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#1
Posted to uk.d-i-y,alt.sci.physics,uk.telecom.mobile
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Southern Electric say each mobile phone charger uses 100kWhours a DAY!
Have a look - how can they get it so wrong by a magnitude of.....???
My chargers both say they use about 21mA max. Also, point 3 seems a little dubious too - AFAIK, the only things that use any significant power on standby are digiboxes. Surely the rest just take enough to keep the coil energised? My TV and video both use 4 watts on standby. http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c1...ic_charger.jpg |
#2
Posted to uk.d-i-y,alt.sci.physics,uk.telecom.mobile
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Southern Electric say each mobile phone charger uses 100kWhoursa DAY!
Jonathan wrote:
Have a look - how can they get it so wrong by a magnitude of.....??? My chargers both say they use about 21mA max. Also, point 3 seems a little dubious too - AFAIK, the only things that use any significant power on standby are digiboxes. Surely the rest just take enough to keep the coil energised? My TV and video both use 4 watts on standby. http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c1...ic_charger.jpg The whole lot is dubious at best. Down right misleading would be closer to the point. Always a problem when you have non technocal maketing droids write greenwash. Even if you ignore the 4kW phone charger, the advice to landfill a working freezer on the *assumption* is is drastically less efficent than your current one risky at best, and that is before you look at the life cycle energy of disposing of the old one and producing and supplying a new one. -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
#3
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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Southern Electric say each mobile phone charger uses 100kWhours a DAY!
On 28 Jan, 12:49, John Rumm wrote:
Jonathan wrote: Have a look - how can they get it so wrong by a magnitude of.....??? My chargers both say they use about 21mA max. Also, point 3 seems a little dubious too - AFAIK, the only things that use any significant power on standby are digiboxes. Surely the rest just take enough to keep the coil energised? My TV and video both use 4 watts on standby. http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c1...thern_electric... The whole lot is dubious at best. Down right misleading would be closer to the point. Always a problem when you have non technocal maketing droids write greenwash. Even if you ignore the 4kW phone charger, the advice to landfill a working freezer on the *assumption* is is drastically less efficent than your current one risky at best, and that is before you look at the life cycle energy of disposing of the old one and producing and supplying a new one. They must have looked awful hard to find an appliance that eats 85% rated load on standby. 100kWh/day is more like a questionable erstimate of the entire country's use, complete oblocks Anyone still conscious knows they cna save money by turning down the heat, and know why they dont do it. The bit about freezers will normally be true of early 70s units and faulty appliances, but just silly to suggest it applies to them all. NT |
#4
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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Southern Electric say each mobile phone charger uses 100kWhours a DAY!
wrote in message oups.com... On 28 Jan, 12:49, John Rumm wrote: Jonathan wrote: Have a look - how can they get it so wrong by a magnitude of.....??? My chargers both say they use about 21mA max. Also, point 3 seems a little dubious too - AFAIK, the only things that use any significant power on standby are digiboxes. Surely the rest just take enough to keep the coil energised? My TV and video both use 4 watts on standby. http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c1...thern_electric... The whole lot is dubious at best. Down right misleading would be closer to the point. Always a problem when you have non technocal maketing droids write greenwash. Even if you ignore the 4kW phone charger, the advice to landfill a working freezer on the *assumption* is is drastically less efficent than your current one risky at best, and that is before you look at the life cycle energy of disposing of the old one and producing and supplying a new one. They must have looked awful hard to find an appliance that eats 85% rated load on standby. 100kWh/day is more like a questionable erstimate of the entire country's use, complete oblocks Anyone still conscious knows they cna save money by turning down the heat, and know why they dont do it. The bit about freezers will normally be true of early 70s units and faulty appliances, but just silly to suggest it applies to them all. Just like it's silly for all the media (and government agencies) to continually say that *everyone* can save hundreds by switching supplier. Just how many times can I go araound this loop. Can I get to the point where someone will pay me for taking their electric? tim |
#5
Posted to uk.d-i-y,alt.sci.physics,uk.telecom.mobile
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Southern Electric say each mobile phone charger uses 100kWhours a DAY!
Jonathan wrote:
Have a look - how can they get it so wrong by a magnitude of.....??? My chargers both say they use about 21mA max. Also, point 3 seems a little dubious too - AFAIK, the only things that use any significant power on standby are digiboxes. Surely the rest just take enough to keep the coil energised? My TV and video both use 4 watts on standby. http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c1...ic_charger.jpg Its part of the 'good lie' which has become more common as of late. It doesnt matter if the information they tell you is misleading, or just plain incorrect, if it is in a good cause (as judged by them) then it is ok. Gaz |
#6
Posted to uk.d-i-y,alt.sci.physics,uk.telecom.mobile
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Southern Electric say each mobile phone charger uses 100kWhours a DAY!
