They have just started a curbside recycling system in my area and I have
been delivered of a series of coloured sacks for separating out materials
( tins and cans, textiles, and newspapers).
This is a complicated system because in addition I have to put all glass
jars in a separate carrier ( presumably a recycled one for the supermarket.
All other rubbish is still collected weekly and most folks here ( including
me) use black bin sacks ( I have a dustbin outside I put this into also)
Recycling bags are collected fortnightly.
It is not a tub or bin system like in other places I have been.

So, how do people cope?

I currently have two half filled sacks gracing the kitchen! They are under
foot and in the way!
I have nowhere to store them. The kitchen is not big enough to take any
extra waste bins ( I have one large pedal bin in a corner.

Any suggestions as to how I can set up a system for storing these bl**dy
bags? Looking at the size and speed they are filling, each bag is likely to
take at least a month to fill for me, so they have to hang around that long.
I cant keep tripping over them. I am getting fed up and soon , I'll sling
the SOB's out and S*D the saving the earth!
Anyone solved such a problem?

( remember there are three of them and I already have a bin in the kitchen
for "normal" waste, I cant think of a feasible way of having three large bin
containers in my kitchen and there is no space outside either)

They have just started a curbside recycling system in my area and I have
been delivered of a series of coloured sacks for separating out materials
( tins and cans, textiles, and newspapers).

This is a good scheme because most of the expense of recycling is in
separating out the different sorts of materials so if the homeowner
does the sorting then the whole scheme makes much more economic sense.
I agree that it is easy to proliferate containers though.

So, how do people cope?

I used to live in Bristol which had a presorted scheme like you. I
used to have one box (crate) in the kitchen which I collected all
recyclables in. Then when it was full I would decant into the various
containers which were stored in the garage.

In Babergh where I live now, we seem to be proliferating wheelie bins.
I suppose the powers that be think that there is more spare space here
in the country. We've only been doing any recycling for about a year
and our recyclables all go in one bin, unsorted at the moment, but I
bet they will start asking people to sort them once the system has
bedded in and everyone is used to it.

Anna

"Huge" wrote in message
...
"mich" writes:
They have just started a curbside recycling system in my area and I have
been delivered of a series of coloured sacks for separating out materials
( tins and cans, textiles, and newspapers).
This is a complicated system because in addition I have to put all glass
jars in a separate carrier ( presumably a recycled one for the
supermarket.
All other rubbish is still collected weekly and most folks here (
including
me) use black bin sacks ( I have a dustbin outside I put this into also)
Recycling bags are collected fortnightly.
It is not a tub or bin system like in other places I have been.

So, how do people cope?

Simple. Don't bother. The vast majority of recycling schemes are bunk. The
materials are either sold at a loss, imposing a cost on chargepayers, in
which case it wasn't worth recycling, or in some cases put in landfill
anyway.

Local Authorities are required to significantly reduce the amount put into
landfills. If people refuse to recycle, even when systems are in place,
that's bad. Even if it costs the taxpayer more money, its still necessary
as they have to recycle more and landfill less. Besides, if local
authorities don't reduce landfill, they'll lose funding from the Government,
which means taxes go up even more...

Recycling isn't meant to be a cheap alternative to landfill, its meant to
stop us from polluting (large landfills with plastics which don't really
decompose) and stop wasting resources (metal and plastics - plastics use
petrochemicals which are a finite resource).

D

"mich" wrote in message
...
So, how do people cope?

Here we have the recycle box scheme, collections fortnightly.
It is a very labour intensive operation using a special lorry with
compartments for each type of material. The operatives have to sort the
materials into various bins on the lorry with a terrific racket of breaking
glass, clattering tins and boxes being thrown about.

When the scheme started I put my stuff in the box but they didn't empty it.
Apparently the contents (clean) did not exactly fit their criteria. So now
I don't put anything out as there is a recyling centre at the main
supermarket and I just take it with me when I go there.

The local council is of a different colour to the government and much of
their effort is spent in political point scoring. The recyling scheme
selected
was probably chosen to provide the maximum political return.

Roger

"David Hearn" wrote in message
...

"Huge" wrote in message
...
"mich" writes:

It is not a tub or bin system like in other places I have been.

So, how do people cope?

Simple. Don't bother. The vast majority of recycling schemes are bunk.
The
materials are either sold at a loss, imposing a cost on chargepayers, in
which case it wasn't worth recycling, or in some cases put in landfill
anyway.

Local Authorities are required to significantly reduce the amount put into
landfills. If people refuse to recycle, even when systems are in place,
that's bad. Even if it costs the taxpayer more money, its still necessary
as they have to recycle more and landfill less. Besides, if local
authorities don't reduce landfill, they'll lose funding from the
Government,
which means taxes go up even more...

So much for the discussion about the importance or not of the ecological
issue but the reality is no one will recycle anything when it has to sit
reeking around a kitchen for weeks on end now will they?

If I put the bags out they get wet, rifled by foxes and cats and encourage
mice whilst sitting around , not to mention I get wet putting stuff in them.
In the kitchen they create smell and are a mess and are simply under foot.

So philosophical issues aside , what is the practical solution?

I will not use these bl**dy things if they continue to be inconvenient and
generally in my way. Thats a FACT.

As for the earth - well as my husbands father used to say "It'll last my
lifetime" ( and no I dont have any children to worry about. Let them take
care of their own problems anyway!)

