"Bill" wrote in message
...
In message , Invisible Man
writes
Have you tried freecycle?

My experience with freecycle have been very mixed. And I can't imagine why
they use that awful Yahoo application.

About 30 years ago we were given a good old iron framed piano, which we
still have and which still sounds great. My daughter got to Grade 8 on it
and bangs away every time she comes back to visit.
About 15 years ago we moved house and thought the old piano would fall
apart in the move, so we bought a second piano at a good price from a
teacher, and put it in the new house.
With a bit of woodwork from me, the old piano did survive the move, and
daughter later took the second piano to her house.

When she comes here and we hear her play her old black piano, it makes it
all worthwhile. This talk of smashing a decent piano is sacrilege. It
could change someone's life. It's your duty to try to find them.

I agree.

Mary
--
Bill

On Mon, 25 Aug 2008 18:02:10 +0100, endymion wrote:

"Graeme" wrote in message
...
In message , Bill
writes



Slightly off on a tangent, but just how heavy, and difficult to move,
is an upright piano?

My wife would love one (she plays, but does not have a piano), and have
seen them on Freecycle occasionally, but are put off by the imagined
(?) problems of moving, tuning etc.

I cant say how heavy it is but it is HEAVY! Its on castors ( I guess
most are) and when I moved we wheeled it in and tugged it up a couple of
steps. When I had it originally it took me and one other person ( male)
to lift it up 15 steps! It was a job and I was much younger then. My
current home is a bungalow so when we moved here it came along
relatively happily. However, I know even removers job at moving piano's.

Getting it tuned is relatively painless except for the cost - 45 quid a
time.

I really just want to move mine because I dont use it. I cant play. I
want a new carpet and cant put one down because its so difficult to work
round the piano and its a bit in the way.

==================================
There's a DIY video on the subject of moving pianos - courtesy of Laurel
and Hardy.

Cic.
--
===================================
Using Ubuntu Linux
Windows shown the door
===================================

In message , George
writes

"Graeme" wrote in message
...
In message , Bill
writes

About 15 years ago we moved house and thought the old piano would fall
apart in the move, so we bought a second piano at a good price from a
teacher, and put it in the new house.

Slightly off on a tangent, but just how heavy, and difficult to move, is
an upright piano?

My wife would love one (she plays, but does not have a piano), and have
seen them on Freecycle occasionally, but are put off by the imagined (?)
problems of moving, tuning etc.

--
Graeme

About the weight of a car engine.


Our black iron-framed one was heavy. The woodwork included some very
heavy blocks. The second one was a lot lighter with its wood frame. We
are all more or less ground level, and professional removal men had no
trouble with either. They just put their 'dolly' (is it called) at the
right place and rocked the instrument back and forward to jump uo small
steps.

The glue was what failed in the heavy black one. I just had to jack it
up and re-glue blocks together. Then a few weeks settle down and get
somone to tune it.

The OP seemed to be saying that his piano was in tune and had been
'serviced'. We have some keyboard type things here, and they are not the
same. We can't afford anything anywhere near as good as our free piano.
--
Bill

On Mon, 25 Aug 2008 16:57:18 +0100, dennis@home wrote:

A decent (more than ~£99) digital piano is almost certain to be better
than a 1920s upright if it wasn't tuned two hours ago if its connected
to some proper speakers.

Operative words being "proper speakers" and not forgetting a decent amp
with a fair bit of umph. Some modern electronic "pianos" don't sound to
bad but I still much prefer the sound of the real thing. Each instrument
is an individual, with their own tone and nuances. Not some every note
perfect thing.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Mon, 25 Aug 2008 17:01:31 +0100, Graeme wrote:

Slightly off on a tangent, but just how heavy, and difficult to move, is
an upright piano?

Roughly a couple of cwt say 100kg. If you have a strong enough dolly they
are not difficult to move, just heavy. I'd not like to deal with stairs
though.

--
Cheers
Dave.

"geoff" wrote in message
...


dennis has just shown that he's not a musician

You have just shown that you have never heard a decent digital piano.