"Gaz" wrote in message ... Jonathan wrote: Have a look - how can they get it so wrong by a magnitude of.....??? My chargers both say they use about 21mA max. Also, point 3 seems a little dubious too - AFAIK, the only things that use any significant power on standby are digiboxes. Surely the rest just take enough to keep the coil energised? My TV and video both use 4 watts on standby. http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c1...ic_charger.jpg Its part of the 'good lie' which has become more common as of late. It doesnt matter if the information they tell you is misleading, or just plain incorrect, if it is in a good cause (as judged by them) then it is ok. Gaz Many gullible people remember this crap. My TV only uses 0.8 of a watt on standby (not that I leave it on standby often). I am getting fed up of the greenies making everyone feel guilty about everything - there are bigger issues - like the pollution made in China by their dirty power stations and processes (producing goods for us that are then shipped half way around the world); destruction of rainforests, etc. People are only too happy to point their finger and tut everytime a politician of member of royal family use a car or aeroplane - but miss issues that are statistically more significant. |
#7
Posted to uk.d-i-y,alt.sci.physics,uk.telecom.mobile
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Southern Electric say each mobile phone charger uses 100kWhours a DAY!
Maybe the publicity dept got the decimal point in the wrong place
Should it not have been 100 x 10 to the power of -3 or 100mW, but then the publicity dept thought we are a generating company and do not deal in such small numbers, and dropped the minus sign and made it into 100kW. Or maybe the typist thought the engineers notes had just got a pencil mark on it, and did not transfer the minus sign ??? It does make you wonder how many eyes (on multi thousand pay packets) read that bit of paper before being published. |
#8
Posted to uk.d-i-y,alt.sci.physics,uk.telecom.mobile
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Southern Electric say each mobile phone charger uses 100kWhours a DAY!
Dear ukagent:
"ukagent" wrote in message ... Maybe the publicity dept got the decimal point in the wrong place Or maybe the typist thought the engineers notes had just got a pencil mark on it, and did not transfer the minus sign ??? It may have been extrapolated to their entire customer base, assuming each account had a similar device. David A. Smith |
#9
Posted to uk.d-i-y,alt.sci.physics,uk.telecom.mobile
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Southern Electric say each mobile phone charger uses 100kWhoursa DAY!
ukagent wrote:
Maybe the publicity dept got the decimal point in the wrong place Should it not have been 100 x 10 to the power of -3 or 100mW, but then the publicity dept thought we are a generating company and do not deal in such small numbers, and dropped the minus sign and made it into 100kW. Or maybe the typist thought the engineers notes had just got a pencil mark on it, and did not transfer the minus sign ??? It does make you wonder how many eyes (on multi thousand pay packets) read that bit of paper before being published. I have one of those energy monitors from Maplin, my mobile phone chargers use nothing when not plugged into the phone. |
#10
Posted to uk.d-i-y,alt.sci.physics,uk.telecom.mobile
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Southern Electric say each mobile phone charger uses 100kWhours a DAY!
I have one of those energy monitors from Maplin, my mobile phone chargers use nothing when not plugged into the phone. They will use a small amount. I expect its too low to show on the monitor. Dave |
#11
Posted to uk.d-i-y,alt.sci.physics,uk.telecom.mobile
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Southern Electric say each mobile phone charger uses 100kWhours a DAY!
"Dave R" wrote in message k... ukagent wrote: Maybe the publicity dept got the decimal point in the wrong place Should it not have been 100 x 10 to the power of -3 or 100mW, but then the publicity dept thought we are a generating company and do not deal in such small numbers, and dropped the minus sign and made it into 100kW. Or maybe the typist thought the engineers notes had just got a pencil mark on it, and did not transfer the minus sign ??? It does make you wonder how many eyes (on multi thousand pay packets) read that bit of paper before being published. I have one of those energy monitors from Maplin, my mobile phone chargers use nothing when not plugged into the phone. Is that the £26.99 one on the Maplin website?. How accurate is it at low current? |
#12
Posted to uk.d-i-y,alt.sci.physics,uk.telecom.mobile
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Southern Electric say each mobile phone charger uses 100kWhours a DAY!
"John" wrote in message ... Gaz Many gullible people remember this crap. My TV only uses 0.8 of a watt on standby (not that I leave it on standby often). What make and model is that? Is the 0.8W figure your own measured value, or a manufacturer figure? |
#13
Posted to uk.d-i-y,alt.sci.physics,uk.telecom.mobile
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Southern Electric say each mobile phone charger uses 100kWhours a DAY!