On Sat, 8 Nov 2003 12:13:23 UTC, "mich" wrote:

So much for the discussion about the importance or not of the ecological
issue but the reality is no one will recycle anything when it has to sit
reeking around a kitchen for weeks on end now will they?

If I put the bags out they get wet, rifled by foxes and cats and encourage
mice whilst sitting around , not to mention I get wet putting stuff in them.
In the kitchen they create smell and are a mess and are simply under foot.

Exactly. My local council (Canterbury) used to have a schme where you
had a green wheelie bin for recycling, and a grey one for everything
else. Most rooms in the house were given two wate baskets, one for each,
and it all worked well.

They abruptly removed this system and moved to plastic bags. These blow
around when put out (and have to be put out the night before). There's
also nowhere to jkeep them in the house, and having a part-filled bag
kying around is just silly.

It all goes in the grey bin now.

--
Bob Eager
rde at tavi.co.uk
PC Server 325*4; PS/2s 9585, 8595, 9595*2, 8580*3,
P70...

Huge wrote:
(Anna Kettle) writes:

They have just started a curbside recycling system in my area and I have
been delivered of a series of coloured sacks for separating out materials
( tins and cans, textiles, and newspapers).

This is a good scheme because most of the expense of recycling is in
separating out the different sorts of materials so if the homeowner
does the sorting then the whole scheme makes much more economic sense.

Only if you don't cost your time!!!!

True, but then (a) it's time (therefore cost) neutral if you have space
for seperate containers, and (b) they don't (cost time that is, though
probably care as well)!

--
Chris
-----
Spamtrap in force: to email replace 127.0.0.1 with blueyonder.co.uk

Bluestars wrote:

"mich" wrote in message
...

So, how do people cope?


Here we have the recycle box scheme, collections fortnightly.
It is a very labour intensive operation using a special lorry with
compartments for each type of material. The operatives have to sort the
materials into various bins on the lorry with a terrific racket of breaking
glass, clattering tins and boxes being thrown about.

A similar system here - one big box, but put cans/bottles in their own
bags. Currently the box lives in the kitchen, but when I finsh the
cupboard under the stairs in the downstairs bathroom it'll go in there.

2 weeks almost exactly fills the box - mostly with junk mail and newspaper.

It's not really much easier than taking it to the supermarket each week,
except they take car batteries, oil and old clothes as well.

--
Chris
-----
Spamtrap in force: to email replace 127.0.0.1 with blueyonder.co.uk

"mich" wrote in message
...

"David Hearn" wrote in message
...

"Huge" wrote in message
...
"mich" writes:

It is not a tub or bin system like in other places I have been.

So, how do people cope?

Simple. Don't bother. The vast majority of recycling schemes are bunk.
The
materials are either sold at a loss, imposing a cost on chargepayers,
in
which case it wasn't worth recycling, or in some cases put in landfill
anyway.

Local Authorities are required to significantly reduce the amount put
into
landfills. If people refuse to recycle, even when systems are in place,
that's bad. Even if it costs the taxpayer more money, its still
necessary
as they have to recycle more and landfill less. Besides, if local
authorities don't reduce landfill, they'll lose funding from the
Government,
which means taxes go up even more...

So much for the discussion about the importance or not of the ecological
issue but the reality is no one will recycle anything when it has to sit
reeking around a kitchen for weeks on end now will they?

If I put the bags out they get wet, rifled by foxes and cats and
encourage
mice whilst sitting around , not to mention I get wet putting stuff in
them.
In the kitchen they create smell and are a mess and are simply under foot.

So philosophical issues aside , what is the practical solution?

I can see your problem and I'm not sure what we would have done if we didn't
have space outside. The way we have it (in Guildford) is that we get weekly
(was fortnightly) collections and we've provided with a Green Box
(realistically its just a free plastic crate with an optional lid for £1).
We put tins, jars and newspaper/mags (not cardboard or general paper) into
it, but into separate old Tesco bags. Makes it easy for the people putting
it into the Kerbsider truck if they're already separated.

We rinse/clean all tins and jars. I think this is a requirement by GBC.
This should mean that animals won't bother with them as they don't smell or
contain any food. Also makes them not smell in the house.

I would possibly suggest you invest in a largish (2' by 1.5' or so) plastic
crate with a lid and possibly a smaller box inside. Bung everything into
the small box inside and then (when its dry) take the contents outside and
separate into the separate bags the council have provided but keep in a box.
This keeps the bags dry (I hate plastic bags when they're wet, they drip on
you and things!) and also avoids any possibly problems with animals (which
should be reduced if they've been cleaned). The box makes it all the more
neater than 2 or 3 separate bags hanging outside.

The council should make it as easy as possible for people to recycle. GBC
have done a great job (weekly collections, free crate (though optional lid
£1) etc) and they're improving it this year with a 2nd(!!) box for
cardboard/paper.

Okay, we have to rinse the tins/jars - but that isn't much work really. But
its reduced the number of waste bags we put out each week. The only thing
we'd like them to take is plastic - but currently that's very expensive to
do because of the size to weight ratio (plastic is quite light, and has high
bulk which means the can't collect too much in their trucks) - so we have to
take that ourselves to their recycling station.

That's the only advice I can really give. I've no idea whether you've got
much space outside though.

