"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
Broadback wrote:
Huge wrote:
On 2008-02-07, Mungo "Two Sheds" Toadfoot
wrote:
How much energy is saved by the recycling efforts of the average 3 bed
household on a weekly basis?

Next to none.

The reason I ask is that we have to wash every tin, bottle and bit of
plastic that we have to recycle and I'm thinking that we're using more
hot water now than we used to and that water is heated with gas and/or
electricity...

Si



Most of this is encouraged by the "Global warming save the world"
rubbish. I accept there is global warming, but not that it is caused by
man. Anyway it is not save the world (the world will get over it quite
easily) it is save mankind. I believe in re-cycling if it nurtures
natural resources for the future, however does sending tons of glass
bottles to China to be recycled help? Also the inconsistencies of
recycling is rubbish (pun intended). For example our council's local
recycling centre have a bin for waxed containers, however we cannot put
them in our recycling bin.

I accept there is global warming and that it IS (largely) caused by
man,and that its a very important issue.

However as those who follow my ramblings know, just about every european
initiative to tackle it is a complete and utter waste of time: This one is
the same.

Its a scam to link waste disposal with resource frugality and enforce
recycling: if the materials are in short supply, the price will rise till
we find it worth selling our rubbish to e.g. scrap metal dealers.

Apart from toxic wastes, landfill or burning is the correct and proper way
to put back in the ground, or air, what came from the ground, or air, in
the first place.

All bottles are good for is making hardcore anyway. Or chuck em in the sea
and let them go back to being nice pebbles and sand.


Cans are easily sorted via electromagnets..steel ones anyway. Not sure in
te tin is recoverable,but its getting valuable.

As far as aluminium cans go, well they will rot pretty quickly anyway. A
few hundred years max. Bury them.

Why? Its easy to separate alu cans from steel and other non-metallic cr@p.

"Mary Fisher" wrote in message
t...

"Mogga" wrote in message
...

...

... We've been given two food recycling bins;
one small for the kitchen and one big for outside. We were given a
roll of special bags but they're quite dear so I'm using newspaper
were possible to wrap food waste.

The notion of wasting food is abbhorent.

Mary

The starving think what you put in the compost is a waste, so tread
carefully when you say things you may regret.

"Tim Southerwood" wrote in message
...
Mary Fisher coughed up some electrons that declared:


"Tim Southerwood" wrote in message
...
I know what the future is: returnable glass bottles with a deposit.
It worked in 1970 and it can work now, if someone can kick the industry
up the backside to (re)organise it.

You must be very young, we were doing that in the 1940s, and probably
since stoneware bottles were used come to think of it.

Indeed.


There is no reason a well made glass bottle needs to be considered
single
use.

Indeed there isn't, but I suspect that most shoppers wouldn't choose to
have a scratched wine bottle. You can't help scratches on glass over
several uses.

That's a possible concern, but I don't remember any issues with Corona pop
bottles (which are the ones I remember with a 10p deposit). Nor milk
bottle
for that matter.

Think about it:

Retailer sells bottle plus product.

Customer consumes product.

a) Customer returns bottle on next visit (they almost do this now, with
many
glass recycling facilities being located in supermarket car parks)

Yebbut in your case, to reclaim the deposit, more staff or time would be
needed. I'm not saying it's a bad scheme, just that I doubt it would work
as well as you and I would like.

It may be a shift of labour.

Its practicality.. who is going to sort all the different shapes and sizes,
pack them up, store them until there is enough to ship, etc.
It worked with milk because there was a milk bottle, not 400 different
shaped milk bottles.. so sometimes it said express dairies and sometimes
asda but who cared. It is the marketers that make reuse difficult in their
attempt to make brand image.. nothing will change until they are
sacked/re-trained.


I heard of recycling plants where hand labour
is needed to sort recycables, so in the grand scheme of things it may not
make much difference.