"OG" wrote in message ... "John" wrote in message ... Gaz Many gullible people remember this crap. My TV only uses 0.8 of a watt on standby (not that I leave it on standby often). What make and model is that? Is the 0.8W figure your own measured value, or a manufacturer figure? I don't know about his TV but Sony say that my LCD 23" uses 0.7W on standby - that seems very low and makes you inclined to question all of the figures being bandied around by the Government! Roger |
#14
Posted to uk.d-i-y,alt.sci.physics,uk.telecom.mobile
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Southern Electric say each mobile phone charger uses 100kWhours a DAY!
"OG" wrote in message ... "John" wrote in message ... Gaz Many gullible people remember this crap. My TV only uses 0.8 of a watt on standby (not that I leave it on standby often). What make and model is that? Is the 0.8W figure your own measured value, or a manufacturer figure? JVC AV-28WFT1EK - Approx 4 years old - 28 inch CRT Flat Screen. There is now a standard governing stand-by. |
#15
Posted to uk.d-i-y,alt.sci.physics,uk.telecom.mobile
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Southern Electric say each mobile phone charger uses 100kWhours a DAY!
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#16
Posted to uk.d-i-y,alt.sci.physics,uk.telecom.mobile
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Southern Electric say each mobile phone charger uses 100kWhours a DAY!
"John" wrote in message ... This might be of interest: http://www.osti.gov/bridge/servlets/...ive/795944.pdf Another good site: http://www.iea.org/textbase/nppdf/fr...thenight01.pdf |
#17
Posted to uk.d-i-y,alt.sci.physics,uk.telecom.mobile
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Southern Electric say each mobile phone charger uses 100kWhoursa DAY!
Dave R wrote:
I have one of those energy monitors from Maplin, my mobile phone chargers use nothing when not plugged into the phone. It is worth noting that many modern phone chargers are switched mode power supplies. Many of these will in effect turn off when there is no load. -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
#18
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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Southern Electric say each mobile phone charger uses 100kWhours a DAY!
"Jonathan" wrote in message
... Have a look - how can they get it so wrong by a magnitude of.....??? Clearly shome mistake. It might be interesting to know just how many million of these 'little black boxes' (wall warts) are plugged in 24/7 and how much power is used to keep them energised - even when the mobile is away being used. I have three little black boxes, but it is hardly worth worrying about when I'm running a 2 KW electric fire, an immersion heater, a washing machine and a tumble drier. Roger R |
#19
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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Southern Electric say each mobile phone charger uses 100kWhoursa DAY!
Roger R wrote:
"Jonathan" wrote in message ... Have a look - how can they get it so wrong by a magnitude of.....??? Clearly shome mistake. It might be interesting to know just how many million of these 'little black boxes' (wall warts) are plugged in 24/7 and how much power is used to keep them energised - even when the mobile is away being used. I have three little black boxes, but it is hardly worth worrying about when I'm running a 2 KW electric fire, an immersion heater, a washing machine and a tumble drier. Roger R The moment you are running the elctric fire, the wallwarts are zero carbon opportunity cost, since you are using electrical power to heat anyway. The same goes for full water kettles, inefficient incandescent lamps and the like. One can imagine that if we had a fully integrated nuclear electric power generation scenario, that use of electrical heating and wasteful electrical products would be positively beneficial, if it meant that we didn't need to use gas or oil to heat our homes. I can see it now "Government initiative to replace CFL lamps with 'combined heat and light' lamps" .. "wasting energy is green" says Greenpeace.."Rock star buys 500KW electric sports car" and so on.. |
#20
Posted to uk.d-i-y,alt.sci.physics,uk.telecom.mobile
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Southern Electric say each mobile phone charger uses 100kWhours a DAY!
"John Rumm" wrote in message ... Dave R wrote: I have one of those energy monitors from Maplin, my mobile phone chargers use nothing when not plugged into the phone. It is worth noting that many modern phone chargers are switched mode power supplies. Many of these will in effect turn off when there is no load. One test is whether it warms up at all when its not charging. |
#21
Posted to uk.d-i-y,alt.sci.physics,uk.telecom.mobile
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Southern Electric say each mobile phone charger uses 100kWhours a DAY!
"Jonathan" wrote in message ... Have a look - how can they get it so wrong by a magnitude of.....??? My chargers both say they use about 21mA max. Also, point 3 seems a little dubious too - AFAIK, the only things that use any significant power on standby are digiboxes. Surely the rest just take enough to keep the coil energised? My TV and video both use 4 watts on standby. http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c1...ic_charger.jpg They got a k in by mistake. Typical chargers will use about 100Whrs per day. |
#22
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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Southern Electric say each mobile phone charger uses 100kWhours a DAY!