"stuart noble" wrote in message
...


Doesn't need to be with his £99 keyboard plugged into his surround sound
system, ennit?

I'll put my daughters korg against an upright any day.
And then she can switch it to an organ or connect it to my Yamaha sound
module and choose one (or more) of a couple of thousands sounds.

On Mon, 25 Aug 2008 17:04:12 +0100, "dennis@home"
wrote:

Ahh, mythbusters.. proving that they can't duplicate a myth.. not that the
myth didn't happen..

they aren't the brightest of people.. they don't even know what makes a
suspension bridge a suspension bridge as anyone who watched them make one
for a myth will know.

Go on then, what does make a suspension bridge a suspension bridge?

--
Cats have nine lives, which is why they rarely post to Usenet.

In message , "dennis@home"
writes


"stuart noble" wrote in message
...


Doesn't need to be with his £99 keyboard plugged into his surround
sound system, ennit?

I'll put my daughters korg against an upright any day.

That's because you are a mong with no understanding of why it can never
be as good as a decent piano where a piano is required

And then she can switch it to an organ or connect it to my Yamaha sound
module and choose one (or more) of a couple of thousands sounds.

A piano is not an organ



--
geoff

In message , "dennis@home"
writes


"geoff" wrote in message
...


dennis has just shown that he's not a musician

You have just shown that you have never heard a decent digital piano.

I've played lots of them (decent ones, that is)

more than you have, that's for sure


--
geoff

"Andy Dingley" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 25 Aug 2008 17:04:12 +0100, "dennis@home"
wrote:

Ahh, mythbusters.. proving that they can't duplicate a myth.. not that the
myth didn't happen..

they aren't the brightest of people.. they don't even know what makes a
suspension bridge a suspension bridge as anyone who watched them make one
for a myth will know.

Go on then, what does make a suspension bridge a suspension bridge?

You suspend the deck, the one the myth busters built didn't suspend the
deck.
You don't get the same resonances out of a welded wire frame thing that they
built as you do out of a suspension bridge so the whole thing was an
exercise in how not to do it.

PS why do you need to ask such a stupid question anyway, its obvious.

On Mon, 25 Aug 2008 23:02:40 +0100, "dennis@home"
wrote:

PS why do you need to ask such a stupid question anyway, its obvious.

Because I don't believe for a moment that your understanding can be any
greater than that of the producers of a TV program.

...And you know how much I despise the dumbness of TV.

"geoff" wrote in message
...
In message , "dennis@home"
writes


"stuart noble" wrote in message
...


Doesn't need to be with his £99 keyboard plugged into his surround sound
system, ennit?

I'll put my daughters korg against an upright any day.

That's because you are a mong with no understanding of why it can never be
as good as a decent piano where a piano is required

That is because you are an old fart that thinks a piano has to be a piece of
furniture before being a musical instrument.


And then she can switch it to an organ or connect it to my Yamaha sound
module and choose one (or more) of a couple of thousands sounds.

A piano is not an organ

No but an 88 key touch sensitive keyboard has more uses than gathering dust
on some old junk piano.

"geoff" wrote in message
...
In message , "dennis@home"
writes


"geoff" wrote in message
...


dennis has just shown that he's not a musician

You have just shown that you have never heard a decent digital piano.

I've played lots of them (decent ones, that is)

more than you have, that's for sure

But not well enough to notice they are better than an upright piano.

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember "endymion"
saying something like:

How do you get rid of a piano like this?

Roll it off a pier.
--
Dave
GS850x2 XS650 SE6a

"It's a moron working with power tools.
How much more suspenseful can you get?"
- House

"Andy Dingley" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 25 Aug 2008 23:02:40 +0100, "dennis@home"
wrote:

PS why do you need to ask such a stupid question anyway, its obvious.

Because I don't believe for a moment that your understanding can be any
greater than that of the producers of a TV program.

Just because you are thick doesn't mean everyone else is.

In message , "dennis@home"
writes


"geoff" wrote in message
...
In message , "dennis@home"
writes


"stuart noble" wrote in message
...


