I've just discovered that my mother has been robbed --- sorry, I mean
had her windows replaced --- by those bottom-feeding scum at Anglian.

In the gable end of her 1960's bungalow is a twelve foot long by six
foot high picture window. The replacement window (like the one it's
replaced) is in 3x four foot wide sections.

Since it was replaced a fortnight ago, a triangle of brickwork 12 foot
across by ten courses high has detached itself from the rest of the
wall along the mortar lines. At its widest, the gap that's opened up
is 6 to 7mm wide.

I imagine that, when confronted, they'll say that it just needs
repointing. Apart from looking crap if the mortar lines vary by up to
7mm, it seems to me that it needs a lintel installing and rebuilding
properly, and that they shouldn't have let this happen.

The original wooden window was replaced with UPVC by a local company
about 20 years ago and there was never any problem with moving
brickwork.

Also, if you rap lightly on the pane at one end, the pane at the other
wobbles visibly back and forth, suggesting the whole thing is as
flimsy as ****.

Am I worrying unnecessarily about this or does it need major building
work to correct?

Is it their responsibility?

Is it worth contacting the BCO?

Additionally, around the nine windows and two doors they've replaced,
they've smashed bricks around every single opening. Prior to this,
the brickwork was in perfect condition - 40-odd years old, weathered
but whole and entire. Now there are great chunks missing out of the
bricks where some ape has used a crowbar. In some cases, there's a
third of the brick face missing and there're up to half a dozen bricks
damaged round each window. I can't see any way that these can ever be
repaired successfully. Sure you could drill them out and find
matching bricks but they'll still stand out. Is there any way this
eyesore can be minimised?

Again, am I being unreasonable in thinking that you could remove the
previous twenty-year old UPVC units cleanly by simply taking out the
sealed units and unscrewing the frames? Or cutting the silicone and
putting a hacksaw thru the fixings?

They've smashed the granite kitchen window sill that matched the
worktops.

They've also smashed half a dozen bathroom tiles and botched it by
covering the lower half of each side of the window reveal with a bit
of plastic fascia on which you can still see the saw marks.

The new kitchen door swings shut of its own accord.

And the completely out-of-place "wood-effect gothic" garage door (the
finish of which looks like it was sculpted by a paralytic chimp) which
was supposed to have darkened windows actually has windows that make
the contents visible to any passing scrote.

And I won't mention that they sold a remote controlled garage door
opener to a 75-year old disabled woman who doesn't drive or own a car.

I've just read the "guarantee" she was given - which is actually an
invitation to be added to mailing lists for everything from pet food
to Anglian's mortage advisory service. The guarantee is two years
(that's less than you'd get on a ten-quid radio at Aldi) and
specifically excludes things like weather damage (after all who's
going to leave their windows outside?) or settlement. There isn't
even a postal address - and of course you can't send recorded delivery
letters to a PO box.


Obviously, in an ideal world, everyone connected with this company
would be herded into a sports stadium and machine gunned but in
reality what's to be done? Is there any way of getting redress
against these vermin?

mike coughed up some electrons that declared:

I've just discovered that my mother has been robbed --- sorry, I mean
had her windows replaced --- by those bottom-feeding scum at Anglian.

In the gable end of her 1960's bungalow is a twelve foot long by six
foot high picture window. The replacement window (like the one it's
replaced) is in 3x four foot wide sections.

Since it was replaced a fortnight ago, a triangle of brickwork 12 foot
across by ten courses high has detached itself from the rest of the
wall along the mortar lines. At its widest, the gap that's opened up
is 6 to 7mm wide.

I imagine that, when confronted, they'll say that it just needs
repointing. Apart from looking crap if the mortar lines vary by up to
7mm, it seems to me that it needs a lintel installing and rebuilding
properly, and that they shouldn't have let this happen.

The original wooden window was replaced with UPVC by a local company
about 20 years ago and there was never any problem with moving
brickwork.

Also, if you rap lightly on the pane at one end, the pane at the other
wobbles visibly back and forth, suggesting the whole thing is as
flimsy as ****.

Am I worrying unnecessarily about this or does it need major building
work to correct?

Is it their responsibility?

AFAICS they've totally screwed it up without excuse. I would not be happy
unless the work was rectified and I don't mean stuffing some mortar in the
gap.

Is it worth contacting the BCO?

Maybe, especially for an opinion on the lack of proper support of the
brickwork.

1) Complaint to Anglian in writing and follow up with one phone call. If no
promise of action in 7 days;

2) Call FENSA. This is the professional body for fenestration work, akin to
CORGI (akin in the loosest possible way, but akin nonetheless).

3) Trading standards + local newspaper. Maybe Watchdog (is that still on) or
Rogue Traders. Use these threats as appropriate to expediate 1 + 2 if they
don't roll over immediately.

Can't promise a result, but it's what I'd do.

Additionally, around the nine windows and two doors they've replaced,
they've smashed bricks around every single opening. Prior to this,
the brickwork was in perfect condition - 40-odd years old, weathered
but whole and entire. Now there are great chunks missing out of the
bricks where some ape has used a crowbar. In some cases, there's a
third of the brick face missing and there're up to half a dozen bricks
damaged round each window. I can't see any way that these can ever be
repaired successfully. Sure you could drill them out and find
matching bricks but they'll still stand out. Is there any way this
eyesore can be minimised?

Again, am I being unreasonable in thinking that you could remove the
previous twenty-year old UPVC units cleanly by simply taking out the
sealed units and unscrewing the frames? Or cutting the silicone and
putting a hacksaw thru the fixings?

They've smashed the granite kitchen window sill that matched the
worktops.

They've also smashed half a dozen bathroom tiles and botched it by
covering the lower half of each side of the window reveal with a bit
of plastic fascia on which you can still see the saw marks.

The new kitchen door swings shut of its own accord.

And the completely out-of-place "wood-effect gothic" garage door (the
finish of which looks like it was sculpted by a paralytic chimp) which
was supposed to have darkened windows actually has windows that make
the contents visible to any passing scrote.

And I won't mention that they sold a remote controlled garage door
opener to a 75-year old disabled woman who doesn't drive or own a car.

I've just read the "guarantee" she was given - which is actually an
invitation to be added to mailing lists for everything from pet food
to Anglian's mortage advisory service. The guarantee is two years
(that's less than you'd get on a ten-quid radio at Aldi) and
specifically excludes things like weather damage (after all who's
going to leave their windows outside?) or settlement. There isn't
even a postal address - and of course you can't send recorded delivery
letters to a PO box.


