In message , Andy Hall
writes
On Wed, 19 Jul 2006 08:10:32 +0100, June Hughes wrote
(in article ):

In message , Andy Hall
writes

It is rather sad that there are still people around with the misconception
that it is. Clearly the NHS marketing machine has done a good job.


Instead of wasting your time blathering about it here, why not do
something positive? Get off your backside and on your bike and start
doing something about it instead of giving earache to those who are
unable to alter things.


Nobody requires you to read the articles that I write.

As I already explained to you, this is something that I would take on if
there were the public will to throw the whole thing away and start again.

Until the mentality moves away from using band Aids to cure cancer, there is
no point in spending the effort on it.

Is that what they are doing? How quaint. Can you prove it? If you
stop saying things like that, people may start to take notice.
However, if people reading this are able and willing to think outside the
box, they may wish to write to their MP.



--
June Hughes

In message , Andy Hall
writes
On Wed, 19 Jul 2006 08:13:00 +0100, June Hughes wrote
(in article ):

In message , Andy Hall
writes
On Tue, 18 Jul 2006 17:32:07 +0100, Mary Fisher wrote
(in article ):


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 18 Jul 2006 09:01:32 +0100, The Reid wrote
(in article ):

Following up to Andy Hall

I am quite sure that I could do a much better job than the government
does.

It wouldn't be that difficult.....

so you think.


All that is required is a simple administration to organise and distribute
funding in the form of vouchers for patients to spend on healthcare with a
provider of their choice.

Why don't you organise it, Andy? You could do that in the morning and give
medical advice and dental treatment in the afternoon.





That would take Superman. I'd be happy with doing the mass sackings of
civil servants. - I'd happily spend several days doing that, from the top
down.


A few days? I think a lot more than that is required.


You haven't seen me firing people.....


Oh! So you fire people do you? Humph! You seem to have an awful lot
of time to spend spouting on Usenet. Put your money where your mouth is
and get out there with your campaign instead of posting here.
--
June Hughes

In message , Andy Hall
writes
On Wed, 19 Jul 2006 08:22:20 +0100, June Hughes wrote
(in article ):

In message , Andy Hall
writes

Of course, until people in the UK realise that they are being suckered by
the
4th of the three big lies, it won't change.


Get yourself a couple of sandwich boards and parade up and down Oxford
Street spreading the word. That may achieve something. Of course, it
is easier just to sit on your backside at your computer and spout on
Usenet but you could be far more effective than that, couldn't you?


That's the old technology way of doing things....

Actually, I seldom sit on my backside in front of my computer. Normally it
is sitting on my knees and I am travelling around.


Ah! So you are a travelling salesman, are you? I would have thought
you would have something better to do with your time on the train,
plane, bus or whatever you travel on.
--
June Hughes

"The Reid" wrote in message
...
Following up to June Hughes

Instead of wasting your time blathering about it here, why not do
something positive? Get off your backside and on your bike and start
doing something about it instead of giving earache to those who are
unable to alter things.

you have a point, its too hot for political cobblers, having
spent the morning shoveling muck in the heat and with the
prospect of chiseling up floor tiles pm lets discuss something
nice.........thinks... ............did I mention the barmaid at
the "Pigs Nose" by any chance?

You're not STILL banging on about her?

If things don't change they'll stay as they are :-)

Mary

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...

Until the mentality moves away from using band Aids to cure cancer, there
is
no point in spending the effort on it.

It's a strange mentality which thinks there's a cure for cancer.

My cancer was treated successfully (no-one can claim a cure with authority
and a guarantee), several years ago. I've survived. A Band-Aid never went
anywhere near me.

I doubt that a Band-Aid will go anywhere near Spouse during his cancer
treatment.

You've shown that there's something else you don't know about.

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...

- Herceptin for cancer patients

You've been reading the papers again.

Herceptin is a very specific drug which is used on certain patients who
might benefit in certain types of cancer. It's not a general cancer drug.
It's not even a general breast cancer drug.

"Clive George" wrote in message
...
"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...

It isn't exception cases.

I'll give you four simple examples.
..
- Blood glucose test strips for diabetics.
..
There are clinical justifications for all of these things and lack of
prompt
treatment and use can be life threatening.