Doesn't need to be with his £99 keyboard plugged into his surround
sound system, ennit?

I'll put my daughters korg against an upright any day.

That's because you are a mong with no understanding of why it can
never be as good as a decent piano where a piano is required

That is because you are an old fart that thinks a piano has to be a
piece of furniture before being a musical instrument.

No, its because I'm a musician and you are not

neither, it appears do you have the powers of logic which mean you
should be in charge of anything more dangerous than a soft crayon



And then she can switch it to an organ or connect it to my Yamaha
sound module and choose one (or more) of a couple of thousands sounds.

A piano is not an organ

No but an 88 key touch sensitive keyboard has more uses than gathering
dust on some old junk piano.


Sorry, that didn't make sense in english

don't bother trying again

--
geoff

In message , "dennis@home"
writes


"geoff" wrote in message
...
In message , "dennis@home"
writes


"geoff" wrote in message
...


dennis has just shown that he's not a musician

You have just shown that you have never heard a decent digital piano.

I've played lots of them (decent ones, that is)

more than you have, that's for sure

But not well enough to notice they are better than an upright piano.

Sorry, I can't be arsed to continue futile arguments with a clueless
****forbrains like yourself

end of

--
geoff

dennis@home wrote:
"Andy Dingley" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 25 Aug 2008 23:02:40 +0100, "dennis@home"
wrote:

PS why do you need to ask such a stupid question anyway, its
obvious.

Because I don't believe for a moment that your understanding can be
any greater than that of the producers of a TV program.

Just because you are thick doesn't mean everyone else is.

Here he goes again, abusing people who don't agree with him - always
assuming they understood him in the first place.

Has anyone ever seen Dennis & Drivel in the same room?


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

In article ,
dennis@home wrote:


"geoff" wrote in message
...


dennis has just shown that he's not a musician

You have just shown that you have never heard a decent digital piano.

I've yet to hear a digital piano I can't instantly tell is not the real
thing. Which is surprising considering no two pianos sound the same.



--
*All men are idiots, and I married their King.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

geoff wrote:
In message , Kevin
writes
but it might be as well to loosen the strings first

all 200 of them ?


That's why god invented the Dremel... It only takes a few moments to run
across the lot with a cutoff disk. If only I had thought of using an
angle grinder!

Andy.

On Mon, 25 Aug 2008 17:09:11 +0100, stuart noble
wrote:

Stephen Howard wrote:
On Mon, 25 Aug 2008 15:17:32 +0100, stuart noble
wrote:

When she comes here and we hear her play her old black piano, it makes
it all worthwhile. This talk of smashing a decent piano is sacrilege. It
could change someone's life. It's your duty to try to find them.
Amen to that.
Acoustic sound isn't valued too highly these days

Generally because most half-decent digital pianos will knock spots of
A.N.Other old upright.
No need for tuning, headphone capability, weighted and touch-senstive
action that never needs balancing, portability - and in some cases a
choice of piano/harpsichord/organ sounds.

But maybe kids need to hear acoustic sound. It's just musical
typewriting otherwise

There goes the electric guitar then. Heaven knows how it made it this
far.
Maybe what kids need is a decent instrument and a sound that inspires
them - and lord knows I've seen my fair share of clunky old uprights
gathering dust simply because they're as uninspiring to play as a
cheese banjo.

Regards,



--
Stephen Howard - Woodwind repairs & period restorations
http://www.shwoodwind.co.uk
Emails to: showard{who is at}shwoodwind{dot}co{dot}uk

On Mon, 25 Aug 2008 22:03:35 +0100 (BST), "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:

On Mon, 25 Aug 2008 16:57:18 +0100, dennis@home wrote:

A decent (more than ~£99) digital piano is almost certain to be better
than a 1920s upright if it wasn't tuned two hours ago if its connected
to some proper speakers.

Operative words being "proper speakers" and not forgetting a decent amp
with a fair bit of umph. Some modern electronic "pianos" don't sound to
bad but I still much prefer the sound of the real thing. Each instrument
is an individual, with their own tone and nuances. Not some every note
perfect thing.