On 29 Jan, 11:34, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Roger R wrote: "Jonathan" wrote in message ... Have a look - how can they get it so wrong by a magnitude of.....??? The moment you are running the elctric fire, the wallwarts are zero carbon opportunity cost, since you are using electrical power to heat anyway. The same goes for full water kettles, inefficient incandescent lamps and the like. One can imagine that if we had a fully integrated nuclear electric power generation scenario, that use of electrical heating and wasteful electrical products would be positively beneficial, if it meant that we didn't need to use gas or oil to heat our homes. I can see it now "Government initiative to replace CFL lamps with 'combined heat and light' lamps" .. "wasting energy is green" says Greenpeace.."Rock star buys 500KW electric sports car" and so on.. Energy from non-oil sources keeps creping down in cost. If this trend continues, one day it'll be so cheap that materials will be the more valued thing, not energy, and it cavity wall insulation might even one day become seen as a waste of good materials. But not in my lifetime. NT |
#23
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Southern Electric say each mobile phone charger uses 100kWhoursa DAY!
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#24
Posted to uk.d-i-y,alt.sci.physics,uk.telecom.mobile
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Southern Electric say each mobile phone charger uses 100kWhours a DAY!
In message , Roger Matthews
writes Sony say that my LCD 23" uses 0.7W on standby - that seems very low and makes you inclined to question all of the figures being bandied around by the Government! I'm so green I don't use a flushing loo but consider my TVs left on standby to provide background heating. -- dave @ stejonda |
#25
Posted to uk.d-i-y,alt.sci.physics,uk.telecom.mobile
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Southern Electric say each mobile phone charger uses 100kWhours a DAY!
"dave @ stejonda" wrote in message ... In message , Roger Matthews writes Sony say that my LCD 23" uses 0.7W on standby - that seems very low and makes you inclined to question all of the figures being bandied around by the Government! I'm so green I don't use a flushing loo but consider my TVs left on standby to provide background heating. -- dave @ stejonda Many manufacturers have been aspiring to the "1 Watt Initiative" for some years. Even my old 28" CRT only uses 0.8w on standby. The Green Campaigners are out of touch |
#26
Posted to uk.d-i-y,alt.sci.physics,uk.telecom.mobile
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Southern Electric say each mobile phone charger uses 100kWhoursa DAY!
John wrote:
"dave @ stejonda" wrote in message ... In message , Roger Matthews writes Sony say that my LCD 23" uses 0.7W on standby - that seems very low and makes you inclined to question all of the figures being bandied around by the Government! I'm so green I don't use a flushing loo but consider my TVs left on standby to provide background heating. -- dave @ stejonda Many manufacturers have been aspiring to the "1 Watt Initiative" for some years. Even my old 28" CRT only uses 0.8w on standby. The Green Campaigners are out of touch 0.8w*24hr/day*300,000,000 TV's = 5,760,000,000kw-hr/day in tv's only. Now add in cell phone chargers, computers, and stereos. All that energy wasted so we save 1sec when we want to get our daily dose of mind-numbing drivel. |
#27
Posted to alt.sci.physics,uk.telecom.mobile,uk.d-i-y
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Southern Electric say each mobile phone charger uses 100kWhours a DAY!
On Wed, 14 Feb 2007 16:44:25 UTC, lyttlec wrote:
John wrote: "dave @ stejonda" wrote in message ... In message , Roger Matthews writes Sony say that my LCD 23" uses 0.7W on standby - that seems very low and makes you inclined to question all of the figures being bandied around by the Government! I'm so green I don't use a flushing loo but consider my TVs left on standby to provide background heating. -- dave @ stejonda Many manufacturers have been aspiring to the "1 Watt Initiative" for some years. Even my old 28" CRT only uses 0.8w on standby. The Green Campaigners are out of touch 0.8w*24hr/day*300,000,000 TV's = 5,760,000,000kw-hr/day in tv's only. Now add in cell phone chargers, computers, and stereos. All that energy wasted so we save 1sec when we want to get our daily dose of mind-numbing drivel. You're another one who likes to distort the truth, then? You might make it a bit more convincing by at least trying to do the calculation correctly. 0.8w*24hr/day = 19.2 watt/hours per day for one TV. Multiply that by 300,000,000 (where did you get the 5 TVs for every man, woman and child in the country from?, but we'll leave that one) and you get 5,760,000 kwH per day. So, you're three orders of magnitude out (a factor of 1000, in other words). That's using a false assumption of 5 TVs each for everyone in the UK; perhaps you meant some bigger area, but who knows? you conveniently left that out. Add in the fact that for a lot of that 24 hours the TV would be on anyway. Then also the fact that many people turn the TV off when asleep or not at home. Greenwash. And highly unconvincing greenwash. -- The information contained in this post is copyright the poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by http://www.diybanter.com |
#28
Posted to alt.sci.physics,uk.telecom.mobile,uk.d-i-y
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Southern Electric say each mobile phone charger uses 100kWhours a DAY!