However, they are not freely and prompt;y available through the NHS.
Either
there are long delays or they are not available at all.

Rubbish.

IME freely and promptly available. I've never had a problem getting them -
and I test quite a lot.

Type 2s may have to pay a prescription charge, and for their other meds.
Annual prepayment would seem to cover that.

Most Type 2s are old enough to have zero cost for prescriptions.

Type 1 patients don't pay for treatments at any age - well, they don't in
our family and I doubt that we're exceptional.

"Mary Fisher" wrote in message
t...

"Clive George" wrote in message
...

Type 2s may have to pay a prescription charge, and for their other meds.
Annual prepayment would seem to cover that.

Most Type 2s are old enough to have zero cost for prescriptions.

Type 2s don't pay anyway, no diabetic does in the UK...

--
William Black

I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach
Time for tea.

The message
from "Mary Fisher" contains these words:

Herceptin is a very specific drug which is used on certain patients who
might benefit in certain types of cancer. It's not a general cancer drug.
It's not even a general breast cancer drug.

Which is why that fuss about it a few months ago was so stupid. Many of
those screaming for it were not in the group for which it is indicated.

--
Skipweasel
Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.

Following up to Mary Fisher

did I mention the barmaid at
the "Pigs Nose" by any chance?

You're not STILL banging on about her?

please don't mention banging, with my age and the heat.
--
Mike Reid
Walk-eat-photos UK "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" -- you can email us@ this site
Walk-eat-photos Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" -- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap

Following up to Mary Fisher

My cancer was treated successfully (no-one can claim a cure with authority
and a guarantee), several years ago. I've survived. A Band-Aid never went
anywhere near me.

I doubt that a Band-Aid will go anywhere near Spouse during his cancer
treatment.

best wishes to him, Mary.
--
Mike Reid
Walk-eat-photos UK "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" -- you can email us@ this site
Walk-eat-photos Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" -- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap

"William Black" wrote in message
...

"Mary Fisher" wrote in message
t...

"Clive George" wrote in message
...

Type 2s may have to pay a prescription charge, and for their other
meds.
Annual prepayment would seem to cover that.

Most Type 2s are old enough to have zero cost for prescriptions.

Type 2s don't pay anyway, no diabetic does in the UK...

So, Andy, about those blood glucose testing strips then?

cheers,
clive

In message , The Reid
writes
Following up to Mary Fisher

did I mention the barmaid at
the "Pigs Nose" by any chance?

You're not STILL banging on about her?

please don't mention banging, with my age and the heat.
G
--
June Hughes

In message , The Reid
writes
Following up to Mary Fisher

My cancer was treated successfully (no-one can claim a cure with authority
and a guarantee), several years ago. I've survived. A Band-Aid never went
anywhere near me.

I doubt that a Band-Aid will go anywhere near Spouse during his cancer
treatment.

best wishes to him, Mary.

Same from me Mary.
--
June Hughes

"Owain" wrote in message
...
Mary Fisher wrote:
you would have told me how to solder up my cracked heat
exchanger, no doubt.
car body filler innit
Our car body is a heat exchanger at the moment. It exchanges its heat to
us.
We're just not using it, if we can't walk or go on the scooter we do
without.

Me similarly, but I don't have a scooter and am avoiding walking in the
sun.

The coolth of Tesco chiller cabinets isn't worth the heating effect of
going there in the first place.

I'm not shopping. If I can't feed us from what's in store I need boiling in
oil. I don't walk in the sun either, a big hat and shirt sleeves are pretty
effective sun shades.

Mary

Owain

"The Reid" wrote in message
...
Following up to Mary Fisher

did I mention the barmaid at
the "Pigs Nose" by any chance?

You're not STILL banging on about her?

please don't mention banging, with my age and the heat.

I think I'm older than you but in a north facing room with all doors and
windows open it's bearable.

:-)

Mary

"The Reid" wrote in message
...
Following up to Mary Fisher

My cancer was treated successfully (no-one can claim a cure with authority
and a guarantee), several years ago. I've survived. A Band-Aid never went
anywhere near me.

