Hi All,

If I wanted to get Freesat, is installing the dish a task for a fairly
competent DIYer. Any hints or tips ? Is alignment a problem ?

TIA

On Mon, 9 Jun 2008 16:09:41 +0100, Jethro wrote:

If I wanted to get Freesat, is installing the dish a task for a fairly
competent DIYer. Any hints or tips ? Is alignment a problem ?

POP. Plenty of information on the web if you google.

A cheap (£10 or so, get one with a tone) meter makes alignment very easy.
But the boxes have signal meters built in but they tend to be slugged and
of course you'll need to be able to see the screen as you tweak...

Rough alignment can be done knowing your latitude and the position of the
sun at about 1120 BST.

--
Cheers
Dave.

In article , Jethro
scribeth thus
Hi All,

If I wanted to get Freesat, is installing the dish a task for a fairly
competent DIYer.

Yes..

Any hints or tips ?

Take your time and make a good job of it;!..

Is alignment a problem ?

Not normally .. if the receiver you have has an alignment meter built in
most, all Sky boxes do. If yours doesn't then perhaps you could borrow
one or you can get freesat on a ex Sky Skybox...


TIA


--
Tony Sayer

"Jethro" wrote in message
...
Hi All,

If I wanted to get Freesat, is installing the dish a task for a fairly
competent DIYer.

Yes.

Any hints or tips ?

Install a quad LNB. You'll need one when you decide you need a second
receiver (or a PVR) at a later date.
http://www.satcure.co.uk/accs/page2.htm is a good site with lots of useful
info.

Is alignment a problem ?

No. So long as you use common sense. A sat finder meter (cheapo is fine)
helps; but Freesat box will have a built in signal meter so long as you can
view a TV while adjusting the dish.

Adjust azimuth/elevation for maximum "signal strength". Rotate LNB for
maximum "signal quality".

D

Jethro presented the following explanation :
Hi All,

If I wanted to get Freesat, is installing the dish a task for a fairly
competent DIYer. Any hints or tips ? Is alignment a problem ?

Perfectly easy, providing you get it onto a suitable wall to enable it
to 'see' the sat(s) you want to receive. Height makes no difference
providing it has sight of the sat, even ground mounting will work -
despite Sky installers seeming to mount them as high as possible. My
dish is 6 feet up from the ground and quite well hidden.

--
Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

"Jethro" wrote

Hi All,

If I wanted to get Freesat, is installing the dish a task for a fairly
competent DIYer. Any hints or tips ? Is alignment a problem ?

TIA

A bit finnicky without test gear, but not impossible - I did Sky version.
Best to set up the dish at ground level, look at others (if available) for
direction.
I established the direction and did a quick hook up at ground level first to
approximately fix the bracket orientation/angle.
If free sat issue a signal strength, use that to adjust the dish parameters.
Then clag it on the wall and repeat the adjusting process more accurately.
Dishes are far more particular about the direction setup than analogue TV so
be prepared to do lots of tweaking.

Failing all that, fix it all up and get a mate round with a signal strength
meter to adjust the dish direction.

HTH

Phil

In article ,
Harry Bloomfield wrote:

Perfectly easy, providing you get it onto a suitable wall to enable it
to 'see' the sat(s) you want to receive. Height makes no difference
providing it has sight of the sat, even ground mounting will work -
despite Sky installers seeming to mount them as high as possible.


It's nearer the sat so it must be a stronger signal innit?

(years ago I got told this by a sky installer - so it must be true eh?)

Darren (and yes, I guess *technically* what he said wasn't incorrect...)

Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Mon, 9 Jun 2008 16:09:41 +0100, Jethro wrote:

If I wanted to get Freesat, is installing the dish a task for a fairly
competent DIYer. Any hints or tips ? Is alignment a problem ?

POP. Plenty of information on the web if you google.

A cheap (£10 or so, get one with a tone) meter makes alignment very easy.
But the boxes have signal meters built in but they tend to be slugged and
of course you'll need to be able to see the screen as you tweak...

Rough alignment can be done knowing your latitude and the position of the
sun at about 1120 BST.

If it is impossible to get a TV that you can see from the dish, try
this. Set up the dish on the south side of your building near a window,
a portable workbench is ideal for this. Now adjust the dish until you
get a picture, starting from South, or if a neighbour has a dish align
it roughly with that. Now get the best picture you can. Don't forget
that the adjustment is "up and down" as well as "North and South". Next
measure the direction with a compass. Then make a simple device with
card, string and a weight and mark its elevation. Move the dish to its
final resting place, set it up according to the measurements taken then
using a friend or (at a push) your wife adjust finely for best
reception. That is how I did it and it worked.

