"Tim Southerwood" wrote in message
...
Mary Fisher coughed up some electrons that declared:


"Doki" wrote in message
...


Glass isn't particularly green - containers are relatively bulky and
heavy, meaning you could get more into plastic containers, and save on
transport costs. Even if the plastic doesn't biodegrade, it is at least
small...

Wine is beginning to be bottled in plastic. It's the future.

Mary



I know what the future is: returnable glass bottles with a deposit.
It worked in 1970 and it can work now, if someone can kick the industry up
the backside to (re)organise it.

You must be very young, we were doing that in the 1940s, and probably since
stoneware bottles were used come to think of it.

There is no reason a well made glass bottle needs to be considered single
use.

Indeed there isn't, but I suspect that most shoppers wouldn't choose to have
a scratched wine bottle. You can't help scratches on glass over several
uses.

Think about it:

Retailer sells bottle plus product.

Customer consumes product.

a) Customer returns bottle on next visit (they almost do this now, with
many
glass recycling facilities being located in supermarket car parks)

Yebbut in your case, to reclaim the deposit, more staff or time would be
needed. I'm not saying it's a bad scheme, just that I doubt it would work as
well as you and I would like.

....


I honestly don't know what's so difficult about that, apart from someone
actually needs to organise it.

How about volunteering?

No glass needs to be melted,

Some would, because of breakages.

major legs of the return transport are just
using spare capacity. Very energy efficient I would have though.

More energy efficient to use lightweight plastic bottles, the weight of
glass is responsible for a lot of fossil fuel use.

Mary

"Mogga" wrote in message
...

....

... We've been given two food recycling bins;
one small for the kitchen and one big for outside. We were given a
roll of special bags but they're quite dear so I'm using newspaper
were possible to wrap food waste.

The notion of wasting food is abbhorent.

Mary

On 8 Feb, 10:50, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Mary Fisher wrote:
"Peter" wrote in message
...

I am of the opinion that after I wash the cans and bottles and put them in
the container provided and then watch the refuse collector stand at the
side
of the diesel spewing truck seperating cans from glass and knowing that at
last estimate 83% of materials seperated for recycling goes to landfill,

How do you know that?

Mary

What about 'I am of the opinion that' translates into 'knowledge' in
your tiny mind, Mary?

Don't you think it's possible that it was the bit where he said
"knowing that"?

"Mungo "Two Sheds" Toadfoot" wrote in message
...
Mary Fisher wrote:
"Mungo "Two Sheds" Toadfoot" wrote in
message ...
How much energy is saved by the recycling efforts of the average 3
bed household on a weekly basis?

The reason I ask is that we have to wash every tin, bottle and bit of
plastic that we have to recycle and I'm thinking that we're using
more hot water now than we used to and that water is heated with gas
and/or electricity...

Si

Can't you wash them in cold water?

Mary

Most things, yes, but even that "costs" energy that wouldn't be otherwise
used. I'm not saying recycling's not a good idea but is it doing any good
or is the work required in doing it actually outweighing the benefits?

Si

Your work?

:-)

I was thinking about your original post during my wallow (we had a clear day
yesterday so a lot of hot water).

I tried to think what we do with tins, bottles and bits of plastic. I had to
think hard.

We very rarely have tins, they rinse easily with one small swish of cold
water. The tins I pick up in the street go straight into our green bin, I
admit that I don't wash those. Most are already squashed.

We have plastic milk bottles, I rinse them, again with a swish of cold
water. We have no other plastic bottles, glass goes in the crate outside to
be taken to the bottle bank when we're going near one. We don't wash them.

Bits of plastic?

I was saddened when Spouse bought some organic cream at M&S at Christmas and
saw that the tub wasn't recyclable. Heavens! What's their thinking?

Mary

On Fri, 8 Feb 2008 11:58:15 -0000, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:


We have plastic milk bottles,

Glass ones are better - collected by the milkman when he delivers more
milk, so quite EF...

--
Frank Erskine

"Tim Southerwood" wrote in message
...

I know what the future is: returnable glass bottles with a deposit.
It worked in 1970 and it can work now, if someone can kick the industry up
the backside to (re)organise it.

Works in Norway and Austria.