Obviously, in an ideal world, everyone connected with this company
would be herded into a sports stadium and machine gunned but in
reality what's to be done? Is there any way of getting redress
against these vermin?

Include the whole lot in 1, 2 and 3 above.

Perhaps try uk.legal.moderated too.

Cheers

Tim

On 18 Aug, 19:49, mike wrote:
I've just discovered that my mother has been robbed *--- sorry, I mean
had her windows replaced --- by those bottom-feeding scum at Anglian.



Dear Mike
It seems to me that you have a considerable number of legitimate
complaints

I am no lawyer but on the basis you indemnify me for any loss by
taking my free advice it is as follows


Since it was replaced a fortnight ago, a triangle of brickwork 12 foot
across by ten courses high has detached itself from the rest of the
wall along the mortar lines. At its widest, the gap that's opened up
is 6 to 7mm wide.

It is my suspicion that the original window which was probably wood
acted as the support and that the replacement 20 years ago did the
same
If there is no lintel then they should have either said "Sorry we
cannot proceeed until you put in a lintel" or put in a suitable
replacement window. As the window is supposed to be a supporting one
(I suspect) the one they HAVE put in is not fit for the purpose
intended and you should reject it BUT ONLY AFTER YOU HAVE ESTABLISHED
THAT MY GUESS IS CORRECT
Get in an engineer or surveyor and find out the facts
That sort of failure mode is classic absent or broken lintel






I imagine that, when confronted, they'll say that it just needs
repointing.

Get a surveyor to state what DOES need doing and dont let them even
try to con you with their opinion

Apart from looking crap if the mortar lines vary by up to
7mm, it seems to me that it needs a lintel installing and rebuilding
properly, and that they shouldn't have let this happen.

Probably right

The original wooden window was replaced with UPVC by a local company
about 20 years ago and there was never any problem with moving
brickwork.

Also, if you rap lightly on the pane at one end, the pane at the other
wobbles visibly back and forth, suggesting the whole thing is as
flimsy as ****.

Add this to your list of complaints of not being fit for purpose

Am I worrying unnecessarily about this

No but I would stop worrying and get on with sorting them out!

or does it need major building
work to correct?
I would not call a lintel "major" work!

Is it their responsibility?

Yes on the basis of the facts presented

Is it worth contacting the BCO?

yes

Additionally, around the nine windows and two doors they've replaced,
they've smashed bricks around every single opening.

Insist on the bricks being replaced to standard even if they have to
cut out carefully and put them back to front or have some purpose made


Prior to this,
the brickwork was in perfect condition - 40-odd years old, weathered
but whole and entire. Now there are great chunks missing out of the
bricks where some ape has used a crowbar.

Wholly unaceptable Take photos asap for the record and the court case
if need be

In some cases, there's a
third of the brick face missing and there're up to half a dozen bricks
damaged round each window. I can't see any way that these can ever be
repaired successfully.

Why not? you can cut them out and put in new ones or swap them round
or take bricks out from somewhere not important and put them in place
and where it is not in view put new matching ones
Care with a suitable plugging chisel or masonry saw or even Fein
Multimaster should enable this


Sure you could drill them out and find
matching bricks but they'll still stand out. Is there any way this
eyesore can be minimised?

See above

Again, am I being unreasonable in thinking that you could remove the
previous twenty-year old UPVC units cleanly by simply taking out the
sealed units and unscrewing the frames? Or cutting the silicone and
putting a hacksaw thru the fixings?

No

They've smashed the granite kitchen window sill that matched the
worktops.

Insist on a replacement that is matching and made to measure




They've also smashed half a dozen bathroom tiles and botched it by
covering the lower half of each side of the window reveal with a bit
of plastic fascia on which you can still see the saw marks.

Insist on replacement of tiles to match even if it cost them an arm
and a leg
Go for the gonads

The new kitchen door swings shut of its own accord.

measure the verticals or check they have not put on rising butts or
the like

And the completely out-of-place "wood-effect gothic" garage door (the
finish of which looks like it was sculpted by a paralytic chimp) which
was supposed to have darkened windows actually has windows that make
the contents visible to any passing scrote.

This depends on what your mother ordered - she is the client not you
so all this will have to be done by her or with you acting as her
agent
I cannot see recompence for artistic or aesthetic complaints


And I won't mention that they sold a remote controlled garage door
opener to a 75-year old disabled woman who doesn't drive or own a car.

Mmm tricky this
as it might well be useful to her
would not argue this one particularly if she agreed to it


I've just read the "guarantee" she was given - which is actually an
invitation to be added to mailing lists for everything from pet food
to Anglian's mortage advisory service. The guarantee is two years
(that's less than you'd get on a ten-quid radio at Aldi) and
specifically excludes things like weather damage (after all who's
going to leave their windows outside?) or settlement. There isn't
even a postal address - and of course you can't send recorded delivery
letters to a PO box.

Guarantees are all worthless - find out the legal address from Company
House if you are fussed

Obviously, in an ideal world, everyone connected with this company
would be herded into a sports stadium and machine gunned but in
reality what's to be done? Is there any way of getting redress
against these vermin?

It is called the County Court
Read up on how to sue them

Write a polite letter (no guns) stating you complaints
Get estimates for fixing them
Reject the window outright

Invite them to fix it and absent that within say 2 weeks tell them you
will get someone elseto and sue them in the C court

Draft out a C court summons for the money to get it done and send them
the draft summons and see what happens

If nothing get it done and if your Mum needs to borrow to do it charge
interest as well

Make sure it is not a franchise and that they have assets first

Chris G

On 18 Aug, 20:14, wrote:
On 18 Aug, 19:49, mike wrote:

I've just discovered that my mother has been robbed *--- sorry, I mean
had her windows replaced --- by those bottom-feeding scum at Anglian.

Dear Mike
It seems to me that you have a considerable number of legitimate
complaints

I am no lawyer but on the basis you indemnify me for any loss by
taking my free advice it is as follows

Since it was replaced a fortnight ago, a triangle of brickwork 12 foot
across by ten courses high has detached itself from the rest of the
wall along the mortar lines. *At its widest, the gap that's opened up
is 6 to 7mm wide.

