lee Nowell" wrote in message
...
On a similar vein....

We also have a microwave/ oven/ grill thing but the LCD screen stopped
working years ago - luckily we only use it to warm food/ baby bottle
so can operate it blindly!!!

We moved the microwave to another room the other week and all of a
sudden it seems to be more efficient. A few times a day we warm water
for my daughters bottle in the bottle itself. So each time it is the
same volume of water and same size bottle. Anyway for the past 6
months, 40 seconds was fine (sometime 50 in the winter because the tap
water is colder!!). A few weeks ago, this seems to have reduced to
around 20 seconds!!! Whilst on the surface this seemed a good thing.
Should I be worried????

thanks

Lee.

Wouldn't be a Sharp microwave by any chance (LCD issue).

The apparent increase in efficiency is odd, I can't think
of a failure mode to explain it unless there is a volt-drop
in the mains wiring.
Is the turntable still rotating?

--
Graham.

%Profound_observation%

On Wed, 12 Aug 2009 06:04:50 -0700 (PDT), NT
wrote:

no, all nukes made since the early 80s use choke doors rather than
seals, and aren't sealed.

What is a choke door? Even wikipedia is silent on that subject.

If there's no seal, that would explain how the steam gets out, so I am
reassured, thank you very much.

On Wed, 12 Aug 2009 14:07:22 +0100, Alan
wrote:

We have got a Panasonic combined oven/grill/microwave so I don't think

ditto :-)

I've noticed we seem to use it more for convection than microwaves and
have never used the grill. What about you?

It's a shame that only the back has the self-cleaning surface or is
that because of the microwaves?

Steam coming out of a microwave oven is fine - after all they're not
airtight and you wouldn't want a pressure build-up while you were boiling
something.

I hadn't thought about the pressure build up, that's a good point.
Thanks for the reassurance. Strange it should come from the bottom
though, not the top.

On Wed, 12 Aug 2009 14:09:47 +0100, "Graham." wrote:

that doesn't follow at all. Wavelength of 2.4 GHz = 12.5cm. Size
of a water molecule = well, considerably less!

That was my mistake, I was thinking of particles rather than
wavelengths. I was thinking a microwave "particle" (photon?) was much
smaller than a water molecule. Thanks again for the reassurance, I
will save my time and money and not take it to a centre.

On Wed, 12 Aug 2009 08:36:21 -0700 (PDT), Lee Nowell
wrote:

We also have a microwave/ oven/ grill thing but the LCD screen stopped
working years ago

Was it a Sharp? I had a Sharp microwave oven and the LCD broke twice:
once under warranty and when it went the second time and the warranty
was up, I bought the panasonic because I needed to see the display to
see what I was doing. I made sure the replacement oven did not have an
LCD! I read some web sites after the event and Sharp microwave ovens'
LCDs had (still have?) a bad reputation for breaking.

luckily we only use it to warm food/ baby bottle

Naughty! I thought you were not supposed to do that in case of uneven
heating? That said, I know lots of people do

We moved the microwave to another room the other week and all of a
sudden it seems to be more efficient. A few times a day we warm water
for my daughters bottle in the bottle itself. So each time it is the
same volume of water and same size bottle. Anyway for the past 6
months, 40 seconds was fine (sometime 50 in the winter because the tap
water is colder!!). A few weeks ago, this seems to have reduced to
around 20 seconds!!! Whilst on the surface this seemed a good thing.
Should I be worried????

You have already mentioned water temperature, so unless it is that, I
don't know.

"Stephen" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 12 Aug 2009 08:36:21 -0700 (PDT), Lee Nowell
wrote:

We also have a microwave/ oven/ grill thing but the LCD screen stopped
working years ago

Was it a Sharp? I had a Sharp microwave oven and the LCD broke twice:
once under warranty and when it went the second time and the warranty
was up, I bought the panasonic because I needed to see the display to
see what I was doing. I made sure the replacement oven did not have an
LCD! I read some web sites after the event and Sharp microwave ovens'
LCDs had (still have?) a bad reputation for breaking.

If your policy was with Domestic & Genral AND the repair was 5-6 years ago
AND you are in Gtr Manchester or Lancashire then it is highly
likley I did the repair.

luckily we only use it to warm food/ baby bottle

Naughty! I thought you were not supposed to do that in case of uneven
heating? That said, I know lots of people do

Microwaving is the ideal method for heating baby food
due to the non invasive cooking method i.e. the food
does not come into contact with cooking utensils.
Whatever the cooking method, what sane person wouldn't
thoroughly mix and taste-test before feeding an infant.
(Yes I know but that's Darwin in action)

A Midwife friend of ours is convinced microwaves destroy
amino acids or some such but I think that's ********.