I doubt that a Band-Aid will go anywhere near Spouse during his cancer
treatment.

best wishes to him, Mary.

Thanks, we have full confidence in the good old NHS :-)

Mary

"June Hughes" wrote in message
...
In message , The Reid

best wishes to him, Mary.

Same from me Mary.

Aw - I wasn't fishing for sympathy :-)

But it's nice to know.

Mary
--
June Hughes

"Guy King" wrote in message
...
The message
from "Mary Fisher" contains these words:

Herceptin is a very specific drug which is used on certain patients who
might benefit in certain types of cancer. It's not a general cancer drug.
It's not even a general breast cancer drug.

Which is why that fuss about it a few months ago was so stupid. Many of
those screaming for it were not in the group for which it is indicated.

Indeed. Perhaps they'd consulted YKW.

Mary

"Mary Fisher" wrote in message
t...

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...

Until the mentality moves away from using band Aids to cure cancer, there
is
no point in spending the effort on it.

It's a strange mentality which thinks there's a cure for cancer.

My cancer was treated successfully (no-one can claim a cure with authority
and a guarantee), several years ago. I've survived. A Band-Aid never went
anywhere near me.

I doubt that a Band-Aid will go anywhere near Spouse during his cancer
treatment.

Sorry to hear that, Mary. It must be a worrying time. I hope things go
well.
Graham

Following up to Owain

Was that the one who had photographs of breasts hung up on the walls
with a wonderbra?

didnt see any!
--
Mike Reid
Walk-eat-photos UK "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" -- you can email us@ this site
Walk-eat-photos Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" -- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap

On Wed, 19 Jul 2006 09:31:32 +0100, Mary Fisher wrote
(in article ):


"June Hughes" wrote in message
...
In message , Andy Hall
writes

Of course, until people in the UK realise that they are being suckered by
the
4th of the three big lies, it won't change.


Get yourself a couple of sandwich boards and parade up and down Oxford
Street spreading the word. That may achieve something. Of course, it is
easier just to sit on your backside at your computer and spout on Usenet
but you could be far more effective than that, couldn't you?
--
June Hughes


Oh, June, that's not fair! I don't think you realise that this chap isn't
lazing about at home at his pc, he's jetting all round the world with his
laptop, being very busy. Probably solving other, even worse, problems!


It would be hard to find one worse than the NHS, Mary.

In one sense you are right though. I do spend a lot of time solving
difficult problems and have done for many years. Flying around is hardly an
exciting prospect any longer when one is visiting four cities in different
countries in a week, out of the airport, visit the customer and back to the
airport - i.e. there is no excitement in the travel aspect.

However, in working with customers for several decades, (and others say
successfully), I have learnt and use several fundamental principles:

- Always try to do what you say you are going to do, and be prepared to move
heaven and earth if necessary to achieve that.

- If that is prevented by circumstances that were impossible to foresee, make
sure that the customer knows as far ahead of time as possible so that
alternative arrangements can be made. Then make sure that the customer is
overcompensated for the effects.

- Always tell customers the truth, even if it may not be convenient at the
time. It pays back with dividends.

- Involve and encourage customers to participate in solving issues. It
makes things run more smoothly and quickly and in the future they can help
themselves.

- Over achieve on promises and reasonable expectations. When this is done,
the unreasonable ones seldom happen.

- Deliver on the customer's expectation of or the agreed timescales.

- Always remember that the customer is paying for what he is getting and is
entitled to expect to receive that.


The result of doing these things is success for both the supplying
organisation and the customer.

It isn't difficult, and my experience is of having customers that I have
worked with through multiple career/company changes (theirs and mine) and
achieving a level of trust that they can safely and effectively work with me.

Of course this relates to the commercial world, but almost all the principles
can be applied to any situation.

It does mean that when I am a customer, I expect the same standards from
organisations from which I buy goods and services. This does not mean that I
am looking for something for nothing or for something for which I am not
willing to pay.

I select a supplier based on my own research and on what he says he will do.
However, I do expect that he will deliver on his promises both in terms of
content and in the agreed timescale. That has been part of selection
criteria.

If he over-delivers that's nice but I don't expect it.

More often than not it all works out and what was agreed happens when it is
supposed to happen.