It is my suspicion that the original window which was probably wood
acted as the support and that the replacement 20 years ago did the
same
If there is no lintel then they should have either said "Sorry we
cannot proceeed until you put in a lintel" or put in a suitable
replacement window. *As the window is supposed to be a supporting one
(I suspect) the one they *HAVE put in is not fit for the purpose
intended and you should reject it BUT ONLY AFTER YOU HAVE ESTABLISHED
THAT MY GUESS IS CORRECT
Get in an engineer or surveyor and find out the facts
That sort of failure mode is classic absent or broken lintel



I imagine that, when confronted, they'll say that it just needs
repointing.

Get a surveyor to state what DOES need doing and dont let them even
try to con you with their opinion

Apart from looking crap if the mortar lines vary by up to

7mm, *it seems to me that it needs a lintel installing and rebuilding
properly, and that they shouldn't have let this happen.

Probably right



The original wooden window was replaced with UPVC by a local company
about 20 years ago and there was never any problem with moving
brickwork.

Also, if you rap lightly on the pane at one end, the pane at the other
wobbles visibly back and forth, suggesting the whole thing is as
flimsy as ****.

Add this to your list of complaints of not being fit for purpose



Am I worrying unnecessarily about this

No but I would stop worrying and get on with sorting them out!

or does it need major building work to correct?

I would not call a lintel "major" work!



Is it their responsibility?

Yes on the basis of the facts presented



Is it worth contacting the BCO?

yes



Additionally, around the nine windows and two doors they've replaced,
they've smashed bricks around every single opening.

Insist on the bricks being replaced to standard even if they have to
cut out carefully and put them back to front or have some purpose made

Prior to this,

the brickwork was in perfect condition - 40-odd years old, weathered
but whole and entire. *Now there are great chunks missing out of the
bricks where some ape has used a crowbar.

Wholly unaceptable Take photos asap for the record and the court case
if need be

In some cases, there's a

third of the brick face missing and there're up to half a dozen bricks
damaged round each window. *I can't see any way that these can ever be
repaired successfully.

Why not? you can cut them out and put in new ones or swap them round
or take bricks out from somewhere not important and put them in place
and where it is not in view put new matching ones
Care with a suitable plugging chisel or masonry saw or even Fein
Multimaster should enable this

Sure you could drill them out and find

matching bricks but they'll still stand out. *Is there any way this
eyesore can be minimised?

See above



Again, am I being unreasonable in thinking that you could remove the
previous twenty-year old UPVC units cleanly by simply taking out the
sealed units and unscrewing the frames? *Or cutting the silicone and
putting a hacksaw thru the fixings?

No

They've smashed the granite kitchen window sill that matched the
worktops.

Insist on a replacement that is matching and made to measure

They've also smashed half a dozen bathroom tiles and botched it by
covering the lower half of each side of the window reveal with a bit
of plastic fascia on which you can still see the saw marks.

Insist on replacement of tiles to match even *if it cost them an arm
and a leg
Go for the gonads



The new kitchen door swings shut of its own accord.

measure the verticals or check they have not put on rising butts or
the like



And the completely out-of-place "wood-effect gothic" garage door (the
finish of which looks like it was sculpted by a paralytic chimp) which
was supposed to have darkened windows actually has windows that make
the contents visible to any passing scrote.

This depends on what your mother ordered - she is the client not you
so all this will have to be done by her or with you acting as her
agent
I cannot see recompence for artistic or aesthetic complaints



And I won't mention that they sold a remote controlled garage door
opener to a 75-year old disabled woman who doesn't drive or own a car.

Mmm tricky this
as it might well be useful to her
would not argue this one particularly if she agreed to it



I've just read the "guarantee" she was given *- which is actually an
invitation to be added to mailing lists for everything from pet food
to Anglian's mortage advisory service. *The guarantee is two years
(that's less than you'd get on a ten-quid radio at Aldi) and
specifically excludes things like weather damage (after all who's
going to leave their windows outside?) or settlement. *There isn't
even a postal address - and of course you can't send recorded delivery
letters to a PO box.

Guarantees are all worthless - find out the legal address from Company
House if you are fussed



Obviously, in an ideal world, everyone connected with this company
would be herded into a sports stadium and machine gunned but in
reality what's to be done? *Is there any way of getting redress
against these vermin?

It is called the County Court
Read up on how to sue them

Write a polite letter (no guns) stating you complaints
Get estimates for fixing them
Reject the window outright

Invite them to fix it and absent that within say 2 weeks tell them you
will get someone elseto and sue them in the C court

Draft out a C court summons for the money to get it done and send them
the draft summons and see what happens

If nothing get it done and if your Mum needs to borrow to do it charge
interest as well

Make sure it is not a franchise and that they have assets first

Chris G

This all sounds like good advice to me.

I'd just emphasise the importance of putting everything in writing,
and in particular (as Chris says) explicitly rejecting the faulty
window which they've fitted ASAP. I seem to recall that if you don't
do this promptly then you will be deemed to have accepted it by
acquiescing, which you certainly don't want to happen.

Very importantly, you need to establish immediately exactly which
company the contract was with by looking carefully at the paperwork.
I've no idea how Anglia works. It may be that your mother's contract
was with Anglia itself (Anglia Windows plc, or whatever it may be
called), and they subcontracted it to the local cowboys. That would be
the best situation, because if push came to shove it will be Anglia
you would sue and it will probably have assets and be worth suing. If
it turns out that the contract was with Gaz & Darren (Cowboys) Ltd you
may be on a hiding to nothing. They will be trading behind a limited
company who's assets at best will be a beaten up van and half a dozen
polythene windows minus a queue of other creditors. I would suggest
once you have found out which company the contract was with you get
onto the Companies House website and spend a tenner on a company
search and have a butchers at their latest balance sheet to see
whether they might be worth chasing. The search will also give you the
address of their registered office, which is the address to which you
should send all correspondence.

Cheers!

Martin

On Aug 18, 8:54*pm, Martin Pentreath
wrote:
On 18 Aug, 20:14, wrote:
On 18 Aug, 19:49, mike wrote:

I've just discovered that my mother has been robbed *--- sorry, I mean
had her windows replaced --- by those bottom-feeding scum at Anglian.

Dear Mike
It seems to me that you have a considerable number of legitimate
complaints

I am no lawyer but on the basis you indemnify me for any loss by
taking my free advice it is as follows

Since it was replaced a fortnight ago, a triangle of brickwork 12 foot
across by ten courses high has detached itself from the rest of the
wall along the mortar lines. *At its widest, the gap that's opened up
is 6 to 7mm wide.