Actually in Norway they go better than that - plastic bottles and drink cans
have a deposit on them too, and the plastic pop bottles are
returnable/reusable (they're a little bit stouter than the ones we have
here).

cheers,
clive

David Hansen wrote:
On Thu, 7 Feb 2008 18:39:07 -0000 someone who may be "Mungo \"Two
Sheds\" Toadfoot" wrote this:-

The reason I ask is that we have to wash every tin, bottle and bit of
plastic that we have to recycle and I'm thinking that we're using more hot
water now than we used to and that water is heated with gas and/or
electricity...

Only if one does it badly. Plonking a few tins and plastic bottles
into the water just used to wash up saucepans and shaking them
backwards and forwards before placing them to dry uses no more hot
water.

However, recycling is not as good as not having the packaging in the
first place. Anyone with an open mind can work their way through
http://www.foe-scotland.org.uk/campaigns/crew/resources/ to
understand the issues.

Those who see no reason not to lob everything in a giant wheelie bin
should consider the little film at
http://www.foe-scotland.org.uk/resources/minisites/landfill to see
what happens to it.


That doesn't really tell you anything about what happens to it. What it does
do is highlight the problems of the locals.

On a a modern landfill site what happens to the waste is that it goes into
carefully prepared lined cells, which are soon capped.

Then holes are drilled down into the waste and perforated pipes inserted and
connected up to a gas collection network.

This is then fed to some generators which produce electricity.

This waste starts producing decent amounts of methane after about 12-18
months and continues for for 20-25 years.

Typical well run landfills, or should that be methane farms, generate 4 to
20 MW, of nice green electricity.

cheers

David

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
Mary Fisher wrote:
"Peter" wrote in message
...

I am of the opinion that after I wash the cans and bottles and put them
in
the container provided and then watch the refuse collector stand at the
side
of the diesel spewing truck seperating cans from glass and knowing that
at
last estimate 83% of materials seperated for recycling goes to landfill,

How do you know that?

Mary
What about 'I am of the opinion that' translates into 'knowledge' in your
tiny mind, Mary?

Um, can't you read? Try not to let your dislike of people blind you to
what's been written.

(hint : "knowing").

"Frank Erskine" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 8 Feb 2008 11:58:15 -0000, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:


We have plastic milk bottles,

Glass ones are better - collected by the milkman when he delivers more
milk, so quite EF...

I agree. We don't have a local delivery and I haven't seen glass bottles in
any shop :-(

Mary

Tim Southerwood wrote:
Mary Fisher coughed up some electrons that declared:

"Doki" wrote in message
...

Glass isn't particularly green - containers are relatively bulky and
heavy, meaning you could get more into plastic containers, and save on
transport costs. Even if the plastic doesn't biodegrade, it is at least
small...
Wine is beginning to be bottled in plastic. It's the future.

Mary


I know what the future is: returnable glass bottles with a deposit.
It worked in 1970 and it can work now, if someone can kick the industry up
the backside to (re)organise it.

snip

Yes - but...

Around that time I spent a while delivering lemonade in such returnable
bottles. Unfortunately, there were two major suppliers in the area - the
one I worked for and Barrs. Our bottles could be used by Barrs; Barrs
bottles could not be used by us. (The Barrs bottles had a swirl around
the upper neck that would not fit our bottling plant.) So we had a
gigantic pile of their bottles in our yard that we had inadvertently
picked up from various retailers. And they would not come to pick them
up - even though we would not have asked for the deposit refunds.

Which rather suggests that defining standards is a rather important part
of making the approach work. And probably forcing companies to follow them.

--
Rod

On Fri, 8 Feb 2008 09:39:10 -0000 someone who may be "Mary Fisher"
wrote this:-

I am of the opinion that after I wash the cans and bottles and put them in
the container provided and then watch the refuse collector stand at the
side
of the diesel spewing truck seperating cans from glass and knowing that at
last estimate 83% of materials seperated for recycling goes to landfill,

How do you know that?

Indeed. Such a precise figure implies one of two things. Either
there is a source for the figure which can then be verified, or the
figure has been made up.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

On Fri, 8 Feb 2008 11:51:41 -0000 someone who may be "Mary Fisher"
wrote this:-

The notion of wasting food is abbhorent.