Hope that helps

David

"Huge" wrote in message
...
(Anna Kettle) writes:
They have just started a curbside recycling system in my area and I have
been delivered of a series of coloured sacks for separating out
materials
( tins and cans, textiles, and newspapers).

This is a good scheme because most of the expense of recycling is in
separating out the different sorts of materials so if the homeowner
does the sorting then the whole scheme makes much more economic sense.

Only if you don't cost your time!!!!

How long does it take for you to put a tin into one box when you're finished
with it? Now, imagine if you have a box full of different things and then
have to separate them? Takes much longer. Then imagine you've got 5,000
boxes to do every day.

The cost of your time to put a tin into one box and a jar into another one
at a time (ie. as you finish with them) is probably no longer than it would
take to put into the bin. So your time hasn't probably cost anything, or
minimal compared to the time it would have taken if they had to separate
5,000 boxes of things. In the end, even if the Council workers did have to
separate them, you'd end up paying for it through Council Tax - probably at
an increased cost than your time would have cost you.

D

On Sat, 8 Nov 2003 12:13:23 -0000, mich wrote:

the reality is no one will recycle anything when it has to sit
reeking around a kitchen for weeks on end now will they?

So you wash or at least rinse, things before you put them in. Though I
guess if you normally use a dishwasher for the dirty plates, pans etc
then running a bowl of hot water just for that is waste of energy. If
you hand wash then it takes no more water just a little bit of time
and if people are running to a 5 minute schedule whilst at home they
really ought to learn to relax...

If I put the bags out they get wet, rifled by foxes and cats and
encourage mice whilst sitting around , not to mention I get wet
putting stuff in them.

Bags do seem to be a bit of non-starter but are no doubt cheaper (in
the short term) than providing boxes.

In the kitchen they create smell and are a mess and are simply under
foot.

So don't store them in the kitchen but the garage, utility room or
other suitable place. Ah Modern rabbit hutch houses no spare space...

So philosophical issues aside , what is the practical solution?

I will not use these bl**dy things if they continue to be
inconvenient and generally in my way. Thats a FACT.

Instead of complaining in here, send your opinion to those that are in
control of the scheme. Be polite and constructive if possible of
course.

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

"mich" wrote in message
...
So much for the discussion about the importance or not of the ecological
issue but the reality is no one will recycle anything when it has to sit
reeking around a kitchen for weeks on end now will they?

If I put the bags out they get wet, rifled by foxes and cats and
encourage
mice whilst sitting around , not to mention I get wet putting stuff in
them.
In the kitchen they create smell and are a mess and are simply under foot.


Materials are only acceptable for recycling if they are clean.

Rinsing the containers out takes me a only a moment and completely solves
the problem of smells and vermin.

Roger

"mich" wrote
| "David Hearn" wrote
| So, how do people cope?
| Simple. Don't bother. The vast majority of recycling schemes are
| bunk.
| Local Authorities are required to significantly reduce the amount
| put into landfills. If people refuse to recycle, even when systems
| are in place, that's bad. Even if it costs the taxpayer more money,
| its still necessary as they have to recycle more and landfill less.
| Besides, if local authorities don't reduce landfill, they'll lose
| funding from the Government, which means taxes go up even more...

But if the LAs lose funding from the Govt, local taxes might rise but
central taxes should drop correspondingly, so the overall tax burden should
stay the same. (It won't of course.)

| So much for the discussion about the importance or not of the ecological
| issue but the reality is no one will recycle anything when it has to sit
| reeking around a kitchen for weeks on end now will they?

The answer is for businesses to cut the amount of excess product packaging
at source, and have all waste packaging returned to the retailer for
re-use/recycle wherever possible. But they won't do that unless the Govt
makes them, and the Govt prefers to put the burden on the individual
householder.

If the Govt mandated the use of deposit glass bottles for all drinks that
would reduce the plastic and aluminium that needs to be disposed of from
milk bottles and cola cans, and a similar scheme should encourage brewers to
reuse beer bottles rather than pubs sending them for cullet.

Owain

It's not really much easier than taking it to the supermarket each week,
except they take car batteries, oil and old clothes as well.

We have very few cans and packets to put in our green recycle bin (emptied
once a month and rarely full even though I pick up cans and plastic bottles
from the street), the brown bin is emptied weekly and has even less in it)
because we don't buy pre-proecessed foods.

That's one answer to the problem.

Another is that empty cans and packets don't take up any more room than full
ones, if space can be found for the full ones why not the empty ones?

But of course cans are easy to flatten and then they take up a very small
amount of room. The same applies to packets. Paper is flat to start with.

Glass bottles aren't of course, we use a crate outside the door and take
them to the bottle bank when passing (the council doesn't take them).

Vegetable waste goes in the compost bin.

I don't see that collecting waste for re-cycling is a problem and I applaud
all authorites who do it - and those conscientious citizens who comply with
the collection schemes.

Mary

--
Chris
-----
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"Chris Hodges" wrote in message
...
Bluestars wrote:

"mich" wrote in message
...



2 weeks almost exactly fills the box - mostly with junk mail and
newspaper.

