Andy Champ wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
good grief, it isn't hard..every time I hear Clarkson say 'its got 300
torques' I cringe...


I'm pretty sure he knows that's silly.

But since I attach no importance to the torque output of an engine (I
care about power output, power spread, and efficiency) I've never
bothered to work out what units he means.

Andy
It sounds like ft lb from the numbers he quotes.

But I am not so sure he DOES know what torque is.

Stephen Howard wrote:
On Tue, 26 Aug 2008 21:51:24 +0100, Andy Champ
wrote:

stuart noble wrote:
Acoustic sound isn't valued too highly these days
Fascinating sentence. I think I can guess what you mean but the concept
of non-acoustic sound is quite interesting!

It's called a 'rest'

Regards,



Its called hearing impairment, or deafness, in old money.

Grimly Curmudgeon wrote:
We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember Signal saying
something like:

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:

You are an old fart as I have said.
Just because it doesn't look like a piano is enough to make you claim it
isn't a piano.
Tell the musicians that play electric violins that they aren't violins.
They don't sound like violins either...
They do sound like electric violins.

They sound bugger all like pianos, I know that much.

well played pizzicato, actually sometimes they do..

I've made electric guitars sound like clarinets in my time..you need a
certain woddy sounding loudspeaker enclosure and a certain amount of
even harmonic distrortion, and a bit of an artist in the thing to
control the attack, which is a bit of a giveaway on a guitar, but the
sustained note is very close to a reed instrument. The sound of the reed
flapping together is duplicated by the asymmetric clipping in the
amplifier...

On Wed, 27 Aug 2008 00:18:18 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

Stephen Howard wrote:
On Tue, 26 Aug 2008 15:57:00 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

Stephen Howard wrote:
On Tue, 26 Aug 2008 15:12:26 +0000, Stephen Howard
wrote:


You can have Stanley Jordan then...even more effort!
http://tw.youtube.com/watch?v=baDM3_6w8-E

Oh yeah!!

Like most modern jazz, incredibly skillful and clever, and leaves me
totally cold..

For sure, it's not Kenny Ball or Acker Bilk - and often has the same
effect that, say, a good red wine or a fine cheese has on many a
coarse palate.


why make a perjorative remark?: I merely expressed a personal opinion,
and made no comment about others..

Nothing pejorative about it - it's well-known that more advanced forms
of music require a degree of, for want of a better word, education.
First time I heard Charlie Parker I thought it was nothing more than
some geezer making squeaky noises on an alto - but with a significant
number of excellent players speaking in terms of 'genius' etc. I made
the effort to find out why I couldn't appreciate the music.
I understand it now, and appreciate it for its staggering beauty - and
better still it opened the door to even more exciting artists.

Regards,



--
Stephen Howard - Woodwind repairs & period restorations
http://www.shwoodwind.co.uk
Emails to: showard{who is at}shwoodwind{dot}co{dot}uk

On Wed, 27 Aug 2008 00:36:39 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

Grimly Curmudgeon wrote:
We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember Signal saying
something like:

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:

You are an old fart as I have said.
Just because it doesn't look like a piano is enough to make you claim it
isn't a piano.
Tell the musicians that play electric violins that they aren't violins.
They don't sound like violins either...
They do sound like electric violins.

They sound bugger all like pianos, I know that much.

well played pizzicato, actually sometimes they do..

I've made electric guitars sound like clarinets in my time..you need a
certain woddy sounding loudspeaker enclosure and a certain amount of
even harmonic distrortion, and a bit of an artist in the thing to
control the attack, which is a bit of a giveaway on a guitar, but the
sustained note is very close to a reed instrument. The sound of the reed
flapping together is duplicated by the asymmetric clipping in the
amplifier...

You can make a sax sound like Hendrix....all you need is an overdrive
pedal, a transducer, a good amp and a pair of earplugs. Only works
from around octave G up.

Regards,



--
Stephen Howard - Woodwind repairs & period restorations
http://www.shwoodwind.co.uk
Emails to: showard{who is at}shwoodwind{dot}co{dot}uk

On Wed, 27 Aug 2008 00:33:27 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

Stephen Howard wrote:
On Tue, 26 Aug 2008 21:51:24 +0100, Andy Champ
wrote:

stuart noble wrote:
Acoustic sound isn't valued too highly these days
Fascinating sentence. I think I can guess what you mean but the concept
of non-acoustic sound is quite interesting!