That would be true for plastics. Maybe if they put different fluorescent
dyes in plastic a machine could grind plastic up and separate the types
using air jets?

A more radical, and even more old fashioned idea
might be to sell liquid products on-tap and the customer brings their own
recepticle. Probably to inconvenient for most people with their hectic
lives thought.

Ah yes.. just put a pint of bleach in this pop bottle for me please.

I honestly don't know what's so difficult about that, apart from someone
actually needs to organise it.

How about volunteering?

No point. There is nothing I could do. This needs the impetus and might of
central government. It's what they *should* be doing for the money I pay
them, instead of buggering around with irrelevant and unpopular crap like
Part P, ID cards and wars in countries which are none of our concern.

Impetus starts at zero. Where would we be if Fleming had said that?.. hang
on he did say that.


No glass needs to be melted,

Some would, because of breakages.

Of course. But I would expect a low percentage.

It needs to be a high enough percentage to keep the glass production going..
it take far less energy to make glass if some of it is recycled than if none
is.


major legs of the return transport are just
using spare capacity. Very energy efficient I would have though.

More energy efficient to use lightweight plastic bottles, the weight of
glass is responsible for a lot of fossil fuel use.

This is a reasonable argument on the face of it, but what if you factor in
the cost of production of said plastic, including the fact that it
requires
oil which is a finite resource and possibly better used for other things
(like lubrication products). I'm not convinced though, that the extra
percentage of fuel used to transport the weight of glass over plastic is
that significant, given the weight of the bottle is a small ratio of the
total weight of bottle plus product.

Well they could start by not shipping bottled water about.. it isn't better
than tap water and pollutes like hell.
Then there are other minor things like dumping cosmetics and jewelry as both
kill and pollute for nothing.


It is difficult to evaluate without studying all the costs involved, which
is why I keep an open mind rather than taking the green argument as
gospel.

The greet argument is fine.. the reasons for doing it are a bit dodgy if
global warming is the reason.

Cheers

Tim

"Huge" wrote in message
...
On 2008-02-08, Frank Erskine wrote:
On Fri, 8 Feb 2008 11:58:15 -0000, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:


We have plastic milk bottles,

Glass ones are better - collected by the milkman when he delivers more
milk, so quite EF...

Milkman? Delivers?

They deliver here but the fresh skimmed milk is vile.. They won't deliver
uht skimmed milk so its the local asda for milk.

To those that haven't tried it uht skimmed milk is totally different to
fresh skimmed milk in every respect.

On Thu, 7 Feb 2008 21:50:20 +0000 someone who may be Andy Hall
wrote this:-

What you are being asked to do is the local authorities work for them,
in order that they can reduce their costs

An interesting assertion. In fact most people have more collections
than they used to, but what is collected varies from collection to
collection. How these extra collections are cheaper I don't know and
you failed to state how they are cheaper last time.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

In article ,
Huge writes:
Milkman? Delivers?

I stopped using one 20 years ago. Reasons:
Could no longer ask for an extra pinta on the day because the milkman
only purchased exactly what he had orders for each day from the dairy.
Milk nowhere near as fresh as from the supermarket.
Became significantly more expensive than supermarket.
Didn't always turn up until after we'd gone out for the day.
The bottles were a poor use of space in the fridge.

My parents still use their milkman, and they get other things such
as orange juice and cheese from him. He only stops at a few of the
houses in the street now, whereas it was nearly all 50 of them when
I was at school (and there was a mobile greengrocer who called twice
a week too back then).

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

In message , Andrew Gabriel
writes
In article ,
Huge writes:
Milkman? Delivers?

I stopped using one 20 years ago. Reasons:
Could no longer ask for an extra pinta on the day because the milkman
only purchased exactly what he had orders for each day from the dairy.
Milk nowhere near as fresh as from the supermarket.
Became significantly more expensive than supermarket.
Didn't always turn up until after we'd gone out for the day.
The bottles were a poor use of space in the fridge.