Its likely to take me more than a month ( and that will mean as much as six
weeks hanging around waiting for collection day) to fill a sack with
tins/cans etc as I dont use very many. I actually buy fresh food or grow it
and the wrappers - plastic bags and film etc for that food are all non
recyclable by the way (not my fault)

As for newspapers, that sack may take even longer to fill. I have few papers
or suitable junk letters and most of them end up on the fire ( I have a coal
fire). No mains gas where I live, and I have electric central heating.
The only thing I can put into this bag is my home shopping catalogue (
twice a year). They do not take the yellow pages, that has to be taken down
the supermarket or burned!
Quite honestly the very selected thigs they take are a waste of time for me
as I dont have many and I will be forever filling the bags


It's not really much easier than taking it to the supermarket each week,
except they take car batteries, oil and old clothes as well.

There is a third bag for old textiles ( clothes) but this bag is only for
selected items and you have to wash and dry them first!

So, my old clothes, which never get cast off before being ripped or beyond
redemption, will still have to be bagged and taken down the amenity tip!

Additionally, all foil has to be put in a carrier and put out inside the
tins bag. Jars have to be put out seprately in a carrier or box,( and where
do I put those between time too? And all cardboard and brown paper has to
be bundled and placed alone.

It would be easier to take it down the supermarket and put it in the skips.
Frankly I think they are taking the p*ss with my time and effort- and
without asking me first. And without thinking it through enough to suggest
storage solutions for the bags and simply failing to recognise how
inconvenient sacks over the kitchen floor are.

And they do smell , even with clean cans in. At least I can smell them, its
a thickness in the air, a whiff of something not pleasant not a distinct
dirty smell as such . Its hard to describe.

These bags were just dumped on the door step with a leaflet telling me I was
now in a recycling area.

The council will collect old batteries? Not so here. Would that they did,
might make it worthwhile.
I have to take such things to the amenity tip - and thats where my other
stuff ended up too as a rule if I got a pile up at all.

As for putting them outside. Despite the fact its all cleaned before
binning, I still think it will attract vermin ( I live in the country , the
vermin are in the hedge outside already. Its my hard paving, religious
clearing of the area and gravel areas that keep them at bay already. Putting
these bins near the house will simply attract the local wildlife and vermin
catchers.

On the other hand taking them down the garden far enough away means lugging
stuff down ( in cold and rain) and lugging it back out to the front when its
collection day. And then, I will have to invest in /make some form of
container for the bags. I can hardly leave them sitting about on the garden.
When empty they will fly away, when full they will be a curiosity to the
foxes and cats ( who love open bags as play things , and think can footie
is a wonderful pastime by moonlight! g)

So , hopefully you see my concerns and problems.

Has no one else got this sack scheme? Are you all on wheelie bins/ plastic
crates/ or whatever?

snip

What really confuses me is that they will accept glass bottles for
recycling, but not old window/picture glass; plastic bottles, but not other
plastic packaging (even when it's the same plastic!); news papers but not
yellow pages/old phone books/junk mail.....?

Recycling is important, I do all I can; but the rules just don't seem to
make any sense!

"Huge" wrote in message
...
"David Hearn" writes:

"Huge" wrote in message
...

[15 lines snipped]

Simple. Don't bother. The vast majority of recycling schemes are bunk.
The
materials are either sold at a loss, imposing a cost on chargepayers,
in
which case it wasn't worth recycling, or in some cases put in landfill
anyway.

[8 lines snipped]

Recycling isn't meant to be a cheap alternative to landfill, its meant to
stop us from polluting (large landfills with plastics which don't really
decompose) and stop wasting resources (metal and plastics - plastics use
petrochemicals which are a finite resource).

I'm well aware of that. But unless the materials *are* recycled, then it
is a waste of everyone's time and money. And if the recycled materials
are more expensive than new ones, then the entire process is pointless.

Why does recycled goods have to be cheaper than non-recycled? I'm not
someone who worships the environment, but I can see the sense in reducing
the amount of waste we just bury into the ground. There is a cost to this,
hence recycling may not be cheapest. There is also the thing that some
things have a finite resource (oil as a major one). Why bury goods which
requre oil to produce (eg. plastics) when they can be recycled? Surely its
better to do that than just hide it in the ground?

Personally, your posts almost sound like a troll who likes baiting people
who recycle.

D

"Huge" wrote in message
...
"David Hearn" writes:

"Huge" wrote in message
...
(Anna Kettle) writes:
They have just started a curbside recycling system in my area and I
have
been delivered of a series of coloured sacks for separating out
materials
( tins and cans, textiles, and newspapers).

This is a good scheme because most of the expense of recycling is in
separating out the different sorts of materials so if the homeowner
does the sorting then the whole scheme makes much more economic sense.

Only if you don't cost your time!!!!

How long does it take for you to put a tin into one box when you're
finished
with it?

There isn't space in my kitchen for such a scheme. I'm not keeping the
container in the utility room, because the heat from the boiler will
cause the food remains to stink, I'm not going outside with each and
every tin and if you wash the tins, you've just ****ed away the minimal
benefit from recycling them.

Rinsing takes practically no water if you do it at the end of the washing up
in the not-so-clean water. Enough to stop it smelling and makes it clean
enough for recycling.

Now, imagine if you have a box full of different things and then
have to separate them? Takes much longer. Then imagine you've got 5,000
boxes to do every day.

Bedford council already have a stupid scheme like this.


The cost of your time to put a tin into one box and a jar into another
one

Bearing in mind that there is no market for glass cullett in this country
and it all ends up as landfill or road surfacing.

Evidence to back this up?