It is my suspicion that the original window which was probably wood
acted as the support and that the replacement 20 years ago did the
same
If there is no lintel then they should have either said "Sorry we
cannot proceeed until you put in a lintel" or put in a suitable
replacement window. *As the window is supposed to be a supporting one
(I suspect) the one they *HAVE put in is not fit for the purpose
intended and you should reject it BUT ONLY AFTER YOU HAVE ESTABLISHED
THAT MY GUESS IS CORRECT
Get in an engineer or surveyor and find out the facts
That sort of failure mode is classic absent or broken lintel

I imagine that, when confronted, they'll say that it just needs
repointing.

Get a surveyor to state what DOES need doing and dont let them even
try to con you with their opinion

Apart from looking crap if the mortar lines vary by up to

7mm, *it seems to me that it needs a lintel installing and rebuilding
properly, and that they shouldn't have let this happen.

Probably right

The original wooden window was replaced with UPVC by a local company
about 20 years ago and there was never any problem with moving
brickwork.

Also, if you rap lightly on the pane at one end, the pane at the other
wobbles visibly back and forth, suggesting the whole thing is as
flimsy as ****.

Add this to your list of complaints of not being fit for purpose

Am I worrying unnecessarily about this

No but I would stop worrying and get on with sorting them out!

or does it need major building work to correct?

I would not call a lintel "major" work!

Is it their responsibility?

Yes on the basis of the facts presented

Is it worth contacting the BCO?

yes

Additionally, around the nine windows and two doors they've replaced,
they've smashed bricks around every single opening.

Insist on the bricks being replaced to standard even if they have to
cut out carefully and put them back to front or have some purpose made

Prior to this,

the brickwork was in perfect condition - 40-odd years old, weathered
but whole and entire. *Now there are great chunks missing out of the
bricks where some ape has used a crowbar.

Wholly unaceptable Take photos asap for the record and the court case
if need be

In some cases, there's a

third of the brick face missing and there're up to half a dozen bricks
damaged round each window. *I can't see any way that these can ever be
repaired successfully.

Why not? you can cut them out and put in new ones or swap them round
or take bricks out from somewhere not important and put them in place
and where it is not in view put new matching ones
Care with a suitable plugging chisel or masonry saw or even Fein
Multimaster should enable this

Sure you could drill them out and find

matching bricks but they'll still stand out. *Is there any way this
eyesore can be minimised?

See above

Again, am I being unreasonable in thinking that you could remove the
previous twenty-year old UPVC units cleanly by simply taking out the
sealed units and unscrewing the frames? *Or cutting the silicone and
putting a hacksaw thru the fixings?

No

They've smashed the granite kitchen window sill that matched the
worktops.

Insist on a replacement that is matching and made to measure

They've also smashed half a dozen bathroom tiles and botched it by
covering the lower half of each side of the window reveal with a bit
of plastic fascia on which you can still see the saw marks.

Insist on replacement of tiles to match even *if it cost them an arm
and a leg
Go for the gonads

The new kitchen door swings shut of its own accord.

measure the verticals or check they have not put on rising butts or
the like

And the completely out-of-place "wood-effect gothic" garage door (the
finish of which looks like it was sculpted by a paralytic chimp) which
was supposed to have darkened windows actually has windows that make
the contents visible to any passing scrote.

This depends on what your mother ordered - she is the client not you
so all this will have to be done by her or with you acting as her
agent
I cannot see recompence for artistic or aesthetic complaints

And I won't mention that they sold a remote controlled garage door
opener to a 75-year old disabled woman who doesn't drive or own a car..

Mmm tricky this
as it might well be useful to her
would not argue this one particularly if she agreed to it

I've just read the "guarantee" she was given *- which is actually an
invitation to be added to mailing lists for everything from pet food
to Anglian's mortage advisory service. *The guarantee is two years
(that's less than you'd get on a ten-quid radio at Aldi) and
specifically excludes things like weather damage (after all who's
going to leave their windows outside?) or settlement. *There isn't
even a postal address - and of course you can't send recorded delivery
letters to a PO box.

Guarantees are all worthless - find out the legal address from Company
House if you are fussed

Obviously, in an ideal world, everyone connected with this company
would be herded into a sports stadium and machine gunned but in
reality what's to be done? *Is there any way of getting redress
against these vermin?

It is called the County Court
Read up on how to sue them

Write a polite letter (no guns) stating you complaints
Get estimates for fixing them
Reject the window outright

Invite them to fix it and absent that within say 2 weeks tell them you
will get someone elseto and sue them in the C court

Draft out a C court summons for the money to get it done and send them
the draft summons and see what happens

If nothing get it done and if your Mum needs to borrow to do it charge
interest as well

Make sure it is not a franchise and that they have assets first

Chris G

This all sounds like good advice to me.

I'd just emphasise the importance of putting everything in writing,
and in particular (as Chris says) explicitly rejecting the faulty
window which they've fitted ASAP. I seem to recall that if you don't
do this promptly then you will be deemed to have accepted it by
acquiescing, which you certainly don't want to happen.

Very importantly, you need to establish immediately exactly which
company the contract was with by looking carefully at the paperwork.
I've no idea how Anglia works. It may be that your mother's contract
was with Anglia itself (Anglia Windows plc, or whatever it may be
called), and they subcontracted it to the local cowboys. That would be
the best situation, because if push came to shove it will be Anglia
you would sue and it will probably have assets and be worth suing. If
it turns out that the contract was with Gaz & Darren (Cowboys) Ltd you
may be on a hiding to nothing. They will be trading behind a limited
company who's assets at best will be a beaten up van and half a dozen
polythene windows minus a queue of other creditors. I would suggest
once you have found out which company the contract was with you get
onto the Companies House website and spend a tenner on a company
search and have a butchers at their latest balance sheet to see
whether they might be worth chasing. The search will also give you the
address of their registered office, which is the address to which you
should send all correspondence.

Cheers!

Martin


Your initial legal threat should be for every penny you can justify or
make them think a sympathetic court might award if youre lucky. And be
sure to include all costs, including legal, and the surveyor/engineer
drawing up of the works to be carried out. Everything, cost your time
too, every detail.

The other point is that since this is a major chain, they stand to
lose a lot more if you shout about it than they would through a court
case, so you may find that your statement of being very peed off and
inteending to post all this all voer the place might actually have
more effect. Standing on the public pavement outside a branch telling
potential customers whats going on is also a very effective way of
motivating a company to address your complaints, can cost them a lot
of business.