Indeed. However, a little food waste can feed the worms in the
wormery. Carrot peelings and the like.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

On Fri, 8 Feb 2008 10:37:18 -0000 someone who may be "Doki"
wrote this:-

That's the bit that gets me. One of my parent's houses - no recycling at
all. My other parent's house - recycling with blue and brown bins.
Girlfriend's parents house up the road, brown and blue bins, but completely
different stuff can and can't go into the bins. The colours of bin aren't
even standardised. My house in Sheffield, no recycling at all apart from
paper, but then Sheffield has an incinerator.

Would you rather everywhere was lowered to the lowest common
denominator? Such an approach sounds rather Socialist to me.




--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

On Fri, 08 Feb 2008 12:11:08 +0000 someone who may be DM
wrote this:-

Those who see no reason not to lob everything in a giant wheelie bin
should consider the little film at
http://www.foe-scotland.org.uk/resources/minisites/landfill to see
what happens to it.

That doesn't really tell you anything about what happens to it.

Incorrect.

What it does do is highlight the problems of the locals.

That as well.

On a a modern landfill site what happens to the waste is that it goes into
carefully prepared lined cells, which are soon capped.

As it says in the film, linings fail.

Then holes are drilled down into the waste and perforated pipes inserted and
connected up to a gas collection network.

An end of pipe solution which does nothing to reduce the volume of
waste, indeed it may even encourage more waste like incinerators.
That means emissions are involved in creating the waste and
transporting it.

It is far better to reduce the volume of waste than put a green fig
leaf on it.



--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

On Fri, 8 Feb 2008 09:58:25 -0000 someone who may be "Mungo \"Two
Sheds\" Toadfoot" wrote this:-

I'm not saying recycling's not a good idea but is it doing any good or
is the work required in doing it actually outweighing the benefits?

I'm quite sure you are capable of looking this up for yourself.
However, for once I will indulge in some spoon feeding
http://www.wasteawarescotland.org.uk/html/recycle_cans.asp gives
some figures.



--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

David Hansen wrote:
On Fri, 08 Feb 2008 12:11:08 +0000 someone who may be DM
wrote this:-

Those who see no reason not to lob everything in a giant wheelie bin
should consider the little film at
http://www.foe-scotland.org.uk/resources/minisites/landfill to see
what happens to it.
That doesn't really tell you anything about what happens to it.

Incorrect.

In what way, did you watch something different?
Give some concrete examples rather than simple negation. Do you every give a
complete and reasonable response?


What it does do is highlight the problems of the locals.

That as well.

On a a modern landfill site what happens to the waste is that it goes into
carefully prepared lined cells, which are soon capped.

As it says in the film, linings fail.

Then holes are drilled down into the waste and perforated pipes inserted and
connected up to a gas collection network.

An end of pipe solution which does nothing to reduce the volume of
waste, indeed it may even encourage more waste like incinerators.
That means emissions are involved in creating the waste and
transporting it.

It is far better to reduce the volume of waste than put a green fig
leaf on it.




Where there is waste then it is better to use it efficiently, methane
generation form waste is a good usage.

In fact most landfill sites show remarkably good usage of resources.

1. quarry an area - good business
2. charge people to dump waste in your hole - good business
3. generate electricity from that waste - good business

overall a very efficient use of resources

On Feb 7, 8:39*pm, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
wrote:
On 7 Feb, 18:39, "Mungo \"Two Sheds\" Toadfoot"
wrote:
How much energy is saved by the recycling efforts of the average 3 bed
household on a weekly basis?

The reason I ask is that we have to wash every tin, bottle and bit of
plastic that we have to recycle and I'm thinking that we're using more hot
water now than we used to and that water is heated with gas and/or
electricity...

Si

Have a look at this:

http://www.perc.org/pdf/ps28.pdf

T

Apart from the bit 'we are not running out of oil' I have to say I agree
with it.


We're not.

As it gets scarcer, prices rise and encourage alternatives to be used
as well as making it viable to extract the more difficult to get at
stuff.

Taken to the extreme, we will never run out of oil, we just won't use
much of what is left.