"Bob Eager" wrote in message ... On Wed, 14 Feb 2007 16:44:25 UTC, lyttlec wrote: John wrote: "dave @ stejonda" wrote in message ... In message , Roger Matthews writes Sony say that my LCD 23" uses 0.7W on standby - that seems very low and makes you inclined to question all of the figures being bandied around by the Government! I'm so green I don't use a flushing loo but consider my TVs left on standby to provide background heating. -- dave @ stejonda Many manufacturers have been aspiring to the "1 Watt Initiative" for some years. Even my old 28" CRT only uses 0.8w on standby. The Green Campaigners are out of touch 0.8w*24hr/day*300,000,000 TV's = 5,760,000,000kw-hr/day in tv's only. Now add in cell phone chargers, computers, and stereos. All that energy wasted so we save 1sec when we want to get our daily dose of mind-numbing drivel. You're another one who likes to distort the truth, then? You might make it a bit more convincing by at least trying to do the calculation correctly. 0.8w*24hr/day = 19.2 watt/hours per day for one TV. Multiply that by 300,000,000 (where did you get the 5 TVs for every man, woman and child in the country from?, but we'll leave that one) and you get 5,760,000 kwH per day. So, you're three orders of magnitude out (a factor of 1000, in other words). That's using a false assumption of 5 TVs each for everyone in the UK; perhaps you meant some bigger area, but who knows? you conveniently left that out. Add in the fact that for a lot of that 24 hours the TV would be on anyway. Then also the fact that many people turn the TV off when asleep or not at home. Greenwash. And highly unconvincing greenwash. -- The information contained in this post is copyright the poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by http://www.diybanter.com Well done Bob. Where I live the council are proposing Wind Turbines and local businesses are "lined up" to take the Green Electricity". What is conveniently forgotten is the fact that power Stations need to be kept spinning for when the wind drops - unless the businesses are content with power only on good days. Incidentally, most people I know only uses standby for quite short periods during the evening. The sets get powered down at bed time and left off until the late afternoon viewing period. |
#29
Posted to alt.sci.physics,uk.telecom.mobile,uk.d-i-y
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Southern Electric say each mobile phone charger uses 100kWhoursa DAY!
Bob Eager wrote:
On Wed, 14 Feb 2007 16:44:25 UTC, lyttlec wrote: John wrote: "dave @ stejonda" wrote in message ... In message , Roger Matthews writes Sony say that my LCD 23" uses 0.7W on standby - that seems very low and makes you inclined to question all of the figures being bandied around by the Government! I'm so green I don't use a flushing loo but consider my TVs left on standby to provide background heating. -- dave @ stejonda Many manufacturers have been aspiring to the "1 Watt Initiative" for some years. Even my old 28" CRT only uses 0.8w on standby. The Green Campaigners are out of touch 0.8w*24hr/day*300,000,000 TV's = 5,760,000,000kw-hr/day in tv's only. Now add in cell phone chargers, computers, and stereos. All that energy wasted so we save 1sec when we want to get our daily dose of mind-numbing drivel. You're another one who likes to distort the truth, then? You might make it a bit more convincing by at least trying to do the calculation correctly. 0.8w*24hr/day = 19.2 watt/hours per day for one TV. Multiply that by 300,000,000 (where did you get the 5 TVs for every man, woman and child in the country from?, but we'll leave that one) and you get 5,760,000 kwH per day. So, you're three orders of magnitude out (a factor of 1000, in other words). That's using a false assumption of 5 TVs each for everyone in the UK; perhaps you meant some bigger area, but who knows? you conveniently left that out. Add in the fact that for a lot of that 24 hours the TV would be on anyway. Then also the fact that many people turn the TV off when asleep or not at home. Greenwash. And highly unconvincing greenwash. Ok, I did type kw-hr when I did mean w-hr. my bad. OTOH, I should have used 600,000,000 for the number of TVs. The current estimate for the US population is just over 300,000,000 and we have closer to tvs per person. I know several families of three that have one in each bedroom, one in the kitchen, one in the living room, one in the den. Even if no one ever watches the one in the guest room, it is still using 0.8W. So the correct number is 11,520,000 watt-hours/day. That translates to about 3,417,600 pounds(1709tons) of coal/year, 24,000 pounds of SO2, 1600 tons of CO2 (coal is mostly carbon). Have you ever noticed that during a blackout, the power sort of fade out rather than goes off all at once? Thats because of all the wallwarts and tv sets discharging into the grid. |
#30
Posted to uk.telecom.mobile,uk.d-i-y,alt.sci.physics
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Southern Electric say each mobile phone charger uses 100kWhours a DAY!