Occasionally there is a problem and the supplier takes the trouble to tell me
and a fix is agreed. I'm usually perfectly happy with that because if a
supplier can demonstrate to me that he can fix a problem if it occurs it
gives me confidence that he will be able to do that in the future and that my
business is well placed.

However, if something goes wrong and the supplier is either apathetic or
worse still lies to me or tries to evade responsibility, I think that it's
entirely reasonable to expect and insist that they resolve the issue or
refund my money with compensation. Obviously one has to include a factor
of reasonableness in terms of what can be expected for the price paid -
however, I always factor those issues into the original decision.

All of this relates to normal commercial and consumer transactions, which
although important in themselves, are not very significant in the global
scheme of things and certainly not in comparison with healthcare, which is
the most important purchase that people make - however they do it.


Now.... when I map these principles and philosophies to the way that the NHS
operates and my experiences of it, to say that I am a disappointed customer
would be a gross understatement.

I think that it would be reasonable to expect that it should deliver on most
if not all of the principles of customer service that I outlined above. I
have difficulty in finding a single one where it does to any acceptable
degree if at all.

I have the ability to fund my own healthcare either through insurance or if
necessary out of pocket, so one might ask why I care about it.
I could even justifiably complain that I shouldn't need to do this out of
already taxed income.
Moreover, I could even argue, and on occasions have done, that I should be
able to opt myself out of the state system.

However, I would not go so far as to say that people should fend totally for
themselves if they are unable to do so. That is not correct and reasonable
in a civilised first world country. I would prefer to pay less in taxes
but consider it reasonable to contribute towards the healthcare of those
genuinely unable to do so for themselves whether it be partially or
completely.

I therefore consider myself a customer of the government in terms of its
responsibility to fund healthcare for those unable to do so for themselves -
I am paying them to do a job, even though it may largely be for the benefit
of others.

Successive governments, for half a century have manifestly failed to live up
to their responsibilities in this area through the medium of the NHS. If
it were possible to fix it, one would think that that would have been done by
now. We have seen the effect in the British car industry of what happens
when one attempts to maintain the untenable.

If the NHS was actually ever going to work, it would have done so by now.
Instead it lives by growing ever larger, increased wastage, worsening
standards and spending money on marketing to try to convince its customers
that it's doing a good job.

I am angered and at the same time saddened by the whole thing because
healthcare does not have to operate in this way, and it is not necessary
either to move to a non-state-funded environment.

I would like to see my money being spent properly and see no prospect of that
happening all the time that the state remains involved in the delivery of
healthcare.

All of this leads me to the inevitable and much considered conclusion, that
the only way forward is to close the charade that the NHS has become.

On Wed, 19 Jul 2006 14:00:15 +0100, June Hughes wrote
(in article ):

In message , Andy Hall
writes
On Wed, 19 Jul 2006 08:12:18 +0100, June Hughes wrote
(in article ):


Why not just get on and do something about it if you feel so strongly,
instead of winding up everyone here? Perhaps then, we will end up with
a better NHS and you will be a hero of the people.


If I were to do it, we wouldn't have an NHS. Unfortunately, contrary to
their own best interests, most people seem wedded to the idea that this is
the only way to deliver healthcare in a civilised society and are willing to
accept third rate service because they think it's free.

That is a load of old bull****, as I suspect you know.

How would you describe it? Do you find what they offer 100% acceptable?

On Wed, 19 Jul 2006 15:22:21 +0100, Mary Fisher wrote
(in article ):


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...

Until the mentality moves away from using band Aids to cure cancer, there
is
no point in spending the effort on it.

It's a strange mentality which thinks there's a cure for cancer.

My cancer was treated successfully (no-one can claim a cure with authority
and a guarantee), several years ago. I've survived. A Band-Aid never went
anywhere near me.

I doubt that a Band-Aid will go anywhere near Spouse during his cancer
treatment.

You've shown that there's something else you don't know about.



Mary, you know full well that the statement was a figurative one to emphasise
a point, which is simply that there is no point in tinkering around at the
edges of a major issue which cannot be addressed by the methods being
employed.