MBQ

Huge wrote:
On 2008-02-08, Frank Erskine wrote:
On Fri, 8 Feb 2008 11:58:15 -0000, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:


We have plastic milk bottles,

Glass ones are better - collected by the milkman when he delivers more
milk, so quite EF...

Milkman? Delivers?

We're well out in the sticks in Suffolk and we still have *two*
milkmen delivering up our tiny little private road.

At least one of them runs an electric milk float, I'm impressed that
they have such a long range nowadays.

--
Chris Green

On Fri, 08 Feb 2008 13:30:06 +0000 someone who may be DM
wrote this:-

Those who see no reason not to lob everything in a giant wheelie bin
should consider the little film at
http://www.foe-scotland.org.uk/resources/minisites/landfill to see
what happens to it.

That doesn't really tell you anything about what happens to it.

Incorrect.

In what way,

It shows rubbish being spread in a big hole by large machines.

did you watch something different?

No. However, I have seen it in the higher quality of a DVD on a
full screen. I suspect some of the details are not as clear on
Internet.

It is far better to reduce the volume of waste than put a green fig
leaf on it.

Where there is waste then it is better to use it efficiently,

The first four of your words are the important bit. It is far more
efficient for there to be less waste to do something with than try
and bolt a green fig leaf on the end.

methane generation form waste is a good usage.

Not if it is an example of the tail wagging the dog.

In fact most landfill sites show remarkably good usage of resources.

1. quarry an area - good business
2. charge people to dump waste in your hole - good business
3. generate electricity from that waste - good business

Good business for the quarry owner and operator. Not necessarily
good business for broader society.

overall a very efficient use of resources

If waste can be created and transported to the site without using
energy.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

Mary Fisher coughed up some electrons that declared:


"Tim Southerwood" wrote in message
...
I know what the future is: returnable glass bottles with a deposit.
It worked in 1970 and it can work now, if someone can kick the industry
up the backside to (re)organise it.

You must be very young, we were doing that in the 1940s, and probably
since stoneware bottles were used come to think of it.

Indeed.


There is no reason a well made glass bottle needs to be considered single
use.

Indeed there isn't, but I suspect that most shoppers wouldn't choose to
have a scratched wine bottle. You can't help scratches on glass over
several uses.

That's a possible concern, but I don't remember any issues with Corona pop
bottles (which are the ones I remember with a 10p deposit). Nor milk bottle
for that matter.

Think about it:

Retailer sells bottle plus product.

Customer consumes product.

a) Customer returns bottle on next visit (they almost do this now, with
many
glass recycling facilities being located in supermarket car parks)

Yebbut in your case, to reclaim the deposit, more staff or time would be
needed. I'm not saying it's a bad scheme, just that I doubt it would work
as well as you and I would like.

It may be a shift of labour. I heard of recycling plants where hand labour
is needed to sort recycables, so in the grand scheme of things it may not
make much difference. A more radical, and even more old fashioned idea
might be to sell liquid products on-tap and the customer brings their own
recepticle. Probably to inconvenient for most people with their hectic
lives thought.



I honestly don't know what's so difficult about that, apart from someone
actually needs to organise it.

How about volunteering?

No point. There is nothing I could do. This needs the impetus and might of
central government. It's what they *should* be doing for the money I pay
them, instead of buggering around with irrelevant and unpopular crap like
Part P, ID cards and wars in countries which are none of our concern.

No glass needs to be melted,

Some would, because of breakages.

Of course. But I would expect a low percentage.

major legs of the return transport are just
using spare capacity. Very energy efficient I would have though.

More energy efficient to use lightweight plastic bottles, the weight of
glass is responsible for a lot of fossil fuel use.

This is a reasonable argument on the face of it, but what if you factor in
the cost of production of said plastic, including the fact that it requires
oil which is a finite resource and possibly better used for other things
(like lubrication products). I'm not convinced though, that the extra
percentage of fuel used to transport the weight of glass over plastic is
that significant, given the weight of the bottle is a small ratio of the
total weight of bottle plus product.

It is difficult to evaluate without studying all the costs involved, which
is why I keep an open mind rather than taking the green argument as gospel.

Cheers

Tim

wrote:
On 7 Feb, 18:39, "Mungo \"Two Sheds\" Toadfoot"
wrote:
How much energy is saved by the recycling efforts of the average 3 bed
household on a weekly basis?