NT

PS this info is worth what you paid for it, - but do let us know if
you get arrested

wrote:
On Aug 18, 8:54 pm, Martin Pentreath
wrote:
On 18 Aug, 20:14, wrote:
On 18 Aug, 19:49, mike wrote:

I've just discovered that my mother has been robbed --- sorry, I mean
had her windows replaced --- by those bottom-feeding scum at Anglian.
Dear Mike
It seems to me that you have a considerable number of legitimate
complaints
I am no lawyer but on the basis you indemnify me for any loss by
taking my free advice it is as follows
Since it was replaced a fortnight ago, a triangle of brickwork 12 foot
across by ten courses high has detached itself from the rest of the
wall along the mortar lines. At its widest, the gap that's opened up
is 6 to 7mm wide.
It is my suspicion that the original window which was probably wood
acted as the support and that the replacement 20 years ago did the
same
If there is no lintel then they should have either said "Sorry we
cannot proceeed until you put in a lintel" or put in a suitable
replacement window. As the window is supposed to be a supporting one
(I suspect) the one they HAVE put in is not fit for the purpose
intended and you should reject it BUT ONLY AFTER YOU HAVE ESTABLISHED
THAT MY GUESS IS CORRECT
Get in an engineer or surveyor and find out the facts
That sort of failure mode is classic absent or broken lintel
I imagine that, when confronted, they'll say that it just needs
repointing.
Get a surveyor to state what DOES need doing and dont let them even
try to con you with their opinion
Apart from looking crap if the mortar lines vary by up to
7mm, it seems to me that it needs a lintel installing and rebuilding
properly, and that they shouldn't have let this happen.
Probably right
The original wooden window was replaced with UPVC by a local company
about 20 years ago and there was never any problem with moving
brickwork.
Also, if you rap lightly on the pane at one end, the pane at the other
wobbles visibly back and forth, suggesting the whole thing is as
flimsy as ****.
Add this to your list of complaints of not being fit for purpose
Am I worrying unnecessarily about this
No but I would stop worrying and get on with sorting them out!
or does it need major building work to correct?
I would not call a lintel "major" work!
Is it their responsibility?
Yes on the basis of the facts presented
Is it worth contacting the BCO?
yes
Additionally, around the nine windows and two doors they've replaced,
they've smashed bricks around every single opening.
Insist on the bricks being replaced to standard even if they have to
cut out carefully and put them back to front or have some purpose made
Prior to this,
the brickwork was in perfect condition - 40-odd years old, weathered
but whole and entire. Now there are great chunks missing out of the
bricks where some ape has used a crowbar.
Wholly unaceptable Take photos asap for the record and the court case
if need be
In some cases, there's a
third of the brick face missing and there're up to half a dozen bricks
damaged round each window. I can't see any way that these can ever be
repaired successfully.
Why not? you can cut them out and put in new ones or swap them round
or take bricks out from somewhere not important and put them in place
and where it is not in view put new matching ones
Care with a suitable plugging chisel or masonry saw or even Fein
Multimaster should enable this
Sure you could drill them out and find
matching bricks but they'll still stand out. Is there any way this
eyesore can be minimised?
See above
Again, am I being unreasonable in thinking that you could remove the
previous twenty-year old UPVC units cleanly by simply taking out the
sealed units and unscrewing the frames? Or cutting the silicone and
putting a hacksaw thru the fixings?
No
They've smashed the granite kitchen window sill that matched the
worktops.
Insist on a replacement that is matching and made to measure
They've also smashed half a dozen bathroom tiles and botched it by
covering the lower half of each side of the window reveal with a bit
of plastic fascia on which you can still see the saw marks.
Insist on replacement of tiles to match even if it cost them an arm
and a leg
Go for the gonads
The new kitchen door swings shut of its own accord.
measure the verticals or check they have not put on rising butts or
the like
And the completely out-of-place "wood-effect gothic" garage door (the
finish of which looks like it was sculpted by a paralytic chimp) which
was supposed to have darkened windows actually has windows that make
the contents visible to any passing scrote.
This depends on what your mother ordered - she is the client not you
so all this will have to be done by her or with you acting as her
agent
I cannot see recompence for artistic or aesthetic complaints
And I won't mention that they sold a remote controlled garage door
opener to a 75-year old disabled woman who doesn't drive or own a car.
Mmm tricky this
as it might well be useful to her
would not argue this one particularly if she agreed to it
I've just read the "guarantee" she was given - which is actually an
invitation to be added to mailing lists for everything from pet food
to Anglian's mortage advisory service. The guarantee is two years
(that's less than you'd get on a ten-quid radio at Aldi) and
specifically excludes things like weather damage (after all who's
going to leave their windows outside?) or settlement. There isn't
even a postal address - and of course you can't send recorded delivery
letters to a PO box.
Guarantees are all worthless - find out the legal address from Company
House if you are fussed
Obviously, in an ideal world, everyone connected with this company
would be herded into a sports stadium and machine gunned but in
reality what's to be done? Is there any way of getting redress
against these vermin?
It is called the County Court
Read up on how to sue them
Write a polite letter (no guns) stating you complaints
Get estimates for fixing them
Reject the window outright
Invite them to fix it and absent that within say 2 weeks tell them you
will get someone elseto and sue them in the C court
Draft out a C court summons for the money to get it done and send them
the draft summons and see what happens
If nothing get it done and if your Mum needs to borrow to do it charge
interest as well
Make sure it is not a franchise and that they have assets first
Chris G
This all sounds like good advice to me.

I'd just emphasise the importance of putting everything in writing,
and in particular (as Chris says) explicitly rejecting the faulty
window which they've fitted ASAP. I seem to recall that if you don't
do this promptly then you will be deemed to have accepted it by
acquiescing, which you certainly don't want to happen.

Very importantly, you need to establish immediately exactly which
company the contract was with by looking carefully at the paperwork.
I've no idea how Anglia works. It may be that your mother's contract
was with Anglia itself (Anglia Windows plc, or whatever it may be
called), and they subcontracted it to the local cowboys. That would be
the best situation, because if push came to shove it will be Anglia
you would sue and it will probably have assets and be worth suing. If
it turns out that the contract was with Gaz & Darren (Cowboys) Ltd you
may be on a hiding to nothing. They will be trading behind a limited
company who's assets at best will be a beaten up van and half a dozen
polythene windows minus a queue of other creditors. I would suggest
once you have found out which company the contract was with you get
onto the Companies House website and spend a tenner on a company
search and have a butchers at their latest balance sheet to see
whether they might be worth chasing. The search will also give you the
address of their registered office, which is the address to which you
should send all correspondence.

Cheers!