On Wed, 19 Jul 2006 14:36:07 +0100, The Reid wrote
(in article ):

Following up to Andy Hall

It isn't exception cases.

I'll give you four simple examples.

of exceptional cases.


Are you stupid or just pretending?

All of the examples listed relate to major, life threatening ailments
affecting very large numbers of patients.

On Wed, 19 Jul 2006 14:51:24 +0100, Clive George wrote
(in article ):

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...

It isn't exception cases.

I'll give you four simple examples.
..
- Blood glucose test strips for diabetics.
..
There are clinical justifications for all of these things and lack of
prompt
treatment and use can be life threatening.

However, they are not freely and prompt;y available through the NHS.
Either
there are long delays or they are not available at all. Either way the
patient pays if they don't have private insurance or goes without.

IME freely and promptly available. I've never had a problem getting them -
and I test quite a lot.

You are fortunate. The experience of others is not the same. I have seen
both rationing and refusal.


Type 2s may have to pay a prescription charge, and for their other meds.
Annual prepayment would seem to cover that.

The service is supposed to be free at the point of delivery.....

On Wed, 19 Jul 2006 15:26:04 +0100, Mary Fisher wrote
(in article ):


"Clive George" wrote in message
...
"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...

It isn't exception cases.

I'll give you four simple examples.
..
- Blood glucose test strips for diabetics.
..
There are clinical justifications for all of these things and lack of
prompt
treatment and use can be life threatening.

However, they are not freely and prompt;y available through the NHS.
Either
there are long delays or they are not available at all.

Rubbish.

The service certainly is.

I can provide you with documented examples for each of the cases that I
mentioned.



IME freely and promptly available. I've never had a problem getting them -
and I test quite a lot.

Type 2s may have to pay a prescription charge, and for their other meds.
Annual prepayment would seem to cover that.

Most Type 2s are old enough to have zero cost for prescriptions.

Wrong, and this is not the issue anyway






Type 1 patients don't pay for treatments at any age - well, they don't in
our family and I doubt that we're exceptional.

On Wed, 19 Jul 2006 16:30:55 +0100, Clive George wrote
(in article ):

"William Black" wrote in message
...

"Mary Fisher" wrote in message
t...

"Clive George" wrote in message
...

Type 2s may have to pay a prescription charge, and for their other
meds.
Annual prepayment would seem to cover that.

Most Type 2s are old enough to have zero cost for prescriptions.

Type 2s don't pay anyway, no diabetic does in the UK...

So, Andy, about those blood glucose testing strips then?

cheers,
clive


Well you might ask.

It should be possible for a T2 to test about 6-8 times a day in order to
correctly control BG levels with diet and exercise or the possible addition
of drug therapy.

This implies around 200 strips a month. At 50p a go, this is a significant
sum.

Hence they are rationed or unavailable on prescription, IME.

On Wed, 19 Jul 2006 15:24:07 +0100, Mary Fisher wrote
(in article ):


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...

- Herceptin for cancer patients

You've been reading the papers again.

Herceptin is a very specific drug which is used on certain patients who
might benefit in certain types of cancer. It's not a general cancer drug.
It's not even a general breast cancer drug.




I didn't say that it was, Mary, and I do have a specific and personal reason
for mentioning it which has nothing to do with the media.

I am fully aware of where it is indicated and not indicated.

On Wed, 19 Jul 2006 15:03:13 +0100, June Hughes wrote
(in article ):



Oh! So you fire people do you?

I have had to on occasions, June, and actually it is not something that I
enjoy doing in the least.

For NHS civil servant bureaucrats, I could make an exception.


Humph! You seem to have an awful lot
of time to spend spouting on Usenet. Put your money where your mouth is
and get out there with your campaign instead of posting here.


I already am.

On Wed, 19 Jul 2006 15:04:24 +0100, June Hughes wrote
(in article ):

In message , Andy Hall
writes
On Wed, 19 Jul 2006 08:22:20 +0100, June Hughes wrote
(in article ):

In message , Andy Hall
writes

Of course, until people in the UK realise that they are being suckered by
the
4th of the three big lies, it won't change.


Get yourself a couple of sandwich boards and parade up and down Oxford
Street spreading the word. That may achieve something. Of course, it
is easier just to sit on your backside at your computer and spout on
Usenet but you could be far more effective than that, couldn't you?