The reason I ask is that we have to wash every tin, bottle and bit of
plastic that we have to recycle and I'm thinking that we're using more hot
water now than we used to and that water is heated with gas and/or
electricity...

Si

Have a look at this:

http://www.perc.org/pdf/ps28.pdf

T


Quite interesting but the occasional judicious choice of reference material
makes some of her material on landfill decomposition very misleading, the
same may well hold for other parts although it does sound feasible. I would
certainly agree that not all recycling is worthwhile, and some is a waste of
time and money

On 2008-02-08 08:48:18 +0000, David Hansen
said:

On Thu, 7 Feb 2008 18:39:07 -0000 someone who may be "Mungo \"Two
Sheds\" Toadfoot" wrote this:-

The reason I ask is that we have to wash every tin, bottle and bit of
plastic that we have to recycle and I'm thinking that we're using more hot
water now than we used to and that water is heated with gas and/or
electricity...

Only if one does it badly. Plonking a few tins and plastic bottles
into the water just used to wash up saucepans and shaking them
backwards and forwards before placing them to dry uses no more hot
water.

However, recycling is not as good as not having the packaging in the
first place. Anyone with an open mind can work their way through
http://www.foe-scotland.org.uk/campaigns/crew/resources/ to
understand the issues.

Those who see no reason not to lob everything in a giant wheelie bin
should consider the little film at
http://www.foe-scotland.org.uk/resources/minisites/landfill to see
what happens to it.

I'm just amazed that people have got the spare time to waste on this nonsense.

On 2008-02-08 08:48:18 +0000, David Hansen
said:

On Thu, 7 Feb 2008 18:39:07 -0000 someone who may be "Mungo \"Two
Sheds\" Toadfoot" wrote this:-

The reason I ask is that we have to wash every tin, bottle and bit of
plastic that we have to recycle and I'm thinking that we're using more hot
water now than we used to and that water is heated with gas and/or
electricity...

Only if one does it badly. Plonking a few tins and plastic bottles
into the water just used to wash up saucepans and shaking them
backwards and forwards before placing them to dry uses no more hot
water.

However, recycling is not as good as not having the packaging in the
first place. Anyone with an open mind can work their way through
http://www.foe-scotland.org.uk/campaigns/crew/resources/ to
understand the issues.

Those who see no reason not to lob everything in a giant wheelie bin
should consider the little film at
http://www.foe-scotland.org.uk/resources/minisites/landfill to see
what happens to it.

I'm just amazed that people have got the spare time to waste on this nonsense.

On Fri, 8 Feb 2008 16:26:20 +0000 someone who may be Andy Hall
wrote this:-

Those who see no reason not to lob everything in a giant wheelie bin
should consider the little film at
http://www.foe-scotland.org.uk/resources/minisites/landfill to see
what happens to it.

I'm just amazed that people have got the spare time to waste on this nonsense.

What is nonsensical about the film?

It is not that long, from memory about ten minutes. It can be
stopped and started should one wish. I doubt if anyone is so busy
that they cannot watch it in one window while doing something else
in another.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

In article ,
Tim Southerwood wrote:

That's a possible concern, but I don't remember any issues with Corona pop
bottles (which are the ones I remember with a 10p deposit).

2/- deposit! Bluddy ell. We used to get tuppence.

In message , Mary Fisher
writes

"Tim Southerwood" wrote in message
. ..
Mary Fisher coughed up some electrons that declared:

a) Customer returns bottle on next visit (they almost do this now, with
many
glass recycling facilities being located in supermarket car parks)

Yebbut in your case, to reclaim the deposit, more staff or time would be
needed. I'm not saying it's a bad scheme, just that I doubt it would work as
well as you and I would like.

In supermarkets in Copenhagen they had machines that took bottles and
gave you the deposit back.
--
Chris French

On Fri, 8 Feb 2008 11:33:36 -0000 someone who may be "Mary Fisher"
wrote this:-

Ex ellent little film, I'm sure that no-one would choose to live near a
landfill site.

Glad you liked it.