The final straw (so to speak ) with mine was that he didn't seem to
understand that I didn't appreciate being woken up at 7am on a sunday to
pay him


--
geoff

geoff wrote:
In message , Andrew Gabriel
writes
In article ,
Huge writes:
Milkman? Delivers?

I stopped using one 20 years ago. Reasons:
Could no longer ask for an extra pinta on the day because the milkman
only purchased exactly what he had orders for each day from the dairy.
Milk nowhere near as fresh as from the supermarket.
Became significantly more expensive than supermarket.
Didn't always turn up until after we'd gone out for the day.
The bottles were a poor use of space in the fridge.

The final straw (so to speak ) with mine was that he didn't seem to
understand that I didn't appreciate being woken up at 7am on a sunday to
pay him


And our final straw was when we got a note saying that the dairy was
stopping all rounds immediately. Didn't leave a lot of choice.

--
Rod

The message
from geoff contains these words:

writes
In article ,
Huge writes:
Milkman? Delivers?

I stopped using one 20 years ago. Reasons:
Could no longer ask for an extra pinta on the day because the milkman
only purchased exactly what he had orders for each day from the dairy.
Milk nowhere near as fresh as from the supermarket.
Became significantly more expensive than supermarket.
Didn't always turn up until after we'd gone out for the day.
The bottles were a poor use of space in the fridge.

I still have milk delivered although the current incarnation only
manages 3 days a week. As he has to walk 60 yards down my drive I try
and make a point of always advising changes to my order in advance so I
don't know whether he carries any surplus stock.

As I only go shopping once or twice a fortnight I would be seriously
inconvenienced if the deliveries stopped. I like my milk fresh aand
certainly can't stand the taste of that UHT muck. In the days before
unpasterised milk was banned from the doorstep a previous incarnation
occasionally left me a bottle of greentop by mistake. To me it tasted
better than silver (full cream) milk and vastly better than the semi
skimmed I have been persuaded to use on health grounds but as it seemed
to me that the risks from unpasturised outweighed the benefit I never
actually ordered any.

The final straw (so to speak ) with mine was that he didn't seem to
understand that I didn't appreciate being woken up at 7am on a sunday to
pay him

Sunday deliveries went with the previous incarnation (who delivered 4
times a week).

I currently get a bill every 4 weeks. Previous incarnations got a
proforma as and when I remembered to put it out which certainly wasn't
as regular as every 4 weeks. I have had at least 6 different milkmen
since I moved here some 30 years ago and I can't actually remember any
of them calling and expecting to be paid although I suppose the first
one must have done. The only time I remember seeing any of them was when
I happened to be going out early at the same time as they were
delivering. I am sure some I never met at all.

--
Roger Chapman

Broadback wrote:
Huge wrote:
On 2008-02-07, Mungo "Two Sheds" Toadfoot
wrote:
How much energy is saved by the recycling efforts of the average 3
bed household on a weekly basis?

Next to none.

The reason I ask is that we have to wash every tin, bottle and bit
of plastic that we have to recycle and I'm thinking that we're
using more hot water now than we used to and that water is heated
with gas and/or electricity...

Si




Most of this is encouraged by the "Global warming save the world"
rubbish. I accept there is global warming, but not that it is caused
by man.

At long last someone who can see clearly.



--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
01634 717930
07850 597257

On Fri, 08 Feb 2008 11:02:23 +0000, Broadback wrote:

Most of this is encouraged by the "Global warming save the world"
rubbish. I accept there is global warming, but not that it is caused by
man.

I'm not saying you're wrong, I certainly don't know enough, but ......

You're disputing what scientists from all over the world are telling us ?
Future generations are going to just love the millions of people like you
if the scientists are right :-(

Why do you say that global warming is not caused by man ?
--
Regards,

Hugh Jampton

On Fri, 8 Feb 2008 11:51:41 -0000, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:


"Mogga" wrote in message
.. .