Martin


Your initial legal threat should be for every penny you can justify or
make them think a sympathetic court might award if youre lucky. And be
sure to include all costs, including legal, and the surveyor/engineer
drawing up of the works to be carried out. Everything, cost your time
too, every detail.

The other point is that since this is a major chain, they stand to
lose a lot more if you shout about it than they would through a court
case, so you may find that your statement of being very peed off and
inteending to post all this all voer the place might actually have
more effect. Standing on the public pavement outside a branch telling
potential customers whats going on is also a very effective way of
motivating a company to address your complaints, can cost them a lot
of business.


NT

PS this info is worth what you paid for it, - but do let us know if
you get arrested

Seems like Anglian have not changed in 25 years despite their changes of
ownership. The only thing that used to get them to do anything quickly
was to hang out a huge sign for everyone to see and send a photo of it
to them.
Experts in taking out load bearing supports and replacing them with
lightweight aluminium or PVCu. Get some props in quick.

wrote in message
...

Your initial legal threat should be for every penny you can justify or
make them think a sympathetic court might award if youre lucky. And be
sure to include all costs, including legal, and the surveyor/engineer
drawing up of the works to be carried out. Everything, cost your time
too, every detail.

The other point is that since this is a major chain, they stand to
lose a lot more if you shout about it than they would through a court
case, so you may find that your statement of being very peed off and
inteending to post all this all voer the place might actually have
more effect. Standing on the public pavement outside a branch telling
potential customers whats going on is also a very effective way of
motivating a company to address your complaints, can cost them a lot
of business.


NT

PS this info is worth what you paid for it, - but do let us know if
you get arrested

******************************

I remember buying a car from a garage and was promised the earth before I
parted with my cash. After finding numerous faults, the garage were very
reluctant to repair them but done so out of the "goodness of their heart".

After this the car broke down 3 times all within the first week of buying it
and the garage refused to repair it, basically told me to p*ss off!! I
eventually got it going and went straight to the garage and parked over
their drive and told them I wasn't moving until they at least acknowledged
the problem. They refused and phoned the police. Police came and told me to
roll the car forward 3 feet to clear their drive but I was more than welcome
to stay and protest at their gates.

It only took their first prospective customer to appear and for me to tell
them how I'd been treated for the garage to agree to sort my car, which
turned out to be a mixture of immobiliser, batteries and alternator.

Steven.

Thanks for all the advice so far, guys.

I just phoned the BCO. He said that as Anglian are FENSA registered
they can self-certify and essentially tell you any old **** if you
challenge them. However since this is a 12 foot span, 10 courses, 6mm
gap he'll be out within the hour to see if they've created a dangerous
structure.

I'll keep you posted.

mike wrote:
I've just discovered that my mother has been robbed --- sorry, I mean
had her windows replaced --- by those bottom-feeding scum at Anglian.

In the gable end of her 1960's bungalow is a twelve foot long by six
foot high picture window. The replacement window (like the one it's
replaced) is in 3x four foot wide sections.

Since it was replaced a fortnight ago, a triangle of brickwork 12 foot
across by ten courses high has detached itself from the rest of the
wall along the mortar lines. At its widest, the gap that's opened up
is 6 to 7mm wide.

I imagine that, when confronted, they'll say that it just needs
repointing. Apart from looking crap if the mortar lines vary by up to
7mm, it seems to me that it needs a lintel installing and rebuilding
properly, and that they shouldn't have let this happen.

The original wooden window was replaced with UPVC by a local company
about 20 years ago and there was never any problem with moving
brickwork.

Also, if you rap lightly on the pane at one end, the pane at the other
wobbles visibly back and forth, suggesting the whole thing is as
flimsy as ****.

Am I worrying unnecessarily about this or does it need major building
work to correct?

Is it their responsibility?

Is it worth contacting the BCO?


Get a firm of structural engineers in and pay for a report.

Then engage a solicitor, and demand that they do the job properly under
the aegis of the engineer, or pay you for all expenses and the cost of
rectification.

mike coughed up some electrons that declared:

Thanks for all the advice so far, guys.

I just phoned the BCO. He said that as Anglian are FENSA registered
they can self-certify and essentially tell you any old **** if you
challenge them. However since this is a 12 foot span, 10 courses, 6mm
gap he'll be out within the hour to see if they've created a dangerous
structure.

I'll keep you posted.

Very wise. At least you'll know the extent of the situation soon.

It'll certainly give you some ammunition for no cost, and more importantly,
you'll have an opinion quickly. I agree with other's opinions regarding
rectification. Don't trust Anglian to fix it unless they're being
supervised by someone you trust.

Good luck. Keep us posted.

Cheers

Tim

In article ,
mike writes:
Thanks for all the advice so far, guys.

I just phoned the BCO. He said that as Anglian are FENSA registered
they can self-certify and essentially tell you any old **** if you
challenge them. However since this is a 12 foot span, 10 courses, 6mm
gap he'll be out within the hour to see if they've created a dangerous
structure.

Suggest you take some pictures too.

I'll keep you posted.

From the nearest internet cafe? ;-)

By the way, I would insist on the dropped section being rebuilt
(using the original bricks, unless you can source identical ones).
A large repointed triangle above a window, even if by chance it
was deemed structurally sound, would certainly put me off such a
house, and likely detract from the value. However, sounds like
it's only hanging on by the wall ties. Any sign of the inner
wall doing the same? The inner wall of a cavity will is usually
the more structural of the two.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

HI

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
mike wrote:
I've just discovered that my mother has been robbed --- sorry, I mean
had her windows replaced --- by those bottom-feeding scum at Anglian.

In the gable end of her 1960's bungalow is a twelve foot long by six
foot high picture window. The replacement window (like the one it's
replaced) is in 3x four foot wide sections.

Since it was replaced a fortnight ago, a triangle of brickwork 12 foot
across by ten courses high has detached itself from the rest of the
wall along the mortar lines. At its widest, the gap that's opened up
is 6 to 7mm wide.

I imagine that, when confronted, they'll say that it just needs
repointing. Apart from looking crap if the mortar lines vary by up to
7mm, it seems to me that it needs a lintel installing and rebuilding
properly, and that they shouldn't have let this happen.

The original wooden window was replaced with UPVC by a local company
about 20 years ago and there was never any problem with moving
brickwork.

Also, if you rap lightly on the pane at one end, the pane at the other
wobbles visibly back and forth, suggesting the whole thing is as
flimsy as ****.

Am I worrying unnecessarily about this or does it need major building
work to correct?