"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
. 1...
On Sat, 8 Nov 2003 12:13:23 -0000, mich wrote:

the reality is no one will recycle anything when it has to sit
reeking around a kitchen for weeks on end now will they?

So you wash or at least rinse, things before you put them in.

For the record, I do rinse them, thats a requirement. But they still smell
of something not quite nice , especially after being in there for six weeks!

Though I
guess if you normally use a dishwasher for the dirty plates, pans etc
then running a bowl of hot water just for that is waste of energy.

I do have a dish washer - and so I do have to clean these separately.
Further, I have to be careful because if I put too much junk down the drains
it will clog them and b*gger up my septic tank eventually, probably.

If
you hand wash then it takes no more water just a little bit of time
and if people are running to a 5 minute schedule whilst at home they
really ought to learn to relax...

I dont have a schedule at home. Its simply as fast as possible because I
wouldnt have a life otherwise.
I already work more hours than I have available ( when you take out
travelling time) so every minute at home is precious.


Bags do seem to be a bit of non-starter but are no doubt cheaper (in
the short term) than providing boxes.

In the kitchen they create smell and are a mess and are simply under
foot.

So don't store them in the kitchen but the garage, utility room or
other suitable place. Ah Modern rabbit hutch houses no spare space...

I dont have a garage or an outside utility available for this! Not everyone
has a garage you know - and if I had a garage , I would want to put my car
in it, not use it a Steptoes - back -yard - recyling - in - waiting -centre.

I have a shed, but its my garden shed and its full of garden stuff ( lawn
mower etc) And I'll be b*ggered if I will give up my outside loo for the
job. I use the loo when I am gardening. I also have a greenhouse , and that
is a greenhouse, not a utility room in conversion.

I dont have a rabbit hutch house either - its a two bed bungalow but my
kitchen is fully fitted and the pantry is used as a pantry. There isnt a
"utility room". I do have a seperate dining room, but I am not going to eat
with this rubbish round me. I do have a lounge, but I refuse to sit with
refuse ( sorry about the pun) when watching TV
There is room for one bin only in my kitchen.


So philosophical issues aside , what is the practical solution?

I will not use these bl**dy things if they continue to be
inconvenient and generally in my way. Thats a FACT.

Instead of complaining in here, send your opinion to those that are in
control of the scheme. Be polite and constructive if possible of
course.

Now there is the rub. I dont know who to. It seems they have an outside
contractor doing it. Do I complain to the council who take b*gger all notice
anyway like as not, or to the contractor , who will probably care even less?

rant over.

"Bluestars" wrote in message
...

"mich" wrote in message
...

Rinsing the containers out takes me a only a moment and completely solves
the problem of smells and vermin.

How many times do I have to say this?

NO IT DOESN'T!

I do rinse them. They are well clean by the time they get in the sack, but
the sack still stinks. I can smell it. Its a thick , dirty person type smell
, as if I've had a tramp dossing in the kitchen at night.

As for the vermin. Ive already explained that too.
Foxes and cats like noting better ( just out of curiosity) than to get
inside plastic sacks and nose around and pull the contents out.
And mice scratch and bite the bags open just to see what they can find and
to live in (especially paper)

I am in the country and I do have a "problem" in that mice are a natural
part of life here. Given a chace they come in , especially in winter. The
only answer ( and I one I was given here actually) is to keep all outside
areas free of clutter and litter, hard pave or gravel rather than have
garden near the house and thus keep them away from the house.

Putting sacks out is tantamount to putting up B&B signs for the local
widlife population.



Roger

"Mary Fisher" wrote in message
et...


That's one answer to the problem.

Another is that empty cans and packets don't take up any more room than
full
ones, if space can be found for the full ones why not the empty ones?

So , are you suggesting I put empty cans back into the cupbards Ive taken
them out of , that is store them in with my food?

This is something many old ladies do , especially those who are finding it
hard to cope independently and are becoming senile. Ive taken many such a
poor soul into a care home because her house had been piled high with cans
( all nicely cleaned) and stacked in the kitchen cupboards next to her food
supplies.
And all nicely cleaned and stacked across the window sills, and in utility
areas etc..

Are you now telling me she was just recycling?

Well, I dont want to end up in care because the council send in their grime
team when it looks like my cupboards are bing used for storing empty tins.



But of course cans are easy to flatten and then they take up a very small
amount of room. The same applies to packets. Paper is flat to start with.

I am not disputing they take up little room when laid flat or squashed. But
still where do you store them?

I 've never kept a paper more than three days. Its usually burned or put in
the normal bin and took out weekly.
A sack is taking me several weeks to fill

And the council are requiring that they are given FULL SACKS. I cant just
send 'um off come hell or high water fortnightly.

My problem is a storage one caused because I dont generate enough waste
quickly enough.

"Martin" wrote in message
...
snip

What really confuses me is that they will accept glass bottles for
recycling, but not old window/picture glass; plastic bottles, but not
other
plastic packaging (even when it's the same plastic!); news papers but not
yellow pages/old phone books/junk mail.....?

Recycling is important, I do all I can; but the rules just don't seem to
make any sense!

I agree, it doesnt make sense. And why does junk mail go in with the
newspaper but cardboard has to be put seperately?

Why take plastic milk bottles but not plastic lemonade bottles?
There are so many exceptions.