In article ,
Jethro wrote:
f I wanted to get Freesat, is installing the dish a task for a fairly
competent DIYer. Any hints or tips ? Is alignment a problem ?

I bought a complete kit for satellite reception - not Freesat - from Lidl
and it included a satellite finder. Gives an audible tone to a ear piece
which changes as you move the dish. Made the initial alignment by just
looking at other ones in the area. I also fitted a rotator which makes
alignment much more critical. Took several goes to get it just right. But
I wasn't working up a ladder.

--
*I like cats, too. Let's exchange recipes.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Jethro wrote:
Hi All,

If I wanted to get Freesat, is installing the dish a task for a fairly
competent DIYer. Any hints or tips ? Is alignment a problem ?

Don't use a shotgun to make holes for the cable entry...

--
Adrian C

In message , Jethro
wrote
Hi All,

If I wanted to get Freesat, is installing the dish a task for a fairly
competent DIYer. Any hints or tips ? Is alignment a problem ?


I've recently fitted one myself. With no previous experience and with a
bit of background reading and a cheap alignment meter it was no problem.
Alignment took me around 15 minutes.

Freesat comes from the same satellite as Sky so any information about
installing Sky is valid.

I live in the South East and purchased a cheap minidish and LNB from
Ebay (£20 incl postage) but if you live further North you may want a
slightly larger dish. The meter was around £10 incl. postage .

If you want a Freesat PVR in the future install a dual or quad LNB
rather than a single LNB.

Use CT100 or equivalent cable
http://www.wrightsaerials.tv/coaxcablequalityhmdim.htm

I used a (satellite) aerial photo of my house with an overlay of the
satellite direction to initially position the dish. Link to map with
overlay (plus how to use a cheap meter):
http://www.satcure.co.uk/tech/satmeter.htm

Fitting F connectors plus weather proofing with self amalgamating tape
link:
http://www.satcure.co.uk/tech/fconn.htm
(Don't cover the cable in grease)


--
Alan
news2006 {at} amac {dot} f2s {dot} com

On Mon, 09 Jun 2008 17:58:10 +0100, Adrian C
wrote:

Jethro wrote:
Hi All,

If I wanted to get Freesat, is installing the dish a task for a fairly
competent DIYer. Any hints or tips ? Is alignment a problem ?

Don't use a shotgun to make holes for the cable entry...

Or a Shogun ...

8-|

Derek

On Mon, 9 Jun 2008 16:09:41 +0100 someone who may be "Jethro"
wrote this:-

If I wanted to get Freesat, is installing the dish a task for a fairly
competent DIYer. Any hints or tips ? Is alignment a problem ?

To add to what the others have said.

The main choice you face is buying a Sky style dish or not. The Sky
style dishes do not take some standard bits and bobs without
adapters, but if you buy everything in one go this is no great
problem. If you want to fiddle later on you may want to get a
non-Sky dish.

http://www.sateuropa.co.uk/overview.asp?catid=12&subcat=2 has a
range of dishes. Don't be put off by the price of the first one,
there is a range of prices on this and subsequent pages.

If you are in the south then a small dish, typically a "43cm" size,
will be enough (though it may suffer signal degradation in heavy
rain and for all weather performance a little larger may be useful).
The further north/west you are the larger dish is necessary. A
"60cm" for example by NE England and at least an "80cm" in northern
(mainland) Scotland. There are maps of recommended dish sizes
available on the Interweb thingy.

You need to point the dish at what is generally called the Astra 2
satellite, 28 degrees east. Actually it is a cluster of satellites
on slightly different bearings with slightly different footprints.
The same satellite as for Sky.

Some swear that the satellite cable should be bought in as a flying
cable, terminated in the plug which goes into the box. Personally I
prefer satellite sockets, despite the slight losses these introduce.

Lastly consider whether you want a HD or SD box. There is something
to be said for getting a SD box now. When the HD PVR arrives one of
these can be bought and the SD box relegated to secondary use.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

It's fairly easy if you're ok on a ladder.

Get a quad LNB for a little future proofing (and a 60cm dish to reduce
the chance of signal breakup in bad weather).