...

... We've been given two food recycling bins;
one small for the kitchen and one big for outside. We were given a
roll of special bags but they're quite dear so I'm using newspaper
were possible to wrap food waste.

The notion of wasting food is abbhorent.

Wasting Food ! = Food Waste.

DG

On Fri, 08 Feb 2008 13:11:44 +0000, David Hansen
wrote:

Such an approach sounds rather Socialist to me.

Oh, well. That's it then.

DG

On 2008-02-09 16:34:04 +0000, Bob Martin said:

in 704753 20080207 215020 Andy Hall wrote:
On 2008-02-07 18:39:07 +0000, "Mungo \"Two Sheds\" Toadfoot"
said:

How much energy is saved by the recycling efforts of the average 3 bed
household on a weekly basis?

The reason I ask is that we have to wash every tin, bottle and bit of
plastic that we have to recycle and I'm thinking that we're using more hot
water now than we used to and that water is heated with gas and/or
electricity...

Si

Probably none.

The reality is that it is pointless, politically correct ********.

What you are being asked to do is the local authorities work for them,
in order that they can reduce their costs and meet the handed down
commitments resulting from acquiescence to nitwits in Brussels.

Sorry, Andy, but trotting out the old "nitwits in Brussels" chestnut does
nothing for your case. European legislation has raised standards in
Britain in quite a few areas

Agreed, but not in this one.

On Fri, 8 Feb 2008 09:40:11 -0000, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:


"Doki" wrote in message
...


Glass isn't particularly green - containers are relatively bulky and
heavy, meaning you could get more into plastic containers, and save on
transport costs. Even if the plastic doesn't biodegrade, it is at least
small...

Wine is beginning to be bottled in plastic. It's the future.


Correction : It's the past.

20 Years ago a visiting engineer from France came to our company and
explained that "Vin Plonque" was cheap wine that came in 2 litre
plastic bottles.

Bacteria can readily grow on the internal surfaces of plastic bottles.
If the contents are wine the alcohol may supress them to some extent.

As can readily be determined by taking a taking a drink from a small
plastic bottle of spring water. It might well have been 50 million
years old but within 2 days it will be tainted.

DG

On 2008-02-09 17:40:59 +0000, David Hansen
said:

On Thu, 7 Feb 2008 21:50:20 +0000 someone who may be Andy Hall
wrote this:-

What you are being asked to do is the local authorities work for them,
in order that they can reduce their costs

An interesting assertion. In fact most people have more collections
than they used to, but what is collected varies from collection to
collection. How these extra collections are cheaper I don't know and
you failed to state how they are cheaper last time.

The issue is not one of the number of collections, but the number of
useful collections required by the paying customer.

On Sat, 09 Feb 2008 06:41:42 +0000, Dynamo Hansen
wrote:

On Fri, 8 Feb 2008 17:33:06 +0000 someone who may be chris French
wrote this:-

In supermarkets in Copenhagen they had machines that took bottles and
gave you the deposit back.

A reverse vending machine. Search engines will pull up a lot of
information about them.


Tell you what Dynamo, me old mate, me old tatey ...

I'd bet you a pound against a piece of **** the the machines which
dispense cash in return for empty bottles have to be much better
specified / built / calibrated than the ones that take in cash and
dispense full bottles of beverages ...

DG

On Fri, 8 Feb 2008 11:33:36 -0000, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:


"David Hansen" wrote in message

However, recycling is not as good as not having the packaging in the
first place.

Aye, there's the rub.

Those who see no reason not to lob everything in a giant wheelie bin
should consider the little film at
http://www.foe-scotland.org.uk/resources/minisites/landfill to see
what happens to it.

Ex ellent little film, I'm sure that no-one would choose to live near a
landfill site.

Have some of your fingers dropped off ?

Anyway we live close to 3 landfill sites (Including "Morley
Greaseworks", a name to conjur with if ever I saw one) plus a site
used to dispose of 1,000's of BSE Bovine corpses.