On Thu, 15 Feb 2007 00:03:41 UTC, lyttlec wrote:
0.8w*24hr/day*300,000,000 TV's = 5,760,000,000kw-hr/day in tv's only. Now add in cell phone chargers, computers, and stereos. All that energy wasted so we save 1sec when we want to get our daily dose of mind-numbing drivel. You're another one who likes to distort the truth, then? You might make it a bit more convincing by at least trying to do the calculation correctly. 0.8w*24hr/day = 19.2 watt/hours per day for one TV. Multiply that by 300,000,000 (where did you get the 5 TVs for every man, woman and child in the country from?, but we'll leave that one) and you get 5,760,000 kwH per day. So, you're three orders of magnitude out (a factor of 1000, in other words). That's using a false assumption of 5 TVs each for everyone in the UK; perhaps you meant some bigger area, but who knows? you conveniently left that out. Add in the fact that for a lot of that 24 hours the TV would be on anyway. Then also the fact that many people turn the TV off when asleep or not at home. Greenwash. And highly unconvincing greenwash. Ok, I did type kw-hr when I did mean w-hr. my bad. All very well, but it makes a hell of a difference. "Sorry, guv, made a mistake. But it's really bad anyway". OTOH, I should have used 600,000,000 for the number of TVs. The current estimate for the US population is just over 300,000,000 and we have closer to tvs per person. So, you're in the USA; I suspected as much. But try to make it clear; this is a UK newsgroup after all. Two TVs for every man, woman, child and baby? Well, we always knew the Yanks were wasteful. And as for pollution: can we say "Bush - Kyoto"? I know several families of three that have one in each bedroom, one in the kitchen, one in the living room, one in the den. Even if no one ever watches the one in the guest room, it is still using 0.8W. If it's switched on at all. My experience is that yes, TVs get left on standby. But not 24/7. At least not in the UK. Typical day; TV is switched on when we get up. It goes off when I leave for work (I'm last out). Goes on when the kids come in. On and off during the evening, possibly on standby sometimes. Total time on standby probably less than an hour or two each day. You can't count the time when it's actually being watched, unless you are bent on distorting the figures. So the correct number is 11,520,000 watt-hours/day. No; 11,520,000 kWh/day (11,520 MWh/day). Do try to keep up. Or approximately 1000MWh per day, in reality (dividing by 12 since it's really about 2 hours/day on average; some will be more, some less). Actually, that's probably a high estimate; I can't see very many people leaving (say) the guest room TV on when there is no guest. And are there *really* that many - two for everyone? That's for the USA. For the UK (this is a UK newsgroup) it's about a fifth of that. So, 200MWh per day. Worst case - I doubt we have as many as the USA. Be generous and say half. So a (probably high) figure is 100MWh per day. Our last electricity bill shows we used 30 kWh/day; we might use a bit more than most, but let's say on average it's a third of that. So, 10,000 homes worth of electricity. Out of probably about 20 million, that's not a lot. Even less if you count industry, which is very power hungry. So, just scare mongering figures really. That translates to about 3,417,600 pounds(1709tons) of coal/year, 24,000 pounds of SO2, 1600 tons of CO2 (coal is mostly carbon). Actually, it's a damn sight more CO2 than that since there isn't a one to one relation. Have you ever noticed that during a blackout, the power sort of fade out rather than goes off all at once? Thats because of all the wallwarts and tv sets discharging into the grid. I'd like to hear technical justification for that. I've not seen it, and I guess it depends on what caused the blackout anyway. -- The information contained in this post is copyright the poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by http://www.diybanter.com |
#31
Posted to alt.sci.physics,uk.telecom.mobile,uk.d-i-y
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Southern Electric say each mobile phone charger uses 100kWhours a DAY!
On 14 Feb 2007 18:03:57 GMT someone who may be "Bob Eager"
wrote this:- Add in the fact that for a lot of that 24 hours the TV would be on anyway. Rather depends on the household. I suspect that many are only watched for a few hours a day, as most people have better things to do with their time. Then also the fact that many people turn the TV off when asleep or not at home. An increasing number probably do. However, this is only since campaigns against leaving things on standby started. However, it is probably true that houses where televisions are watched a lot are also the ones where they are left on standby when not on. -- David Hansen, Edinburgh I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54 |
#32
Posted to uk.telecom.mobile,uk.d-i-y,alt.sci.physics
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Southern Electric say each mobile phone charger uses 100kWhours a DAY!