A good digital piano isn't an 'every note perfect thing'. In
simplistic terms you take a recording of an acoustic piano (
Bosendorfer, Steinway et al ) and trigger it on a 'per note' basis,
thus reproducing the typical sound ( usually defined by the frame
design ), warts and all.
You might be thinking of an 'electronic keyboard', in which the sounds
are synthesized - a completely different beast.

Good though many a budget keyboard is these days, the realistic
benchmark for a basic good digital piano is around the £500 mark.
The general consensus is that there are Yamaha digital pianos, and
everything else - and while this is perhaps a little on the 'one size
fits all' side, it's nonetheless a good starting point when choosing
an instrument.

Anyway, if anyone wants info on such things - including how to get rid
of an old upright - try he

http://www.ukpianos.co.uk/Piano_forum/default.asp

Regards,



--
Stephen Howard - Woodwind repairs & period restorations
http://www.shwoodwind.co.uk
Emails to: showard{who is at}shwoodwind{dot}co{dot}uk

On Mon, 25 Aug 2008 22:37:29 +0100, geoff wrote:

In message , "dennis@home"
writes


"stuart noble" wrote in message
...


Doesn't need to be with his £99 keyboard plugged into his surround
sound system, ennit?

I'll put my daughters korg against an upright any day.

That's because you are a mong with no understanding of why it can never
be as good as a decent piano where a piano is required

I think it's fair to say that I've played at some pretty spectacular
gigs over the years - and a piano has been required at most of them.
It's nearly always been a digital one. YMMV.

Mind you, there was that time we tried to use a grand...

http://www.shwoodwind.co.uk/Notes/Lawks.htm


Regards,



--
Stephen Howard - Woodwind repairs & period restorations
http://www.shwoodwind.co.uk
Emails to: showard{who is at}shwoodwind{dot}co{dot}uk

In article ,
Stephen Howard wrote:
But maybe kids need to hear acoustic sound. It's just musical
typewriting otherwise

There goes the electric guitar then. Heaven knows how it made it this
far.

The electric guitar is an instrument in its own right. Unless you
actually think it sounds like an acoustic one?

Maybe what kids need is a decent instrument and a sound that inspires
them - and lord knows I've seen my fair share of clunky old uprights
gathering dust simply because they're as uninspiring to play as a
cheese banjo.

That's a totally different argument.

--
*When a clock is hungry it goes back four seconds*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Stephen Howard wrote:
That's because you are a mong with no understanding of why it can never
be as good as a decent piano where a piano is required

I think it's fair to say that I've played at some pretty spectacular
gigs over the years - and a piano has been required at most of them.
It's nearly always been a digital one. YMMV.

Of course. The difficulty of transporting a real piano has been mentioned
- and then there's the small matter of getting an output from it to feed
to the PA. In other words, exactly the reason the 'electric piano' was
invented.

--
*A conclusion is the place where you got tired of thinking *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

There goes the electric guitar then. Heaven knows how it made it this
far.

Mainly because it makes a lot of noise with minimal effort, and requires
endless accessories. Kids should listen to Jimi Hendrix and Segovia.

Andy Dingley wrote:
On Mon, 25 Aug 2008 23:02:40 +0100, "dennis@home"
wrote:

PS why do you need to ask such a stupid question anyway, its obvious.

Because I don't believe for a moment that your understanding can be any
greater than that of the producers of a TV program.

...And you know how much I despise the dumbness of TV.

good grief, it isn't hard..every time I hear Clarkson say 'its got 300
torques' I cringe...

"geoff" wrote in message
...
In message , "dennis@home"
writes


"geoff" wrote in message
...
In message , "dennis@home"
writes


"stuart noble" wrote in message
...


Doesn't need to be with his £99 keyboard plugged into his surround
sound system, ennit?

I'll put my daughters korg against an upright any day.