"Huge" wrote in message
...
"Dave Liquorice" writes:
On Sat, 8 Nov 2003 12:13:23 -0000, mich wrote:


Sigh. Pop! goes the benfit of recycling them.

We have been told we have to clean them before putting them into the sacks,
so from the uninitiated why is this counter advantagous to their recycling
since thats the purpose?

I think rinsing is going to be a problem for my drains at some point with
all the gunge thats now going down the sink plughole, and I am responsible
for all the sh*t disposed of on my ground , it doesnt go into the mains
sewer.
I rely on land drains and septic tank.

"Bluestars" wrote in message ...
"mich" wrote in message
...
So, how do people cope?

Here we have the recycle box scheme, collections fortnightly.
It is a very labour intensive operation using a special lorry with
compartments for each type of material. The operatives have to sort the
materials into various bins on the lorry with a terrific racket of breaking
glass, clattering tins and boxes being thrown about.


Its noisy alright especially when the green
plastic container is chucked back into the
front from across the road.






When the scheme started I put my stuff in the box but they didn't empty it.
Apparently the contents (clean) did not exactly fit their criteria. So now
I don't put anything out as there is a recyling centre at the main
supermarket and I just take it with me when I go there.

The local council is of a different colour to the government and much of
their effort is spent in political point scoring. The recyling scheme
selected
was probably chosen to provide the maximum political return.

Roger

"Huge" wrote in message
...

Rinsing the containers out takes me a only a moment and completely

... wastes the benefit of recycling them.


Probably does on strict economic grounds, but as its marginal I would prefer
to see as much material as possible recycled rather than wasted.

When I looked into the local can bank about 3/4 of the cans were aluminium,
and at around 650 UKp a tonne scrap value (65p per kilo) I recon they are
on to a good thing, especially if the contractor quoted for clearing only
steel cans.

Incidently a couple of summers ago it became a nice little earner for those
who had the time to go round collecting aluminium beverage cans and weighing
them in.

Roger

On Sat, 8 Nov 2003 15:10:12 UTC, "David Hearn"
wrote:

Rinsing takes practically no water if you do it at the end of the washing up
in the not-so-clean water. Enough to stop it smelling and makes it clean
enough for recycling.

But if you have a dishwasher, that not-so-clean water is inaccessible.

I don't mind recycling....but my council have made it MUCH less
practical to do.

--
Bob Eager
rde at tavi.co.uk
PC Server 325*4; PS/2s 9585, 8595, 9595*2, 8580*3,
P70...

"mich" wrote in message
...

"Mary Fisher" wrote in message
et...


That's one answer to the problem.

Another is that empty cans and packets don't take up any more room than
full
ones, if space can be found for the full ones why not the empty ones?

So , are you suggesting I put empty cans back into the cupbards Ive taken
them out of , that is store them in with my food?

Don't be silly. I'm saying that you are prepared to store your cans etc.
full and don't complain about lack of space yet you're complaining of lack
of space to store them empty.

This is something many old ladies do ,

Oh - not old men?

especially those who are finding it
hard to cope independently and are becoming senile. Ive taken many such a
poor soul into a care home because her house had been piled high with cans
( all nicely cleaned) and stacked in the kitchen cupboards next to her
food
supplies.

MANY???

I don't believe that you've taken many old women into care because of this.
That hyperbole loses you all the waning credibility you had.


But of course cans are easy to flatten and then they take up a very
small
amount of room. The same applies to packets. Paper is flat to start
with.

I am not disputing they take up little room when laid flat or squashed.
But
still where do you store them?

I think you said that you had bags supplied? But it might have been someone
else.

I 've never kept a paper more than three days.

We don't have them, full stop. No waste.

Its usually burned

Contributing to the CO2 layer.

or put in
the normal bin and took out weekly.

Wasting a resource.

A sack is taking me several weeks to fill

In that case it wouldn't take up much room hanging in an outhouse.

And the council are requiring that they are given FULL SACKS. I cant just
send 'um off come hell or high water fortnightly.

Have you thought about co-operating with your neighbours to fill sacks so
that they would be full and removed more quickly?

My problem is a storage one caused because I dont generate enough waste
quickly enough.

That doesn't make sense, you know.

No, you don't know. Nor do you want to know.

Life has problems but most of them are soluble. Where there's a will there's
a way. You've been offered several solutions by contributors to this ng but
you don't seem to want to solve your perceived problem.

You'll just have to live with it.

Mary

In message , mich
writes

As for the earth - well as my husbands father used to say "It'll last my
lifetime" ( and no I dont have any children to worry about. Let them take
care of their own problems anyway!)

He might have had an excuse to be ignorant of the facts, you don't
--
geoff

"Bob Eager" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 8 Nov 2003 15:10:12 UTC, "David Hearn"
wrote:

Rinsing takes practically no water if you do it at the end of the washing up
in the not-so-clean water. Enough to stop it smelling and makes it clean
enough for recycling.

But if you have a dishwasher, that not-so-clean water is inaccessible.

My sister puts the cats tins in the dishwasher (with everything else).

She seems to genuinely think that LA have changed their scheme
(to lightweight plastic bags) to punish *her* for previously putting
dirty things in the old recycling bin.

tim



I don't mind recycling....but my council have made it MUCH less
practical to do.

--
Bob Eager
rde at tavi.co.uk
PC Server 325*4; PS/2s 9585, 8595, 9595*2, 8580*3,
P70...