Those with an interest in waste might like to peruse
http://www.messageinthewaves.com/facts.php which is about the
plague of plastic in the Pacific Ocean. There are a variety of films
and photographs on the site to see what effect the plastic has on
animals.

One of the people who made the film "Message in the Waves" for the
BBC, from which the clips are taken, was so shocked by what she saw
that when she got back home she made the town plastic bag free
http://www.plasticbagfree.com/





--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

Mungo "Two Sheds" Toadfoot wrote:

How much energy is saved by the recycling efforts of the average 3 bed
household on a weekly basis?

The reason I ask is that we have to wash every tin, bottle and bit of
plastic that we have to recycle and I'm thinking that we're using more hot
water now than we used to and that water is heated with gas and/or
electricity...

The council provides you with a service to collect your waste. Why not
charge them for washing out that waste?

I have no wheelie bin, but have black bags instead. This was started
when they introduced wheelie bins. If they ever put one of their bins on
my property, they will get a bill for it, for ground rent. It will rise
at twice the rate of the combined council tax.

Dave

David Hansen wrote:
On Fri, 8 Feb 2008 09:58:25 -0000 someone who may be "Mungo \"Two
Sheds\" Toadfoot" wrote this:-

I'm not saying recycling's not a good idea but is it doing any good
or is the work required in doing it actually outweighing the
benefits?

I'm quite sure you are capable of looking this up for yourself.
However, for once I will indulge in some spoon feeding
http://www.wasteawarescotland.org.uk/html/recycle_cans.asp gives
some figures.

Yes, yes, I've read all the happy clappy writings on many subjects but
whether it's true or not is the big question. Look how many people shout
from the rooftops that vegetable oils are good for you and natural,
saturated fats kill you dead, for example.

Si

In message , chris French
writes
In message , Mary
Fisher writes

"Tim Southerwood" wrote in message
.. .
Mary Fisher coughed up some electrons that declared:

a) Customer returns bottle on next visit (they almost do this now, with
many
glass recycling facilities being located in supermarket car parks)

Yebbut in your case, to reclaim the deposit, more staff or time would be
needed. I'm not saying it's a bad scheme, just that I doubt it would work as
well as you and I would like.

In supermarkets in Copenhagen they had machines that took bottles and
gave you the deposit back.

Yeah, "my" local supermarket in Liege has a beer bottle machine which
you feed bottles into and you get a receipt which you can cash in at the
till

I've experimented with English and German bottles, it rejects them, so
it must be fairly sophisticated

--
geoff

On Fri, 8 Feb 2008 12:24:06 UTC, Huge wrote:

On 2008-02-08, Frank Erskine wrote:
On Fri, 8 Feb 2008 11:58:15 -0000, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:


We have plastic milk bottles,

Glass ones are better - collected by the milkman when he delivers more
milk, so quite EF...

Milkman? Delivers?

Still happens round here. And then he goes back to Canterbury through
the woods, followed by a traffic queue which includes me....

--
The information contained in this post is copyright the
poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by
http://www.diybanter.com

In message , Huge
writes
On 2008-02-08, Frank Erskine wrote:
On Fri, 8 Feb 2008 11:58:15 -0000, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:


We have plastic milk bottles,

Glass ones are better - collected by the milkman when he delivers more
milk, so quite EF...

Milkman? Delivers?

Pushing up the population


--
geoff

On 2008-02-08 17:33:06 +0000, chris French
said:

In message , Mary
Fisher writes

"Tim Southerwood" wrote in message
...
Mary Fisher coughed up some electrons that declared:

a) Customer returns bottle on next visit (they almost do this now, with
many
glass recycling facilities being located in supermarket car parks)

Yebbut in your case, to reclaim the deposit, more staff or time would be
needed. I'm not saying it's a bad scheme, just that I doubt it would work as
well as you and I would like.

In supermarkets in Copenhagen they had machines that took bottles and
gave you the deposit back.

Nowadays they have machines that give you a bicycle in order that you
can ride around the city. The idea was that you could leave it at
another machine and get your money back. The City Bike Program.

They even managed to persuade misguided sponsors like Coca Cola to
sponsor them with logos on the side.

Like many other similar tourist attractions like the mermaid in
Copenhagen Harbour and the Maneken Pis in Brussels, this is a big
disappointment.