Make sure you put everything together at ground level with U-bracket
bolts only just tight and with various bits at roughly appropriate angles.

Drill into brick and not mortar.

Run decent coaxial. Two to the room in which you are likely to put a PVR.

Get a cheap satellite meter to help with alignment (~£7 on Ebay, £5 for
mine - used only once!).

Plug the coaxial into the Freesat box (box turned off!!).

Turn TV and Freesat box on in a position where you can see the Freesat
signal strength display.

Move the dish side to side until the meter shows a reading and you can
hear a tone. You know when you've got the correct satellite when both
signal strength and signal quality rise. If only strength rises, you've
got the wrong satellite.

Once you're on the correct satellite move the dish side to side very
slightly until you get the maximum meter reading (you might have to turn
the gain down on the meter a few times as it maxes out).

Now move the dish up and down until, again, you get maximum strength.

Now rotate the LNB until, again, you get maximum signal strength.

http://www.dishpointer.com/ will give you the angles you need and will
help with finding the correct direction in which to point the dish as it
gives you a 'line on the ground' for which to aim if there are no other
dishes visible.

http://www.satcure.co.uk/ for more information and bits and pieces.

HTH

--
F

On Mon, 09 Jun 2008 17:58:10 +0100, Adrian C wrote:

Don't use a shotgun to make holes for the cable entry...

Wasn't it a rifle and for the bracket mounting bolts?

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Mon, 09 Jun 2008 16:48:08 +0100, Harry Bloomfield wrote:

despite Sky installers seeming to mount them as high as possible.

They don't any more. "Working at height" restrictions now mean most dishes
are mounted around the 8' level.

My dish is 6 feet up from the ground and quite well hidden.

Bit low I'd bash me 'ed on it... Ours is about the 10' level tucked out of
the way but within broom handle reach to knock the ice off. More than 1/4"
of ice over your dish face completely naggers the satellite signal.

People have mentioned size, I'm 20 miles south of Hadrians Wall with a
"zone 1" (small) minidish. All but one block on signal strength and 75%
of the quality scale on Sky digiboxes (used for "freesat from Sky").

--
Cheers
Dave.

In message , David Hansen
wrote


Lastly consider whether you want a HD or SD box. There is something
to be said for getting a SD box now. When the HD PVR arrives one of
these can be bought and the SD box relegated to secondary use.

If considering a Freesat branded box be aware that:

The Bush, Goodmans and Grundig SD boxes are internally identical but may
have different prices. They are just brand names used by Alba.

The Freesat SD boxes appear to be limited (crippled) to only receiving
the Freesat channels. Other boxes in the market can receive other free
to air channels but they will not show the Freesat EPG. (The Humax
Foxsat Freesat HD box (£150) can be tuned to other non-freesat
channels.)
--
Alan
news2006 {at} amac {dot} f2s {dot} com

On Mon, 9 Jun 2008 23:43:32 +0100 someone who may be Alan
wrote this:-

The Freesat SD boxes appear to be limited (crippled) to only receiving
the Freesat channels.

Other than the Humax HD one, which has a "non-Freesat" mode to get
other channels. Whether there are many of these worth watching is
debatable.

Other boxes in the market can receive other free
to air channels but they will not show the Freesat EPG. (The Humax
Foxsat Freesat HD box (£150) can be tuned to other non-freesat
channels.)

The BBC/ITV no-doubt decided that using standard satellite equipment
was "too complicated" for the public. Instead they offer a "don't
worry your pretty little head about it" approach, which a
manufacturer must adhere to in order to have the Freesat branding.

For a DIYer standard equipment may be better, it allows access to
other satellites for example, but for someone who just wants to
watch UK channels there is merit in the Freesat approach. When they
get Internet based services going that will be interesting. I assume
current boxes will be upgraded to work with this.



--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

In article ,
David Hansen wrote:
The Freesat SD boxes appear to be limited (crippled) to only receiving
the Freesat channels.

Other than the Humax HD one, which has a "non-Freesat" mode to get
other channels. Whether there are many of these worth watching is
debatable.

There are one or two that might appeal. Other country's news services in
English for example. A rather fine German one - 'Bahn' - all about
railways. Another about ship building. A few fashion ones. Haven't found
any decent porn though. ;-) Quite a few film channels in English.

Other boxes in the market can receive other free
to air channels but they will not show the Freesat EPG. (The Humax
Foxsat Freesat HD box (£150) can be tuned to other non-freesat
channels.)