That's the old technology way of doing things....

Actually, I seldom sit on my backside in front of my computer. Normally it
is sitting on my knees and I am travelling around.


Ah! So you are a travelling salesman, are you?

Oh no. I never sell anything.

I would have thought
you would have something better to do with your time on the train,
plane, bus or whatever you travel on.


All of those. Actually I can't think of a more important thing than
healthcare to get right - can you?

The message
from "Mary Fisher" contains these words:

Indeed. Perhaps they'd consulted YKW.

Ye Kremlin Worker?

--
Skipweasel
Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.

On Wed, 19 Jul 2006 18:58:17 +0100, Andy Hall
wrote:

On Wed, 19 Jul 2006 09:31:32 +0100, Mary Fisher wrote
(in article ):


"June Hughes" wrote in message
...
In message , Andy Hall
writes

Of course, until people in the UK realise that they are being suckered by
the
4th of the three big lies, it won't change.


Get yourself a couple of sandwich boards and parade up and down Oxford
Street spreading the word. That may achieve something. Of course, it is
easier just to sit on your backside at your computer and spout on Usenet
but you could be far more effective than that, couldn't you?
--
June Hughes


Oh, June, that's not fair! I don't think you realise that this chap isn't
lazing about at home at his pc, he's jetting all round the world with his
laptop, being very busy. Probably solving other, even worse, problems!


It would be hard to find one worse than the NHS, Mary.

In one sense you are right though. I do spend a lot of time solving
difficult problems and have done for many years. Flying around is hardly an
exciting prospect any longer when one is visiting four cities in different
countries in a week, out of the airport, visit the customer and back to the
airport - i.e. there is no excitement in the travel aspect.

However, in working with customers for several decades, (and others say
successfully), I have learnt and use several fundamental principles:

- Always try to do what you say you are going to do, and be prepared to move
heaven and earth if necessary to achieve that.

- If that is prevented by circumstances that were impossible to foresee, make
sure that the customer knows as far ahead of time as possible so that
alternative arrangements can be made. Then make sure that the customer is
overcompensated for the effects.

- Always tell customers the truth, even if it may not be convenient at the
time. It pays back with dividends.

- Involve and encourage customers to participate in solving issues. It
makes things run more smoothly and quickly and in the future they can help
themselves.

- Over achieve on promises and reasonable expectations. When this is done,
the unreasonable ones seldom happen.

- Deliver on the customer's expectation of or the agreed timescales.

- Always remember that the customer is paying for what he is getting and is
entitled to expect to receive that.


The result of doing these things is success for both the supplying
organisation and the customer.

It isn't difficult, and my experience is of having customers that I have
worked with through multiple career/company changes (theirs and mine) and
achieving a level of trust that they can safely and effectively work with me.

Of course this relates to the commercial world, but almost all the principles
can be applied to any situation.

It does mean that when I am a customer, I expect the same standards from
organisations from which I buy goods and services. This does not mean that I
am looking for something for nothing or for something for which I am not
willing to pay.

I select a supplier based on my own research and on what he says he will do.
However, I do expect that he will deliver on his promises both in terms of
content and in the agreed timescale. That has been part of selection
criteria.

If he over-delivers that's nice but I don't expect it.

More often than not it all works out and what was agreed happens when it is
supposed to happen.

Occasionally there is a problem and the supplier takes the trouble to tell me
and a fix is agreed. I'm usually perfectly happy with that because if a
supplier can demonstrate to me that he can fix a problem if it occurs it
gives me confidence that he will be able to do that in the future and that my
business is well placed.

However, if something goes wrong and the supplier is either apathetic or
worse still lies to me or tries to evade responsibility, I think that it's
entirely reasonable to expect and insist that they resolve the issue or
refund my money with compensation. Obviously one has to include a factor
of reasonableness in terms of what can be expected for the price paid -
however, I always factor those issues into the original decision.

All of this relates to normal commercial and consumer transactions, which
although important in themselves, are not very significant in the global
scheme of things and certainly not in comparison with healthcare, which is
the most important purchase that people make - however they do it.