A lot of the bicycles end up in one of the lakes or the harbour because
the ROI is not worth it.

On 2008-02-08 17:09:18 +0000, David Hansen
said:

On Fri, 8 Feb 2008 16:26:20 +0000 someone who may be Andy Hall
wrote this:-

Those who see no reason not to lob everything in a giant wheelie bin
should consider the little film at
http://www.foe-scotland.org.uk/resources/minisites/landfill to see
what happens to it.

I'm just amazed that people have got the spare time to waste on this nonsense.

What is nonsensical about the film?

It is not that long, from memory about ten minutes. It can be
stopped and started should one wish. I doubt if anyone is so busy
that they cannot watch it in one window while doing something else
in another.

It's not the film.

It's the whole idea that people, in all seriousness would spend time
messing about with packaging, sorting out plastic, washing bits and
pieces under the tap, disinfecting with bleach, removing labels and
putting the proceeds into different boxes and bags.

Please tell me who these people are. I have a great range of brushes,
double glazing and Lottery tickets that they will find interesting.

In the meantime, the Ruskies have added several more large Mercs to the
streets of Moscow, the Chinese have added goodness knows what and the
inhabitants of Alexandria have burnt the insulation from several
hundred more metres of phone cable that they pulled from a manhole in
Johannesburg this afternoon.

However, the inhabitants of the Peoples' Republic of Sheffield will be
able to rest in their beds secure in the knowledge that their
fortnightly collected, rat infested wheelie bin will be making a much
larger contribution to ecowank than that of their neighbours in
Rotherham.

I despair. I really do.

This all makes the Archbishop of Canterbury look like a sane human being.

On Fri, 8 Feb 2008 17:33:06 +0000 someone who may be chris French
wrote this:-

In supermarkets in Copenhagen they had machines that took bottles and
gave you the deposit back.

A reverse vending machine. Search engines will pull up a lot of
information about them.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

On Fri, 8 Feb 2008 23:10:17 +0000 someone who may be Andy Hall
wrote this:-

It's not the film.

Glad to hear that you now state that the film is not nonsense.

The question then becomes whether one is too idle to do anything
about it, other than occasionally whining that others should do
something first, or not.

As I said, not producing the waste in the first place is by far the
best approach.



--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

On Fri, 8 Feb 2008 19:40:35 -0000 someone who may be "Mungo \"Two
Sheds\" Toadfoot" wrote this:-

Yes, yes, I've read all the happy clappy writings on many subjects but
whether it's true or not is the big question.

Feel free to investigate further should you feel the need to. I gave
you the answer to your question, should you desire not to believe
the answer then you should do some further work on it.



--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

David Hansen wrote:

On Fri, 8 Feb 2008 23:10:17 +0000 someone who may be Andy Hall
wrote this:-

It's not the film.

Glad to hear that you now state that the film is not nonsense.

He never did state that the film was nonsense.

David Hansen wrote:
On Fri, 8 Feb 2008 19:40:35 -0000 someone who may be "Mungo \"Two
Sheds\" Toadfoot" wrote this:-

Yes, yes, I've read all the happy clappy writings on many subjects
but whether it's true or not is the big question.

Feel free to investigate further should you feel the need to. I gave
you the answer to your question, should you desire not to believe
the answer then you should do some further work on it.

You gave me *an* answer, and I thank you for it.

Si

in 704753 20080207 215020 Andy Hall wrote:
On 2008-02-07 18:39:07 +0000, "Mungo \"Two Sheds\" Toadfoot"
said:

How much energy is saved by the recycling efforts of the average 3 bed
household on a weekly basis?

The reason I ask is that we have to wash every tin, bottle and bit of
plastic that we have to recycle and I'm thinking that we're using more hot
water now than we used to and that water is heated with gas and/or
electricity...

Si

Probably none.

The reality is that it is pointless, politically correct ********.

What you are being asked to do is the local authorities work for them,
in order that they can reduce their costs and meet the handed down
commitments resulting from acquiescence to nitwits in Brussels.

Sorry, Andy, but trotting out the old "nitwits in Brussels" chestnut does
nothing for your case. European legislation has raised standards in
Britain in quite a few areas