The impact on us is *ZERO* and property prices are unaffected.

As one of the interviewees said, we wouldn't stand people
dumping their wheelie bins in our back gardens yet some people have no
choice but to live with our rubbish.

But that's rubbish talk isn't it ?


Kevin Anderson's interview, saying that we must start making changes to
reducing carbon dioxide emissions NOW rather than thinking that what happens
in the future is OK, is spot on.

It's just Bollox is that. If you want goods industrially made there
will be waste streams.

Send it to China if you like and they'll just pick it over and burn
the rest (say 93%) on small bonfires, and that is what is what's
happening. The impact on the global eco-sphere is not changed one
Iota.

DG

On Fri, 8 Feb 2008 23:10:17 +0000, Andy Hall
wrote:


This all makes the Archbishop of Canterbury look like a sane human being.


It's a naught over naught equation but I wouldn't go that far.

8-|

DG

On Sat, 09 Feb 2008 06:45:11 +0000, David Hansen
wrote:

On Fri, 8 Feb 2008 23:10:17 +0000 someone who may be Andy Hall
wrote this:-

It's not the film.

Glad to hear that you now state that the film is not nonsense.


He didn't say that.

DG

The Medway Handyman wrote:
Broadback wrote:
Huge wrote:
On 2008-02-07, Mungo "Two Sheds" Toadfoot
wrote:
How much energy is saved by the recycling efforts of the average 3
bed household on a weekly basis?

Next to none.

The reason I ask is that we have to wash every tin, bottle and bit
of plastic that we have to recycle and I'm thinking that we're
using more hot water now than we used to and that water is heated
with gas and/or electricity...

Si




Most of this is encouraged by the "Global warming save the world"
rubbish. I accept there is global warming, but not that it is caused
by man.

At long last someone who can see clearly.

"Now the rain has gone." Sorry, I'm of a certain age: it reminded me of a
TOTP hit of years ago. I'll get my coat, bye!

On Fri, 8 Feb 2008 09:37:41 -0000, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:


"Mungo "Two Sheds" Toadfoot" wrote in message
...
How much energy is saved by the recycling efforts of the average 3 bed
household on a weekly basis?

The reason I ask is that we have to wash every tin, bottle and bit of
plastic that we have to recycle and I'm thinking that we're using more hot
water now than we used to and that water is heated with gas and/or
electricity...

Si

Can't you wash them in cold water?


Does that work as well as hot water ?

Do you get washed in cold water ?

Do you do the washing up in cold water?

From what I recall you fire up a 20-30 Kw boiler to do the washing up
for 3 people. (You weren't aware or didn't care exactly how much it
was)

What a load of cant.

DG

Derek Geldard wrote:
On Fri, 8 Feb 2008 09:40:11 -0000, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:


"Doki" wrote in message
...


Glass isn't particularly green - containers are relatively bulky and
heavy, meaning you could get more into plastic containers, and save
on transport costs. Even if the plastic doesn't biodegrade, it is
at least small...

Wine is beginning to be bottled in plastic. It's the future.


Correction : It's the past.

20 Years ago a visiting engineer from France came to our company and
explained that "Vin Plonque" was cheap wine that came in 2 litre
plastic bottles.

Bacteria can readily grow on the internal surfaces of plastic bottles.
If the contents are wine the alcohol may supress them to some extent.

Indeed they can, just as in a glass container. Initial sterility is the
issue.


As can readily be determined by taking a taking a drink from a small
plastic bottle of spring water. It might well have been 50 million
years old but within 2 days it will be tainted.

Of course; spring water is not sterile, likely to contain more bacteria than
mains water. Mains water has chlorine ( or other chemicals) to maintain
sterility.

On Fri, 8 Feb 2008 12:20:04 -0000, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:


"Frank Erskine" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 8 Feb 2008 11:58:15 -0000, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:


We have plastic milk bottles,

Glass ones are better - collected by the milkman when he delivers more
milk, so quite EF...