Now.... when I map these principles and philosophies to the way that the NHS
operates and my experiences of it, to say that I am a disappointed customer
would be a gross understatement.

I think that it would be reasonable to expect that it should deliver on most
if not all of the principles of customer service that I outlined above. I
have difficulty in finding a single one where it does to any acceptable
degree if at all.

I have the ability to fund my own healthcare either through insurance or if
necessary out of pocket, so one might ask why I care about it.
I could even justifiably complain that I shouldn't need to do this out of
already taxed income.
Moreover, I could even argue, and on occasions have done, that I should be
able to opt myself out of the state system.

However, I would not go so far as to say that people should fend totally for
themselves if they are unable to do so. That is not correct and reasonable
in a civilised first world country. I would prefer to pay less in taxes
but consider it reasonable to contribute towards the healthcare of those
genuinely unable to do so for themselves whether it be partially or
completely.

I therefore consider myself a customer of the government in terms of its
responsibility to fund healthcare for those unable to do so for themselves -
I am paying them to do a job, even though it may largely be for the benefit
of others.

Successive governments, for half a century have manifestly failed to live up
to their responsibilities in this area through the medium of the NHS. If
it were possible to fix it, one would think that that would have been done by
now. We have seen the effect in the British car industry of what happens
when one attempts to maintain the untenable.

If the NHS was actually ever going to work, it would have done so by now.
Instead it lives by growing ever larger, increased wastage, worsening
standards and spending money on marketing to try to convince its customers
that it's doing a good job.

I am angered and at the same time saddened by the whole thing because
healthcare does not have to operate in this way, and it is not necessary
either to move to a non-state-funded environment.

I would like to see my money being spent properly and see no prospect of that
happening all the time that the state remains involved in the delivery of
healthcare.

All of this leads me to the inevitable and much considered conclusion, that
the only way forward is to close the charade that the NHS has become.


Excellent post, can't top that.

So here follows an anecdote, it refers to the Leeds General Infirmary
Ca. 2,000.


Took my late mum into out patients for a 2pm appointment. We arrived
at 1-45 to be early, noticed the waiting room was full with about 20
patients waiting. Went up to the desk and announced ourselves, "You're
in the wrong clinic was the reply. ?? This is the right room I
protested! "Yebbut this is *this mornings* clinic".


After half an hour or so I discerned a distinct lack of any medical
activity. Apparently the doctor had disappeared at around 11-45 am,
and nobody could find him. at 2-40 a big Irishman stood up and shouted
"Well when is he coming then, I've been here since half past eight and
I've got to pick my daughter up at school in 30 minutes", he stormed
out.

A bit later on a new secretary, the secretary for my mother's clinic
arrived pushing a supermarket trolley packed full to overflowing with
patients notes in open cardboard folders. The contents were spilling
out in all directions.
....

25% of all X-rays in the NHS are "Lost" leading to patients getting a
second dose of ionising radiation. Now I know why.

ends

Oddly enough we are suppliers to the health service. They demand that
*we* operate an ISO 9,000 quality assurance system, audited by an
external body. So they do know what is required. However they will not
submit to similar disciplines themselves, fat chance. They prefer
the 40 appointments for one doctor all at 08-30 approach. The idea
that patient's files should be treated in such a cavalier manor
beggars belief. If they had a quality system all these policies would
have to be documented and they could then be compared with the
policies of other competing providers and challenged.

DG

In message , Andy Hall
writes
On Wed, 19 Jul 2006 15:22:21 +0100, Mary Fisher wrote
(in article ):


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...

Until the mentality moves away from using band Aids to cure cancer, there
is
no point in spending the effort on it.

It's a strange mentality which thinks there's a cure for cancer.

My cancer was treated successfully (no-one can claim a cure with authority
and a guarantee), several years ago. I've survived. A Band-Aid never went
anywhere near me.

I doubt that a Band-Aid will go anywhere near Spouse during his cancer
treatment.

You've shown that there's something else you don't know about.



Mary, you know full well that the statement was a figurative one to emphasise
a point, which is simply that there is no point in tinkering around at the
edges of a major issue which cannot be addressed by the methods being
employed.