Is it their responsibility?

Is it worth contacting the BCO?


Get a firm of structural engineers in and pay for a report.

Then engage a solicitor, and demand that they do the job properly under
the aegis of the engineer, or pay you for all expenses and the cost of
rectification.

Anglian did exactly the sae thing to my late parents' cerarwood bungalow
down in Cornwall (probably about 10 years ago). They ripped out an 18ft
long section of stout Mahogany window frames and fitted some dreadfully
thin UPVC Patio doors. The roof-line sagged by up to 4 inches - which
jammed the doors up solid.

It took over 9 months to get things sorted - with the local office of
Anglian (which seemed to be no more than one man and a dog) pointing
fingers at Head Office - and both of them trying to pass the blame off
onto the other.

In the end, after a report from a qualified Structural Engineer, they
came back and stuck an enormous metal 'I-beam' through the end of the
bungalow, and tied the roof back up to it.

Complete nightmare from start to finish. Anglian's own 'surveyors' are
simply salesmen - and don't have the first idea about anything to do
with structural integrity....

Registered letter to Anglian Head Office - enclosing photographs,
ideally with a big banner clearly visible from the road which says
'Anglian Windows wrecked this house!'

Don't start ot 'play friendly' with them - it'll only delay things.
Start a website - mention Anglian Windows and their shoddy practices on
every web-based forum you can find - generally make a noise.

Fensa are a complete waste of time - and have no interest in policing
their own industry...

Sorry if all this sound a bit impassioned - but I'd hate for your Mum to
have to go through the 9 months of grief and aggravation that my Mum &
Dad suffered....

Good luck with sorting it out
Adrian

Update:

Building Inspector came out from the local council and said that
although it was unlikely to fall down imminently, high winds or future
frost damage could bring it down and that Anglian should have known it
needed a lintel installed. Said the damage bricks could be drilled
out, replaced with similar, specially painted to match existing
weathered look.

Said that Fensa was essentially useless and only meant that the glass
was toughened or whatever required by the regs, not that it was
installed properly.

I called Anglian and told them about the BCO. They said a manger
would call me back and arrange to visit with a builder to see what
needed to be done.

I phoned consumer direct (the front end of Trading Standards these
days) and they said to give 'em two weeks written notice to put the
lintel right quoting Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982. They
also said the fact that they'd damaged dozen of bricks around all the
windows was basically tough **** -- maybe they could replace a few of
the worst bricks but if I object to it looking cosmetically crap, I'd
have to go to court and let a judge decide, which I think is pretty
appalling.

Most importantly they said I couldn't get any one else in to rectify
it -- I have to let the monkeyboys have a go first. Is that true??

Then Anglian phoned back and said they were sending just the bloke in
charge of conservatories (?!!) to have a look at it and see if
anything needed doing. Clearly don't believe the BCO and not
concerned that 82 falling bricks might damage someone or something.

So I have to trek over there again tomorrow (100 mile round trip) but
I'll come back armed with photos.

mike coughed up some electrons that declared:

Update:

Building Inspector came out from the local council and said that
although it was unlikely to fall down imminently, high winds or future
frost damage could bring it down and that Anglian should have known it
needed a lintel installed. Said the damage bricks could be drilled
out, replaced with similar, specially painted to match existing
weathered look.

Said that Fensa was essentially useless and only meant that the glass
was toughened or whatever required by the regs, not that it was
installed properly.

I called Anglian and told them about the BCO. They said a manger
would call me back and arrange to visit with a builder to see what
needed to be done.

I phoned consumer direct (the front end of Trading Standards these
days) and they said to give 'em two weeks written notice to put the
lintel right quoting Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982. They
also said the fact that they'd damaged dozen of bricks around all the
windows was basically tough **** -- maybe they could replace a few of
the worst bricks but if I object to it looking cosmetically crap, I'd
have to go to court and let a judge decide, which I think is pretty
appalling.

Most importantly they said I couldn't get any one else in to rectify
it -- I have to let the monkeyboys have a go first. Is that true??

As I may have mentioned, uk.legal.moderated ---

You will get the same calibre of legal opinion there as you do DIY here

Glad the BCO was unambiguous.

So I have to trek over there again tomorrow (100 mile round trip) but
I'll come back armed with photos.

Make sure they know this, and that you will be submitting a claim for
expenses.

How old is your mum ? - you could get her to sign the new equivalent
of an enduring power of attorney, which would allow you to sort out
her affairs for her (sadly the new system is messier and more
expensive than the one it replaced)

On Tue, 19 Aug 2008 14:09:37 +0100, Adrian wrote:

It took over 9 months to get things sorted - with the local office of
Anglian (which seemed to be no more than one man and a dog) pointing
fingers at Head Office - and both of them trying to pass the blame off
onto the other.

BTDTGTTS. But at least our installation was just shoddy workmanship rather
than anything seriously structural, every window had a good dozen or so
faults. The worst was the lack of maintaining the vertical DPM of the tile
hung walls and bunging silicone into the slot the cut right through the
lead flashing when sawing out the old timber frames.

The local offices are franchises for sales men. The will try and bounce it
to head office who don't care a flying fig and bounce you back to the
franchise.

Don't start ot 'play friendly' with them - it'll only delay things.
Start a website - mention Anglian Windows and their shoddy practices on
every web-based forum you can find - generally make a noise.

That may prejudice any court proceedings but certainly don't "play
friendly". Be firm, polite, and 110% resolute on what you want them to do
to correct the problem(s) in a "reasonable" time scale. Say having an
independent structural survey within 7 days and all remedial work
completed and signed off to the structural engineers and your satisfaction
with in 28 days.

Set deadlines at the beginning, if (when...) they fail to meet them don't
faff about, tell them they have failed and you are going to get someone
else in to do the work(*) and that you will be taking them to court for
*all* the costs involved. So keep records of dates/times duration of phone
calls, letters written, postage (use Signed For so they can't deny having
received anything), trips to the franchise everything.

Good luck with sorting it out

He'll need it. Anglian biggest double glazing company in the UK they are
also THE biggest bunch of cowboys as well. IMHO they are the ones that
bring down the reputation of the industry. There are many decent local DG
companies that do a good job, at a good price(*2).

(*1) Get 3 quotes and choose with your engineer which is the best it may
not be the cheapest or most expensive but justify the choice.

(*2) Beware of Anglians high pressure selling "I must ring the boss (on
your phone...) to get authorisation for this unprecedented 65% discount,
but it will only be available if you sign now". Even with the
"unprecedented 65% discount" the prices is still more than the local
company...