--
Graham.

%Profound_observation%

On Aug 13, 12:15*am, "Graham." wrote:
"Stephen" wrote in message

...

On Wed, 12 Aug 2009 08:36:21 -0700 (PDT), Lee Nowell
wrote:

We also have a microwave/ oven/ grill thing but the LCD screen stopped
working years ago

Was it a Sharp? I had a Sharp microwave oven and the LCD broke twice:
once under warranty and when it went the second time and the warranty
was up, I bought the panasonic because I needed to see the display to
see what I was doing. I made sure the replacement oven did not have an
LCD! I read some web sites after the event and Sharp microwave ovens'
LCDs had (still have?) a bad reputation for breaking.

If your policy was with Domestic & Genral AND the repair was 5-6 years ago
AND you are in Gtr Manchester or Lancashire then it is highly
likley I did the repair.

luckily we only use it to warm food/ baby bottle

Naughty! I thought you were not supposed to do that in case of uneven
heating? That said, I know lots of people do

Microwaving is the ideal method for heating baby food
due to the non invasive cooking method i.e. the food
does not come into contact with cooking utensils.
Whatever the cooking method, what sane person wouldn't
thoroughly mix and taste-test before feeding an infant.
(Yes I know but that's Darwin in action)

A Midwife friend of ours is convinced microwaves destroy
amino acids or some such but I think that's ********.

Microwaves do affect food a little, but nowhere near as much as
conventional cooking


NT

On Aug 13, 12:15*am, "Graham." wrote:
A Midwife friend of ours is convinced microwaves destroy
amino acids or some such but I think that's ********.

So do I, and 3 healthy, intelligent teenagers who had their follow-on
heated in the microwave backs that up. God knows how we would have
managed without the m'wave steam bottle sterilizer. The house would
probably still smell of milton.

MBQ

Stephen wrote:

On Wed, 12 Aug 2009 14:07:22 +0100, Alan
wrote:

We have got a Panasonic combined oven/grill/microwave so I don't think

ditto :-)

I've noticed we seem to use it more for convection than microwaves and
have never used the grill. What about you?

We originally bought ours S/H to use while the kitchen was being extended
and we'd be without a cooker. If this one dies we'll be buying another.

It makes excellent baked potatoes on the programmed setting and does chicken
portions really well (provided you don't get impatient and allow them to
'rest' for at least 5 min.).

I'll pass on one really good recipe -
I chop up some leeks really finely and slap the 2 halves of a pheasant
(breast side up) on them in a large pyrex flan dish and cook as 2 chicken
portions. About 5 min before the end I cover the breasts with streaky bacon
to stop them burning and finish the cooking. Allow to rest for 10 min -
loverly, quick and easy :-)
BTW Pheasant is (fairly) cheap in Norfolk during the shooting season.

Alan
--
email ~= s/nospam//

On Aug 12, 10:04*pm, Stephen wrote:
On Wed, 12 Aug 2009 06:04:50 -0700 (PDT), NT
wrote:

no, all nukes made since the early 80s use choke doors rather than
seals, and aren't sealed.

What is a choke door? Even wikipedia is silent on that subject.

If there's no seal, that would explain how the steam gets out, so I am
reassured, thank you very much.

The perimeter of the door is shaped so that it acts like a choke at
2.4GHz. The general public seems wedded to the idea that nuke doors
have seals, it was true in the 1970s but theyre long gone now. The
choke design is much safer.


NT

On 13 Aug, 15:06, NT wrote:
On Aug 12, 10:04*pm, Stephen wrote:

On Wed, 12 Aug 2009 06:04:50 -0700 (PDT), NT
wrote:

no, all nukes made since the early 80s use choke doors rather than
seals, and aren't sealed.

What is a choke door? Even wikipedia is silent on that subject.

If there's no seal, that would explain how the steam gets out, so I am
reassured, thank you very much.

The perimeter of the door is shaped so that it acts like a choke at
2.4GHz. The general public seems wedded to the idea that nuke doors
have seals, it was true in the 1970s but theyre long gone now. The
choke design is much safer.

NT

Funnily enough, it is a Sharp microwave obviously a common problem.
Is it easy/ cost effective to fix?

In terms of the bottles, we heat the water only in the microwave then
add the powder afterwards - much easier than messing around with jugs
of hot water etc.

thanks

Lee.