"mich" wrote in message
...

How many times do I have to say this?

Not all postings appear on the news server instantaneously.
None of your other responses were visible on my server at the time I
responded.

Roger

"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
. 1...
On Sat, 8 Nov 2003 12:13:23 -0000, mich wrote:

the reality is no one will recycle anything when it has to sit
reeking around a kitchen for weeks on end now will they?

So you wash or at least rinse, things before you put them in. Though I
guess if you normally use a dishwasher for the dirty plates, pans etc
then running a bowl of hot water just for that is waste of energy.

Eh?

I rinse mine in cold water, I realise that there's an environmental
cost to this as well, but nowhere near the cost of hot.

tim

If
you hand wash then it takes no more water just a little bit of time
and if people are running to a 5 minute schedule whilst at home they
really ought to learn to relax...

If I put the bags out they get wet, rifled by foxes and cats and
encourage mice whilst sitting around , not to mention I get wet
putting stuff in them.

Bags do seem to be a bit of non-starter but are no doubt cheaper (in
the short term) than providing boxes.

In the kitchen they create smell and are a mess and are simply under
foot.

So don't store them in the kitchen but the garage, utility room or
other suitable place. Ah Modern rabbit hutch houses no spare space...

So philosophical issues aside , what is the practical solution?

I will not use these bl**dy things if they continue to be
inconvenient and generally in my way. Thats a FACT.

Instead of complaining in here, send your opinion to those that are in
control of the scheme. Be polite and constructive if possible of
course.

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

"Bluestars" wrote in message
...

"mich" wrote in message
...
So much for the discussion about the importance or not of the ecological
issue but the reality is no one will recycle anything when it has to sit
reeking around a kitchen for weeks on end now will they?

If I put the bags out they get wet, rifled by foxes and cats and
encourage
mice whilst sitting around , not to mention I get wet putting stuff in
them.
In the kitchen they create smell and are a mess and are simply under foot.


Materials are only acceptable for recycling if they are clean.

I woder if the people that make these rules think that the
original raw-materials were 'clean'?

tim


Rinsing the containers out takes me a only a moment and completely solves
the problem of smells and vermin.

Roger

"Mary Fisher" wrote in message
et...

So , are you suggesting I put empty cans back into the cupbards Ive
taken
them out of , that is store them in with my food?

Don't be silly.

I wasnt being silly, thats what you implied.

I'm saying that you are prepared to store your cans etc.
full and don't complain about lack of space yet you're complaining of lack
of space to store them empty.

But as I said earlier, I dont store many cans. I dont eat out of cans. Or
drink out of them.

This is getting a bit off topic now but , since you ask:

This is something many old ladies do ,

Oh - not old men?

Mostly old ladies. Men store dirty cans! g

especially those who are finding it
hard to cope independently and are becoming senile. Ive taken many such
a
poor soul into a care home because her house had been piled high with
cans
( all nicely cleaned) and stacked in the kitchen cupboards next to her
food
supplies.

MANY???

And yes despite your disbelief it is many. The problem is quite a common one
in the elderly. It vaires in degree ( perhaps because they are a war time
generation when recycling was also an issue(?) . I cant say for sure why,
but ask any social worker/ community nurse / health visitor and they will
tell you its a common symptom. Sometimes houses are stuffed full of papers
and rubbish in boxes. You could see it as eccentric, but in old people its
often an reason for putting them into care.
So the many stands and it was a statement, not hyperbole.


I think you said that you had bags supplied? But it might have been
someone
else.

I am supplied with sacks. Thats the problem. The bags are underfoot
everywhere I turn. I have nowhere to put them.

I 've never kept a paper more than three days.

Its usually burned

Contributing to the CO2 layer.

I make no excuse. I burn them. I put them on the fire in place of fire
lighters. I have few options except to use solid fuel in my home.


A sack is taking me several weeks to fill

In that case it wouldn't take up much room hanging in an outhouse.

I dont have an outhouse. I dont have a utility room. I dont have a garage.
I said I have nowhere to put them.
And not a lot of available room near the house. I wondered if someone had
come up with space saver method of putting these things safely somewhere.


Have you thought about co-operating with your neighbours to fill sacks
so
that they would be full and removed more quickly?

What neighbours? I dont have any. I live in the middle of nowhere. The
"curbside" is the main road running at the bottom of my lane which connects
several dispersed communities to the main town. hence the dust cart has to
come across it and I suppose someone thought it would be a good idea to
shove us on the list of stops along the way.

My problem is a storage one caused because I dont generate enough waste
quickly enough.

That doesn't make sense, you know.

Yes it does make sense. You dont want to understand. I suspect you are
putting principle before practicality and fail to realise that some of us
are living fairly eco friendly and ssustainable lives already and in fact
recycling is creating a problem where previously there was none or a lesser
one.

I dont have many cans of food ( two a week maybe) , so I dont have many to
recycle. Previously they would go out in the weekly bin (just one bin for
collection - and not always full)

Now, they are put into the sack. the sack then sits there waiting to be
filled slowly, week by week.

I dont have many newspapers - one on a weekend and maybe a mid week one (
hence I used to burn them on the fire I have to make to heat the house,
water and sometimes cook too). Junk mail was shreded and either composted or
but in the black sack, depending on how I felt.