I agree.

Get on with it then.

DG

In message , Clot
writes
The Medway Handyman wrote:
Broadback wrote:
Huge wrote:
On 2008-02-07, Mungo "Two Sheds" Toadfoot
wrote:
How much energy is saved by the recycling efforts of the average 3
bed household on a weekly basis?

Next to none.

The reason I ask is that we have to wash every tin, bottle and bit
of plastic that we have to recycle and I'm thinking that we're
using more hot water now than we used to and that water is heated
with gas and/or electricity...

Si




Most of this is encouraged by the "Global warming save the world"
rubbish. I accept there is global warming, but not that it is caused
by man.

At long last someone who can see clearly.

"Now the rain has gone." Sorry, I'm of a certain age: it reminded me of a
TOTP hit of years ago. I'll get my coat, bye!


Me too, but I managed to resist ...

--
geoff

On Fri, 8 Feb 2008 19:40:35 -0000, "Mungo \"Two Sheds\" Toadfoot"
wrote:

David Hansen wrote:
On Fri, 8 Feb 2008 09:58:25 -0000 someone who may be "Mungo \"Two
Sheds\" Toadfoot" wrote this:-

I'm not saying recycling's not a good idea but is it doing any good
or is the work required in doing it actually outweighing the
benefits?

I'm quite sure you are capable of looking this up for yourself.
However, for once I will indulge in some spoon feeding
http://www.wasteawarescotland.org.uk/html/recycle_cans.asp gives
some figures.

Yes, yes, I've read all the happy clappy writings on many subjects but
whether it's true or not is the big question. Look how many people shout
from the rooftops that vegetable oils are good for you and natural,
saturated fats kill you dead, for example.

You are not allowed to illuminate to Dynamo Hansen that issue.

Next you will be saying that having two different systems of law in
one Judiciary cannot be workable.

Such thoughts are not permitted.

DG

geoff wrote:
In message , Clot
writes
The Medway Handyman wrote:
Broadback wrote:
Huge wrote:
On 2008-02-07, Mungo "Two Sheds" Toadfoot
wrote:
How much energy is saved by the recycling efforts of the average
3 bed household on a weekly basis?

Next to none.

The reason I ask is that we have to wash every tin, bottle and
bit of plastic that we have to recycle and I'm thinking that
we're using more hot water now than we used to and that water is
heated with gas and/or electricity...

Si




Most of this is encouraged by the "Global warming save the world"
rubbish. I accept there is global warming, but not that it is
caused by man.

At long last someone who can see clearly.

"Now the rain has gone." Sorry, I'm of a certain age: it reminded me
of a TOTP hit of years ago. I'll get my coat, bye!


Me too, but I managed to resist ...

My Respect, Man!

Derek Geldard wrote:
On Fri, 8 Feb 2008 11:33:36 -0000, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:


"David Hansen" wrote in message

However, recycling is not as good as not having the packaging in the
first place.

Aye, there's the rub.

Those who see no reason not to lob everything in a giant wheelie bin
should consider the little film at
http://www.foe-scotland.org.uk/resources/minisites/landfill to see
what happens to it.

Ex ellent little film, I'm sure that no-one would choose to live
near a landfill site.

Have some of your fingers dropped off ?

Anyway we live close to 3 landfill sites (Including "Morley
Greaseworks", a name to conjur with if ever I saw one) plus a site
used to dispose of 1,000's of BSE Bovine corpses.

The impact on us is *ZERO* and property prices are unaffected.

As one of the interviewees said, we wouldn't stand people
dumping their wheelie bins in our back gardens yet some people have
no choice but to live with our rubbish.

But that's rubbish talk isn't it ?


Kevin Anderson's interview, saying that we must start making changes
to reducing carbon dioxide emissions NOW rather than thinking that
what happens in the future is OK, is spot on.