It's called a 'rest'


Its called hearing impairment, or deafness, in old money.

Eh? What??

Regards,



--
Stephen Howard - Woodwind repairs & period restorations
http://www.shwoodwind.co.uk
Emails to: showard{who is at}shwoodwind{dot}co{dot}uk

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Stephen Howard wrote:
On Tue, 26 Aug 2008 21:51:24 +0100, Andy Champ
wrote:

stuart noble wrote:
Acoustic sound isn't valued too highly these days
Fascinating sentence. I think I can guess what you mean but the
concept of non-acoustic sound is quite interesting!

It's called a 'rest'

Regards,



Its called hearing impairment, or deafness, in old money.

Or tinnitus. :-(

--
Rod

Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious
onset.
Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed.
www.thyromind.info www.thyroiduk.org www.altsupportthyroid.org

On Wed, 27 Aug 2008 00:29:48 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Give me 1/4 million and five years, and I'll do it for you..

That little cash?

Ultimately the problems of doing accurate SYNTHESIS were overcome by the
art of sampling. Rather like the original ..bugger I forget the name -
you know with a million lops of tape running inside it. Think Moody
Blues..

The Moody Blues used a Mellotron http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mellotron

Interesting history and development. They don't make 'em like that
anymore.

--
Cheers
Dave.

In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Andy Champ wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
good grief, it isn't hard..every time I hear Clarkson say 'its got
300 torques' I cringe...


I'm pretty sure he knows that's silly.

But since I attach no importance to the torque output of an engine (I
care about power output, power spread, and efficiency) I've never
bothered to work out what units he means.

Andy
It sounds like ft lb from the numbers he quotes.

But I am not so sure he DOES know what torque is.

It's a running gag due to torque figures being quoted in different ways.

Top Gear simply emulates a bunch of lads playing out their pub fantasies.
If you don't like the idea don't watch it.

--
*i souport publik edekashun.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Stephen Howard wrote:
On Wed, 27 Aug 2008 00:18:18 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

Stephen Howard wrote:
On Tue, 26 Aug 2008 15:57:00 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

Stephen Howard wrote:
On Tue, 26 Aug 2008 15:12:26 +0000, Stephen Howard
wrote:


You can have Stanley Jordan then...even more effort!
http://tw.youtube.com/watch?v=baDM3_6w8-E

Oh yeah!!

Like most modern jazz, incredibly skillful and clever, and leaves me
totally cold..
For sure, it's not Kenny Ball or Acker Bilk - and often has the same
effect that, say, a good red wine or a fine cheese has on many a
coarse palate.


why make a perjorative remark?: I merely expressed a personal opinion,
and made no comment about others..

Nothing pejorative about it - it's well-known that more advanced forms
of music require a degree of, for want of a better word, education.
First time I heard Charlie Parker I thought it was nothing more than
some geezer making squeaky noises on an alto - but with a significant
number of excellent players speaking in terms of 'genius' etc. I made
the effort to find out why I couldn't appreciate the music.
I understand it now, and appreciate it for its staggering beauty - and
better still it opened the door to even more exciting artists.


Well I suppose that you could say that being fairly clued up as am
engieer,the sound of a Mclraren F1 car has a certain sort of beauty,
but frankly I wouldn't wander around with my nose in the air telling
people its high Art./

It's Engineering.

Jazz like that is technique, but its not what I call Art.

I can appreciate it, but I wouldn't want to have it playing in my room,
any more than i would a Mclaren F1 car..

All skill, no creativity.



Regards,

Stephen Howard wrote:
On Wed, 27 Aug 2008 11:02:28 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

Stephen Howard wrote:
On Wed, 27 Aug 2008 00:18:18 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
snip
why make a perjorative remark?: I merely expressed a personal opinion,
and made no comment about others..
Nothing pejorative about it - it's well-known that more advanced forms
of music require a degree of, for want of a better word, education.
First time I heard Charlie Parker I thought it was nothing more than
some geezer making squeaky noises on an alto - but with a significant
number of excellent players speaking in terms of 'genius' etc. I made
the effort to find out why I couldn't appreciate the music.
I understand it now, and appreciate it for its staggering beauty - and
better still it opened the door to even more exciting artists.