On Thu, 15 Feb 2007 07:43:59 UTC, David Hansen
wrote: Then also the fact that many people turn the TV off when asleep or not at home. An increasing number probably do. However, this is only since campaigns against leaving things on standby started. There have been campaigns for a long time now, mainly from the fire service. -- The information contained in this post is copyright the poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by http://www.diybanter.com |
#33
Posted to uk.telecom.mobile,uk.d-i-y,alt.sci.physics
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Southern Electric say each mobile phone charger uses 100kWhoursa DAY!
Bob Eager wrote:
On Thu, 15 Feb 2007 00:03:41 UTC, lyttlec wrote: 0.8w*24hr/day*300,000,000 TV's = 5,760,000,000kw-hr/day in tv's only. Now add in cell phone chargers, computers, and stereos. All that energy wasted so we save 1sec when we want to get our daily dose of mind-numbing drivel. You're another one who likes to distort the truth, then? You might make it a bit more convincing by at least trying to do the calculation correctly. 0.8w*24hr/day = 19.2 watt/hours per day for one TV. Multiply that by 300,000,000 (where did you get the 5 TVs for every man, woman and child in the country from?, but we'll leave that one) and you get 5,760,000 kwH per day. So, you're three orders of magnitude out (a factor of 1000, in other words). That's using a false assumption of 5 TVs each for everyone in the UK; perhaps you meant some bigger area, but who knows? you conveniently left that out. Add in the fact that for a lot of that 24 hours the TV would be on anyway. Then also the fact that many people turn the TV off when asleep or not at home. Greenwash. And highly unconvincing greenwash. Ok, I did type kw-hr when I did mean w-hr. my bad. All very well, but it makes a hell of a difference. "Sorry, guv, made a mistake. But it's really bad anyway". OTOH, I should have used 600,000,000 for the number of TVs. The current estimate for the US population is just over 300,000,000 and we have closer to tvs per person. So, you're in the USA; I suspected as much. But try to make it clear; this is a UK newsgroup after all. I assume you still get billed for on-peak vs. off-peak power? I once built a wind power system for a friend of mine in the UK. Cut his peak power usage charges in half. In the US, I built one for a dairy farm that cut his peak-power by 10%, and his total bill by over 80%. His total monthly rate was determined by a 20minute peak. Some simple changes to his local wiring ( so he couldn't start the welder in his shop while the silage augers were running) and adding a wind power system to pump and pre-heat water was all it took. Two TVs for every man, woman, child and baby? Well, we always knew the Yanks were wasteful. The Brits isn't any better. There are just fewer of them. To your credit, power rates there do encourage a bit more conservation. And as for pollution: can we say "Bush - Kyoto"? Both suck. Ignore anything any government says. The real solution is simple : turn it off, and ask yourself if you ever need to turn it on again. I know several families of three that have one in each bedroom, one in the kitchen, one in the living room, one in the den. Even if no one ever watches the one in the guest room, it is still using 0.8W. If it's switched on at all. My experience is that yes, TVs get left on standby. But not 24/7. At least not in the UK. Typical day; TV is switched on when we get up. It goes off when I leave for work (I'm last out). Goes on when the kids come in. On and off during the evening, possibly on standby sometimes. Total time on standby probably less than an hour or two each day. You can't count the time when it's actually being watched, unless you are bent on distorting the figures. As long as it is plugged into the wall, it is on standby. The on-off switch no longer turn them off. On one Phillips TV series I worked on, the on-off switch simply blanked the video and sound. Every thing else was powered up. Power use in 'on" and "off" was almost exactly the same. So the correct number is 11,520,000 watt-hours/day. No; 11,520,000 kWh/day (11,520 MWh/day). Do try to keep up. Or approximately 1000MWh per day, in reality (dividing by 12 since it's really about 2 hours/day on average; some will be more, some less). Actually, that's probably a high estimate; I can't see very many people leaving (say) the guest room TV on when there is no guest. And are there *really* that many - two for everyone? Yes, two for everyone. Counting the ones at home, in the bars (the coffee shop where I am now has two running), airports, the displays running in the stores, etc., etc. That's for the USA. For the UK (this is a UK newsgroup) it's about a fifth of that. So, 200MWh per day. Worst case - I doubt we have as many as the USA. Be generous and say half. So a (probably high) figure is 100MWh per day. 100MWh/day is still a sizable power plant. Our last electricity bill shows we used 30 kWh/day; we might use a bit more than most, but let's say on average it's a third of that. So, 10,000 homes worth of electricity. Out of probably about 20 million, that's not a lot. Even less if you count industry, which is very power hungry. So it's ok to be wasteful because