The BBC/ITV no-doubt decided that using standard satellite equipment
was "too complicated" for the public. Instead they offer a "don't
worry your pretty little head about it" approach, which a
manufacturer must adhere to in order to have the Freesat branding.

For a DIYer standard equipment may be better, it allows access to
other satellites for example, but for someone who just wants to
watch UK channels there is merit in the Freesat approach. When they
get Internet based services going that will be interesting. I assume
current boxes will be upgraded to work with this.

I don't use my ordinary one much - but are all the 'Freesat' channels
viewable on that except for the specialist EPG? There are so many variants
of the main channels out there - all the regions, etc - that I haven't had
the time to look yet.

--
*Funny, I don't remember being absent minded.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Mon, 09 Jun 2008 17:58:10 +0100, Adrian C wrote:

Don't use a shotgun to make holes for the cable entry...

Wasn't it a rifle and for the bracket mounting bolts?


..22 pistol handgun & cable entry & wife exit :-(

--
Adrian C

On Mon, 9 Jun 2008 23:43:32 +0100, Alan wrote:

Other boxes in the market can receive other free to air channels but
they will not show the Freesat EPG.

How easy are ordinary off the shelf DSAT boxes to use? Do they have some
form of EPG or do you have to know that channel 654 is BBC1, 732 is BBC2,
263 is Ch4 etc?

I'm happy(ish) with Sky Digiboxes ATM but it would be nice not have to
keep shifting (and remembering!) the Sky Card about to watch/record Ch4. I
have a DVD/HDD recorder with VideoPlus+ that can control external
receivers but I doubt it "knows about" Freesat boxes but does a number of
ordinary DSAT receivers.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Tue, 10 Jun 2008 10:54:16 +0100 (BST), Dave Liquorice wrote:

I have a DVD/HDD recorder with VideoPlus+

Make that GuidePlus+...

--
Cheers
Dave.

On 09/06/2008 23:43 Alan wrote:

The Freesat SD boxes appear to be limited (crippled) to only receiving
the Freesat channels. Other boxes in the market can receive other free
to air channels but they will not show the Freesat EPG. (The Humax
Foxsat Freesat HD box (£150) can be tuned to other non-freesat channels.)

The Humax has two modes: freesat and non-freesat. All FTV channels from
Astra at 28.2E are available in the non-freesat mode, only freesat
channels are available in freesat mode, surprise, surprise.

The other freesat boxes are said to be getting the non-freesat mode 'soon'.

Plenty of information at
http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/forums/f...play.php?f=142

--
F

On Tue, 10 Jun 2008 10:40:06 +0100 someone who may be "Dave Plowman
(News)" wrote this:-

Other than the Humax HD one, which has a "non-Freesat" mode to get
other channels. Whether there are many of these worth watching is
debatable.

There are one or two that might appeal. Other country's news services in
English for example. A rather fine German one - 'Bahn' - all about
railways. Another about ship building. A few fashion ones. Haven't found
any decent porn though. ;-) Quite a few film channels in English.

Many of those are not on the Astra 2 satellites. As I understand it
none of the Freesat boxes have the ability to access multiple
satellites within the box. One would either need to use external
switches or an external dish positioning system. Better to spend a
little less money on a standard box which has switching/positioning
built into the box.

DB have just announced that BahnTV is to go Internet only in a month
or two, according to a posting in another group. The French have
announced that they are dropping their English language news service
(and may have done so already).

There is plenty of porn. However, the "best" channels are supposedly
not on Astra 2, but on Hotbird. With the exception of the Humax HD
Freesat boxes would not be able to even search for these channels,
even with the dish pointing at Hotbird. The Humax would not be able
to decode them as it does not have a slot for a card and interface.

For a DIYer standard equipment may be better, it allows access to
other satellites for example, but for someone who just wants to
watch UK channels there is merit in the Freesat approach. When they
get Internet based services going that will be interesting. I assume
current boxes will be upgraded to work with this.

I don't use my ordinary one much - but are all the 'Freesat' channels
viewable on that except for the specialist EPG? There are so many variants
of the main channels out there - all the regions, etc - that I haven't had
the time to look yet.

Yes. They are all broadcast in the clear [1], with now and next
electronic programme guide. Thus one can watch all the variations of
BBC1, BBC2, ITV and Channel 4. What a Freesat box does is add a
seven day electronic programme guide and patronisingly decide what
of the variations one may watch, as it demands a post code before it
will do anything. It displays the same data stream as a standard box
does.