Well I suppose that you could say that being fairly clued up as am
engieer,the sound of a Mclraren F1 car has a certain sort of beauty,
but frankly I wouldn't wander around with my nose in the air telling
people its high Art./

It's Engineering.

Jazz like that is technique, but its not what I call Art.

I can appreciate it, but I wouldn't want to have it playing in my room,
any more than i would a Mclaren F1 car..

All skill, no creativity.

You've already made it clear you don't understand it - not much point
your trying to critique it when you haven't got a clue what's going
on.

Regards,




Weird this jazz thing. It never actually dies, but it's been on the
verge of it for the last 50 years. Can't fill the back room of a pub for
a jazz gig these days.
I was shocked to see Tal Farlow playing in the corner of a pub in Oxford
with no one listening, and that was 20 years ago.

On Wed, 27 Aug 2008 11:02:28 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

Stephen Howard wrote:
On Wed, 27 Aug 2008 00:18:18 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
snip
why make a perjorative remark?: I merely expressed a personal opinion,
and made no comment about others..

Nothing pejorative about it - it's well-known that more advanced forms
of music require a degree of, for want of a better word, education.
First time I heard Charlie Parker I thought it was nothing more than
some geezer making squeaky noises on an alto - but with a significant
number of excellent players speaking in terms of 'genius' etc. I made
the effort to find out why I couldn't appreciate the music.
I understand it now, and appreciate it for its staggering beauty - and
better still it opened the door to even more exciting artists.


Well I suppose that you could say that being fairly clued up as am
engieer,the sound of a Mclraren F1 car has a certain sort of beauty,
but frankly I wouldn't wander around with my nose in the air telling
people its high Art./

It's Engineering.

Jazz like that is technique, but its not what I call Art.

I can appreciate it, but I wouldn't want to have it playing in my room,
any more than i would a Mclaren F1 car..

All skill, no creativity.

You've already made it clear you don't understand it - not much point
your trying to critique it when you haven't got a clue what's going
on.

Regards,



--
Stephen Howard - Woodwind repairs & period restorations
www.shwoodwind.co.uk
Emails to: showard{whoisat}shwoodwind{dot}co{dot}uk

On Wed, 27 Aug 2008 12:06:33 +0100, stuart noble
wrote:

snip



Weird this jazz thing. It never actually dies, but it's been on the
verge of it for the last 50 years. Can't fill the back room of a pub for
a jazz gig these days.
I was shocked to see Tal Farlow playing in the corner of a pub in Oxford
with no one listening, and that was 20 years ago.

It's like most forms of specialised music, it's under-funded and
under-promoted.
Practically any form of non-mainstream music suffers in the same way -
even esoteric rock or the just plain not fashionable.

On the whole, jazz fans tend to prefer going to specialist venues -
and with good reason. I once went to see the great Eddie Thompson play
in a bar in Essex...and there was a guy shoving coins in a fruit
machine for half the first set. The landlord refused to switch the
machine off.

Should be interesting over the next decade or so, with the influx of
decent and extremely cheap instruments from China.

Regards,



--
Stephen Howard - Woodwind repairs & period restorations
www.shwoodwind.co.uk
Emails to: showard{whoisat}shwoodwind{dot}co{dot}uk

Stephen Howard wrote:
On Wed, 27 Aug 2008 12:06:33 +0100, stuart noble
wrote:

snip

Weird this jazz thing. It never actually dies, but it's been on the
verge of it for the last 50 years. Can't fill the back room of a pub for
a jazz gig these days.
I was shocked to see Tal Farlow playing in the corner of a pub in Oxford
with no one listening, and that was 20 years ago.

It's like most forms of specialised music, it's under-funded and
under-promoted.
Practically any form of non-mainstream music suffers in the same way -
even esoteric rock or the just plain not fashionable.

On the whole, jazz fans tend to prefer going to specialist venues -
and with good reason. I once went to see the great Eddie Thompson play
in a bar in Essex...and there was a guy shoving coins in a fruit
machine for half the first set. The landlord refused to switch the
machine off.

Should be interesting over the next decade or so, with the influx of
decent and extremely cheap instruments from China.