That's because you are a mong with no understanding of why it can never
be as good as a decent piano where a piano is required

That is because you are an old fart that thinks a piano has to be a piece
of furniture before being a musical instrument.

No, its because I'm a musician and you are not

You are an old fart as I have said.
Just because it doesn't look like a piano is enough to make you claim it
isn't a piano.
Tell the musicians that play electric violins that they aren't violins.
Its you that is wrong here not I.


neither, it appears do you have the powers of logic which mean you should
be in charge of anything more dangerous than a soft crayon

If you think my logic is wrong you are going to have to explain it, you
can't BTW as its you that's wrong.



And then she can switch it to an organ or connect it to my Yamaha sound
module and choose one (or more) of a couple of thousands sounds.

A piano is not an organ

No but an 88 key touch sensitive keyboard has more uses than gathering
dust on some old junk piano.


Sorry, that didn't make sense in english

So you can't understand plain English then?

don't bother trying again

I won't for you, it was plain enough the first time.

"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message
om...
dennis@home wrote:
"Andy Dingley" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 25 Aug 2008 23:02:40 +0100, "dennis@home"
wrote:

PS why do you need to ask such a stupid question anyway, its
obvious.

Because I don't believe for a moment that your understanding can be
any greater than that of the producers of a TV program.

Just because you are thick doesn't mean everyone else is.

Here he goes again, abusing people who don't agree with him - always
assuming they understood him in the first place.

That isn't an insult.
It is a statement.
I will assume anyone that has the stupidity to think a producer of a TV
program knows anything about bridges is, well, thick.
Also if he had seen the program he would know it wasn't a suspension bridge,
unless he is thick.


Has anyone ever seen Dennis & Drivel in the same room?

Sod off!
Who invited you to dribble here?
That is an insult BTW.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
dennis@home wrote:


"geoff" wrote in message
...


dennis has just shown that he's not a musician

You have just shown that you have never heard a decent digital piano.

I've yet to hear a digital piano I can't instantly tell is not the real
thing. Which is surprising considering no two pianos sound the same.

So?
Does that mean they sound better?
Not IMO.

Have you heard a Yamaha baby grand yet?

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Stephen Howard wrote:
But maybe kids need to hear acoustic sound. It's just musical
typewriting otherwise

There goes the electric guitar then. Heaven knows how it made it this
far.

The electric guitar is an instrument in its own right. Unless you
actually think it sounds like an acoustic one?

So is an electric piano.
Just because someone doesn't like digital pianos doesn't make them cr@p.
It just makes them an old fart.

When electric guitars came out there will have been the same old farts
saying it isn't music, it sounds cr@p, etc. just as the old farts say
digital pianos aren't real and sound worse than "real" pianos.
Just as they said the same when harpsichords were around.

If it were left to the old farts we would still be living in mud^W caves as
there is always an old fart that thinks something new is wrong.


Lets stick geoff in Dudley town hall with his upright and my daughter with
her Korg and a few hundred people (yes she has done that) and see which gets
the best response.

On Tue, 26 Aug 2008 08:33:36 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Stephen Howard wrote:
That's because you are a mong with no understanding of why it can never
be as good as a decent piano where a piano is required

I think it's fair to say that I've played at some pretty spectacular
gigs over the years - and a piano has been required at most of them.
It's nearly always been a digital one. YMMV.

Of course. The difficulty of transporting a real piano has been mentioned
- and then there's the small matter of getting an output from it to feed
to the PA. In other words, exactly the reason the 'electric piano' was
invented.

For sure, but I was referring to the sort of gigs where there's
somewhere to land your helicopter behind the stage and every bit of
kit's on a rolling palett

Regards,



--
Stephen Howard - Woodwind repairs & period restorations
www.shwoodwind.co.uk
Emails to: showard{whoisat}shwoodwind{dot}co{dot}uk

On Tue, 26 Aug 2008 08:29:46 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Stephen Howard wrote:
But maybe kids need to hear acoustic sound. It's just musical
typewriting otherwise

There goes the electric guitar then. Heaven knows how it made it this
far.

The electric guitar is an instrument in its own right.