On Aug 13, 5:50*pm, Lee Nowell wrote:
On 13 Aug, 15:06, NT wrote:

The perimeter of the door is shaped so that it acts like a choke at
2.4GHz. The general public seems wedded to the idea that nuke doors
have seals, it was true in the 1970s but theyre long gone now. The
choke design is much safer.

NT

Funnily enough, it is a Sharp microwave obviously a common problem.
Is it easy/ cost effective to fix?

I dont know what problem youre referring to


NT

no, all nukes made since the early 80s use choke doors rather than
seals, and aren't sealed.

What is a choke door? Even wikipedia is silent on that subject.

If there's no seal, that would explain how the steam gets out, so I am
reassured, thank you very much.

The perimeter of the door is shaped so that it acts like a choke at
2.4GHz. The general public seems wedded to the idea that nuke doors
have seals, it was true in the 1970s but theyre long gone now. The
choke design is much safer.

NT

Funnily enough, it is a Sharp microwave obviously a common problem.
Is it easy/ cost effective to fix?

In terms of the bottles, we heat the water only in the microwave then
add the powder afterwards - much easier than messing around with jugs
of hot water etc.

At the time we were fixing them I think we paid 39GBP + tax for
the module for most models. If it wasn't a scam, it was certainly a big
money-spinner for Sharp. Each model has a different module.
Believe me, we were capable of repairing most stuff to component
level but we had no choice in this case as the problem seemed to
be a ribbon cable that was bonded to the glass LCD at one end
and similarly bonded the small pcb that carried the microprocessor.

I must have replaced hundreds of the damn things, I suppose it
was a money-spinner for us too.

I suppose you will have to conceder it as BER, or carry on
working it blind.

--
Graham.

%Profound_observation%

On Fri, 14 Aug 2009 00:27:58 +0100, "Graham." wrote:

At the time we were fixing them I think we paid 39GBP + tax for
the module for most models.

Thanks everyone for the explanations about choke doors.

Re. the Sharp LCD, I can't remember how much it would have cost to
have had my LCD replaced. I suspect that Graham's 39+vat was a trade
price for parts only? I think I would have been quoted parts+labour,
which would have been more.

Even if I could have had the LCD replaced for £39, I think I would
have decided against it. I needed two LCDs in say 2 years. I decided
that £39 per year for a new display each year was dearer than buying a
new oven in the long run.

HTH

On Aug 14, 9:49*am, Stephen wrote:
On Fri, 14 Aug 2009 00:27:58 +0100, "Graham." wrote:
At the time we were fixing them I think we paid 39GBP + tax for
the module for most models.

Thanks everyone for the explanations about choke doors.

Re. the Sharp LCD, I can't remember how much it would have cost to
have had my LCD replaced. I suspect that Graham's 39+vat was a trade
price for parts only? I think I would have been quoted parts+labour,
which would have been more.

Even if I could have had the LCD replaced for £39, I think I would
have decided against it. I needed two LCDs in say 2 years. I decided
that £39 per year for a new display each year was dearer than buying a
new oven in the long run.

HTH

Skip it is then ..........

Stephen wrote:
On Fri, 14 Aug 2009 00:27:58 +0100, "Graham." wrote:

At the time we were fixing them I think we paid 39GBP + tax for
the module for most models.

Thanks everyone for the explanations about choke doors.

Re. the Sharp LCD, I can't remember how much it would have cost to
have had my LCD replaced. I suspect that Graham's 39+vat was a trade
price for parts only? I think I would have been quoted parts+labour,
which would have been more.

Even if I could have had the LCD replaced for £39, I think I would
have decided against it. I needed two LCDs in say 2 years. I decided
that £39 per year for a new display each year was dearer than buying a
new oven in the long run.

One reason why I am still running a ten year old machine with just two
dials on it.

HTH

The message

from Lee Nowell contains these words:


Funnily enough, it is a Sharp microwave obviously a common problem.
Is it easy/ cost effective to fix?

I've had two different display failures on Sharp microwaves.

The first one was simply due to corrosion on the conductors on a printed
ribbon cable from the display to the pcb controlling it. I cut off the
very end and cleaned up the printed conductor on the cable as best I
could. Reckoned it wouldn't last long, especially as some of hte
conductor had come away with the corrosion. Retired the microwave to
our holiday home where it's still going strong with a perfectly-working
display.

Bought another to replace the semi-retired one. Another Sharp. Display
failed after a year and a few days. Fault internal to the display this
time. Last piece of Sharp equipment that will enter this house.