Regards,




The only semi-serious jazz venues in London seem to be The Vortex and
The 606. Ronnie's has become the typical corporate night club, which I
guess was inevitable, and the pizza houses don't do it for me. Hovering
waiters etc.
I think young British players are perhaps trying too hard to be
innovative and have forgotten how to enjoy themselves.

On 27 Aug, 00:29, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Ultimately the problems of doing accurate SYNTHESIS were overcome by the
art of sampling. Rather like the original ..bugger I forget the name -
you know with a million lops of tape running inside it. Think Moody Blues..

Mellotron. I tend to think of Peter Sellers shagging Princess Margaret
instead.

A Mellotron also used strips of tapes, not loops. These were rewound
under tension once released, but it did mean that you couldn't sustain
a note indefinitely, only for a few seconds.

On Wed, 27 Aug 2008 14:01:31 +0100, stuart noble
wrote:

Stephen Howard wrote:
On Wed, 27 Aug 2008 12:06:33 +0100, stuart noble
wrote:

snip


On the whole, jazz fans tend to prefer going to specialist venues -
and with good reason. I once went to see the great Eddie Thompson play
in a bar in Essex...and there was a guy shoving coins in a fruit
machine for half the first set. The landlord refused to switch the
machine off.

Should be interesting over the next decade or so, with the influx of
decent and extremely cheap instruments from China.


The only semi-serious jazz venues in London seem to be The Vortex and
The 606. Ronnie's has become the typical corporate night club, which I
guess was inevitable, and the pizza houses don't do it for me. Hovering
waiters etc.
I think young British players are perhaps trying too hard to be
innovative and have forgotten how to enjoy themselves.

Depends what you mean by 'serious'. In 'big name' terms, perhaps - but
there are some very seriously good players to be seen at places like
the legendary Bull's Head, Dover St. Wine Bar, Jazz Cafe etc.

I'd disagree with your statement about young British jazzers, mostly
on the basis that I get to meet or hear about a lot of them ( as you
might imagine ), and they seem to be thoroughly enjoying themselves.
Check out someone like Paul Booth or Dunstan Coulber, for instance.

Regards,



--
Stephen Howard - Woodwind repairs & period restorations
www.shwoodwind.co.uk
Emails to: showard{whoisat}shwoodwind{dot}co{dot}uk

In article et,
Dave Liquorice wrote:
Ultimately the problems of doing accurate SYNTHESIS were overcome by
the art of sampling. Rather like the original ..bugger I forget the
name - you know with a million lops of tape running inside it. Think
Moody Blues..

The Moody Blues used a Mellotron http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mellotron

Interesting history and development. They don't make 'em like that
anymore.

There was a sound FX one in the sound library at Teddington Studios when I
worked there. Dunno what happened to it - probably skipped. They were
never quality devices due to the slow tape speed and azimuth problems. But
a novel idea in its day.

--
*Therapy is expensive, poppin' bubble wrap is cheap! You choose.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
stuart noble wrote:
Weird this jazz thing. It never actually dies, but it's been on the
verge of it for the last 50 years. Can't fill the back room of a pub for
a jazz gig these days.

The Bulls Head Barnes manages - at least when I go there.

--
Small asylum seeker wanted as mud flap, must be flexible and willing to travel

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Wed, 27 Aug 2008 19:39:09 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
stuart noble wrote:
Weird this jazz thing. It never actually dies, but it's been on the
verge of it for the last 50 years. Can't fill the back room of a pub for
a jazz gig these days.

The Bulls Head Barnes manages - at least when I go there.

I used to work with a chap called Archie, a jazz bassist, and when I
mentioned I was going to the Bull's Head for the very first time he
told me to be sure to buy the barman a drink - he gave no reason, but
said I should not forget to do so and that I would find out why.

So, I pitched up at the pub about 30 minutes before the gig started,
bought a pint and duly asked the barman if he'd have one himself.

The place began to fill up, so I grabbed a seat and settled down to
listen to the band.
Come half time and barely before the cymbals had come to rest, the bar
was packed solid with punters trying to get a drink. I stood at the
back of a considerable crush...and then to my complete surprise a hand
appeared above the melee and a loud ( Scottish ) voice said "Here you
go, Sir" and the crowd parted as the barman held out my pint.

Regards,



--
Stephen Howard - Woodwind repairs & period restorations
http://www.shwoodwind.co.uk
Emails to: showard{who is at}shwoodwind{dot}co{dot}uk