It's just Bollox is that. If you want goods industrially made there
will be waste streams.

Send it to China if you like and they'll just pick it over and burn
the rest (say 93%) on small bonfires, and that is what is what's
happening. The impact on the global eco-sphere is not changed one
Iota.


I did not think that the FOE film was of any help to the debate; it was
emotional and displayed little fact. I was involved many years ago in the
development of the EU Landfill Directive and tried to steer in a different
direction.

I also worked in Beijing in 2003 when I observed septa and octagenarians
fighting to collect plastics for recycling. If we have empty boats returing
to that area where good use can be made of "plastic rubbish" then we should
support this, rather than the very negative views I have seen here in the
UK.

On Sun, 10 Feb 2008 00:17:52 GMT someone who may be "Clot"
wrote this:-

I did not think that the FOE film was of any help to the debate; it was
emotional

Was it? Does it show weeping people or anything else which might be
called emotional?

and displayed little fact.

It isn't a dry university report. However, there is nothing wrong
with it because of that.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

On Sun, 10 Feb 2008 00:01:45 +0000 someone who may be Derek Geldard
wrote this:-

You are not allowed to illuminate to Dynamo Hansen that issue.

Excellent. Do keep it up.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

On Sat, 09 Feb 2008 23:48:38 +0000 someone who may be Derek Geldard
wrote this:-

Can't you wash them in cold water?

Does that work as well as hot water ?

I suspect it is adequate to wash tins, bottles and plastic for
recycling.

Do you get washed in cold water ?

Do you do the washing up in cold water?

Both irrelevant to the discussion of washing things for recycling.

From what I recall you fire up a 20-30 Kw boiler to do the washing up
for 3 people. (You weren't aware or didn't care exactly how much it
was)

As expected, another distortion. Mary has indicated that a
proportion of her hot water comes from a solar panel and if that
does not produce enough hot water on a particular day then IIRC the
boiler is used to warm the water. There is nothing unusual in using
a boiler to warm water.




--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

On Sat, 09 Feb 2008 20:41:24 GMT someone who may be "The Medway
Handyman" wrote this:-

Most of this is encouraged by the "Global warming save the world"
rubbish. I accept there is global warming, but not that it is caused
by man.

At long last someone who can see clearly.

Eight words are not as convincing an argument as the work of the
IPCC.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

Tim Southerwood wrote:

A more radical, and even more old fashioned idea might be to sell
liquid products on-tap and the customer brings their own recepticle.

I've just discovered that my local beer shop keeps a cask on at the
back. I hadn't realised until I saw someone leaving with a milk-bottle
full of beer the other night.

Pete

"David Hansen" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 8 Feb 2008 11:51:41 -0000 someone who may be "Mary Fisher"
wrote this:-

The notion of wasting food is abbhorent.

Indeed. However, a little food waste can feed the worms in the
wormery. Carrot peelings and the like.

If we do have carrot peelings (more often than not we eat whole carrots) the
hens eat them.

Shhh though - it's illegal ...

Unavoidable vegetable waste goes into the compost bins. The dog up the
street has the bones we don't use - after stock has been made from them.
Fish skin and bones are made into stock too but I don't put the remains in
the compost bins. It irks to throw food away :-(

And 'waste food' is akin to 'left over champagne' ...

:-)

Mary

"dennis@home" wrote in message
...


"Mary Fisher" wrote in message
t...

"Mogga" wrote in message
...

...

... We've been given two food recycling bins;
one small for the kitchen and one big for outside. We were given a
roll of special bags but they're quite dear so I'm using newspaper
were possible to wrap food waste.

The notion of wasting food is abbhorent.

Mary

The starving think what you put in the compost is a waste, so tread
carefully when you say things you may regret.

I've not met any starving people in Leeds since the war. That doesn't mean
there aren't any of course.

In principle I agree but sending what we call waste to the starving is
impossible.