someone else is worse? You can throw your Starbucks cup on the street because it's only one cup? So, just scare mongering figures really. Not scare mongering, just shaming you. I spend one day a week picking up trash out of the nice creek that crosses my farm. I pick up over hundred pounds per month of plastic soda bottles, foam cups, plastic bags from the grocer. I carry cloth bags to the grocer, which confuses the clerks no end. Even though I avoid plastic as much as possible ( only buying beer in aluminum cans or re-usable kegs), I still calculated that I use the equivalent of one barrel of oil per year in plastic. That translate to almost a million barrels per day here. Based on my last visit to the UK (just before 9/11), you aren't all that much better there. That translates to about 3,417,600 pounds(1709tons) of coal/year, 24,000 pounds of SO2, 1600 tons of CO2 (coal is mostly carbon). Actually, it's a damn sight more CO2 than that since there isn't a one to one relation. Correct, but you get the picture. Carbon + O2 weighs more than the coal (carbon + ash + sulfur +...) Have you ever noticed that during a blackout, the power sort of fade out rather than goes off all at once? Thats because of all the wallwarts and tv sets discharging into the grid. I'd like to hear technical justification for that. I've not seen it, and I guess it depends on what caused the blackout anyway. sure. In the past the biggest contributor was electric clocks which change from motors to generators when the grid is lost. Now it is energy stored in power supplies. Wall warts have transformers that store energy that gets dumped back into the grid when grid power is lost. Anything with a ps does the same. The per-unit energy is less now that we use switching ps rather than the older inductor (transformer) based designs, but we have lots more units. Look up inductors and capicators in an elementary circuit analysis text. One exercise will probably be to build an r-l-c circuit and measure the voltage across the elements when power is connected and disconnected. Another thing to try is to start up an AC motor and monitor the voltage across the power terminals when the power is disconnected. |
#34
Posted to uk.d-i-y,alt.sci.physics,uk.telecom.mobile
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Southern Electric say each mobile phone charger uses 100kWhours a DAY!
On Thu, 15 Feb 2007 15:47:20 UTC, lyttlec wrote:
I assume you still get billed for on-peak vs. off-peak power? Most people aren't. Others may clarify. As long as it is plugged into the wall, it is on standby. The on-off switch no longer turn them off. You're generalising. I have a Philips TV with a fully mecahnical on/off switch. Two years old. Off means off. I've measured it. -- The information contained in this post is copyright the poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by http://www.diybanter.com |
#35
Posted to uk.d-i-y,alt.sci.physics,uk.telecom.mobile
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Southern Electric say each mobile phone charger uses 100kWhours a DAY!
In article ,
"John" writes: Many manufacturers have been aspiring to the "1 Watt Initiative" for some years. Even my old 28" CRT only uses 0.8w on standby. Ancient Sony 25" (4:3) CRT here, which when run through a plugin power meter, registers absolutely flat 0 on standby. Not a flicker. I guess that means 0.something, but considering the newer Panny 29"WS flickers from 0W to 1W on standby with the same meter, it must be 0.somethingsmall. The Green Campaigners are out of touch Duh, yeah. -- SAm. |
#36
Posted to uk.d-i-y,alt.sci.physics,uk.telecom.mobile
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Southern Electric say each mobile phone charger uses 100kWhoursa DAY!
Sam Nelson wrote:
In article , "John" writes: Many manufacturers have been aspiring to the "1 Watt Initiative" for some years. Even my old 28" CRT only uses 0.8w on standby. Ancient Sony 25" (4:3) CRT here, which when run through a plugin power meter, registers absolutely flat 0 on standby. Not a flicker. I guess that means 0.something, but considering the newer Panny 29"WS flickers from 0W to 1W on standby with the same meter, it must be 0.somethingsmall. That probably only means that your meter has a resolution of 1W, so the Sony uses 0.5W on standby, and the Panny something close to 0.5W. Check the power switches. If the switch has a solid click and you can't then turn on the set with the remote, then off means off. If you can turn the set on using the remote, it still draws power when off. If you see or hear a spark when you unplug the set while "off", then it is still drawing power when "off." The Green Campaigners are out of touch Duh, yeah. |
#37
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Southern Electric say each mobile phone charger uses 100kWhours a DAY!
On Sun, 28 Jan 2007 12:17:59 -0000, "Jonathan"
wrote: Have a look - how can they get it so wrong by a magnitude of.....??? Because they are cretins. You can't get that much power out of a 13A socket in a day: it is more than 13 amps. -- Iain the out-of-date hairydog guide to mobile phones http://www.hairydog.co.uk/cell1.html Browse now while stocks last! |
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