I gather the Humax HD box is the only one which allows one to decide
to add variations (in the non-Freesat menu). One may for example
wish to keep up to date with news from Yorkshire having lived there
or intending to go back. Even as stupid restrictions go this one is
particularly stupid.

[1] ITV HD is broadcast in a non-standard format, supposedly to stop
Sky boxes picking it up. It is broadcast as a stream rather than a
channel and the idea is that on a Freesat box one can press the red
button to get ITV HD. Some of the standard box manufacturers
released new software very rapidly to make it easier to pick up this
channel, good for them. Fortec Star for instance released new
software in a day or two for their Passion box.

What would be really good is if manufacturers issued software able
to take the non-standard Freesat EPG and display it on standard
boxes. Then they would only be missing the return path of the
Ethernet connection (not working yet on Freesat boxes).



--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

On Tue, 10 Jun 2008 10:54:16 +0100 (BST) someone who may be "Dave
Liquorice" wrote this:-

How easy are ordinary off the shelf DSAT boxes to use? Do they have some
form of EPG or do you have to know that channel 654 is BBC1, 732 is BBC2,
263 is Ch4 etc?

They have a now and next EPG, due to EU law. They also have a full
EPG if this is being transmitted in standard form (as some German
stations do).

Unlike crippled boxes station lists can be arranged in the order the
owner wants. If someone wants Channel 4 first, then BBC1 London,
then S4C that is no problem.

I'm happy(ish) with Sky Digiboxes ATM but it would be nice not have to
keep shifting (and remembering!) the Sky Card about to watch/record Ch4.

Channel 4 is now free, Sky viewing card or not and can be picked up
by any box.



--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

On 10/06/2008 12:22 David Hansen wrote:

What a Freesat box does is add a
seven day electronic programme guide and patronisingly decide what
of the variations one may watch, as it demands a post code before it
will do anything.

I don't think this is patronising. Although not yet implemented, it's
helpful and mirrors exactly what Freeview boxes do: it gives you your
'local' BBC and ITV stations. If you prefer to watch other regional
programmes by default then all you do is enter an appropriate postcode.

--
F

On Tue, 10 Jun 2008 12:31:23 +0100 someone who may be F
news@nowhere wrote this:-

What a Freesat box does is add a
seven day electronic programme guide and patronisingly decide what
of the variations one may watch, as it demands a post code before it
will do anything.

I don't think this is patronising.

I do.

Although not yet implemented, it's
helpful and mirrors exactly what Freeview boxes do: it gives you your
'local' BBC and ITV stations. If you prefer to watch other regional
programmes by default then all you do is enter an appropriate postcode.

You first have to discover what an "appropriate" post code is and
put it into the box, changing it every time one wants to watch other
programmes. This is particularly a problem in border areas, where
one may want to watch a different variation to the one the
broadcasters patronisingly want one to watch.

If the boxes offered choice then that would be a different matter.
The "don't worry your pretty little head about it" approach would be
just one of the options, probably the first option, not something
forced on people by arrogant broadcasters. They need to get the
limitations of terrestrial broadcasting out of their heads,
especially as some of us who have lived in border areas coped with
having at least two choices of variation decades ago.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

On 10/06/2008 12:48 David Hansen wrote:

You first have to discover what an "appropriate" post code is and
put it into the box, changing it every time one wants to watch other
programmes. This is particularly a problem in border areas, where
one may want to watch a different variation to the one the
broadcasters patronisingly want one to watch.

Then use the box in non-freesat mode and just press OK on the regional
channel(s) you want to watch.

If the boxes offered choice then that would be a different matter.
The "don't worry your pretty little head about it" approach would be
just one of the options, probably the first option, not something
forced on people by arrogant broadcasters. They need to get the
limitations of terrestrial broadcasting out of their heads,
especially as some of us who have lived in border areas coped with
having at least two choices of variation decades ago.

They do offer choice: freesat mode and non-freesat mode. Non-freesat
mode has all of the 400+ available channels including the 'freesat'
channels. Just no 7 day EPG for the freesat channels.

It's all surprisingly easy: you do have a freesat box?

--
F

On Tue, 10 Jun 2008 13:11:59 +0100 someone who may be F
news@nowhere wrote this:-

Then use the box in non-freesat mode and just press OK on the regional
channel(s) you want to watch.