For someone who puts on the air of a successful businessman, you didn't
make a very good point then, did you?
--
June Hughes

In message , Andy Hall
writes
On Wed, 19 Jul 2006 14:00:15 +0100, June Hughes wrote
(in article ):

In message , Andy Hall
writes
On Wed, 19 Jul 2006 08:12:18 +0100, June Hughes wrote
(in article ):


Why not just get on and do something about it if you feel so strongly,
instead of winding up everyone here? Perhaps then, we will end up with
a better NHS and you will be a hero of the people.


If I were to do it, we wouldn't have an NHS. Unfortunately, contrary to
their own best interests, most people seem wedded to the idea that this is
the only way to deliver healthcare in a civilised society and are willing to
accept third rate service because they think it's free.

That is a load of old bull****, as I suspect you know.

How would you describe it? Do you find what they offer 100% acceptable?

No I don't find it 100% acceptable and never said I did but I wouldn't
start airing my views here, in a most inappropriate place. I certainly
wouldn't start referring to the ideas of 'most people' unless I could
prove that that is the case. The only people who think the NHS is free
are those who are out of work, either by choice or necessity, and
freeloaders.
--
June Hughes

In message , Andy Hall
writes
On Wed, 19 Jul 2006 15:03:13 +0100, June Hughes wrote
(in article ):



Oh! So you fire people do you?

I have had to on occasions, June, and actually it is not something that I
enjoy doing in the least.

For NHS civil servant bureaucrats, I could make an exception.


Humph! You seem to have an awful lot
of time to spend spouting on Usenet. Put your money where your mouth is
and get out there with your campaign instead of posting here.


I already am.

Good. I hope you find a more suitable soap-box than these two
newsgroups. If not, your money will be wasted.
--
June Hughes

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 19 Jul 2006 15:22:21 +0100, Mary Fisher wrote
(in article ):


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...

Until the mentality moves away from using band Aids to cure cancer,
there
is
no point in spending the effort on it.

It's a strange mentality which thinks there's a cure for cancer.

My cancer was treated successfully (no-one can claim a cure with
authority
and a guarantee), several years ago. I've survived. A Band-Aid never went
anywhere near me.

I doubt that a Band-Aid will go anywhere near Spouse during his cancer
treatment.

You've shown that there's something else you don't know about.



Mary, you know full well that the statement was a figurative one to
emphasise
a point,

So I'm supposed to know whether what you say is fact and what is figurative?

In message , Andy Hall
writes
On Wed, 19 Jul 2006 09:31:32 +0100, Mary Fisher wrote
(in article ):



Oh, June, that's not fair! I don't think you realise that this chap isn't
lazing about at home at his pc, he's jetting all round the world with his
laptop, being very busy. Probably solving other, even worse, problems!


It would be hard to find one worse than the NHS, Mary.

Snip almost three screens of typing. There is a norm on Usenet of
around one screen, so that people do not have to scroll down.

All of this leads me to the inevitable and much considered conclusion, that
the only way forward is to close the charade that the NHS has become.


I am glad you think so and hope you kept your post for a more fitting
audience.
--
June Hughes

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...


It should be possible for a T2 to test about 6-8 times a day in order to
correctly control BG levels with diet and exercise or the possible
addition
of drug therapy.

You don't need as many as that.

This implies around 200 strips a month. At 50p a go, this is a
significant
sum.

Hence they are rationed or unavailable on prescription, IME.

They are not.

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 19 Jul 2006 14:51:24 +0100, Clive George wrote
(in article ):

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...

It isn't exception cases.

I'll give you four simple examples.
..
- Blood glucose test strips for diabetics.
..
There are clinical justifications for all of these things and lack of
prompt
treatment and use can be life threatening.

However, they are not freely and prompt;y available through the NHS.
Either
there are long delays or they are not available at all. Either way the
patient pays if they don't have private insurance or goes without.

IME freely and promptly available. I've never had a problem getting
them -
and I test quite a lot.

You are fortunate. The experience of others is not the same. I have
seen
both rationing and refusal.


Type 2s may have to pay a prescription charge, and for their other meds.
Annual prepayment would seem to cover that.

The service is supposed to be free at the point of delivery.....

and it is.