Now I have been told to put them in a sack. The sack fills slowly, again
its sitting around the kitchen floor. I can barely move with sacks all over
the place.


Life has problems but most of them are soluble. Where there's a will
there's
a way. You've been offered several solutions by contributors to this ng
but
you don't seem to want to solve your perceived problem.

No I havent actually. Most of them have said the same as you - use an
outhouse, or garage or utility which I dont have, so living where I do, I
have to apply for planning permission for this construction and use up my
garden for something I dont want, to store sacks which are not really
practical for a cause which is disputable

You'll just have to live with it.

No. Ive made up my mind. reading the debate here - I am dumping the half
dozen cans into the black bin bag next week, putting the papers on the aga,
and getting my kitchen back.
I will remember in future to make sure I buy even fewer cans than I do now.
And since the paper is rubbish anyway, I'll just get a weekly TV mag for the
whats on guide and burn it when I've finished with it.

Now thats a solution isnt it?

"Bluestars" wrote in message
...

"mich" wrote in message
...

How many times do I have to say this?

Not all postings appear on the news server instantaneously.
None of your other responses were visible on my server at the time I
responded.

OK sorry. I am just fed up of being chided because I have no place to put
some stupid plastic sacks which are taking weeks to fill because basically I
am not a *waste generating* person anyway.

One black bag a week and couple of newspapers , which get burned. Very
little junk mail and thats it.
I dont think recycling is a suitable proposition for me.

Im just better dumping and taking stuff or taking it to the amenity tip.

"Huge" wrote in message
...

There is
no market for glass cullet in the UK. All recycled glass has to be used
for
landfill or road surfacings. Where's the point in that?

I don't think this can be true. Otherwise why would they bother to have
separate containers for different colours, and make a fuss about the type of
glass that can be put in.

Ditto for plastics.

I have seen on TV recycled material being made into laminate sheet.
I don't think there was any subsidy involved, but a principal factor in the
economics must be the integrety of the recycle material. Its obviously no
good if its contaminated with unsuitable plastic.

IMO part of the problem of getting the economics right is to ensure only the
right stuff goes in the recycle bank in the first place. From my
observations some people take no notice at all about what should be put in,
with a negative impact on viability since someone has to sort it out again.

Roger

Huge wrote:
Rinsing the containers out takes me a only a moment and completely

... wastes the benefit of recycling them.


Probably does on strict economic grounds, but as its marginal I would prefer
to see as much material as possible recycled rather than wasted.


Why? If it doesn't work on strict economic grounds, it doesn't work
on any other.

Depends how far ahead you look - landfill tax is escalating, and new
sites are becoming more expensive (as they're rarer) so costs are
rising. Incineration is unpopular with those who live near the
incinerators.

If you want a selfish point of view, you get more wheelie bin space
(assuming you're on them) - my local council won't take anything that's
not in the bin on the normal collection. Near where I work it's
rationed bin bags and recycling boxes.

If it's economics you're after - economies of scale.

If you were really worried about wasting water you could rinse them in a
bucket taken from the bath before emptying it, or use rainwater. I use
the end of the washing up water, as ther's no room for a dishwasher.

btw I was in Japan recently, where they have real space problems. You
have to sort rubbish into compostable, combustable, recyclables, etc.
At least one sort is collected almost daily.

--
Chris
-----
Spamtrap in force: to email replace 127.0.0.1 with blueyonder.co.uk

mich wrote:
And the council are requiring that they are given FULL SACKS. I cant just
send 'um off come hell or high water fortnightly.

That would appear to be simple stupidity on their part (unless they have
to make a journey specially). How about taking them when you go
shopping anyway, or is there no recycling bin at your supermarket/local
shops.

pet rant People who stop by the recycling bins at the supermarket,
engines on, while emptying their car off bottles etc, before driving
round to park as near the door as they can./pet rant

--
Chris
-----
Spamtrap in force: to email replace 127.0.0.1 with blueyonder.co.uk

"Huge" wrote in message
...
"Bluestars" writes:
Probably does on strict economic grounds, but as its marginal I would
prefer
to see as much material as possible recycled rather than wasted.

Why? If it doesn't work on strict economic grounds, it doesn't work
on any other.

I think there is more to life's values than strict economics.
Whether you think recycling is worthwhile just depends on your
outlook on life.

I'm sure you are well aware of all the recycling arguments, but someone has
to pay for the land fill, and if that cost can be put upon the producers
(like supermarkets), then maybe they won't use so much of it and the goods
may become cheaper.

Some hope....

Roger

snip (text recycled!)
The company for which I work now have to (by law) design and pay for end of
life products, this means we have to pay the recycling costs of all products
we design and manufacture. Why don't supermarkets have to do the same, and
take back the empties?

"mich" wrote in
:

OK sorry. I am just fed up of being chided because I have no place to
put some stupid plastic sacks which are taking weeks to fill because
basically I am not a *waste generating* person anyway.





I sympathise, mich, it sounds as though you live near me.

My black bag is stores in the foxproof shed so it can stink that out -
the pompous posters ignore the kitchen waste which the cat refused, or
the offcuts of gristle or chook bones, or the fat which will choke either
my arteries or the drains; which can only go in the black bag.

The recyclable, mainly lager cans, but the occasional milk plastic
bottle, stay outside the back door, looking ugly.

On the bright side, I only put out a black bag once a fortnight now, but
it's still all a bluddy bind

mike r