AFAIAA only one of the seven boxes currently available has a
non-Freesat mode. The other six don't though there is talk of this
being provided "soon".

As I understand it Humax took the risk of the non-Freesat mode,
despite it being against some interpretations of the specification.
It has been very popular and so the other manufacturer (the same HD
or SD box is sold under three names with three slightly different
exteriors).

Of course there is no need to have a Freesat and non-Freesat mode.
It would be far more sensible to just have one mode, but that would
certainly be against the specification.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

On Tue, 10 Jun 2008 12:26:21 +0100, David Hansen wrote:

Channel 4 is now free, Sky viewing card or not and can be picked up
by any box.

Still only FTV not FTA on a Skybox 104, just checked...

Yes there is a FTA stream that you can use via "Other Channels" on a
Skybox but that is PITA to use and GuidePlus+ can't drive a Skybox that
well.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Tue, 10 Jun 2008 11:51:16 +0100, F wrote:

The Humax has two modes: freesat and non-freesat. All FTV channels from
Astra at 28.2E are available in the non-freesat mode,

Where do you get a freesat card from for these FTV (Free To View)
channels? Or do you really mean FTA (Free To Air)?

I think Mr Hansen has just tripped over the confusion between FTV and FTA
in relation to Sky boxen and Channel 4...

--
Cheers
Dave.

In article , David Hansen
scribeth thus
On Tue, 10 Jun 2008 12:31:23 +0100 someone who may be F
news@nowhere wrote this:-

What a Freesat box does is add a
seven day electronic programme guide and patronisingly decide what
of the variations one may watch, as it demands a post code before it
will do anything.

I don't think this is patronising.

I do.

Yep ..but you prolly have more than the one braincell that most TV
viewers are blessed with;!..

Although not yet implemented, it's
helpful and mirrors exactly what Freeview boxes do: it gives you your
'local' BBC and ITV stations. If you prefer to watch other regional
programmes by default then all you do is enter an appropriate postcode.

You first have to discover what an "appropriate" post code is and
put it into the box, changing it every time one wants to watch other
programmes. This is particularly a problem in border areas, where
one may want to watch a different variation to the one the
broadcasters patronisingly want one to watch.

If the boxes offered choice then that would be a different matter.
The "don't worry your pretty little head about it" approach would be
just one of the options, probably the first option, not something
forced on people by arrogant broadcasters. They need to get the
limitations of terrestrial broadcasting out of their heads,
especially as some of us who have lived in border areas coped with
having at least two choices of variation decades ago.


You can always get a standard sat box which will do that and more some
even have ethernet connectivity !...

--
Tony Sayer

David Hansen explained on 10/06/2008 :
Many of those are not on the Astra 2 satellites. As I understand it
none of the Freesat boxes have the ability to access multiple
satellites within the box.

The unit we bought for the caravan - satellite in a suitcase - has a
dish LNB and receiver which enables you to view various satellites
which are all preprogrammed. For the Astra 28 deg sat it is programmed
with all of the local bbc and ITV transmissions. In other words
wherever we are, we can choose the local TV service, or choose the same
one we would get at home via our aerial.

--
Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

On 10/06/2008 16:44 Dave Liquorice wrote:

Where do you get a freesat card from for these FTV (Free To View)
channels? Or do you really mean FTA (Free To Air)?

You don't need a card. The freesat box (Humax Foxsat at the moment, the
rest real soon now) has two modes, the second of which presents you with
all the FTV channels available at 28.2E.

I think Mr Hansen has just tripped over the confusion between FTV and FTA
in relation to Sky boxen and Channel 4...

He seems angry about something...

--
F

On 10/06/2008 15:15 David Hansen wrote:

AFAIAA only one of the seven boxes currently available has a
non-Freesat mode. The other six don't though there is talk of this
being provided "soon".

Correct.

As I understand it Humax took the risk of the non-Freesat mode,
despite it being against some interpretations of the specification.
It has been very popular and so the other manufacturer (the same HD
or SD box is sold under three names with three slightly different
exteriors).

Not being provided because it's popular but because, AIUI, it's illegal
not to.

Of course there is no need to have a Freesat and non-Freesat mode.

If you want just one mode then, as I pointed out previously, you could
lose the 7 day EPG and use non-freesat mode with just now and next.

It would be far more sensible to just have one mode, but that would
certainly be against the specification.