What we shouldn't be doing is throwing away perfectly good food, it's an
insult to the producer/grower and, in the case of meat, to the animal. It's
also a great waste of energy.

Mary

"David Hansen" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 8 Feb 2008 11:33:36 -0000 someone who may be "Mary Fisher"
wrote this:-



Those with an interest in waste might like to peruse
http://www.messageinthewaves.com/facts.php which is about the
plague of plastic in the Pacific Ocean. There are a variety of films
and photographs on the site to see what effect the plastic has on
animals.

One of the people who made the film "Message in the Waves" for the
BBC, from which the clips are taken, was so shocked by what she saw
that when she got back home she made the town plastic bag free
http://www.plasticbagfree.com/


Yes, I heard her on Radio. It might spread. I know many people like us who
don't use plastic bags at all, it's annoying when shop assistants
automatically put things in bags. Some are irritated when we say we don't
want a bag :-(

Great oaks ...

Mary




--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

David Hansen wrote:

On Fri, 8 Feb 2008 09:58:25 -0000 someone who may be "Mungo \"Two
Sheds\" Toadfoot" wrote this:-

I'm not saying recycling's not a good idea but is it doing any good or
is the work required in doing it actually outweighing the benefits?

I'm quite sure you are capable of looking this up for yourself.
However, for once I will indulge in some spoon feeding
http://www.wasteawarescotland.org.uk/html/recycle_cans.asp gives
some figures.

Not really.

It gives the bright and shiny kiddy feature version of the figures, but
only for aluminium cans. Al is one of the easier metals to recycle, and
the energetics are favourable since processing aluminium from bauxite
takes a great deal of energy - almost all of it from renewables BTW.

However that site takes no account of the energy used in cleaning,
collecting, processing and transporting Al cans. That is ignored in the
usual sleight of hand as they focus only on the cost of re-forming a
collection of cans into an ingot.

And the case you refer to is the most favourable case I can think of for
recycling. Recycling other materials, particularly paper and board and
food containers other than aluminium is more marginal. Again energy
saving from recycling tends to be exaggerated and a significant fraction
of the energy used in recycling is ignored as the savings expressed tend
to compare the differences in cost in processing raw materials compared
to recycled materials within the factory processing the material.
Trasnport costs appear to be frequently excluded in the case of
recycling and costed in the case of de novo production.

"Clot" wrote in message
...

....

Anyway we live close to 3 landfill sites (Including "Morley
Greaseworks", a name to conjur with if ever I saw one) plus a site
used to dispose of 1,000's of BSE Bovine corpses.

The impact on us is *ZERO* and property prices are unaffected.

Oh good, that's the most important part isn't it!

As one of the interviewees said, we wouldn't stand people
dumping their wheelie bins in our back gardens yet some people have
no choice but to live with our rubbish.

But that's rubbish talk isn't it ?

Why?

Clive George wrote:

Actually in Norway they go better than that - plastic bottles and drink
cans have a deposit on them too, and the plastic pop bottles are
returnable/reusable (they're a little bit stouter than the ones we have
here).

Doesn't one of the Scandiwegian countries have a ban on some kind of
drinks containers? Can't remember if it's plastic bottles or metal cans,
but whichever it is, they're not allowed in (IIRC) Sweden.

Pete

David Hansen wrote:
On Sat, 09 Feb 2008 20:41:24 GMT someone who may be "The Medway
Handyman" wrote this:-

Most of this is encouraged by the "Global warming save the world"
rubbish. I accept there is global warming, but not that it is caused
by man.

At long last someone who can see clearly.

Eight words are not as convincing an argument as the work of the IPCC.

The figurehead of the 'green jobs' industry. What percentage of the
population now earn thier (easy) living from the over hyped 'we are doomed
Capt Mannering' industry?

If climate change is man made why did the Thames freese over in 1410?
Because they didn't recycle plastic bottles?

--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
01634 717930
07850 597257