Sure it is, but it isn't musical typewriting.

Maybe what kids need is a decent instrument and a sound that inspires
them - and lord knows I've seen my fair share of clunky old uprights
gathering dust simply because they're as uninspiring to play as a
cheese banjo.

That's a totally different argument.

Not if you're a kid sat at a clunky old upright.

Regards,



--
Stephen Howard - Woodwind repairs & period restorations
www.shwoodwind.co.uk
Emails to: showard{whoisat}shwoodwind{dot}co{dot}uk

On Tue, 26 Aug 2008 08:40:18 +0100, stuart noble
wrote:


There goes the electric guitar then. Heaven knows how it made it this
far.

Mainly because it makes a lot of noise with minimal effort, and requires
endless accessories. Kids should listen to Jimi Hendrix and Segovia.

How about Joe Pass, Bill Frisell, Wes Montgomery...maximum effort, not
much noise.

Regards,



--
Stephen Howard - Woodwind repairs & period restorations
www.shwoodwind.co.uk
Emails to: showard{whoisat}shwoodwind{dot}co{dot}uk

In article ,
dennis@home wrote:
No, its because I'm a musician and you are not

You are an old fart as I have said.
Just because it doesn't look like a piano is enough to make you claim it
isn't a piano.
Tell the musicians that play electric violins that they aren't violins.

They don't sound like violins either...

Its you that is wrong here not I.

I'd suggest you get yourself away from your electronic devices and try
listing to the real thing. You may not like it as much - your prerogative
- but at least you should hear the difference.

--
*I must always remember that I'm unique, just like everyone else. *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
dennis@home wrote:
I will assume anyone that has the stupidity to think a producer of a TV
program knows anything about bridges is, well, thick.

Producers of TV progs don't need to be an expert on their subject. They
should employ others who are.

--
*It was all so different before everything changed.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
dennis@home wrote:


"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
dennis@home wrote:


"geoff" wrote in message
...


dennis has just shown that he's not a musician

You have just shown that you have never heard a decent digital piano.

I've yet to hear a digital piano I can't instantly tell is not the real
thing. Which is surprising considering no two pianos sound the same.

So?
Does that mean they sound better?

'Better' is a subjective term. With musical instruments.

Not IMO.

If you asked expert pianists I doubt you'd find any who preferred the
sound of a computer to a real instrument. Except for specific uses.

Have you heard a Yamaha baby grand yet?

I helped choose a real Yamaha grand for the recording studio at a place I
used to work at.

--
*Why is the third hand on the watch called a second hand?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Stephen Howard wrote:
Of course. The difficulty of transporting a real piano has been
mentioned - and then there's the small matter of getting an output from
it to feed to the PA. In other words, exactly the reason the 'electric
piano' was invented.

For sure, but I was referring to the sort of gigs where there's
somewhere to land your helicopter behind the stage and every bit of
kit's on a rolling palett

And fix it and tune it, of course. Which can be very difficult to do at
many gigs - even where money is no object.

You don't transport a Strad. along with the music stands. ;-)

--
*What am I? Flypaper for freaks!?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Stephen Howard wrote:
On Tue, 26 Aug 2008 08:29:46 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Stephen Howard wrote:
But maybe kids need to hear acoustic sound. It's just musical
typewriting otherwise

There goes the electric guitar then. Heaven knows how it made it this
far.

The electric guitar is an instrument in its own right.

Sure it is, but it isn't musical typewriting.

I didn't say it was. Nor agree with the statement.

Maybe what kids need is a decent instrument and a sound that inspires
them - and lord knows I've seen my fair share of clunky old uprights
gathering dust simply because they're as uninspiring to play as a
cheese banjo.

That's a totally different argument.

Not if you're a kid sat at a clunky old upright.

I'm just saying an electric piano doesn't sound like a real one - anymore
than an electric guitar sounds like an acoustic one, or a drum generator
sound like a drum kit. However much place they may have in modern music.
I'm not even saying I don't like them.



--
*Women who seek to be equal to men lack ambition.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.