Correct, it would be against the spec. Freesat want a uniformity of
experience across the various boxes to avoid the variations you get with
Freeview.

You do have a freesat box?

Meanwhile, the footy on BBC HD with surround sound and, later, on ITV HD
(exclusive to freesat), calls.

--
F

On 10/06/2008 18:25 F wrote:

You don't need a card. The freesat box (Humax Foxsat at the moment, the
rest real soon now) has two modes, the second of which presents you with
all the FTV channels available at 28.2E.

Oops! Should've been FTA!

--
F

In message , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
In article ,
David Hansen wrote:
The Freesat SD boxes appear to be limited (crippled) to only receiving
the Freesat channels.

Other than the Humax HD one, which has a "non-Freesat" mode to get
other channels. Whether there are many of these worth watching is
debatable.

There are one or two that might appeal. Other country's news services in
English for example. A rather fine German one - 'Bahn' - all about
railways. Another about ship building. A few fashion ones. Haven't found
any decent porn though. ;-) Quite a few film channels in English.

You couldn't move for it a few years ago on Astra

titten und arschen ueberall

My decoder and positioner are now ancient and lost their memory when we
had a power cut

One of these days, I'll get around to replacing them

Who was the regular poster here who had a shop in Gloucestershire ?




--
geoff

On 2008-06-10 10:54:16 +0100, "Dave Liquorice"
said:

On Mon, 9 Jun 2008 23:43:32 +0100, Alan wrote:

Other boxes in the market can receive other free to air channels but
they will not show the Freesat EPG.

How easy are ordinary off the shelf DSAT boxes to use? Do they have some
form of EPG or do you have to know that channel 654 is BBC1, 732 is BBC2,
263 is Ch4 etc?


Pretty easy.

I have an Echostar one which I've had for three or four years. This
has an EPG which is built using information from the channel
transmissions. As a minimum, there is the channel name, others have
entries for the current and following programs while most have a more
detailed program listing. The information is not as rich as Sky's EPG
in that there are not the detailed info capabilities and so on.
However, it's perfectly possible to make grouped and sorted lists of
channels by name, for example.

This particular receiver has a built in 36V dc positioner with 3-5A
output for a motorised dish. With this, I can simply select the
channel that I want and the dish moves appropriately to the correct
satellite. I can sub group the channels by satellite if I want to do
that, so that for example I have all of the Astra 2 channels together,
Astra 1, Hotbird, Thor and so on.

Newer receivers tend to have DiSEqC signaling for control of satellite
motor positioners because the power supplies can be made smaller.
There are now motor positioners that can be operated by the DiSEqC
signal via a coax, but they currently all seem to be the lightweight
ones. For a larger dish or an exposed position, a heavy duty motor
is a good idea (e.g. the Jaeger 1224 which is pretty much an industry
standard). These are 36v only and need a small positioner control box
to convert the DiSEqC signals. Apparently, this can all be automated
though.

On Tue, 10 Jun 2008 18:34:52 +0100 someone who may be F
news@nowhere wrote this:-

As I understand it Humax took the risk of the non-Freesat mode,
despite it being against some interpretations of the specification.
It has been very popular and so the other manufacturer (the same HD
or SD box is sold under three names with three slightly different
exteriors).

Not being provided because it's popular but because, AIUI, it's illegal
not to.

Why would it be illegal?

Of course there is no need to have a Freesat and non-Freesat mode.

If you want just one mode then, as I pointed out previously, you could
lose the 7 day EPG and use non-freesat mode with just now and next.

That doesn't answer the point. There should be no restriction on a
manufacturer having one mode. If there is a standard 7 day EPG for
that channel that is displayed, if there is a Freesat EPG for that
channel that is displayed, if there is neither then now and next is
displayed. Preventing that is a restraint of trade.




--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

On Tue, 10 Jun 2008 16:37:02 +0100 (BST) someone who may be "Dave
Liquorice" wrote this:-

Channel 4 is now free, Sky viewing card or not and can be picked up
by any box.

Still only FTV not FTA on a Skybox 104, just checked...

That does not contradict my statement.

As you said, "Yes there is a FTA stream". It was available for some
weeks, perhaps a few months, before the Freesat launch date.

that you can use via "Other Channels" on a
Skybox but that is PITA to use and GuidePlus+ can't drive a Skybox that
well.

I make no comment on the problems which crippled boxes have in
receiving channels.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54