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Aug 19, 10:52*pm, Tim S wrote:

As I may have mentioned, uk.legal.moderated ---

You will get the same calibre of legal opinion there as you do DIY here

Yup, posted and awaiting moderator approval.

On Aug 18, 11:42*pm, wrote:
Standing on the public pavement outside a branch telling
potential customers whats going on is also a very effective way of
motivating a company to address your complaints, can cost them a lot
of business.

NT

Strangely enough, I threatened to do this once.

Bought a video camera from Dixons many years ago. It failed a few
weeks later. Took it back.

Dixons: The manager's not here. We can't do anything.
Me: Well, who's in charge if the shop catches fire?
Dixons: I am.
Me: Well, what are YOU going to do?
Dixons: I can't do anything the manager's not here.
Me: OK, I'm going to go and stand outside your door and tell everyone
who walks past that Dixons are a bunch of liars and thieves.

Two minutes later I had a new (upgraded) camera. And I've never
traded with Dixons since.

mike wrote:
I've just discovered that my mother has been robbed --- sorry, I mean
had her windows replaced --- by those bottom-feeding scum at Anglian.

In the gable end of her 1960's bungalow is a twelve foot long by six
foot high picture window. The replacement window (like the one it's
replaced) is in 3x four foot wide sections.

Since it was replaced a fortnight ago, a triangle of brickwork 12 foot
across by ten courses high has detached itself from the rest of the
wall along the mortar lines. At its widest, the gap that's opened up
is 6 to 7mm wide.

About 25% of the houses in our street suffer a similar problem. They all
have a window arrangement that goes around the corner of the house and after
getting replacement windows show signs of damaged brickwork and a 4ft crack
down the front of the house between upstairs and down stairs windows due to
bricks moving as they are now no longer adequately supported at the corner.
These were probably done 10years ago and none has resulted in any serious
structural damage to my knowledge.


Once when getting a few quotes for a new front door we mistakenly let an
Anglican salesman in our house. Not sure why exactly as neither of us
particularly like uPVC doors, but we thought we'd get some ballpark figures.
In any event we didn't get that far as the salesman was such an obnoxious
**** I asked him to leave after about 15 mins.

cheers

David

DM wrote:

mike wrote:
I've just discovered that my mother has been robbed --- sorry, I mean
had her windows replaced --- by those bottom-feeding scum at Anglian.

About 25% of the houses in our street suffer a similar problem. They all
have a window arrangement that goes around the corner of the house and after
getting replacement windows show signs of damaged brickwork and a 4ft crack
down the front of the house between upstairs and down stairs windows due to
bricks moving as they are now no longer adequately supported at the corner.
These were probably done 10years ago and none has resulted in any serious
structural damage to my knowledge.

Whilst in no way wanting to condone shoddy work, it would be
interesting to know what the small print of the original contract
stated.

IIRC many years ago when I had some windows replaced, there was
an explicit note to the effect that if the property was depending
upon the existing windows for structural support, then their
removal was at the owner's risk. Whether those would today be
considered unfair contract terms is certainly arguable.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK


Have dancing shoes, will ceilidh.

Chris J Dixon wrote:
DM wrote:

mike wrote:
I've just discovered that my mother has been robbed --- sorry, I mean
had her windows replaced --- by those bottom-feeding scum at Anglian.

About 25% of the houses in our street suffer a similar problem. They all
have a window arrangement that goes around the corner of the house and after
getting replacement windows show signs of damaged brickwork and a 4ft crack
down the front of the house between upstairs and down stairs windows due to
bricks moving as they are now no longer adequately supported at the corner.
These were probably done 10years ago and none has resulted in any serious
structural damage to my knowledge.

Whilst in no way wanting to condone shoddy work, it would be
interesting to know what the small print of the original contract
stated.

IIRC many years ago when I had some windows replaced, there was
an explicit note to the effect that if the property was depending
upon the existing windows for structural support, then their
removal was at the owner's risk. Whether those would today be
considered unfair contract terms is certainly arguable.


I suspect so: IIRC (IANAL) there is a bit of law that says that what
counts is what one could reasonably expect: Houses falling down after
window replacement might be what anyone with experience of Anglia might
reasonably expect, but this probably wouldn't cut much ice with a judge,
or indeed Anglia.

"Anglia uses defense that shoddy workmanship is what one reasoanbly
expects from them"

Er..yes..

Final point: get media exposure. Nothing moves a bunch of bean counters
and salesmen faster than media exposure.


Chris

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember DM saying
something like:

Once when getting a few quotes for a new front door we mistakenly let an
Anglican salesman in our house.
In any event we didn't get that far as the salesman was such an obnoxious
**** I asked him to leave after about 15 mins.

You'd have been better off with a nice Jewish lad.
--
Dave
GS850x2 XS650 SE6a

"It's a moron working with power tools.
How much more suspenseful can you get?"
- House

"DM" wrote in message
...


About 25% of the houses in our street suffer a similar problem. They all
have a window arrangement that goes around the corner of the house and
after getting replacement windows show signs of damaged brickwork and a
4ft crack down the front of the house between upstairs and down stairs
windows due to bricks moving as they are now no longer adequately
supported at the corner. These were probably done 10years ago and none
has resulted in any serious structural damage to my knowledge.

My bay window has PVC coated steel tubes in the corners to support the roof.
It can't cost much extra to do a proper support like this.

On Wed, 20 Aug 2008 13:20:23 +0100 Dennis@home wrote :
My bay window has PVC coated steel tubes in the corners to support the roof.
It can't cost much extra to do a proper support like this.

Very old page but a guy who knows his stuff

BAY WATCH - The Disaster Movie

Independent glazing consultant Philip Rougier examines the topical and
controversial subject of replacing timber bay windows with PVCu ones.

http://www.expertexpert.com/bays.htm

--
Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk

"Tony Bryer" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 20 Aug 2008 13:20:23 +0100 Dennis@home wrote :
My bay window has PVC coated steel tubes in the corners to support the
roof.
It can't cost much extra to do a proper support like this.

Very old page but a guy who knows his stuff

BAY WATCH - The Disaster Movie

Independent glazing consultant Philip Rougier examines the topical and
controversial subject of replacing timber bay windows with PVCu ones.

http://www.expertexpert.com/bays.htm

Mine have been in for about 15 years now so I think they did it correctly.
The poles are bigger than 40 mm too, about 65 mm.

The actual frames are reinforced too.